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Chamber and committees

Plenary, 30 Sep 1999

Meeting date: Thursday, September 30, 1999


Contents


Question Time


SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE

The first item this afternoon is question time and I make my usual plea for short questions and answers. I call Duncan Hamilton.


Islands Needs Allowance

To ask the Scottish Executive what support it is giving to the efforts of Argyll and Bute Council to secure special islands needs allowance for the area. (S1O-391) The Presiding Officer: Mr Jack McConnell?

Members:

Where is he?



Phone Beattie's. [Laughter.]

Would somebody else like to answer?



Are you deputising?

I appear to be.

In that case, I am happy to call you.

The First Minister:

I am grateful to you, Presiding Officer, particularly as you have been so helpful and useful today—sorry, perhaps I should not use the word useful, as it now has other connotations. [Laughter.]

The Executive has been discussing the special islands needs allowance with Argyll and Bute Council for some time. We recognise that the council feels strongly on the issue, which is still the subject of discussion and consideration.

Mr Hamilton:

I am not sure which of Mr McConnell's diaries his current appointment was in, but I note that he is now here. [Laughter.]

Does the minister—whichever of the two ministers cares to answer—recognise the threat to the sustainability of island communities caused by the cuts in the budget for Argyll and Bute Council? Does he recognise the absurdity of a council that has 27 islands under its jurisdiction getting not one penny of the £90 million that has been allocated since the reorganisation of local government? Will he recognise the necessity for an interim payment to Argyll and Bute Council to stop rural schools shutting and island communities withering?

The First Minister:

I certainly recognise the strength of feeling in Argyll and Bute. As Mr Hamilton will recognise, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities has a substantial say in the distribution of the funds that are available. The special islands needs allowance is top-sliced in the distribution formula and it therefore has an effect on other councils. Obviously we must discuss those matters and consider them carefully. I cannot undertake to make a provisional payment that would prejudge any outcome, but I have no doubt that Argyll and Bute Council will be suitably generous in its appreciation of Mr Hamilton's efforts.


Accident and Emergency Units

2. Kay Ullrich (West of Scotland) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it can give an assurance that plans are in place to ensure that there is no repeat during the coming Christmas and new year period of the situation experienced in accident and emergency units over the last Christmas and new year period. (S1O-379) The Deputy Minister for Community Care (Iain Gray): Every winter places additional demands on the NHS and I pay tribute to the NHS staff who respond to those peaks in demand year in, year out. We require all parts of the NHS in Scotland to prepare plans for the coming months. Officials are currently visiting all health boards and trusts to ensure that adequate local arrangements are in place.

Members will wish to note that agreement has been reached with staff in the NHS on pay for the millennium period, which will ensure that our health services are able to operate effectively throughout the Christmas and new year period.

Kay Ullrich:

Will the minister comment on the current admission problems in Scottish hospitals? Will he tell us why some hospitals are already operating a non-admissions policy for elective surgery? Why, for example, in the past two weeks, has Edinburgh royal infirmary been on red alert and unable to accept any admissions because no beds are available? If that is happening in September, what will be the state of affairs come the so-called peak period of Christmas and new year?

Iain Gray:

The NHS has to deal with admissions day in, day out, year in, year out, and there will be times of peak demand. In every NHS service—be it acute services or psychiatric services—there are contingency plans that can be put in place. As I have said, officials are speaking to all health boards and trusts, including the ones to which Mrs Ullrich referred. They will check the existing situation and the plans for the coming months to ensure that contingency plans will allow hospitals to cope with the peak period over Christmas and

new year and throughout the winter months.

As I said, if this is happening now—

Excuse me, Mrs Ullrich.


Students Awards Agency

3. Mr Andrew Welsh (Angus) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive what the current backlog for processing applications with the Student Awards Agency for Scotland is and when it is expected to be cleared. (S1O-380) The Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Nicol Stephen): As at 27 September, the agency had received just under 102,000 applications for student support and had processed or otherwise actioned some 89,000— 88 per cent—of them. I would like to give an exact date by which the 13,000 or so outstanding applications will be processed, but some are late and in other cases the full information has only just been received. Thirteen thousand applications represent about 14 days' work. The only assurance I can give is that the remaining cases will be dealt with within the agency's target time of 28 days of receipt.

Mr Welsh:

One college was told by the awards agency a week ago that there is a five-week backlog of unopened mail. In the past, it has taken until October or November before such backlogs have been cleared up. Is the minister aware of the enormous impact any delay can have on individual students and their families? Will he take every step to ensure that the backlog is cleared up urgently?

Nicol Stephen:

I give every assurance that action will be taken to process the outstanding backlog as quickly as possible. Where there are particular cases of hardship, temporary funding can be given by institutions from their access funds. I share Andrew Welsh's concern and everything will be done to process the 13,000 outstanding applications as quickly as possible.


Secretary of State for Scotland (Meeting)

To ask the Scottish Executive what is on the agenda for the next meeting between the First Minister and the Secretary of State for Scotland. (S1O-383) The First Minister (Donald Dewar): Matters of mutual interest.

Dennis Canavan:

Is it not rather humiliating that the First Minister apparently required the intervention of Downing Street to bury the hatchet with the Secretary of State for Scotland? Will the First Minister tell the Secretary of State for Scotland that the First Minister's first loyalty is to this Parliament and to the people of Scotland? The forthcoming memorandum of understanding should make that absolutely clear, even though the First Minister might feel tempted to bury the hatchet in John Reid's heid. [Laughter.]

The First Minister:

I think it entirely appropriate that people should laugh at Mr Canavan as he makes such statements. I do not regard that as a very serious contribution. I work very closely with the Secretary of State for Scotland. It is important that I do so and in the interests of this Parliament, of the country and of the United Kingdom. I am pleased to say that I will continue to work very closely with him and enjoy and benefit from the process.


Paisley

5. Hugh Henry (Paisley South) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will back the campaign organised by the Paisley Daily Express, "It pays to be in Paisley". (S1O-408) The Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Nicol Stephen): As an MSP from the north-east it seems appropriate for me to say that the Scottish Executive commends the campaign "It pays to be in Paisley" as promoting a positive image of Paisley as a place to live, to work, visit and invest in, and as complementing other initiatives being taken to achieve the physical regeneration and economic renewal of the town.

Hugh Henry:

While the minister acknowledges the contribution made by the Paisley Daily Express campaign in promoting Paisley and its economy, does he agree that traffic access to Paisley is critical for the survival of its economy? If so, does he agree that urgent action is necessary to tackle traffic congestion on the M8? Otherwise, not only Paisley's economy will be prejudiced—so will the future of Glasgow airport.

That is a question for another minister.


Local Enterprise Companies

6. Alex Neil (Central Scotland) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether local enterprise companies in central Scotland are achieving their performance targets. (S1O-394) The Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Henry McLeish): The setting and monitoring of performance targets for local enterprise companies is a matter for Scottish Enterprise. I understand from Scottish Enterprise that Enterprise Ayrshire, Forth Valley Enterprise and Lanarkshire Development Agency are on course to achieve their operating targets for 1999-2000. I will ask Scottish Enterprise to provide Alex Neil with more detailed information.

Alex Neil:

Can the minister confirm whether Strathclyde police is currently investigating irregularities in training contracts awarded by Lanarkshire Development Agency? If it is, will he advise when he will be in a position to make a statement on the outcome of those inquiries? Will he confirm that no similar irregularities are present in the training contracts awarded by other local enterprise companies?

Henry McLeish:

I have always believed that Parliaments are serious forums for serious business. In view of the seriousness of the issue that Mr Neil has raised, it would have been courteous of him to inform me of his question. I would like to think that the matter was raised out of concern about the operation of enterprise companies. Suffice to say, I will examine the matters that he raised.


Local Government Funding

7. Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD):

To ask the Scottish Executive how much flexibility local authorities are allowed in respect of the indicative spending guidelines it sets for each authority. (S1O-406) The Minister for Finance (Mr Jack McConnell): I expect all councils to budget within guideline. However, where a council exceeds its guideline I will consider each case on its merits before deciding what action, if any, to take.

Nora Radcliffe:

In that case, why have historically low-spending councils such as Aberdeenshire and Perth and Kinross had their budgets held at levels close to the grant aided expenditure figure while other councils have been allowed to spend much more than the GAE figure?

Mr McConnell:

Aberdeenshire and Perth and Kinross were spoken to last year because they had exceeded the guideline figures that they were well aware of in advance. We received good submissions from them in the summer asking us to consider that position. I will respond to them within the next week or so to inform them of my decision on next year's budgets.


Housing

8. Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive what plans it has to amend local authority regulations to ensure safety in houses of multiple occupation. (S1O-388) The Minister for Communities (Ms Wendy Alexander): I can announce today that I plan to introduce mandatory licensing of houses in multiple occupation. The new licensing scheme will cover fire safety, the physical condition of such buildings, the nuisance caused to neighbours and the availability and cleanliness of sanitary and cooking facilities.

Can I say to the minister that I welcome—

No, you cannot say anything to the minister: you can ask a question.

I shall ask a question. How many households will be affected by the proposed legislation?

Ms Alexander:

Under the previous, voluntary scheme, a mere 287 houses were registered. Under the new scheme, we envisage that somewhere between 7,000 and 10,000 properties in multiple occupation will be covered. I know that there are many students in the member's constituency. I expect that when Scottish students return to classes this time next year there will be a mandatory licensing scheme in place.


East Ayrshire Council

9. Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive what recommendations have been made by the Accounts Commission regarding the financial problems of East Ayrshire Council, and what plans the Executive has to implement those recommendations. (S1O-412) The Presiding Officer: I call Frank Macavity— [Laughter.] I mean Frank McAveety.

The Deputy Minister for Local Government (Mr Frank McAveety):

Presiding Officer, I am extremely fond of TS Eliot's work and I recommend that you read it—[Laughter.] There is a wonderful opportunity to transfer the letters of TS Eliot for some other offensive title.

I understand that East Ayrshire Council's external auditor, who is appointed by the Accounts Commission, has made a wide range of recommendations to the council as part of the audit process. I understand also that the recommendations include a request for the preparation of an action plan to deal with a backlog of benefit cases. The controller of audit also submitted a statutory report regarding East Ayrshire's direct labour organisation to the Accounts Commission in December 1998, and the commission asked the controller to report back within a year. It is not appropriate for me to become involved in the audit process, as it is a matter between a council and its auditor.

Mr Ingram:

Is not the minister aware that the financial mismanagement, which prompted the intervention of the Accounts Commission, is continuing, to the point where council services and jobs are being destroyed? He gives the distinct impression of sitting on his hands while that is going on.

Mr McAveety:

I often sit in the most appropriate fashion for this Parliament—on my bottom.

We are aware of concerns raised by the Accounts Commission. This is a local matter, which the local authority, through the establishment of a working group involving elected members and officers, will address. I am pretty certain that East Ayrshire will address the concerns raised by Mr Ingram.

Will Mr McAveety take any responsibility for what is happening in East Ayrshire Council?

Mr McAveety:

I will clarify the roles of the minister and the local authority. The local authority is responsible for its audited accounts and will be held responsible for them when they are published. We have encouraged the local authority to ensure that it meets the specifications set by the Accounts Commission. I am sure that East Ayrshire Council is endeavouring to do that.


Fish Farming

10. Mr Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether, in the light of the £9 million aid package on offer to the salmon farming industry, it will consider the provision of support to wild fishery management in the west Highlands to reverse the decline of salmon and sea trout stocks. (S1O-399) The Deputy Minister for Rural Affairs (Mr John Home Robertson): We are concerned about the decline in wild salmon and sea trout stocks, so we have established a working group which includes Scottish Natural Heritage and the Scottish Environment Protection Agency as well as salmon fishery interests. I look forward to receiving its recommendations shortly.

Does the minister accept and understand the value of wild salmon and sea trout stocks to the overall Scottish rural economy, which in 1997 was estimated by the Nixon task force report to be in excess of £70 million annually?

Mr Home Robertson:

We appreciate that this is an important resource and we are concerned about the drastic decline of those stocks. That is why we set up the tripartite group, from which we are looking forward to getting practical recommendations—I hope next month. We will look to act on those recommendations.


Pig Industry

To ask the Scottish Executive what measures it plans to put in place to improve the competitiveness of the pig industry in Scotland. (S1O-398)

The Minister for Rural Affairs (Ross Finnie):

Competitiveness is a complex issue which the industry itself needs constantly to keep under review, taking account of a range of factors such as input costs, productivity, general efficiency and marketing strategy. For the Executive's part, as announced on 20 September, a review of the industry's costs and burdens in relation to meat hygiene regulations is now under way. The Executive will also continue to work with the industry to promote home-produced pigmeat and pigmeat products that are produced to the highest welfare and feeding standards in Europe.

Mr Swinney:

I thank the minister for his answer, and for the announcement that he made some time ago. Does he accept that due to the superior animal welfare regulations that exist in the pig industry in Scotland, there is a case for some of the cost of this regime to be carried by the Executive? What action has he taken to reduce the impact of high fuel prices on the competitiveness of the pig industry in Scotland?

Ross Finnie:

Mr Swinney will be well aware that there are two major elements of welfare standards. The first is the stall and tether ban. As he will know, European directive 91/630 sets the minimum standard. Unfortunately, that did not carry through Europe and it will not be fully applied until 2005. That is not necessarily a cost that we could bear. I think that the correct course of action is the one that we are taking, which is to tell Europe at every opportunity that we want it to accelerate uniform standards.

The second element relates to meat and bone meal. As Mr Swinney will also be aware, the Spongiform Encephalopathy Advisory Committee recently recommended that porcine meat and bone meal was not suitable, so that cost remains.

In my discussions with the industry, it has become clear that while transport costs are a factor, the most pressing cases were about welfare and the importation of animals that were alleged not to meet our welfare standards.


Sea Transport

12. Mr Murray Tosh (South of Scotland) (Con):

To ask the Scottish Executive what proposals it has to review Scotland's strategic transport links by sea. (S1O-402) The First Minister (Donald Dewar): The Scottish Executive takes full account of strategic transport links by sea in developing its transport policies and services for Scotland.

Mr Tosh:

Given that 90 per cent of UK trade is dependent on seaports, ought not the Scottish Executive to introduce proposals to address increasing congestion on the access routes to the ports in the south of England that Scottish industry uses? Should not it consider giving the support necessary for infrastructure developments to create a Scottish port with direct access to the

European mainland?

The First Minister:

Which ports are used depends to some extent on the commercial judgment of those who operate the shipping. However, I am anxious for our shipping trade with Europe to develop; I understand that many of the east coast ports are doing rather well at the moment. If the member has some specific concerns about ports in Scotland, he will no doubt write to me with his suggestions, which will be considered.


Road Safety

13. Mr Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it has any plans to introduce traffic calming or other measures to protect pedestrians on the A78 trunk road from the IBM plant to Inverkip. (S1O-403) The Deputy Minister for Highlands and Islands and Gaelic (Mr Alasdair Morrison): There are no plans to introduce traffic calming or other measures on the A78 from the IBM plant to Inverkip.

Mr McNeil:

Is the minister aware that 48 accidents were reported on that stretch of road between 1 January 1998 and 31 July 1999, including two fatalities? Is he also aware that the pedestrian bridges that are to be built along the road, at a cost of £200,000 each, have been described by the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents as an expensive second-class alternative to reducing the speed limit? Will he assure me that a representative of the appropriate department will meet the parties concerned to discuss the problem?

Mr McNeil raises legitimate concerns, which I will be happy to refer to my colleague Sarah Boyack and the relevant officials.


Late Payment

14. Mr Kenneth Gibson (Glasgow) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will name the 10 local authorities, identified by the Forum of Private Business in Scotland on 12 July, who pay 35 per cent or more of their external invoices after 30 days. (S1O-382) The Deputy Minister for Local Government (Mr Frank McAveety): The Forum of Private Business in Scotland identified the following 10 authorities that pay 35 per cent or more of their invoices after 30 days: Dundee City Council, City of Edinburgh Council, Fife Council, City of Glasgow Council, Midlothian Council, North Lanarkshire Council, Renfrewshire Council, Scottish Borders Council, Stirling Council and West Lothian Council.

Mr Gibson:

Can the deputy minister say whether the fact that Jack McConnell has scurried away rather than answer this question has anything to do with the written apology that was issued to Councillor Bruce Crawford and me earlier today? The apology was for the slur on my colleague in Mr McConnell's inaccurate and misleading reply to a very similar question that I asked two weeks ago.

Mr McAveety:

That was incandescently read.

In his letter, Jack indicated that he had misheard the figure given by Mr Gibson as 25 per cent, hence his reference to Perth and Kinross Council. I was troubled and intrigued by the figure of 35 per cent. For the sake of accuracy, I should inform members that two authorities whose performance falls just below that figure are Perth and Kinross Council and Moray Council. Interestingly enough, both were previously SNP led.

Why is the Minister for Finance not here to answer my question on his own behalf?

The question was directed at me, Presiding Officer.


Driving Test Centres

15. Bruce Crawford (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it has been consulted by or has made representations to the Driving Standards Agency over its programme of review of the viability of driving test centres classified as outstations or occasional centres, given the implications for centres in Scotland. (S1O-395) The Deputy Minister for Highlands and Islands and Gaelic (Mr Alasdair Morrison): The Driving Standards Agency consults local interests, such as driving instructors, local authorities and elected members, on proposals relating to the future of individual driving test centres in Scotland. The Scottish Executive will, of course, also be consulted.

Bruce Crawford:

Does the minister agree that investigation into the viability of outstations and occasional centres by the DSA in Scotland is particularly concerning for rural areas, given that all rural test centres are to be reviewed? Does he also agree that any future closure programme may have an economically debilitating effect on the independent driving school sector, especially given the high fuel costs in Scotland? Does he accept that any closure resulting from the DSA investigations will inevitably lead to increased motor usage and, therefore, militate against achieving the carbon dioxide emissions targets that were agreed at Kyoto?

The issues relating to the closure of centres will be subject to legitimate and

comprehensive consultation at a local level. The Executive will be consulted on any issue relating to any of those centres.


Aberdeen City Council

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will congratulate Aberdeen City Council on its recent success in the world in bloom competition. (S1O396)

The Deputy Minister for Local Government (Mr Frank McAveety):

I am tempted to respond facetiously, but I will be serious on this occasion.

The Executive and—I am sure—the Scottish Parliament will want to pass on their congratulations on this achievement to everyone involved at Aberdeen City Council and to the other Scottish towns in the British team, Perth and Alness. We think it is blooming wonderful.

Brian Adam:

Will the minister discuss with his colleagues the possibility of improving the litter situation by amending the Environment Protection Act 1990 to return to environment protection officers the power that requires persons who are littering to give them their names?

Mr McAveety:

I welcome any measure that will improve the environment. I recommend that we encourage local authorities to have proper antilitter strategies in their areas.

On visits to Aberdeen, I have been impressed by the quality of the work that has been undertaken by Aberdeen City Council. It realises the importance of visual attractiveness to a city centre.


Bus Services

18. Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive what measures it is taking to ensure that a comprehensive bus service is available to all areas of Scotland, with particular regard to rural and village communities. (S1O-397) The Deputy Minister for Highlands and Islands and Gaelic (Mr Alasdair Morrison): Buses can provide a lifeline for rural communities. We are providing £3.5 million each year to local authorities to improve public transport services in rural areas. Later this session, we will introduce a transport bill that proposes a framework for the improvement of bus services throughout Scotland.

I welcome the minister's answer. Does he agree that the provision of a comprehensive bus service, especially to outlying villages, is a vital part of a sustainable and environmentally friendly transport strategy?

Mr Morrison:

We realise that buses are a social necessity for people who live in rural areas. It is for local authorities to provide the level of bus service that is required to meet the needs of rural communities in their areas through the adoption of local transport strategies. We remain committed to ensuring that our transport policies continue to support rural communities.


Petrol Pricing

20. Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive what representations, if any, it has made to Her Majesty's Government regarding the publication date of the Office of Fair Trading report on petrol pricing in the Highlands and Islands. (S1O-385) The Deputy Minister for Highlands and Islands and Gaelic (Mr Alasdair Morrison): I understand that the Office of Fair Trading is aiming to conclude its work in November. The Executive awaits its conclusions with interest.

Fergus Ewing:

Is the minister aware that in many parts of the Highlands and Islands the price of fuel is the highest in Europe, if not the world? Is he aware that even if the Office of Fair Trading makes a finding of profiteering, the regulatory mechanisms that Westminster has dictated— which include a reference to the Competition Commission, a reference to the OFT and a reference to the Department of Trade and Industry—mean that no progress can be made on the issue until the end of 2000? I received that date from the OFT this morning. Is the minister aware that that means nothing will happen to benefit motorists in the Highlands and Islands until the end of next year, at the earliest?

Mr Morrison:

We have to deal with reality. We are awaiting the conclusions of the OFT investigation. The OFT became involved for the second time following the intervention of Calum Macdonald, who was then the transport minister. It would be foolish to pre-empt its conclusions. We welcome the OFT's interest in the Highlands and

Islands. There are legitimate concerns about profiteering, but we must await the OFT's conclusions.


Levi Strauss Co

21. Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will make a statement as to the possible outcome of recent discussions with the Levi Strauss Co. (S1O-405) The Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Henry McLeish): I met Mr Carl von Buskirk, the president of Levi Strauss, Europe on Friday 17 September in Scotland. I met Mr Bob Haas, the chief executive officer and chairman of Levi Strauss, in San Francisco on 23 September. Both meetings were conducted in a very positive

and constructive manner.

The proposal to close the Whitburn factory and the Bothwell depot and to reduce staffing levels at Bellshill was a difficult decision for the company. I received assurance that the company is committed to helping both the work force and the affected communities.

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton:

In view of the welcome news that Motorola will provide many more jobs in the vicinity, will the minister do everything in his power to ensure that the necessary retraining and training programmes are put in place, with one-to-one counselling for the work force?

Henry McLeish:

I can assure Lord James that that is the case. Indeed, this morning the First Minister made the point that we want to ensure that every possible help is given to the work force at Levi Strauss so that it can take advantage of existing opportunities. I spoke to Harry Donaldson, the General, Municipal, Boilermakers and Allied Trades Union official, this morning. The union is about to enter negotiations with the company about the redundancy package. We hope that there will be a successful outcome. Everything possible will be done to commit ourselves to a task force to ensure that job opportunities are to the fore.