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Chamber and committees

Meeting of the Parliament

Meeting date: Thursday, September 30, 2010


Contents


Scottish Executive Question Time


Justice and Law Officers


Scottish Policing Board (Structural Reforms)



1. To ask the Scottish Executive what its position is on the work being undertaken by the Scottish policing board to examine structural reform options. (S3O-11557)

The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)

Papers presented to the last meeting of the Scottish policing board on 13 September by the Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland showed that efficiency savings alone are unlikely to be sufficient to meet the scale of financial challenges beyond 2012-13 and recommended further work to explore other options to release additional savings. I welcome that work, which will be taken forward with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and policing partners, and I look forward to hearing the initial findings at the board’s next meeting on 6 December.

Iain Smith

The cabinet secretary’s actions appear to have prejudged the outcome of that work, in that he has already written to police authorities to instruct them that, given the current context of financial pressures, they should discuss upcoming chief officer vacancies with the Scottish Government before initiating a recruitment process. That effectively gives the cabinet secretary a veto on the appointment of chief police officers.

Does the cabinet secretary think that he has the power to stop police authorities fulfilling their responsibilities to appoint chief police officers? Will he assure us that, before any decisions are taken about any restructuring of police authorities, there will be a full public consultation, with the final decision taken by the Parliament, not the Scottish ministers?

Kenny MacAskill

I do not have that power. The letter to police board conveners points out that it would perhaps be more appropriate to have contracts for periods of three years rather than five years, as has been the norm. My interpretation of the letter is not the same as Mr Smith’s.

We were faced with a report from ACPOS indicating that 25 per cent of police expenditure goes on the eight force headquarters. Given the financial pressures that we face, it is hard to argue that that is sustainable, and the situation requires to be investigated. The Administration has formed no view on the matter but, with the support of the Scottish policing board, we are proceeding to consider it in greater detail. I advise Mr Smith that COSLA gave its approval—and Jenny Dawe was present at the meeting that I attended on Monday.


Methadone (Prisoners)



2. To ask the Scottish Executive what action it is taking to reduce methadone dependence among prisoners. (S3O-11470)

The Minister for Community Safety (Fergus Ewing)

The Scottish Prison Service substance misuse strategy, which was published in July this year, focuses on recovery, in line with Scottish Government policy. One in five prisoners is prescribed methadone, and in the vast majority of those cases—85 per cent—there is a continuity of prescriptions that were initiated in the community. According to the 2009 prisoner survey, 23 per cent of prisoners who are on methadone are on a reducing dose as part of their recovery programme.

Jamie McGrigor

Does the minister think that that percentage is big enough? He will be aware of the recent figures showing that just 157 of the 777 participating prisoners are on a reducing dose. Does he share the widespread concern over the revelation that 80 per cent of the prisoners concerned are essentially being parked on methadone and forgotten about? What action will he take to improve the continual monitoring of prisoners on methadone, with as many of the prisoners as possible given appropriate support to reduce their methadone dosage with a view to coming off methadone altogether?

Fergus Ewing

Methadone is a drug for which there is a very legitimate use, and all the evidence confirms it—that is the fact of the matter.

It is a bit unfair to all the people who work in the Prison Service to say that they are doing nothing to assist people who are “parked on methadone”. That is simply not the case as I see it. I praise the work that has been done at Saughton, for example. I visited the addiction support wing there, which is an eminently sensible initiative. That is one of a wide range of measures that we are taking in conjunction with the Scottish Prison Service to get more prisoners on the road to recovery. I fully support the work that our excellent prison officers and staff are doing in that regard. I hope that all members will back that sentiment.

James Kelly (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab)

Does the minister share my concern about the problem of drug use in prisons, which was highlighted in last week’s report from Her Majesty’s chief inspector of prisons? The report showed that 17.5 per cent of prisoners tested positive for drugs on leaving jail, and came on the back of the revelation that there were 1,800 drug finds in prison, which is clearly a serious concern. What steps is the Government taking to address the situation?

Fergus Ewing

Of course we acknowledge that concern. Indeed, we recently debated the issue thoroughly in an excellent debate, in which there was an acknowledgement across the board of this huge and difficult problem. However, there has not been a recognition of all the work that has been done in prisons. I will refer to some of that work. Last year, the Scottish Prison Service undertook 19,650 tests on 23,122 admissions. I say that to provide a little bit of perspective and to put the other side of the case about the work that is done day and daily by those in our Prison Service who work on the health side, the prison officers and the governors, who are all doing great things. It is very difficult to provide comprehensive treatment for those on short sentences, because there ain’t enough time to provide the structured programme of support that is required. Therefore, the more that people who are currently given short sentences instead do more suitable community payback, the more effectively we will be able to tackle drug addiction problems in Scotland.

Gil Paterson (West of Scotland) (SNP)

In the very informative debate on the Scottish Government’s drugs strategy, the minister outlined the vital role that naloxone plays in saving the lives of heroin addicts. What role does he believe that naloxone can play for prisoners both inside prison and on their release?

Fergus Ewing

Gil Paterson is entirely correct. The Scottish Government is starting with the Scottish prisons naloxone programme. The pilots that preceded the rolling out of that programme showed that there were 55 instances where naloxone—an opiate antidote—was used to bring people back from drug overdoes. That means that potentially 55 lives in Scotland have been saved.

There is a particular risk of overdose for prisoners on their release from prison. That is why we have decided to commence the programme with those in the Scottish Prison Service. I very much appreciated the support across the chamber that I gather we had for that good programme. I am very pleased that the Scottish Government is able to act in that way.


European Convention on Human Rights



3. To ask the Scottish Executive whether it is reviewing any aspect of Scots law in relation to the European convention on human rights. (S3O-11508)

The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)

The ECHR has been incorporated into Scots law, and the Scottish Government therefore takes it into account in considering any possible changes to the law. Any question as to whether a specific provision of Scots law is incompatible with the ECHR would be for the courts to determine.

Will the minister explain why the Lord Advocate has issued guidelines in relation to police questioning of suspects? Does the Scottish Government have any plans to change its programmes in relation to any matter concerning human rights?

Kenny MacAskill

As Ms McNeill may be aware, the position regarding the Lord Advocate’s guidelines goes back to the case of Cadder v HMA, which raises an ECHR matter relating to the case of Salduz. It is a matter of great concern. The difficulty for this Government is that we do not have the protection that other Governments have, whether south of the border or elsewhere, because of the incorporation of the ECHR into the Scotland Act 1998.

The matter is going through the Supreme Court, whose decision we require to accept. No decision has been made yet, but we have to prepare for any eventuality. The Government is taking action in consultation with the Lord Advocate and in conjunction with senior police officers, the Law Society of Scotland and other lawyers’ representatives. We are taking steps to prepare for what the decision might be, which might require emergency legislation. We will discuss that with the members in the chamber and others. At present, the Lord Advocate’s guidelines ensure that we are compatible with the ECHR and with any stricture that might be laid down, and any interpretation that might be given, by the Supreme Court.


Antisocial Behaviour Notices (Landlords)

Sarah Boyack (Edinburgh Central) (Lab)



4. To ask the Scottish Executive what discussions the Minister for Community Safety has had with the Minister for Housing and Communities regarding the introduction of a statutory instrument to ensure that landlords of short-term lets can be issued with an antisocial behaviour notice. (S3O-11485)

The Minister for Community Safety (Fergus Ewing)

I am grateful for Sarah Boyack’s continued interest in that area and the proposals that she discussed with the Minister for Housing and Communities on 2 June. I met the minister on 1 July to discuss those proposals further, and since then I have taken an on-going interest.

As Sarah Boyack is aware, we intend to introduce a Scottish statutory instrument by the end of this session of Parliament that will amend part 7 of the Antisocial Behaviour etc (Scotland) Act 2004 to make it easier for local authorities to issue antisocial behaviour notices to owners of party flats and to bring a case to court with the prospect of a successful verdict.

Sarah Boyack

I welcome the minister’s answer and his acknowledgement of my interest in the issue, but my constituents still suffer the impact of relentless partying and antisocial behaviour while landlords sleep easy at night and rake in the money.

Does the minister agree that, by amending the legislation to target short-term lets, the Parliament will send a clear message to irresponsible landlords that they are not beyond the grasp of the law on antisocial behaviour? Will he reassure us that, in the meantime, he will urge local authorities and agencies to persist in using the tools that are currently available to tackle the problem?

Fergus Ewing

I acknowledge Sarah Boyack’s interest, and I know that Shirley-Anne Somerville and Malcolm Chisholm have also been pursuing the matter. It is a serious issue, and I accept that all existing powers should be used in the way that Sarah Boyack describes.

I am pleased that we are able to act on a cross-party basis to introduce the necessary legal measures to deal with the relatively few, but significant, cases that would benefit from those measures.

Partying in Scotland did not begin in 2007 when the Scottish National Party came to power; it has been part of the warp and weft—as far as I have seen from my limited participation in such events—of Scottish life for some considerable time. We are not, as a party or a Government, anti-party, but we hope that people behave with proper decorum, especially in the capital city.

Question 5 has been withdrawn.


Prisons (North-east Scotland)



6. To ask the Scottish Executive what stage has been reached in its plans to construct HMP Grampian and close Craiginches prison in Aberdeen. (S3O-11483)

The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)

As part of the formal planning process, a pre-application screening notice was submitted in August 2010. Public consultation will take place with community groups on 20 October and an open public presentation will be made on 21 October.

The Scottish Prison Service aims to submit an application for planning permission in principle in November 2010 and, subject to securing that permission, it anticipates awarding a construction contract in around 2011, with a view to opening the new prison in 2014. HMP Aberdeen will close following the opening of HMP Grampian.

Richard Baker

According to reports, 150 prisoners from Peterhead prison are being moved to Glenochil prison. Why is that happening now, when planning permission has not yet been granted for HMP Grampian, which—as the cabinet secretary said—is not due for completion until 2014?

What consultation—not only with prison authorities, but with other interested parties, such as prison visiting committees—took place on that decision, particularly given that the plans include the flawed proposal to close Craiginches prison?

Kenny MacAskill

There are two aspects to what is happening: the Peterhead aspect and the Aberdeen aspect. I will deal with the Peterhead aspect first.

The plans concern operational matters, and the SPS must ensure the safety of prisoners and the security of the staff who work with them. It is appropriate that steps are taken to wind down Peterhead prison; it would be inappropriate to leave that to the very last moment.

Given the nature of the offenders involved—the prison houses serious sex offenders, who are some of the most dangerous offenders in Scotland—the matter is better dealt with operationally by the SPS than by any other body. It is appropriate that the SPS begins the process early to ensure the security of staff and prisoners, and of the communities in which the prisoners are placed.

I make no apology for saying that the plans are an operational matter for the SPS, but I can tell members that the SPS discussed the plans with me, and I fully support them.

On Craiginches prison, we hear Richard Baker yet again requesting a spending commitment. We can build as many prisons as he likes, but if we do so we cannot build houses, hospitals and schools. The Government’s priority is to replace Peterhead and Aberdeen prisons with HMP Grampian. Beyond that, we will look after honest, law-abiding citizens and deal with their needs.

Given the successful partial relocation of some women offenders back to Craiginches prison, is it not more important that we now have a community prison that serves all types of prisoners in the north-east?

Kenny MacAskill

Absolutely. I welcomed the invitation from the governor of Craiginches to meet some of the women prisoners who were on training for freedom to try to break the cycle of reoffending that so blights Scotland. The whole purpose of HMP Grampian is to have a community-facing prison so that women are not uniformly sent to Cornton Vale and young offenders to Polmont and to ensure that those who have to be incarcerated because of the offences that they have committed and the danger that they pose are located closer to their communities and families in an attempt to break the cycle of reoffending. We all know that what breaks that cycle for offenders is, in the main, having the opportunity to go back to a home, maintain contact with family and reintegrate into the community that they left.

The cabinet secretary said that he expected the contract to be awarded in around 2011. Can he be more specific?

Kenny MacAskill

No, I cannot. Awarding contracts usually means going through formal tendering procedures. It would be entirely inappropriate for the Cabinet Secretary for Justice to go into quasi-legal and commercial matters that are best dealt with under planning and commercial contracts legislation.


Open Prisons



7. To ask the Scottish Executive what action it is taking to ensure that best use is made of the open prison estate. (S3O-11548)

The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)

Scottish Prison Service staff in the closed and open estate work closely together to ensure that all those prisoners who meet the criteria for open conditions and who would benefit from the open estate regime are located there at the most appropriate point of their sentence.

Robert Brown

Earlier, the cabinet secretary mentioned training for freedom. Does he accept that we are now in a rather unhelpful and wasteful situation in which the open estate, which is very much focused on training for freedom, is operating at about 60 per cent capacity whereas the closed estate remains substantially overcrowded? Given that most of the prisoners in the closed estate will be released at some point, does the cabinet secretary agree that the underuse of the open estate might result in greater risk to the public from prisoners who have committed serious crimes being released direct from the closed estate? Will he have a fresh look at the issue across the whole estate and take account of all the risks to the public?

Kenny MacAskill

I accept the spirit in which Mr Brown asks his question. We all recognise that there is underuse, and the figure of 60 per cent is correct. However, I think that the situation is the result of the Scottish Prison Service being a victim of its own success. Quite correctly, procedures have been tightened up. When I had to stand in this chamber and make a statement about Robert Foy, everyone was extremely concerned about which categories of prisoner were held in the open estate. It is not a question of the underuse of the open estate; it is a question of its appropriate use. We would like more use to be made of the open estate because when there is undercapacity it is clear that we are not getting the best benefit from it.

I think that Mr Brown will agree that we all learned from the consequences of the Robert Foy case. We have to ensure that prisoners who go to the open estate are capable of meeting the criteria. We cannot guarantee the safety, security or law-abiding actions of all such prisoners, but we must recognise that the criteria have been brought in to try to ensure public safety, and I do not think that they should be varied or reduced. If the Scottish Prison Service can increase the use of the open estate but keep the criteria to preserve public safety, I will be more than happy. I give an assurance that the matter is under constant review by the Scottish Prison Service. We welcome Mr Brown’s support for the open estate but, as I said, we have to recognise that the criteria have been correctly tightened for reasons of public safety.

Will the cabinet secretary comment further on the success of the reforms in cutting the number of abscondees?

Kenny MacAskill

There has been significant success, which again comes down to the action taken by the Scottish Prison Service. The Robert Foy incident was horrendous for the victim and the community and we had to take action. A review was requested, and it was carried out by Professor Alec Spencer.

I return to the point that I made to Robert Brown: to some extent, underuse is perhaps a perverse result of the Scottish Prison Service’s success in reducing the number of absconds. That has come at a price, in that fewer people are going to the open estate. The reason for that is that people are not meeting the criteria, because it does not look as if they can be trusted, and public safety must be paramount. I welcome the results on absconds, although they have come at that price, and I assure the member that the Scottish Prison Service has always acted in such a way as to ensure that public safety is paramount.

Question 8 has been withdrawn.


Court Processes



9. To ask the Scottish Executive what steps are being taken to make court processes more efficient and better serve the needs of the victims of crime. (S3O-11499)

The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)

Reforms of the High Court and summary justice have resulted in faster justice and many victims being spared the stress of giving evidence. A review of sheriff and jury procedures was recently completed by Sheriff Principal Bowen, who made proposals for achieving similar benefits. Although good progress has been made, there is scope to improve efficiency and effectiveness in the summary courts, and work is going on at national and local level.

The Government has also delivered higher police numbers, a falling crime rate and record investment in support services for victims and witnesses.

Johann Lamont

I think that from time to time all members meet constituents who have horrific stories to tell about their experiences in court as victims, when they felt that they were treated with a lack of compassion and a lack of understanding of their experience and interests. Such people have a strong feeling that nobody stands with them in court. I acknowledge that work has been done in the past in that regard.

The minister is perhaps aware of the case of my constituents the Porterfield family, who have described a catalogue of incidents that left them distraught and with no faith in the justice system. Will the minister agree to meet my constituents with me, so that by hearing about their experience he and the Parliament can ensure that the rights of victims are placed at the centre of the justice system and are not marginal to it?

Kenny MacAskill

I assure the member that that has always been the Government’s direction of travel. We supported such an approach when we were in opposition. The issue cannot be tackled in one legislative measure; it is about changing not just laws but culture and attitudes. The Lord Advocate deserves great credit for her service to the current Administration and the previous Administration in that regard.

I cannot comment on a particular case but I am happy to assure the member that I will investigate the matter. If it is appropriate for us to meet, I will be happy to do so.


Rural Affairs and the Environment


Waste (North-east Scotland)



1. To ask the Scottish Executive what progress has been made in diverting waste from landfill in the north-east. (S3O-11503)

The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and the Environment (Richard Lochhead)

Progress continues to be made in diverting waste from landfill in the north-east. For instance, two in-vessel composting facilities have recently opened, with the support of the Scottish Government and zero waste Scotland. Together with existing facilities, the new composting facilities divert food, garden and other organic waste from landfill, reducing climate change impacts, producing fertiliser or soil additives that are used on local farms and, in the case of anaerobic digestion, producing a biogas that can be used for renewable energy.

Lewis Macdonald

Can the cabinet secretary confirm that he has had to suspend the provisions that would have resulted in fines on Aberdeen City Council for failing to meet its diversion targets? Will he confirm that he does not intend to impose the fines retrospectively? Will he say what steps he has taken, as the responsible minister, to ensure that the council does not again find itself in the position of failing to meet its targets on diversion of waste from landfill?

Richard Lochhead

We agreed with all councils in Scotland that the penalties would be suspended, not cancelled, in the light of the need to work closely together during the next few years, as we have done in the past few years, to achieve Scotland’s national targets.

We warmly welcome Aberdeen City Council’s recently published waste strategy, which sets out many ambitious targets. I hope that the member agrees that it represents a big step forward. We must all work together to ensure that we go down the road towards a zero waste society.

Maureen Watt (North East Scotland) (SNP)

Will the cabinet secretary join me in congratulating Keenan (Recycling) Ltd on its work in diverting food waste from landfill by picking it up from major oil companies, other firms and hotels and restaurants in Aberdeen and throughout the north-east? What steps does he think can be taken to increase the amount of food waste that can be diverted from landfill?

Richard Lochhead

I join the member in congratulating Keenan (Recycling), which has started commercial food waste collection in Aberdeen. That is a major step forward in collecting relevant waste from the commercial sector for recycling and getting the benefits that I talked about in my response to Lewis Macdonald.

With regard to the larger issue of food waste, I launched this week Scotland’s biggest anaerobic digester at Deerdykes in Cumbernauld, which will take 30,000 tonnes of food waste from that part of Scotland and beyond, from the national health service, local supermarkets, hotels and so on. It is great to see such progress in relation to tackling food waste, which is something that costs us all money and comes at a cost to the environment as well. We should get benefits from it and not treat it as waste. Of course, the Government’s zero waste plan will roll forward more plans for segregated collection of food waste from homes and businesses in the years ahead.

Question 2 was not lodged.


Flooding (Inverclyde)



3. To ask the Scottish Executive how it will ensure that effective action is taken to address the recurring flooding problems in the Inverclyde area. (S3O-11507)

The Minister for Environment (Roseanna Cunningham)

Through the Flood Risk Management (Scotland) Act 2009, the Scottish Government has introduced a more sustainable and modern approach to flood risk management, suited to the needs of the 21st century and to the impact of climate change. The act provides the framework within which Inverclyde Council, the Scottish Environment Protection Agency and Scottish Water, working together, have duties to assess, map and act to reduce flood risk in Inverclyde. I am sure that no council would wish to be in breach of that duty.

Duncan McNeil

The Scottish Government’s contribution to the Inverclyde flood action plan for 2010-11 is just £60,000, compared with the £500,000 that Inverclyde Council has allocated from its own reserves. Although there is an IOU for more funding—whatever that means, in these times—from 2012 onwards, a conservative estimate is that the cost of dealing with Inverclyde flooding would be nearer £10 million. Given that SEPA has acknowledged that special recognition should be given to coastal communities such as Inverclyde, what progress has been made in ensuring that increased and appropriate funding is made available to the Inverclyde area and others?

Roseanna Cunningham

Duncan McNeil will be well aware that the arrangements for ensuring that flood protection money was made available to councils changed after 2007. I am surprised that he wants to go into this area because, from 1999 to 2007, an average of only £5.5 million a year was spent on flooding, but in 2007-08, that sum rose to £32.4 million and, in 2008-10, the figure was £42 million.

Each of the local authorities was given an allocation that was in line with what they considered to be appropriate to pitch for at the time. It might well be that the Inverclyde proportion of that has now had to be reassessed. That reassessment will, of course, be taken into account in any future budget discussions.

Stuart McMillan (West of Scotland) (SNP)

The minister is well aware of my long-standing interest in flooding in Inverclyde. Can she provide any guidance to the council’s current Labour-Conservative-independent administration that would force it into action, as opposed to the decades of inaction on the part of that administration and previous ones?

Roseanna Cunningham

I am well aware of Stuart McMillan’s long-standing interest in the matter and, at his invitation, I visited the area last year to see the difficult problems that were beginning to be experienced. I hope that all local authorities will carefully examine the new duties that they must now comply with. It might be that many local authorities must bring themselves up to speed with regard to their understanding of the implications of the new legislation. It is difficult to see how much more any Government can do. The hammer of legislation is now in place and councils’ duties are clear. I hope that no council—Inverclyde included—will wilfully ignore what it is now required to do.

I call John Scott. Mr Scott, I remind you that this question is about Inverclyde.

John Scott (Ayr) (Con)

The minister will be aware that the flooding problems of Inverclyde also similarly occur in several residential areas of Prestwick, particularly around Grangemuir Road, with repeated discharges of raw sewage onto streets and footpaths. However, Scottish Water, whose liability this is, is not currently funded to deal with external sewerage flooding. Will the minister consider what steps can be taken to deal with this situation in my constituency and, indeed, in Inverclyde, and with similar situations across Scotland, so that Prestwick residents and others no longer have to put up with raw sewage being discharged onto their streets?

Good try. It is just as well that I am in a good mood.

Roseanna Cunningham

I congratulate John Scott on his good try. In fairness to him and to other members, I say that there is increasing awareness that pluvial flooding, as well as fluvial flooding, can bring major difficulties. Scottish Water is aware that it has to address many of its responsibilities in respect of the sewerage system, which can cause problems—it has done so in many constituencies, including mine—that might not otherwise exist. We are actively addressing the issue and I hope that John Scott will not be disappointed in the future.


Scottish Food and Drink



4. To ask the Scottish Executive what action it is taking to promote Scottish food and drink. (S3O-11497)

The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and the Environment (Richard Lochhead)

The Scottish Government has launched Scotland’s national food and drink policy, through which we will work with a range of stakeholders including Scotland Food & Drink Ltd, our enterprise bodies, Scottish Development International and VisitScotland to grow Scotland’s reputation as a land of food and drink.

James Kelly

Will the cabinet secretary join me in welcoming the recent announcement of 100 extra jobs at Vion Food Scotland Ltd’s food processing plant in Cambuslang? It is a tremendous tribute to the workforce and the team that Vion put in that they have turned around the situation in which 144 jobs were lost last year. The announcement builds a tremendous platform, not only for Cambuslang, but for the wider Scottish economy.

Richard Lochhead

I join the member in warmly welcoming the additional jobs at the Vion food processing plant in Cambuslang. I also join him in paying tribute to the workforce, who have put some uncertainty behind them and turned it into good news. It is a sign of the confidence in Scotland’s food sector, and particularly the meat processing sector, not only in the member’s constituency but elsewhere, given that Vion has also provided good news in Coupar Angus, where it has a significant workforce. I also pay tribute to all the agencies that have been involved and point out that the Scottish Government has worked closely with the company in recent months and years. I am glad to see that its heavy investment in Scotland is paying dividends.

I will turn to Scotland’s fish. What discussions has the cabinet secretary had with the European Commission and the United Kingdom Government on the mackerel dispute with Iceland and the Faroe Islands?

Richard Lochhead

The member raises an important issue for the future of many fishing communities in Scotland. The mackerel fishery is Scotland’s most valuable fishery, which is why the Scottish Government is working with the UK and other member states in Europe and treating the issue very seriously. The fact that the Icelanders and the Faroese have set no quotas poses a significant risk to a stock that has been sustainably managed for the past 10 years.

I requested to speak at the European fisheries council on Monday, when the matter was discussed at the Commission’s request to find out the latest views from member states on future tactics, and we made our position clear. We were grateful to have the opportunity at long last to sit at the top table at the fisheries council to put the case on behalf of the Scottish industry. That case is clear: we must not reward irresponsible behaviour, we must ensure that those countries come back to the negotiating table, and we must get a fair and equitable deal.


Waste Processing Facilities



5. To ask the Scottish Executive what discussions it has had with local authorities regarding the joint commissioning of waste processing facilities. (S3O-11547)

The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and the Environment (Richard Lochhead)

The Scottish Government has met a number of local authorities that are involved in the joint procurement of waste treatment facilities. The Scottish Futures Trust and zero waste Scotland, which provides expert advice and assistance on a number of waste issues on behalf of the Scottish Government, also regularly meet local authorities to discuss joint working and procurement matters.

John Wilson

The cabinet secretary said in his answer to an earlier question that he was at the official opening of the Deerdykes facility in Cumbernauld, which is in Central Scotland. I was also present at the opening of the facility, which is Scotland’s largest organic recycling facility. Does the minister agree that, with a view to meeting the targets that are outlined in the zero waste plan, greater co-operation is needed between local authorities and public bodies if we are to deal with waste appropriately, as is the case at the Deerdykes facility, which not only processes garden waste and waste food but converts it to usable green energy and heat?

Richard Lochhead

I certainly hope that the fantastic project that was opened in Cumbernauld will be replicated throughout Scotland. That would play a major role in taking Scotland down the zero waste road.

I was delighted to see John Wilson at the official opening at the Deerdykes facility. He has made a good point: all kinds of agencies were represented there. It is important that local authorities were there too, and we must remember that we are talking about a Scottish Water project. By working together across the board, the public sector—local government, Scottish Water and other public agencies—can certainly move Scotland forward in that regard.

Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab)

I presume that the cabinet secretary will be aware that the Scottish Futures Trust considers that much more investment is required in Scotland to meet waste management needs over the next 10 years. Does he agree that it would be better for Government to provide waste processing facilities directly, which would allow emphasis to be placed on local environmental justice, than to allow private profiteers to enrich themselves to the detriment of our communities?

Richard Lochhead

I am not sure whether the member is living in a parallel universe. She may be aware that the UK Government is about to impose massive budget cuts in Scotland, which we are doing our best to resist. It would be helpful to have her support in that—I am sure that she will provide it—so that, in the future, the capital funds are available, for local authorities in particular, to fund waste treatment facilities.

Of course the private sector must play a role. We are talking about a requirement for billions of pounds of investment in the coming years. I think—I am sure that many members will agree—that taking Scotland down the zero waste road is extremely important and takes priority. We need the private and public sectors to play a role. If Elaine Smith thinks that the funds will be available from the public purse to pay for all the facilities that are required to protect Scotland’s environment, I am afraid that she is not on the same planet as I am.


Milk Prices



6. To ask the Scottish Executive what is being done to ensure that dairy farmers receive a fair price for their milk. (S3O-11564)

The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and the Environment (Richard Lochhead)

Dairy farmers deserve a fair price for their milk. The Scottish Government is holding a further dairy summit in November and has supported dairy farmers with over £13 million of funding since 2007. In addition, Scottish dairy farmers have received £2.5 million from the European Union dairy fund in the past year to help those who have been severely affected by changes in demand and prices over the past year. Dairy prices are, of course, set by the market, and competition law prevents the Government from being involved directly. It is up to an individual milk producer to discuss pricing arrangements with its registered milk purchaser.

Mary Scanlon

I thank the cabinet secretary for his response. In 1998, there were 43 milk producers in the Highlands and Moray. Today, there are just 11. There is no doubt that dairy farmers in that area and across Scotland need a fairer price for their milk to ensure survival.

Does the cabinet secretary agree with the chair of NFU Scotland’s milk committee that a greater share of the sale price should be passed back to our dairy farmers? Although I appreciate what has already been done, there seems to be an incredible amount of dissatisfaction in the sector. What will the cabinet secretary be doing in addition to what has already been done?

Richard Lochhead

The member has made a number of good points. It certainly appears to be the case that retailers’ competition for market share is being funded to a degree by the low prices that are paid to producers. That is wholly unacceptable for the sustainability of the dairy sector in Scotland. It is vital that dairy farmers get a fair share of every pound that is spent on milk.

Milk is an extremely healthy product, but a situation in which the supermarkets, through competing with each other and other retailers, sell milk for less than the price of water is not healthy. Quite clearly, it is untenable and unsustainable for milk producers to be paid less than the cost of production for their product. I hope that retailers and others who are involved in the supply chain are listening closely to the views that are being expressed by MSPs and the Parliament.


Green Cities



7. To ask the Scottish Government what progress has been made in encouraging the growth of green cities. (S3O-11545)

The Minister for Environment (Roseanna Cunningham)

We are working with other organisations in a range of policy areas to encourage changes to our cities to make them greener places. Examples include the sustainable Glasgow project, which proposes a range of initiatives to reduce the city’s carbon emissions and includes the creation of urban woodland on vacant land. Another is the central Scotland green network, which aims to achieve a step change in environmental quality in and around the cities and towns of the central belt. It is one of the largest green network initiatives, if not the largest, in Europe.

Sandra White

I thank the minister for her extremely comprehensive reply, in which she mentioned various projects. She will be aware of the project called grow your own in Glasgow—in particular, in the Anderston and Partick areas—which encourages local communities to take ownership of derelict land to create gardens and allotments that can be enjoyed by all residents. Will that project be included in the green network? Will she consider visiting it?

Roseanna Cunningham

I am happy to visit any such project anywhere, including in Glasgow. In the near future, I will be in Drumchapel in Glasgow to look at some similar initiatives. I am aware of the project that the member mentioned. There are a great many such opportunities in cities, including Glasgow. They are extraordinarily important in bringing people to an understanding that green issues are not confined to rural Scotland but are part and parcel of urban Scotland, too. The people who run the project that Sandra White mentioned should get in touch with the CSGN, as they might find an open door and a willing ear to listen to what is happening in the inner city in Glasgow.

Question 8 was not lodged.


Portencross Coast Site of Special Scientific Interest



9. To ask the Scottish Executive when the renotification process for the Portencross coast site of special scientific interest will take place. (S3O-11549)

The Minister for Environment (Roseanna Cunningham)

Scottish Natural Heritage has advised that it intends to await the outcome of the application by Ayrshire Power Ltd at Hunterston before it considers the renotification of the Portencross coast site of special scientific interest. However, SNH will review the position if the application is withdrawn or delayed significantly.

Ross Finnie

The difficulty with SNH’s current position is that the public are entitled to know what are the boundaries of the SSSI that SNH, as the relevant statutory body, seeks to protect. SNH has not disclosed what the boundaries might be after the renotification, but it is nonetheless prepared to enter negotiations with a private developer and to disclose to it what the boundaries might be. I believe that to be unsatisfactory and not in the public interest.

Roseanna Cunningham

I would be in a slightly difficult position if I got into too open a discussion about what might be a commercial conversation—especially about just one half of the conversation that is being referred to. There is an existing SSSI, and the renotification does not change the duty to protect it. I take on board Ross Finnie’s point about the currently available information on the existing boundaries. I cannot answer the question whether those boundaries would change under renotification, but I will have a conversation with Mr Finnie to discuss the issue further, because there might be a way in which I can help to get that information.

I will call question 10 if the minister and the member are very brief.


Johne’s Disease



10. To ask the Scottish Executive what action it is taking to combat Johne’s disease in cattle. (S3O-11525)

The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and the Environment (Richard Lochhead)

The Scottish Government contributed £0.25 million to a United Kingdom prevalence study, which reported in 2009 that Johne’s was present in around a third of UK dairy herds.

We are taking a number of other actions, which I will not describe right now.

I will be brief. Farmers in the north-east are facing problems tackling Johne’s disease and bovine viral diarrhoea. What input may farmers in the north-east make to the activities that are going on?

Richard Lochhead

We have a range of inputs from farmers in the north-east and throughout Scotland on tackling Johne’s disease, which costs the industry a great deal of money—a cost that could be avoided—and other animal diseases. That is certainly one way in which to increase profitability and to address other issues in the livestock sector in Scotland. I assure the member that the farming industry is working hand in hand with the Government on the issues.