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Chamber and committees

Plenary, 06 Dec 2001

Meeting date: Thursday, December 6, 2001


Contents


Question Time


SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE


Flooding

To ask the Scottish Executive, in view of any anticipated flooding, what preventive measures have been put in place in co-operation with local authorities and emergency services to protect life and property. (S1O-4221)

The Deputy Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Allan Wilson):

Implementation of the Flood Prevention and Land Drainage (Scotland) Act 1997 has resulted in many councils putting in place preventive measures of inspection, monitoring and maintenance. In addition, many councils are installing flood prevention schemes, with financial assistance from the Executive.

Details of measures that councils have taken are given in their statutory biennial reports on flooding. The provision of flood warnings and information on flood risk, through the Scottish Environment Protection Agency's recently launched Floodline service, will be a significant help to local authorities and emergency services. In conjunction with emergency services, local authorities have generic multi-agency response plans in place to help those who are affected by flooding.

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton:

Can the minister confirm that, with the onslaught of winter rains, immediate steps can be taken if and when emergencies arise? Flooding can be an extremely depressing and miserable experience for our constituents, especially when polluted water flows into their living rooms and residences.

Allan Wilson:

I concur with what the member has said about the havoc that flooding can wreak on people and communities. Local authorities have a primary responsibility in this area. I understand that City of Edinburgh Council has recently purchased reusable emergency flood barriers, which can be mobilised at a time of predicted flooding. Floodline is a proven system for co-ordinating emergency services' response, and it worked very well during last year's floods in England and Wales. An adequate warning goes hand in hand with the preparation of flood defences.

Sarah Boyack (Edinburgh Central) (Lab):

The minister will be aware of the devastating flooding that there has been in Edinburgh, in particular, over the past few years. He has talked about emergency responses. What plans does the Executive have to fast-track local authority proposals for long-term flood prevention schemes?

Allan Wilson:

The member makes a fair point. I recognise that the preparation period for schemes appears to be very lengthy. However, the construction of flood defences on private land requires careful planning and planning permission. The studies that are needed to identify the right option can take time. I would be happy to work with Sarah Boyack and other members on speeding up that process, to the advantage of all concerned.

I call Robin Green—I mean Robin Harper. [Laughter.] I apologise—the member's name came up on my screen as "Harper, Robin (Green)".

Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green):

Will the minister take a long-term holistic view on this issue? Will he consider the advice of WWF on targeted afforestation and the reinstatement of water meadows, and the advice of Forth Estuary Forum, which is meeting today at Victoria Quay, on managed retreat?

Allan Wilson:

We need to take a long-term approach to dealing with climate change and the flooding to which it can lead. Recently we published a Scottish climate change programme. A week on Monday, I am going to London to meet my Westminster counterpart so that we can co-ordinate as best we can the activities of Westminster and the Scottish Parliament on the impact of climate change.

Dorothy-Grace Elder (Glasgow) (SNP):

Does the minister agree that we should not only credit the police, fire and ambulance services for aid given during floods but acknowledge the absolute necessity of keeping up the strength of the Territorial Army, which has often helped to save Scotland from our oldest enemy, the weather? When he meets people at Westminster, will the minister impress upon them—and soon—the need to keep up the numbers in the TA? Will he impress upon them the anger of Scotland over savage cuts in the TA?

I think that that is a reserved matter.

Allan Wilson:

I did not think that my new responsibilities extended to the Territorial Army, but perhaps they do.

The Scottish Executive provides local authorities, police and fire brigades with specific grant for emergency planning purposes. Flooding is included among the risks for which we provide grant.

Question 2 has been withdrawn.


Ferry Services (Campbeltown-Ballycastle)

To ask the Scottish Executive when it next plans to meet the Scotland Office and the Northern Ireland Executive over plans to re-establish the Campbeltown-Ballycastle ferry service. (S1O-4254)

I shall be meeting the Scotland Office and Northern Ireland Office ministers tomorrow morning to discuss proposals for the reinstatement of the service.

Mr Hamilton:

I am grateful for that answer. Perhaps at tomorrow morning's meeting the minister will relay to the assembled company the profound concern of the people of Kintyre about the future of the ferry service. I draw her attention to three areas in particular.

First, is the minister aware that the Vestas wind turbine manufacturing plant cannot make any future investment decisions on job creation until there is an immediate resolution of this problem?

Secondly, is the minister aware that the destructive confusion over which of the Governments is responsible for the resumption of the ferry services is undermining people's efforts? Can she confirm that the responsibility for any subsidy that may be needed for the restoration of the service will come from the United Kingdom Government and not from the Scottish Executive, as happened with the Rosyth-Zeebrugge route?

Finally, will the minister give her interpretation of what George Foulkes meant yesterday in the House of Commons when he told Alan Reid, the Liberal Democrat member of Parliament for Argyll and Bute:

"If you do not get on the phone to Ross Finnie soon, you might not have a ferry?"

Is Mr Finnie the problem here? If not, will Ms Alexander commit the Executive to the restoration of that route?

Ms Alexander:

It is deeply depressing to hear a list member play politics with this issue. Ministers in the partnership Executive—and I stress that partnership within this Executive, and also the partnership with the UK Government, which is vital in addressing some of the issues that members have raised—fully appreciate the extent of public support in the area for the restoration of the ferry service. That is why we are not allowing the formal position of shipping services that do not begin and end in Scotland—that is, the fact that they are a reserved matter—to get in the way of our working with the UK Government to see whether it is possible to put together a value-for-money proposition that will meet the European obligations in this area. Those obligations are considerable if we are to provide subsidy to shipping services.

As recently as within the past 10 days, my officials visited Vestas to consider the additional business that might be associated with the reinstatement of the service. I think that members on all sides of the chamber are aware that the sort of subsidy that is under consideration will exceed, many times over, the average passenger subsidy that we make available to Caledonian MacBrayne services to fragile communities in other parts of Scotland. That is why it is important not simply to resolve issues to do with responsibility within the UK, but to ensure that European considerations have been fully taken into account in trying to put together a value-for-money proposition that will lead to the reinstatement of the service.

George Lyon (Argyll and Bute) (LD):

In the light of some of the remarks that have been made in another House, will the minister confirm that the coalition parties are united in their approach to the restarting of the Campbeltown-Ballycastle ferry service? Will she confirm that there has been progress and that discussions such as those that she has said will take place tomorrow will result in further progress? Can the minister give the people of Kintyre, who have been waiting for an answer for nearly two years, some indication of when we might find out whether the project will go ahead?

Ms Alexander:

I can offer reassurances on almost everything that the local member asked about. All members of the Executive work together on the issue. Collective responsibility in a partnership coalition means that such matters are the subject of united decisions. I confirm that unity and collective responsibility hold on the matter.

As I said, no meeting is more urgent than that to be held between the devolved Administrations and the UK Government tomorrow morning. I do not doubt the commitment of any of the three parties that are involved to making a case for the service to be reinstated.

The service was withdrawn because it could not be run economically. That event is partly responsible for the delay. We must be clear about the expected benefits, but the arrival of Vestas means that we can consider whether a more favourable economic case than last time round can be developed.


Hospital Services (Glasgow)

To ask the Scottish Executive what progress it is making towards improving hospital services in Glasgow. (S1O-4260)

The Minister for Health and Community Care (Malcolm Chisholm):

NHS Greater Glasgow is conducting a comprehensive review of acute hospital services throughout the city, which includes a period of public consultation. The Greater Glasgow NHS Board will consider proposals early next year.

On cancer services, I have appointed Dr Adam Bryson as director of the Beatson oncology centre, to drive forward improvements in cancer services for people in the west of Scotland.

Mr Macintosh:

I thank the minister for his reply. Notwithstanding my own concerns over the future of the Beatson, the minister will be aware of concern on the south side of Glasgow over progress on the hospital review and the uncertainty that that is causing, which affects morale and confidence in the Victoria infirmary. Will the minister assure me that the interests of patients will be given priority in deciding on the future options on the south side? In the meantime, will he ensure that investment is maintained, so that the Victoria infirmary can continue to serve the needs of local residents?

Malcolm Chisholm:

Acute services reviews are inherently controversial, but we should remember that their purpose is to ensure that people throughout Scotland have access to modern, high-quality services and that the balance between hospital and community services is correct. Sometimes, the issue concerns decisions of acute services reviews being pre-empted. Earlier this year, Susan Deacon ensured that beds were kept at Stobhill hospital until the results of the review were known. I am unaware of a similar situation at the Victoria infirmary, although I know that two-way movement between the Southern general and the Victoria infirmary has occurred. If Kenneth Macintosh writes to me about his concerns in detail, I will investigate them and reply to him.

In view of what I said yesterday on declining an emergency question on the Beatson oncology centre and the Minister for Health and Community Care's visit there, I will let supplementaries to this question run a little longer than normal.

John Scott (Ayr) (Con):

Given the Government's intention to implement the patient choice policy in England to allow waiting times to be cut, will the minister confirm that if the pressures on patient treatment at the Beatson become too great in the new year, when all the consultants leave, he will introduce a similar policy for cancer care in Scotland?

Malcolm Chisholm:

As members know, the Beatson centre takes people from a large part of Scotland. That is one issue that must be considered. I am not entirely sure in what direction John Scott's question went. His preamble introduced other topics.

We guarantee that services will be provided for the patients involved. Everything is being done to recruit extra oncologists, although on my visit to the Beatson yesterday, I realised that other issues and concerns had to be taken up. The main thinking behind the decision that has been made today is that to drive forward the action plan, we must have a specific management focus on the Beatson. That is why Dr Adam Bryson was appointed. He has a sound management record, and, perhaps more important, experience as medical director of the Western infirmary, and good links with the clinicians there.

Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP):

I welcome the removal of the Beatson from North Glasgow University Hospitals NHS Trust's mismanagement. I hope that the minister will undertake to conduct a more wide-ranging review of the remit, responsibilities and management of that trust. Does he agree that it is vital that Adam Bryson takes urgent action in the next few days to stabilise the situation at the Beatson?

Is the minister aware that at least one more consultant at the Beatson is actively considering resignation, as that consultant has been offered an alternative post? Will the minister tell the chamber what action will be taken to prevent further resignations? Is he aware that, as of January next year, south Glasgow will have no lung cancer, breast cancer or gynaecological cancer clinics? That does not sit easily with the statement that he has just made about protecting services for people in Glasgow. Will he—

The member is not making a statement. She has had—

Will the minister give details of what action will be taken to protect the level of services for patients who are suffering from cancer? Those patients live in the part of Scotland that has the highest cancer rates in the whole of Europe.

Malcolm Chisholm:

Nicola Sturgeon knows that Greater Glasgow NHS Board and the Scottish Executive are undertaking a review of the acute trust. Nicola Sturgeon has criticised personalities. I am not interested in that. I am interested in fixing problems. Today, we have begun to do that in a new kind of way.

I am as concerned as Nicola Sturgeon is about the position of the consultants. Dr Adam Bryson said today that his first priority is to talk to the consultants and to ensure that nobody else leaves. Given the shortage of oncologists throughout the United Kingdom, that is the most intractable part of the issue. I assure Nicola Sturgeon that everything is being done in this country and further afield to recruit oncologists.

I am also very aware of the issue of clinics. As a result of the pending vacancies, some short-term changes have been made to clinics. In the longer term, as part of the reorganisation of cancer services, we propose to examine the clinics. I was pleased to be able to say yesterday that, this month, I want to see an outline business case for the new Beatson.

Brian Fitzpatrick (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (Lab):

The minister may recognise the rank hypocrisy of a party that takes an interest in the issue when its sole ambition was to destroy the national health service. He may also recognise the rank hypocrisy of another party when its only interest is to take Scotland out of Britain.

Does the minister recognise the concerns of the constituency members of the Scottish Parliament whose constituents are served by cancer services in the west of Scotland? I welcome the announcement that he has made. Will he urge prompt short-term action to secure locum consultants for cancer services in the west of Scotland? Will he ensure that there are no structural barriers to the recruitment of the substantive consultant posts that arise from the largest ever investment in the national health service in Scotland that was courtesy of a Labour Government?

Malcolm Chisholm:

Brian Fitzpatrick's point at the end about investment was well made. Many issues are at stake. Investment is one of them. More is coming and we want more. However, we should recognise that money alone is not going to solve the problem. People talk about vacancies, but six of the vacancies are in six new posts that were created by additional investment put up by the Executive in the past few months. We have to look at the full picture

It is clear that, in the short term, recruiting the consultants is fundamental. From talking at great length to staff yesterday, I am aware that there are other issues, including staffing issues, in addition to that of the oncologist vacancies. I expect the new director to start right away to address the short-term concerns about staffing and facilities. Those concerns have to be addressed now. At the same time, we can look forward to the superb new facility that will be built before too long.

Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (SSP):

I wrote to the minister's predecessor about a 69-year-old pensioner constituent who received a letter from South Glasgow University Hospitals NHS Trust informing her that there would be a wait of seven to eight months for a serious ultrasound examination. Does the minister agree that it is completely and utterly unacceptable to have to wait so long for such an important examination?

The pensioner contacted the private Ross Hall hospital and was told that the examination would cost £183 and take two days. Is it not about time that, instead of working with the private health service, we take over the private health sector? That would give a decent service to all our citizens, not one that is based on how much money they have.

Malcolm Chisholm:

Quite a few points are raised by that question. I agree with the first point that Tommy Sheridan made about waiting times. Clearly, dealing with delays in the system—and in particular with waiting times for that kind of procedure—is at the top of our list of health priorities. Delays are unacceptable. A consultant I was talking to yesterday described that problem and said, "If you put ‘Urgent' on it, it would be a lot quicker." However, we cannot put "Urgent" on everything. That is partly to do with equipment, and there are plans afoot to expand the number of linear accelerators. We have some in the new Beatson, but more are to come. However, that means more radiographers, which is another staffing issue. We are well aware of that and action is being taken.

The second part of Mr Sheridan's question moved into a more complex area—I am sure that that will come up later as well. We have to keep a sense of perspective about when the private sector is useful. Last night, a general practitioner in another part of Scotland said to me that someone who came to him with a breast lump was told by the private hospital where she was insured that she could be seen on 20 December. The Western general hospital in Edinburgh said that she could be seen on 11 December. Let us remember the good stories as well as the bad ones.

Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):

Is it the case that the proposals to unify health boards and trusts is resulting in decisions being made further from the patients? Has that contributed to the problems at the Beatson? Is the minister concerned to hear today that some cancer patients in Glasgow have had their appointments delayed by six months?

Malcolm Chisholm:

I am always concerned to hear about patients having their appointments delayed. I do not know the specific example to which the member refers, but I have already indicated that many waiting times are unacceptable.

The first part of the question was quite complex. Many of us who experienced the internal market over the period that Mary Scanlon's party was in power did not feel that it was bringing decisions closer to patients. On the management of the Beatson and the particular problems of the Beatson, our view was that there was perhaps an issue to do with the size of the trust. We thought it right to deal with the problems by focusing specifically on certain issues. That is the best way forward for the Beatson at this time. The general point that the member made was perhaps not true when considered in detail.


Angus Council (Meetings)

To ask the Scottish Executive what plans it has to meet representatives of Angus Council as part of the review of Scotland's cities. (S1O-4234)

As part of the cities review process Peter Peacock intends to meet representatives from Angus Council. He will write to the council leader to set up a meeting.

Alex Johnstone:

I thank the minister for that answer. Given the fact that the remit of the cities review includes the requirement to take account of the interaction between cities, their surrounding areas and the rest of Scotland, will he give a guarantee that he will meet Perth and Kinross Council and other councils that will be impacted upon by any changes in city boundaries?

Iain Gray:

There were two sides to that question. The cities review is not primarily about considering local authority boundaries. It is a listening exercise, and if issues about boundaries are raised, we will listen to them. However, the substantive question from Mr Johnstone was whether we will meet neighbouring authorities. The answer to that is yes, the authorities surrounding cities will be invited to meet ministers. The cities review is intended to consider the relationship between cities and their surrounding regions.

Mr Andrew Welsh (Angus) (SNP):

Given that the Executive met Aberdeenshire Council and other adjacent councils about their cities, why was Angus Council specifically excluded from the Dundee meeting? Will the minister state clearly that the cities review is not a front for future boundary changes? If it is, I can guarantee a massive opposition from the people of Monifieth, Invergowrie, Longforgan and other areas adjacent to Dundee.

Iain Gray:

The remit of the cities review is before me. It is quite clear:

"To review the current prospects for the economic, environmental and social development of our five cities; and to identify Executive policies which will improve those prospects, taking account of interactions between the cities, their surrounding areas and the rest of Scotland."

It is not a front for a review of local authority boundaries. To my knowledge, Angus Council was not singled out for exclusion. As I have already explained to Mr Johnstone, we are in the process of arranging a meeting between Mr Peacock and representatives of Angus Council in the near future.

Mr John McAllion (Dundee East) (Lab):

When the minister meets representatives of Angus Council, will he take the opportunity to remind them that the present boundaries and council tax base were gifted to them by Tory gerrymandering at the time of local government reorganisation? Will he also stress in the clearest possible way that any just review of our cities must begin from the basis of the restoration to wronged cities such as Dundee of the natural boundaries that were stolen from them by Lord James Douglas-Hamilton and his cronies back in 1995?

Iain Gray:

The cities review is in its first phase, which is a listening phase. Some of the issues that Mr McAllion has referred to were raised and discussed on the Dundee day visit, but perhaps not in quite such trenchant terms as he has used—no surprises there. I have already made it clear that the cities review is not primarily about local authority boundaries. It is about listening to the issues facing our cities, and we will listen to the issues, whatever they are, that face Dundee or any of the other five cities.


Consumer Advice (Refrigerators)

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it intends to issue similar advice to consumers to that issued by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs on 23 November 2001 regarding purchasing of new refrigerators. (S1O-4233)

The Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Ross Finnie):

The Executive's web page on substances that deplete the ozone layer contains a link to the DEFRA website. It is merely about the disposal of discarded domestic fridges and freezers. The Executive has also informed local authorities and other interested parties of the new rules governing the disposal of those appliances. We are aware that there will be increased costs to local authorities this year as a result. The Executive will provide additional funding to authorities for the remainder of this financial year, and I will announce the allocations once firmer costs can be identified.

John Scott:

The minister will be aware that DEFRA's advice is that consumers should not purchase new fridges at the moment. Given the Executive's inaction on the matter, I welcome the minister's statement. However, as 5,000 fridges will have to be stored in South Ayrshire alone, will he give an undertaking that that will not adversely affect council taxpayers? Will the support that he will give to councils cover the cost of storage?

Ross Finnie:

I want to assure Mr Scott that the web page link does not link to any advice about not buying fridges. There are many things that I am responsible for, but I am certainly not responsible for utterances by DEFRA on whether people should buy a fridge. The website advice is about how people should dispose of their fridges, given the new regulations.

On Mr Scott's second point, we are consulting local authorities so that we are absolutely clear about the number of fridges that will have to be stored until proper routes are available for their disposal in accordance with the new regulation. That is why we will be making some financial assistance available to authorities in this financial year to help with that process. As I said, the precise amount will be determined when firmer costs have been identified in conjunction with the local authorities.

Alasdair Morgan (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale) (SNP):

The minister referred to assistance to local authorities in this financial year. Can he confirm whether the settlement that was announced earlier today for future financial assistance to local authorities covers that issue? If not, will the settlement be changed to cover it, or will there be yet another pressure on the council tax?

Ross Finnie:

Let me make it absolutely clear. I am announcing assistance this year because of the specific difficulties that will arise because of the implementation of a regulation on removing the foam in fridges. It will not be the cost of disposal that will be the issue, but the cost of storage. That is an additional burden. The Executive recognises that, and that is why I am making additional money available in this financial year.


School Building Programme

To ask the Scottish Executive what progress is being made with its school building programme. (S1O-4248)

The Minister for Education and Young People (Cathy Jamieson):

School building programmes are the responsibility of the local authorities. However, following Jack McConnell's meeting with council leaders on 31 October, we are establishing with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities a group to deliver a long-term school building investment strategy.

Mr McNeil:

I presume that the minister will be unable to comment on Inverclyde Council's plans to build six new schools and fully refurbish 26 others. However, does she accept that those plans are in the public domain and are of great interest to the parents and pupils of Greenock and Inverclyde? In the interim, what guidance will be issued to ensure that the parents and pupils who will be affected by the plan are fully informed, consulted and involved at every stage?

Cathy Jamieson:

The member will be aware that a number of local authorities are preparing bids. Those bids will be received on 14 December and work will then be done to assess them. I recognise that, in authorities that are considering proposals, parents and children have concerns about what will happen. I am confident that local authorities will undertake appropriate consultation in local communities to ensure that school building programmes best meet the needs of our children. We must be aware that some school buildings are simply not what we require for the future to give our children the best chance in life.

Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):

The minister is aware that additional resources funding to schools is precisely that. Directors of education and finance must clearly certify that such funds for school building repairs, for example, are additional to planned expenditure. Will the minister therefore investigate the actions of Scottish Borders Council, which received a £416,000 award in December 2000 and cut £350,000 from its education budget within a month? Any arithmetician will know that that left only £66,000 additional funding for schools. Will the minister scrutinise that creative accounting? I see Mr McConnell leaning forward to Cathy Jamieson.

Cathy Jamieson:

I thank the member for doing the arithmetic for me and not testing the numeracy of the Minister for Education and Young People. I am aware of the Scottish Borders Council situation and have asked for a report from officials on the process. I am aware that a lot of work is being done to try to resolve those problems. Again, I state that my primary concern is to ensure that all Scotland's children get the education that we want. I want gaps to be closed. I will keep a close eye on the matter and discuss it with my colleagues in finance.

David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con):

Is the minister aware that, ahead of Dumfries and Galloway Council's proposed bid for funding, a consultant's report was prepared, which suggested the possible closure of 39 primary schools? Does she agree that, although improvement and new building of primary schools is vital, it should not be at the cost of a wholesale closure of rural schools?

Cathy Jamieson:

I indicated that it is for local authorities to bring forward proposals to meet the local needs of their constituents and children. I am aware of the proposals in Dumfries and Galloway and recognise that there are issues relating to rural schools. A number of local authorities are grappling with difficult situations. However, I remind the member that, before school closures take place, statutory issues must be dealt with and consultation must take place. Again, I am confident that the local authority will put the appropriate measures in place.

Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD):

Does the minister agree that the top priority must be the removal of temporary classrooms that are freezing in winter and boiling hot in summer? Bell Baxter High School in Cupar has almost 50 such classrooms in its playground, some of which go back to the early 1950s. If we can build a new Parliament building for ourselves at £250 million, I am sure that we can house our pupils better than we currently are.

Cathy Jamieson:

I share the member's concern about the condition of school buildings. I am aware that the member extended an invitation to the previous minister responsible for education and subsequently to me to come and see some work that has been done locally and to pick up on what may be done in the future.

For the Official Report, I want to say that it is simply not acceptable in the 21st century that children's education should suffer because of inappropriate buildings. All members want the problem to be tackled and we must find ways to proceed jointly. The Executive must work jointly with COSLA, the local authorities and local communities.


Public-Private Partnership Projects<br />(Inverclyde Council)

To ask the Scottish Executive what plans it has to develop public-private partnership projects with Inverclyde Council. (S1O-4264)

The development of public-private partnership projects by Inverclyde Council is a matter for that council.

Mr Quinan:

Is the minister aware of Inverclyde Council's plans to close 15 primary schools, one secondary school and one special needs school and replace them with an as yet unannounced number of buildings—possibly six? That has been opposed by Unison and the Liberal Democrats. Does he agree that borrowing and spending capital of £100 million only to pay back £212 million over 30 years is, frankly, not good business?

Mr Kerr:

Mr Quinan's analysis does not compare like with like because the issue is about providing a full service as opposed to a building. Therefore, his analysis is incorrect. Is he aware of the independent market research survey that shows that 83 per cent of the population of Inverclyde find the use of alternative sources of funding for school buildings either acceptable or very acceptable? In response to the question whether it is acceptable for alternative sources of funding to include private finance, the figure rises to 91 per cent. Mr Quinan puts ideology before schoolchildren.

Mr Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab):

It does not surprise me that the minister knows more about the views of Inverclyde people than Lloyd Quinan does. Is the minister aware that the research to which he referred also found that 90 per cent of school board chairs in Inverclyde agreed that improving school conditions and the state of repairs in schools is important?

Mr Kerr:

New money can be attracted through public-private partnerships. Ten per cent of our capital budget goes on those programmes to provide new hospitals, schools, water infrastructure and many other much-needed projects that provide greater services for people. That is what the Executive is about.


Anti-terrorism Legislation

To ask the Scottish Executive what discussions it has had with Her Majesty's Government about the role of the Scottish police forces in the implementation of the forthcoming anti-terrorism legislation. (S1O-4231)

The Executive has discussed a range of matters relevant to the Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Bill with Her Majesty's Government, including issues concerning the Scottish police service.

Trish Godman:

We all want terrorism to be defeated and terrorist activities in Scotland to be dealt with swiftly and comprehensively by the police and the security forces. However, the legislation will mean detention without trial. In the first instance, we need assurances about civil liberties. Is the minister satisfied that our police forces have the support—financial or otherwise—that they need to tackle any spread of terrorism in Scotland? Who has executive responsibility for our police forces in this matter, the minister or the Home Secretary?

Mr Wallace:

I hear what Trish Godman says about the bill. As she will know, the detention measures are reserved to the United Kingdom Government and are not the responsibility of the Scottish Executive. We have made extra resources available to the police in relation to the circumstances that have followed from 11 September. For instance, £1 million has been allocated to help to promote security around places of worship, particularly for the Muslim community.

As Trish Godman knows, responsibility for the police is a tripartite arrangement between Scottish ministers—I am the minister with that responsibility—local police authorities and chief constables. The bill will change nothing in that important constitutional arrangement.

Dennis Canavan (Falkirk West):

In view of the need to avoid counterproductive anti-terrorist measures, will the Executive reject demands for the use of baton guns by the police? In Northern Ireland, 17 people have been killed by plastic or rubber bullets and hundreds more have been injured, including innocent children. Will he assure us that such lethal weapons will never be used in Scotland unless and until such matters are fully debated and approved by the Parliament?

Mr Wallace:

I advise Mr Canavan that the subject that he has raised does not come under the legislation that was the subject of the original question. However, I understand his concerns and assure him that we would wish to take no steps without proper consideration of all the implications of any such move.


Children (Diet)

To ask the Scottish Executive what action it is taking to improve the nutritional content of the diets of children from disadvantaged communities. (S1O-4250)

The Deputy Minister for Health and Community Care (Mrs Mary Mulligan):

The Scottish diet action plan "Eating for Health" provides the framework for improving children's diet. Building on that, the health improvement fund prioritises support to improve children's diet according to local needs and the Scottish community diet project works specifically with low-income communities.

Janis Hughes:

Does the minister agree that one of the most important initiatives that has improved nutritional standards in schools and helped disadvantaged communities has been the advent of breakfast clubs, similar to the one in Cathkin High School in my constituency? That club led to a 4 per cent reduction in absence during its first year. Will she assure me that the Executive will continue to encourage and support that important initiative?

Mrs Mulligan:

I am sure that the member will be aware that the Executive launched a breakfast services challenge fund, to which £250,000 was allocated. We hope to encourage more breakfast clubs through that fund. In the meantime, there will be a review of such breakfast provision, which differs in different places throughout Scotland. We need to find the best way of delivering those breakfast clubs. I am sure that we would all agree that breakfast clubs are one way of assisting children in those lower-income households that need assistance.