Official Report 210KB pdf
The next item of business is a debate on motion S7M-01022, in the name of Shirley-Anne Somerville, on programme for government: eradicating child poverty—the Scottish Government’s defining mission.
15:10
There are few things more important than ensuring that every child grows up loved, safe and respected, and able to reach their full potential. That is why, despite the significant challenges that we continue to face, eradicating child poverty is the defining mission and number 1 priority of this Government, and, coupled with the targets that we have set in statute, we are determined to deliver. The programme for government that was published earlier this week makes clear our commitment to go further so that children and families can reach their full potential.
We are building on firm foundations and the solid progress delivered since 2017. In March, I was pleased to publish the Government’s third tackling child poverty delivery plan, which sets out how we will drive continued progress on child poverty in the years ahead. It sets out wide-ranging action, spanning Government portfolios and to be delivered with partners across the country, to help boost household incomes, reduce the cost of living and help children and their families to thrive. Modelling that was published alongside the plan estimates that those actions will keep 100,000 children out of relative poverty this year.
The Institute for Fiscal Studies has recognised the difference we are making. It estimates that some of the lowest-income households with children will be around £2,760 a year better off because of our approach to income tax and benefits, including the Scottish child payment. Our programme for government builds on those actions, setting out our commitments for the coming year and our ambitions for the current session of Parliament.
Members across this chamber will have heard loud and clear from their constituents the impact that the cost of living crisis is having on their lives. Those concerns will only grow with the increase to the energy price cap that was announced last week, with bills already £300 higher than when the United Kingdom Government came into office, despite its pledge to cut those bills by the same amount. We have all heard how the rising cost of essentials such as food and energy mean that people in our communities are having to make decisions that they should never have to make. That is why tackling the crisis is at the forefront of our efforts, bringing together our action to eradicate child poverty, grow our economy and tackle the climate emergency.
This year, we are continuing to invest more than £3.5 billion in measures that will help to cut costs for households and boost their incomes. That includes continuing free prescriptions and the delivery of free bus travel for more than 2.4 million people; freezing fares on ScotRail services; and investing in our package of winter heating payments, which are helping thousands of households that are struggling the most to meet their energy bills.
That sits alongside our wider investment in social security, including our five family payments, which are providing unparalleled support to low-income families in Scotland in comparison with those in the rest of the UK, helping them to meet the cost of essentials and give their children the best start to life. Together, our policies form the most generous cost of living package in the UK, but we know that we need to go further.
That is why our programme for government commits to protecting and expanding support, over the current session of Parliament, to ensure that more people get the help that they need; we are taking meaningful steps this year to do just that. From Monday, we will deliver a £2 bus-fare cap across the Strathclyde Partnership for Transport area, cutting the cost of bus travel for thousands of households and building toward a national roll-out by the end of this Parliament. We will consult on legislation to establish legal price ceilings on some essential food items to tackle the cost of the weekly shop. We will make nearly £2.8 million available to local authorities to write off school meal debt for families who are impacted by the cost of living crisis. That is in addition to our new welcome to school bags and the increased funding for the school clothing grant.
Together with the steps that we are taking to develop the systems and legislation needed to increase the Scottish child payment to £40 for families with a child under the age of one, that action will help to further ease the burden of everyday costs on families.
While we cannot accept the Green amendment today, I do wish to talk about the premise that women’s poverty is children’s poverty. That is an exceptionally important point, which we need to recognise. I also think that it is very important—particularly given the discussions at First Minister’s question time today—to recognise that women’s inequality is one of the root causes of violence against women in our society. It, too, must be tackled.
Our programme for government includes a clear and unambiguous statement on our intention to end homelessness in Scotland for good and for everyone, and on the importance of housing in the fight against poverty. We will do all that we can over this parliamentary session to give everyone access to a safe, warm place to call home, helping people off the streets and ending the use of unsafe and harmful temporary accommodation for children.
We have already launched our new first homes fund, and we have committed record levels of public sector investment to our affordable housing supply programme, which will support the delivery of 36,000 affordable homes and will provide up to 24,000 children with a place to call home during this session.
We have set out how we will go further. We are implementing our new homelessness prevention duties, which will ensure that people get the help that they need before they reach crisis point. That is public service reform in action.
I am sure that most members would commend the Government for trying in many of those areas, including by tackling the problems of what is effectively a failed system. Surely that is not a long-term solution, however. I have not heard the cabinet secretary talk about growing the economy, creating jobs and the value of good work. Surely that is the long-term solution to all those failures. We cannot keep patching up the system; we need to build a long-term solution. Will the cabinet secretary tell us more about that in the remainder of her speech?
Willie Rennie and I will be in agreement about that point—if I can expand on my remarks. While it is important that the Government assists households, particularly those with children, through the social security systems, it is exceptionally important to support people into work. That is exactly why the delivery plan in the programme for government mentioned the raising income through skills and education—RISE—initiative, which is being implemented through colleges and is about getting skills and childcare to work together. That is exactly why whole family support is important and it is exactly why the multiyear support for our employability schemes is integral to our programme. It is not a matter of focusing on one part of the issue; it is about looking to see what the individual needs and how we can best support them, whether that relates to childcare, transport or employability and skills.
Does the cabinet secretary recognise that, while the whole family support fund very recently gave out £20 million, that is meant to be spent by March next year? That does not enable planning or long-term certainty for the agencies that are getting that money. A lot of it is therefore frittered away or has to be manipulated. The third sector organisations using those funds need five-year stability of funding.
That is exactly why that £20 million fund is a multiyear commitment that we have made. I recognise the point that the member makes.
We will roll out our £50 million homelessness prevention fund, with £1 million already provided to strengthen tenancy sustainment activity by registered social landlords in Glasgow. We will continue to support an estimated 15,000 families who are impacted by the UK Government’s freeze of local housing allowance rates, thus supporting families to meet the costs of their rent and helping prevent homelessness. We will phase in the establishment of more homes Scotland from 1 April next year to bring together funding, expertise and delivery tools under one roof, helping to deliver more of the homes that people need.
Together, the action we will take over the course of the session will increase the supply of social and affordable homes in the places where they are needed, helping to tackle child poverty, to support sustainable communities and to drive economic growth.
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
I am just about to get to the part on skills and employment, which Willie Rennie is so keen to hear about, but I will give way to Thomas Kerr.
I appreciate that. This is on homelessness, the cabinet secretary will be glad to hear. I wonder if she agrees with me and the Scottish National Party councillor and soon-to-be leader of Glasgow City Council, Ricky Bell, who mentioned local priority on BBC Radio Scotland this morning and asked for it to be reinstated.
I have known Ricky Bell for many a year, and it would be fair to say that it would be hard to find much that Ricky Bell and Thomas Kerr have in common. Ricky Bell is interested in helping the people of Glasgow and ensuring that they have a sustainable future; it is unfortunate that Mr Kerr is more interested in causing division, in Glasgow and elsewhere.
Ensuring that people have access to the skills and opportunities that they need to succeed is also key to eradicating child poverty. Across this session of Parliament, we will fund at least 150,000 apprenticeships, create new schemes to support disabled people into work, and provide national co-ordination of a skills and employability programme that delivers locally to meet people’s needs. Our commitment to invest up to £90 million a year in devolved employability services—another multiyear commitment—includes dedicated funding to support parents’ access to and progress in work. It will build on the £22 million of funding delivered this year, in partnership with Scotland’s colleges, which I mentioned to Mr Rennie earlier. Our action will help not only to increase household incomes from employment, but to support economic growth, by helping businesses to access the skilled workforces that they need.
Our approach to increasing earnings is also underpinned by our commitment to transforming the childcare offer for families by the end of this parliamentary session, providing support 52 weeks a year for children from the age of nine months to the end of primary school.
Our programme for government sets out the key steps that we will take to make our ambition a reality. That includes continuing to fund a range of targeted childcare support for low-income families, including our extra time programme and our childcare early adopter communities, supporting more than 7,000 children and their families. It includes investing an additional £15 million this year for expanding breakfast club provision, to help schools, councils and third sector partners to prepare for the introduction of a national breakfast club offer in all primary schools by August 2027. From August 2029, there will be an after-school and holiday childcare offer, which will reduce the cost of childcare at the times that we know cause families the most challenge. In the coming year, we will publish and consult on a blueprint, setting out that phased delivery, with a focus on what matters to families.
We know that ending child poverty will never be about income alone. People’s lives are complex, and public services can play a key role in helping to prevent poverty and supporting people out of crisis. Across this session of Parliament, we will work with our local partners to deliver on our vision for whole family support, ensuring that people get the right support at the right time and place, for as long as they need it. The work that we have already undertaken through the fairer future partnerships has shown what a difference that approach can make when we work together.
I am pleased that, since returning to government in May, we have already delivered further progress. We have awarded £2 million to support the expansion of Children First’s national front door support line, which offers a one-step gateway to support families across Scotland. We have awarded 10 charities a share of £20 million from our whole family support third sector delivery fund, with the charities involved estimating that they will be able to assist up to 35,000 families. Last month, I was pleased to speak with families supported by the Salvesen Mindroom Centre in Dundee; they made it clear to me the difference that such services can make to their lives.
We will continue to build on that progress by maximising the opportunities for lawful data sharing and by co-designing a partnership agreement with the third sector that recognises its critical role in tackling poverty and inequalities. Again, that is public service reform in action, focused on enabling local partners to bring support together and making services work for the people.
The programme for government published this week sets out our ambitions for Scotland over the next five years. It unashamedly sets out our commitment to ensuring that families have access to the safe, warm and affordable homes that they need to thrive; to delivering a transformational expansion of childcare; and to delivering on our vision for whole family support. These actions will help to change the lives of children and families across the country and will drive continued progress towards the eradication of child poverty.
In June, I announced a review of our child poverty targets to further strengthen our approach, ensuring that the targets continue to drive the right decisions and the changes that families need. Our approach is underpinned by our commitment to rewiring the state in Scotland and delivering public service reform that is focused on improving our public services so that they work for the people of Scotland.
In 2017, members unanimously agreed legislation in relation to the eradication of child poverty. Although some members and parties in the chamber have changed, I really hope that our focus on child poverty has not.
I move,
That the Parliament notes the publication of the Scottish Government’s Programme for Government, Ambitious for Scotland, and its actions aimed at eradicating child poverty and supporting families with the cost of living; recognises the ambition to go further by transforming the childcare offer for families, delivering a £2 bus fare cap across all of Scotland, and investing record public sector funding in affordable housing; welcomes the focus on ensuring support for families is integrated, person-centred and accessible, including through delivery of the £20 million Whole Family Support Third Sector Fund; supports the commitment to build on action set out in the Tackling Child Poverty Delivery Plan for 2026-31, which is estimated to keep 100,000 children out of relative poverty this year, and to going further and faster so that every child has the chance to succeed regardless of their circumstances, and commits to working together to drive continued progress toward the eradication of child poverty in Scotland.
I call Julie MacDougall to speak to and move amendment S7M-01022.5.
15:24
I thank the minister for securing this important debate. It is also important to state from the outset that Reform members believe that more Scots should be able to feel that they can start families. In the face of Scotland’s demographic crisis, our young people should be encouraged to do so and raise our next generation of workers, as opposed to the import-first policy that is shared by the rest of the parties here.
I want to focus on two major factors that can have a massive impact on a child’s life chances and family life—the economic opportunities available to their parents and access to housing.
In its “Poverty in Scotland 2025” report, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation found that all lower-income families—regardless of size—had experienced steep declines in their quality of life. It was particularly concerning to read that the rate of what it called in-work poverty increased to six in 10 people, with three-quarters of children who are classified as being in poverty falling into that category.
Although I commend the Scottish National Party Government for finally talking about employment as a means of addressing child poverty, it seems to once again take a back seat in this programme for government. When reading the section on putting more money in families’ pockets, I noticed that, out of the five bullet-point policies that were presented, only one of them talked about low-income parents staying in jobs. That is simply not good enough. It was especially disappointing to see that one of those policies encourages maximising “take-up of benefits”.
I echo the sentiments of my party leader, Malcolm Offord, expressed on Tuesday. For those who are able and fit to take it on, meaningful and well-paid work should always be more financially and emotionally rewarding than claiming benefits. However, to achieve that, the SNP needs to support our local businesses and industries to start creating better-paying jobs. That would mean overriding the nearly 20 years of net zero ideology and overbearing business regulations pursued by this Government, both of which have been proudly paraded in this latest document.
Even when talking about skilled jobs, these so-called new ideas seem to fall flat when this SNP Government proposes them. For more than a decade now, instead of encouraging young people to celebrate success in any field, the SNP has indulged itself in the same kind of snobbishness as the old Blairites. That is a closed mindset that says that going to university is inherently more valuable and means that those people are more educated than someone who picks up tools and gets a technical qualification—
Will the member take an intervention?
I would like to make some progress with my speech.
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
I would like to make some progress, as I said.
That closed mindset suggests that those people are more educated than someone who picks up tools and gets a technical qualification in college or simply learns better on the job.
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
If Mr Brown would not mind, I would like to continue with my speech and then I will come back to him. [Interruption.]
Members, can we hear the member who has the floor, please?
I think that I am allowed to make way on my speech. Is that correct, Deputy Presiding Officer?
Yes.
Thank you.
If that were not the case, the Scottish Government would not have been sleepwalking into a national skills gap crisis for the past 10 years, and our colleges would have been given the support and respect that they so rightly deserve.
I remind members of the question that I asked John Swinney before summer recess. I asked him whether he would look into reforming the funding mechanisms for apprenticeships to sustainably establish the many placements that the programme for government hopes to create. At the time, I was given a backhanded response, but the programme for government gives me my real answer. The Government does not have a plan, it does not have a clue and it does not want to listen to the colleges that are on the brink of financial collapse. [Interruption.]
I want to try to wind up by talking about the difficulties that families and children face on housing. [Interruption.]
Members, can you settle down, please?
As a Fife councillor, I have personally witnessed too many cases—
Will the member take an intervention? [Interruption.]
I will wait until you have finished and then I will continue. [Interruption.]
Members, we have an important debate to get through.
As a Fife councillor, I have personally witnessed too many cases of families being crammed into housing that is way too small for their needs.
At one time, social housing used to be a safety net for those families who fell on hard times. Now, it works like a lottery in which you might be put in for a ticket but there is little chance of actually winning. We in Reform have said from the start that not only do we need more housing, we need to make sure that social housing prioritises the locals, especially children, who are in most need.
Once again, I can only say that anything in the programme for government proposed by John Swinney that resembles a good idea on that issue lacks both detail and credibility. With some help from the Greens and others, the SNP has created what is probably the most hostile regulatory landscape when it comes to building homes in Scotland. It has meant that homes are more expensive for developers to build, more expensive to sell and, therefore, less available to low-income families. Once again, the Government seems to think that creating more bureaucratic institutions, drafting more laws and throwing more of our constituents’ money at the problem will make it go away. That is simply not good enough: there are real lives at stake and too many children, particularly those in social care situations, who will struggle for the rest of their lives due to nearly 20 years of spin, piecemeal fixes and corporate bullet-point policies disguised as any kind of real leadership.
This programme for government was not indicative of a fresh, innovative administration. It proves more than ever that the Government is desperate for ideas, but not so desperate that it will listen to the people on the ground who may contradict it. I was elected to reflect the views of those people who have been ignored for far too long. On that basis, I cannot support the programme for government.
I move amendment S7M-01022.5, to leave out from “recognises” to end, and insert:
“notes that, by the Scottish Government’s own admission, child poverty is above its 2023-24 interim target of 18%, meaning that approximately 210,000 children are still living in poverty; expresses its disappointment that, despite the buzzwords and branding of its title, Bringing Hope, Building Futures, the Scottish Government’s tackling child poverty delivery plan for 2026-2031 will not reach the 18% target until 2031; acknowledges that child poverty cannot be tackled in isolation, but rather by the totality of Scottish Government’s policies; believes, that, in particular, the combination of Scottish Government policies on taxation and business regulation as well as lagging educational attainment have a detrimental impact on the economy and, as a result, the incomes and job opportunities for families, which undermine the positive impacts of policies designed to reduce child poverty, and calls on the Scottish Government to commission an independent review into whether its taxation, business regulation and education polices have led to the higher than expected levels of child poverty.”
I remind members that it is up to the member who is speaking whether they wish to take an intervention.
15:32
When the Parliament passed the Child Poverty (Scotland) Act in 2017, the cabinet secretary who led that legislation, Angela Constance, told members:
“statements of intent are all very well, but it is what we do that counts.”—[Official Report, 8 November 2017; c 62.]
I completely agree. Nearly a decade later, when it comes to child poverty, that intent still lies far from delivery and Scotland’s children continue to pay the price. Children are still going to school hungry, despite their parents skipping meals themselves. They are worried about rent, bills and whether their family can keep a roof over their heads. Those are the kinds of worries that should be the furthest thing from children’s minds. They should be dreaming big and thinking about what they can achieve in life, rather than having those concerns.
It is a real worry that child poverty has become a generational tragedy. Too often, children born into poverty grow up to raise their own children in poverty. Despite having the powers to take a different path, we are still failing far too many young people. The Government comes to the chamber at the start of this parliamentary session and, once again, says that eradicating child poverty is its defining mission. However, it seems as though, instead of having a credible plan to meet its own legislative targets, the Government is settling for moving the goalposts. Reviewing the definition of poverty will not lift a single child out of it. The Child Poverty (Scotland) Act 2017 was meant to hold ministers accountable for progress, but organisations such as the Joseph Rowntree Foundation have questioned whether the latest delivery plan meets the requirements of the act, and only 26 per cent of people in Scotland believe that the Government has done enough to tackle child poverty. Ministers have argued that income-based targets fail to capture the impact of childcare, employability support and wider family services—but the problem is not that those policies are missing from the targets, it is that they have not been delivered at the scale that we require.
Nowhere is that seen as clearly as it is in housing. Today, nearly 10,000 children are living in temporary accommodation without the security and stability of a permanent home. No Government in the world could claim credibly that child poverty is a defining mission while record numbers of children remain trapped in temporary accommodation. Housing policy is child poverty policy. If ending child poverty is truly the Government’s mission, then getting those 10,000 children into permanent homes should be the priority.
Labour has set out practical measures to reduce poverty, including helping parents into secure employment through a parent work scheme, affordable childcare that works for families, support with holiday childcare costs, family network hubs that are based on sure start principles, breakfast clubs in every primary school, action on school debt and a renewed focus on tackling homelessness.
Clearly, there are welcome areas of crossover in the programme for government. We welcome them and we would be happy to support them, but we would like to work to push the Government further on some of the measures that I mentioned. Those are anti-poverty policies because they help parents earn more, reduce, costs and improve children’s life chances.
Mr Griffin and some of his Labour colleagues have described the Scottish child payment as “game changing”. It has undoubtedly supported our aim of reducing child poverty in Scotland. If the UK Government replicated that, it would also have a significant impact across the UK. Why have his UK colleagues not sought to follow suit?
The child payment has had a clear impact, but it has not had enough of an impact. The Government is still close to miss its legally binding child poverty targets—so that is still an issue.
The UK Government has implemented a range of child poverty reduction measures, including one that Neil Gray and I have campaigned for: the removal of the two-child limit. That will be the single biggest measure to lift children out of poverty in the UK since before the early 1990s.
There is still work to do. Scotland has done something different with the child payment, but that is the beauty of devolution. Social security is devolved to Scotland, and that is to be welcomed, but it is not to say that nothing is happening at the UK level. Ongoing work is happening there.
The UK Government is working on child poverty, bringing together housing, employment, childcare and family support in a completely cross-governmental way because reducing child poverty has never been only about social security, as Neil Gray would acknowledge. It is also about providing secure homes, affordable childcare and well-paid work and using absolutely every lever at our disposal to tackle child poverty and improve family incomes and opportunities.
Although we campaigned for the Scottish child payment way before its introduction, and it has lifted children out of poverty, there is more to be done. Wider intervention by the Government is needed if it is to lift children out of poverty.
I ask Mr Griffin to conclude.
I will finish with a question to the Government. Does it still intend to meet the child poverty targets that were set out in the 2017 act? Reviewing them will not pull a single child out of poverty, but delivering on them will.
I move amendment S7M-01022.1, to leave out from “supports” and insert:
“regrets that, while eradicating child poverty has been a defining mission for the Scottish Government for nearly a decade, too many children remain trapped in poverty, record numbers are living in temporary accommodation and key anti-poverty measures have not been delivered; reaffirms the commitment to meet the targets set out in the Child Poverty (Scotland) Act 2017; believes that a new approach is clearly needed with a focus on both delivery and tackling the root causes of poverty; further believes that tackling child poverty requires action across housing, homelessness, childcare, employment and family support as well as finally closing the attainment gap, and believes that if ministers are serious about delivery, they should engage in cross-party working to achieve the statutory targets and improve outcomes for children and families across Scotland."
15:39
Six years ago, the Scottish Government declared a climate emergency; two years ago, it declared a housing emergency; and, as we heard in June, Scotland remains in a child poverty emergency.
The cabinet secretary has laid out how she plans to eradicate child poverty in the years ahead. That is no small feat, and I commend her dedication and holistic view on how to tackle child poverty in this country through whole family support, childcare and cost of living measures. I also welcome her agreement with the part of the Greens’ amendment that connects child poverty with women’s poverty, and I look forward to working with her on that front.
The rest of this Official Report will be published progressively as soon as the text is available.
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