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Chamber and committees

Plenary, 25 Nov 2004

Meeting date: Thursday, November 25, 2004


Contents


Question Time


SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE


Enterprise, Lifelong Learning and Transport


Freight (Transfer from Road to Rail)

To ask the Scottish Executive what action it is taking to encourage the transfer of more freight from road to rail. (S2O-4211)

A total of 20 awards of freight facilities grant have been made to rail projects in Scotland since July 1999. Those awards of grant total more than £37 million and will remove 18 million lorry miles from Scotland's roads each year.

Dr Jackson:

The minister knows that I am a supporter of rail freight. There is a continuing issue in Crianlarich, however, where timber wagons are being shunted at 2 o'clock or 3 o'clock in the morning. Can the minister outline further how a Scottish strategy for rail freight is being developed? In particular, how are infrastructure changes to be assessed? Could the minister say a little more about the grant that he mentioned? How can the finance be accessed so that concerns in communities such as Crianlarich can be addressed?

Nicol Stephen:

Sylvia Jackson knows my concern about the issue, because I recently met her and representatives of English Welsh & Scottish Railway Ltd and Network Rail to discuss the problem. All of us want to encourage more freight being transported on our rail system and by water in order to take the pressure off roads and reduce congestion. That means making some difficult choices. It is difficult to access the main rail network, particularly the single-track rail lines in the Highlands, during the day when passenger services use the lines. In assessing such applications, our priority is to promote freight by rail and to expand the use of rail freight.

We must, of course, also consider the interests of local communities. I welcome the decision of EWS and Network Rail to inform the local community better about issues in respect of movement of rail freight at Crianlarich, and to do what they can to maintain their timetable there.

Alasdair Morgan (South of Scotland) (SNP):

Does the minister agree that the rail companies should not be subject to undue criticism, given that the alternative—transport by lorry—would be subject to no control at all, at any time of day or night? Is the minister aware that many businesses contact MSPs with good cases for using existing rail sidings, or for moving timber and other merchandise by rail from locations that are very close to existing rail lines? Those businesses find it very difficult to get rail freight companies—in Scotland, that is usually EWS—to take any interest in their propositions.

Nicol Stephen:

If Alasdair Morgan has specific examples, I will be interested to hear about them and to learn more about businesses' difficulties. The Scottish Executive is anxious to promote schemes that involve rail freight and we are putting millions of pounds into freight facilities grant projects. Track access grant is also available for rail schemes.

I agree very much that we must encourage businesses to transport more freight on our railways and by sea. Through the Executive and the funding schemes, we have the capability to support that, but if there are blockages, I want to know about them. I would be grateful if Alasdair Morgan could write to me on the matter that he raises.

More than 5,000 lorry journeys per year have been taken off the road in the Crianlarich area as a result of the rail freight scheme.

Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):

The minister will be aware that Safeway Stores Ltd uses the freight facilities grant to move goods to the north of Scotland. Safeway has been bought by Wm Morrison Supermarkets plc, which is selling on the smaller Safeway stores in the north to Somerfield plc. Has the minister had any discussions with Morrison or Somerfield about continuation of the use of rail freight facilities, which has enabled lorries to be taken off the roads in the north of Scotland, with goods being shipped by rail instead?

Nicol Stephen:

No, I have not had any such direct discussions. If there was a threat to those services, I would be pleased to become involved.

The trend among all the larger superstores and companies—such as Safeway, Tesco plc and Asda Ltd—has been to move towards taking their goods to their stores around Scotland by rail where they can; we have given support grants to encourage such schemes. I do not want us to move backwards in relation to any company. At the end of the day, we are clearly talking about commercial decisions, but I hope that we can grow rail freight and encourage more superstores and other companies to send their freight by rail over the coming years in Scotland.

Mr John Swinney (North Tayside) (SNP):

I cite Rannoch Station in my constituency as an example of where there could be ministerial intervention to encourage getting more freight off the roads and on to railways. Forest Enterprise Scotland has worked extremely hard under difficult circumstances to try to engage rail companies in removing from road transport similar quantities of timber to those that have been removed around Crianlarich. The community would breathe a sigh of relief if the lorry loads were to be removed from the roads in the Rannoch area. Will the minister intervene in that case and try to speed up the endlessly long process in order to achieve the desirable objective?

Nicol Stephen:

I emphasise that it frustrates me, too, when I hear about long delays. If there is a solid proposal to move freight from lorries to rail, it should be speeded along and supported in every possible way. If John Swinney writes to me with more details on the matter, I will be happy to look further into it.


Campbeltown to Ballycastle Ferry

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will provide an update on progress being made on the Campbeltown to Ballycastle ferry. (S2O-4185)

The Minister for Transport (Nicol Stephen):

On 7 September, I met representatives of the Dalriada Business Action Group, which has been leading that important project locally. That meeting allowed us to make significant progress with our proposals, and we are now consulting the Northern Ireland Office before we make an announcement on the proposed ferry service. That announcement will be made in due course.

George Lyon:

I thank the minister for that update.

The community in Campbeltown has expressed to me its concern that there is resistance in the Northern Ireland Office to the proposal. Will the minister clarify whether that has been his experience in his discussions with the Northern Ireland Office?

Nicol Stephen:

I have received no response from the Northern Ireland Office on the proposal that has been put to it. The Northern Ireland Office was clearly an important partner in relation to the previous tender. It was intended that the split in annual support would be around £700,000 from the Scottish Executive and £300,000 from the Northern Ireland Office, so the NIO has clearly been a significant and important partner in the project. I would like things to remain that way, and we await its response.

Does the minister agree that it seems to be the Ballycastle end that continually holds the project up? If the proposal falls through, will the minister consider a link from Campbeltown to another port in Northern Ireland, such as Larne?

Nicol Stephen:

Jamie McGrigor is being unfair, as the Ballycastle end has been very supportive of the proposal. I have received representations from elected representatives in Ballycastle—indeed, they have attended meetings in Campbeltown—that clearly indicate their strong support for the initiative. I want to proceed in partnership with the Campbeltown community and Northern Ireland, which is an important partner in the project.

Jim Mather (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):

I am saddened about the lack of response from the Northern Ireland Office. What specific steps will now be taken to encourage the active and supportive participation of politicians and administrators in Northern Ireland in such a crucial project?

Nicol Stephen:

As I have already said, I am certain that there is in Northern Ireland strong cross-party support for the proposal, and the strongest support of all is in the Campbeltown area. I do not think that anybody should read too much into what I have said about the Northern Ireland Office's position. The meeting that I mentioned was in September. Since then, the Scottish Executive has had work to do to ensure that the proposal that has been put to us by the Dalriada Business Action Group can be delivered. Subsequent to that, we have been in contact with the Northern Ireland Office, and I have no doubt that it will get back to us soon. I want to maintain the momentum. It is some time since the previous tendering process failed to proceed, so it is important that we keep the project alive, if that is at all possible.


Economic Growth

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will set a target for economic growth for Scotland. (S2O-4203)

The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Mr Jim Wallace):

The Executive is committed to working with the United Kingdom Government and to using the powers of the Scottish Parliament to create the conditions for a higher level of economic growth in Scotland. However, the outcome depends on the actions of the private sector, the business cycle, conditions in the global economy and other factors, which makes an explicit gross domestic product target inappropriate to guide Executive policy.

Nevertheless, we have a responsibility to create the conditions that will enable the economy to grow in terms of infrastructure, business support, skills, education and so on. That will pay off in the longer term and we have set targets for specific improvements in those areas.

Murdo Fraser:

I appreciate that there are other factors in play, but I cannot understand why it would not be possible to set a target relative to GDP growth in the rest of the UK. It is rather bizarre that, although the Executive seems to have targets for everything else under the sun, it refuses to set a target for what it calls its number 1 priority. Is it too cynical to suggest that the reason why it will not set a target is that it is afraid that it will not meet that target, which would expose the failures at the heart of the Executive's economic policy?

Mr Wallace:

That suggestion is too cynical. Murdo Fraser accepts that a number of factors that have a direct bearing on growth are totally outwith the powers of the Scottish Executive.

It is important to bear it in mind that the seasonally adjusted Scottish GDP rose by 1.8 per cent over the year to the second quarter of this year and by 0.9 per cent in the second quarter of 2004. We take growth forecasts from independent forecasters such as the Fraser of Allander institute, Cambridge Econometrics Ltd and Experian Business Strategies Ltd, each of which has produced projections for growth in 2004 and 2005 that are above the long-run average growth. That is encouraging. We sometimes do not acknowledge the good growth figures that we have or the upturn in confidence that has been reported in many business reports and surveys.

Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):

The minister will be aware that the Scottish Borders region has the lowest wages in Scotland. What policies does he have in hand to increase economic growth in the Scottish Borders? Does he think that restoration of the Borders railway line is key to the restoration of economic growth in that area?

Mr Wallace:

The position that we have taken on that railway line is well known and Christine Grahame knows that I have expressed my views on its importance on many occasions.

A range of policies are set out in the refreshed "A Smart, Successful Scotland: Strategic direction to the Enterprise Networks and an enterprise strategy for Scotland", which I published two weeks ago, that will ensure the development of skills that are relevant to the Borders. Through Scottish Enterprise Borders and the business gateway, there is also a range of support for companies that wish to develop in the Borders. I am encouraged specifically by meetings that I had earlier in the year with people who are engaged in the textiles industry which—as Christine Grahame knows—is of considerable importance to the Borders. The amount of work that is being done through Scottish Enterprise and Scottish Enterprise Borders to lend support to the textiles industry is also important.


Contemporary Music

To ask the Scottish Executive what the value is to the economy of contemporary music. (S2O-4272)

I call Jim Wallace—I beg your pardon. I have Jim Wallace in my script, but I will have Allan Wilson.

My knowledge of contemporary music is well known, Presiding Officer.

It is better than mine.

Allan Wilson:

That is arguable.

That information is neither routinely collated nor centrally compiled. However, the 2003 Scottish Enterprise report, "Mapping the music industry in Scotland", suggests that the sector is worth more than £100 million in annual sales and music services.

Pauline McNeill:

According to DF Concerts Ltd, the Performing Right Society Ltd and the Concert Promoters Association Ltd, contemporary music ticket sales generate £40.7 million in Scotland. As the minister may be aware, Scotland spends more per head on live music tickets than the UK average. This year, we sent 15 bands to the South by Southwest showcase, which was headlined by Franz Ferdinand. He may also know that, in UK terms, music is our third largest export—a fact that is not well known.

Does the minister agree and acknowledge that the music industry is in its own right a key sector of our economy and that it has the potential to add value to other sectors of the economy? Will he ensure that our enterprise agencies give due priority and support to that key sector?

Allan Wilson:

I am happy to agree with that proposition and I will share a few other interesting statistics about the music industry. It is made up of 2,000 full-time employees and 2,000 part-time workers. Consumer spending totals £331 million and total public investment is £17.9 million, for a prospective industry income of £106 million. Those figures demonstrate clearly that it is a very significant sector of the Scottish economy, which is why we have strategies in place for the creative industries, of which the music sector is an important part. Scottish Arts Council spending next year will be a record £25 million, so that we can exploit the industry and the economic benefit that flows from it.

Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):

Recent figures from Shetland show that music and musicians bring in £6 million to the Shetland economy. In Shetland the music industry is bigger than the knitwear industry, which means that it is big in Shetland terms. Will the minister consider providing a breakdown of the contemporary music industry into its parts, in particular traditional music, to give us a regular idea of what traditional music contributes to the economy so that we can promote it even better?

Allan Wilson:

I am happy to agree to that request. When I was studying the statistics in forming a response to Pauline McNeill's question, I was struck by the fact that the traditional sector is worth as much as income from, for example, Franz Ferdinand, the successful Scottish band to which Pauline McNeill referred. As the member knows, I am a great supporter of the traditional music sector, so I would be happy to examine the contribution that it makes to the wider Scottish economy.

Question 5 has been withdrawn.


Edinburgh South Suburban Railway

To ask the Scottish Executive what discussions it has had with the City of Edinburgh Council regarding the reopening of the Edinburgh south suburban railway. (S2O-4176)

No formal discussions have been held recently with the City of Edinburgh Council regarding the reopening of the Edinburgh south suburban railway.

Mike Pringle:

After years of Liberal Democrat pressure, the City of Edinburgh Council has agreed to try to secure funding for a suburban commuter railway in my constituency. Will the minister give the assurance today that he will meet the council and give careful consideration to its request for help with funding to develop the scheme, given the benefit that the line will bring to the people of my constituency of Edinburgh South and many other residents throughout Edinburgh?

Nicol Stephen:

These are issues for the City of Edinburgh Council to progress in the first instance. I know that the council has received a study and that it has not yet requested a meeting with the Executive, whose transport officials would be very willing to meet the council to discuss that and any other quality public transport projects in Edinburgh. As members know, we are already supporting a wide range of significant public transport projects in Edinburgh. We have a solid track record of support for the development of feasibility studies for public transport schemes throughout Scotland.

Sarah Boyack (Edinburgh Central) (Lab):

I thank the minister for making a positive commitment to work with the City of Edinburgh Council and I re-emphasise the points that Mike Pringle made.

Recently, the council approved the project to which Mike Pringle referred, which is supported by both Labour and the Liberal Democrats. We are all keen for this important but relatively small piece of transport infrastructure to be added to Edinburgh's suburban railway network. Anything that the minister can do to ensure that the council and the Scottish Executive take a partnership approach to the project would be hugely appreciated. In what areas might the Scottish Executive assist with the funding of this crucial but relatively modest transport proposal?

Nicol Stephen:

Perhaps better than any other MSP, Sarah Boyack knows the process that must be undergone to secure approval for a project of this kind. An initial feasibility study has been carried out. If that is positive and the project has the support of the City of Edinburgh Council, I expect that there will be a further stage or stages to the work before commissioning of the project can go ahead. The Executive can help in that area through, for example, Scottish transport appraisal guidance and the development of the detailed engineering work that is required for any project of this kind. We have a consistent record of supporting such initiatives where communities and councils support them.


Justice and Law Officers


New Roads and Street Works Act 1991

To ask the Scottish Executive how many reports have been made to procurators fiscal under the New Roads and Street Works Act 1991 and how many prosecutions have followed. (S2O-4240)

The Solicitor General for Scotland (Mrs Elish Angiolini):

In the past two financial years, 22 charges were reported, of which four were prosecuted. We do not hold information for prior to 2002.

David Mundell:

I thank the Solicitor General for Scotland for her response. Is she aware that local authorities in Scotland recently gave evidence to the Local Government and Transport Committee that suggested that procurators fiscal are not keen to prosecute offences under the 1991 act because they deem such prosecutions to be not in the public interest? Will she look into those claims? Does she agree that enhanced provisions in the Transport (Scotland) Bill are hardly likely to be effective if prosecutions do not follow from them?

Mrs Angiolini:

What David Mundell says surprises me; I will certainly look into the suggestion that prosecutors are reluctant to prosecute, as I have met few prosecutors of that disposition. The reality is that the subject is certainly not the most specific area of prosecutorial activity. It is relevant that the Transport (Scotland) Bill will contain provisions that will make enforcement much more feasible in the sense that it will introduce fixed penalties and accelerate the process as well as introduce enhanced penalties that will reflect the seriousness of offences at the more serious end of the scale.


Domestic Abuse (LGBT Young People)

To ask the Scottish Executive how the criminal justice system protects lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender young people from being victims of abuse within domestic settings. (S2O-4291)

The Deputy Minister for Justice (Hugh Henry):

The criminal justice system extends the same protection against abuse to lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender young people as it does to all young people. The Executive is committed to a three-year child protection reform programme to help ensure that all children and young people get the help they need when they need it.

Mark Ballard:

I thank the minister for that answer. Many LGBT young people in Scotland become trapped in a cycle of violence and intimidation in domestic settings after they come out as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender. Will the minister ensure that all police are adequately trained to refer LGBT young people to local support groups, where that is in their best interests? Sufficient referral to such local support groups is the best way for LGBT young men and women to get access to help and support.

Hugh Henry:

The question of training is a matter for the police themselves and for chief constables. However, I know that the police take seriously the legislation that Parliament has passed and the policy intentions that it has articulated. I also know, from discussions with the police, that they are committed to training on a range of issues, including equal opportunity issues, and to ensuring that people are not discriminated against because of personal matters such as sexuality, religion, culture, race and so on. It is to the credit of the police that they also do training now on issues such as how to cope with problems from people who have Alzheimer's disease.

We will encourage the police to give due attention to the problem that Mark Ballard highlights, but how training is implemented at local level remains a matter for chief constables.


Disclosure Scotland

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it is satisfied with the performance of Disclosure Scotland. (S2O-4177)

The Minister for Justice (Cathy Jamieson):

At the week ending 21 November, Disclosure Scotland processed 99 per cent of standard and enhanced applications in an average of 3.5 days. At that same date, 100 per cent of basic applications were issued in an average of 3 days. When the handling time of the registered bodies is taken into account, the average time taken, as at 21 November, from applicant signature to posting for the higher-level certificates, was 33 days. Disclosure Scotland's performance has improved considerably and it is taking action to alert registered bodies of the need to deal with their part of the process as timeously as possible.

Mike Pringle:

It has been brought to my attention that, although the headline figures for Disclosure Scotland are quite good and the organisation is meeting its target in that regard, many applications are not being processed because they are rejected before they enter the system. When the applications are sent into the agency in Perth, some are returned, with the inevitable result that there is a considerable delay. Will the minister agree to examine the design of the form to prevent what is in my view an unnecessary extension of the time that elapses between the posting of an application and its being received and officially entering the system?

Cathy Jamieson:

There are two important issues. The first is that we ensure that the voluntary organisations that send applications through the central registered body in Scotland recognise that they have to get them in as quickly as possible. We acknowledge that there have been some problems with that and additional funding has been provided to ensure that that part of the process can be speeded up.

However, it is important that the forms are completed correctly and that erroneous or incomplete information is not supplied. Given that we are talking about the protection of young people, we must ensure that we get the correct information. I have received some complaints about the fact that forms have been returned because they had been completed in the wrong colour ink. I have asked people to investigate whether technology could deal with that and have instigated an examination of the form to ensure that it is easy to understand and as easy as possible to complete.

Dennis Canavan (Falkirk West) (Ind):

Does the minister recall recent correspondence from me on behalf of the area commissioner of Forth valley scouts, who is very supportive of the principles of the legislation that established Disclosure Scotland, but who is nevertheless very concerned about certain matters, including the impact on volunteer recruitment of a complete ban on service prior to receipt of a disclosure? If the matter is simply about bureaucratic delay, will the minister consider the possibility of allowing service under strict supervision until such time as a disclosure is received?

Cathy Jamieson:

I always remember correspondence from the member; he frequently reminds me if I do not respond in time. The point that Dennis Canavan makes has been made by a number of other members. It is important to recognise why we have disclosure. Disclosure is not about replacing the recruitment and training processes and the supervision that take place in paid-employment situations or in the voluntary sector; it is a part of that process. There have been situations in the voluntary sector and in paid-employment situations whereby people have been able to continue to work, but on a supervised basis. That matter was discussed at a recent meeting of the Parliament's Education Committee, when people expressed concerns about the situation.

We will have to examine Sir Michael Bichard's report, as it could have further implications. I want to speed up the process and ensure that we do not have unnecessary bureaucracy but, at the end of the day, it may well be worth while to take one or two days longer to get things right to protect children.

Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con):

Does the minister agree that the welfare of children is all-important and that part of the task of ensuring their welfare is to promote their health through participation in safe sports and other activities? Dennis Canavan has just chaired a meeting of the cross-party group in the Scottish Parliament on sports, at which the Scottish Youth Football Association gave us figures that showed that 40,000 young people play football in Scotland and 10,000 volunteers give them support. Does she acknowledge the magnitude of the problem that disclosure presents to such organisations?

Cathy Jamieson:

It is rare that I agree with Phil Gallie, but on this occasion I agree with him about the valuable role that such organisations play. I know that not just in Ayrshire but throughout Scotland a huge number of volunteers are involved in a range of activities that involve young people. I acknowledge that many volunteers are involved in helping with footballing activities. However, we must remember that, although the vast majority of those volunteers would never dream of harming children, it is sadly the case that there have been serious cases in which children have been abused through the involvement in such activities of volunteers and paid officials.

I stress again that I want a system that is not overly bureaucratic, but which gives the best protection to our children. I am more than happy to try to work with the voluntary organisations to ensure that that is what we achieve.

Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab):

I am sure that everyone in the chamber would agree that we want a disclosure process that ensures the greatest protection of our young people. I am sure that the minister also agrees that many pieces of what could be called misinformation have been going around lately about the disclosure process and the time that it can take to go through it. The information that the minister shared this afternoon throws some light on the situation.

Although Dennis Canavan raised a serious point about the fact that bureaucracy might be putting off people from volunteering, I do not agree with it.

Can we have a question, please?

Cathie Craigie:

Will the minister commission research on the subject? That would show whether volunteers are being put off in the way that Dennis Canavan described or confirm the findings of Volunteer Development Scotland that 86 per cent of people are not put off by the disclosure process.

Cathy Jamieson:

I do not want to stray into matters that do not fall within the direct remit of my portfolio. The ministers who have responsibility for justice work closely with the ministers whose communities portfolio responsibility includes the main responsibility for dealing with matters in the voluntary sector. I will raise the issue with them.


Fire Control Rooms (Consultation)

To ask the Scottish Executive how it will respond to the consultation on fire control rooms in Scotland. (S2O-4248)

The Deputy Minister for Justice (Hugh Henry):

We received 20 formal responses to the consultation on the control rooms report. Our intention is to do further work to address the issues that were raised in the responses. We will discuss with stakeholders the outcome of that work when it has been completed and before any final decisions are taken.

Maureen Macmillan:

I am glad that the minister will take a more in-depth look at the situation. He is aware of the concerns that I have expressed to him about the future of the control room in Inverness. Can he give some kind of timescale for the new part of the consultation? I am sure that he appreciates how damaging the uncertainty is for control room staff.

Hugh Henry:

I appreciate the concerns that Maureen Macmillan has expressed about the uncertainty. I recognise that it is in everyone's best interests to know what is intended for the future. However, during the consultation that we have undertaken to date, some complex and specific issues were raised, one of which was the questioning of the financial basis on which the calculations were made in the consultants' report. I have given a commitment that we will re-examine the figures. I intend to return to first principles and ensure that all the figures are accurate.

A number of members have raised specific questions on the issue of locality and the fact that local knowledge is imperative. During the debate on the Fire (Scotland) Bill last week, some very different examples were raised, one of which was the fact that, although the Highlands and Islands covers an area the size of Wales, no locality issues seem to be involved—people can understand each other across the area. Other members raised issues with regard to the central belt and the north-east of Scotland. We intend to go back and look carefully at the issues. The only assurance that I can give Maureen Macmillan is that we will do that work thoroughly. We will take as long as necessary to ensure that we have examined every aspect of the argument.


Vulnerable Witnesses (Scotland) Act 2004

To ask the Scottish Executive how it is monitoring the changes resulting from the Vulnerable Witnesses (Scotland) Act 2004. (S2O-4282)

The Deputy Minister for Justice (Hugh Henry):

The Vulnerable Witnesses (Scotland) Act 2004 will be implemented in phases. The first phase will start from April 2005, when measures assisting child witnesses in High Court, sheriff court solemn cases and children's hearings court procedures will be commenced. The Scottish Executive will establish a monitoring and evaluation system before then to track how well the act is working once it has been implemented.

Eleanor Scott:

The minister is aware that there is genuine concern that very little may change for child witnesses, despite the passage of the act. This week it was reported that problems arose for child witnesses in a High Court case. What specific measures are being taken to change the culture of those in the legal system with regard to the use of child witnesses? Will the minister commit to reporting annually to the Parliament, giving detailed information on the effectiveness of the act, including an analysis of cases that involve child witnesses?

Hugh Henry:

I hesitate to go into the details of the case that the member mentions. My understanding of that case is not quite the same as was expressed. Nevertheless, I will examine the matter.

We have said that we will look at implementation in stages. We know that there is a need to have adequate training and that the various partners that are involved in the process are committed to that. I have been impressed by the enthusiasm and dedication that have been shown. People want to make the act work. It is inevitable that there will be problems in any new system, but they will not occur for the want of trying or commitment.

We will certainly learn from any mistakes that are made. If people identify problems as the act starts to come into force, they should by all means come back to the Executive. Information on how well the act is working will be made available by the usual processes. I have no doubt that the committees of the Parliament will keep an eye on the matter and on other pieces of legislation that are implemented to ensure that they have the desired effect. Frankly, there is no point in passing legislation if we do not examine its effect. I am sure that members will do that in due course through the committees of the Parliament.


Young People (Drug and Alcohol Abuse)

To ask the Scottish Executive what action it is taking to tackle drug and alcohol abuse by young people. (S2O-4267)

The Minister for Justice (Cathy Jamieson):

Drug and alcohol misuse can have a devastating effect on the lives of young people. It damages health, it puts immense pressure on family relationships and it can cause major problems for communities. That is why the Executive is working with partners throughout Scotland to tackle the problem. Our approach is based on preventing young people from becoming involved in drug and alcohol misuse in the first place, but ensuring that we have appropriate programmes in place when they do.

Jeremy Purvis:

I hope that the minister will join me in commending one of those programmes in my constituency: the Reiver project in Galashiels, which receives referrals from public agencies to support young people with alcohol abuse problems. Regrettably, the referrals have included people as young as eight in the past year. Will the minister ensure that projects such as that one, which works very well with Lothian and Borders police and Scottish Borders Council in a fully integrated alcohol abuse programme, can draw down money from the drug and alcohol action teams to ensure that the problem is addressed at a younger age? In the long term, that would mean that there would be reduced calls for expenditure on adult alcohol abuse programmes.

Cathy Jamieson:

I am aware of the project to which the member refers, which is funded partly through Lloyds TSB. Some of the very good work that is being done by that project is exactly what we want to see being done elsewhere. Of course, as we talk about the ability to respond to local need, there are times when it is important that such decisions are taken locally. I will examine how the drug action teams spend their money, because I want to ensure that there are positive outcomes, but there is a case for decisions being made at a local level and I expect that to continue.

Richard Lochhead (North East Scotland) (SNP):

Does the minister accept that one way in which we could divert young people from substance misuse is to expand the provision of youth facilities throughout Scotland? Does she accept that in some communities, in particular rural communities, there are often no such facilities? Should not the Scottish Executive conduct an audit of youth facilities in Scotland?

Cathy Jamieson:

Richard Lochhead raises a number of issues. There are many positive projects throughout Scotland. I could list a range of projects that focus specifically on drug and alcohol misuse. There are very positive examples of projects in rural communities, the most successful of which are those that young people themselves are directly involved in.

Peter Peacock, in his role as Minister for Education and Young People, recently convened a meeting that I attended, along with the then Minister for Communities, at which we considered how to ensure that the whole agenda on youth work is taken forward.


General Questions


“ambitious, excellent schools”

To ask the Scottish Executive what discussions have taken place with teachers, head teachers and their trade unions regarding the implementation of "ambitious, excellent schools". (S2O-4251)

I have regular discussions with teachers, head teachers and teacher unions on education matters, and in the recent past they have related to our plans set out in "ambitious, excellent schools".

Mr McAveety:

I welcome the minister's answer. Does he agree that the developments are essential if we are to progress Scottish education? Further, does he agree that they would be utterly jeopardised by the Conservatives' reckless proposal to remove £600 million from the education budget over the next three years, which would ensure that we could not deliver on "ambitious, excellent schools"?

Peter Peacock:

First, I am glad to confirm that the Conservatives propose £600 million of cuts. Frank McAveety is right: there is a stark contrast in Scotland and in this chamber between the approach that the parties on this side of the chamber take to education—we plan to invest in our education services, to increase choice for our young people in schools, and to improve standards—and the policies of the Conservatives, which seek to do the opposite. The Conservatives want to promote choice between schools, which automatically means that there should be second-best schools in Scotland. We utterly reject that. They also wish to cut £600 million from the education budget, which would put in jeopardy all the progress that we are making and threaten the future of young people in Scotland.

Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP):

I see that we have another loyal Labour back bencher.

There is cross-party support for a number of measures in the programme, but the programme will rely on the professionalism, enthusiasm and good will of teachers if it is to be implemented successfully. Bearing in mind the fact that there is disquiet about the roll-out of the McCrone agreement by some local authorities, does the minister accept the constructive suggestion that we need to review the roll-out and implementation of McCrone if some of the measures in the programme are to be implemented successfully?

Peter Peacock:

The McCrone agreement has brought a huge number of benefits. We now have far better-paid teachers. In fact, we have just concluded another pay deal for the next four years, which will help to increase teachers' salaries and stabilise their earnings. We have far better induction processes than we had before and better processes for probationer teachers. We have chartered teachers in our schools. We have continuing professional development in a way that we never had before. That is real progress. Every target that we set for the implementation of the McCrone findings has been met, therefore there is no need for a fundamental review.

I accept completely that we require the good will of teachers towards our reform agenda. I have spent a lot of time this month talking to teachers and head teachers about the reform agenda, and it is receiving enthusiastic support. The clear difference between the approach that we are taking now and the approach that was taken in past years is that we seek to free up teachers and to remove burdens and restrictions on them to allow them to do their professional job. Teachers are welcoming that.

Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con):

I refute totally the minister's comments in response to the question. It has already been pointed out to the minister that the Conservatives are offering real devolution in education in Scotland—devolution that the minister supposedly supported. Does the minister agree that it is far better that money is directed at the point of contact, rather than by ministers and councillors at the centre, who do not always realise what is going on at local level and what the local education requirements are?

Peter Peacock:

While Phil Gallie argues that we should direct to head teachers money that we are going to spend, the Conservatives propose to cut the money that we propose to spend on head teachers. It is no use Phil Gallie or his colleagues shaking their heads and pretending that their commitment does not exist. Their party leader made the commitment to cut our spending on education by £600 million. Everybody in Scotland should be clear about that. There is a fundamental difference in approach. We want to invest in education; the Conservatives want to cut it.


Sustainable Development Education

My apologies for rising to a provocation this morning, Presiding Officer.

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it is satisfied with its progress in taking forward education for sustainable development in schools. (S2O-4285)

The Deputy Minister for Education and Young People (Euan Robson):

The sustainable development education liaison group, which meets quarterly, continues to make progress. One of the group's early tasks was the commissioning and publication of a baseline research study of the status and provision of sustainable development education in other parts of the United Kingdom. The research has now been completed and the report is being circulated to education authorities throughout Scotland—I am sure that I could make a copy available to Mr Harper. The group has recruited a development officer to make progress with its programme of work from January next year.

Robin Harper:

I am aware that that research has been completed and I would love to receive a copy. However, I am concerned that, despite a passing mention of sustainable development in the Minister for Education and Young People's foreword to the new curriculum framework document, there is no further mention of sustainable development in the substance of that document. Will the minister reassure members that the Executive's commitment to education on sustainable development will see its way into the heart of the new curriculum?

Euan Robson:

Yes. Part of our proposal is to free up the curriculum to introduce choice and, clearly, sustainable development education will form part of that. It is not possible to restate commitments time after time in documents, but there is no doubt that we see that as the future and that we look forward to the subject being included in the new three to 18 curriculum, which will be the first such curriculum in Scotland.


Contaminated Land<br />(European Court of Justice Ruling)

To ask the Scottish Executive when it expects to reach a conclusion on the implication of the Van de Walle case in relation to contaminated land. (S2O-4286)

While we are still considering the full implications of that case, our initial assessment is that it is unlikely to lead to major changes in waste management practice in Scotland.

Patrick Harvie:

I thank the minister for that answer, which echoes a written answer that I have received in saying that the implications are still under consideration.

In a letter to Semple Fraser solicitors, the Executive has acknowledged that the judgment means that land that is contaminated by waste is itself to be regarded as waste under the environmental regulations. However, the Executive goes on to dismiss the idea that that might alter its consideration of the environmental aspects of the report on the M74 northern extension, which we all anticipate. How can the minister say, on the one hand, that the implications are still being considered and, on the other hand, that the process that is known technically as encapsulation—or simply concreting over and building on top—remains an acceptable way in which to deal with contaminated land?

Lewis Macdonald:

If Mr Harvie had listened more closely to my initial answer, he would have heard that we are still considering the full implications, but that our initial assessment is that the judgment is unlikely to lead to major changes in waste management in Scotland. We have come to that conclusion because, in the main, the causes of pollution and land that is contaminated by pollution are treated together anyway—an oil spill cannot be separated from the ground on to which the oil has spilled. Therefore, although we are still considering the Van de Walle judgment, the principle that it appears to reinforce is one by which we already abide.

Does the minister agree that, given Mr Harvie's concern about contaminated land, he should welcome the proposed M74 northern extension, which in my constituency alone would result in the capping of a large number of contaminated land sites?

Janis Hughes makes a valid point. I hope that Patrick Harvie and the Green Party will support effective action to deal with contaminated land, rather than hope that we cannot afford to take such action.


Foster Care (Regulation and Inspection)

To ask the Scottish Executive which areas will be selected for the care commission pilot studies of the regulation and inspection of foster care. (S2O-4193)

That is an operational matter for the care commission. I understand that the commission is discussing the pilot inspections with providers and that the organisations that are to take part will be confirmed soon.

Mary Scanlon:

Given the recent debates on foster caring and the minister's commitment to an audit, how will the Executive work with the care commission to ensure that the information and experience that the commission gains in its regulation and inspection work are included in that audit?

Euan Robson:

We will work closely with the care commission on that. The pilot inspections will involve a mix of urban and rural authorities as well as voluntary organisations. The process will be incremental, because extra pilots will be added during the year. The results of the pilots will inform the operational processes for adoption and fostering services and we will take any lessons on board in the way that Mary Scanlon suggests.


Planning Guidelines<br />(Renewable Developments)

To ask the Scottish Executive how it will take forward its review of planning guidelines for renewable developments. (S2O-4270)

The Deputy Minister for Communities (Johann Lamont):

Independent research will be commissioned early next year to assess the effectiveness of existing planning policies. The recently established environmental advisory forum for renewable energy development and other stakeholders will be involved both in the research and in the subsequent policy review.

Christine May:

I know that, like me, the minister acknowledges that we need to strike a balance between the interests of communities and the interest of the economy. Renewables are important, particularly in my constituency, but many of the jobs that they will bring will come in the future.

I want to raise with the minister the particular issue of opencast mining, in which land will be used frequently to provide energy crops. The review of national planning policy guideline 16 appears to be based on a presumption against any further opencast development. Does the minister agree that it might be possible to find another way of addressing communities' very relevant concerns while protecting coal stocks?

Johann Lamont:

I do not know whether the member's question was a test on which of my NPPGs we were going to talk about. I hope that I do not fall at the first hurdle.

The forum for renewable energy development was established in response to NPPG 6, but the member is referring in particular to NPPG 16.

The minister knows her NPPGs.

Johann Lamont:

Yes, but I get a bit confused when I get to PANs.

Consultation on the revised opencast guidance will close on 3 December 2004 and finalised guidance will be issued in spring 2005.

The member will be aware that the review already recognises that the current guidance has provided a sound and robust framework that has significantly enhanced planning authorities' ability effectively to control the adverse impact of opencast coal development on local communities and the environment and that, of course, strikes the balance that the member refers to. Although there is some contention about the impact of NPPG 16, it is clear that the overall level of production in Scotland has not been affected by its introduction. Indeed, the level of production in 1998 was 6.2 million tonnes, whereas the level of production in 2002 was 7.1 million tonnes. In any case, the member can rest assured that the Scottish Executive is very much aware of the issues surrounding the matter and will report in the spring. We remain committed to understanding the environmental issues and the economic pressures on local communities.


Central Heating

To ask the Scottish Executive how it will accelerate the installation of free central heating systems for the most vulnerable people. (S2O-4268)

The Minister for Communities (Malcolm Chisholm):

We have accelerated the installation of free central heating systems for the most vulnerable people by extending this year's programme to include people over 80 years old who have partial or inefficient systems. We are considering how we might target most effectively the fuel poor in future programmes.

Jeremy Purvis:

I thank the minister for his reply, for extending the programme and for the consideration that he is giving to accelerating it in the future. However, winter is arguably upon us, and the most vulnerable older people will unfortunately have had to wait too long for the central heating programme to become relevant to them and to receive the benefits that many thousands of households have received as a result of this welcome policy. Will the minister give urgent consideration to the matter? Indeed, will the Executive consider using council direct labour organisations to install free central heating in the neediest households now to ensure that people receive those benefits and that DLOs draw down funding through the programme?

Malcolm Chisholm:

We are now mainly considering the new spending review period between 2006 and 2008, because the current programme has been established up until April 2006. Our commitment in that programme is to all older people and the social rented sector. As people will acknowledge, that represents the biggest ever investment in an energy programme and is targeted on the most vulnerable. Of course, we want to cut delays as much as possible; some delays are unavoidable, but I am sure that some can be dealt with. We will do everything that we can to ensure that the people who are entitled to free central heating installation get it as quickly as possible.

Mrs Margaret Ewing (Moray) (SNP):

As the minister knows, I welcome all those developments in the provision of central heating to the public. However, is he aware of any legal basis for landlords denying tenants the free installation programme, despite all the criteria having been met? Does the Executive keep a central record, perhaps along with others who are involved in the provision, of instances of landlords denying tenants central heating systems? What action does he believe the Executive can take to remedy the situation? Although we can name and shame the landlords, it seems to me that an element of feudal obstruction is involved. Does the Executive see a way forward?

Malcolm Chisholm:

I certainly understand Margaret Ewing's frustration. I am sure that naming and shaming landlords is one option, although I do not think that she would regard that as adequate. John Home Robertson, who, like Margaret Ewing, has a long-standing interest in the matter, asked a question about it, which I think that Johann Lamont answered yesterday, indicating that since 2001 seven people had been refused a central heating system by their landlord. I am sure that we all agree that that is seven too many. As the answer indicated, nothing can be done under the current legislation, but members will know that a housing bill is planned. We are considering the registration of private landlords and action has already been taken on some aspects of that under the Antisocial Behaviour etc (Scotland) Act 2004. We might be able to consider the matter in that context, if not in others. I thank Margaret Ewing and John Home Robertson for drawing it to our attention.

Dr Elaine Murray (Dumfries) (Lab):

Will the minister revisit the guidance that was issued to the Eaga Partnership regarding the replacement of obsolete central heating systems for the over-80s? Only last week an 84-year-old constituent of mine was told that his radiators would have to be shifted, because some of them were under windows. Eaga told me that it has no flexibility because of the Executive's guidance. Could not a balance be struck between energy efficiency, which is important, and the not inconsiderable inconvenience that would be caused to elderly and possibly vulnerable people who might have to undertake extensive redecoration and would experience delays and expense as a result of such unwanted extra work?

I was not aware of that issue and I thank Elaine Murray for drawing it to my attention. It would be wrong to give a snap response to her question, but I will certainly look into the matter and get back to her with my considered thoughts.

John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP):

Does the minister agree that despite the fact that the programme to provide free central heating systems, which has been instituted, is most excellent, the Executive and the Government at Westminster must provide people with enough money to operate the systems? It is no use having an up-to-date system that one cannot afford to turn on. Until that is achieved, the systems that have been installed are not much use to many vulnerable people.

Malcolm Chisholm:

There are three parts to eliminating fuel poverty. We are doing all that we can in relation to energy efficiency. As I said, the programme is the biggest ever. The second issue is the price of fuel and members will be aware that I wrote recently to the fuel companies about that. The third part of the equation is income. I cannot in one answer rerun the debate that we had about pensions two weeks ago, but I am sure that John Swinburne will acknowledge that the poorest pensioners have benefited enormously from the measures that have been taken by the Labour Government since 1997.

Mr John Home Robertson (East Lothian) (Lab):

I congratulate the Executive on the success of the excellent scheme, but I want to press the minister further on the subject of the handful of recalcitrant private landlords who are refusing to allow their pensioner tenants the benefits of central heating when they could have it free, gratis and for nothing, funded by the Scottish Executive. Will the minister at least name and shame the seven individuals who have taken such disgraceful action?

Malcolm Chisholm:

I said that I had sympathy with that point of view when Margaret Ewing expressed it. I am sure that the key issue that Margaret Ewing, John Home Robertson and others will want us to address is what can be done in regulations and the legislation to ensure that landlords do not take such action. Under the current legislation, there is nothing we can do, except name and shame the landlords.