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Chamber and committees

Meeting of the Parliament

Meeting date: Wednesday, November 7, 2012


Contents


Portfolio Question Time


Rural Affairs and the Environment

Good afternoon. The first item of business this afternoon is portfolio questions on rural affairs and the environment. I would be grateful if questions and answers were succinct.


Peatlands Restoration (Emissions Reductions)



1. To ask the Scottish Government what it is doing to realise the potential of peatland restoration for emissions reduction purposes. (S4O-01426)

The Minister for Environment and Climate Change (Paul Wheelhouse)

We are working with Scottish Natural Heritage to develop a peatland plan for Scotland. In support of that, on 22 October I announced funding of £1.7 million over three years for peatland restoration. The commitment is in recognition of the multiple benefits that peatland restoration and maintenance can provide. We have provided funding for restoration, in particular in the flow country of Caithness and Sutherland.

Graeme Dey

I draw the minister’s attention to evidence given to the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee in April that an average spend of £12 million per year over 10 years might be required if we are fully to grasp the opportunity. The sum might be arrived at by drawing down funding from a variety of sources, such as the common agricultural policy, the LIFE+ programme and Scottish Water, as well as the Scottish Government. What work is being done to determine how sufficient moneys can be amassed from such sources, to ensure that we fully restore Scotland’s peatlands and maximise their contribution to combating climate change?

Paul Wheelhouse

The funding that is being provided will be used to develop and implement a peatland plan and will support physical restoration activity.

I endorse the committee’s view that peatlands provide a number of benefits. Peatland restoration projects have the potential to be supported by a number of funding streams. I assure the member that as part of the development of the peatland plan we will consider how funding streams might be utilised, as well as opportunities for drawing on private sector support. I am pleased to note the positive progress of the joint bid by SNH and RSPB Scotland to the Heritage Lottery Fund, which has advanced through the first stage for further consideration.

Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab)

What is being done to educate the public and involve communities and schools, such as the school in which I used to work near Braehead Moss, in relation to lowland raised peat bog conservation? Lowland raised bogs are a rare and threatened habitat and their management helps with flood prevention and in many other areas, including biodiversity and carbon storage.

Paul Wheelhouse

I acknowledge the point that Claudia Beamish made. I have met the Scottish Wildlife Trust, for whom raised bogs, particularly in lowland and central Scotland, are a key area of concern. I will shortly have a discussion with Michael Russell on how we can incorporate biodiversity and environmental messages into curriculum for excellence, and I will take forward the point that Claudia Beamish made.

Does the Government think that farm support schemes should recognise and reflect the value and public good of peatlands on farms and crofts?

Paul Wheelhouse

I acknowledge the point that Jamie McGrigor made. It is true to say that we are still evolving our understanding of the impact of peatland in the context of abatement of climate change and sequestration of carbon. I will take on board the member’s message.


National Marine Plan



2. To ask the Scottish Government on what date it will publish its national marine plan. (S4O-01427)

The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and the Environment (Richard Lochhead)

As is set out in the revised statement of public participation, it is expected that the national marine plan will be adopted towards the end of 2014. We will formally consult on a draft plan next summer. The timing allows for an integrated consultation that includes marine renewable sectoral plans and proposals for marine protected areas.

Sarah Boyack

I thank the cabinet secretary for the timetable. The fast pace of development in the marine environment, including in the renewables and aquaculture sectors, was a key reason why the Parliament legislated for a marine plan in the Marine (Scotland) Act 2010. Is there scope to prioritise and bring forward the plan, so that it can provide certainty for industry and lead developments in such sectors, rather than being led by them?

Richard Lochhead

One reason why we want to take a little more time before we consult on the draft national marine plan is that, in discussions with us, stakeholders said that they want everything to be looked at in the same context, in an integrated way. The plan will influence developments in Scotland’s waters for the next few decades, so we must get it right. We must look at all the issues in the round.

I am confident that we will end up with a regime that balances all interests in the way that our waters require, and that the developments that go ahead in the meantime are taking account of environmental and other considerations.


Recycling Rates (Improvement)



3. To ask the Scottish Government what it is doing to improve recycling rates. (S4O-01428)

The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and the Environment (Richard Lochhead)

Prior to the establishment of the Scottish Parliament, Scotland’s recycling rate was under 5 per cent. Today our recycling rate exceeds 40 per cent and the zero waste plan has set Scotland on a path to 70 per cent.

This year, zero waste Scotland is providing funding to help roll out household food waste collections. The Scottish Government has also made available a further £1.2 million to support improvements to household waste recycling centres and to improve other measures, such as glass collections.

Those are only highlights of the broad programme of support that zero waste Scotland is providing to businesses and local authorities.

Can the cabinet secretary expand on what is being done to encourage a cut in food waste and say what is happening across the country to expand food waste collections?

Richard Lochhead

If the member is able to grab the occasional spare moment, he might see the good television advertising campaign that is currently under way and which encourages people to cut down on their food waste, given that one fifth of our household food ends up in the bucket, which is a cost to the budgets of homes across Scotland and to the environment.

It is also worth saying that zero waste Scotland is making £5 million available to local authorities to help them to roll out household food waste collections. That will help to ensure that, by the end of the year, an additional 485,000 households will have their food waste collected, with more to follow over the next two years. Given that, only a couple of years ago, virtually no home anywhere in Scotland was part of a food waste collection scheme, I hope that the chamber will recognise that that is significant progress in addressing the scandal that has developed over many years of how much food we waste as a society. We take the challenge seriously.


Land Action Scotland



4. To ask the Scottish Government what its position is on the aims of land action Scotland. (S4O-01429)

The Minister for Environment and Climate Change (Paul Wheelhouse)

The Scottish Government supports community involvement in the local management and ownership of land, and Patrick Harvie will be aware that the Scottish Government has established the land reform review group with a view to understanding how land reform can support sustainable development.

Patrick Harvie

I hoped for a slightly more ringing endorsement of the campaign’s objectives. It aims to

“challenge landed power in Scotland and the concentrated pattern of private landownership”

and to

“democratise land and allow the people of Scotland to reclaim a stake in their own country.”

I hope that the Government strongly endorses the aims of the campaign and that the minister will confirm that he will keep open the option of reviewing legislation if the campaign finds that those aims cannot be achieved in the current context.

Paul Wheelhouse

Approaches by land action Scotland to specific charitable organisations might result in specific changes, such as the Mount Stuart Trust’s decision to change its memorandum and articles of association to democratise the organisation and the similar moves in Applecross.

We recognise the issues that are involved, but I repeat that the Scottish Government remains committed to the land reform review group, which we have charged with a radical review of land reform issues. I trust that that will address the points that the member raises.

Jean Urquhart (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)

Does the land review group intend its meetings with land action Scotland to be undertaken in a similar format to the ones that it has had with Scottish Land & Estates, Community Land Scotland, the Development Trusts Association Scotland and the Scottish Tenant Farmers Association?

Paul Wheelhouse

The land reform review group is independent of Government in terms of its choices on the gathering of evidence, although we are kept informed of what it is doing. If the member wishes land action Scotland to participate in the process, she should encourage it to write to the chair of the land reform review group and ask for a meeting.


Schmallenberg Virus



5. To ask the Scottish Government what action it has taken to minimise the impact on agriculture of the Schmallenberg virus. (S4O-01430)

The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and the Environment (Richard Lochhead)

The Schmallenberg virus is a relatively low impact disease spread by midges, although infection during particular stages of pregnancy can lead to problems around lambing or calving time. Helping producers to make informed management decisions is key to minimising the impact of the Schmallenberg virus. The Scottish Government has therefore funded enhanced surveillance and delivery of guidance to veterinary practices, and it has worked with the industry to facilitate the testing of animals that are imported from affected areas.

Angus MacDonald

Although no acute cases have been recorded in Scotland, it is clear that farmers who have recently imported livestock from high-risk SBV areas must be extra vigilant and ensure that introduced breeding stock are tested for the virus. I am aware that work is going on to produce a vaccine. Does the cabinet secretary have any detail on progress regarding an SBV vaccine and whether there is an estimated timescale for its introduction?

Richard Lochhead

I should point out for the record that, so far, four premises in Scotland have been confirmed as having the virus, which compares with about 300 south of the border. Clearly, we must pay close attention to the issue.

A vaccine could offer a solution to the issue for livestock keepers. As the member might be aware, vaccines are usually developed by commercial enterprises, which must seek a licence from the United Kingdom Government before they make a vaccine commercially available.

As things stand, no vaccine has yet been approved for use on these islands, but I understand that a submission has been made to the UK Government’s veterinary medicines directorate for a provisional licence for a vaccine. The uncertainties that are associated with vaccine licences as a result of the rigorous nature of the testing that is required before they are put on the market mean that it is difficult to say exactly what the timescale will be for making that available. However, we hope that a vaccine will be available in the near future.

Alex Fergusson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)

I am sure that the cabinet secretary will agree that, in the case of any disease such as Schmallenberg, rapid reporting is important for its control. Where has the cabinet secretary got to in his consideration of the Kinnaird review, which recommended the closure of a number of Scotland’s veterinary investigation centres?

Richard Lochhead

As the member might be aware, no decisions have yet been taken on the recommendations of the review, which we will consider in the months that lie ahead. Cases such as the outbreak of Schmallenberg virus—no doubt, that is the context of the member’s question—highlight the importance of our surveillance infrastructure in Scotland and why we have to get those decisions right.

Has the Scottish Government considered testing milk tankers for the virus rather than the more laborious method of testing individual farms, so as to identify potential sources more efficiently?

I highlight the point that the virus is midge borne, but I am happy to speak to our scientists to investigate Iain Gray’s point. I will perhaps drop him a note to explain the background on the suggestion that he makes.


Report on Proposals and Policies



6. To ask the Scottish Government when it will publish the second report on proposals and policies. (S4O-01431)

The Minister for Environment and Climate Change (Paul Wheelhouse)

That is a complex and wide-ranging project, and work is on-going to ensure that the draft report is sufficiently robust to remain relevant for at least the next five years. Our intention is to lay the draft report on proposals and policies, or RPP 2, in the Parliament by the end of 2012 and to ensure that there is adequate time for consultation. We will of course keep Parliament up to date.

Malcolm Chisholm

Given that the first emissions target under the Climate Change (Scotland) Act 2009 was missed, how will the revised RPP for 2010 to 2022 ensure that Scotland meets all the future legally binding climate targets that the Parliament has set? Does the minister agree that an important part of that will be shifting as many proposals as possible into the realm of policies?

Paul Wheelhouse

Malcolm Chisholm rightly points out that it is essential for Scotland to convert as many proposals in the RPP into policies as possible. Obviously, we will take that forward in the publication of RPP 2, the main focus of which is the period from 2022 to 2027. However, we will refresh the analysis that is presented in relation to the objectives that are set out in the RPP. The Government will certainly work hard to meet the legally binding annual emissions targets and the overall targets that have been set. The Government is determined to meet those targets.

Can the minister give me an assurance that, given the importance of RPP 2, the Government will focus on getting it right and that Parliament will be given adequate time to consider the document?

Paul Wheelhouse

Angus MacDonald is absolutely right to ask that. We are conscious of the view in the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee and more widely in the Parliament that members are keen to ensure that they have adequate time to give feedback on the draft RPP 2 and ensure that it is a robust document. Given that there is considerable global attention on the document, it is important that it is robust and absolutely correct.

Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)

Committees in the Parliament are currently completing their budget scrutiny. How are any of us to have the faintest clue whether the Government’s climate change policies are adequately funded when we do not know how those policies will be changed to make up the lost ground from the missed target?

Paul Wheelhouse

I recognise Patrick Harvie’s point—he has raised the concern about the tie-in to the budget on a number of occasions and did so again when we met recently. As I said in response to Angus MacDonald and Malcolm Chisholm, we will ensure that the document is robust.

As we promised, we have presented information to committees on the detail of current spending on measures that have an impact on meeting our climate change targets. I hope that that will inform discussion of the Government’s proposals by subject committees and the Finance Committee.


Air Quality in Cities



7. To ask the Scottish Government what progress is being made on improving air quality in cities. (S4O-01432)

The Minister for Environment and Climate Change (Paul Wheelhouse)

The Scottish Government is working closely with local authorities, the Scottish Environment Protection Agency and other partners to improve air quality in cities. We support a number of local and national measures to tackle air pollution successfully. They include the establishment of a statutory framework and clear strategic aims for air quality and transport; providing grant funding for local authority actions; and providing advice and information through the Scottish air quality website and Scotland’s environment web.

Colin Keir

Queensferry Road at Barnton and St John’s Road in Corstorphine in my constituency have some of the highest air pollution levels in the city of Edinburgh. What action is the Scottish Government taking to ensure that local authorities comply with carbon monoxide targets, to mitigate the health effects of air pollution?

Paul Wheelhouse

As a former resident of the area to which Colin Keir refers, I recognise the issue that he raises.

Addressing local air quality issues is a matter for local authorities. The Scottish Government provides technical support and funding to monitor and, when appropriate, support actions. We maintain regular contact with the City of Edinburgh Council and other local authorities to give them help and advice in fulfilling their statutory air quality responsibilities.

Given that the failure to meet the European Union air quality directive targets can result in fines, what consequences does the Scottish Government believe that it will face if we continue to miss the targets?

Paul Wheelhouse

I agree with Claire Baker that it is important that we meet our targets under the air quality directive. In partnership with Transport Scotland, SEPA, local authorities, the United Kingdom Government and others, the Scottish Government is working on a range of measures to ensure full compliance as soon as possible. Those measures are set out in detail in the UK’s application to the European Commission for a time extension to adapt to the targets.


Private Drinking Water Supplies (Quality Improvement Grants)



8. To ask the Scottish Government what the take-up rate of grants for improving the quality of private drinking water supplies has been in the last three years. (S4O-01433)

A total of 995, or 5 per cent, of Scotland’s 19,886 registered private water supplies have been improved in the past three years. Grants totalling £5,121,590 have been received.

Given the relatively low take-up rate, what policies and practices is the minister pursuing to advertise the grants and ensure that take-up improves in this particularly important area for public health?

Paul Wheelhouse

The member raises an important point. Local authorities administer the private water supplies grant system on the Scottish ministers’ behalf. Many local authorities actively promote the system. For example, information is available on local authority websites and, when samples that are taken from private water supplies fail to meet standards, letters and leaflets are sent to owners and users.

Some local authorities have advertised the grant system at farming events, in journals that are aimed at landlords, in radio interviews and even on the side of council vans. The grant scheme is also promoted on the Scottish Government’s website and by the drinking water quality regulator for Scotland on its website and in its annual report.


Crofting Reform (Scotland) Act 2010



9. To ask the Scottish Government what progress it has made on implementing the provisions of the Crofting Reform (Scotland) Act 2010. (S4O-01434)

The Minister for Environment and Climate Change (Paul Wheelhouse)

Excellent progress has been made towards implementing the 2010 act. The Crofting Commission has been established with a firm focus on becoming an effective regulator. It has become more democratic and, as the member is no doubt aware, I recently appointed Susan Walker as its convener. In addition, secondary legislation is almost complete, and instruments that relate to the implementation of the crofting register were recently laid before the Scottish Parliament.

Dave Thompson

The not unreasonable requirement for reports on how crofts are being used has caused some concern among crofters, who are not sure exactly what is required. What guidance has been or will be provided to grazings clerks and common grazings committees on the production of such reports on crofting activities in their areas?

Paul Wheelhouse

The commission is discussing and consulting on how best to ensure that the obligation is met by all concerned. That will feature at the crofting assessors conference in Inverness on 21 and 22 November, which is one vehicle for ensuring that people are aware of the requirements.

The commission hopes to develop a user-friendly duty report form for grazings committees to complete, which will highlight issues that the commission might consider addressing. Guidance will be provided in due course, once that process is completed.


Justice and Law Officers


North Ayrshire (Crime Levels)



1. To ask the Scottish Government what the level of crime in North Ayrshire was in 2007 and what it is now. (S4O-01436)

The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)

Recorded crime in North Ayrshire has decreased by 5 per cent since 2007. In 2006-07, 9,871 crimes were recorded in North Ayrshire; in 2011-12, 9,378 crimes were recorded there. That welcome reduction is helping to contribute to the lowest levels of recorded crime in Scotland for 37 years.

Kenneth Gibson

To what extent does the cabinet secretary believe that the focus on innovative community policing, which has seen the number of community officers in North Ayrshire increase from 30 to 140 under the Scottish National Party, has contributed to the impressive fall in crime, which continues to decline?

Kenny MacAskill

Police officers throughout Scotland do a fantastic job, and the innovative work in North Ayrshire is simply a part of that. The Government believes that a visible police presence correlates with our having the lowest recorded crime in 37 years. The visible police presence reassures good citizens and deters those who would be bad. That is why we are delighted that we have maintained the 1,000 additional officers that we committed to: we have delivered them and they are working in our communities.

Margaret McDougall (West Scotland) (Lab)

Given the high incidence of domestic abuse in North Ayrshire, the 7 per cent rise in domestic abuse incidents, the fact that “Third Force News” reports that two in three women are being turned away from refuges, and the fact that 30 per cent of domestic abuse charities are finding a funding deficit in 2011-12, what additional resources can the Scottish Government offer those vital services so that women who experience domestic abuse get the support that they need?

Kenny MacAskill

Significant and record funding is being put in to tackle domestic abuse. Much of the funding for dealing with the victims, apart from the support for Victim Support Scotland, comes through other portfolios. I have no doubt that my Cabinet colleagues would be able to comment on that.

The member is right to raise the issue. It is a matter that the former chief constable of Strathclyde, who is now the chief constable of the new police service of Scotland, has commented on. It is clear that domestic abuse is part of the culture of violence that we have in Scotland, and it is an issue that we have to address. When that is allied to the abuse of alcohol, significant problems are experienced, although it is not always dependent on alcohol.

I give the member an absolute assurance that the current police services and the new single service will continue to prioritise the issue, and my colleagues in other departments will continue to address the victims’ needs. Equally, we will continue to work with Victim Support Scotland, Scottish Women’s Aid and all the other agencies, which do a remarkably good job in tackling what is in many instances a cultural problem that needs to be addressed by each and every one of us, especially males.

The cabinet secretary will be aware of much of the comment surrounding the introduction of a single police service. Will the move to a single service impact on police numbers in Ayrshire?

Kenny MacAskill

No, I do not believe that it will. The deployment of officers will always be a matter for the chief constable, but as I said in response to Kenneth Gibson, we believe that it is the visible police presence that has got us to a 37-year low in recorded crime, together with the significant progress that we have made across other areas of crime. The whole purpose of reform is to ensure that we do not go down the route that is being taken south of the border, where almost 16,000 officers are to be lost. That is almost as many officers as currently serve—and will continue to serve—in Scotland.


Review of Expenses and Funding of Civil Litigation in Scotland (Report)



2. To ask the Scottish Government when Sheriff Principal Taylor’s report on the review of expenses and funding of civil litigation in Scotland will be published. (S4O-01437)

It is hoped that the report of the review of expenses and funding of civil litigation in Scotland will be published before the Scottish Parliament’s summer recess, which, as members will know, is set to begin on 29 June 2013.

Roderick Campbell

Does the minister agree that the expenses and funding of civil litigation cannot be considered in isolation from the funding and operation of the courts? Accordingly, can the minister confirm that the Scottish Government will take account of Sheriff Principal Taylor’s findings before final views are formed on the future court structures project?

Roseanna Cunningham

Although the Government does not implement anything in isolation, the Taylor review is independent and any recommendations will be a matter for Sheriff Principal Taylor. Ensuring that people can exercise their individual and collective rights and helping to resolve disputes fairly and swiftly are important pillars in creating a flourishing economy, and the Scottish Government has embarked on a series of national programmes that will deliver the most radical set of reforms to our courts and tribunals in more than a century and which must all be taken together. The making justice work programme will improve Scotland’s civil and criminal justice system by improving procedures and case management, which will widen access to justice and will also significantly change court structures on the basis of the proposals of the Lord President, Lord Gill. The findings of Sheriff Principal Taylor’s independent review, too, will be integrated into the making justice work programme.

Of course, we cannot reform the structure of our courts without reviewing the court estate. The Scottish Court Service has issued a consultation that is also independent of Government and on which responses are invited from interested parties by 21 December. It will be for the Lord President to decide on the basis of that consultation which of the proposals should be pursued, and they will come before the Scottish Government and Parliament. I assure the member that all these matters will be looked at together.


Prison Estate (West of Scotland)



3. To ask the Scottish Government what plans it has to improve the prison estate in the west of Scotland. (S4O-01438)

The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)

On 29 October 2012, I wrote to the Justice Committee advising that I had agreed the Scottish Prison Service chief executive’s recommendation that the SPS proceed to develop Her Majesty’s prison Inverclyde as a custom-made national prison for women offenders, with both the regime and the building fully meeting the aspirations and recommendations of the commission on women offenders. In order to facilitate that change of use for the planned HMP Inverclyde, HMP Greenock will be retained in the medium term as a local prison for male prisoners.

Stuart McMillan

Is the cabinet secretary able to provide any information on the estimated economic benefits to Inverclyde of the building of the new prison in addition to HMP Greenock’s being kept open? Can he assure the chamber that when contracts are being considered Inverclyde-based companies have the opportunity to tender to ensure that Inverclyde itself can gain the maximum economic benefit?

Kenny MacAskill

Absolutely. The member makes a fair point. In addition to benefits from the building of the new prison, there will be economic benefits from the continuing operation of HMP Greenock, which will retain around 180 employees with an annual wage bill of £5.2 million. HMP Greenock also incurs expenditure of circa £2.31 million on a range of goods, services and utilities. The construction of the new 300-cell prison in Inverclyde, which will cost in the region of £60 million, should create substantial economic benefits; after all, a large project of that nature requires many different skills and will create employment opportunities.

The public service contracts for HMP Inverclyde will be procured in accordance with the necessary European Union legislation to ensure that the facility is fit for purpose and provides value for money. That said, the Scottish Prison Service and the appointed construction contractor will liaise with Inverclyde Council on economic development issues and the opportunities that the project presents for local employment and for local businesses, to build on the current significant input by and contribution of HMP Greenock in relation to employment.

Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)

Aside from the construction of the new prison at Inverclyde, which is long overdue, and dealing with the situation at Cornton Vale, what other initiatives have been introduced as a result of the recommendations made by Elish Angiolini’s commission?

Kenny MacAskill

We are taking a variety of measures. As we cannot move immediately to HMP Inverclyde, work is on-going at Cornton Vale to ensure that it is fit for purpose, that various issues are addressed and that there is investment in mental health services and so on. In addition, the first allocations are being made from the reducing reoffending change fund to support mentoring programmes for women offenders across Scotland. That was one of the clear measures identified by Dame Elish Angiolini’s commission to help to address reoffending and to keep women on the straight and narrow once they are released. I give the member my full commitment that the outstanding work of the Angiolini commission is being delivered and that we are seeking to work towards delivering the outcomes that the commission thought necessary and on which we concur.


European Arrest Warrant (Timescales)



4. To ask the Scottish Government what the average timescale is in which a European arrest warrant issued in Scotland results in an arrest. (S4O-01439)

The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)

Analysis of the six arrests in the past 12 months in respect of European arrest warrants that were issued in Scotland shows that three suspects were arrested within hours or a matter of days. One of those cases involved an accusation of murder, and an arrest was made in five hours.

Arrests were made in a further two cases in four months and nine months respectively. The final case involved a period of six years and five months between the warrant being issued and an arrest being made.

Christina McKelvie

The cabinet secretary will be aware that the European arrest warrant has been used successfully in my area to return alleged perpetrators to face justice for very serious crimes. However, is he as worried as I am that the United Kingdom Government is not only putting that at risk by withdrawing from European arrest warrants, but putting Scotland at risk by withdrawing completely from Europe?

Kenny MacAskill

I totally agree. I disagree with the way in which the matter has been handled by the Home Secretary, and we have registered our objections. The decision was made without any intimation to us, at a time when Strathclyde Police was actively making it clear that it was seeking to arrest an individual or individuals in Spain in respect of a very serious crime that had taken place in Scotland. Such a decision would not be helpful in promoting the interests of justice in Scotland.


Sexual Exploitation of Children



5. To ask the Scottish Government what further measures it will take to prevent the sexual exploitation of children, to support its victims and bring the perpetrators to justice. (S4O-01440)

The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)

Essential work continues to be undertaken to ensure that that abhorrent form of child abuse is prevented and that the perpetrators are brought to justice.

We are refreshing the national guidance on child protection and have set up a working group to develop multi-agency local protocols on a number of child protection issues, including child sexual exploitation, for all parts of Scotland.

Following my recent visit to the child exploitation and online protection centre in London and the recent publication of the report “Exploring the scale and nature of child sexual exploitation in Scotland”, which the Scottish Government commissioned, officials will soon meet key stakeholders to discuss what further action needs to be taken.

Adam Ingram

The research that the cabinet secretary mentions indicates that there is a lack of robust evidence with regard to the numbers of children and young people who experience sexual exploitation in Scotland. We have, of course, all been scandalised by the disgraceful Savile affair and the failure by the BBC and others to reveal systematic child sexual abuse.

How will the Government ensure that all incidents of sexual exploitation are properly recorded and that data are properly collected so that we can build a more accurate picture of the nature and scale of the problem in Scotland for the future?

Kenny MacAskill

Adam Ingram makes a fair and valid point. As the report that I mentioned highlights, it is difficult to estimate the prevalence of child sexual exploitation in Scotland, just as it has been in the rest of the United Kingdom. The problem is not visible, and investigation is hindered by the differences in how the issue is defined, but action needs to be taken.

As the national child protection guidance has been reviewed, the collection of national child protection statistics will change from next year. That will lead to the publication of more robust statistics, including more detailed information on child exploitation and sexual abuse.

The Scottish Government will explore options to improve local data collection in Scotland on child sexual exploitation, which will potentially include working further with the University of Bedfordshire on piloting a data monitoring tool with a local authority in Scotland.

We will take the action that we think is appropriate and work with partner agencies, law enforcement, the Government south of the border and stakeholders in Scotland to ensure that children are protected. It would be fair to say that it is also the responsibility of each and every one of us to ensure that the children in our communities who are vulnerable are protected. Law enforcement will do its bit, but equally we must work together to protect the most vulnerable.

With the best will in the world—and I mean that—how can anyone truly support the long-term victims of child abuse and bring the perpetrators to justice when there continues to be a time bar in place for prosecution?

Kenny MacAskill

Rebuttals can be made, and such issues can be addressed. It is clear that we deal with civil matters and criminal matters differently. We are considering how to address those issues, and I assure Alex Fergusson that those who represent law enforcement will do their utmost in that regard.

As Cabinet Secretary for Justice, I am aware of the number of people who are now spending time in prison—rightly so—for historical offences. The offences may have been perpetrated many years ago, but those people took the innocence and childhood away from many innocent vulnerable people, and they will be punished.

In respect of other matters, it is appropriate that we seek to provide assurances, and those matters are being worked on by myself and governmental colleagues to ensure that we address the on-going problems faced by individuals who have suffered trauma. However, in light of the member’s interest, I am happy to discuss matters with him outside the chamber to give him confirmation as to what work is on-going.


European Union Membership (Legal Advice)

Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab)



6. To ask the Scottish Government on what date the “exceptional circumstances” arose that the Lord Advocate refers to in his letter to Ruth Davidson of 30 October 2012 relating to legal advice on an independent Scotland’s membership of the European Union. (S4O-01441)

The Lord Advocate (Frank Mulholland)

As the Deputy First Minister said in her statement on 23 October, following the Edinburgh agreement on 15 October ministers considered that the conditions existed to seek specific legal advice from the law officers on EU membership. That request was formally made to me on 23 October along with a request to disclose that fact. I gave my consent to the release of that information on 23 October, when the Deputy First Minister made her announcement to the Parliament.

Mark Griffin

I thank the Lord Advocate for that answer.

What was the legal barrier to allowing the Scottish Government to reveal to Parliament that no legal advice had been sought on continued EU membership, given that the agreement that he mentions has no legal basis and that no legislation has been passed in either Parliament? In legal terms, how did the signing of the agreement create the “exceptional circumstances” outlined in the letter to Ruth Davidson? Does the Lord Advocate agree that the three points stated in his letter to Ruth Davidson were valid on 4 March this year and that, on that basis, if asked, he would have been able to give the Scottish Government permission to disclose that no legal advice had been sought on continued membership of the EU?

The Lord Advocate

Let me deal first with whether the exceptional circumstances existed prior to consent being given on 23 October.

First, it is for ministers to judge the appropriate point at which to seek specific legal advice from the law officers. As a general principle, paragraph 2.31 of the ministerial code provides that law officers should be

“consulted in good time before the Government is committed to significant decisions involving legal considerations.”

The Deputy First Minister has explained to Parliament that the Edinburgh agreement, in laying out an agreed route to independence, provided the basis upon which specific legal advice could be sought. Further, up until that point, it was possible that the referendum could be the subject of court proceedings, with all the uncertainty that that entails. It was possible that the court would rule that this Parliament did not have the power to hold a referendum, in which case the issue would be academic. Following the signing of the Edinburgh agreement, there will be a lawful referendum, so that uncertainty has been removed. [Interruption.]

Order, please.

The Lord Advocate

The member may also want to look at a letter from the Attorney General of the United Kingdom Government, dated 22 January 2011, to the shadow leader of the House of Lords. The Attorney General referred to the fact that it should be for Government to determine how to use the law officer resource, which legal advisers to engage in a given situation and at what stage to employ them.

Further, the very important law officers convention allows legal advice to be given in private and to be given candidly because it is private. That allows Government the space in which to develop policy without that legal advice being made public. That very important convention is recognised by the UK Government. In fact, the UK Government successfully defended that convention in 2009. The convention applies in Scotland, it has applied since 1865 and it is enshrined in the ministerial code.


Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service (Priorities)



7. To ask the Scottish Government what the Lord Advocate’s priorities are for the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service for the next two years. (S4O-01442)

The Solicitor General (Lesley Thomson)

Both the Lord Advocate and I are clear that the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service plays a pivotal part in the delivery of justice in Scotland and we support the aims in the Scottish Government document “The Strategy for Justice in Scotland”. We have stated that our main priority for COPFS in relation to prosecutions and the investigation of deaths is to achieve operational effectiveness to ensure appropriate and proportionate action is taken in all cases.

However, we recognise that we must give priority to the most serious crimes, due to their nature and their impact on victims and communities. Therefore, the casework priorities for COPFS over the next two years include domestic abuse, hate crime, knife crime, serious and organised crime, the proceeds of crime, unresolved homicides, sexual crime and violent crime. As well as setting those priorities, we recognise the benefit of specialism and will continue that beyond the specialties that are already established in health and safety crime, serious and organised crime, wildlife crime and sexual crime. The public interest is at the heart of the decisions that we make and we take into account the needs of victims, witnesses and the communities that we serve.

Hanzala Malik

I thank the Solicitor General for a very detailed response.

Given that the Lord Advocate is likely to be asked his advice on a range of issues that relate to independence, how will balance be achieved in how the priorities will be met? For example, how do his comments to Ruth Davidson on 30 October—that the Government documents that state that an independent Scotland would continue to be a member of the European Union were “underpinned by legal advice”—tally with Nicola Sturgeon’s comments on 23 October that the Scottish Government had

“not sought specific legal advice”?—[Official Report, 23 October 2012; c 12408.]

The Solicitor General

Perhaps it would be helpful if I made it clear that the role of the law officers as legal advisers to the Scottish Government is entirely separate to the role of the law officers in the independent criminal prosecution service. In my first answer, I was indicating the priorities for the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service over the next two years.