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Chamber and committees

Meeting of the Parliament

Meeting date: Thursday, December 22, 2011


Contents


Scottish Executive Question Time


Rural Affairs and the Environment

Before we start themed question time, I say that Bill Kidd has sent me an apology for failing to be here for his question today. I have accepted the apology in the spirit in which it was given.


Recycling



1. To ask the Scottish Government what analysis it has made of the latest recycling figures published by the Scottish Environment Protection Agency. (S4O-00519)

The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and the Environment (Richard Lochhead)

Scottish households are steadily increasing the amount of material that they recycle. Significantly, the new set of figures shows that for the first time they are recycling more than 40 per cent of their waste. In some local authorities that figure is approaching 60 per cent—a clear reflection of the efforts being made by local authorities and, of course, households across Scotland.

I am confident that our zero waste regulations will see Scotland’s performance improve substantially in the years ahead.

Gil Paterson

Although some councils such as West Dunbartonshire Council are now recycling more than 52 per cent of household waste and are therefore recycling more than they send to landfill, others are still not over the 50 per cent mark. How can the Scottish Government, while taking into account any mitigating local circumstances, ensure that best practice is being shared among councils so that others can learn from good examples and achieve similar success?

Richard Lochhead

Gil Paterson raises a very important point about ensuring that best practice is spread throughout local authorities, given that some are doing much better than others—albeit that there are mitigating circumstances, including geography and other issues.

I spoke to the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities a couple of weeks ago about the issue and assured it that we will continue to work with all local authorities and to co-ordinate best practice.

Zero waste Scotland, the body that is responsible for recycling, is also actively speaking to all local authorities in Scotland.

Ultimately, what often makes the difference is local leadership in the council chambers. That is the most valuable ingredient for success.

The cabinet secretary just mentioned leadership. What about funding, which is one of the issues that were raised in the recent Audit Scotland analysis of local government performance on waste management and recycling?

Richard Lochhead

Sarah Boyack will be aware of the very difficult financial constraints facing the Scottish Government due to cuts from the Westminster Government in London. Despite that, I am sure that she will welcome the fact that we rolled over the zero waste budget in the recent spending review, which will be debated in Parliament this afternoon. That shows our commitment to ensuring that appropriate funding is available to local authorities.

The most important point to make is that local authorities cannot afford to ignore recycling, because of the costs of not dealing with it—the cost of landfill tax and so on, as well as the cost to Scotland’s environment.

Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con)

The percentage of waste that is being recycled in the island local authorities in the Highlands and Islands is noticeably below the national average. What support can the Scottish Government give those authorities, where economies of scale are much more difficult to achieve due to the low and dispersed populations there?

Richard Lochhead

As I said in a previous answer, the Scottish Government recognises that there are different circumstances in different parts of Scotland, particularly in terms of the island communities. It so happens that when I spoke to COSLA a couple of weeks ago, the islands representatives called in to the meeting via conference call, which was a good idea, and I gave them a commitment to look at some of the specific challenges facing our island communities. We will do more work on that with our island authorities.


United Nations Climate Change Conference



2. To ask the Scottish Government what impact the outcomes of the recent United Nations climate change conference will have on Scotland. (S4O-00520)

The Minister for Environment and Climate Change (Stewart Stevenson)

The outcome at Durban represents a significant success for the European Union in that, for the first time, the major emitter nations have been brought together behind a timetable for a global climate treaty to be agreed by 2015 and in force by 2020. There is an opportunity now to build on that success, which has boosted certainty about the global low-carbon future, in which Scotland, as the green energy capital of Europe, can have a competitive advantage. However, there will be many challenges for the global community in the years ahead in delivering on the commitments that were made at Durban.

With Scotland being a world leader in the climate change agenda, what lessons and experience was the minister able to share with conference delegates?

Stewart Stevenson

One of the key elements of my message in my meetings with other leaders was that despite being a developed modern nation we can set ambitious climate change targets. Our target of a 42 per cent reduction in emissions by 2020 is—with that which is now set in the United Kingdom—the highest legally enforced target in the world. Our agenda of creating new industry from the opportunity that is presented by renewable energy has attracted widespread interest, and we will continue to engage with as many people internationally as we reasonably can.

How, specifically, will the outcomes of the Durban conference impact on the Scottish Government’s target of reducing CO2 emissions by 42 per cent?

Stewart Stevenson

Under the land use, land-use change and forestry agenda, some progress was made in taking forward the inclusion of wetlands—or, in our case, peatlands—in the calculation for sucking in carbon dioxide and reduction in methane emissions. Early in the new year, we will host in Edinburgh a meeting of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s panel on wetlands. We have the specific prospect of improvement in that situation and reward for the work that we are already undertaking to restore peatlands.


Radioactive Contamination (Dalgety Bay)



3. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the radioactive contamination detected at Dalgety Bay. (S4O-00521)

The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and the Environment (Richard Lochhead)

The Scottish Environment Protection Agency expects to receive from the Ministry of Defence a draft remediation plan by January 2012 and a final version by the end of February 2012. If the MOD fails to provide the plan, SEPA has stated its intention to designate the land, under legislation, as radioactive contaminated land, by the end of March 2012. I believe that the MOD still has an opportunity to take the lead and bring this issue to a close without the need to designate the land, but to do that it must start to fulfil its obligations to the people of Dalgety Bay and deliver credible plans to remediate the contamination.

Bill Walker

Given the concern expressed by many of my constituents in adjacent Dunfermline and throughout west Fife, is the cabinet secretary confident that the MOD will properly address the matter, especially in light of the fact that, at a recent meeting in Dalgety Bay that was attended by local MP Mr Gordon Brown, it was claimed that under the previous Labour United Kingdom Government the MOD apparently accepted responsibility for the contamination but that that position had been reversed under the current UK coalition Government?

Richard Lochhead

Bill Walker highlights a number of good points and the best outcome for the people of Dalgety Bay and the other adjacent communities will be for the MOD to step up to the plate on this very important issue. Indeed, it is important that it does so. The member asks me whether I am confident that that will happen. Obviously, I would much rather give the MOD the benefit of the doubt, but my confidence—and, more important, the confidence of the local community—is being sapped. I hope that the MOD recognises the seriousness with which the local community treats the issue. The best outcome will be to avoid the land being designated as contaminated by radioactivity—we do not want to go there unless we really have to—but that decision ultimately lies not with me but with SEPA. However, I hope that the MOD takes the necessary steps.


Cities (Environmental Issues)



4. To ask the Scottish Government how it raises awareness of environmental issues in cities. (S4O-00522)

The Minister for Environment and Climate Change (Stewart Stevenson)

On 28 November 2011, the Scottish Government and a range of partner organisations launched Scotland’s environment web, which brings together information on Scotland’s environment in one place and in an easily accessible format. The site provides straightforward descriptions of the state of the environment and key messages that highlight our progress in protecting it in a way that is relevant to all areas of Scotland.

Humza Yousaf

On the back of Gil Paterson’s question, I wonder about Scotland’s largest local authority, Glasgow City Council, which is among the poorest performers when it comes to recycling household waste. The Scottish Environment Protection Agency released figures at the tail end of last month that show that only 26.8 per cent of the more than 66,000 tonnes of household waste that were produced in the second quarter of this year was recycled. How can the Scottish Government work with Glasgow City Council to ensure that recycling is given higher priority in our biggest city, and that much more of our household waste is recycled?

Stewart Stevenson

Zero waste Scotland is working closely with Glasgow City Council to give it every possible assistance. I am sure that the council will value that and that zero waste Scotland’s assistance will help it to deliver on the ambitious targets that have been set for waste reduction across Scotland.

Drew Smith (Glasgow) (Lab)

Raising awareness is an important part of promoting environmental sustainability in our cities and elsewhere, but funding is also an issue in relation to recycling rates. Does it remain the case that local authorities are funded on the volume of recycling that is currently taking place rather than according to the support that is required, in particular for the tenemental housing in Glasgow, which creates a logistical problem?

Stewart Stevenson

It is clearly important that councils throughout Scotland and everyone in industry and business step up their efforts on recycling. There is a financial benefit to everyone involved when they reduce the amount of waste that goes to landfill. I am sure that Glasgow City Council, to which the member referred, and other councils, have the necessary incentives to ensure that they raise their game.


Rural Priorities (Funding)



5. To ask the Scottish Executive how much it has committed to its rural priorities and how much it will commit for 2012 and 2013. (S4O-00523)

The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and the Environment (Richard Lochhead)

The total funding awarded under the rural priorities scheme since 2008 is £480 million.

More funding will be committed throughout 2012 for a range of projects. The 2011 spending review allocated £97.9 million in 2012-13 and £89.7 million in 2013-14 towards our rural priorities budget.

Claudia Beamish

Can the cabinet secretary give an update on projects such as diffuse pollution catchments, including those in my region at Eyemouth? Will the reduced commitments—as I understand it—under the rural priorities budget mean a scaling down of that work, which supports farmers and is important to maintaining good water quality?

Richard Lochhead

I will be happy to send Claudia Beamish more details about the specific issues in her region. I think that she refers to concerns about agri-environment funding, which she and other members have written to me about in recent weeks. I am confident that the demand for agri-environment funding will be met as we move forward. That is evidenced by the high approval rate in the September funding round, in which 82 per cent of applicants were successful. That is above the acceptance rate in some previous years, which I hope shows that demand is being met. Of course, I have already announced a full agri-environment round, which will take place in 2012.


Greylag Geese (Orkney)



6. To ask the Scottish Executive what assessment it has made of the impact of greylag geese in Orkney and the effectiveness of the measures to limit the damage to agricultural land that the birds cause. (S4O-00524)

The Minister for Environment and Climate Change (Stewart Stevenson)

The impact of greylag geese in Orkney was examined in the report on the “Orkney Greylag Goose Feasibility Project”, which was commissioned by Scottish Natural Heritage, and in the Scottish Government’s “2010 Review of Goose Management Policy in Scotland”, which was published in February 2011. The Orkney study concluded that, due to a number of factors, including the dispersed nature of wintering flocks, it would be premature to consider a standardised scheme across Orkney.

Following the 2010 review, Scottish Government and SNH officials are working with local farmers on goose-management issues to improve scaring techniques and to streamline the licensing procedure for the control of geese in the close season.

Liam McArthur

I thank the minister for his reply and for his letter of 11 December, which gave some helpful pointers. I would be grateful for clarification—if not now, then subsequently—on a couple of issues that he has not mentioned. He made no mention of extending the open season, which suggestion has been raised in the past. In a letter in July there was reference to consideration of sustainable harvesting of species. It would be helpful to know whether there will be sale of goose meat. The minister said in the letter of 11 December that the national goose management review group is considering a range of options for managing goose populations. More detail on that would be helpful for my constituents.

Stewart Stevenson

I am glad that Liam McArthur has had that letter, which is an extensive one.

On extending the open season, we would prefer in the first instance to rely on licenses to allow farmers to scare geese off by shooting some of them during the close season. That approach is available now and it is relatively straightforward. I acknowledge that there are particular and special problems in Orkney that do not exist on the same scale elsewhere because of the dispersed nature of the goose population and the fact that some 10,000 geese are now resident there all the year round. However, we certainly want to continue to work with local farmers and others to ensure that we have adequate numbers of licenses and trained people to continue shooting during what is currently the close season.

Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con)

Scaring techniques in an offshore archipelago like Orkney tend to result only in moving geese from one island to another. The island of Islay has a very good scheme to manage geese. Would the minister commit to further studies on the impact of the greylag geese in Orkney with a view to introducing an appropriate management scheme in the future?

Stewart Stevenson

Jamie McGrigor makes a perfectly reasonable point about the nature of the Orkney islands. In that respect, the techniques that are applied in Islay will not necessarily transfer readily to Orkney. The key will be the simplification measures that we are undertaking to ensure that it is easier to shoot geese, as appropriate. The programme of shooting could be co-ordinated so that movement of geese such as the member referred to is not simply a consequence with no real benefit.


Climate Change Delivery Plan



7. To ask the Scottish Government whether it plans to update or publish a progress report on its climate change delivery plan. (S4O-00525)

The Minister for Environment and Climate Change (Stewart Stevenson)

The “Climate Change Delivery Plan: Meeting Scotland’s Statutory Climate Change Targets” was published in June 2009 and it described four transformational outcomes that are necessary in order to achieve Scotland’s long-term emissions reduction targets. The delivery plan was followed in March 2011 by “Low Carbon Scotland: Meeting the Emissions Reduction Targets 2010-2022”, which is the Scottish Government’s first statutory report on proposals and policies setting out specific measures for reducing greenhouse gases. The measures draw on the transformational outcomes described in the delivery plan. A second RPP will be published next year, describing how emissions targets to 2027 can be met.

Marco Biagi

I very much welcome that answer from the minister. A number of respected environmental groups have expressed concerns that the current RPP, although it is a fine document, does not necessarily set out which groups are responsible for which actions and how each of them will be funded. Can the minister give some insight into whether that will be addressed in the next RPP or in other statutory reports that are required by the Climate Change (Scotland) Act 2009?

Stewart Stevenson

Discussions on the next RPP are at an early stage. It is certainly true that the Government is not the sole source, or even the major source, of funding for many of the policies and proposals in RPP 1. I expect that in the next report on policies and proposals, that will be the case as well. It is important to realise that there is a break between policies that are committed to by the Government and funded appropriately, and proposals that will, of course, be dealt with at a later stage, which in the case of the next RPP will perhaps be after 2020. The absolute certainty that the member seeks might not be present in RPP 2, but we have listened and we will respond.


Waste Targets



8. To ask the Scottish Executive whether it expects all local authorities to recycle at least 70 per cent of their waste by 2025, with a maximum of 5 per cent being sent to landfill. (S4O-00526)

The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and the Environment (Richard Lochhead)

I expect that all local authorities will have met the 70 per cent recycling target by 2025, and that many will have exceeded it. Scotland has already met the 2013 European Union landfill diversion target, with 12 local authorities now recycling over 50 per cent of the household waste they collect, and two thirds recycling over 40 per cent.

James Kelly

I thank the cabinet secretary for that answer. Building on some of the discussion on previous questions, what specific action does the Government take to monitor how councils are progressing against the targets? Where progress is slow, will the Government consider introducing specific local action plans in order to be proactive with councils in moving them towards achieving the targets?

Richard Lochhead

The Scottish Environment Protection Agency has responsibility for monitoring the progress of local authorities, hence its publication of the targets for levels of recycling for households and so on, and progress towards those targets.

As for specific issues that each local authority has to deal with, there is bilateral discussion through zero waste Scotland and there are negotiations between that body and each local authority to help and advise them. Of course, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities also plays a key role. The Scottish Government has many discussions—I referred to discussions that I had two weeks ago with COSLA on the progress that our local authorities are making.

I am always open to suggestions, if James Kelly has ideas about local action plans that COSLA, the Scottish Government and zero waste Scotland could sign up to that are not being done at the moment.

Alex Fergusson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)

Dumfries and Galloway Council made great strides in its recycling record when it built an Ecodeco plant—an energy from waste plant—in Dumfries some years ago. Since then, SEPA’s reinterpretation of European Union recycling statistics has called into question the impact of the council’s considerable investment. What action is the cabinet secretary taking to work with the council to address the situation?

Richard Lochhead

I very much welcome the fact that Dumfries and Galloway Council is committed to taking a lot of action in the coming years to help us to meet our national targets. I was told at a meeting with the leadership of the council two or three weeks ago that the council is very committed to that.

On interpretation of the statistics on household recycling rates, I am sure that members agree that, in order to ensure that they are accurate, we have to be very transparent about what the public sees about the rates in terms of what is published and in the public domain. We have also to abide by European legislation, which has helped to define effectively the recycling statistics, and to ensure that we are consistent not just within Scotland, but with what is happening elsewhere, so that there can be real and transparent interpretation of the actual situation for household recycling. I assure Alex Fergusson that we are working very closely with his local council, and in his constituency, to make progress.


Sheep (Electronic Identification)



10. To ask the Scottish Government how it advises livestock producers about their on-farm obligations regarding the electronic identification of sheep. (S4O-00528)

The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and the Environment (Richard Lochhead)

Electronic identification of sheep was introduced to enhance traceability and enable efficient and effective disease control. Since its introduction in January 2010, we have worked very closely with all stakeholder groups to keep Scottish sheep farmers and crofters informed of their regulatory requirements.

Angus MacDonald

The cabinet secretary will be aware of the call from NFU Scotland for reform of the regulations regarding sheep EID. Has he given any thought to the call for an approach that would accept a single flock tag from nine months, and which would require an upgrade only to double-tag EID when an animal leaves a farm? Alternatively, an opportunity exists to introduce to the proposed cattle EID regulations provisions that could be used to modify current sheep EID standards.

Richard Lochhead

This is an issue which I accept continues to cause a lot of anxiety for sheep farmers. The concession that the member suggests, which would be good for Scotland is, of course, something that we have attempted unsuccessfully to win over the past few years, although we have won other concessions that have made things easier. We met the industry on 7 December to agree a common agenda on some of the outstanding issues with the sheep EID regulations, so that we can go back to Europe and try to win more concessions.


Justice and Law Officers


Automatic Early Release



1. To ask the Scottish Executive what its policy is on ending automatic early release of prisoners. (S4O-00529)

As set out in our manifesto, we remain committed to ending automatic early release once the criteria that were set by the McLeish commission are met.

John Lamont

On several occasions, we have seen how automatic early release allows some pretty dreadful crimes to be committed and how it fails the victims of crime. The cabinet secretary has been saying for some time that the Government wishes to scrap automatic early release—in fact, that was in the 2007 and 2011 SNP election manifestos. Notwithstanding what the cabinet secretary has said, can he give a commitment that it will be abolished before the end of the current session of Parliament?

Kenny MacAskill

As I said, that is part of our manifesto, but we are required to meet the criteria that the McLeish commission set out.

We should never forget that automatic early release was introduced by the Conservatives. They frequently raise the issue, but they always forget that it was they who brought it in.

McLeish made it quite clear that three aspects would have to be addressed: the problems that the courts would face; the problems that the social work departments would face; and, especially, the problems that the prisons would face—at present, there are difficulties with prisoner numbers. The Government’s commitment is to implement not just our desire, but the recommendations of the McLeish commission. We are required to meet the criteria that it set out, and it would be useful if, at some stage, the Conservatives in Scotland showed more sympathy for the direction of travel that we and Ken Clarke, the Lord Chancellor south of the border, have taken. It appears that, whether on Europe or on justice policy, Ken Clarke is the bête noire of the Scottish Conservatives.

What are the criteria for the abolition of automatic early release and when might the conditions for it be right?

Kenny MacAskill

The McLeish commission made it clear that there could be difficulties not simply for the Scottish Prison Service, in terms of prisoner numbers, but for the courts, in terms of the requirements for the judiciary and the shrieval bench, and for social work departments. We must ensure that the requirements are met across the board. We remain committed to that, and our commitment was echoed by the McLeish commission, which included not just a former First Minister but people of great talent and expertise from across the social and economic framework. We must ensure that the criteria that they laid out are met.

Lewis Macdonald (North East Scotland) (Lab)

I am interested in the cabinet secretary’s explanation of his conditional commitment to the abolition of automatic early release. Has he estimated the costs of meeting the criteria and has provision been made in his department’s budget and other departmental budgets to meet those costs during the current spending review period?

Kenny MacAskill

The costs will vary depending on the number of people who are in prison. The Government requires to do what it is doing, which is to ensure that the prison estate is fit for purpose, whether in dealing with the consequences—in due course—of ending automatic unconditional early release or simply in meeting the criteria. The Government will bring HM Prison Low Moss on stream next year, and construction is beginning of HMP Grampian to alleviate the pressure at Craiginches, which the member will know well. We are taking the appropriate steps to ensure that the prison estate is fit for purpose. Those two projects are just part of a longer term strategy to deal with the needs and requirements of the Prison Service across the board.

Question 2, in the name of David Stewart, has been withdrawn. The member submitted an apology.


Criminal Cases (Punishment and Review) (Scotland) Bill (United Kingdom Government Response)



3. To ask the Scottish Executive whether the UK Government has replied to the Cabinet Secretary for Justice’s letter of 1 December 2011 regarding the Criminal Cases (Punishment and Review) (Scotland) Bill. (S4O-00531)

The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)

The UK Government replied to my letter on data protection on 13 December. It has asked for further information on the type of personal data that is included in the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission’s statement of reasons in the al-Megrahi case. I have responded and provided contact details to enable direct discussion to take place between the UK Government and the commission on the issues surrounding data protection.

John Scott

The Scottish Government was quick to publish the letter that the cabinet secretary sent to Kenneth Clarke, but it has failed for more than a week to publish the answer that it received. Given the foregoing answer, why was the cabinet secretary not clearer in his letter about precisely what he wants Her Majesty’s Government to do? Does he seriously expect it to recast the data protection legislation entirely, or does he believe that there are provisions under existing legislation that would permit the release of the statement of reasons?

Kenny MacAskill

There are two aspects to the answer. First, I am rather surprised by the tenor of Mr Scott’s question. As he correctly said, we have published our letter. It has always been the Government’s view that we would be as up front and transparent as we could be on al-Megrahi. We have not published the response from Her Majesty’s Government because it is for that Government to give its consent so that we can publish it. As soon as I receive that consent, I will be more than happy to publish the response.

I should say that I am not casting any aspersions about the delay; it is perhaps rather soon to expect Ken Clarke to have dealt with the issue. However, Mr Scott should have realised that it is not for me to publish a letter from HM Government without its consent. That is where matters stand.

Secondly, the data protection issues are fundamentally a matter for the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission. We have made it clear that we are trying to broker discussions, and I am grateful to Ken Clarke for his willingness to engage so that officials from his department can meet the commission.

Mr Scott should realise that only the commission is privy to the information. It is not known by me or any other member of the Scottish Government. Accordingly, the discussions require to take place between Her Majesty’s Government and the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission.

Given the obstacles to the publication of the statement of reasons, such as data protection and the official secrets acts, why has the Scottish Government introduced a bill on the issue?

Kenny MacAskill

We are meeting our commitment to do all that we can to enable the release of information. However, we cannot legislate on reserved matters, which is why we have asked the UK Government to disapply data protection legislation so that the commission is further freed from other statutory obstacles in deciding whether to disclose information.

As a Government, we have always sought to act transparently. It is for other Governments to take their decisions and answer for why they refuse to make some information available or why they take action in court to restrict the availability of information.

Question 4, in the name of Hanzala Malik, has not been lodged. Question 5, in the name of Rhoda Grant, has been withdrawn, and the member has submitted an apology to me.


Police Entrance Exam



6. To ask the Scottish Government how many applicants have failed the police force entrance exam in the past five years. (S4O-00534)

The recruitment of police officers is an operational matter for chief constables.

I thank the cabinet secretary for his answer. What steps can be taken to equip applicants to achieve their goal of joining the Scottish police force?

Kenny MacAskill

I am grateful to the member for raising the issue. I can confirm that the Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland is reviewing the standard entrance test and considering a number of ways of ensuring that it correctly assesses potential police officers’ ability to cope with the demands of probationary training. ACPOS is considering the accreditation of prior learning, including academic qualifications from outside Scotland, but it is also taking an holistic approach, looking at the use of assessment centres and situational judgment tests to allow applicants who do not have academic qualifications to join the service.


Violent Crime (Additional Police Officers)



7. To ask the Scottish Executive whether the additional 1,000 police officers it has recruited have been assigned to front-line duties, in light of the 2 per cent increase in violent crime in the last year. (S4O-00535)

The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)

The Scottish Government is continuing to deliver on its target to maintain 1,000 extra police in communities across Scotland, and we are seeing the results.

Since 2006-07, there has been a 23 per cent reduction in total recorded crime, including a 19 per cent reduction in violent crime. Reoffending rates are at an 11-year low and there has been a significant rise in the clear-up rate for violent crime, from 67 to 72 per cent. At the same time, there has been a decrease in the risk of being a victim of crime in Scotland, with the result that the risk is now significantly lower in Scotland than it is in England and Wales.

None of that is a coincidence. Our investment in police officers is making Scotland’s communities safer.

Graeme Pearson

Reports indicate that a single police force will attract VAT charges in excess of £22 million per year. Given that the Scottish Police Services Authority recently spent more than £100,000 on expert advice to seek an alternative to VAT, without success, will the minister confirm what the VAT position is, and confirm that he has plans to hand to avoid a knock-on effect of job cuts and an adverse impact on services across Scotland?

Kenny MacAskill

As the member well knows, there has been a long discussion on the matter between the Scottish Government and the Treasury, and the matter is on-going. As he knows from his experience in the Scottish Crime and Drug Enforcement Agency, the matter was dealt with and VAT was imposed on the SPSA. We felt that that was wrong, and we continue to lobby for a change.

Our view is that significant savings can be made from having a single service, irrespective of the VAT position, but it seems ridiculous that VAT is foisted on a fundamental and vital public service in Scotland. I assure the member that, in exactly the same way as I fought his corner when he was at the SCDEA, I will continue to fight the corner of the Scottish police service. There is something fundamentally wrong, and it is for HM Treasury to review it.


Prison Visiting Committees



8. To ask the Scottish Executive what its plans are for prison visiting committees. (S4O-00536)

The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)

I wrote to all visiting committee members recently to thank them for their hard work and dedication. As I wrote in my letter of 5 December to the convener of the Justice Committee, we stand to deliver better outcomes by replacing the current structure of 16 prison visiting committees with a new dedicated independent advocacy service for prisoners.

Margaret McDougall

Many people in my region have asked me to raise the issue and share their concerns about the development. Prison visiting committees should be independent local bodies, and they were widely praised in the consultation process, so why disband them? Who would be in charge of appointing the new independent prisoner advocacy service and monitoring its progress? Who would it be accountable to, and how would it be funded?

Kenny MacAskill

The requirement to protect prisoners and review on-going matters in the prison estate is why we have Her Majesty’s chief inspector of prisons. Brigadier Monro does an outstanding job, as his predecessors did, and I pay tribute to him.

In a small country, we need to ask how many organisations we need to deal with a single matter. We do not currently provide an advocacy service to support the needs and welfare of prisoners, but I and the Scottish Prison Service believe that it is necessary to have one in order to tackle reoffending. We are discussing the matter with procurement, and it will go out to tender. Whether it goes to Sacro, Apex Scotland or some other organisation can be reviewed and discussed, but we will certainly seek to work with partners who already work in the sphere.

I put on the record that the proposal is not about making a cost saving. The cost of running the visiting committees is less than the cost of running an advocacy service. However, we have a responsibility to protect prisoners—Her Majesty’s inspectorate of prisons, the European convention on human rights and a host of other matters are relevant in that regard—and we must do what is necessary to break the cycle of reoffending for people who have learning difficulties, those who are inarticulate and so on. We believe that an advocacy service will be fundamentally better placed to do that, which is why we are putting one in place. It is not about the money; it is about doing the right thing.

Can the cabinet secretary confirm that the new independent advocacy service will make progress in reducing duplication?

Kenny MacAskill

I believe that it will. As I said, I envisage that the dedicated independent advocacy service will support hard-to-reach prisoners and prisoner groups, mentor and support prisoners appropriately and professionally, and improve prisoner links with the community. It will replace a service that was established before many of our current checks and balances were in place and it will avoid duplicating the work of HMIP. It will also enable third-sector organisations to work together to provide services, rather than compete against each other.

As I said, this is not about financial savings; it is about doing what will best provide for the needs and wants of hard-to-reach prisoners, who all too often become caught in a cycle of reoffending. If it works, it will be a good thing.

Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)

Does the cabinet secretary recognise that the visiting committees undertake unannounced prison visits, that they often provide objective evidence to Scottish Parliament committees that is based on the wealth of knowledge that their members have gathered on their visits to prisons, and that that advice is sometimes at variance with the initial line from the SPS? In view of that, does he recognise that the two roles that he is talking about—the independent advocacy role and the prison visiting role—do not represent a duplication of work but are independent? In view of that, will he consider retaining both?

Kenny MacAskill

As I said to Nanette Milne last week, I will happily reflect on that. However, fundamentally, these matters are dealt with by Her Majesty’s chief inspector of prisons, who also carries out unannounced visits. Equally, as the Government knows to its cost, we pay for challenges by lawyers who seek to defend the rights of prisoners and raise requirements around the ECHR. We think that one body should cover that.


Murder (Influence of Alcohol)



9. To ask the Scottish Government what percentage of those accused of murder in Tayside in 2010-11 was under the influence of alcohol at the time of the offence. (S4O-00537)

The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)

There were no recorded homicides in Tayside in 2010-11, but figures show that, across Scotland, nearly 80 per cent of those who were accused of homicide were reported to have been drunk and/or on drugs when the homicide was committed. Most homicides were committed indoors by someone known to the victim. Those figures confirm what we know—that bargain-basement booze can have a fatal price. We will not shirk from taking tough action on alcohol abuse, and we cannot allow such mindless violence, which has devastating consequences for families and communities throughout Scotland, to continue.

Joe FitzPatrick may ask a brief supplementary question. The answer should also be brief, please.

Can the cabinet secretary give us an indication of the timescale for introducing a bill to set a minimum price for alcohol?

Kenny MacAskill

That is fundamentally a matter for my colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Health, Wellbeing and Cities Strategy, but she has made it clear that we are intent on doing that, and matters are progressing.

From a justice perspective, I simply reiterate that it is clear that the curse of home drinking has resulted in those murders. Alcohol abuse is taking place, and people are likely to be murdered in their premises or somebody else’s private dwelling-house by people whom they know, who are under the influence of alcohol. Things have to change, and having a minimum price is a significant part of addressing that.