Plenary, 14 Sep 2006

Meeting date: Thursday, September 14, 2006

Official Report 753KB pdf

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Question Time

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SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE

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Education and Young People, Tourism, Culture and Sport

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Class Sizes

To ask the Scottish Executive how it will report to the Parliament this year on any progress made in cutting class sizes. (S2O-10522)

We have already published details of primary class sizes this year and the next publication will be in February 2007.

Details of teacher numbers are also collected annually. They were published earlier this year and will again be published in the first quarter of next year.

We accept that the Government is training new teachers, but does the minister know how many of those teachers are actually being recruited into classrooms? Is not it the case that because of delays in the recruitment of teachers, the Government is relying on falling school rolls to meet its targets?

I ask the minister again what progress has been made in cutting class sizes towards the 2007 target. Will he publish a report for Parliament on that subject?

As I said, we published a report in February this year on primary class sizes. We did—there is no point in Shona Robison shaking her head. The report is in the public domain. Another report will, following the annual pattern, be published at that time next year. We will also publish the details of the census that will be taken this month. We will publish the figures next year, as we did last year.

The Scottish National Party is mathematically challenged—we know that from its economic policies—but if members look at the figures that are in the public domain, they will find that more than 890 extra teachers are teaching in Scottish schools, compared with the figure for the most recent year for which figures are available.

Shona Robison rightly pointed out that pupil numbers are falling. In Scotland between 2004 and 2005 the numbers fell so that 10,000 fewer pupils were in the system. At the same time, we have nearly 1,000 extra teachers, which gives us this historic opportunity to cut class sizes significantly and improve pupil to teacher ratios. That is exactly what is happening and the figures are there to prove it.

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School League Tables

To ask the Scottish Executive what action is being taken to prevent local authorities from publishing school league tables. (S2O-10475)

The Scottish Executive neither publishes nor endorses the publication of school league tables.

Is the minister aware that even Labour-run authorities such as the City of Edinburgh Council are handing over league tables of primary and secondary schools to the press for publication? Does the minister agree that the publication of league tables stigmatises schools that serve the poorest urban areas, leads to schools teaching to the test and leads to better-off parents enrolling their children in other schools, thus exacerbating the concentration of the most deprived children in certain schools? That seems to go against the minister's declared intentions. If that is the case, what will the minister do to clarify the guidance?

We have to be careful not to be confused, because sometimes newspapers use freedom of information requests to access raw data from schools. Newspapers are entitled to do that under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002, so we have to make a distinction. We also have to make a distinction between reports that go to councillors about attainment in their local authority areas, and local authority league tables. I am not aware of any local authority that is producing a league table or that has given such a table to a newspaper, although newspapers can use freedom of information requests to derive base data.

Rosemary Byrne has spoken about the flaws in using simplistic league tables—that is what I have called them many times—to judge the quality of our schools. League tables of exam results are important for knowing about exam results but not for knowing about the ranking of individual schools. Exam results give a one-dimensional view of how a school operates. To know how a school operates, we need to look at the additional support staff, at its behaviour policies, at its ethos and at its rules and how well they are applied. We need to consider sport, music, drama and other things that go on in the school, and we need to consider how the school engages with its community and with environmental questions, the vocational options on offer and curriculum flexibility. The list could go on.

There are lots of things to be considered when we judge the quality of a school. We cannot judge by looking at a league table, which is why we encourage schools to publish handbooks about what they do, and it is why our www.scottishschoolsonline.gov.uk website gives people access to schools data and to links to the schools themselves. I encourage people to take a wide view of schools and not to be fixated on exam results alone—important though they are.

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Teachers (Funding)

To ask the Scottish Executive how it will ensure that money allocated to employ new teachers to reduce class sizes will be used this year for this purpose. (S2O-10519)

Local authorities have been given targets for the number of teachers they need to employ to reach our targets and conditions have also been applied to specific use of the additional funding that I have recently given local authorities.

Does the minister accept that funding mechanisms for education are causing councils considerable difficulty in reducing class sizes in areas where populations are growing? Will the minister give a commitment to consider adjusting the mechanism so that councils with growing populations get the resources that they need to reduce class sizes? Pupils and parents expect to hear reduction commitments today and not at some distant time in the future. Is the minister aware that a child who started school aged five in 1997, when Labour came to power, will be 15 next year and will have gone right through school without the benefit of smaller classes?

I am glad that the Scottish National Party has got some basic arithmetic right.

As always.

Bruce Crawford is right: if someone was five in 1997, they would be 15 next year.

As always.

Calm down, John.

It is entirely wrong to say that those pupils will not have experienced reductions in class sizes; many of them will. We have already cut class sizes significantly in the early years of primary school and there have been reductions in secondary 1 and secondary 2 in maths and English class sizes. I have been in schools recently that are already exactly meeting our targets. I told Shona Robison in an earlier answer that we have increased the number of teachers in Scottish schools this year by more than 890—they will be teaching in our schools now. All of that is improving Scottish education.

On the point about growing populations, when Bruce Crawford was leader of a council he would have argued about that issue. He will know that clear and well-established formulae are in place that take account of changes in the pupil population, which is the principal determinant of how much money local authorities get to implement our policies, and he will know that those formulae are adjusted over time to ensure that councils with growing populations get the extra cash that they need and that those with reducing populations get less cash as a consequence.

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Bilingual Learners (Schools)

To ask the Scottish Executive how it is supporting schools in the teaching and integration of children whose first language is not English. (S2O-10527)

The Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Act 2004 requires education authorities to identify, meet and keep under review the additional support needs of all pupils for whom English is an additional language. The Executive provides local authorities with substantial resources to ensure that bilingual learners are given full access to the mainstream curriculum and are given the opportunity to learn alongside those for whom English is their first language.

We welcome immigration and immigrant pupils in our classrooms, but such pupils impose different conditions for teachers. The influx of those children has happened fast and to a large extent. Is the minister satisfied that sufficient resources are being provided to support teachers who are in post now, and who are faced with teaching those children alongside children whose first language is English? Is there any plan to provide, in the curriculum for teacher training, training for teachers in how to deal with classes in which there are different first languages?

The issue will reflect people's experience throughout Scotland. I echo Nora Radcliffe's comments about the welcome that those people, who come mostly from east and central Europe, should receive in Scotland, because they play a significant part in the economy. Their education is primarily a matter for local authorities throughout Scotland, which are given £4 billion of resource through grant-aided expenditure in particular, including significant amounts for additional support needs provision in their areas. Nora Radcliffe would recognise that.

The Executive commissioned the Scottish English as an additional language co-ordinating council and the centre for education for racial equality in Scotland to produce a document on good practice in teaching pupils for whom English is an additional language. It was published in February. We have also published an education guide for asylum seekers that may be some help in that regard.

It is fair to say that a discrepancy arises in Scotland in that an awful lot of the influx has been to the four bigger cities. It is important that councils take advantage of the expertise that exists among colleagues in other council areas to get guidance on the matter. Councils are considering the issue closely and the situation is moving fast. We stand ready to talk to councils about any difficulties that they may have and to see whether we can be of any help in relation to guidance and the expertise that exists in the system.

The minister will recall the representations that I have made about the situation in the Highland Council area where, this autumn, there were at least 50 new presentations of children who have needs in respect of English being their second language—the figure is probably nearer 90 children. Highland Council is finding it difficult to cope with such huge numbers. Will the minister consider how local authorities are coping? The additional support for learning budget was allocated before all those new presentations occurred. Will he consider how training in delivering support for English as a second language might be given to existing learning support teachers, perhaps through a distance learning programme? We need people in classrooms to help teachers cope with the new arrivals.

Maureen Macmillan has made some good points. Local authorities are not restricted to particular lines of the GAE for such support—they have discretion, which is the whole point of the way in which we fund local authorities. I am more than happy to have a separate discussion with the member about the detail of the important points that she makes.

However, we have not really had representations from councils about difficulties that they face in that regard. Given the input that Peter Peacock and I, and other members, have had on the matter, I have asked officials to ensure that they are in close touch with local authorities about the situation in their areas and to ensure that we can respond suitably to the problems that the authorities undoubtedly face on the issue. It will take a little time for that work to come to bear on the problem. Local authorities have the lead in the matter, but we are anxious to do as much as we can to back them in that endeavour.

The minister and Maureen Macmillan referred to the Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Act 2004. Will the minister confirm that all schools can apply through the additional support for learning scheme for support for children whose first language is not English?

It is not really a question of applying—the funding has been put out there. An allocation is made under the various headings of the additional support for learning implementation arrangements. The money is spread among local authorities proportionately, using the usual arrangements. Authorities have access to the funding for use in the most appropriate fashion.

More generally on the Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Act 2004, as the member is probably aware, we have implementation arrangements and officers to assist local authorities in dealing with the admittedly significant challenges of ensuring that provision throughout Scotland is up to standard. We have also made arrangements for Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Education to report on progress on the implementation of the 2004 act. Its report will be published in due course. We have also asked HMIE to keep a close eye on several particular issues that arise from the 2004 act.

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Mountain Biking (Support)

To ask the Scottish Executive how it supports mountain biking. (S2O-10533)

The Executive supports mountain biking through the annual grant aid that is awarded by sportscotland to the sport's governing body. In addition, the Forestry Commission Scotland provides support for the development of mountain biking facilities throughout its estate.

The minister will be aware of the significance of mountain biking to the Tweed valley in my constituency—she has visited Peebles. Does she appreciate that there is growing concern among members of the community council and local businesses that the Forestry Commission is not making progress on its commitments at Glentress or in its work at Innerleithen with the private and commercial sector? Will she relay those concerns at the highest level in the Forestry Commission and to her ministerial colleagues in the Executive? If the Forestry Commission does not make more progress now, the Borders will not gain from the sport's huge potential.

I understand Mr Purvis's concern, but I point out that Glentress has to an extent been a victim of its own success. The number of visitors enjoying the trail has grown so significantly that it has outgrown the present site and facilities. I understand that the Forestry Commission has acquired 12 additional acres of land adjacent to the existing entrance and that it intends to relocate the present facilities and to redevelop the new site into a visitor services centre that will serve all of the Tweed valley forest park. I understand that a planning application will be submitted, so it is probably not appropriate for me to comment further.

Will the minister join me in praising all those who were involved in the international mountain biking competition that was held this year at Aonach Mor. It was such a success that Lochaber was full up—a case of Lochaber no more room at the inn. Is she aware that the world championships will be held there next year, which will mean thousands of extra people to be looked after? Unlike Mr Purvis, I congratulate Forest Enterprise on its work in expanding the facilities for beginners, intermediates and on what I call the kamikaze runs at Wolftrax near Laggan. Does the minister agree that it is excellent news that is very much to be encouraged, and that we want as many people as possible to enjoy the splendid benefits and hospitality that my constituency has to offer?

I suspect that this is one of those one-off occasions when I can unreservedly agree with Mr Ewing—although I might perhaps have chosen to phrase my support a little differently.

It is good to have Mr Ewing's support for events that have been attracted to Scotland in no small measure by EventScotland, the Government agency that was set up do just that. I am delighted that he accepts that people are coming to Scotland as a result of those events. Of course, such things also need partnerships on the ground, and we now have the accolade of being one of the world's best mountain biking destinations—that is according to the cycling unions, not us. As part of that accolade, they also recognise that the Government is bike friendly. I am grateful for that, too.

I echo Fergus Ewing's sentiments. The world championships will bring in 700 to 800 competitors from 70 different countries, and there will be some 50,000 extra visitors to the Fort William area. Does the minister agree that the Off Beat Bikes downhill course on the Nevis range is fit only for people who are extremely experienced in the sport? Does she therefore agree that at least one other course should be built in the area to encourage people with less experience to take up the new sport, which promises so much for Scotland, and to take advantage of the gondola transport that facilitates the sport in that area?

In a way, Mr McGrigor is arguing against himself. The reason why the world championships are coming is the fact that the course is so severe and is one that experts want to use. It is important to take the opportunity to harness the enthusiasm that local people will no doubt build up for the event and to use it to give those people the opportunity to enjoy mountain biking. Many other matters need to be taken into consideration, not least the environmental impact on the area, so I am delighted that partners in the area are working together to work out the best strategy. If that means more routes, that is great, but that has to be balanced against other factors.

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Autism (Applied Behaviour Analysis)

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will encourage local authorities, where necessary, to support and develop applied behaviour analysis programmes at the earliest possible stage in the education of children with autism. (S2O-10483)

A wide range of approaches, including applied behaviour analysis programmes, can be used in the education of children with autism. The Scottish Executive encourages local authorities to support and develop whatever learning and teaching programmes best meet the needs of individual children at the earliest possible stage in their education.

Does the minister agree that, in the vast majority of cases, the best judges of whether a programme benefits a young person are their parents or guardians and that, in particular, parents of children with autism must have every chance to make the right choice for their children?

What advice can he give me and constituents of mine who have a four-year-old with autism whose life chances are clearly being advanced by involvement in the ABA programme, the required continuation of which is being hindered by the local education authority's refusal to allow the necessary support and back-up at nursery school?

Cathie Craigie will understand if I do not comment on the individual case. In general, expenditure on a particular intervention is a matter for the local authority, having taken account of local needs and priorities. We are aware of no conclusive research that recommends one approach or intervention over another. In reality, many schools tend to use an eclectic mix of approaches to take advantage of the best information. The outcome of any approach will depend on the individual's needs, which vary greatly, and on the intervention's appropriate application. What works for one individual might not work for another.

I appreciate that parents' views are extremely important. Under arrangements in the Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Act 2004, when a dispute arises between a parent and a local authority, mediation will be undertaken first, in order to try to sort out the matter by agreement, which is highly desirable. Arrangements also exist for the Scottish ministers to appoint an independent adjudicator and, in more limited circumstances, an appeal may be made to the Additional Support Needs Tribunal for Scotland. Any one of those possibilities may assist Cathie Craigie's constituents.

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Finance and Public Services and Communities

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Local Government Funding<br />(Free Personal Care)

To ask the Scottish Executive whether the local government financial settlement for 2007-08 will make adequate provision for local authorities to deliver free personal care. (S2O-10477)

The settlement will do so. By virtue of the agreement that we reached with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities in the previous spending review, we already provide adequate funds for the policy.

The policy was introduced to provide personal and nursing care services without charge to people who would previously have paid for them. Local authorities have always received funds, which were more than £60 million in 2001-02 and have been uprated in every year since then, to provide the services free to people who could not afford to pay for them. Local authorities should ensure that they use both those funding streams to provide personal and nursing care to people who are assessed as requiring it.

I thank the minister for that comprehensive statement. In my hand is a copy of a letter dated 24 September 2004 from the Health Department's directorate of service policy and planning to all local authority and national health service chief executives and other senior officials. It says explicitly that

"assistance with the preparation of food should be not be charged for"

under schedule 1 to the Community Care and Health (Scotland) Act 2002.

Given what that letter says and the minister's assurance in his reply, will the Executive make funding available to local authorities to allow them to refund fully all those who have been illegally charged for that service as part of a care package?

My colleague the Deputy Minister for Health and Community Care is dealing with that. He has explained to the Parliament the approach that the Health Department is taking and members will be well aware of the discussions that are taking place on the subject.

Is the minister aware that the Margaret Blackwood Foundation is removing its sheltered housing officers from its complexes in places such as Tweed Bridge Court in Peebles, which is causing great distress and anxiety to vulnerable residents? The foundation claims that that is a direct consequence of the effect on funding of legislation on care in the community. I am sure that the minister shares my concerns. Will he meet me to discuss the foundation's interpretation?

It would be more appropriate for my colleagues in the Health Department to deal with that situation. It is impossible for me to comment on individual situations of which we have no prior knowledge.

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Best Value

To ask the Scottish Executive whether the level of importance given to supporting ministers in policy development within Executive activity makes it inappropriate to compare the Executive's approach to best value with that of local authorities. (S2O-10500)

The duty to secure best value applies to accountable officers in the Scottish Executive and to local authorities. The Scottish Executive's work in supporting ministers in policy development is clearly different from local authorities' statutory duties in discharging their functions. The differences make it difficult and inappropriate to compare the Executive's approach to best value with that of local authorities.

I accept that there are differences between the tasks of Executive civil servants on the one hand and local authority officers on the other. Nevertheless, there are many areas in which comparisons can be made. Even in those areas where direct comparisons between local authority officers and Executive civil servants cannot be made, there are other sources of comparison that might be appropriate. Can the minister reassure me that every opportunity will be taken to ensure that we are getting the best value for money and the highest levels of efficiency from our civil service in carrying out the tasks that it is asked to undertake?

As the permanent secretary has explained, we have engaged in a taking-stock review that should allow us broadly to compare performance in the Executive with performance in other Government organisations. That is an important benchmark to which we will always have reference.

Will the minister try to repair the damaged credibility of the best-value and efficient government initiatives and prove claimed performances by producing robust baseline data and objective statistics that will provide the people of Scotland with some basis for discovering the extent to which efficiency, value, growing the economy, closing the opportunity gap and sustainable development have or have not been achieved?

I am shocked and surprised that Mr Mather has obviously missed the best-value monitoring report that was published just last week and showed that we exceeded the targets in the first year. That reflects the poor ability of the Scottish National Party to make policy. However, in an attempt to abide by the consensual nature of the Parliament, I will ensure that Mr Mather is acquainted with the details of the report.

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Local Income Tax

To ask the Scottish Executive what impact a local income tax would have on working families. (S2O-10502)

The examination of local income tax, along with other models of local taxation, is within the remit of the independent local government finance review committee. However, I acknowledge that there seems to be a growing weight of opinion that hard-working Scottish families would be worse off under that system.

On that basis, does the minister welcome the campaign that was launched recently by the trade union Unison, highlighting the cost to working families of the local income tax plans of the SNP and the Liberals? Does the minister agree that, if introduced, the local income tax that the SNP and the Liberals propose would be the most unpopular reform of taxation since the poll tax?

Both Unison and the trade union movement in general have an honourable tradition of passing on useful information to the general public. I am pleased that they are continuing that tradition.

Will the minister accept the growing wave of opinion among my constituents—

Bye!

Mr Stevenson is taking the mickey out of the majority of my constituents who earn the national average wage or less and who currently suffer under a regressive system of local taxation. Will the minister outline what would be wrong with having a progressive system of local taxation, based on the ability to pay?

Nothing whatever. We are all in pursuit of progressive taxation that in some way reflects the ability to pay. However, in order for the debate in the member's constituency to be as fulsome as possible, we will try to ensure that Unison's latest report is made available to his constituents.

In order for the debate to be as fulsome as possible, will the minister tell Parliament what financial penalty has been paid by hard-working families in Scotland as a result of their having to pay a larger proportion of their income in council tax payments than those in Scotland who are in a more comfortable financial situation? What financial penalty has the regressive council tax imposed on hard-working families in Scotland? Does the minister not believe that a serious examination of a local income tax would remedy the financial penalty over which he has presided for such a long time?

Goodness me, Presiding Officer, I am not sure which version of John Swinney was asking which question. Does he demand, through motions lodged by his party, that we give almost £100 million extra to councils to ease their burden and help them to consider their council tax levels, or was he inspiring stories that any extra money for local government would be a bribe? I ask Mr Swinney which day of the week it is and which Mr Swinney is addressing the chamber this afternoon.

The average increase of council tax in Scotland has been lower than anywhere else in the United Kingdom—much lower than south of the border—and we are confident that through the constructive discussions that the Executive has with local government that progressive trend will continue in the near future.

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Youth Projects (Funding)

To ask the Scottish Executive how much funding was allocated under the quality of life initiative for youth projects and whether any of this funding has been allocated to warn young people about the dangers of underage drinking. (S2O-10529)

The quality of life initiative was set up as a broad "light touch" scheme for councils to address local and central government priorities. There are two themes—improving the local environment and improving community well-being. Local authorities are asked to consult with community partners and provide indicative expenditure plans.

Local authorities have allocated just in excess of £16 million on youth projects from a total allocation to the quality of life fund of £375 million. A number of projects encourage young people to make healthy lifestyle choices including highlighting the dangers of underage drinking. For example, Dundee is to spend over £120,000 on a safe drugs-and-alcohol-free environment for young people while South Ayrshire is to spend over £250,000 on support for families with substance misuse problems.

I thank my colleague Jeremy Purvis for highlighting the issue about which I will now ask. Does the minister think that a police bottle-marking initiative, whereby police mark a certain code in invisible ink on bottles of alcohol, which has been trialled successfully by Lothian and Borders police, is a good way of trying to discover from where young people are getting alcohol and thus helping to tackle the underage drinking problem? That initiative was highlighted in the media recently.

There is no doubt that we live in a complex society. Any method that the police authorities can try to assist both young people who commit some of the behaviours that we see in our society and others who suffer as a result of those behaviours is clearly welcome. It is important that all our statutory agencies trial and pilot as many initiatives as possible to complete the search for the solutions that we all seek.

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Central Heating Programme

To ask the Scottish Executive how many homes in the FK postcode area and in Scotland have had central heating installed in each year since the introduction of the central heating programme; whether more detailed information and monitoring of the programme will be undertaken, and whether, now that the programme is to be administered by Scottish Gas, any additional safeguards are to be introduced to protect the public. (S2O-10506)

Since 2001, the central heating programme has installed 1,600 systems in the FK postcode area as part of a total Scottish figure of over 51,000 installations. In the interests of brevity and, if the member is content, I shall write to her with the detailed breakdown of the number of installations in each year since 2001 and place a copy of that information in the Scottish Parliament information centre.

As regards the new managing agency contract, performance will be monitored independently with monthly reports to Communities Scotland. The contract also sets improved standards for the level of service provided to applicants.

I would welcome that written report. Will the minister tell me how many applicants will be prioritised to ensure that the greatest need is met first? We know that there is a long waiting list for the service. Will the minister assure me that assessments will cover all needs, and that people will not be subjected to demands for additional money before the work starts, as happened to one of my elderly constituents who was asked for £150 upfront because the contractor felt that she needed another radiator?

We should welcome the central heating programme as a good news story; £62.5 million is being spent from October 2006 to March 2008. It is a good example of the partnership working between a Labour Government and a Labour-led Scottish Executive that is committed to addressing fuel poverty.

There have been challenges as the programme has progressed. Written into the contract with Scottish Gas is an expectation of improvement in customer care. We are mindful of that and have drilled into its importance with the support of members from across the chamber who have raised the challenges experienced by vulnerable people. The purpose of the programme is to protect vulnerable people. That is the challenge to Scottish Gas, and I am confident that our targets will be met.

We are looking at targeting those with greater needs but, by definition, the whole group at whom the initiative is aimed is vulnerable. We must be careful that we do not prioritise inappropriately, as we recognise that the group as a whole is in great need.

The minister will be aware that funding has not been available to the central heating programme since the spring. Can she assure the chamber that sufficient funding is now in place to allow Scottish Gas to deal with the backlog and waiting lists that have built up since the spring, especially in my constituency, to allow those who are eligible for the scheme to have new central heating systems in place before the winter sets in?

It is entirely reasonable that we should seek to get the best benefit from the huge investment that has been made in the programme. There was not no money from March this year. A target was given to Eaga Group for 6,000 central heating systems to be installed, and the new managing agent is charged with the responsibility of installing an equivalent number in the next period. There has been no break, although we recognise that there is a backlog. We reckon that, when we go into the assessment, that will reduce by 30 per cent. We are on target to meet the overall target that we have set for the year. There have been some challenges in the interim, and we are addressing those. We want to ensure that we get the maximum benefit from this significant investment for the people who need it most.

The minister will be aware that, even at the current high prices, gas is one of the most cost-effective fuels with which people can heat their homes. In the light of the appointment of Scottish Gas as the managing agent, has the Executive encouraged that company to supply gas to the many rural towns and villages that currently have no access to it even though, in my constituency, they are within a few hundred metres of gas mains?

The contract that we have with Scottish Gas is to deliver our highly popular, hugely invested-in programme. We know what the challenges are around that, and those are issues that Stewart Stevenson can address with Scottish Gas. The core business between Scottish Gas and the Executive is the central heating programme, not addressing the other issues that exist. It is critical that Scottish Gas take on the responsibility of delivering that huge benefit to people throughout Scotland.

Is the minister aware that there has not been a smooth handover from Eaga Group to Scottish Gas and that the Executive's excellent free central heating scheme has been held back? If a person needs a repair, they are told to wait six months. Six months from now, they could be a statistic in the figures for winter-related deaths.

Let me make it clear that the purpose of the programme is to improve the central heating infrastructure of people's homes; it is not intended to be a substitute for measures to assist people in crisis with specific heating needs. Those problems are not addressed through the programme. It is a general programme, and members across the Parliament agreed that it should be a general programme rather than a targeted one, given the needs of the people whom we are talking about.

We have charged the managing agent to consider the particular issues of people with health needs to determine whether there are ways in which the programme can be accelerated. However, as I have said, there are challenges in that, given the nature of the group that we are discussing. We recognised that the transition would cause some problems, but we will meet our overall target as we have met it in the past. Indeed, in the past year, we overreached our target by 1,000 installations, with 14,000 systems installed. That is clearly a good news story despite the challenges that individual constituents face.

I agree that it is a great programme. An awful lot of people in my constituency have benefited from it.

I am pleased that the Executive has taken on board some of the management issues that members have raised in the past. I visited a constituent earlier this week, and I was appalled to see the state of the central heating system that a company had installed. Can the minister assure me that, under the new contract, the managing agent will inspect work before it pays the contractors?

There is an inspection regime. People in my constituency have raised with me their experiences of central heating installations, which have not been what we would expect. We have to challenge that. The fact that the programme is free to the person who receives the system does not mean that it is free. It is an active political decision by the Executive to deliver funds to the programme, and those who install the systems should show those customers the same respect that they would show anyone else.

The fact is that the programme has given a boost not only to elderly people, but to the people who run businesses installing central heating. They should take this opportunity with both hands and prove that they can carry out quality work. I am glad that many have done so; however, I feel that individuals should not have to suffer the disappointment that Cathie Craigie has described. The critical point is that this is a good programme for individuals and the challenge for those who get the opportunity to carry out such work is to prove that they can deliver work of the highest quality.

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West Dunbartonshire Council <br />(Community Ownership Programme)

To ask the Scottish Executive what progress is being made with West Dunbartonshire Council's application to the community ownership programme. (S2O-10478)

West Dunbartonshire Council submitted its application to join the community ownership programme on 11 July. The application is being assessed by Communities Scotland and I expect to be in a position to give the council a formal response later this year.

I am delighted with that response. As the minister will be aware, the council has submitted a bid for early action funds as part of the programme to kick-start improvements by demolishing properties and building new homes.

The minister has indicated that he will decide soon on a move that will ensure that the people of Dumbarton and the Vale of Leven see welcome investment in their communities. Does he think that such investment will help to regenerate local communities such as Castlehill, which he has visited?

I was certainly pleased to visit Castlehill a few weeks ago, where I found a lot of enthusiasm for the community ownership programme. Indeed, I have seen the same enthusiasm in other parts of Scotland that I visited over the summer. A substantial investment programme is already in place; this year, for example, £10 million has been invested in affordable housing in West Dunbartonshire. However, the programme will significantly accelerate such investment. As I indicated in my answer, I certainly hope to be able to make a formal response in the near future. Of course, when West Dunbartonshire Council is admitted to the programme—I should say "if and when", but I expect it to be "when"—early action funding will be available.