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Chamber and committees

Meeting of the Parliament [Draft]

Meeting date: Wednesday, September 3, 2025


Contents


Finance and Local Government


Working-age Economic Inactivity

To ask the Scottish Government what assessment it has made of the impact on the public finances of working-age economic inactivity. (S6O-04874)

The Minister for Public Finance (Ivan McKee)

The Scottish Government routinely analyses the data on economic inactivity that is produced by the Office for National Statistics. Increasing economic participation can have economic and fiscal benefits, and a Scottish Government analysis that was published last October indicated that even a relatively small increase of 0.25 percentage points in the economic activity rate could boost gross domestic product in the long term by around 0.1 per cent—£180 million—each year.

That is why we are taking action across Government to support people to enter, remain in and progress in work through devolved employability services, health and work support and various commitments in the programme for government.

Kenneth Gibson

I thank the minister for that comprehensive reply. Students are the largest cohort of economically inactive people in Scotland, where we have four-year degrees.

Of those people seeking work in Scotland, 72,000 received employability support from April 2022 to September 2024. Will the minister advise which programmes were most successful in returning people to work, what plans there are to roll out such programmes across the country, and the anticipated average annual boost to both the individual’s and the nation’s finances of each person who moves out of economic inactivity?

Ivan McKee

As I indicated, a whole range of programmes are in place. As was outlined in the programme for government, we have introduced specialist employability support across Scotland to enhance services for disabled people and those with long-term health conditions. Alongside that, we have improved the healthy working lives service and working health services Scotland to ensure that support is available for employees and employers who are managing health challenges in the workforce. Devolved employability services, which are backed by £90 million in 2025-26, play a pivotal role in supporting people towards and into sustainable fair work.

It is worth pointing out that the Deputy First Minister is working with Public Health Scotland and a range of private sector employers on pilot programmes to help to move those individuals back into work.

Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con)

A large proportion of those who are economically inactive are inactive because of ill health, and Scotland has a particularly poor record in that regard. When will the Scottish Government develop strategies along the preventative health agenda to prevent people from falling into ill health in the first place?

Ivan McKee

The data shows that economic inactivity in Scotland is 21.9 per cent, which shows a 1.4 per cent reduction since last year, so that number is moving in the right direction. It is worth pointing out that there are a range of reasons for economic inactivity, including in relation to students—as Kenny Gibson pointed out—and individuals who have retired or who are caring for family members at home. Around a third of that figure is due to ill health.

The work within the population health framework, along with the other work that my colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care is taking forward, is very much targeted at how we join up economic activity with health-related support to get those individuals back into work. The work that the Deputy First Minister is taking forward—which I outlined—in conjunction with Public Health Scotland and private sector employers is also very much in that space.

Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD)

Mental health issues, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and autism contribute to a significant proportion of cases among the 20-odd per cent of the working-age population who are economically inactive, but the national health service does not seem to have an effective pathway for ADHD and autism, and the waits for mental health services are incredibly long.

What discussions is the minister having with the health department to ensure that we can get the system ready in order that we can get those people back to work so that they can make an economic contribution to the country?

Ivan McKee

As I indicated, a range of activities are happening. My colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care is working with the economy portfolio, Public Health Scotland and others to ensure that those services are joined up and are focused on returning people to work as effectively and efficiently as possible.


Ethical Divestment (Support for Public Bodies)

2. Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)

To ask the Scottish Government what steps it is taking to support local authorities and other public bodies to apply ethical criteria when deciding whether to divest from sectors such as fossil fuels, arms companies and businesses complicit in occupation or war crimes. (S6O-04875)

The Minister for Public Finance (Ivan McKee)

Local authorities are responsible for their pension investments, and pension scheme legislation requires them to publish a statement about their investment principles, which should include the extent of their environmental, social and ethical considerations. The Scottish Government has published a business investment framework and guidance on sustainable procurement, and the Scottish National Investment Bank has a responsible and ethical investment policy. There is also guidance for public bodies on carrying out due diligence checks on companies to see if they are associated with human rights abuses. Public bodies are responsible for deciding on their actions in individual cases.

Patrick Harvie

I lodged the question before I was aware that there would be a statement from the First Minister on such issues. I hope that that will touch on the question, and I look forward eagerly to hearing the detail of it.

Nevertheless, there is in Scotland local government legislation—to which my colleague Ross Greer drew the Scottish Government’s attention over the recess—that places restrictions on local authorities applying ethical criteria in the way that I have set out. We are all, each of us, free to apply ethical criteria in our choices. Can the minister agree that there should be no reason in principle why decisions that are made collectively on behalf of us all should be restricted in the ethical criteria that they apply on the basis of the political views of democratically elected councillors?

Ivan McKee

First, the member is correct to say that there will be a statement by the First Minister later this afternoon. Clearly, members will have to wait and see what it contains, but—as Patrick Harvie identified—it will touch on some of those issues.

With regard to the principle, it is important to recognise that, in this area, there is a mixture of devolved and reserved competence and that, in order to have an effective policy, we need to be able to unpick that and understand the extent of devolved competence so that we can legislate accordingly. In principle, however, I do not disagree with Patrick Harvie’s comments.


Public Bodies that Incur Substantial Legal Costs

3. Ash Regan (Edinburgh Eastern) (Alba)

To ask the Scottish Government what role the finance secretary has in authorising any continued expenditure of public bodies that incur substantial legal costs, including those covered by the clinical negligence and other risks indemnity scheme. (S6O-04876)

The Minister for Public Finance (Ivan McKee)

Public bodies, including those covered by the clinical negligence and other risks indemnity scheme, are responsible for making their own decisions, including those regarding expenditure and ensuring compliance with the requirements of the Scottish public finance manual, which is issued by Scottish ministers. Whether to pursue, defend or concede any legal claim is therefore a decision for the public body in question.

Ash Regan

Media reports of the NHS Fife tribunal highlight the escalating legal costs that will ultimately come from Scotland’s national health service budget, and Scottish Borders Council recently lost a judicial review over a primary school’s failure to provide single-sex toilets for pupils. Will the minister confirm whether he will look into that issue? All recipients of public funding, including local authorities, the third sector and public bodies such as the NHS and its central legal office, should surely be fully compliant with the Supreme Court judgment in For Women Scotland Ltd v the Scottish Ministers. Is the minister considering taking any action against those who fall short of the standards of lawful accountability for public finances? I am sure that the public would rightly expect that.

Ivan McKee

It would, of course, be inappropriate for me or for other Scottish Government ministers to intervene in or comment on on-going legal cases. That maintains the independence of the legal process.

As Ash Regan is aware, the scheme that we have referred to is set up to share risk across a range of organisations in order to minimise the impact from any specific case. It is important to note that the Scottish Government does not provide public authorities with legal advice and that it is up to each public authority to take its own independent legal advice. It is also important to recognise that the membership of the scheme is mandatory for all NHS Scotland health boards and that the costs of the majority of NHS Scotland’s legal cases are met by the scheme.


Local Authorities (Transformation Programmes)

4. David Torrance (Kirkcaldy) (SNP)

To ask the Scottish Government how it is working with local authorities to deliver transformation programmes and accelerate any reforms needed to achieve financial sustainability and ensure that local services are fit for the future. (S6O-04877)

The Minister for Public Finance (Ivan McKee)

Alongside record funding, our public service reform strategy, which was published in June, sets out how we are working with local government on programmes such as whole-family support and fairer futures partnerships to accelerate change and deliver services that are preventative, better joined up and more efficient. By tackling systemic barriers and empowering local leadership, we will ensure that services remain sustainable and fit for the future.

David Torrance

Will the minister provide reassurance that the Scottish Government will continue to work constructively with councils such as Fife Council, which serves my constituency, to support innovation, protect front-line services and ensure that communities such as Kirkcaldy benefit from sustainable, modernised local services?

Ivan McKee

Yes, I can categorically offer that reassurance. Along with the record funding settlement and early and meaningful budget engagement, the Scottish Government will continue to work in partnership with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and individual local authorities such as Fife Council on how to ensure that we provide sustainable, people-centred services.

We will also continue to engage constructively with the United Kingdom Government to highlight the importance of sustainable public services to ensure that the people of Scotland continue to receive the high-quality public services that they expect and deserve.

Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con)

The minister will be aware that Scottish National Party-run Dumfries and Galloway Council has withdrawn some key subsidised bus services as a result of what it describes as “funding constraints”, following a widespread review of the region’s bus network. From Sanquhar to Langholm, that is causing huge difficulty and distress for residents, young and old. Will the Scottish Government, as it prepares its next budget, commit to a full and fair funding formula for Scotland’s rural councils, and ensure that it properly funds Scotland’s at-risk rural bus network?

Ivan McKee

Of course, those decisions are for local authorities, but it is worth pointing out that the Scottish Government is providing record funding to local government in the current financial year. Discussions are under way—indeed, my colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government is undertaking budget discussions at the moment—to make sure that we continue to offer ever-increasing amounts of funding to local government. The funding formula is a matter for COSLA, which, in conjunction with local authorities, decides how best to allocate that funding across the country.

Paul Sweeney

Is the minister open to the offer that was made by the UK Government to work in collaboration to strengthen public procurement rules, guidance and legislation to ensure that local authorities and the Scottish Government can drive greater value from procurement into local supply chains and that we get better value in the Scottish economy as a result?

Ivan McKee

We are always in the business of looking for opportunities to further improve in that area. However, it is worth recognising that, when we look at the specifics of what the UK Government is offering, we see that it is trying to catch up with where the Scottish Government already is on procurement rules and practice. The data shows that 46 per cent of public procurement spend in Scotland is with small and medium sized enterprises; that compares to around 25 per cent of spend south of the border.

We have made significant progress in that area in Scotland, and we continue to make it. I met with the Federation of Small Businesses during the past couple of weeks to talk about what else we can do, but as I said, it is the case that the UK Government is running to catch up to where Scotland already is.


Council Services (In-person Access)

5. Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green)

To ask the Scottish Government what support it can provide to local authorities to help ensure that all residents across the north-east can access local council services, including help when things go wrong, in person as well as online. (S6O-04878)

The Minister for Public Finance (Ivan McKee)

During 2025-26, local authorities in north-east Scotland will receive more than £1.8 billion to fund local services, which equates to an extra £120 million—or 7 per cent—to support vital day-to-day services compared with 2024-25.

Local authorities are independent corporate bodies with their own powers and responsibilities. However, the Scottish Government will continue to work in partnership with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and individual local authorities to ensure that the people of Scotland continue to receive the high-quality public services that they expect and deserve.

Maggie Chapman

Dundee Pensioners Forum and other organisations are calling for the re-establishment of face-to-face access to local council offices. Limited access has curtailed communities’ opportunities to address potentially complex issues, such as those relating to reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete and those associated with the maintenance of homes and the surrounding environment. It also excludes, in particular, those with limited access to information technology or skills. How will the Scottish Government work with councils to enhance that aspect of community engagement to ensure that all residents—regardless of digital access or skills—can get support when they need it?

Ivan McKee

I am not aware of the specific situation in Dundee that the member refers to. However, the Scottish Government is focused on digital inclusion through its digital strategy and on ensuring that everybody is able to enjoy service provision using digital services is part of that process. Of course, when there are reasons why that is not possible, public bodies should continue to provide services face to face when that is most appropriate. The situation in Dundee is a matter for the council there.


Social Care Services (East Dunbartonshire)

To ask the Scottish Government how much funding it has allocated to East Dunbartonshire Council to help meet any additional costs of providing social care services for an ageing population. (S6O-04879)

The Minister for Public Finance (Ivan McKee)

East Dunbartonshire Council will receive revenue funding of £280.6 million in 2025-26 as a result of the Scottish budget. It is for the council, as a democratically elected body, to determine how to allocate that funding, including funding for social care services, on the basis of local needs and priorities.

We appreciate the pressures that are faced by the health and social care sector and by local government. That is why we provided record funding for both during 2025-26, including almost £2.2 billion of investment for social care and integration.

Rona Mackay

With nearly 18,000 people in Strathkelvin and Bearsden—my constituency—now over the state pension age and with estimates showing that 15 per cent of local pensioners are living in poverty, with more than £1.4 million in pension credit going unclaimed every year, does the minister agree that raising awareness of poverty-reducing benefits is crucial, as is high-quality, sustainable social care?

Ivan McKee

I agree with the member. That is why we have a benefit take-up strategy, to which there is no United Kingdom Government equivalent. We are taking steps to tackle barriers to take up and we are putting money in the pockets of those who need it most. In 2025-26, we allocated £16.9 million to fund advice services, including Citizens Advice Scotland’s money talk team, which supported more than 12,000 older people last year. Similarly, it is likely that we will all use social care at some point in our lives, and improving the quality, standards and consistency of care for people is absolutely necessary.

Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con)

The East Dunbartonshire health and social care partnership has highlighted in its 2025 to 2030 strategic plan that there is a need to move away from traditional service models to a whole person and community approach due to financial challenges and increasing demand. In April, council tax for East Dunbartonshire residents rose by 13 per cent. This summer, the people I spoke to at their doors said that they are not receiving value for money. What is the minister’s response to all those who are paying more but risk receiving less when it comes to social care?

Ivan McKee

First, those decisions are made locally and, as I have indicated, record funding is going into the system across local government and social care.

The member made an important point in the first part of her question about how to deliver those services most effectively, which gets to the heart of the work that we are taking forward in the public service reform strategy. The work builds on the Christie principles to focus on prevention and ensure that the money is most effectively directed to the front line to better integrate public services so that her constituents and others across the country receive the best possible service from local government.


Public Services (Empowering Local Communities)

7. Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)

To ask the Scottish Government what steps it is taking to encourage and support local authorities to empower and enable people and communities to have a greater say over the delivery of local public services. (S6O-04880)

The Minister for Public Finance (Ivan McKee)

Through our joint commitment with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities to the democracy matters process, we are designing new community decision-making arrangements. That aims to increase participation and enhance the role of communities in local service delivery. We are also providing funding for the new city citizens assembly pilot in Mr Rowley’s constituency, led by the Electoral Reform Society and Fife Council, to enable people to have a greater influence over the future of Scotland’s newest city. That is alongside support for local authorities to mainstream participation through the delivery of participatory budgeting and our recent review of the Community Empowerment (Scotland) Act 2015.

I will correct myself—the pilot is in Ms Somerville’s constituency, and Mr Rowley is a regional member.

Alex Rowley

The Scottish National Party Government published the Christie report back in 2011. The report’s main recommendations focused on reforming public services in Scotland through empowerment, collaboration, prevention and performance-focused efficiency. It recommended empowering individuals and communities in service design, promoting integrated services through partnerships, prioritising preventative measures and holding services accountable for improving outcomes and value for money. Some 14 years later, in my opinion, very little of what the Christie report set out has been achieved. Indeed, I would argue that the centralisation of public services over that period is a complete contradiction to what the Christie report set out.

Do the minister and the Government accept that they have failed to implement the Christie recommendations? Will they therefore look at how we can genuinely empower local authorities to take power out of the Parliament into local authorities, so that they can take that power into communities? That has failed.

Ivan McKee

I agree with the first part of the member’s question but not with the second part. The Christie principles are absolutely central to the work that the Government is taking forward. I am sure that the member has read in great detail the public service reform strategy that we published in June, which contains many examples of where those principles have been effectively applied across a whole range of policy areas, including prevention, empowerment, integration and more effective and efficient service delivery. We continue on that journey, and the public service reform strategy gives us clear direction, through its 18 workstreams, as to how we do that.

As I have already indicated, the Government is taking forward democracy matters work in collaboration with local authority partners at COSLA on how we take the empowerment and service design agenda down to the community level. To make that as local as possible is hugely important. I indicated that the work on the citizens assembly in Dunfermline, which is funded by the Scottish Government, is very much part of that work. However, I am always happy to engage with any member—

Thank you, minister.

—who wants to contribute to taking the agenda forward.

Thank you, minister. I am keen to squeeze in the last question.


Agency Staff (Scottish Government Expenditure)

To ask the Scottish Government for what reason it is reportedly spending over £1 million every week on agency staff, in light of its having announced plans to reduce corporate costs. (S6O-04881)

The Minister for Public Finance (Ivan McKee)

In support of the budget and the wider public service reform agenda, the Scottish Government is proactively addressing the need to control workforce size to remain fiscally sustainable. Within the core Scottish Government, the number of contingent workers is now 47 per cent lower than in March 2022.

The use of contingent workers has been in decline in order to support a more managed approach to workforce deployment and to reduce cost. Employing temporary and agency workers provides the flexibility that is required to meet business needs, access specialist and other skills quickly and adapt where a need for a resource is short term. When services might be required for only a short time, it is very often the most cost-effective way of providing them, rather than employing someone full time.

Alexander Stewart

Does the minister accept that every pound that is spent on agency staff bureaucracy is a pound that is taken away from our schools, hospitals and local council services, which are already on their knees because of this Government’s mismanagement?

Ivan McKee

Alexander Stewart will be aware that the Scottish Government works within a fixed budget and balances its budget every year. The whole point of the public service reform agenda is to continue to move resources from the corporate functions and to deploy them to the front line in exactly the way that he has talked about. The strategy contains a number of examples of ways in which we have successfully done that. I have just cited the example of the number of contingent workers, which is 47 per cent lower than it was three years ago. We will continue to deliver on that agenda in order to free up those resources and ensure that they are deployed effectively in an integrated way on the front line.

That concludes portfolio questions on finance and local government. There will be a short pause before we move on to the next item of business.