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Chamber and committees

Plenary, 07 Sep 2000

Meeting date: Thursday, September 7, 2000


Contents


Question Time


SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE


Ferry Services

To ask the Scottish Executive when it expects to name the preferred bidder for the northern isles ferry services and when a formal contract is to be issued. (S1O-2159)

The preferred bidder will be decided shortly. The formal contract will be concluded as soon as negotiations with the preferred bidder are finalised.

Tavish Scott:

In passing, I would like to welcome to the visitors' gallery today the convener of Shetland Islands Council, who has a not inconsiderable interest in this issue.

Does the minister accept that there is deep concern in the northern isles over the delay in awarding this contract, and particularly among ferry staff, who at this time are uncertain about the future of their positions? Does she also accept that, if the contract is awarded from this time of year in 2002, it will lead to difficulties for a smooth transition, not least because this is the middle of the livestock season and because of the larger number of fish and salmon exports that occur at this time of year? When can we expect to hear a decision on this important matter?

Sarah Boyack:

Shortly. The issues that Tavish Scott raised give members some sense of the complexity that is involved in making sure that we get this decision right. It is important to us that we do so. On the question of when we move to the next contract, we have had discussions with the current contractor with a view to agreeing an extension of its existing contract to ensure that the whole process is managed smoothly, so that island residents' and visitors' use of the services is not interrupted.

Dr Winnie Ewing (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):

If the consortium, which includes Caledonian MacBrayne and the Royal Bank of Scotland, were to succeed with the tender, where would the discussions that CalMac is currently having on the options on the west coast and the Clyde stand? Would that option be part of a single franchise, or would it stand alone? What about the assets, including the boats? If the option of a ship-holding company is introduced, how does CalMac tie in in the northern isles if it succeeds with the Western Isles and the Clyde?

There would be no tie-in procedure, because we have a clear process for the northern isles ferry contracts. We have been through that process and we are nearing its end, therefore there would be no direct link in the way that is suggested.

Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD):

The minister will be aware that there is some concern in my constituency also regarding possible pier sizes, the installation of new ferries in 2002 and so on. What measures will she take to address those concerns in the Scrabster and north Caithness area?

Sarah Boyack:

Jamie Stone is correct; there are a number of issues that we must ensure we get right. When I visited Scrabster this summer it was useful to see the condition of the existing facilities. The facilities and the ferries are currently under discussion, and we hope to be able to move forward shortly.


Creative Industries

To ask the Scottish Executive how the effectiveness of the £25 million strategy to develop the creative industries in Scotland as drawn up as part of the Scottish Enterprise clusters plan will be measured. (S1O-2184)

The Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Henry McLeish):

The strategy will be monitored against the targets that Scottish Enterprise has set to increase the sector by 30 per cent over the next five years and to raise its export performance to 15 per cent of the Scottish total. Individual projects will be monitored on a regular basis to ensure that strategy targets are met.

Allan Wilson:

As the minister will know, Scottish Enterprise predicts that the creative industries are set to grow significantly faster than the economy as a whole. Does the minister recognise that many employees in the creative sector have unstructured and unconventional career patterns? How does the Executive plan to support those individuals and sustain that employment growth?

Henry McLeish:

I recognise Allan Wilson's point. It is important that, for an industry of almost 100,000 people that contributes £5 billion to the Scottish economy, we make special efforts to ensure that the choice and flexibility that Allan Wilson has suggested is in place. The spirit of the question is very much in the spirit of lifelong learning: that people have real choices and that those choices are suited to the type of skills, ambitions and aspirations that are found in the creative economy.


Dental Services

To ask the Scottish Executive what steps it is taking to improve emergency dental services in Aberdeen. (S1O-2172)

The Deputy Minister for Community Care (Iain Gray):

It is for Grampian Primary Care NHS Trust to make arrangements for emergency provision in its area. Dentists in the Grampian area who have patients registered with them under national health service capitation or continuing care arrangements are required to provide emergency cover to those patients under their NHS terms of service. In addition, the trust has arrangements in place to provide emergency dental services for unregistered patients and is currently discussing with the Executive the development of a more comprehensive emergency dental service for Grampian.

Lewis Macdonald:

I thank the minister for his reply and welcome the fact that those discussions are taking place.

Does the minister recognise that dentists in Aberdeen provide more out-of-hours care for dental patients than is provided anywhere else in Scotland? Grampian doctors on call service offers an excellent out-of-hours medical service at the new primary care resource base at Foresterhill health centre. Will he take this opportunity to extend the principle of that kind of out-of-hours service to providing dental treatment of the same high quality?

Iain Gray:

I acknowledge Mr Macdonald's interest in that area—I have answered questions from him before. I agree that the out-of-hours general medical practitioners service in Grampian and Aberdeen is particularly good. I asked my officials to speak to the primary care trust and it has assured me that it is considering that service, with the intention of establishing whether it can build out-of-hours emergency dental services in a similar fashion.

Mrs Margaret Ewing (Moray) (SNP):

Does the minister agree that part of the problem is that fewer than 50 per cent of patients in the Grampian area are registered with national health service dentists, which is the result of successive Governments' policies on charging? What action is being taken to improve that situation in the Grampian area?

This issue is particularly important in my constituency, where visiting consultants are crucial. If we had the correct number of orthodontists, we could avoid some of the emergencies to which the minister has referred. The Minister for Health and Community Care promised me action on 6 March. Is the Deputy Minister for Community Care satisfied with the progress that has been made to ensure that we have the correct number of orthodontists to serve the area?

Iain Gray:

We have begun to make some progress. Progress could always be faster—we would always like it to be faster. We recently published "An Action Plan for Dental Services in Scotland", which contains some immediate measures that will be taken. The plan has been discussed and agreed with the British Dental Association. It includes a review of some of the issues that Mrs Ewing raises, for example access to NHS dentists. Measures are in progress—I hope that we will see the benefits of them soon.

Mr Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):

The minister will recall that I asked him about rural dental services in July. I lodged a written question on whether the Executive had any plans to introduce a dental strategy for rural Scotland. The reply referred me to the document he mentioned, in which there is only one reference to rural dental services. My question is still whether the minister has any plans to tackle the specific problems of providing an effective NHS dental service to rural Scotland.

The question is about services in Aberdeen city. Does the minister have a reply?

Iain Gray:

It is a fair comment from Mr Rumbles: access in rural areas in particular is not prominent in the document. However, improving access to dental services is part of the main thrust of our future work. I note his point that there are particular problems in rural Scotland—we must take cognisance of that.


National Health Service

4. Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether the priorities for health boards and trusts of reducing waiting lists and improving service delivery to patients are compatible with meeting financial targets including, in many cases, recovering from a deficit. (S1O-2175)

The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon):

Yes. Sound financial management is key to the effectiveness of any organisation, including the NHS. Record additional investment, together with radical reform and effective management, will deliver improvements in service delivery to patients.

Irene McGugan:

I thank the minister for her answer.

Will the minister give an assurance to the patients of Tayside, for example, that efforts by Tayside University Hospitals NHS Trust to reduce a waiting list of more than 8,000, while tackling a budget deficit of at least £14 million, will not be at the expense of the withdrawal of certain procedures, refusal to treat certain conditions or removal of patients from the waiting list? In short, can she guarantee that there will be no reduction in standards of health care or service delivery?

Susan Deacon:

The guarantee that I can give, and that I have given in this chamber on many occasions, is that the Executive will continue to allocate record additional sums of money to the NHS in Tayside, just as it will to other parts of the country. We will continue to work through the measures that we have taken, such as the task force that is working in Tayside, in order to ensure that effective financial management systems are put in place. We will continue to drive effective change in services, as we have done in other parts of the country.

In order to provide the guarantee that Irene McGugan is looking for, an effective health care system must operate in Tayside for the benefit of patients. We are working in that direction and I hope that local management will continue to do so.

Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):

Will the health boards and trusts be allowed to spend the resources that are to be redistributed under the Arbuthnott report in line with their clinical priorities, or will the minister issue more guidelines, targets, aims and objectives? Will the drive to achieve efficiency savings be relaxed under the new guidelines?

Susan Deacon:

It is interesting that many of the same members who look to the Executive to achieve change, set targets and drive forward improvements in waiting times seem to have difficulties when we put in place measures to ensure that those steps are taken in every part of the country.

Only today, we have seen in the Arbuthnott review major radical change in the way in which we allocate NHS resources across Scotland, ensuring that those resources are allocated on the basis of need. Of course it is for local health boards and trusts to take decisions that will meet local need, but we will continue to drive change at a strategic, national level, to ensure that waiting times are reduced, that health inequalities are tackled and that clinical priorities—cancer, coronary heart disease and mental health—are also tackled effectively. It is our duty to do so.

Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab):

Further to the minister's comments on waiting lists and service delivery to patients, will she outline what measures, if any, to reduce waiting times for GP appointments are being considered, and whether performance targets are set and monitored for those appointments?

Susan Deacon:

Tackling and reducing waiting times at every stage of a patient's experience is an absolute priority for the Scottish Executive and for the NHS in Scotland. I am pleased that the most recent figures show that steady progress is being made in reducing waiting times. An important part of that progress is a reduction in waiting times for GP appointments, but we want reduced waiting times throughout the system, from GP practice to outpatient clinic and from hospital to home. Our modernisation agenda for the NHS in Scotland looks at the patient's journey across all those areas.


Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982

To ask the Scottish Executive what plans it has to review the Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982. (S1O-2156)

I am pleased to say that the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities has agreed to join the Scottish Executive in a task group, which will review the licensing provisions in the Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982.

Michael Matheson:

When I wrote to the Deputy Minister for Local Government earlier this year on behalf of a constituent who was attacked by a dog, he advised me that one of the pieces of legislation that could be used against dangerous dogs was the Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982. I took his advice and pursued the matter with Central Scotland police, but the police's legal advice was that the relevant section of that act is not compliant with the European convention on human rights. Will the minister undertake a review of the relevant section of the Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982, in order to ensure that there are proper provisions in place to deal with dangerous dogs and, in particular, that those provisions are ECHR compliant?

I am happy to say that that element of the legislation will be considered as part of the task force's work. If, in the interim, Mr Matheson would like me to encourage dogs to heed the ECHR, I shall be happy to do so.


Sutherland Report

To ask the Scottish Executive what progress has been made regarding the implementation of the Sutherland report on long-term care for the elderly. (S1O-2192)

The Deputy Minister for Community Care (Iain Gray):

We are implementing one of the two main recommendations on the regulation of care. The recommendations on charging for care are being considered in the spending review. We are making considerable progress in implementing other recommendations.

Mr Hamilton:

Is the Minister aware of the 18-month delay in responding to the issue of charging? Does he accept that an irresistible coalition has been formed in this chamber to call for full implementation of the Sutherland recommendations? Does he know that members of every party in this chamber—including his coalition partners and most of his Labour back benchers—want full implementation? Will he support the key recommendation that nursing care and personal care should be free?

Iain Gray:

There is no delay. The charging recommendation was always going to be part of the next comprehensive spending review process, which is now coming to a close. I made that clear on 2 December 1999, and again on 10 February, 2 March and 9 March this year. It does not matter how many times Mr Hamilton or his colleagues ask the question; that has been the clear answer, and there has been no delay. When the time comes, we will respond.

Will the minister explain why there appears to be a continuing delay if there is a decisive majority in this Parliament in favour of immediate implementation?

Iain Gray:

I have already explained that there is no delay. The process that is being followed is the process that we have always described. I am puzzled by the contention that there is a demonstrative majority in this Parliament; I do not think that that contention has ever been tested.

Dennis Canavan (Falkirk West):

Is the minister aware that some old people are literally worried sick about how they are going to meet the costs, if and when they are taken into residential care? Will the Scottish Executive therefore implement Professor Sutherland's recommendations in full, particularly the recommendation that personal care costs should be met from public funds? Will he do that and do it soon, rather than simply follow the shabby compromise announced by the Government at Westminster?

Iain Gray:

I spend a great deal of my time meeting older people, their organisations and those working with them, so I am conscious of their concern that the quality and extent of care for the elderly should be extended. Whether the Sutherland recommendation on personal care would be the best and most effective way of doing that is another question altogether, and one that we shall answer when we report on the spending review, as we have repeatedly undertaken to do.


Genetically Modified Organisms

To ask the Scottish Executive what consultation was carried out with the communities neighbouring Rosskill on the Black Isle before it was decided to conduct GM crop trials there. (S1O-2169)

The Minister for Rural Affairs (Ross Finnie):

There is, I regret, no statutory provision for carrying out public consultation under the regulations and legislation governing this matter. I recognise that there is a real distinction to be made between proper consultation and public information and, in the absence of a proper consultative framework, I have taken steps to ensure that meetings will be held in the local communities where all the crop trials are to take place, with a view to increasing public access to information on the topic.

Maureen Macmillan:

Does the minister accept that the communities in the Black Isle are extremely angry and frustrated? Given that Highland Council has tried unsuccessfully to have the trials halted, and given the concerns of the local MP and MSPs, does he agree that the situation is extremely unhappy? Does he further agree with the position of members of the European Parliament, who have called for measures to ensure that consultation procedures are conducted under clear rules of openness and transparency with full public access?

Ross Finnie:

Let me reiterate an important point. The one thing on which the Scottish Executive and those in the Black Isle are absolutely agreed is that the prime concern is about danger to public health or to environmental safety. In discharging my responsibilities in this area, I take advice from the Food Standards Agency and from the Advisory Committee on Releases to the Environment. Unless I receive totally unambiguous advice that the trials will pose no risk to public health or to environmental safety, I would not and will not consider granting those trials.

I will deal with the second issue, which I regard as unsatisfactory, which is the fact that although EU directive 90/220/EEC refers obliquely to public consultation, there is no legislative framework for carrying that out. The Environmental Protection Act 1990, which gave rise to the implementation of that directive, is silent on that matter which makes it extremely difficult.

Public consultation must be a process in which the consultee believes he or she can influence the outcome. It would be an act of sheer hypocrisy for me to hold a meeting in public and claim that that was public consultation. That is why I have stuck to providing information because I would be misleading the public if I were to do otherwise.

After I have so satisfied myself in terms of the regulation, there are no powers within that regulatory framework that would allow me to defer or postpone a decision.

In view of the fact that the Scottish Natural Heritage northern board has now withdrawn its approval for the GM crop trials at Rosskill farm in the Black Isle, will the minister reconsider his position and stop this doubtful experiment?

Ross Finnie:

I regret to advise John Farquhar Munro that that is not quite the case. The board has not withdrawn its advice to me. There is clearly a public dispute between members of SNH and its board, which is not in my domain. I have not received a withdrawal of its scientific advice; therefore it does not alter my position.

Alex Johnstone (North-East Scotland) (Con):

Does the minister remember that we last heard a full debate on this subject on 23 March, when we debated GM science? That debate took place in the wake of the announcement of GM crop field trials in Aberdeenshire. He may remember that during that debate there was widespread support for the motion, which included—I notice on the list that I have in front of me—support from Maureen Macmillan and John Farquhar Munro. Does he acknowledge that in other chambers there has been a sudden change of heart on this issue? Does he agree that there is, in the fact that many of these members were willing to support crop trials in Aberdeenshire but speak out in this chamber against crop trials on the Black Isle, an element of the most cynical hypocrisy?

Ross Finnie:

I have to say that Alex Johnstone is getting more like Geoffrey Howe every day. That kind of question is very much like being savaged by a dead sheep. I do not think that Alex Johnstone is reading or listening to what people are saying. The biggest single anxiety arising from this process is, without any doubt, the absence of a statutory framework for public consultation. It does not exist. I do not think that members would expect me, as a minister, to act unlawfully. We have every sympathy, in that there is all sorts of misleading and unhelpful information as to the nature of those trials. For example, the trials are not to test safety in terms of public health or the environment; they are to test biodiversity in the locality of the trial site. If that public information were more widely available, I think that many of the concerns would dissipate.

Richard Lochhead (North-East Scotland) (SNP):

I appreciate that the issue of GM crop trials is difficult for Ross Finnie. After all, Charles Kennedy, his UK leader, is against the trials and Ross Finnie here in Edinburgh is for the trials. John Farquhar Munro in the Highlands is taking on board local concerns, while Nora Radcliffe in the north-east of Scotland is ignoring local concerns.

Can the minister tell us exactly what Liberal Democrat policy is on consultation with local communities? Will he undertake to come to Daviot in Gordon in the north-east of Scotland, and to the Highlands, to appear in person at a public meeting and hear local concerns for the first time?

Ross Finnie:

There are two matters of substance in this issue, which both John Farquhar Munro and Charles Kennedy have raised. The first matter, of paramount importance, is that of public health and the possible danger to environmental safety. Both my colleagues are concerned about it. I can only repeat that under no circumstances would I authorise any trial where I did not have independent advice from the Food Standards Agency and the Advisory Committee on Releases to the Environment—[Interruption.]

I have made it clear that under the legislation I do not have power to delay the trial.

The second issue is public consultation. One can hold a meeting in which one seeks to inform, but one should not dress that up as an act of consultation, in which participants have a legal means of influencing the decision under the regulations. I am willing to hold public information meetings.

As Richard Lochhead is well aware, John Farquhar Munro and I have met the convener of the Highland Council and others. It was at that meeting that we agreed the timetable for such public meetings.


Liquid Petroleum Gas (Conversion Grants)

To ask the Scottish Executive how many grants have been paid to convert motor vehicles to use liquid petroleum gas and whether it has set or will set a target for the number of such grants which are to be paid in future. (S1O-2178)

The Deputy Minister for Highlands and Islands and Gaelic (Mr Alasdair Morrison):

Since 1997, 390 vehicles have been converted in Scotland with the assistance of grant under the Energy Saving Trust's powershift scheme. No numerical target is set for grants as the amount that is payable is dependent on the emission reductions that are achieved by the type of vehicle that is converted and the cost of each conversion.

Fergus Ewing:

Does the minister agree that liquid petroleum gas is a matter of complete irrelevance for the overwhelming majority of motorists in the Highlands and Islands, who pay the highest fuel tax in the world? Now that we are approaching the £4 gallon and the £1 billion millennium dome, can new Labour and its Liberal colleagues say whether they will take or promote any action to end the discrimination against motorists in the Highlands and Islands? If so, in which millennium?

Mr Morrison:

Whenever I hear Fergus Ewing talking about fuel, I am inclined to stand up and yawn, but I suspect that that is not an acceptable response.

The Highlands is now the place where one can access the cheapest fuel in the United Kingdom. I am disappointed that Mr Ewing cannot welcome a fantastic initiative by the UK Government, the Scottish Executive and the oil companies. I wish that he had the common sense of another Opposition politician, Mary Scanlon, who had the good decency to welcome the initiative and recognise its merits. I wish that Mr Ewing had employed a new speechwriter over the summer.

The question is about LPG grants, and I call Rhoda Grant.

Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):

Can the minister give an assurance that the Scottish Tourist Board will highlight the availability of LPG throughout the Highlands and Islands? Given that many European motorists use dual-fuel cars, that could give a much-needed boost to tourism in the area.

Mr Morrison:

Mrs Grant raises a very important point. Two weeks ago at the opening of the first station in the Highlands, in Evanton, I was struck by the fact that it had sold 2,000 litres of fuel in two weeks without any pre-publicity or advertising. We have to appreciate that many motorists across the EU use bi-fuel cars. For example, about 1 million motorists in Italy, and 500,000 in the Netherlands, which are both important tourism markets for Scotland, use such cars. Sarah Boyack made that point to the Scottish Tourist Board at a meeting earlier this week, and I will be happy to reinforce that message next week when I discuss various matters with Lord Gordon, the chairman of the Scottish Tourist Board.


Water (Fluoridation)

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it intends to proceed with adding fluoride to Scotland's drinking water supplies and what the exact status is of any preparations for such fluoridation. (S1O-2201)

The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon):

The Executive's programme for government promised a widespread public consultation on fluoridation as part of a wider package of measures to improve dental and oral health. That remains our position. Arrangements for the consultation will be announced in due course.

Robin Harper:

Will the minister concede that tooth decay in children is mainly the result of poverty, poor diet and poor dental care and that fluoridating drinking water will only cover up those rather more fundamental problems? Will she pay attention to bullet point 3 on page 7 of "An Action Plan for Dental Services in Scotland"? Before charging ahead with fluoridation, will she consider properly cheaper and more effective alternatives, such as breakfast clubs, a huge expansion of the programme of providing free toothbrushes and toothpaste to children and ensuring access to fresh fruit and vegetables?

Susan Deacon:

I am pleased to confirm that we have already moved forward on the examples that Robin Harper highlights. Only a few weeks ago, I announced our proposals—through the additional investment that we have allocated for improving health and taking forward our public health programme—for moving towards a massive expansion of the number of breakfast clubs in Scotland and to provide free toothbrushes and toothpaste to more than 100,000 Scottish children by 2001.

It is important to acknowledge that we recognise also that action across a broad range of fronts is required if we are to improve Scotland's dental health record. I hope that this is an area in which we can get agreement across parties, because I do not think that we disagree on the objective.

Let me also take this opportunity to remind members what we must tackle. More than 60 per cent of three-year-olds in disadvantaged areas of Scotland have experienced dental decay. Children in our poorest areas have three to four times the amount of dental decay of their counterparts in the most affluent areas. I am determined that we should take action right across the board to do something about that. I hope that colleagues will join me.

Mr Andy Kerr (East Kilbride) (Lab):

Given that more than half of five-year-olds still have signs of dental disease and that 18 per cent of adults have no teeth, does the minister agree that improving children's dental health is an absolute priority? Will she reassure me that the Executive is making progress towards its target of 60 per cent of five-year-olds having no dental disease by 2010?

Susan Deacon:

The measures to which I alluded a moment ago are evidence of the fact that we are committed to working actively towards that target. I am pleased by the constructive discussions that we have had with the British Dental Association and others to ensure that we move forward. Of course, there must be measures to improve dental and oral health, but we must also have measures to improve our children's diet. We are working across all of those fronts and will continue to do so.

Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):

Does the minister agree that fluoridation of Scotland's water supplies would be mass medication without consent, which would severely violate civil liberties and individual choice and would be an example of the worst excesses of the nanny state that new Labour epitomises?

Susan Deacon:

The short answer is no. However, I appreciate that people have different and very strongly held views on the issue, which is precisely why the Executive is committed to moving forward on the basis of consultation. That is the basis of the discussions that we have had in recent months with the BDA and others.

I have examined the evidence closely and believe that there is very strong evidence to suggest that fluoridation can have a dramatic impact on the health of our children's teeth. I repeat, however, that this is a matter to be decided on a cross-party basis in consultation with people throughout Scotland. That is why it is important that we have a well-informed and mature debate on the issue and I hope that Brian Monteith will raise his game in that respect in the months ahead.


National Health Service

To ask the Scottish Executive why the national health service waiting lists in Tayside have risen by over 35 per cent during the past 12 months. (S1O-2176)

The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon):

The waiting list increase in Tayside has been due primarily to the effect of winter pressures last year and shortages of staff in specific specialties. Today, a performance management team from the health department is meeting the NHS in Tayside to examine the plans for investment and action to reduce waiting in the months ahead.

Shona Robison:

Today, I received a letter from Derek Maclean, the medical director of Tayside University Hospitals NHS Trust, which states:

"I share your concerns over funding pressures and possible impacts on future waiting lists."

Given the concerns that are being expressed by the medical profession, will the minister guarantee that the cutbacks resulting from the £14 million deficit will not lead to further increases in waiting lists in Tayside and will she further agree to allow the trust—as a bare minimum—an additional year in which to try to pay off the deficit in Tayside?

Susan Deacon:

I repeat my earlier point—and will keep repeating it until members recognise the facts of the situation—that substantial increased investment has gone into Tayside, as it has into other parts of the NHS. It is important that that increased investment is effectively managed. Although we have already taken action by working with local trusts to ensure that that happens, we must ensure that local management in Tayside manages resources effectively to protect and improve services for people throughout the region. We will continue to do that.

Mr John McAllion (Dundee East) (Lab):

Common sense suggests that having to reduce a £14 million deficit over two years must affect the trust's ability to deliver services and reduce waiting lists. However, does the minister accept that there is a national and a local responsibility for that deficit, because the management executive in Edinburgh approved the use of one-off capital receipts to fund recurring expenditure that was not included in the revenue budget of Tayside University Hospitals NHS Trust?

Furthermore, has not the time come to tackle the problem that is at the root of the trouble in Tayside, which is the problem of trying to run a major teaching hospital such as Ninewells on the basis of a population of only 400,000? If acute services in Scotland are being delivered through a network of four or five big teaching hospitals throughout the country, why do we need 15 health boards and why do not those health boards match the delivery of acute services across the country?

Susan Deacon:

As ever, John McAllion raises a challenging range of issues, and I will do my best in the couple of minutes that are available to address each of them in turn.

First, in the report that was published by the task force that has examined the NHS in Tayside, there were a number of comments about systems within the health department. I am pleased to say that action is being taken in that respect. Changes to the structure of the department and in its personnel have been made and should be reflected in national improvements in performance management in the months ahead.

There was a practice—which was widespread in the NHS in Scotland under the Tories and the internal market—in which substantial sums of money were transferred from capital into revenue to the detriment of long-term investment in the service. We have changed the rules on that this year for the first time so that capital investment is precisely that and we reinvest in building the service.

On the wider questions that were raised by John McAllion, a core part of our agenda for the modernisation of the NHS in Scotland—as I set out in the debate on the last day before the recess—is to examine the structure, systems and governance of the NHS in Scotland to ensure that it is as effective as possible in the years to come. We will develop that debate in the months ahead.


Roads (A96)

To ask the Scottish Executive what plans it has to improve road safety on the A96 between Inverurie and Huntly in the light of the five fatalities that have occurred on that stretch of road in recent weeks. (S1O-2166)

The Minister for Transport and the Environment (Sarah Boyack):

As part of an on-going programme of works to improve safety on the A96 trunk road, two schemes between Inverurie and Huntly are being progressed.

A junction improvement scheme at Slioch crossroads will be constructed this year at an estimated cost of £370,000. In addition, it is anticipated that construction work on the Newtongarry climbing lane scheme will commence in spring 2001, at an estimated cost of £3 million.

The Scottish Executive is also preparing the Coachford alignment improvement and climbing lane scheme, which is approximately five miles north of Huntly, at an estimated cost of £3.5 million. It is expected that draft orders will be published in the summer of 2001 and—subject to the completion of the statutory procedures—construction should start in 2002.

Although those measures to improve the A96 are welcome, does the minister agree that they are only interim measures and that a major arterial route such as the A96 should be dual carriageway along its entire length?

Sarah Boyack:

Although that has been considered, traffic flows meant that it was not justified as a priority at the time. However, I can assure Nora Radcliffe that we will continue to identify safety improvement schemes and programme them into the system. We will also review the experiences of last month—the accidents on that stretch of road—and will include the results of that review in our future programme of works.

Brian Adam (North-East Scotland) (SNP):

How many more sets of flowers at the side of the road will I have to see before the minister starts taking action on some of the roads in the north-east? Although I welcome the fact that there will be some improvements on the A96, will she conduct a safety audit on the road? Furthermore, will she publish the contents of that audit, which she failed to do with the safety audit of the A90?

Sarah Boyack:

The purpose of identifying safety audits is to analyse the opportunities to improve stretches of trunk roads. That is an opportunity to make sure that we tackle those roads for the future. As I outlined in my answer to Nora Radcliffe, we are making significant improvements to the A96 and will continue to do so.