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The next item of business is a statement from John Swinney on Scotland’s commitment to international development. The First Minister will take questions at the end of his statement, so there should be no interventions or interruptions.
14:24
Last week, I returned from a visit to Zambia and Malawi to see some of the projects and partnerships that are supported by the Scottish Government’s international development programme. This was the first ever visit by a First Minister of Scotland to Zambia, and the first by a First Minister to Malawi since 2005.
Of course, Scotland has a close relationship with both countries that has been built over the past 150 years. Therefore, it was important to me to witness those relationships at first hand and to further strengthen them in person, by hearing directly from the people in those countries about the challenges that they face, their aspirations and their goals for our on-going partnership.
The partnerships were initially built through the outreach of institutions such as Scotland’s churches, but, today, they are threaded through every facet of our communities, institutions and Governments. Although they have evolved over time, the strength and depth of those ties have never wavered. I saw that for myself during my visit. I experienced the warmest of welcomes in Zambia and Malawi, and the reassurance that these remain close, innovative and forward-looking relationships, with great potential for future growth.
My visit coincided with the 20th anniversary of the signing of the original co-operation agreement between the Governments of Scotland and Malawi. From that important moment in 2005, we have grown Scotland’s international development footprint and its contribution to global solidarity to the shape and level that we all see today.
Our international development and humanitarian crisis funding reached nearly £13 million this financial year, and we stand by our commitment to increase it to £16 million per annum by the end of this parliamentary session. In addition to Malawi, our international development work now includes partnerships with Zambia, Rwanda and Pakistan. Our support to international communities comes not only through our international development fund, but through our climate justice fund and funding to respond to global humanitarian crises, with a total commitment of roughly £25 million.
Like every other member in the chamber, I know full well that we are in the midst of the most challenging fiscal situation since devolution, and that times are tough for households and businesses across Scotland. My focus on resolving those pressures, within the powers of this Government, is unwavering. However, it is possible—indeed, necessary and right—for Scotland to play her part in the global issues and global challenge that we face. Failure to do so would simply worsen the conditions and inequalities that fuel conflict, deprivation and injustice throughout the world.
Scotland is showing leadership and is offering sustained funding. We Scots are—and will continue to be—good global citizens, and I am proud to serve a country that values its commitments to the world’s most vulnerable.
Many people in the global south live in extreme poverty, and the challenge to their survival is made ever greater by the devastating—and increasing—impacts of climate change, which they, largely, have not caused.
I saw that during my visit. Malawi, the seventh poorest country in the world, is experiencing simultaneous economic and climate crises. In my time there, I met people who are contending with high inflation, the servicing of devastating levels of debt and crippling food insecurity. At the same time, they are enduring the climatic shocks of alternating drought and flooding from tropical storms and cyclones.
However, I also saw the difference that our interventions are making. In both Zambia and Malawi, I saw that our projects, commitment and investment are improving lives. They are working in health, inclusive education, equalities, renewable energy and climate justice. They are rooted in those close relationships between countries and institutions, where they are finding shared solutions and supporting shared goals.
The new Scottish Government-funded Blantyre-Blantyre research laboratories in Malawi and Zambia are a powerful testament to that. Three universities—in Glasgow, Blantyre and Lusaka—are working together to conduct research into non-communicable diseases. Through that shared commitment to collaborative research, they are improving healthcare for all.
At Kamuzu University of Health Sciences in Blantyre, I met Malawi’s first ever cohort of home-grown dentists, whose T-shirts proudly proclaimed them “Locally relevant, globally competent.”
In Zambia, I saw the paediatric operating room installed by Dundee-based Kids Operating Room—I had previously visited its sister operating theatre in Dundee. That health partnership will significantly improve access to safe surgery for thousands of children in Zambia.
I am equally proud of our efforts in Malawi and Zambia to secure equitable access to education for disabled learners and girls. In Malawi, I was able to meet teachers from Balaka secondary school, where we are funding scholarships for girls, as well as critical wraparound services, such as mentorship and career guidance. In Zambia, I met partners and grantees from our women and girls fund, which is a key programme for advancing gender equality and the rights of women and girls. At that meeting, I was able to hear directly from them about the challenges that they face and their determination to tackle gender inequality and gender-based violence in their society.
Our women and girls fund is designed to work at a grass-roots level. That means that we work in partnership alongside groups and communities, and that we learn from them as they advocate on the issues that so directly affect them.
It is the same with our climate just communities programme. On my visit, I met people in Chimbalanga village in Zomba, Malawi, who are taking control of their lives and livelihoods with support from our climate justice fund. That has only strengthened my resolve to ensure that the value of and the vital need for community-led climate finance programmes such as ours are heard loud and clear at the 30th United Nations climate change conference of the parties—COP30—in Brazil and in climate negotiations far beyond that. I am determined that Scotland will continue to support climate justice action in the global south.
Borrowing can be a vital tool for economic growth and development, but when borrowing grows too much or too quickly, it becomes problematic. That is happening across developing countries, where total public debt reached a record $29 trillion in 2023. In 2020, Zambia became the first African country to default on its debt, and the International Monetary Fund recently reported that, in 2024, Malawi’s overall public debt to gross domestic product ratio was around 79 per cent. Across the global south, unsustainable debt repayments are consuming resources that should be used to build schools, hospitals and climate-resilient infrastructure, and to create progress and opportunity.
Climate change is exacerbating the problem. The global south should not be forced to choose between repaying its creditors and helping its communities to recover from storms and droughts. Scotland has consistently advocated for other countries to follow our example of giving funding for loss and damage as grants—not loans—so that countries can recover from extreme climate events without taking on additional debt.
However, there is also a need to look at the structural issues that entrench cycles of debt and dependence. Prior to my visit, I met with the Scottish Catholic International Aid Fund, Christian Aid Scotland and Humza Yousaf MSP to discuss the jubilee debt campaign. That campaign calls for a fairer approach to resolving global debt crises and proposes solutions at a national and international level.
In the face of global debt injustice, I am convinced that Scotland must continue to lead with compassion and conviction. We can and we will continue to use our voice to speak out against injustice. Therefore, I announce to the Parliament our support for the cancel debt, choose hope campaign. I raise my voice, my Government’s voice and Scotland’s voice in support of finding a fair, long-term solution to the global debt crisis.
I have spoken today about our development assistance programmes, through which we provide financial assistance to Malawi and Zambia. Those must be sustained, but we must also find ways to nurture greater economic activity and growth in the global south to foster greater economic freedom.
During my visit, I heard about the determination of Malawi and Zambia to move from aid relationships with the global north to relationships that are based on increased trade and investment. In Blantyre, I met with partners in our Malawi investment initiative, including the NBM Development Bank and the St Andrew macadamia farm. At that meeting—and in a subsequent meeting with Malawi’s President, Peter Mutharika—I offered to use my Government’s convening power to host discussions on boosting investment in developing countries. That is a crucial ingredient for encouraging greater economic activity and growth in the global south.
Some 20 years on from the start of our international development programme, my Government reaffirms its commitment to this work. We remember the relationships that were forged 150 years ago and we are proud of all the good that has come from them. We will continue to grow and deepen those relationships and to evolve them to meet the emerging challenges of our time.
There is, of course, still work to do, but we are committed to doing it. We will continue to work together in partnership to make a positive difference abroad and here at home. We will continue to be good global citizens. Scotland, as she always has, will continue to play her part.
The First Minister will now take questions on the issues raised in his statement. I intend to allow around 20 minutes for questions, after which we will move on to the next item of business. I would be grateful if members who wish to put a question were to press their request-to-speak button.
John Swinney wants us to believe that his motives are sincere, but I question why he thinks that foreign affairs should be his focus. There are so many challenges here in Scotland. Those should be his focus.
One in six Scots is on national health service waiting lists. On his final day of his trip to Africa, the Scottish Government revealed that half of all Scottish adults are now living with at least one long-term health condition. Scotland is suffering a dental crisis, but John Swinney uses taxpayers’ money to train dentists overseas. He uses taxpayers’ money to help other countries address climate change while missing almost every domestic climate change target. Furthermore, Scotland’s economy is stagnant, with too few opportunities for young people, and our school system has lost its international reputation for excellence.
Why is the First Minister not focused on those issues here in Scotland? Foreign affairs are not his remit; they are reserved. He keeps saying that we must be “good global citizens” and that Scotland should play its part, but we do. As part of the United Kingdom, we have a long and proud record of helping those in need. Is it not about time that the First Minister focused on the many serious issues here in Scotland?
Let me assure Russell Findlay that I am very focused on the issues and challenges that face the people of Scotland. As a result of that, and as he will have seen from the news this morning, there is data demonstrating that waiting lists are falling and that the number of procedures that are being undertaken in our health service is increasing. Our young people have just delivered a very strong level of performance in the examination system—performance that is back to pre-Covid levels—and we are taking steps to ensure that our public services meet the needs and expectations of people in Scotland. We have also been focused on economic growth in Scotland, as I was last night, when I discussed a variety of ideas with the Scottish technology council to that end.
I will absolutely be held to account for my focus on domestic issues. I will be answering questions again here on Thursday on the basis of my responsibilities, but I am also very happy to be here today to explain to Parliament the Government’s commitment to making sure that Scotland fulfils our obligation as a good global citizen. That is because the issues that will affect Scotland will be affected by what is happening in the global south. It is unavoidable. The climate crisis in the global south will have an effect on us here in Scotland, and the issues that we are wrestling with in health programmes in the global south will have a resonance here in Scotland.
One thing that I am very proud of is to lead a country that is outward looking and focused on working with others, and that is what my Government will do.
I welcome the First Minister’s statement, his report back from his trip and his commitment to international development. It is important to recognise that that follows in the footsteps of Jack McConnell and, of course, Gordon Brown, who set up the Department for International Development and led efforts to cancel debt long before the First Minister stepped foot in Africa last week.
It is clear that, when organisations work together, we achieve much more than when they work alone. Whatever amount we spend on international development, even with a record funding settlement from the UK Government, it is crucial for public support that we maximise impact for Scottish taxpayers as well as for those in developing countries. On maximising impact, how will the Scottish Government work with the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office? How will Scotland-based aid charities be prioritised with regard to funding support? Will the Government’s support match funding models proposed by organisations such as SCIAF? What will the Scottish Government do to ensure that no international companies make any private profit from any Scottish taxpayers’ money?
First, I make it clear, as I have made clear in all of my public communication about these issues, that I warmly welcome the foundations of the Scottish Government’s international development programme, which took place under the leadership of my predecessor Jack McConnell. That initiative attracted cross-party support 20 years ago. I am not so sure that such cross-party support exists today, but I certainly assure Mr Bibby of the support of the Scottish Government and the Scottish National Party in that endeavour. I think that the need for our intervention today is even greater than it was in 2005.
In relation to the maximisation of impact and how we will work with the FCDO, I had every support from the high commission in Lusaka and the high commission in Lilongwe, in Malawi, for the visits that I undertook. I put on record my appreciation for the support of the FCDO in that respect.
In relation to Scottish charities, we work with a range of different charitable organisations. Our programmes are refreshed from year to year as we establish how we can maximise their impact. Some Scottish charities are supported in some years and others are supported in other years.
The focus of all our programmes is on making an impact at grass-roots level. That thinking has been brought into our international development programmes, and it serves us well as a means of understanding how the investments that we make can change lives.
As convener of the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee, I often hear about how Scotland works collaboratively with international partners, the lessons that Scotland gains from those partnerships and the ways in which those relationships are mutually beneficial.
I highlight a project that involved mapping wells in Malawi. It came at a modest funding cost to Scotland, but after the 2019 floods, it came into its own when it served as a mechanism for protecting communities from the effects of waterborne disease following the disaster.
Does the First Minister agree that continuing that support is the right thing to do, and that saving lives is priceless?
I saw at first hand some of the examples of how lives had literally been saved by the programmes that the Scottish Government is involved in. I saw a water supply programme in the Zomba area of Malawi where the application of technology has created the ability to get clean water supplies to the population and to support irrigation projects that are sustaining lives in those communities. It was not lost on me, and a number of our development partners commented to me, that our projects and our investments are literally saving lives in those communities. The people of Scotland should be proud of the efforts that have been undertaken to support those who are much less fortunate than we are today.
In the same week that the First Minister was in Africa committing devolved taxpayers’ revenues to countries including Pakistan, Zambia and Rwanda, closer to home, SNP-run Dumfries and Galloway Council was consulting on cuts that include closing leisure centres, scrapping music tuition fees for poorer children and cancelling all funding to citizens advice bureaux.
Given that the First Minister’s first duty is to the citizens of this country and that he is acutely aware that foreign affairs and international aid are reserved, will John Swinney now stop pretending to be the president of an independent state and instead show solidarity with our own communities by fixing the problems that his Government has created over the past 19 years?
Thank you, Mr Hoy. As you will be aware, the questions should be put on issues that have been raised in the statement. I am not wholly convinced that that is the case with that question.
I call Clare Haughey, to be followed by Sarah Boyack.
I was delighted to see the First Minister visit Malawi this month. As he will be aware, my constituency has strong ties to that country through Blantyre in South Lanarkshire being the birthplace of David Livingstone.
Can the First Minister provide more details on the partnership between Malawi and Scotland through the Blantyre-Blantyre programme—which I understand the Scottish Government supports financially—particularly in relation to how the project can positively benefit our two countries?
I saw at first hand the investment that has been made in the Blantyre-Blantyre clinical research project, which originated as a partnership between the University of Glasgow and the Kamuzu University of Health Sciences in Blantyre, Malawi. The University of Zambia in Lusaka has been added to the project—I saw the new laboratory there—which enables this to be a three-country research programme that looks at non-communicable diseases as well as vaccine efficacy, particularly in relation to vaccination for cholera and Covid.
That work enables us and those universities in Africa to participate as equals in a multinational network of exchange on research issues, making it possible to undertake a more sophisticated research process. That is a combination that leads to collective enhancement of human health.
I pay tribute to the leadership of the University of Glasgow, which has given tremendous commitment to the venture over a number of years. It is enhancing human health, and we should be very proud of the exchanges that have taken place. Of course, it reinforces the connection that Clare Haughey referred to, between Blantyre, the birthplace of David Livingstone, and the projects that are taken forward, which are deeply appreciated by the people of Malawi.
The Parliament’s cross-party group on international development had positive feedback about the transformative impact that the Scottish Government’s international development fund delivers on issues such as employment and education for women and climate-resilient food production. However, our report recommended that the Government should provide greater clarity and transparency on such funding, to improve accountability so that we can monitor its impact and the benefits for local communities. Will the Scottish Government now do that?
I am very supportive of such an approach, because it is important that public confidence about the effectiveness of the programmes is maximised. The suggestion that Sarah Boyack puts to me is strong. Twenty years ago, when the international development work was enabled by Jack McConnell’s Government, I felt that it was essential, because it established the partnership and connection between us and other countries and it enabled us to learn from each other and assist others who face acute challenges. In the intervening years, the climate challenge has become ever more threatening to communities in Zambia and Malawi.
I am very happy to explore those issues. I will ask the Cabinet Secretary for Constitution, External Affairs and Culture, Angus Robertson, to explore them in more detail and to take forward the helpful suggestions that have been made.
The UK is delivering less than half of the United Nations target for international development. Will the First Minister describe the further evidence, which he heard about on his recent trip, of the damage that has been caused by wider cuts to international aid budgets?
Answer with regard to issues raised in the statement, First Minister.
An important aspect that is at the heart of my statement is about the need for us to provide constant support to the global south. If we do not do that, the issues that affect those regions will have ever more acute impacts on us, and we will have to manage the implications. In today’s exchanges it has been suggested that we can somehow just ignore all those issues and that they have nothing to do with us. My opinion could not be more different: those issues have everything to do with us, and we should deploy the support that we can within the agreements that are reached in Parliament to support the programmes to ensure that Scotland can fulfil our international obligations.
To be meaningful, international development must be rooted in climate justice, as I think that the First Minister recognises. One key ask from Scotland’s International Development Alliance is for the Scottish Government to endorse a fossil fuel non-proliferation treaty. By doing so, it would be joining 143 city, local and subnational governments around the world, including Glasgow and Edinburgh city councils. Will the First Minister add Scotland’s national voice to that growing global call for such a treaty by formally endorsing it?
Patrick Harvie correctly identifies the impact of climate change as an exacerbation of the challenges that the global south already faces. It was evident to me that for people who are already having to deal with acute and desperate levels of poverty, climate change adds another level of threat. I recognise that connection, and that is also why the Scottish Government’s programmes are focused in the way that they are. I will consider the point that the member has raised about the treaty.
The First Minister likes to preach about gender equality and the rights of women and girls when he is abroad. However, women and girls here in Scotland will not forget how they were treated by the First Minister’s Government. The SNP Scottish Government has chosen to embrace gender self-identification that threatens single-sex spaces—[Interruption.]
Let us hear the member.
—while ignoring the ruling of the Supreme Court on the definition of the word “woman”. When will the First Minister finally listen to the voices of women and girls from his own country, who demand that he protects women’s rights in Scotland?
Answer with reference to any comment in the statement, First Minister.
Pam Gosal raised an issue that was covered in my statement, which is the impact of gender-based violence against women and girls. Whether such violence takes place in Malawi, Zambia or Scotland, it is completely and utterly reprehensible and unacceptable. I represent a Government that takes that view, which underpins the approach that it takes to public policy in Scotland.
In an increasingly interconnected world, international development is a necessity, including in Commonwealth countries, where our Parliament plays an important role through the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association. Will the First Minister set out why international support is so important for Scotland and the world?
As I set out in my statement, the issues that affect Scotland and the issues that affect the global south are interconnected. We have to ensure that the actions that we take as a good global citizen assist in resolving some of the extraordinarily acute challenges that people in the global south face. That underpins our policy approach.
I go back to the discussions that took place 20 years ago in this Parliament. At the time, the United Kingdom Government made it clear to the Scottish Government that it welcomed the Scottish Government’s participation in international development activity because it recognised the scale of the challenge that was involved. This Parliament embraced that, which I welcome, and that is the foundation of the answer to Mr McMillan’s question.
I declare an interest as a co-convener of the cross-party group on Malawi. I warmly welcome the visits to Zambia and, in particular, to Malawi. Some will be surprised that that is the first time that a First Minister has been to Malawi since 2005, when Jack McConnell visited.
Although I welcome the funding from the Scottish Government, does the First Minister agree that the strength of the relationship is built on the people-to-people civil society links between communities, from Dumfries and Galloway all the way up to the northern isles, which are not necessarily funded by the Scottish Government? Does he recognise the work of the Scotland Malawi Partnership and the Malawi Scotland Partnership in supporting, connecting and reinforcing the relationships that provide so much good, not only to the people in the warm heart of Africa but to citizens here in Scotland?
I could not agree with Mr McArthur more. I have had the privilege of interacting with the Scotland Malawi Partnership and the Malawi Scotland Partnership, which are two excellent organisations that foster and nurture the community-to-community relationships that Mr McArthur has highlighted.
I recently attended an event in Dunblane with a Boys Brigade company that regularly interacts with a school in Malawi. This year, the young men from that organisation raised more than £100,000 to support developments in Malawi. Next week, they are coming to Bute house to describe to me their experience over the summer, when they travelled to Malawi to undertake the exact work that Mr McArthur has referred to. Yes, the Government plays a part, but the Scotland-Malawi partnerships help to encourage the partnership that Mr McArthur has talked about, which is rooted in the deep relationships between our countries that go back more than 150 years. We should work very hard to nurture those relationships.
Scotland has a history of supporting health systems in partner countries. What innovations and programmes have been brought about as a result of that, and how have they benefited Scotland and the countries that we partner with?
Many of those projects are in fields such as health, education, climate action and tackling poverty. There are mutual lessons to be learned about issues around disease management and vaccination development, which are important public health improvements and benefits that will be shared by all.
When the First Minister spoke to dentists in Malawi, was he asked why hundreds of Scottish dentists have left the profession in recent years? When he discussed dentistry in Africa, did he spare a thought for any one of the thousands of Scots who cannot get an NHS dentist after 18 years of the SNP being in power?
As Mr Ross knows, I am acutely focused on the challenges that people in Scotland face, which is why we are taking action through the investments in the national health service and the expansion of provision.
I am very proud of the fact that Scottish institutions have helped to train a cohort of dentists in Malawi, who will significantly improve the oral healthcare of people in Malawi and provide opportunities there. The sense of pride and esteem that was expressed in relation to the advantages and the connections with Scottish institutions was palpable, and Scotland should be very proud of that.
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