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Chamber and committees

Plenary, 23 Mar 2000

Meeting date: Thursday, March 23, 2000


Contents


Question Time


SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE

We begin question time. Question 1 has been withdrawn.


Casino Opening Hours

2. Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab):

Before I ask the question, I declare an interest in the matter, as I am a member of the union that represents the staff concerned.

To ask the Scottish Executive what consultation was undertaken in relation to the extension of casino opening hours in Scotland and whether that consultation included the attitudes of staff to the change. (S1O-1441)

I call Mr Jim Wallace.

I am sorry, but Mr Wallace appears not to be here. [Laughter.] Order. We will move to question 3 and come back to question 2 if Mr Wallace turns up.


Scottish Bus Group (Pension Fund)

To ask the Scottish Executive what discussions have taken place with Her Majesty's Treasury regarding the pension fund of former employees of the Scottish Bus Group. (S1O-1403)

Discussions with HM Treasury have focused on procedural matters relating to the wind-up of the Scottish Transport Group.

Dennis Canavan:

Is the minister aware that I wrote to her about the matter on 15 September last year, again on 22 October and again on 7 December? More than six months later, I still have not received an acknowledgement or a reply. When I phoned her office on 29 February, I was told that the matter was under consideration by the UK Treasury. I therefore wrote to Gordon Brown, only to be told that the matter is the responsibility of the Scottish Executive. Will the Executive and the UK Government stop passing the buck?

Bearing in mind that, in a similar case, the High Court in England found in favour of the former employees of the National Bus Group, will the minister take urgent action to ensure that the surplus of more than £100 million in the Scottish Bus Group Ltd pension fund is handed over to the former employees of Scottish Bus Group, instead of being used to fill the Treasury coffers?

Sarah Boyack:

On each occasion, Mr Canavan should have had a letter from my office saying that the matter was being dealt with. A number of members have asked me the same question. Until the issue is resolved, I cannot give him a letter setting out the formal resolution.

The matter is on my desk and we are attempting to deal with it. It has been a long, complex and extremely frustrating process for all the members who have local people who have written to them about the issue. In the region of 8,000 pensioners and 4,000 deferred pensioners are involved in the two schemes. I am extremely concerned to ensure that we can resolve the situation, and we are dealing with the matter with the utmost urgency.

We will come back to question 2 for the late Mr Wallace. [Members: "Oh."] Will the member please repeat the question?


Casino Opening Hours

To ask the Scottish Executive what consultation was undertaken in relation to the extension of casino opening hours in Scotland and whether that consultation included the attitudes of staff to the change. (S1O-1441)

The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Justice (Mr Jim Wallace):

First, I apologise, Sir David, to you and to the Parliament. I am afraid that the opening hours caught me out. [Laughter.]

Widespread consultation was undertaken in regard to the proposal to extend casino hours, and representations were received as to the attitudes of staff to change.

Pauline McNeill:

Is the minister aware that the extension of opening hours may have a detrimental impact on staff working in casinos, who already work long hours? One major employer has already written into the contract of employment that shifts will be dictated by business requirements. There is a fear among workers in the industry that the extension will lead to 24-hour opening.

Mr Wallace:

I am aware that a number of parties made representations, including the GMB. Ministers have not yet received the outcome of the consultation. I assure Ms McNeill that staff concerns will be given particular attention when I get a report from officials on the outcome of the consultation exercise.


Rural Housing

To ask the Scottish Executive what steps it intends to take to improve the number and quality of community houses for rent in rural areas. (S1O-1433)

The Minister for Communities (Ms Wendy Alexander):

Next year, the Scottish Homes development programme for rural Scotland will increase for the third successive year, to £45 million. That is an increase of more than 10 per cent on this year's figure, and will allow Scottish Homes to approve more than 1,200 homes for social rent.

A further £36 million will be made available through new housing partnership funding. Over the next three years, that will provide a further 1,500 new and improved homes, most of which will be for social rent.

Finally, we have launched a rural partnership for change in Highland, which will pilot a new approach to tackling the difficulties faced by pressured rural areas.

Dr Murray:

As far as the pilot project in the Highlands is concerned, what advice would the minister give to the housing agencies in Dumfries and Galloway—an area which, like the Highlands, contains a number of pressured rural communities and a shortage of community-rented housing—so that Dumfries and Galloway may also access the extra available funding to address housing problems in its rural areas?

Ms Alexander:

Because of Dumfries and Galloway's particular needs, it will receive £4 million next year, an increase of 33 per cent on last year, when it received £3 million. That should allow the approval of 86 new homes, and the pilot in Highland will be rolled out to other rural areas from next year.

Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP):

Can the minister confirm that, on 13 January, in the housing debate, she said that, if rural Scotland were to get the lion's share of the 6,000 new homes funded by the Scottish Homes development, there would be no difficulty in extending the right to buy to housing associations in rural areas? As the 1,200 homes that she has announced is not the lion's share of 6,000, and given that she has already climbed down on the issue of right to buy in rural areas, will she consider now abandoning that whole policy?

Ms Alexander:

No. I am happy to confirm that the number of units to be built in rural Scotland will increase by 89 per cent from the number built two years ago. We are increasing considerably the number of houses in rural areas while also building in urban Scotland.

Mr Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):

Will the minister accept that the Executive's current proposals to extend the right to buy could severely curtail the availability of much-needed social housing for rent in rural areas such as Deeside, in my constituency? Will she agree to examine the prospect of allowing communities with less than a certain level—whatever that level would be—of such housing to be excluded from the proposed extension of the right to buy?

Ms Alexander:

As we have often discussed in this chamber, the key problem in rural Scotland is the absolute shortage of houses, either for rent or for purchase. The right to buy, therefore, is not really a particularly significant aspect of that problem. However, we have recognised that the existing exemption for some pressured rural areas is not effective, and we have asked Highland Council to examine what form a replacement exemption power would take.


Chancellor of the Exchequer (Budget)

To ask the Scottish Executive what impact it expects the Chancellor of the Exchequer's budget to have on the economy of the Highlands and Islands. (S1O-1409)

The chancellor made a number of budget announcements that will benefit greatly the economy of the Highlands and Islands.

Well summarised.

The minister, I notice, did not mention the chancellor's rise in fuel duty, his fourth. Can the minister name any one country in the world that has a higher level of fuel duty on petrol and diesel than Scotland?

Mr Morrison:

Once again, the tone and content of Mr Ewing's supplementary could be adequately summed up using a Gaelic expression, but I am a bit loth to use it because I suspect that, on hearing the translation, Mr Ewing would ask me to leave the chamber. [Laughter.]

Members:

Go on.

Try me.

Mr Morrison:

Considerable sums of money are being invested right across the Highlands and Islands for transport. I can cite the increase of up to £15 million in the Caledonian MacBrayne subsidy and the increase in the subsidy to Highlands and Islands Airports Ltd, which has now been raised to £13 million. Millions of pounds are being spent on transport initiatives right across the Highlands and Islands.

Name a country.

That is the reality, and I wish that my friend Fergus Ewing would appreciate what is being done, step by step, right across the Highlands and Islands.

Before we go any further, can we please have less shouting from the SNP side of the chamber during answers.

Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):

Will the minister join me in welcoming the increased scope for public spending in the Highlands and Islands? Will he also agree that that is good news for the Scottish land fund and for land reform? Will he further agree that it is an absolute disgrace that John MacLeod has put the Cuillins up for sale at a price of £10 million? Does he agree with the statement issued by Calum MacDonald earlier today?

Mr Morrison:

I agree that the Scottish land fund has been excellent and is empowering communities across the Highlands and Islands. I agree with Calum MacDonald, who said that MacLeod should hang his head in shame for trying to exploit what God gave to the people of Skye.

The episode raises a number of issues. John MacLeod of MacLeod did not buy the estate; he got it because he is the clan chief. I hope, for the sake of the people of Skye and Scotland, that MacLeod of MacLeod will come to a solution that will be sympathetic to his kinsmen in Skye.

Incidentally, the matter raises the wider issue of how some clan chiefs became private landowners. I hope that this episode can shed light on that great mystery.

All very interesting, but I could not see what it had to do with the Chancellor of the Exchequer's budget.


Air Routes (Islay, Campbeltown and Tiree)

To ask the Scottish Executive when an announcement will be made on a new operator for the Islay, Campbeltown and Tiree air routes. (S1O-1413)

The Minister for Transport and the Environment (Sarah Boyack):

An announcement was made on 21 March 2000 that the Scottish Executive's contracts for the provision of air services between Glasgow, Campbeltown and Tiree and from Glasgow to Barra have been awarded to Loganair for three years from April 2000 until March 2003. The Glasgow-Islay air service is operated on a commercial basis and does not form part of these contracts.

George Lyon:

I inform the minister of the widespread concern in the Tiree community about the use of the Twin Otter aircraft for the service. There is real concern about the ability of that aircraft to serve the needs of the community. I ask that the minister monitor closely the service provision for Barra, Campbeltown and Tiree and take action if Loganair fails to deliver what the local community expects: a reliable and efficient air service to Glasgow airport.

Sarah Boyack:

Two pieces of news will give great comfort to George Lyon's constituents in Tiree. There will be an additional Twin Otter aircraft on the Barra, Campbeltown and Tiree service, which will lead to much greater reliability and effectiveness. Also, the Barra flight will no longer be linked to the Tiree flight, which will mean that passengers to Tiree will no longer be held up by the vagaries of the tidal system at Barra.

Will the minister comment on the steps taken to consult communities on this matter? Does she believe that aspects of that consultation might be relevant to the provision of public transport services elsewhere in Scotland?

Sarah Boyack:

On this occasion, we consulted the relevant local authorities: Argyll and Bute Council and the Western Isles Council. We also consulted the relevant enterprise companies: Argyll and the Islands Enterprise and Western Isles Enterprise.

In the consultation, we were looking for ways in which the service could be improved. Our consultation process is a model one and I hope that we can consider the responses when we discuss the possibility of a Highlands and Islands transport authority.


Enterprise (Public Funding)

To ask the Scottish Executive what measures are taken by the enterprise agencies and local enterprise councils to ensure that public funding is not given to companies whose financial position is unsustainable. (S1O-1422)

The Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Henry McLeish):

In considering proposals for providing financial assistance to companies, local enterprise companies are required to satisfy themselves that such assistance is justified in terms of financial, economic and environmental benefits. Appraisals should include, where appropriate, an assessment of the commercial viability of the company concerned and quantification of the risks and uncertainties associated with providing financial assistance.

Alex Fergusson:

I draw the minister's attention to the case of Galscott Foods, a seafood processing company in Stranraer. Despite receiving start-up funding of £300,000 only 18 months ago and a loan of £50,000 last December, it has now gone into liquidation. Despite a specific requirement in Dumfries and Galloway Enterprise's loan funding conditions that all contractors must be timeously paid, several small local firms are owed significant sums of money as a direct result of public funding.

Will the minister agree—

Order, Mr Fergusson. There is a limit to the length of questions.

I had to give the background, Presiding Officer.

I want the foreground, not the background.

Alex Fergusson:

I have reached the foreground, Presiding Officer.

Will the minister agree to review the procedures that local enterprise companies undertake when assessing the financial viability of companies that are applying for funding, as part of his review of Scottish Enterprise, to ensure that they are considerably more robust than they were in this case?

Mr McLeish, please try to give an answer that is shorter than that question.

Henry McLeish:

I will try to give a shorter answer, but this is a case that it is worth while to consider in the chamber, as important issues are raised in relation to this particular set of circumstances. I would not like Alex Fergusson to generalise from a specific case that involves a difficult set of circumstances.

When the situation arose and we found out that the creditors were not being properly dealt with, in early January, on 8 February, on 29 February and on 10 March, letters were sent from Dumfries and Galloway Enterprise to the company—without a great deal of response. Dumfries and Galloway Enterprise is working closely with the liquidator to try to salvage something from the situation. The Scottish Executive offered regional selective assistance, and fisheries guidance cash was offered, but that assistance was not taken up.

We are not talking only about a relatively small amount of money, but about the principle that, when we are dealing with companies, we expect them to give us every piece of information that is available. If we discuss with the liquidator the problems of that case and solve it, I will be quite happy to consider the general issues that the case raises, to ensure that every pound of public finance that is given is given against the best and most secure background to ensure that the money is protected and that the interests of creditors and others who are involved are secured as well.

Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):

I share Mr Fergusson's concern that companies that are not financially viable should not be given public support. However, following the announcement today of the potential loss of 628 jobs at Daks-Simpson's factories at Larkhall and Polbeth, and following the withdrawal of contracts by Marks and Spencer—given the high level of skill and dedication of those work forces, and given that the company is financially viable—will the minister indicate what steps the Executive has taken, and will take, to assist the company in winning new contracts and providing support to the work force that is affected? Furthermore, will he undertake to meet me and my colleague Bristow Muldoon—the constituency MSPs—and to visit the factories in the near future?

Henry McLeish:

I am happy to accept the suggestion of meetings and visits. However, this situation was created by the withdrawal of the order from Marks and Spencer. We visited Marks and Spencer last year, and we visited Daks-Simpson. Since then, the Scotland Office and the Scottish Executive have been working closely with that company.

It is interesting—and the Parliament should take note—that, as a result of the efforts of Daks-Simpson, the company has been able to secure work without which an additional 200 people would have been made redundant. The company has given statutory notice to the department. We hope to work continuously with it so that this provisional figure for redundancies will not be realised.

The company is trying its best, as are we, and I sincerely hope that, by working with all those who are concerned, we can achieve a more positive outcome than was envisaged in October when Marks and Spencer withdrew contracts. It is a sad situation, and we are doing our best to improve it.


European Union Intergovernmental Conference

To ask the Scottish Executive what representations it made at the recent European Union intergovernmental conference, at both ministerial and advisory levels. (S1O-1404)

The Executive has and will continue to be fully involved in the UK preparations for the forthcoming intergovernmental conference.

Alex Neil:

I do not know what that means, as, this weekend, no minister from the Scottish Executive will be attending the e-commerce summit in Lisbon. Has the Scottish Executive had any input to the discussion document "The E-Commerce Initiative", which was published by the European Commission? Does the minister agree with the European Parliament's rapporteur, who reckons that the e-commerce document that was produced by the Commission does not focus sufficiently on the issues of social cohesion and employment?

Mr McConnell:

I discussed some of those issues in Brussels yesterday with commissioners and officials. That is an indication of how regularly discussions take place between ministers, officials and representatives of the Commission.

We must recognise that Scotland is represented at the intergovernmental conference, and in other ways, by much bigger players on the European scene. To dismiss the fact that the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, who represents the UK at such events, is a Scot who represents a Scottish constituency, that the Chancellor of the Exchequer is a Scot who represents a Scottish constituency and that the minister with responsibility for European competitiveness is a Scot who represents a Scottish constituency is to dismiss the fact that we are there. We get the best of both worlds, as we have direct representation and we have the clout of being part of one of the big players in Europe.


Day Care Facilities

To ask the Scottish Executive what measures are being taken to ensure the viability of day care facilities such as crèches and playgroups. (S1O-1435)

The Deputy Minister for Children and Education (Peter Peacock):

Over the three years to 2002 more than £33 million is available to local authorities for the child care strategy, including support for child care projects to secure viability. A further £42 million is available to authorities for Sure Start Scotland, to support vulnerable families with very young children. Over 1,100 child care centres, including more than 450 playgroups, are also benefiting from pre-school education grants.

Does the minister agree that the maximisation of the local authority rent and rate-free space that the Executive encourages for after-school clubs would assist the wider delivery of affordable day care for many more Scottish children?

Peter Peacock:

I am happy to agree. Local authorities have a clear role in encouraging the provision of child care and playgroups in their areas as well as making their own provision. If they can help voluntary sector groups, particularly with rent and rate-free space, that would be a major contribution that we would encourage wherever possible.

How much funding, last year and this, has the Government given to the Scottish Pre-school Playgroup Association, which ensures that children have free play?

Peter Peacock:

I do not have the figure to hand but I will write to Mrs McLeod with it. Colleagues and I recently met the SPPA to discuss the role it can play to make sure we have a strong and vibrant playgroup movement, which has a very important part to play in the life of our communities.

Does the Scottish Executive show a similar level of interest in day care for the elderly? Is the minister aware that Scottish local authorities are—

No. We will move on to the next question.


Caledonian MacBrayne

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it is satisfied with the current service provided by Caledonian MacBrayne. (S1O-1428)

The Executive attaches a high priority to maintaining lifeline ferry services. We are satisfied that Caledonian MacBrayne Ltd has made good progress against efficiency and performance targets set by the Executive each year.

Mr Hamilton:

On a previous occasion I asked the minister whether she would guarantee that, despite the efforts on competition of the European Commission, Caledonian MacBrayne will not be privatised. I ask today if she will give a guarantee that no individual route operated by Caledonian MacBrayne will be privatised, as there is widespread concern that that may happen. Will she tell us today that no CalMac route will be privatised?

The answer I can give is that we are currently discussing the issue with the European Commission. As I said to Parliament previously and reiterate, we have no intention of privatising Caledonian MacBrayne.

I would like to ask the minister if, in relation to the individual operating routes of Caledonian MacBrayne, she can demonstrate how effectiveness and efficiency are measured and how value for money is provided.

Sarah Boyack:

I am happy to explain how we identify efficiency across CalMac services. Given that we are allocating the highest ever subsidy to it of £14.8 million, it is vital that we receive an efficient service. In 1998-99 the target for financial efficiency was achieved and the efficiency target was exceeded. The performance target was not met; it was 98 per cent of sailings on time and the rate was 97.4 per cent of sailings on time. On staff costs the target was met.

To ask the minister whether the Scottish Executive has made any attempt to have returned to CalMac the ferry sold at rock-bottom price to Sea Containers Ltd on the order of Michael Forsyth, then Secretary of State for Scotland.

No; we have not attempted to buy that ferry back. The £20 million investment in new ferries this year has been our priority.


Nuclear Installations (Decommissioning)

To ask the Scottish Executive what discussions it has had with the Health and Safety Executive over the environmental implications of the decommissioning of nuclear installations in Scotland. (S1O-1443)

The Scottish Executive was consulted on the draft regulations that were proposed by the Health and Safety Executive and the accompanying guidance document relating to the decommissioning of nuclear installations.

Mr MacAskill:

In view of the appalling track record at Dounreay, and at Sellafield or Windscale, why is it that accountability on decommissioning is to Westminster rather than here? What will the minister do to return accountability to this Parliament and to the people of Scotland?

Sarah Boyack:

I am disappointed but not surprised by the tone of that question. The critical point is that, through the Scottish Environment Protection Agency, we oversee the protection of the environment. We are fully consulted on, and involved with, any of the decommissioning works that are being carried out at Dounreay. One of the first things that I did on becoming a minister was to ensure that I could meet the management at Dounreay and receive regular reports on progress towards the achievement of the recommendations of the HSE/SEPA audit report.

We are being more transparent and are ensuring that we stick to the highest standards of environmental protection. The Executive has a strong interest in ensuring that the decommissioning of Dounreay proceeds to those standards.

What powers does the minister have over the HSE?

Sarah Boyack:

We are kept informed by HSE through SEPA. Through SEPA, we have the opportunity to ensure that each HSE report is subject to the transparency to which I referred. That is our mechanism for accountability in the implementation of the HSE/SEPA audit report. It is significant that that is a joint report. Reports are made regularly to a local liaison committee. There are now more reports about progress at Dounreay than there have ever been. Some of us have campaigned for years for such transparency. The Executive is ensuring that we have it.

Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):

Will the minister join me in congratulating the management and staff of Dounreay, who have worked very hard to produce a marked improvement in safety practices there? Will she congratulate them on their new policy of openness after so many years of secrecy? That openness has done much to reassure those of us who have been concerned about safety at Dounreay.

Sarah Boyack:

There is evidence that much more emphasis is being placed on transparency and accountability. One example of that is the fortnightly information for stakeholders that the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority produces. People who wish to raise concerns can see what progress is being made in practice.

The HSE/SEPA audit report made a number of recommendations. There is a rigorous process to go through before it is accepted that recommendations have been implemented, and only six recommendations have been fully closed off. That is a recognition of the higher standards that apply and the more transparent process that is under way. Follow-up action has been completed on 40 recommendations, but the regulator's approval of that action has still to be gained. The process is now more rigorous and transparent. That is critical for people's confidence in decommissioning at Dounreay. It is important that that confidence be sustained and the management there is aware that transparency must be maintained.


Scottish Executive (Newspaper Advertisements)

To ask the Scottish Executive what criteria it applies in deciding on the appropriate placing of its newspaper advertisements. (S1O-1419)

The Minister for Finance (Mr Jack McConnell):

The Scottish Executive's newspaper advertisements, which range from public information campaigns to recruitment advertisements, are placed on our behalf by our advertising agencies. The criteria that determine the placement of advertisements vary according to individual circumstances and commonly include the requirement to reach the target group at an affordable cost.

Michael Russell:

As the minister was deeply involved in the election campaign last year, he will be aware that a book that was published this week provides incontrovertible evidence that the Labour party used £100,000 to try to blackmail a Scottish newspaper to take the Labour line. [Members: "Withdraw."] I would like an assurance from the minister that the criteria that he has announced today will be the inflexible—

Order. Questions must be about the Government, not about a political party.

Michael Russell:

Will the minister give me an incontrovertible and cast-iron assurance that the criteria to which he refers will be published and observed on all occasions, and that Alastair Campbell's remarks last week about the press will not influence decisions?

Mr McConnell:

The chamber has my absolute assurance that the criteria that determine the placement of our advertisements will be as I have stated. However, it is a bit rich for me to have to deal with comments on advertising during election campaigns or at any other time from someone who was responsible for the advertising campaigns of a political party that thought that it would win the election, but lost that election and the one before it.


Business Start-ups

To ask the Scottish Executive what steps it is taking to assist traditionally under-represented groups, such as young people, women and the long-term unemployed, to start their own businesses. (S1O-1426)

The Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Henry McLeish):

We are keen to encourage people from all sectors of society to consider self-employment and starting their own business as a viable option. A significant number of initiatives are in place to assist particular groups who are not traditionally seen as entrepreneurs.

Mike Watson:

I thank the minister for that response and for the announcement that he made on International Women's Day of an extra £1.5 million.

Can I draw to the minister's attention the record of the Castlemilk Economic Development Agency in providing support for women, youth and existing businesses? Each year the agency assists on average 25 previously unemployed Castlemilk residents to start up in business, through grant aid and loan funding. It actively encourages women to start up and develop businesses by accessing specialist women's finance and resources and micro-credit schemes.

Does the minister agree that the agency's success illustrates what can be achieved when local organisations are provided with the resources and those resources are targeted effectively?

Henry McLeish:

Very much so. The project to which Mike Watson refers is excellent and reflects some of the excellent work that has been done in Glasgow generally to tackle unemployment and the key economic issues that the city faces. We are attempting to put in place a wide range of measures that encourage self-employment and help people become more entrepreneurial. The new deal does that with 18 to 24-year-olds. The training for work scheme does the same thing, and we are keen to pursue it in the Glasgow employment zone.

It is absolutely crucial that the same opportunities are offered to every group in our society. For far too long, people from disadvantaged areas and, in particular, women, have not had the same access to the economic opportunities that we take for granted. I want to remove barriers and obstacles, and I hope that the project in Glasgow will serve as a beacon to other parts of Scotland, so that they join in to ensure that we have equality of access and equality of opportunity.

Dorothy-Grace Elder (Glasgow) (SNP):

Does the minister agree that also affected are unemployed people who suffer from the scandal of age discrimination, which in Scotland affects tens of thousands of people over the ages of 40 and 50? Because of age apartheid, such people often do not have the chance of getting a job. Sometimes, when trying desperately to start a small business, they are turned down by public bodies. Does the minister have any plans to aid persons of both sexes who are the victims of age discrimination in employment?

Henry McLeish:

The member's sentiments will be shared by most members of the Parliament. We do not want discrimination to affect any group or gender. That said, the budget highlighted the fact that we want to do more for older people—through the new deal for the long-term unemployed, for example. I can assure Dorothy-Grace Elder that all the policies that the Executive is pursuing are based on equality of opportunity. When it comes to employment and training, people should not be discriminated against on account of their age. I would like to think that the budget proposals and the work that we are doing will allay some of the member's concerns.


School Football Tournaments

To ask the Scottish Executive what measures are being taken to ensure that children under 12 years of age will continue to play competitive school football tournaments in Scotland. (S1O-1440)

I welcome back Rhona Brankin. [Applause.]

The Deputy Minister for Culture and Sport (Rhona Brankin):

Thank you, Sir David. With your forbearance, I would like to take this opportunity to thank colleagues from across the political parties for their support and encouragement during my recent illness. However, I must tell Brian Monteith that peace has not quite broken out.

Soccer sevens are the preferred approach to introducing under-12s to football and encouraging young people to maintain their involvement. That approach does not exclude an appropriate element of competition. The Scottish Football Association agrees with the approach; soccer sevens were introduced in the 1980s with the support of the Scottish Schools Football Association and local authorities.

Mr Monteith:

I thank the minister for her answer and I am pleased to be sparring with her again.

Jim Baxter, a Scottish legend—[Laughter.] He was not a favourite of mine, but he was a Scottish legend. He called that approach "very stupid" and Tommy Docherty called it "lunacy". Whatever one may think of their views, would the minister be willing to ask the SFA at least to consult the children who will be affected by that approach, before competition in 11-a-side football for the under-12s is phased out completely?

I, too, am old enough to remember keepie-uppie. The interests of the child are paramount in our approach. We are talking about appropriate competition—I stress the word "appropriate", as we must remember that when we take decisions.

Would it be possible to use new money to assist the development of coaching in primary schools? As well as ensuring that some degree of competition continues, that is an important aspect of enabling children to play well.

Rhona Brankin:

We recognise that the link between sport and health in primary schools is important. We have pilot programmes to develop active primary schools. We take sport in primary schools seriously and we are examining closely various different ways of improving sport in primary schools.


Education (Computers)

To ask the Scottish Executive what provision is being made to advise teachers and pupils on the sensible use of computers within schools. (S1O-1406)

There is a £23 million programme for training teachers on the classroom use of information and communications technology.

Mrs Mulligan:

I thank the minister for his answer. On 29 February, I visited a group of repetitive strain injury sufferers, who stressed the need to encourage good practice when using computers. Does the minister agree that school is a good place to start that good practice, not just in computer classes, where good practice is often encouraged, but in any classes where computers are used? For example, during that visit we saw children using rigid chairs, which can cause children a great deal of strain and so is a practice that should not be followed.

Peter Peacock:

I presume that those matters are covered by the training programmes that local authorities are developing and by health and safety guidelines, with which local authorities, as employers, would have to ensure that they comply, in relation to not only their employees but those who pass through their care as students or pupils. I will double-check that that matter is being given the attention that it deserves.

Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP):

Does the minister agree that it is extremely important that we ensure that teachers are properly trained in the use of computers? Will he comment on the fact that the computers for teachers scheme in Scotland provides teachers with a subsidy of up to £200 for the purchase of a personal computer, but that the same scheme in England provides teachers with up to £500 for the same purpose? Does he agree that that is hardly fair to teachers in Scotland? Does he have any plans to change the scheme in order to bring Scottish teachers into line with their English counterparts?

Peter Peacock:

In the commentary in the educational press, the Scottish system is being praised over the one in England and Wales. Our scheme guarantees £200—we pay the tax centrally, whereas teachers in England pay their own tax. The scheme in England offers up to £500—it does not guarantee £500—and restricts the technology that can be used, whereas the Scottish system is much more flexible. That is why we have received credit for our scheme, not only for what we have done, but for ensuring that more teachers as a proportion of the total teaching work force will get access to computers than is the case in England and Wales.

Will the minister inform the chamber what safeguards are in place to protect schoolchildren from exposure to pornographic material on the world wide web when they are using school computers?

Peter Peacock:

We take seriously the important issue of access to the internet. We have issued specific guidance to schools, through the ClickThinking guidance notes, to protect children from such influences. There are technical ways in which one can filter out inappropriate material, and we have ensured that those are in use. A variety of other technical devices exist to ensure that children do not access inappropriate material on the internet. The professionalism of our teachers in the classroom adds considerably to our ability to ensure that children are not exposed to inappropriate influences. We will keep the matter under close review, but we have taken a great many measures to ensure that nobody has access to inappropriate material.