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Chamber and committees

Plenary, 09 Dec 1999

Meeting date: Thursday, December 9, 1999


Contents


Question Time


SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE


Rural General Practitioners

1. Mr Duncan Hamilton (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will detail the support available to general practitioners serving rural communities. (S1O-822) The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon): GPs serving rural communities receive the same fees and allowances as their urban counterparts. They can also receive support through additional payments and schemes, which have been introduced in recognition of the needs of general practice in rural areas.

Mr Hamilton:

Is the minister aware of the real crisis facing many rural GP practices across Scotland, including the one at Dalmally near Oban? Will she concede that the decision to press ahead with the Arbuthnott report as it stands will mean a cut for Argyll and Clyde Health Board? If the minister had had the humility to read the report of the Health and Community Care Committee, that cut would not be implemented and the Dalmally practice's position would be buttressed. Does she regret not giving a more considered response to the report of the Health and Community Care Committee on the Arbuthnott report, and will she admit that her actions undermine the Executive's commitment to rural health care?

Susan Deacon:

Mr Hamilton does a great disservice to the Parliament and to the issues that he raises. His question serves to indicate what a mass of hyperbole he is becoming. Not for the first time, he uses the word crisis in the same sentence as a reference to the health service completely falsely and unnecessarily. I am very much aware of the situation in Dalmally to which he refers. I point out to the member that the matter is in fact a question for the Scottish Medical Practices Committee.

If Mr Hamilton and other members care to look at the press release that I issued on the Arbuthnott report, they will see that I said very clearly, as I have said throughout, that I and the Executive will examine very carefully all 90 submissions that have been received in response to the consultation exercise including, obviously, the submission of the Health and Community Care Committee. We will reach conclusions based on a careful and considered response to the consultation. We are determined to put in place a fairer system for the allocation of health service

resources that is linked to need. We are keen to do that at the earliest possible opportunity.


Strategic Rail Authority

2. Mr Murray Tosh (South of Scotland) (Con):

To ask the Scottish Executive, further to the statement made by Sarah Boyack on 7 October 1999, whether the proposed strategic rail authority will have powers and resources to provide grant aid to assist with the construction of new railway lines in Scotland, other than passenger revenue subsidies, and whether such powers will be subject to executive devolution to the Scottish Executive and Parliament. (S1O-803)

Yes. The shadow strategic rail authority administers the rail passenger partnership scheme, designed to encourage improvements in the rail network. The Scottish Executive will be consulted on applications from Scotland.

Mr Tosh:

Will the Scottish Executive have full control over a given percentage of the amount available to the strategic rail authority, or will it have to bid on a project-by-project basis? Can the minister indicate the budget that she expects to be able to command in the life of this Parliament?

Sarah Boyack:

The budget will be allocated for the whole of the United Kingdom. Schemes in Scotland will have to be justified in terms of their effectiveness for the whole of the UK rail network. Resources for the Scottish passenger franchises, which have already been discussed in Parliament, are also available from the shadow strategic rail authority, amounting to £120 million this year alone.


Anti-drug Education Programme

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will publish any evidence it holds on the effectiveness of its anti-drug education programme in reducing the extent of drug use among young people. (S1O-826)

We are continuing to evaluate the impact of schools drugs education as part of the Scottish drug strategy. We will publish the results of recent research shortly.

Trish Godman:

Will the deputy minister seek to ensure that no school will or can opt out of drug education programmes, which aim to protect children? Given his answer to my first question, can he assure us that he will continue to monitor those programmes and bring the results to the chamber regularly?

Peter Peacock:

We want to ensure that every school participates in the drug education programme. I cannot see any good reason why any school in Scotland should exempt itself from that programme. I am happy to give an assurance that we will keep the matter firmly under review.


Student Finance

To ask the Scottish Executive when it expects to report to the Parliament on any recommendations from the independent committee of inquiry into student finance. (S1O-790)

The committee intends to present its report to the Executive on 21 December and we will lay a copy in Parliament that day.

Mr Swinney:

The deputy minister will recall that when Parliament accepted Mr Jim Wallace's motion to establish the independent committee, it was stated that the committee should report to Parliament. Does he agree that it is rather strange that the committee has decided to report when Parliament is not meeting? Does he agree that it is utterly inappropriate for the coalition partners to be joining together in a Cabinet committee, formed by Mr Henry McLeish to discuss the issue, before Parliament has had any opportunity to discuss the subject?

Nicol Stephen:

I can understand that some members might prefer the report to be published while the Parliament is in session. Equally, I am sure that all members agree that this is, and should be, a matter for Parliament, not for the Executive. In its proposals for dealing with the Cubie committee's recommendations, the Executive will announce its plans in due course. We, and all MSPs, look forward to digesting the committee's proposals over the festive period.

Mr Swinney:

Notwithstanding the deputy minister's Christmas day reading, does not Nicol Stephen find it contradictory—and he may find it contradictory when he reads the answers that he has just given in the Official Report—that Parliament set up the committee of inquiry, yet it is the Executive that will be forming a response to it when the Parliament is not in session? Surely that is a betrayal of the motion agreed by this Parliament on Mr Wallace's suggestion.

Nicol Stephen:

No, it is not. I checked this morning the motion put before and approved by Parliament. The clear intention was that the report be submitted to the Executive on the basis that the Executive would get absolutely no forewarning of it. It will be received by the Executive on the same day that it will be laid before Parliament. That was the intention when Parliament set up the committee of inquiry, and that is what will happen.

The date of publication, as should be the case with an independent inquiry, is entirely a matter for Mr Andrew Cubie and the other members of the committee of inquiry.


National Park

5. George Lyon (Argyll and Bute) (LD):

To ask the Scottish Executive when a decision is to be taken on the boundaries of the Loch Lomond and Trossachs national park. (S1O-811) The Minister for Transport and the Environment (Sarah Boyack): The enabling legislation will be brought forward early next year. Once it has received royal assent, we will prepare, after full consultation, a designation order to set up a national park in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs, and set its boundaries. The order will be subject to approval as normal by the Scottish Parliament.

Will the minister look favourably on the submissions, when they come forward, to include Argyll forest park as part of the Loch Lomond and Trossachs national park when the consultation phase is over?

Sarah Boyack:

I would be happy to consider representations from different areas on whether they want to be included or excluded in the national park's boundaries.

I am happy to announce that I have asked Scottish Natural Heritage to continue its work on both areas of potential national park status and to take forward discussions with local stakeholders and interest groups. It seems appropriate that those discussions could continue in the area that George Lyon has described.


Roads (A75)

6. Alasdair Morgan (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive when it intends to publish a route action plan for the A75. (S1O-821) The Minister for Transport and the Environment (Sarah Boyack): The route action plan study is in the final stages of preparation. I expect to receive a report for my consideration in the near future.

I have to say that that is a very disappointing response. I have a letter here from one of Sarah Boyack's many predecessors.

Order. Mr Morgan, you do not have to say anything. You have to ask a question.

Alasdair Morgan:

Is Sarah Boyack aware that one of her many predecessors, Malcolm Chisholm, wrote to me in November 1997 to say that a route action plan was being developed?

How long does it take to develop a route action plan, and does she think that it is a fitting way to recognise the strategic importance of the A75 for Scotland, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland?

Sarah Boyack:

It is important that we get the action plan right and that we identify the correct way forward. I am keen to ensure that, on that road and on many others in Scotland, we make the right decisions. We do not have enough resources to do everything, but I am keen to take the views of Mr Morgan and those of my colleague Elaine Murray, who has talked to me about this issue. I know that the A75 is a matter of great concern in Mr Morgan's area and I hope that we will be able to produce a finalised plan soon.


Fire Service

To ask the Scottish Executive what fire service property and equipment is now owned privately as a consequence of construction through the private finance initiative or public private partnerships. (S1O-807)

None.

Mr Quinan:

I thank the minister for that answer, which clarifies the situation. I am sure that the minister agrees that the fire service and the vital cover that it provides will be particularly important over the coming holiday period. Not only is the risk of fire greater, but the service is expected to provide assistance during flooding and storms.

Throughout the millennium celebrations this winter, I have no doubt that the pressure on all the emergency services will be particularly high. Therefore, will the minister join me in condemning the fact that, while this Parliament will enjoy a millennium break, the fire service will be expected to provide cover for our celebrations without a single extra penny in payment? Does he acknowledge the damage to morale that will be caused by the fire service being the only emergency service to work without millennium pay?

Order. I remind members that points of view are not supposed to be expressed in questions. That is made clear in standing orders. Mr MacKay, will you answer Mr Quinan's supplementary question?

I can confirm that there are no prospective private finance initiative or public private partnership projects that will have any impact on service provision over the millennium.


Banking Facilities

8. Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive what steps it is taking to encourage Scotland's banks to provide banking facilities in local communities. (S1O-798) The Minister for Communities (Ms Wendy Alexander): We have encouraged the banks to provide basic, low-cost current accounts for all and to identify ways of improving access to these products through partnerships with credit unions, post offices and housing associations.

Patricia Ferguson:

Does the minister agree that the lack of commercial banking facilities in many of our communities means that many of the services once provided by banks are now provided by credit unions, such as the Maryhill and Greater Milton credit unions in my constituency? Does she agree that the role of credit unions is particularly important in preventing debt and consequent reliance on loan sharks?

Ms Alexander:

Credit unions have an important role to play, which is why we welcomed the recent report of the Treasury task force, chaired by Fred Goodwin, which considered how to improve the regulatory climate for credit unions.

I am aware that, in Scotland, many local authorities and housing associations are helping to establish credit unions such as Queens Cross Housing Association, in the member's constituency, which provides facilities for credit unions.


Hill Farming

9. Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive what proposals it has to promote hill farming in the Scottish Borders. (S1O-818) The Minister for Rural Affairs (Ross Finnie): The Scottish Executive is committed to maintaining hill farming throughout Scotland, including the Borders. More than £300 million will be paid this year in beef, sheep and hill livestock compensatory allowance subsidy payments, most of which will go directly to those who farm in our hills and uplands. The Agenda 2000 package will result in higher levels of direct support to beef producers, estimated to be worth an additional £50 million in 2000.

Christine Grahame:

I thank the minister for his answer. Is he aware that Scottish Borders Enterprise and Scottish Borders Council are financing a feasibility study into establishing a meat processing plant in the Borders, with estimated capacity for 500 sheep a day? Does he agree that locating such a plant in the Borders would allow the Galashiels abattoir to be utilised fully, with the possibility of the Hawick abattoir being reopened? Consequentially, that would allow the marketing of products as Borders lamb.

Does the minister agree that such action would have major economic benefits to farmers and to the Borders, and will he confirm that the Executive will assist with the necessary capital funding if the report, which is due to be published in March, makes a positive recommendation?

Ross Finnie:

I will have to await the publication of that report. As Christine Grahame knows, while such a development could be important for the Borders, we have an overcapacity of total slaughtering capacity in Scotland and it would not necessarily be in our interests to increase that. However, I look forward to the report with interest.


Landfill

10. Dorothy-Grace Elder (Glasgow) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will take steps to ensure that any residents in the districts of Mount Vernon, Carmyle, Baillieston and Sandyhills affected by any problems associated with Paterson's toxic landfill site receive immediate compensation, possibly in the form of a reduction in council tax. (S1O-834) The Minister for Finance (Mr Jack McConnell): No. There are no provisions within council tax regulations that allow the payment of compensation to local taxpayers who live adjacent to Paterson's landfill site.

Dorothy-Grace Elder:

I thank the minister. As his own proposals involve an increase in council tax, can he think of any way in which it would be possible to compensate those who are forced to pay the already high levels of council tax in Glasgow, but who happen to reside next to a toxic tip that has been described by the public health department in Glasgow as emitting smells so noxious that they are literally breathtaking?

There are no provisions in the council tax regulations to make such payments. That position is clear.


Pig Industry

11. Alex Fergusson (South of Scotland) (Con):

To ask the Scottish Executive what plans it has to ensure that Scotland retains a viable pig industry into the 21st century. (S1O-795) The Minister for Rural Affairs (Ross Finnie): As Mr Fergusson will be aware, the operation of the European Union state aid rules makes it difficult, if not impossible, to provide any direct financial assistance to the pig industry. I am, however, committed to doing what is possible to help the home industry by seeking to ensure that consumers, caterers and retailers recognise the high quality and welfare standards of Scottish

pigmeat.

Alex Fergusson:

I thank the minister for his answer, but that will be of little comfort to the pig farmers who are in the public gallery today. Does the minister accept that the opinion of a growing number of farmers from all sectors is that, as far as their needs are concerned, the Executive has become no more than a talking shop, and that, as far as the pig sector is concerned, that will continue to be the case until meat hygiene and inspection charges are taken over as part of the health budget and away from the primary producer, in common with many other European countries, until the question of country of origin labelling is addressed immediately—

We must have a question.

Alex Fergusson:

I am asking a question, Presiding Officer—and until the minister takes a proactive lead in approaching both Nick Brown and Franz Fischler to fight for state aid to ensure that Scotland retains the healthy pig industry, which is only weeks away from total collapse?

Ross Finnie:

Mr Fergusson knows perfectly well that the answer that I gave to his first question outlined the major stumbling block to providing aid that would overcome the price that we acknowledge the home industry must pay for the stall and tether ban and the BSE costs. We are fully aware of that, and it is a matter that we will continue to prosecute in Europe. Until we can overcome the state aid problem, we are in a difficult position, as Alex Fergusson knows. He also knows that, through our consultation we are trying to tackle misleading labels of origin. We hope that that will ensure that those labels will state the country of origin, not say that bacon is cured in Scotland if it is not processed here.

Alex Fergusson also knows that we have been promoting that aid within the Scottish home industry, and that we have provided additional advertising aid to promote the Scottish pig initiative. Alex Fergusson is quite wrong in suggesting that we are taking no action at all. We are not complacent. We recognise the difficulties and know the problems that must be overcome.


Fur Farming

12. Ms Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it has any plans to ban fur farming. (S1O-797) The Minister for Rural Affairs (Ross Finnie): I announced last week that the Scottish Executive will introduce a bill in the Scottish Parliament to ban fur farming in Scotland. That follows the decision to introduce similar legislation for England and Wales and is required to prevent fur farming businesses relocating to Scotland.

Further to the minister's reply, which agreed to legislation, can he give Parliament an indication of his proposed time scale, as a bill has now been published that prohibits fur farming in England and Wales?

Ross Finnie:

I have no precise timetable, but Ms Oldfather is absolutely right. The intention of the Executive is to ensure that we produce a consultation paper in time to deal with the responses, to run in parallel with the legislation that is being introduced in England and Wales and to ensure that there will be no relocation of those businesses in Scotland.


Teachers

13. Mrs Lyndsay McIntosh (Central Scotland) (Con):

To ask the Scottish Executive what plans it has to improve the morale of teachers in North Lanarkshire. (S1O-814) The Deputy Minister for Children and Education (Peter Peacock): Our aim is to develop a stronger, more self-confident teaching profession throughout Scotland, through, among other things, our proposals for continuing professional development and the work of the McCrone committee.

Mrs McIntosh:

I thank the minister for his response. I am sure that those in Cumbernauld will welcome his efforts. Does he believe that the recently announced consultation on the introduction of compulsory testing for primary and early secondary school pupils—which seems quite familiar to me and to others in the Conservative party—will impact on the morale of North Lanarkshire teachers, and that it will be more welcome now than when it was first proposed?

Peter Peacock:

We are in the process of issuing a wide-ranging consultation paper that dwells on the benefits of our experience in the past few years, and seeks to strengthen the system in a variety of ways. We look forward to hearing people's input into that consultation.


Airport Rail Links

14. Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive what plans it has to improve rail links to Scottish airports. (S1O-809) The Minister for Transport and the Environment (Sarah Boyack): I understand that Railtrack is currently working with Strathclyde Passenger Transport Executive to assess options for providing a rail link to Glasgow airport. A rail link to Edinburgh airport has also been examined a number of times.

Mr MacAskill:

Is the minister aware of the report that was published in September 1997 by the Association of European Airlines that indicated

that there should be rail links to airports that have a traffic volume of around 3 million passengers? That report also indicated that the only two international airports on the mainland of the United Kingdom that did not fit that criterion were Edinburgh and Glasgow. Those airports now have passenger turnover of approximately 6 million per annum and £54.6 million was paid in air passenger duty last year. Surely it is lamentable that there is still no rail link to either of those airports, which serve 6 million passengers.

Sarah Boyack:

I am happy to remind Mr MacAskill that air passenger duty is a reserved matter. I am keen to ensure that the Scottish Executive takes forward the issue of improving access to airports. I do not know whether Mr MacAskill is aware of the current Scottish airports study, which will examine our airports in terms of the next 30 years. Access and surface links will be examined in that study. I expect to take forward its key recommendations to ensure that we improve access to airports, as we did only two weeks ago through the new service linking passenger rail services from the north of Scotland via the Inverkeithing airport link, which is now running regularly.


Convention of Scottish Local Authorities

15. Mr Keith Harding (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):

To ask the Scottish Executive when the Deputy Minister for Local Government last met representatives of the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and what issues were discussed. (S1O-787) The Deputy Minister for Local Government (Mr Frank McAveety): My most recent meeting with COSLA was on Monday 6 December when I, along with the Minister for Communities, met COSLA representatives to discuss housing issues.

Mr Harding:

Does the minister agree that yesterday's financial statement for local government will mean further job losses and service cuts, and that it does nothing to address the plight of pensioners, whose pension increases will be wiped out by council tax increases?

Mr McAveety:

I thank Mr Harding for his crocodile tears about the alleged plight of many folk across Scotland—[Interruption.] I will get to the answer if members from the Scottish National party extend the courtesy of allowing folk to get to the end of answers without interruption. Such interruptions are a common occurrence in this Parliament.

We believe that yesterday's settlement was fine and fair and we want to work in conjunction with local authorities to ensure that we deliver changes. I remind the chamber that many folk from the SNP yesterday complained about council tax increases.

Last year, they advocated greater increases for many places in Scotland.


Concessionary Fares

16. Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive how much local authorities spent in the year 1999-2000 on concessionary fares for bus, rail and ferry services in Scotland. (S1O-801) The Minister for Transport and the Environment (Sarah Boyack): The Scottish Executive does not hold the information requested for the current financial year. The provisional outturn expenditure for concessionary travel schemes that are operated by local authorities for the 1998-99 financial year is £41.6 million.

Can the minister give some information about other community-based transport initiatives that will help older people?

Sarah Boyack:

It is worth commenting on two things. First, there are the community transport initiatives in rural areas, which the Executive is supporting and which have a direct benefit for elderly people. The other is our objective of improving and harmonising existing concessionary fare schemes throughout Scotland. I call to Dr Jackson's attention the scheme that the Executive launched last week. That scheme results in blind people getting free travel throughout Scotland.


Polio Centre

17. Hugh Henry (Paisley South) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive what plans it has to establish a centre of excellence to provide health care and therapies to people with polio. (S1O-825) The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon): There are no plans to establish a national centre to provide health care specifically to people with polio. A range of support and advice is, however, available across the national health service in Scotland to those who have, or have had, polio.

Hugh Henry:

Is the minister aware of the problems faced by older people who suffered polio as children? Is she aware of the concern that support and expertise is not being provided throughout Scotland and of the demands for a concentration of specialists services?

Susan Deacon:

I am very much aware of the condition now known as post-polio syndrome and of the views expressed by individuals and organisations on that. I have looked carefully at the issue and I believe that the current NHS provision meets those needs.

It is worth noting that there have been no new cases of polio in Scotland for two years and it is

more than 30 years since there was an epidemic. That is a testament to our immunisation programmes over the years. I hope we can say the same in the future about meningitis C.


Secretary of State for Trade and Industry(Meetings)

18. Alex Neil (Central Scotland) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive how many times the First Minister has met the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry since May 1999. (S1O-791) The First Minister (Donald Dewar): I have had no formal meetings with the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry since May 1999, but of course our departments keep closely in touch about matters of mutual interest.

Alex Neil:

I suggest that the First Minister should arrange a meeting with the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry and say to him that, over the past two years, an eighth of all quoted companies based in Scotland have disappeared, either through takeovers or mergers, which represents a major erosion of the economic base in many sectors of the Scottish economy. Will he press for powers over takeovers and mergers to be transferred to this Parliament so that we can protect the future of the Scottish economy?

The First Minister:

That was debated during the passage of the devolution legislation and it was at the urging of Scottish business that it was decided to leave those matters on a United Kingdom basis. As far as the general situation is concerned, there are examples of mergers and of failures and successes. The important thing about the Scottish economy is that we are ahead of the pace, with the lowest unemployment claimant count for well over 20 years and low and stable inflation. When I talk to people either in manufacturing or in the service sector, particularly financial services, they say that the economy is supporting their efforts more effectively than for decades.


Island General Practitioners

19. Tavish Scott (Shetland) (LD):

To ask the Scottish Executive what progress is being made towards introducing flexibility into the postgraduate education allowance to address the travel costs faced by island-based general practitioners who wish to update their training. (S1O-831) The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon): I have no plans to review the travel cost element of the postgraduate education allowance. My officials and the Scottish general practitioners committee of the British Medical Association are, however, holding discussions on more flexible access to the full allowance for GPs in remote areas, including the islands.

Tavish Scott:

Will the minister accept that while distance learning has its place, island GPs depend for maintaining their professional role on a training regime that includes personal contact between GPs? Will she investigate the concerns of GPs in Shetland that the time being taken to come to a decision on this matter is over years, not months?

I want to ensure that we reach the right decision and that we take effective steps to meet the learning needs of GPs in remote rural and island areas. I will ensure that progress on it is maintained.


Local Government Boundaries

21. Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether there will be any possible consequences for local government boundaries arising from any legislative provision for the future reduction in the number of members of the Scottish Parliament, whether it will make representations on any such consequences and, if so, what its representations will be. (S1O-785) The Deputy Minister for Local Government (Mr Frank McAveety): No, the Parliamentary Boundary Commission has no power to alter local government boundaries.

Lord Douglas-Hamilton:

Is the minister aware that, in the past, local government boundaries have been influenced by the position of parliamentary boundaries? If the numbers in this Parliament are reduced by a fifth, as is planned under current legislation, that could have a big impact on the manning of committees and would hardly be a signal of confidence in the Parliament.

Mr McAveety:

I do not accept that portrayal. It is a bit rich from someone who was an architect of the most recent botched reorganisation of local government to lecture anyone about boundaries. We will address the matter when it is appropriate but we do not believe that it is appropriate to look at the boundaries of local authorities in this context.