Meeting of the Parliament

Meeting date: Wednesday, February 27, 2013

Official Report 627KB pdf

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Portfolio Question Time

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Education and Lifelong Learning

The next item of business is portfolio questions on education and lifelong learning. In order to get in as many people as possible, I prefer short and succinct questions—and answers to match, please.

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College Merger (Lanarkshire)

1. To ask the Scottish Government what impact the proposed merger between Motherwell, Coatbridge and Cumbernauld colleges will have on students in Lanarkshire. (S4O-01829)

As I think that Richard Lyle knows, it was announced yesterday that Coatbridge College has withdrawn from its proposed merger with Cumbernauld and Motherwell colleges. I regret that and I hope that discussions will resume at a future date.

Motherwell and Cumbernauld colleges are proceeding and have yet to submit to me their business case in support of merger, but when they do so I will consider it carefully. I will also consult all those who might have an interest in the prospective merger, including prospective students, before deciding whether to approve it.

It is often said that a week is a long time in politics. Two days ago, Coatbridge College pulled out of the proposed merger, which I also regret. I hope that it will come back.

Does the cabinet secretary agree that if the merger goes ahead, it will provide a wider availability of courses for all students in Lanarkshire, therefore ensuring that students have the opportunity to develop their education and skills in preparation for entering the workplace?

I have yet to see the business case and it would be wrong of me to pre-empt the decision on whether to approve the merger, but in general the member is right. All the evidence points to merged colleges being able to offer a wider and stronger curriculum, to the benefit of learners and employers alike. I am sure that that will influence the thinking of all those involved and perhaps those still to be involved.

Does the cabinet secretary believe that the Lanarkshire regional lead or the Scottish Further and Higher Education Funding Council has appropriate control over how the merger process is being conducted between the three colleges?

As Siobhan McMahon knows, merger is a voluntary activity. Indeed, I am often castigated from the Labour benches for being too keen to push the issue of merger. I think that the colleges themselves have to make the decision, which they are making. I encourage them to make it—I think that it is beneficial. Of course, I would do anything—as I am sure the Scottish funding council and others would—to help them if there are difficulties.

The public transport links between Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and the rest of north Lanarkshire are notoriously poor. Will the cabinet secretary assure me that when any business case is presented to him, he will ensure that those in my constituency who want to access courses in their local area will still be able to do so?

Yes; I agree with the member. I do not know the transport links, but in any circumstances in which a merger takes place we want to ensure that there is maximum access.

I have still to see the business case, but college mergers are not about closing campuses; they are about offering a better curriculum to learners, which needs to be delivered throughout the area that the college serves.

The cabinet secretary will know more than most that in order to make the most of their shrinking budgets, Motherwell and Cumbernauld colleges have put a lot of hard work into the merger.

Can we have your question, please?

Although Coatbridge College is no longer part of the process, will the cabinet secretary give assurances that the Government will fully support Motherwell and Cumbernauld colleges and ensure that they are in no way disadvantaged by Coatbridge’s withdrawal?

I believe that the merger proposals are good and that it is up to the parties to come to decisions on them. I will, of course, offer my support to those who intend to merge. I hope that Coatbridge will come back to the table. The only way in which one makes progress is by having negotiation, and I suspect that that will be the sensible thing to happen.

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Music Education

2. To ask the Scottish Government what plans it has to develop music education. (S4O-01830)

Music is a regular part of the curriculum in our schools and we want all children and young people to have access to music and the opportunity to learn and explore the subject.

In light of some recent concerns about instrumental music tuition charges, we have set up an instrumental music group, chaired by David Green, to examine the issues around the provision of instrumental music tuition, including charges applied by local authorities. The group has already met twice and will report to ministers by the end of June 2013.

We have also announced £1 million funding, administered by the Royal Conservatoire of Scotland, for the purchase of new musical instruments. The key aim will be to enable young people to learn a musical instrument who would otherwise be unable to do so due to the cost of purchasing or renting an instrument.

I suppose that I should declare an interest as a Musicians Union member and a former music teacher, although I did not teach in schools.

I am sure that the minister agrees not only that instrumental and singing skills are valuable to individuals but that they have huge social and cultural benefits. Music education is an easy hit for a council reduction. What might the Government be able to do in the longer term to ensure that music is a continuing and expanding part of our education?

It is of course local authorities’ responsibility to decide on, and justify to their local citizens, their policies and budgets on this and other issues. I would fully expect local authorities to want to deliver the entitlements in relation to curriculum for excellence experiences and outcomes on music.

Nigel Don makes the important point that the benefits of music in school extend far beyond music, to many other parts of the curriculum and not least to personal confidence for young people. I hope that all that will be taken into account when the instrumental music group reports.

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Nursery Education

3. To ask the Scottish Government what progress it is making on ensuring that three and four-year-olds have access to 600 hours of nursery education per year. (S4O-01831)

We are making good progress. Our children and young people bill will be introduced in Parliament this year. It will include proposals to increase the flexibility of free early learning and childcare and to increase the hours of provision from 475 to a minimum of 600 per year, which will be a 45 per cent increase since 2007. The proposals will also include a minimum of 600 hours of early learning and childcare for looked-after two-year-olds, which will be flexible to meet their individual needs and family circumstances.

The Scottish Government’s proposals are generating quite a lot of interest in my constituency. Would the minister be willing to come to Angus South to meet nursery practitioners and parents to discuss this important issue? Will she join me in congratulating everyone who is involved in the nursery class at Northmuir primary school in Kirriemuir, which received so glowing a report from Education Scotland that it is to be held up as an example to other schools across Scotland?

I would be happy to meet Graeme Dey and the practitioners and parents in his constituency to discuss our early learning and childcare proposals. I am delighted to congratulate the staff of the nursery class at Northmuir primary. It is an excellent achievement for a nursery to gain such high ratings in all areas of rigorous inspection by Education Scotland. I am sure that everyone agrees that we should celebrate and learn from that across the country.

Briefly, Neil Bibby.

Will the Scottish Government fully fund the increase in nursery hours?

A financial memorandum will be prepared to accompany the children and young people bill when it is introduced in Parliament.

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Early Years Collaborative

4. To ask the Scottish Government what progress has been made by the early years collaborative. (S4O-01832)

The early years collaborative was launched on 1 October 2012. Since then, we have developed and agreed on the ambition and the stretch aims.

The first learning session was held at the Scottish exhibition and conference centre in Glasgow on 24 and 25 January and was attended by more than 700 people from across the early years sector. The level of commitment to change and the enthusiasm that the participants generated at the learning session were outstanding.

The Scottish Government’s early years practice development team is now working closely with community planning partnerships, which are constructing their first tests of change. Planning is well under way for learning session 2, which will be held on 28 and 29 May at the SECC.

I welcome the groundbreaking work that is being done in this policy area and the aspiration to create the best country in the world to grow up in. Does the minister agree that the early years are crucial in determining the future life chances of Scotland’s children and young people and that it is the responsibility of all of us in society to do what we can to ensure positive outcomes? Will she elaborate on the stakeholder buy-in for the new approach? Does she share my concern that, despite our best efforts on early years policy, much is being undone by Westminster’s regressive welfare reforms?

I agree with James Dornan. The early years are crucial in determining children’s future life chances. The range of evidence to support that view is incontrovertible and widely understood.

I agree that we all have a responsibility to contribute to positive outcomes for children as parents, families and community members, as well as in our roles as public servants. My experience of the early years collaborative’s first learning session is that there is huge stakeholder buy-in for the approach. We are all looking forward to working together closely to achieve our aims.

I strongly believe that welfare reform will have a negative impact on the future of Scotland’s children and young people. Indeed, the Department for Work and Pensions has estimated that its latest changes to benefit uprating will result in about an extra 200,000 children being in relative income poverty by 2016 compared with the number using the current method of uprating benefits by the consumer prices index. Based on the current share of children in poverty, that will result in an estimated 15,000 children being pushed into poverty in Scotland. That is 15,000 reasons for people to vote yes next year so that we have control over welfare in Scotland and we can create a fairer and more progressive society.

I am a great fan of collaboratives because of my experience of them in health, so I welcome the creation of the early years collaborative. Who was invited to come? Who made up the 700 people who were involved? Will there be opportunities in due course for more people to be involved?

I thank Malcolm Chisholm for his question and his involvement in the early years task force. Learning session 1 was the largest-ever gathering of people from across all community planning partnerships who work to support children and families from conception to the start of primary school, so there was a wide, representative cross-section of people from Scotland’s CPPs. It is good that everyone from across Scotland was able to take part in this groundbreaking and innovative approach to early years policy.

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Cumbernauld College (Waiting List)

5. To ask the Scottish Government on what date the waiting list figures, and accompanying analysis, for Cumbernauld College will be published. (S4O-01833)

I said in my update to members on 16 January that we would do further analysis. That work is nearing completion and we will publish the final report soon.

The cabinet secretary has repeatedly stated that the waiting lists, as described, do not exist. For members to confirm or challenge that position, they need the figures and analysis. Does the cabinet secretary agree that the release of the figures as soon as possible is of the utmost importance to allow members to understand the waiting list situations in colleges in their constituencies and regions?

I certainly agree that the publication of the figures is keenly anticipated. I should perhaps say to the member that his colleagues around him should not anticipate it with enthusiasm given the things that they have said in the past, which may or may not turn out to be true. [Interruption.]

Order.

Does the cabinet secretary agree that the in-term results of the audit of college waiting lists across Scotland have already shown that claims of 21,000 individuals on college waiting lists are false?

That is indeed true. It is a good question. [Interruption.]

Order.

Indeed, I am surprised that members are shouting out from the Labour benches on that. I would have thought that, in the words of Clement Attlee, a “period of silence” would be in order.

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College Regionalisation (Course Provision)

6. To ask the Scottish Government how it will ensure that college regionalisation does not result in students being unable to attend courses close to home. (S4O-01834)

I expect regional colleges to deliver the provision that learners and employers in the area need, and I expect learners—particularly those who wish to take up non-advanced courses—to be able to access appropriate provision locally.

In South Scotland, there are concerns from students, parents and staff in Ayrshire, Midlothian and East Lothian about what courses will be available locally. Construction and joinery students in East Lothian and Midlothian will have to travel to Granton for their courses as regionalisation at Edinburgh College is leading to each college specialising in certain subjects. If the same tack is taken at Ayrshire regional college, given the spread between the Ayr, Kilmarnock and Kilwinning campuses, students will need to travel 45 to 50 miles to access their chosen course.

We need a question, please.

That is not local provision. What guarantee can the cabinet secretary give those students that the Government reforms will not undermine their desire to learn and improve?

I can give Mr Pearson an absolute assurance that the Government reforms will enhance students’ ability to learn and will enhance provision. I refer him to the evidence that was given to the Education and Culture Committee by Ian McKay, the chair of Edinburgh College, who is a former lecturer and Educational Institute of Scotland official, who talked about how Edinburgh College is providing enhanced opportunities for learning. What the reforms are delivering and will deliver will be beneficial for all in Scotland and particularly, I am sure, for Mr Pearson’s constituents in the South Scotland region.

Does the cabinet secretary think that the new regionalised model of further education will help courses to be developed that are more in line with local skills and that are more what local businesses want?

Through the regional model, the colleges are in a position to deliver courses that are much more tailored to the regional skills needs that exist within their areas. That is one of the purposes of the model and that is one of the benefits.

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Postgraduate Student Numbers

7. To ask the Scottish Government what steps it is taking to stop the reported fall in the number of Scottish postgraduate students. (S4O-01835)

Mr Malik raises an important point. The skills and experience that are gained through postgraduate study are increasingly important to key parts of our economy, including the energy and life sciences sector. I am therefore extremely pleased that, as announced today, the Scottish Further and Higher Education Funding Council has been able to fund an additional 850 postgraduate places at Scottish higher education institutions for 2013-14.

I will not make the usual sabre-rattling comments such as, “Too little, too late,” or, “What has the Government been doing for the past year in not dealing with the issue?” I genuinely welcome the announcement. However, I am interested in how the Scottish Government will help to fund wider access for students who are from more deprived backgrounds, because—as the cabinet secretary will agree—they are the most challenged.

I would like to hold up Mr Malik as a model Opposition member—one who is constructive and asks sensible questions. If only he was emulated by some of his colleagues.

On the further expansion of places, I explained to the Education and Culture Committee yesterday when giving evidence on the Post-16 Education (Scotland) Bill that the addition of 1,700 places, 1,000 of which are for articulation and 700 of which are essentially for widening access, is a considerable contribution.

The work in the bill that focuses on widening access is an important step forward, and it is only by showing the intention to legislate that we have been able to push forward on widening access. I have celebrated and been to visit lots of examples of good practice in universities and elsewhere. There is also an obligation on schools.

A considerable amount of work is going on. I hope that the Labour Party will support that work and vote for the legislation that is helping it.

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Educational Opportunities (Retired People)

8. Sorry—[Interruption.]—for the delay.

To ask the Scottish Government what educational opportunities there are for people who have retired. (S4O-01836)

I welcome Christine Grahame back from retirement. [Laughter.]

In Scotland we are fortunate to have a wide range of learning opportunities for people of all ages. For those who are seeking to gain or improve employment skills in particular, our colleges offer expert provision. In addition, opportunities are offered through local authority community-based adult learning programmes, as well as through the third sector, institutions such as the Open University, and private learning providers.

We should certainly be in our seats at the right time.

Over the years that I have been in the Parliament, I have realised that, although many elderly people now access the internet and use email, many are still frightened of the internet. For some of them, it would give them access to a wider world from their homes—access to information, to family and indeed to online shopping if they are unable to get out. What steps can the Government take to encourage those people to come into the internet world?

Nobody is too old to learn. All of us, as constituency MSPs, have noticed the increasing prevalence of emails from older constituents. Indeed, the use of the internet—the use of computers—is available as a learning experience through colleges and also through private providers, community organisations and the third sector.

We are trying to maintain support for that learning experience in difficult times so that people can learn, but of course the most important thing for learning is the desire to learn—the desire to discover and know new things. Provided that that desire exists in an individual, it does not matter how old they are.

I remind members that, if they have a question at question time, they must be in the chamber from the start of question time. I call Rhoda Grant.

Do retired graduates get access to individual learning accounts?

We have changed the regulations on individual learning accounts because of the financial pressures that exist, and there are qualifications to the support, including in relation to previous degrees. I think that that is a reasonable thing to have done, given the circumstances that we are in, and I hope that people understand that we have to prioritise the use of our resources in a way that is most effective at this stage, given the difficulties that come to us, largely from Westminster.

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Further Education College Principals (Meetings)

9. To ask the Scottish Government when the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning last met principals of further education colleges and what matters were discussed. (S4O-01837)

I meet college principals regularly, as well as chairs of colleges. This week, I met the new chair of Colleges Scotland, and last week I held one of my regular meetings with regional leads. Next week, I will be visiting at least one college and will meet the principal, staff and students. It is an on-going engagement.

A submission to the Education and Culture Committee from the North Highland College states that the college reform proposals are a

“recipe for confusion and disagreement and difficult to understand”.

What will the cabinet secretary do to ensure that further education colleges in the Highlands have the freedom to retain independent college structures and the autonomy to make local decisions for local colleges, and that further education institutions can focus their energies on training and education, not confusion and disagreement?

To be fair to North Highland College—which I have visited on two occasions, when I had welcome and good discussions—that quote is only part of the evidence, and there is other evidence as well.

I am happy to sit down with Mary Scanlon, if she wants, and go through the provisions in the Post-16 Education (Scotland) Bill. In doing so, I will be able to prove to a fair-minded person, such as Mary Scanlon, that the provisions allow for considerable local autonomy, local decision making and local focus, and that the model that is being applied in the Highlands and Islands through the further education structure within the University of the Highlands and Islands is not only the right model but the model that has been agreed by all the colleges.

I have chaired two meetings at which the matter has been discussed. The new model for the structure of the University of the Highlands and Islands—a triumvirate structure with a principal and two associate principals, one of whom deals with further education and the other of whom deals with research and specialist institutions—is exactly the model that is needed to balance the forces within the university.

Mary Scanlon has considerable experience of the college sector in the Highlands and Islands and knows that that type of resolution was needed to allow everyone to work together and to avoid our having to deal with some of the difficulties that have been experienced in the past.

I think that we have a model that works. I would be happy to explain it to Mary Scanlon over a cup of coffee or something stronger.

The recent budget announcement awarding an additional £61 million to colleges was warmly welcomed by John Henderson, the chief executive of Colleges Scotland, who said that the funding would give colleges stability over the next two years as they complete the reform process. Does the cabinet secretary agree with those comments, and does he feel that they show the sector’s enthusiasm for the reforms?

I was struck by what Paul Sherrington of Banff and Buchan College said to the Education and Culture Committee during stage 1 of the bill. When challenged directly on the issue, he said that the biggest issue that he had to confront was that of financial stability. He said that it was bigger than reform and that, if that were confronted, he was confident that he could move forward.

We have confronted the finance issue. We have created a level playing field in 2013-14 and 2014-15. The colleges know how they can plan and what they can do, and I think that John Henderson’s comments reflect that. His sentiments are echoed by Mandy Exley, the principal of the new Edinburgh College, who wrote in a letter to me:

“I really appreciate the position the Government has taken recently with respect to college funding. It is not the amount of money per se, but more the fact that you are as good as your word and open to discussion and willing to listen.”

That has been the nature of all the discussions that we have had with the college sector. It will continue to be the nature of our discussions. I hope that the Opposition parties will join in that spirit to ensure that we can make a good bill a better bill, which we can do as we take it forward.

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College Places (Learners aged 25 and Over)

10. To ask the Scottish Government, in terms of headcount, how many college places for learners aged 25 and over have been lost in the last three years. (S4O-01838)

I have made clear on many occasions, and I do so again today, that headcount is an inappropriate way to measure student numbers, whatever the age group, in a sector which is predominantly part-time and where courses vary so widely in length.

Headcount is a blunt measure that gives no indication of the economic relevance of a course or the level of teaching resource that a college decides that it is appropriate to apply. The way to make meaningful comparisons between years is by using the measure of full-time equivalent places, which clearly show that, under this Government, college places are being maintained.

I am surprised that the minister does not recognise that there is a place for headcount, given that it shows the number of people who are going to college and are benefiting from a college education.

Let me come to my supplementary question. Even though it is important that we put an emphasis on providing places for younger learners—particularly in light of the difficulties that they are experiencing in the current recession—does the minister recognise that an unintended consequence of such a focus could be to have a displacement effect on older learners, unless there is a policy to provide supplementary or additional places to what is currently available? Given those concerns, does the minister recognise that it is important that we put in place policies to support older learners and do not allow them to be unduly squeezed in this manner?

That is a good question, I have to say, and the contention that Mr Macintosh makes needs to be considered.

When I recently visited Reid Kerr College, I had a conversation with a group of students that covered that issue. I think, or at least hope, that I was able to reassure them that I agree that the policy must be not just about the prioritisation of younger people—although I am glad that Mr Macintosh recognises that we need to do that because of the current difficulties—but about the continued provision of encouragement and support for people of all age groups in college.

That is what all colleges are trying to do, and I think that that practice is succeeding and will continue to succeed. Of course, we will look very closely to ensure that we are continuing to encourage the widest use of colleges, which are very important.

Further to Ken Macintosh’s question, the cabinet secretary has already quoted both Paul Sherrington and Mandy Exley, who gave evidence to the Education and Culture Committee on that point. They talked about the reduction in the number of part-time students at both their institutions.

In the spirit of the answer that he has just given to Ken Macintosh, can the cabinet secretary perhaps expand on the level of flexibility that will be open to colleges to ensure that lifelong learning opportunities for older learners are maintained?

That is also a good point. I think that the level is virtually absolute, because colleges decide what takes place within their colleges. Ministers do not set the curriculum or the mix of offers; that is done by colleges, which need to balance what they think is important.

I know that in some colleges in Scotland—I am pretty certain that this will be true of the college in the area that Liam McArthur represents—the proportion of older learners available is higher than the proportion of younger learners available because of the demographics of the community. Therefore, such colleges will want to ensure that they address the entire community.

Prioritisation does not mean exclusion. Prioritisation of the needs of young learners does not mean that other learners are excluded, and I expect to see—and, indeed, I see—colleges getting that right again and again.

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Educational Attainment (Children from Areas of Multiple Deprivation)

11. To ask the Scottish Government what steps it is taking to improve the educational attainment of children from areas of multiple deprivation. (S4O-01839)

Raising the educational attainment of pupils from the poorest backgrounds is a key priority. We are delivering the conditions for raising educational attainment through our delivery of curriculum for excellence, and by investing in teaching and leadership through the work of the national partnership group and its follow-up delivery group, the national implementation board.

Our core programmes for children and young people have particular benefits for those from more deprived backgrounds. Those programmes include: getting it right for every child; more choices, more chances; play, talk, read; and the literacy action plan.

Following the work with the raising attainment group—which worked with the Scottish Government last year to provide advice on how best to secure improvements in schools—we are working with key partners to deliver specific actions to secure continuous improvement in the system. Those actions are based on the core value that equity in educational opportunity and access and engagement is the route to success for all.

Does the minister accept that we need to do more to raise attainment in areas of sustained poverty? Can we perhaps adopt a more imaginative approach in order to provide the intensive support that would benefit teachers and learners alike, through things such as breakfast clubs, summer schools and other measures that can create an ethos of high expectation and can inspire young people to reach their full potential, regardless of their social background? Will he give further detailed consideration to those points and tell us how he intends to measure progress over time?

As Jim Eadie does, I recognise that that question goes to the very heart of our having an education system that delivers opportunities for all. I certainly recognise the value of the many activities around the country, such as breakfast clubs, summer schools and other targeted programmes that can all help to provide children with a healthy start not only to their school day, but to their educational day. It is important for authorities and schools to establish evaluated and targeted out-of-school activities. As a Government, we are working with key partners to help to deliver those and other measures, which we will certainly continue to monitor.

Question 12 has not been lodged by Willie Coffey. An explanation has been provided.

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Student Support (Postgraduate Education)

13. To ask the Scottish Government how it supports students wanting to go into postgraduate education. (S4O-01841)

The postgraduate student allowances scheme provides eligible Scotland-domiciled and European Union postgraduate students who are undertaking designated courses with a non means-tested loan of up to £3,400 towards the cost of tuition fees.

The cabinet secretary will be aware that only six courses are funded in the University of the Highlands and Islands and that there are no cost-of-living allowances for those who are required to live away from home. That means that students who live in rural areas and who need to live away from home face financial barriers that prevent them from accessing that type of education.

A number of other sources of finance are available to postgraduates. I regret that it is not possible for the state to do more than it is doing at present, although it should be noted—I am sure that Rhoda Grant just omitted to note it—that we are doing more for postgraduates than any previous Administration did. I am glad that Mr Malik acknowledged that earlier.

If Rhoda Grant would write to me specifically about the courses that she mentioned, I would be happy to write to her to suggest other sources of finance and means of supporting the students. I do that quite often for members who have such concerns.

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College Education (People with Learning Disabilities)

14. To ask the Scottish Government what discussions it has had with stakeholders regarding college education for people with learning disabilities. (S4O-01842)

I met the Scottish Consortium for Learning Disability in December and asked it to consider what further initiatives we might support to help students with learning disabilities to participate in further and higher education. My officials met the same representatives last week and I hope to meet them again within the next few weeks in order to move the matter forward with their proposals, which is what I am looking for.

Is the cabinet secretary aware of Enable’s employability programme for learning disabled people, which is called transitions to employment and which currently runs in eight college regions? Will he consider offering his support to help Enable to extend the programme to benefit an additional 200 future students in more regions?

I am aware of that Enable programme. My officials have already spoken to the Scottish Consortium for Learning Disability about how we might support the sector to extend the benefits to which Joan McAlpine has referred. I hope shortly to confirm the arrangements in a meeting with the Scottish Consortium for Learning Disability and Enable.

There was a 34 per cent cut in places for students with learning disabilities last year. What will the figure be this year?

Provided that we work with the sector, that we show our intention to work with it and that it works with us, we will be able to put the matter into outcome agreements and move it forward. I have found my discussions with the sector to be positive and helpful. They have certainly not been expressed in the terms that Mr Findlay has just used.

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Universities Scotland (Meetings)

15. To ask the Scottish Government when it last met Universities Scotland. (S4O-01843)

I last met Universities Scotland formally on 22 January 2013, and have met representatives informally since.

Universities Scotland submitted evidence to the Finance Committee on the widening access provisions of the Post-16 Education (Scotland) Bill. It said:

“The costs of this measure are described in the summary table as ‘marginal’. We would question this assumption, which has not been the subject of consultation with Universities Scotland or with member institutions.”

What is the Government’s response to that?

I responded to that in answer to a question from the Education and Culture Committee yesterday by saying that I understand that my officials have consulted Universities Scotland. I also placed great stress on the need for us all to work together to widen access.

I am sure that it is unintentional, but the Conservatives sometimes sound as if they do not want access to be widened in Scottish universities, but are in fact prepared to accept any reason and any excuse why it should not happen.

We need to acknowledge, as I said yesterday, that we are not doing nearly as well as we should on the matter; we need measures to do better. The universities are a key part of the solution, but they are not the only solution. We will make progress by ensuring that we underpin widening access agreements in the bill. I hope that the Scottish Conservatives will support that. Otherwise, what I am sure is inadvertent might begin to look as if it is deliberate.

On widening access, does the minister agree with Robin Parker, NUS Scotland’s president? He said in September last year, following Johann Lamont’s cuts commission speech:

“With tuition fees, we will have no hope of ever making university open to people from all backgrounds in Scotland”.

I do agree.

I saw a sign of hope there: Labour members are now groaning when they hear about the cuts commission. If they convert that groan into opposition to some of the things that are being proposed, then clearly we are going to have a better society in Scotland. Perhaps that will also lead them away from the enormous mistake that they made last week of abstaining in the vote on free education in Scotland. That is something on which NUS Scotland will, I am sure, reflect.

The Scottish Government believes in access to education that is based on the ability to learn, not on the ability to pay. We have made a clear promise on that to the people of Scotland; it is a promise that Labour made, too. We will not introduce up-front or back-door tuition fees. I find it astonishing that a group of people who signed a pledge on that a mere two years ago could not actually vote for it when it came to the chamber. [Interruption.] Oh, dear. They should groan at that, too.

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Employment Support for Young People (UK Government)

16. To ask the Scottish Government what work it is carrying out in partnership with the United Kingdom Government to support young people back into employment. (S4O-01844)

Working for growth, the Scottish Government’s employability strategy, recognises that a strong partnership approach is essential to providing effective support to help people back to work. The Department for Work and Pensions is a key partner at both national and local employability partnership level and engages in a range of joint working activities across Scotland, including a pilot to enable early benefit claims for women leaving prison, following the Angiolini commission on women offenders.

We re-established the Scottish employability forum on 31 January 2013 to provide political leadership and oversight on employability and employment within the context of economic recovery. The forum is now chaired jointly by the Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Employment and Sustainable Growth, the Secretary of State for Scotland and Councillor Harry McGuigan, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities spokesperson for community wellbeing.

A number of training courses that are provided by third sector organisations such as the Royston at work project, which I know the minister is aware of, are targeted at young adults who have most difficulty in gaining employment. However, a significant barrier for such schemes is that, unlike in some United Kingdom Government programmes, participants’ benefits are threatened if the course hours mean that the young person is deemed under current rules to be not actively seeking work. Will the minister consider asking the UK Government to develop a system that would allow some young adults on such courses to retain benefits while having the opportunity to improve their employment prospects?

As briefly as possible, minister.

I will indeed be brief.

I will of course happily make representations to the UK Government. The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning has done that previously.

I am familiar with the Royston at work project. I strongly believe that there is a unique role for the voluntary sector in working with young people who are furthest removed from the labour market. When I visited Royston at work, the particular issue was that some young people were indeed denied a place on the scheme as a result of benefit rules, because some of the training involved the young people being at college for more than 16 hours. If the system of employment and skills was fully integrated in Scotland and steered by the Scottish Parliament, we could easily resolve the difficulties.

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Scottish Government Languages Working Group

17. To ask the Scottish Government what progress has been made since November 2012 on implementing the recommendations of the languages working group report. (S4O-01845)

Following the national conference last November, good progress has been made. The 10 primary and secondary schools that are involved in pilot projects continue to demonstrate practical ways in which the one-plus-two languages model may be implemented. They are being supported in that by visits from Education Scotland and Scotland’s national centre for languages, and by Government funding of £120,000 this school year. The pilots will be evaluated in the summer to inform how best the policy can be taken forward.

Local authorities have been asked to assess their current provision and future needs for teacher training and support. To help them do that, they have been provided with an audit tool devised by Scotland’s national centre for languages.

We are continuing discussions with stakeholders on issues including the distribution of £4 million additional funding in 2013-14. The Parliament’s European and External Relations Committee is also making a helpful contribution through its current inquiry into foreign language learning in primary schools.

During a Scotland’s Futures Forum event in the Parliament, there was a presentation by a primary school on what the timetable looked like, and it was extraordinary. It involved three languages—

Can I have a question, please?

Children would come in speaking English and learning Gaelic, and by primary 7 they would have done Spanish and French as well, which is really impressive. When will we have a report back on the pilots? Are any of the schools involved in the Highlands and Islands region?

I am happy to say that Lochyside Roman Catholic primary school in Fort William in the Highlands and Islands is one of the first schools to take part in some of the pilots that I have just mentioned.

There is no reason whatsoever why primary school children cannot happily learn two or three languages—that is the norm in many European countries. Although I appreciate that we have a long way to go, that is a completely valid aspiration for us to have in Scotland, too.

How does the minister respond to parents’ representatives who believe that the Scottish Government’s proposals cannot be implemented or achieved?

I am never disappointed by Hugh Henry’s disappointment. In many respects, he is perhaps one of those people who have nothing to fear but hope itself.

There is every evidence—as I have just outlined—that the one-plus-two languages model is a valuable proposal. We are funding it and I am personally committed to it.