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Chamber and committees

Plenary, 19 Sep 2002

Meeting date: Thursday, September 19, 2002


Contents


Question Time


SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE


Physical Education (Student Places)

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it plans to increase the number of physical education student places. (S1O-5582)

The number of physical education students in Scotland has been rising. In 1997-98, the figure for the number of students undertaking PE teacher training was 274. In 2000-01, the number was 352 and the figure for the current session is 382.

Ms MacDonald:

I thank the minister and inform him that I spoke to the director of physical education at the University of Edinburgh this morning. He assured me that, if the minister can talk turkey to his friend the Minister for Finance and Public Services about assistance for the University of Edinburgh, the best thing that the minister could do, given the recent reports on the poor health standards of Scottish schoolchildren, is to allow the university to introduce a greater number of places particularly for teachers who wish to specialise in physical education at primary school level. If he decides that that might be a reasonable course of action, perhaps he will refer it to the physical education review group. At the same time—

Order. The member must be brief.

Will the minister also review the curriculum needs in schools?

Nicol Stephen:

I am happy to do that. The PE review group, which I chair, is examining those issues. The Executive has ambitious proposals to improve the physical activity of young people. Those plans include the physical education that is offered in our schools in the widest sense. We are talking not only about the school curriculum but about what happens to children before school, in break time, playtime, lunch time and at the end of the school day. The PE review group will examine all those issues. I am pleased to offer to take Margo MacDonald's proposals to the review group.

Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab):

When the Scottish Parliament sat in Aberdeen prior to the recess, the minister said that he would report progress on enabling University of Stirling education students to join the teacher induction scheme. Will the minister give us that progress report and say what is to happen to the final-year students when they finish in January 2003?

Nicol Stephen:

Those students are not physical education students but, as they are teaching students, I am happy to give an update. We will shortly write to the local authorities to find the most appropriate ways forward to support those students. The position is one that is well understood by ministers. We are determined to take action to assist the students.

Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con):

Does the minister agree that not only does health education benefit our young people, it offers commercial benefits if PE students are educated to a standard that makes them suitable to meet the commercial needs of private gymnasiums? The public is taking a growing interest in keeping healthy by using such gyms.

Nicol Stephen:

My top priority is to ensure that we have adequate numbers of PE students for our schools. It is a concern that not all the 100 students who enter Moray House School of Education each year graduate. There is also a fall-off in the number of students who go forward into teaching. If we have ambitious plans for our young people, I want as many of those PE graduates as possible going into the teaching profession. We have ambitious plans to expand in that area. The private sector can find ways to look after itself.


Prescriptions (Electronic Transfer)

To ask the Scottish Executive what action it is taking in order to extend the use of electronic prescribing between general practitioners and pharmacies. (S1O-5563)

A Scottish pilot scheme for the electronic transmission of prescriptions is under way in Ayrshire and Arran.

Irene Oldfather:

I welcome that initiative in my area. However, the minister will be aware that the initiative involves the transfer of sensitive data from general practices to pharmacies. Can he assure me that adequate safeguards will be put in place to ensure that patient information will be dealt with in strictest confidence at all times?

Mr McAveety:

I give that assurance. The pilot provides controlled access only to approved national health service parties by means of secure systems and agreed protocols. If anyone is concerned about procedure and confidentiality, they have no need to be alarmed.


Children's Panels

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will consider enhancing the role of children's panels in youth justice. (S1O-5599)

The Minister for Education and Young People (Cathy Jamieson):

As part of the Executive's action plan on youth crime, specialist hearings will be piloted with the aim of bringing persistent young offenders to hearings more quickly and ensuring that they are involved in programmes that will tackle their offending behaviour.

Several children's panels are worried that the youth courts will undermine them. Will the minister give us a commitment to children's hearings?

Cathy Jamieson:

I am happy to give such a commitment. I have made it clear in my discussions with local authorities, members of children's panels, the Scottish Children's Reporters Administration and others that I want to build on the strengths of the children's hearings system and address any weaknesses. That means that we must improve the system. I believe that what we propose to do, with the specialist children's hearings running alongside the youth courts, will strengthen the system and have better outcomes for young people and local communities.

Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP):

Will the minister explain why there is an upper age limit of 60 for those applying to serve on children's panels? Does she agree that such age discrimination is not only unfair but absurd because it disqualifies many people who are ready, willing and able to serve and who are ideally suited for the task through acquired knowledge, experience and wisdom?

Cathy Jamieson:

I am aware of Adam Ingram's interest in that matter because he has written to me about it. It is worth pointing out that there is no upper age limit in statute. When the children's hearings system was set up, it was intended that children's panels would be made up of people from local communities who would be representative of those communities. It is important to have a range of people and ages and to have a gender balance.

I have raised the issue to which Adam Ingram referred. I will write to him with a full explanation in due course. However, it is important to recognise that we recently launched a recruitment campaign for children's panel members and I hope that all members will support that.

John Young (West of Scotland) (Con):

The minister gave assurances on gender balance. I would go along with that. Does she not think that an age balance should also come into being? I remind her that after Colonel John Glenn resigned from the United States Senate, he went once more into space as an astronaut at the age of 77. In addition, two former Wimbledon champions from France played a tennis match in the 1990s when both were over 89 years of age and it was a credible match. Further, a boxer fought for the world heavyweight championship at the age of 45.

Order. The member is giving me ideas.

Could the minister give a firm assurance that there will be no ageism? We do not want it spreading into the Scottish Parliament.

Cathy Jamieson:

I am tempted to say that some of my colleagues are saying that the idea of John Young going to the moon is an attractive option and that they would be willing to support him in his desire.

However, I take on board the points that John Young made. I want a children's hearings system that represents local communities. We must ensure that we get a range of ages and experience. If members know of people in their communities who could serve on the children's panel advisory committees, which is an important job that is often overlooked, I urge them to encourage such people to get involved as that will help us to deliver our objectives in the youth justice system.


Executive Priorities

To ask the Scottish Executive what desired outcome is currently its greatest priority in focusing its policies. (S1O-5567)

The Minister for Finance and Public Services (Mr Andy Kerr):

As the chamber heard in some detail last week, the Scottish Executive is committed to improving the lives of the people of Scotland, focusing on growth and opportunities. Our spending review has laid out how we intend to build a better Scotland.

Andrew Wilson:

As we know, the Government is fond of targets. However, does the minister recognise that the entire Scottish post-war experience has been one of economic underperformance, migration, population decline and life-expectancy figures and living standards that, despite our potential, lag far behind where they should be? Does he recognise that the critical outcome that drives all those factors is the health and performance of our economy? Economic growth is of central importance to the quality of our lives and our public services. Why is it that the one thing for which a target is not set at the heart of Government—economic growth—is the one thing that truly counts?

Mr Kerr:

I almost heard the funeral march playing in the background as Andrew Wilson spoke.

The Scottish Executive is focused on creating opportunities for economic growth. There is a target for economic growth and it is contained in the document "A Smart, Successful Scotland", which Andrew Wilson should read.

What Andrew Wilson said about the brain drain and Scotland's economic growth in comparison to the rest of the UK over the past 30 years is simply untrue. We have set what we think are challenging targets. Last week, I briefed a full meeting of the business community, consisting of representatives of all the organisations that represent Scottish business. They gave a sound and warm welcome to the commitments made by the Scottish Executive for growth in the Scottish economy.

Rhona Brankin (Midlothian) (Lab):

Does the minister agree that a successful Scotland is one with a modern economy based on science and skills? Does he further agree that we do not want Scotland to be wrenched out of the UK and left totally dependent on the price of one commodity, namely oil, which is what the SNP advocates?

Mr Kerr:

That would be sad for the Scottish nation. The top priority of the SNP is not economic growth and opportunity but constitutional change in the UK. It is interested in secession and settlement issues and the ownership of assets rather than in building a strong and growing economy or investing in public services as the Scottish Executive wants to do. Its focus is the wrong focus and I am sure that the people of Scotland will endorse that view.

Does the minister agree that a welcome target for the business community would be the restoration of uniform business rates? Why is the Scottish Executive hostile to that?

Mr Kerr:

As I said last week, and have consistently said to the business community in Scotland, I do not share the view that is expressed by Annabel Goldie. We do not have a uniform business rate in terms of the rate poundage but it is uniform in terms of the tax take, which we take in relative terms from north and south of the border. Rates revaluations are at different levels on either side of the border. Property prices are different on either side of the border. Our business rate poundage reflects that difference and the tax take is exactly the same. Indeed, the tax take is the same as it has been since 1995.


Demolition (Public Safety)

To ask the Scottish Executive what consideration it gives to public safety issues when determining applications for listed building consent to demolish historic buildings that are in an unsafe condition and uneconomic to repair. (S1O-5562)

The Deputy Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport (Dr Elaine Murray):

Before I answer the question, I would like to welcome, in my ministerial capacity, Scotland's junior chess champions, who are in the gallery this afternoon.

Scottish Executive policy on the demolition of listed buildings is that no worthwhile building should be lost to our historic environment unless it can be demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt that every effort has been made by all concerned to find practical ways of keeping it. When reviewing proposals to demolish in the light of this policy, consideration is always given to matters of public safety and, where this is an issue, arrangements can be made for interim protective measures to be put in place if a decision on the application may be delayed. Where public safety is a matter of extreme concern, there are powers under the Building (Scotland) Act 1959 for building control authorities to take immediate action to make safe or demolish the building in question.

Murdo Fraser:

I thank the minister for her thorough reply and echo her comments about the Scottish chess champions who, Keith Harding tells me, soundly thrashed their MSP opponents.

The minister has been in correspondence with me over the case of my constituent David Walter, owner of Balthayock House outside Perth, who has been refused permission to demolish the house despite the safety risks. As the minister's advice was that Mr Walter should sell the house and as the estimated cost of repair is put at £2.3 million against a likely market value when restored of £750,000, what sort of person does the minister think is likely to want to buy that house?

Andy Kerr. [Laughter.]

Dr Murray:

I will not make the obvious response to that.

The member has raised the matter in writing with me and he will be aware that the reporter on the inquiry when the application was called in found that there had been no attempt to sell the property at a marketable value. One of the reports taken for the purposes of the inquiry did not agree that there was a real risk to the building. If the constituent feels that that is not correct, it is open to him to go to Perth and Kinross Council for a second opinion. If he finds that the second opinion indicates that the building is dangerous, he can return the matter to the Executive.

Why is Historic Scotland intent on forcing people to preserve buildings as ruins when local people would prefer to see them restored and of some use to the community, such as is the case with Castle Tioram?

Dr Murray:

I am well aware of the member's interest in Castle Tioram and the controversy surrounding that issue. Rhoda Grant will be aware that the applicants have lodged an appeal on a point of law. That went to the Court of Session on 22 March and a date has not yet been set for the appeal. I am not able to comment on that particular case as it is within the legal process.

That was a very narrow question, so we will move on to question 6.


Aberdeen Football Club (Planning Application)

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will hold a public inquiry into the planning application from Aberdeen Football Club to build a new stadium and other facilities on a greenbelt site in Kingswells. (S1O-5597)

The application is being dealt with by my colleague Hugh Henry. I know that he is fully aware of the complexities and details of the case. A decision will be announced soon and it would therefore not be appropriate for me to comment further.

Mr Rumbles:

Is the minister aware of the huge public concern in the north-east and the loss of confidence in the decision-making process of Aberdeen City Council? Does she agree that there is a need to call an independent public inquiry soon to restore confidence in the independence and propriety of the system?

I can only repeat that we are aware of the complexities and details of the case. A decision will be announced soon.

Brian Adam (North-East Scotland) (SNP):

Is the minister aware of the great concern about the conduct of planning matters, in respect not just of the new stadium, but also of the local plan? Will she advise her colleague that many of us would like a public inquiry dealing with all the matters of concern in the Aberdeen area with regard to planning in recent times? Will she it bear in mind that we seek a rapid decision, irrespective of what it is, so that we can remove the planning blight and go ahead with getting the application dealt with for the 2008 football tournament?

Ms Curran:

I am sure that Brian Adam and other members are aware that there are rigorous criteria associated with planning processes. We are fully aware of those. I assure members that we follow closely the criteria and processes that we are duty bound to go through. The same will apply in the Aberdeen case.

Alex Johnstone (North-East Scotland) (Con):

Last week, I held a surgery in Kingswells, which will be affected by the application. The nature of the representations that I received indicates that there is an intense desire for a public inquiry. One lady who visited my surgery was moved to tears over the proximity of the proposed development to the crematorium. For that reason, I emphasise how emotive the subject is and how essential it is that all views are taken into account.

I assure the chamber that any decision that we take on planning matters will adhere strictly to planning criteria. We are fully aware of the complexities and details of the case. A decision will be announced soon.


Deepwater Fisheries

To ask the Scottish Executive what steps are being taken to protect the interests of any deepwater fishermen whose livelihoods have been jeopardised by recent decisions of the European Union Fisheries Council. (S1O-5561)

The Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Ross Finnie):

The European Council of Ministers will not formally adopt the regulation agreed on 11 June until it has the opinion of the European Parliament. In the meantime, as I said last week—and as I also said in response to the same question from Richard Lochhead at the Rural Development Committee—we have written to the European Commission and asked it to consider our views on the matter. We have also asked it to consider the views of our fishing industry, which has written to it about the matter, alongside the views of the European Parliament.

Richard Lochhead:

I thank the minister for his answer. Many deepwater fishermen have contacted me in recent weeks. They are utterly disillusioned and at their wits' end following Europe's decision to lock them out of their own back yard to the benefit of foreign fleets and to impose a management regime that will endanger the future of deepwater stocks. Will the minister give a commitment to raise the issue at next week's fisheries council and stand up for Scotland? Will he also indicate what steps he is taking to manage the displacement of fishing capacity that will arise if the regulation is not reversed in the near future?

Ross Finnie:

I have indicated that we will raise the matter at the appropriate moment. We are trying to persuade the Commission that the decision was wrong. I will be at the fisheries council and I will be alive and alert if the matter comes on to the agenda. I cannot see the point of raising a point that is going to come with the opinion. I have asked the council to take account of the letter that has been written to it and it will do that, either in September or October. When it does, we will raise the issue because I am quite clear that the decision was wrong.

However, the decision was taken by the majority of council members. No matter how unfortunate the decision was, one cannot entirely ignore the democratic basis on which it was made.

Tavish Scott (Shetland) (LD):

Does the minister accept that when the fisheries council next meets, it is important to resist the advances made by the friends of fishing campaign on the reform of the common fisheries policy? Will he also ensure that the Scottish perspective on the common fisheries policy is strongly expressed, particularly in light of the Danish presidency's recent actions? Will he also stress the importance of ensuring that where that approach is taken, the European Commission should act in a balanced and neutral manner?

Ross Finnie:

I agree with that. There is a risk that the Commission might seek to compromise because Scotland agrees with the principles of the common fisheries policy reform. It might compromise in order to try and bridge the gap between those who believe in those principles and the friends of fishing, who are a million miles away from agreement. That would compromise the position of the Scottish fishing industry. I assure members that I am well aware of that possibility. In the discussions that I had yesterday as a preliminary to next week's meeting, we in the UK were apprised of that possibility and we will not allow it to happen.

Question 8 is withdrawn.


Funding (Monitoring)

9. Brian Fitzpatrick (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive what assessment it has made of any returns received from East Dunbartonshire Council on the council's use of funds provided by the Scottish Executive for the implementation of free personal and nursing care and of the need for external monitoring of the application of such funds. (S1O-5559)

The Deputy Minister for Health and Community Care (Mr Frank McAveety):

East Dunbartonshire Council has suggested that its allocation for the implementation of free personal and nursing care will be insufficient to meet local demand in this financial year. We reiterate that all local authorities received enough money to meet payments for existing self-funders, to replace lost income following the end of charges for personal care and to meet additional demand stimulated by the policy. Accordingly, we have now written back to the council leader, advising that the allocation was agreed with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities to ensure that local authorities could fulfil the policy intentions and asking East Dunbartonshire Council to review its present position.

Brian Fitzpatrick:

The minister will be aware of the dossier of cases that I have raised with him in relation to East Dunbartonshire Council's dealings with my elderly constituents throughout Strathkelvin and Bearsden. I am particularly concerned about the erratic nature of decision making on applications. For example, evidence is emerging of assistance being refused in cases where delayed discharge money has already been paid out and of applications being refused and then subsequently granted following my intervention. Will the minister urgently review the returns from East Dunbartonshire Council and will he consider the need for outside monitoring of the authority?

Mr McAveety:

I reassure the member that all local authorities will have to return information as of October. We will monitor carefully the issues that arise from those returns. In this case, we thought it appropriate to identify what the allocation was for and we hope that it will be met. We are happy to have dialogue with local authorities to ensure that they fulfil the policy intentions that were approved by the Parliament.

Mrs Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):

In view of the concerns that have been raised about a number of cases across the country, and concerns about the guidelines on feeding, what action is the Executive taking to monitor the implementation of free personal and nursing care? I received a letter from Dr Barclay of Westminster Health Care Ltd's Strachan House nursing home in my constituency, in which he stated that no payment had been received by any of the people in his home for three months, which means that residents are out of pocket to the tune of almost £3,000 each.

Mr McAveety:

I am happy to receive those concerns from Margaret Smith on behalf of her constituents. Monitoring procedures ensure that there is intervention when inappropriate judgments are made. Recently, one or two cases have been identified, and after further inquiry and examination of the legislation and the guidelines, the concerns have been addressed. I hope that, through that continuing process, we can address the teething issues that exist with new policies such as free personal care.

I reiterate the fact that we have given sufficient resources to local authorities to meet present need, to meet the unmet demand that has presented itself, and to ensure that there is sufficient capacity to deal with other infrastructure issues. However, matters arise in sequential order, and the fundamental issue is to deal with those people who present themselves and require assistance.


Torness Power Station (Shutdown)

To ask the Scottish Executive what discussions it has had with Her Majesty's Government and British Energy plc about the local economic impact of the generator shutdown at Torness power station. (S1O-5590)

The Deputy Minister for Enterprise, Transport and Lifelong Learning (Lewis Macdonald):

The temporary shutdown at Torness is not affecting the local economy as the plant remains fully staffed while remedial work continues. We are well aware of the importance of British Energy to the Scottish economy and we are in close contact with the Department of Trade and Industry in relation to its current discussions with the company.

Mr Home Robertson:

I welcome the minister's acknowledgement of the importance of nuclear power to the Scottish economy. I ask ministers at every level in the Executive to keep in close touch with the UK Government and British Energy about proposals to restructure British Energy.

On Torness, does the minister welcome the fact that radiographic checks, which have been completed on most of the gas circulation pumps, have revealed no design faults and just two impellers with manufacturing defects? Does he share my optimism that both reactors at Torness will be generating environmentally friendly electricity safely in the near future?

I welcome the progress that is being made on the necessary remedial work and the guarantees on the security of supply and the safety of the installation.

Fiona McLeod (West of Scotland) (SNP):

Given that Torness will close in 2022 and that Hunterston B in my constituency will close in 2011, what plans does the minister have with local enterprise companies, local further education colleges and other bodies to ensure that we have a skilled decommissioning work force in those days?

I realise that the work force of 2022 may still be at school, but we should attend to the matter even at this early stage. We are continuing to work with local enterprise companies to ensure that we have a skilled decommissioning work force.

John Scott (Ayr) (Con):

What discussions has the minister had with Her Majesty's Government on the long-term security of Scotland's electricity supply if British Energy is put into liquidation or administration, and on the impact that such a company closure would have on Scotland's economy?

Lewis Macdonald:

We are in close contact with Her Majesty's Government because it has lead responsibility for the generation of electricity, although, clearly, we have an interest in ensuring security of supply to Scottish businesses and consumers. For that reason, we are working closely with Her Majesty's Government on the work that it is doing with British Energy to ensure that the company has a future and to ensure the security of Scotland's electricity supply.


Surgery (Access)

To ask the Scottish Executive how it is helping people that require hip and knee surgery to get more prompt access to treatment. (S1O-5601)

Last week, I announced £4 million to speed up treatment for hip and knee surgery. That funding will afford 500 patients with the longest waits the opportunity to have their operations carried out in the private sector.

Pauline McNeill:

I welcome the Health Care International hospital into the national health service and the national waiting times unit. Will the minister assure me that the use of private hospitals will not undermine on-going NHS services? Will he ensure that not only those 500 patients will benefit, but those patients who are next in line for treatment on the NHS? Does the minister agree that while the Scottish National Party is debating the difference, Labour is making the difference?

Malcolm Chisholm:

We are taking action on the longest waiting times. There is a problem with orthopaedics across the United Kingdom. The number of orthopaedic procedures is increasing, but demand is increasing even more. That is why we need to have specific initiatives for orthopaedics. We injected extra money from the waiting times money earlier in the year. We are building up the capacity at the national waiting times centre, which was formerly HCI. We now have a further initiative, which uses spare capacity in the private sector. At the end of August, I attended a meeting with orthopaedic surgeons and others to discuss the general problem and new proposals arose from that meeting. We are dealing with the issue on a range of fronts.

Dorothy-Grace Elder (Glasgow) (Ind):

As the minister knows, hip replacement is a very successful operation, which restores people to a proper pain-free life. In Glasgow, people have to wait up to 20 months for such operations and it takes about a year to see a consultant in the first place. By how much does the minister estimate operations will be speeded up in the west of Scotland as a result of the new investment?

Malcolm Chisholm:

I acknowledge that there is a particular problem in Glasgow. That is why, out of the sum of almost £4 million that was announced last week, Glasgow received almost £1.5 million. We are conscious of the issues in Glasgow. Patients in Glasgow who are waiting for orthopaedic procedures and other operations will benefit from the spare capacity in the private sector and from the increasing use of the national waiting times centre.

Dorothy-Grace Elder has highlighted out-patient waiting times. Members will have noticed that in our spending review last week we included an ambitious target of a maximum out-patient waiting time of six months by 2006. Much work will be necessary to make progress on the longest waiting times. We have already drawn up action plans with every board in Scotland, which will mean that they target immediately the out-patients who have been waiting the longest. We are determined to achieve the new target as well as to achieve the targets that have already been set for in-patient waiting.

Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):

By June this year, 1,000 fewer hip replacements had been carried out than had been carried out in the period ending in June 1999. In addition, 4,000 more people were on the orthopaedic waiting list in June this year than were on it in June 1999. Will the minister admit that his opposition to allowing NHS patients to use the private sector has led to pain and suffering for thousands of orthopaedic patients in Scotland?

Malcolm Chisholm:

I have already discussed the rising demand for orthopaedic procedures, which is an issue throughout the United Kingdom.

On her second point, Mary Scanlon should look back at the press cuttings. I think that I became Minister for Health and Community Care on 27 November last year. Within about three weeks, I was accused in the Sunday Herald of wanting to privatise the health service. I actually said that I was going to take a pragmatic view of the use of spare capacity in the private sector. That is exactly what we did last year. We bought the national waiting times centre—formerly HCI—because it would have gone out of business and that would have been a loss to the people of Scotland. As I have said since my first week in office, we will use spare capacity in the private sector to reduce the longest waiting times. That is pragmatic, unlike the ideological approach of the Conservative party.


Rural Dental Services

To ask the Scottish Executive what action it is taking to retain rural dentists. (S1O-5609)

The Deputy Minister for Health and Community Care (Mrs Mary Mulligan):

On 25 April, I announced a £1 million package as part of a phased programme to improve recruitment and retention of NHS dentists.

In addition, from 1 April, the Executive has introduced a remote areas allowance and additional continuing professional development allowances for dentists working in remote areas, which are linked to NHS earnings.

Mr Stone:

The minister will know from conversations that we have had that the town of Thurso is set to lose two of its dentists in December, which will mean that 4,800 patients will have to find a new practice. At present, no general dental practitioners in Wick or Thurso are taking on NHS patients. Does the minister agree that we need a step change in thinking and approach? In the Highlands, we are already having trouble getting NHS patients to dentists and we must resolve the issue before the situation becomes even worse.

Mrs Mulligan:

I am acutely aware of the difficulties in the Highlands. I have suggested on several occasions that boards should seek to install salaried dentists to address some of the problems. Highland NHS Board has 5.6 full-time equivalents at the moment. If Highland NHS Board wanted to extend that capacity by making applications to the health department, I imagine that there would not be any difficulty.

Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):

Will the minister consider how dentists might be attracted to country towns in the longer term? In particular, will she look at how the Executive might enhance its role by supporting and expanding the use of training practices in rural areas as a way of introducing young dentists to country practice? I am convinced that the majority would enjoy their training away from the cities—

Order. We have heard the question—

And I am convinced that they would be willing to pursue their careers in the country.

Mrs Mulligan:

As I said, additional moneys have been made available for those coming out of training in dental hospitals to move into such areas. Alongside that on-going process, we want to see links made between rural dental practices and students, so that, as Maureen Macmillan mentioned, students will be attracted to rural areas, which are such good places in which to live. I am sure that many will want to return to rural practice after they have qualified.

I welcome the fact that the health board in my constituency is employing salaried dentists, but is the minister satisfied that the current output from the Scottish dental schools is sufficient to meet demand?

Mrs Mulligan:

The present agreed output is 120 students per year, which should be enough to meet the needs of Scotland. However, there is an issue about retaining those numbers within Scotland. That is one reason why we have introduced the golden hellos. We are not complacent and will continue to review the situation. The Scottish advisory committee on the dental work force will report further next year on our training and recruitment procedures. We will review the number at that stage.


Rape (Prosecution)

To ask the Scottish Executive what action is being taken in order to increase the percentage of rapes reported to the police that are prosecuted. (S1O-5570)

The Solicitor General for Scotland (Mrs Elish Angiolini):

The Crown's policy is to prosecute every case of rape where there is sufficient reliable and credible evidence to do so. The Lord Advocate has already taken steps to clarify the law in this difficult area. Last year, he referred the case of Edward Watt to the High Court and secured a ruling that clarified the definition of rape in Scots law. That should make prosecution possible in some cases in which it was not previously possible.

Mr Paterson:

Although I welcome the Sexual Offences (Procedure and Evidence) (Scotland) Act 2002, the act will protect only those whose case reaches court, which is currently 8 per cent of those who report rape. Given the fact that the Minister for Justice has recently stated in reply to a parliamentary question that no further research will be carried out into the investigation of rape in Scotland, will the Executive ensure that those who review the police guidance will examine the work that was carried out by the Metropolitan police force's project sapphire? That project was backed up by research and by training projects that were developed in America, which aim to provide investigators with skills that help them to collect evidence, which will help to overcome—

Order. We have the question.

There is one further part—

No. Members must not add information to their questions.

The Solicitor General for Scotland:

We will certainly look outward at any initiatives that are of relevance. The prosecution of rape is a serious area that is a major priority for the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service. We are undertaking a major review of all our working practices to ensure that they are efficient and to ensure that quality evidence is available for the court. That is a priority, because we need to have sufficient evidence before we can do anything with these tragic cases.

We are also working with the police and the Executive to ensure that the new guidelines for the police allow the investigation of such cases to be approached much more forensically and energetically than has perhaps been the case in the past 15 years. An attractive change is taking place in the pattern of how such cases are taken forward. We are doing a great deal to ensure that serious crimes such as rape are addressed expeditiously in Scotland.

Trish Godman (West Renfrewshire) (Lab):

Does the Solicitor General have any intention to examine other legal systems, in particular those in northern Europe and the States, where more crimes are reported and the conviction rate is much higher? Indeed, the conviction rate in New York is 74 per cent.

The Solicitor General for Scotland:

Members will perhaps be aware that the definition of rape varies across the world from one jurisdiction to another. Many jurisdictions take a much wider definition than does Scotland, where the definition of rape is narrow and relates only to intercourse, so comparisons may be misleading.

Of course, we look at other legal systems. This autumn, as has happened before, a member of our policy group will work with district attorneys and attend their training course for the prosecution of sexual offences. We constantly look at what we are doing and look outward for ideas. On Monday, I attended the conference of the International Association of Prosecutors.

The reality is that Scotland requires a robust level of evidence, and corroboration is certainly a more difficult obstacle. Having said that, I believe that we secure equivalent rates of conviction to many jurisdictions around the world that do not have to achieve our level of evidence.