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Chamber and committees

Plenary, 03 Mar 2005

Meeting date: Thursday, March 3, 2005


Contents


Question Time


SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE


Environment and Rural Development


Food Self-sufficiency

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will take any action to counteract the decline in food self-sufficiency. (S2O-5626)

The Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Ross Finnie):

Self-sufficiency is not an explicit objective of agriculture or food policy. Scotland cannot be fully self-sufficient in the range of food products that consumers now demand. However, the Executive encourages exporting, supports local food initiatives and prioritises the use of local and home-grown produce in its support for processing and marketing.

I raised my question because United Kingdom self-sufficiency has dropped 12 per cent in the past decade and within Scotland we have lost 1 million sheep, a third of our pig herd and 20,000 suckler cows.

Is there a question, Mr Arbuckle?

Yes. With the removal of production subsidies, will the Scottish Executive increase support for Scottish food producers?

Ross Finnie:

I am sure, as Alasdair Morgan observed while Mr Arbuckle was asking his question, that he did not mean that we have lost those sheep—that might be carelessness, rather than a permanent decline in production.

The issue is how we promote Scottish food and how we ensure that there are markets for it. As I said in my first answer, I am not wholly persuaded that we can simply ignore the different foods that consumers demand. We have to support indigenous development. In Mr Arbuckle's constituency, problems were faced in the fruit sector, given the narrow window for production. The use of grant and support expanded production, particularly of strawberries. Production was also increased in Scotland as a whole.

I am anxious that we should take every opportunity to use existing mechanisms to promote the market for Scottish food and to ensure that we react to the market by raising quality, so that when we say that Scottish food is a quality product, that is not just a slogan, but is supported by the serious standards that we set in Scotland. That is the only way in which we can persuade the consumer at home and abroad to buy increasing amounts of Scottish produce.

Mr Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green):

One of the Executive's key targets on food self-sufficiency is in the organic action plan, which aims to increase organic production in Scotland to supply at least 70 per cent of the Scottish demand for organic products that can be produced here. Is not the fact that spending on the organic aid scheme will drop off dramatically in the next year an indication that the action plan is failing to encourage farmers to supply organic produce for consumption at home?

Ross Finnie:

No, I do not agree. The notion that a product will succeed only if Government subsidises it is the wrong way of looking at the issue. In addition to our whole-hearted support for the organic plan and the food strategy to which I referred in my answer to Andrew Arbuckle, we are pointing out that we have not only quality food, but a range of organic produce for which we want to expand the market. We can supply that market within the limitations of climatic conditions in Scotland, which do not enable us to produce the full range of product. However, the issue is not necessarily about subsidy, although I accept what might have been an implicit criticism of how we have projected our wish to supply the market. We remain wholly committed to the organic action plan.

Alasdair Morgan (South of Scotland) (SNP):

To pick up the point that the minister made about stimulating demand for local produce, far too often public bodies use the excuse of compulsory competitive tendering not to use local products. What steps have the minister and his department taken to advise public bodies so that they can observe the law in as creative a fashion as possible in sourcing local products while still following all European Union regulations on tendering?

Ross Finnie:

As Alasdair Morgan may be aware, we have issued guidance on healthy and wholesome food. The most recent guidance came from my colleague Rhona Brankin. The area in which we can most easily place some emphasis on local produce is seasonal produce. There is nothing in the regulations that prevents us from stipulating a requirement for wholesome food on a seasonal basis. We have issued that instruction to the relevant public bodies—particularly health and education authorities—to alert them to the fact that they can take that direction in their specifications. We hope that that will be helpful in relation to sourcing local produce.


Waste Services (Efficiencies)

To ask the Scottish Executive what measures its Environment and Rural Affairs Department will take to help local authorities to deliver efficiency gains in waste services. (S2O-5667)

We encourage all local authorities in the implementation of the national waste strategy to share best practice and to work together to achieve economies of scale when developing waste treatment infrastructure.

Scott Barrie:

The minister will be aware of the huge improvements that have been made by the local authority in my area in relation to recycling and waste services. Fife Council has gone from second bottom to the top of the national league. Will the sums that are available not only to Fife Council but to other local authorities continue so that those improvements can be encouraged and maintained?

Ross Finnie:

I join Scott Barrie in congratulating Fife Council on the efforts that it has made so far. I remind him and everyone else in the chamber that we built up the national waste strategy on an area basis to encourage efficiency, which is the issue that Scott Barrie raises in his question. We did not want every local authority to invest in expensive capital infrastructure for waste processing, because that would have led to duplication within areas. The area waste plans were designed not just to encourage a sense of momentum but to ensure that we achieve best value by sharing facilities and building a network of capital infrastructure to deliver on the national waste plan.

Mrs Mary Mulligan (Linlithgow) (Lab):

At a recent briefing that West Lothian Council held for me and my colleague Bristow Muldoon, the council raised a particular problem that it has encountered in developing the waste strategy. The minister referred to the fact that the strategy is being implemented on an area basis, but West Lothian Council is experiencing difficulties with bringing local authorities together because they are at different stages. The requirement to submit a plan within three months is causing them some difficulties. Will the minister comment on that?

Ross Finnie:

The basic framework should be in existence already. The area waste plans were developed by grouping the local authorities into eight area structures, which then came forward with their plans to meet the targets that the Executive has set. It is the aggregation of the eight area waste plans that makes up the national waste strategy. I am disappointed if difficulties are arising in a particular area because of the different rates of progress that the respective local authorities are making, but I hope that because the area waste plan was produced at the outset by the authorities there will be some means of resolving any difficulties. I will be happy to have my department, which is overseeing the allocation of funding for the national waste strategy, engage with the member's local authority to try to resolve the matter.


Waste Water Treatment (Odours)

To ask the Scottish Executive what action is being taken to reduce offensive odours at waste water treatment works. (S2O-5655)

The Deputy Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Lewis Macdonald):

We will publish a voluntary code of practice on odour control in April and we will consult on a statutory code in the autumn with the intention of bringing it into force in April 2006 in line with the provisions of the Water Services etc (Scotland) Bill. As I said in my statement to Parliament on 9 February, I have set Scottish Water the objective of minimising odour nuisance at 35 waste water treatment works as part of the quality and standards III investment programme, pending the implementation of the statutory code.

Des McNulty:

As the minister may know, my constituency is doubly blighted by waste water treatment plants. On the one hand we have Dalmuir sewage works, which takes the effluent from Clydebank and the west side of Glasgow, and on the other we are about to have the delight of the Renfrewshire plant on the shore opposite Clydebank. Given the experience in Dalmuir of offensive odours that continued for a considerable period—much of that has now been corrected—will he ensure that the regulator is making sufficient provision for the appropriate shedding and guarding of offensive odours and for containment in plants to prevent odours from affecting nearby communities and in particular my community in Clydebank?

Lewis Macdonald:

I am pleased to hear that matters at Dalmuir have improved. The intention behind introducing the code is to tackle existing problems and to give developers guidance on the measures that they need to put in place when developing new plant. I am happy to assure Des McNulty that I expect the regulator, Scottish Water and its contractors to ensure that any new plant is constructed with that in mind and that necessary mitigating action is taken at existing plant.

Mr Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con):

The minister will be aware from previous questions that Scottish Water's new waterworks have produced particularly offensive odours in the Argyll towns of Inverary and Campbeltown. Does he realise the effect that that can have on tourism, on which those towns rely? What will he do to prevent such a situation from happening again? What will he do about the places that are in that situation?

Lewis Macdonald:

If Mr McGrigor reflects on my initial answer, he will recognise that the introduction of a statutory code of practice and the instruction to Scottish Water to minimise odour nuisance at several existing plants are intended to tackle existing problems and to put in place guidance to prevent such problems from arising at new plant.


Calf Registration

To ask the Scottish Executive what action it will take to address the backlog of cattle that have missed the 27-day calf registration period. (S2O-5612)

The Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Ross Finnie):

It will come as no surprise to Alex Johnstone that the issue is complex. As he knows, animals that miss the European Union legislative deadline of 27 days are registered on the database and issued with a notice of registration. Such animals can be bred from but can move only direct to a knacker's yard and must not enter the food chain.

Since full compliance with the deadline, the number of late registrations has fallen by 85 per cent to just under 1 per cent of the total cattle registered. We continue to work closely with the industry to reduce that further. That work includes a high-profile joint industry publicity campaign to remind keepers to register animals on time and provision of a fast-track last-minute registration process, in addition to online registration. We are reviewing the appeals procedure to reflect better the problems that the industry is experiencing.

Alex Johnstone:

I thank the minister for that answer, but that still leaves us with the problem of the backlog. Has he considered employing genetic sequencing to identify calves correctly and match them to their mothers so that they can be added to the register with full status?

Ross Finnie:

As the member is fully aware, the difficulties arise from the very different interpretation that we originally placed on the 27-day rule. At the outset, my department was relaxed about giving reasonable leeway when interpreting the 27-day rule, in the knowledge that the movement of an animal without a full passport was restricted. The issue is not necessarily matching the animal. The issuing of a notice of registration means that we know where an animal is and that it has missed the deadline.

I deeply regret that, as a result of abuses throughout the European Union, the EU auditors interpreted the provision narrowly. Although it is of no comfort to the member, we received a letter recently that said that the much stricter interpretation that we are now applying is wholly in line with the auditors' view of how the rule should be applied.

I remain concerned about the backlog to which the member refers. We continue to work with the industry and the European Commission to resolve the matter. Historically, that was a question of interpretation. I hope that we can continue to raise the issue with the Commission and to seek a resolution. However, I point out that notices of registration are now being issued for less than 1 per cent of total registrations.


Climate Change Programme

To ask the Scottish Executive what progress has been made in reviewing the Scottish climate change programme. (S2O-5652)

The Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Ross Finnie):

We continue to make progress. Since the review of the Scottish climate change programme got under way last autumn, we have made progress in several areas. Our evaluation of the impact of key Executive policies is well under way. The work to project Scottish greenhouse gas emissions and, separately, carbon dioxide emissions to 2020 is progressing well. We have some base information on our assessment of the practicability of introducing Scottish climate change targets and we are making progress on that. We are now reviewing the responses to our public consultation with a view to publishing an analysis of the revised Scottish climate change programme later this year.

Christine May:

A major part of the climate change programme is about encouraging industry to use greener fuels. What steps is the minister taking to ensure that industry has access to more environmentally friendly and less polluting fuel sources such as—he will not be surprised to hear me saying this—biomass in co-firing and biofuels for use in road transport?

Ross Finnie:

The Executive requires to work on its response to the climate change programme to highlight the issues that the member has just raised. We also have to work very closely with the United Kingdom Government to ensure that the respective taxation regimes that have been adjusted continue to act as an incentive to people to use those fuels or to convert to using them. Even within agriculture policy, there is a range of issues around utilising certain energy crops, biofuels, short rotation and coppice crops. There is a range of options, all of which will require to be worked up and incorporated into the revised climate change programme.

Mark Ballard (Lothians) (Green):

Following the motion on energy efficiency that was passed by the Parliament last week, there is a clear consensus that tackling climate change and fuel poverty can be done not only by changing energy sources, but by reducing energy use through increasing energy efficiency. Does the minister accept that the Scottish Executive now has a real mandate for an ambitious national programme of energy efficiency? Will he accept that there is a need for energy efficiency targets such as those that my colleague Shiona Baird suggests in her member's bill, so that we can drive the process towards energy efficiency?

Ross Finnie:

In launching the review of the climate change programme, we made it clear that the development of an energy efficiency strategy was central and we welcome the additional, valuable contribution that the debates in the chamber and in parliamentary committees have made to that process. Part of the process will involve arriving at the policy instruments and deciding what the objectives, targets and outcomes should be. We will consider whether there are appropriate areas where targets are meaningful and can be achieved; there are some areas where that is the case. That is all part of the process in which we are currently engaged. I stress that energy efficiency is and has been accepted as key to the climate change programme.

Alasdair Morgan (South of Scotland) (SNP):

Most members will have received today a flyer from the Office of Gas and Electricity Markets, which tells us, among other information, that renewables plants in the north-west Highlands will have to pay an extra 9p per megawatt to transmit their electricity compared with installations elsewhere in the country. How will that 9p extra charge in the areas that are most suitable for many sources of renewables generation help the Executive to meet its targets?

Ross Finnie:

As the member is aware, the Executive continues to hold discussions with Ofgem and the energy companies. On the face of it, there could be a conflict with the pricing mechanisms, although we have to read carefully about the costings of access to the grid and transmission across the grid. The issue is not quite as simple as even I thought; I thought that we were dealing simply with an increased cost of access to the grid, whereas we are talking about transmission costs. We are reviewing the matter because we are committed to ensuring that renewable energy can be developed and sourced anywhere in Scotland without commercial disadvantage. My colleague the Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning is in discussions with Ofgem on that subject.


Climate Change (Energy Saving)

To ask the Scottish Executive what steps it will take to ensure that it makes an equitable contribution to addressing climate change, for example, by introducing energy-saving measures in buildings for which it has responsibility. (S2O-5615)

The Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Ross Finnie):

Our on-going review of the Scottish climate change programme is considering the scope for strengthening existing measures and introducing new ones, which will take account of responses received to our public consultation. As I made clear in answers to earlier questions, energy efficiency, including of Executive buildings, will continue to be a key part of our climate change programme. Our revised programme will also set out how we see the contribution of the building element to our overall climate change programme.

Donald Gorrie:

The Executive indirectly funds a wide range of buildings, from large ones such as prisons to housing association houses. Will the minister ensure that proper attention is paid to measures such as the use of solar and wind power? We sit in a building that failed notably to take advantage of those opportunities.

Ross Finnie:

Donald Gorrie makes a valid point. In discussions about our review of the climate change programme and in discussions about public procurement, the Minister for Finance and Public Service Reform was alert to the need—for both environmental and value-for-money reasons—to include such considerations in the Executive procurement of the large range of buildings over which we have control, as Donald Gorrie made clear.


Health and Community Care


Terrestrial Trunked Radio (Health Effects)

To ask the Scottish Executive whether any studies on the health effects of the Airwave police communications system, TETRA, are being undertaken by the national health service. (S2O-5619)

The Deputy Minister for Health and Community Care (Rhona Brankin):

No such studies are being undertaken by the NHS in Scotland. However, the issue of possible health effects caused by signals from terrestrial trunked radio equipment was comprehensively addressed by the National Radiological Protection Board's independent advisory group on non-ionising radiations in its report "Possible Health Effects from Terrestrial Trunked Radio" in 2001. The advisory group concluded that it is unlikely that TETRA could pose a risk to health, but made eight recommendations for future research to address the remaining areas of uncertainty. Those recommendations have been pursued in comprehensive research studies funded by the Home Office. No new evidence has emerged from those studies to challenge the advisory group's view.

Mr Ruskell:

Claims have been made in Fife about a potential correlation between the increasing incidence of motor neurone disease and the operation since 1997 of TETRA technology by Dolphin Telecom UK Ltd. Certain communities have already been exposed to TETRA emissions from Dolphin masts for up to eight years. Does the minister agree that there is a strong case for using the eight years of TETRA experience in Scotland to examine communities close to Dolphin's sites throughout the country to determine with as much certainty as possible whether there is a correlation between the incidence of motor neurone disease and the operation of TETRA and that such a study should be completed before the roll-out and activation of the Airwave police system?

Rhona Brankin:

I am aware of the allegations of a cluster of motor neurone disease cases in the proximity of the TETRA mast in Fife. We are aware that the matter has been raised in both the Scottish and Westminster Parliaments and highlighted in the media. Indeed, officials have been in contact with the director of public health in Fife to confirm what action Fife NHS Board has taken to investigate those allegations.

The board has taken action and an environmental hazard investigation team has been set up with a remit to look at allegations of ill health in the Drumcarrow area of north-east Fife. That includes representation from the public health department, councillors, community councillors, local pressure groups, Health Protection Scotland, Fife Council and the Scottish Environment Protection Agency. A separate technical sub-group has been set up to plan and supervise the information-seeking stage of the investigation. Of course, the Home Office's position is wholly in keeping with the approach taken by the Scottish Executive Health Department on a public health issue of that nature.

Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP):

Does the minister recall that much of the concern that campaigners have expressed is about electrical oscillations in the frequency range 15Hz to 25Hz? With that in mind, if the Executive has further contact with people who are doing research on the matter, will it consider research into the cathode ray tubes that are used in televisions in homes, the signal strength of which is 40 times greater than that of any of the mobile communications systems that are used? Might we have the benefit of real science, rather than spoof science and speculation on the matter?

Rhona Brankin:

I am reassured that more than adequate research is going on and I will be more than happy to provide Stewart Stevenson with details about the various research projects that are being undertaken and to address any concerns that he might still have.


Accident and Emergency Services (Glasgow)

To ask the Scottish Executive when it will review the provision of accident and emergency services in the Greater Glasgow NHS Board area. (S2O-5593)

The Minister for Health and Community Care (Mr Andy Kerr):

In the debate on the Glasgow acute services review that took place on 12 September 2002, Malcolm Chisholm, the then Minister for Health and Community Care, recognised the particular concerns that had been expressed about the proposed number of A and E units in Glasgow. He went on to say that he supported a review of the planning assumptions that underpinned the decision to have two major A and E units, at Glasgow royal infirmary and at the Southern general hospital. NHS Greater Glasgow gave a commitment to undertake such a review and carried out the review during the summer and autumn of 2004. I understand that the board considered a report on the outcome of the review on 22 February and I expect to receive that report and notification of the board's deliberations soon.

Pauline McNeill:

Will the minister carefully consider the implications for greater Glasgow of endorsing the move to two units? I am pleased that the approach is being reviewed. Will he further consider the view of the accident and emergency sub-committee of NHS Greater Glasgow, which is that it is not acceptable for the 999 service to refer patients to units such as the proposed unit at Gartnavel hospital, which would have no accident and emergency service or consultants? Does he agree that the way forward and the best option for Glasgow is to have three A and E units, which would ensure that the service has the capacity and the resilience to deal with all aspects of accidents and ill health?

Mr Kerr:

I fully expect the board's proposals to fulfil those obligations. In relation to emergency care, we are trying to ensure that minor as well as major injuries are dealt with more sensitively and that patients are streamed to the most appropriate level of care. I understand that the Glasgow plan proposes that there should be two full A and E units and three emergency receiving units, which would mean that general practitioners would be able to refer patients directly to hospital without their first having to go to A and E and wait there to see a consultant. Minor injury units would be provided in all five acute sites and a system of streaming patients would ensure that patients with minor injuries did not have to wait beside people who had suffered major trauma, such as road accident victims. The strategy that is being adopted is consistent with the idea of streaming patients into the most appropriate care in the service.

Allied to that is the role of the Scottish Ambulance Service. The number of paramedics in Glasgow has increased from 78 in 2002 to 143. From this month, there will be a paramedic in every front-line ambulance in Glasgow. The approach will ensure that people receive the right care at the right location and I hope that it will improve the quality of care and reduce the time that people must wait for care. I await the review document, but on the general approach to A and E services it is right and sensible to stream patients to the most appropriate level of care in our health services.

Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab):

Will the minister actively encourage NHS Greater Glasgow and Argyll and Clyde NHS Board to work together? When we add the statistics for A and E attendance in my constituency to the statistics for the north-west corridor of Glasgow, it becomes clear that the argument for a third A and E unit at Gartnavel hospital is entirely justified.

Mr Kerr:

Patient flows are an interesting area that needs to be examined and the boards are working together on the matter. The GP receiving unit at Gartnavel might be enhanced and developed as a result of that work, but I have not yet seen the reports that will indicate what the thinking is in Glasgow. We must ensure that people get access, in time, to the right location and the right care. That is what the strategy is about throughout Scotland. I will certainly look out for the issue that the member raises about NHS Argyll and Clyde and NHS Greater Glasgow working together. I await the report, which will come to me in due course.


Dental Services (Grampian)

To ask the Scottish Executive when the Minister or Deputy Minister for Health and Community Care will visit Grampian to gather information on the region's dental services. (S2O-5598)

I will visit the Grampian NHS Board area in April and the Minister for Health and Community Care was there on 16 February.

Richard Lochhead:

I am delighted to hear that the minister will visit the region in April. She will find that national health service dental services are imploding and are facing a state of crisis, although the Minister for Health and Community Care appeared to deny that when he visited the area a couple of weeks ago.

I say to the minister that dentists in Grampian are paying close attention to Scotland's two dental schools. They are very concerned by the situation at Glasgow dental school, as the General Dental Council has just released a report that is quite scathing and refers to "fundamental and ongoing problems". Will she use this opportunity to respond to that report and outline the steps that she intends to take to ensure that both of Scotland's dental schools can continue, so that the current shortage of dentists elsewhere in the country can be addressed?

Rhona Brankin:

I am fully aware of the General Dental Council's report. I met the GDC in December and discussed its concerns. I have already asked officials to arrange a meeting with Muir Russell to ensure that the relevant changes have been made and that the issues that are raised in the report are being dealt with.

In December, I instructed my officials to liaise with Glasgow dental school and the University of Glasgow to ensure that progress was being made, and I am confident that progress has been and is being made. The report was of an inspection in 2003 and much has changed since then. The purpose of the inspections is to drive up standards—it is no surprise that the report was critical, given that that is what the inspection aims to do. However, I am confident that Professor Jeremy Bagg, who is the new head of the dental school, has taken timely and effective action with Greater Glasgow NHS Board to ensure that sterilisation, for example, is of the highest standard. I have been assured by the chief dental officer that patient safety has never been in question.

Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):

Does the minister agree that she does not need to visit Grampian to gather information on the region's dental crisis? The Executive is fully aware of the extent of the problem. Does she also agree that the situation is so acute in Scotland that the Executive needs to announce its plans within the month, rather than wait for developments south of the border? Scottish solutions are needed to solve a dental crisis that is particularly acute in the north-east.

We are conscious of the challenges that face dental services throughout Scotland, particularly in the north-east. That is why we will announce plans for dental services in the very near future.


National Health Service (Technology)

To ask the Scottish Executive how it plans to use technology to cut waiting times, improve efficiency and increase access to services in the NHS. (S2O-5585)

The Minister for Health and Community Care (Mr Andy Kerr):

We are committed to modernising the NHS and to reducing waiting for patients further. Last week we announced record levels of capital investment over the next three years. That will help to ensure that NHS Scotland is better equipped and resourced than ever before to modernise services and improve the quality and responsiveness of care for patients. We have allocated £125 million specifically for the provision of medical equipment, including centrally directed resources for diagnostic equipment such as linear accelerators.

Mr McNeil:

When I visited Aberdeen's Robert Gordon University during the February recess, top researchers there showed me an array of innovations that could revolutionise the running of the national health service. If the technology to manage bed allocations better, to streamline administration of drugs and to do much more already exists, how can we make it easier and faster to get those developments out of the labs and into the wards?

Mr Andy Kerr:

The member and I must have nearly crossed paths. I also visited the Robert Gordon University to see the excellent facilities for nurse training within the university campus. Work is already going on within our health service to ensure that modern information technology systems support the efficiency to which he refers. We certainly want to ensure that IT is used to integrate service delivery, cut out unwanted and unnecessary effort and make information available. I am focused, through our e-health team in the Executive, on ensuring that that happens.

We have some good innovations. For instance, all general practitioners in Scotland can now access test results from hospitals and 40 per cent of referral letters go directly from the GP's computer to the hospital, without the need for snail mail, as it is described these days. I recently heard about systems at the Townhead GP practice in Irvine that allow patients to log on to find out information about themselves, to book appointments, to renew prescriptions and to access their test results with their GP's comments attached.

I reassure the member that we are doing our best with regard to technology. It is not a question of resources but a question of choices—of choosing the best pathways to take with information technology.

Our e-health programme board has a research and development group that is looking at some of the fantastic innovations throughout Scotland. I am sure that we will want to develop some of them in future. Indeed, I want to bring ideas from the lab into the practice, for the benefit of patients. I would argue that, to an extent, that is happening already, but there is clearly room for improvement. I assure the member that that will be my direction of travel over the next few months.


NHS 24

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it has conducted a review of NHS 24. (S2O-5596)

The Executive announced last week that an independent review group is being established to identify performance improvements that should be implemented by NHS 24.

Rob Gibson:

What prominence will be given to evidence of misdiagnosis by NHS 24 staff, such as was alleged by a patient in Caithness earlier this year? She was told that she was suffering from constipation, but four hours later, through her own initiative, she was operated on for acute appendicitis in a hospital 20 miles away.

Rhona Brankin:

A total of 31,000 calls are handled by NHS 24 every month. Of the calls received, 24,800—80 per cent—are answered within 30 seconds of the end of the welcome message. Around 18,000 are dealt with straight away without the need for a call-back and, of the balance, more than 90 per cent of those assessed as priority 1 calls are returned within the one-hour call-back target. That is not to say that I do not express concern at particular cases such as the one that Mr Gibson raises. I acknowledge that there seems to have been a particular problem in that case. That is exactly why we have asked for a review of NHS 24.

Mrs Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con):

I have visited NHS 24 as recently as last evening, and it is clear to me that, apart from staff shortages, the greatest strain on the service has come about as a result of general practitioners opting out of out-of-hours care, especially at weekends, coupled with some lack of understanding by callers of how the out-of-hours system operates.

The Executive has left the publicising of new out-of-hours provision to individual health boards, with variable effectiveness. Does the minister agree that, with hindsight, it might have been better for the Executive to run a public awareness campaign about the changes to out-of-hours provision? After the review has taken place, and after the current problems have, I hope, been ironed out, will she consider such a campaign for NHS 24 to raise awareness and restore public confidence in the system?

Mrs Milne may not know this, but we have already run a public information campaign about NHS 24. If the review reveals a need to provide more public information, ministers will look into that.

Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab):

I ask the minister to ensure that the NHS 24 review considers the particular issues faced by rural communities such as Killin and Crianlarich in my constituency, so that—as the out-of-hours local GP service is phased out and ambulance rapid response service with medical cover is phased in—NHS 24 will interface effectively with the new services. The nearest doctor may be one and a half hours away.

Rhona Brankin:

NHS 24 is already very aware of issues to do with remote and rural areas, where people have particular needs. NHS 24 is listening to the views of local communities and acting on them. It will have to take the views of those communities into account when it further develops its services.

Some of the ideas that NHS 24 is currently exploring include the possibility of setting up a dedicated team of front-line staff to support the provision of care in remote and rural communities, and an investigation of how to make the best use of NHS 24's local knowledge databases and local NHS partners such as GPs and nurses, who have a wealth of in-depth local knowledge and expertise.


General Questions


European Union Constitutional Treaty

To ask the Scottish Executive what discussions it has had with Her Majesty's Government regarding the referendum on the European Union constitutional treaty. (S2O-5649)

Although the referendum is a reserved matter, the Scottish Executive is in close touch with the United Kingdom Government to ensure that Scottish interests are properly reflected.

Irene Oldfather:

I do not know whether the minister has had the opportunity to read through the new constitution that has been published—I am sure that Mr Gallie will have done—but does he agree that the clear expression of competencies that is set out in title III—in particular, in paragraph 2 of article I-11—is to be welcomed? Given that he knows about the clear benefits that membership of the EU has for Scotland, will he, along with me, be campaigning for a yes vote in the referendum?

Mr McCabe:

We have always been enthusiastic members of the EU. We think that the new constitution promotes the kind of Europe that we are comfortable with, which is a wider, more flexible, more streamlined Europe that allows regional legislative bodies such as ours to have a greater say. That increases our ability to influence the member state and the member state's engagement with the EU. We regard all those things as being highly positive and in the best interests of Scotland.

Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con):

Is the minister aware that the finalisation of the EU constitution has been a principal objective of successive EU presidencies? Is he aware that the Tory UK presidency that will commence this year will ensure the immediate implementation of a referendum on the constitution? If the Tory Government that emerges from the general election does not have an outright majority, will he urge his colleagues at Westminster to support the idea of holding an early referendum?

Mr McCabe:

We are dealing with hypothetical situations that are extremely unlikely to arise, to say the least. There will be many developments in the new Europe before the European delegation from this country is again Tory led.

We look forward to continuing our engagement in the process and to the UK Government extending its influence within the new Europe, making known its point of view and making our views more relevant to and more accepted by other member states. Through that process, we will gain a wider acceptance of the benefits of the EU for all inhabitants of the UK.

Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab):

Is the minister aware that many people in the Labour and trade union movement will oppose the EU constitutional treaty on the grounds that it will move Europe in the wrong direction by binding us to free-market economics, further privatisation of public services and less accountability to the electorate? Does he share my concern about the proposed change in the rules that will make it far easier for the EU to take areas such as health and education into the general agreement on trade in services, which could ultimately mean the end of publicly owned and publicly accountable health and education systems?

Mr McCabe:

I am aware that many members of the Labour and trade union movement regard the EU as a bastion for the improvement of working conditions. They view the EU as a positive organisation from the point of view of social cohesion and the numerous benefits that it has brought to people in this country. As with any organisation, there are different views on different aspects of it, but no single point of view should detract from the fact that the EU has brought considerable benefits to ordinary, hard-working families here in Scotland and throughout the UK.

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. My question was about the EU constitutional treaty, not the EU. The minister perhaps made a mistake in the answer that he gave.

That is not a point of order. That is a matter for the minister.



It is all right, minister. You can sit down because you have answered the question.


Sale of Sports Facilities

To ask the Scottish Executive what recent representations it has received regarding the sale of playing fields and other sports facilities. (S2O-5581)

The Executive has not received any representations recently on the sale of playing fields and other sports facilities.

Dennis Canavan:

Is the minister aware of the concern about big business interests targeting sports clubs and trying to bribe members to sell off their premises and facilities for projects such as housing and other developments, thereby depriving communities of much-needed sports opportunities? Will the Executive respond positively to the petitions on the matter that were presented to the Parliament earlier this week, so that valuable sports facilities that were founded and paid for by previous generations are not sold off simply to line the pockets of a few greedy individuals?

Patricia Ferguson:

I am aware of some cases that are similar to those to which Dennis Canavan referred. Obviously, where such facilities are in private ownership, it is entirely up to the owners as to how they dispose of their assets. That said, planning regulations could be used to mitigate against such loss. None of us wants to see facilities lost where that can be avoided. I will look at the petitions with a great deal of interest.

Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green):

I welcome what the minister said about the planning system. Those of us who will scrutinise the forthcoming planning bill will bear that in mind. Is there anything that the Executive can do in the meantime to stop the loss of those facilities to communities in the name of shameless profiteering? Also, would it be appropriate for a duty to be placed on sports clubs—similar to that which is placed on charities—to hand on their assets to an organisation that has similar objectives to their own when clubs are dissolved?

Patricia Ferguson:

As I indicated, the matter is in the hands of those who are in ownership of the facilities. I assume that, if someone takes the opportunity of joining such a club, they should have an interest in the aims and objectives of the club. If so, surely they look to protect those aims and objectives.

The Executive's intention is to try to ensure that, wherever possible, we retain playing fields for public use. There have been occasions in the past, in cases involving schools in particular, when sportscotland has been able to enter into negotiations and to provide, or help to influence the provision of, improved facilities. In those cases, other uses have been found for the less satisfactory facilities that the improved facilities replaced.

Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP):

Should the judgment be that there is no opportunity to tackle the issue under the charities reform legislation that is currently before the Parliament, will the minister consider discussing with Westminster colleagues changes to the Companies Act 1989 in respect of community interest companies? Will she raise the question whether it should be mandatory for such facilities to be designated as CICs, as that would bring them under the kind of controls to which my colleague Patrick Harvie made reference?

Patricia Ferguson:

I am always willing to look at any opportunity that might arise to protect playing fields and open spaces in this country. The question whether the route that Mr Stevenson suggests is one that would be appropriate is another matter, but I am more than happy to look at his suggestion.

Mr Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con):

John Gold of the Scottish Schools Football Association has said that

"The greatest frustration for those who are trying to provide football and develop the game at grass-roots level is the lack of suitable playing fields."

How can the minister justify the sale of sports pitches and other sports facilities when, in 2002, the New Opportunities Fund for physical education and sport allocated £52 million to local authorities to develop sports facilities for school and community use?

Patricia Ferguson:

Nothing that I said justifies the accusation that Mr McGrigor has made. From 1996, when national planning policy guideline 11 came into place, to March of last year, some 397 planning applications for the development of playing fields were made. As a result, the overall net loss of playing fields in Scotland is some 115, a figure that should be compared with the 6,000 playing fields that are still in use.

The majority of pitches that were lost were blaes or ash—facilities that we are trying to phase out— and many of those that were lost were converted to grass. The figure for the net loss of blaes and ash pitches was 137 and the figure for grass pitches was 37. The figure for replacements includes some 59 synthetic turf pitches, which, unlike the blaes and ash pitches about which I have just spoken, are available for use throughout the year. On many occasions, the other knock-on effect was that better changing facilities were provided, thereby giving the people who use the facilities a quality experience. It is not all doom and gloom as the member tried to suggest.


Workplace Segregation

To ask the Scottish Executive what action it is taking to encourage the end of segregation of men and women in the workplace. (S2O-5578)

The Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Allan Wilson):

The Executive, in partnership with a range of other organisations in the close the gap project, continues to raise awareness about occupational segregation and other reasons for the gender pay gap. We also continue to encourage employers and employees in Scotland to take action to close that gap.

We have been contributing to related United Kingdom work on the proposed duty on public bodies to promote equality between women and men and in relation to the Women and Work Commission. Within the Executive, we are also doing work in several areas to encourage women into traditionally male-dominated occupations and vice versa. Work to date has been focused on the police, child care, construction, teacher education and gender stereotyping in schools.

Ms White:

I thank the minister for that detailed reply. I presume that he is aware of the findings of a recent study by the University of Glasgow, which highlighted that Scotland is blighted by discrimination in the workplace, where the outdated stereotypes in relation to men's and women's jobs are as prevalent as ever, regardless of what the Executive has done. Is he concerned by those findings? Does he agree that segregation at the level shown in the report has a deeply damaging impact on the Scottish economy, because it means that we do not make full use of men and women in different jobs?

Allan Wilson:

I am not familiar with the details of the report to which the member refers, but I will try to get up to speed with it. I accept the basic premise that the gender gap in pay is damaging to the economy and to individuals, which is why we are involved in many initiatives to try to close the gap. However, in comparison to the rest of the UK, Scotland is closing the gap more quickly, of which we can be justifiably proud. I hope that, by working on the initiatives and in co-operation with the UK Government to build on Barbara Castle's historic Equal Pay Act 1970, we will make more progress.


G8 Summit (Tourism)

To ask the Scottish Executive how it will exploit the tourism potential for Perthshire and Scotland of Gleneagles hosting the G8 summit. (S2O-5625)

The Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport (Patricia Ferguson):

The G8 summit, coming as it does just before the Scottish open at Loch Lomond and the open championship at St Andrews, gives Scotland an unparalleled opportunity to promote itself on the world stage during July. We intend to take full advantage of that unique marketing opportunity.

Will the Scottish Executive provide one-off additional funding to local tourist boards to help to maximise the potential?

Patricia Ferguson:

The Executive is working hard with Scottish Enterprise, VisitScotland, Perth and Kinross Council, business organisations and others to ensure that we maximise the publicity that Scotland will get throughout the world before, during and after the G8 summit. In particular, VisitScotland is exploring a number of highly visible means of attracting the attention of the huge number of international media representatives who will attend the event. I suspect that we will not give individual funding to tourist boards, but an unparalleled level of marketing money has been given to VisitScotland. In addition, we may well get a great deal of free publicity from the various events, compared to a cost of about £300,000 for a television or movie theatre advertisement.


Schools (Discipline)

To ask the Scottish Executive what action is being taken to improve discipline in schools. (S2O-5653)

The Minister for Education and Young People (Peter Peacock):

As yesterday's report of Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Education on behaviour in schools said,

"most schools are succeeding well in maintaining good discipline".

However, I will continue to work in partnership with education authorities and other stakeholders to ensure that the approaches and resources that are making a difference in most schools extend to all schools over time.

Michael McMahon:

As the minister will know, recently published figures show that the number of exclusions in schools has risen by 7 per cent and that male pupils account for nearly 80 per cent of exclusions. Does he think that that is a result of teaching styles in schools that alienate boys and increase boredom and confusion, or of the invisibility of bullying among girls, which tends to be less physical and less immediately noticeable? What steps, if any, have been taken to address the issue?

Peter Peacock:

The immediate reason for the rise in the number of exclusions is that I have made it clear to head teachers that we will not have artificial targets to reduce exclusions and that, if they believe that a pupil should be excluded, they should exclude that pupil. The authority is vested in head teachers: if they believe that a child should be excluded, that is their decision and I will back it. That said, we know that there are challenging issues in our schools, particularly among boys, who are disengaging from learning in a way that we do not want, primarily between years 1 and 3 in secondary school and principally because our curriculum has not been challenging or engaging enough for those young people. Everything that we are doing about curriculum reform in our schools is designed to ensure that boys and girls engage much more actively in education, feel enthused and motivated by it and gain something from it. As a consequence, discipline will improve.

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con):

Is the minister aware that the HMIE review that was published yesterday stated that the guidance that the Executive had issued on procedures for monitoring exclusions and attendance

"had yet to be fully and rigorously implemented"?

As the Executive has ceased to publish the statistical bulletin on incidents of violence and anti-social behaviour against local authority school staff, and as schools are not recording such incidents consistently, how does the minister propose to monitor the incidence of indiscipline in Scotland's schools?

Peter Peacock:

I have made it clear that I intend to monitor that closely. I will do so by talking to teachers and directly surveying teacher opinion and experience regularly so that we can adjust and adapt policy. That is the right way to monitor indiscipline, but we will also interview pupils to find out their daily experience. That way, we can ensure that our policy approaches are tailored to suit the circumstances in our schools.

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton must have been reading The Daily Mail version of the HMIE report, not the report itself, because the report points to the fact that

"The great majority of pupils took pride in their schools and … were open, courteous and well behaved"

and that

"most schools are succeeding well in maintaining good discipline".

Contrary to what Lord James implies, although we will collect teacher opinion on those matters, when the Tories were in office not so many years ago, they declined to do so. They would not fund a survey in the mid 1990s and it was left to the teacher unions to expose what was happening. We have rectified that problem. We will not hide from the issues that confront our schools; we will face them straight on and provide the resources and support that schools need to be able to tackle challenging situations.

Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP):

Will the minister take the opportunity to pay tribute to the vast majority of pupils, who behave well in school? Will he also acknowledge the low-level, constant, daily disruption that many teachers experience? Does he acknowledge that, like it or not, the Executive's social inclusion and mainstreaming policy, however desirable it is, is having a negative impact? Will he face up to that fact and listen to the teachers' concerns about that issue?

Peter Peacock:

Of course I applaud the vast majority of pupils, who are well-behaved, and the vast majority of teachers, who do a stunningly good job day in, day out in contending with the difficult pupils who cause particular problems in our schools.

Social inclusion is a challenge, but we must dispel the myth that we are somehow importing children from another planet and depositing them in local schools, because the children concerned are local children who are going to their local schools. We want to keep those kids in those schools for as long as we can, because we know that, if we can do that, their life chances will be much greater. If we do not do that effectively, those kids will be condemned to a life in which they are less likely to be in employment, are in poorer health and have poorer housing conditions. That is why social inclusion is important. However, it should not be at any price, which is why we have empowered head teachers to exclude pupils from school whenever that is appropriate. It is also why we are investing in special units in and just beyond our schools so that we can keep our classrooms freer from disruption and our young people learning.


Energy-related Jobs (Transfer)

To ask the Scottish Executive what discussions have taken place with the Department of Trade and Industry in London regarding the transfer of energy-related civil service jobs to Aberdeen. (S2O-5607)

The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Mr Jim Wallace):

Scottish Development International met the Department of Trade and Industry on 8 February 2005 as part of its on-going discussions with a range of United Kingdom Government departments aimed at seeking to attract high-quality jobs and investment to Scotland.

Richard Lochhead:

I ask the Deputy First Minister to meet the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry in London to discuss the transfer of energy-related civil service jobs from London to Aberdeen, as it remains the case that a number of jobs that relate to offshore industry are based in London. Although the 55 jobs concerned were earmarked for relocation to Aberdeen, the DTI took a last-minute decision late last year, despite the fact that it had reserved office space in Aberdeen, to pull the plug on that relocation, to the huge disappointment of the people of Aberdeen and the north-east of Scotland, who want the city to be seen as Europe's energy capital. Will the Deputy First Minister acknowledge that that is a serious issue? Under the Lyons review, those jobs belong to Aberdeen, not London, so will he intervene to ensure that they are transferred as soon as possible?

Mr Wallace:

It is worth putting on record the fact that the DTI currently has 82 energy-related jobs in Aberdeen and 52 in London and that, although the number of staff in London has fallen by around 40 over the past 10 years, there has been no equivalent reduction in jobs in Aberdeen.

Mr Lochhead is misrepresenting the position. The Lyons review considered a number of possibilities. However, the DTI indicated that although the jobs to which Mr Lochhead is referring, along with others in different areas of the DTI, were considered as part of the review, relocation of the energy resources and development unit would not be the best option on the grounds of cost and business efficiency.

Nevertheless SDI continues to hold discussions with a wide range of Government departments on the advantages of locating jobs in Scotland. It should be put on record that the Scottish Executive set up our intermediary technology institute, ITI Energy, in Aberdeen, which brought a number of quality jobs to the city.