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Chamber and committees

Plenary, 23 Sep 1999

Meeting date: Thursday, September 23, 1999


Contents


Question Time


SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE


Agritay Ltd

1. Shona Robison (North-East Scotland) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it considers that the high value of sterling was a major factor in the recent job losses at Agritay Ltd in Dundee. (S1O-361) The Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Nicol Stephen): The Scottish Executive deeply regrets the loss of jobs at Agritay Ltd. I spoke today to Cameron McLatchie, the head of British Polythene Ltd, which owns Agritay. He said that there were three main reasons for the problems. First, the company was on the verge of going into receivership when it was purchased three years ago. Agritay sells to United Kingdom chemical and fertiliser businesses, many of which have recently lost markets. Secondly, the company was exporting significantly to Europe, but that market has gone quiet and has become uncompetitive. Thirdly, and most significantly according to Mr McLatchie, many of the bags that are manufactured—it is essentially an industrial textile business—are now being brought in from the far east, the middle east and eastern Europe, where labour costs are much lower than in the UK. The company has lost £500,000 in the past 18 months.

I appreciate that many businesses, particularly manufacturers that deal with Europe, including Agritay, have had concerns about the value of sterling, However, it is important to point out that

the level of sterling did not prevent the level of Scottish manufactured exports growing by 8.3 per cent in real terms in the year to end March 1999.

Before we go any further, may I say that I am going to have to be tough on the length of ministerial answers as well.

Shona Robison:

I thank the minister for his acknowledgement that interest rates and the value of the pound were factors identified by Agritay's management, as well as by the convener of Aberdeen economic development committee and by one of the Administration's back-bench members. What is he going to do about making representations to the UK Government about the value of the pound and the high level of interest rates?

Nicol Stephen:

Most parties in this chamber— certainly the Labour party, the Liberal Democrats and the Scottish National party—support the idea of decisions on such crucial economic issues being taken out of the hands of politicians and being made instead by financial and economic experts, either at the Bank of England or in Europe. The vital message that the Scottish Executive needs to get across is not that exporters need a weak pound, but that they need currency stability and predictability to help them secure greater export markets.


Farm Support

2. Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD):

To ask the Scottish Executive what progress is being made on the introduction of an independent appeal mechanism for farmers suffering penalties in relation to their European Union subsidy claims. (S1O-368) The Minister for Rural Affairs (Ross Finnie): An examination of possible options for an independent appeal mechanism is under way. Details of the proposed arrangements will be issued for consultation by the end of the year.

Euan Robson:

I thank the minister for his answer and for his courtesy in being in the chamber today when there are distractions—or attractions—elsewhere.

Does the minister accept that farmers are alarmed at the bureaucracy and inflexibility of the rules governing integrated administration and control scheme subsidy claims and at the handling of such claims? Will he undertake to include current disputes in the appeals procedure?

Ross Finnie:

I sympathise with Mr Robson's point about inflexibility. I regret to say that the determination of flexibility is entirely in the hands of the European Commission and the European Union, which set down the rules. There have been one or two—and only one or two—relaxations in how we are able to implement those rules, but I regret that flexibility is not in the hands of the Scottish Executive.

On prior claims, the scheme that I hope, as I said, to put out for consultation before the end of the year will have to meet European convention on human rights requirements. Retrospection is not built in or required and it would be neither practical nor practicable.


Housing

3. Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive what level of response there has been, through consultation on the housing green paper, to the anti-social tenant measures outlined therein. (S1O-373) The Minister for Communities (Ms Wendy Alexander): As set out in the green paper, significant measures have been put in place to tackle anti-social behaviour. Several respondents suggested that further steps are needed. We are considering the potential for further measures in the context of responses received and in the context of the partnership agreement.

Cathie Craigie:

Does the minister agree that combined efforts are needed by the Parliament, the police, communities, courts and local authorities to ensure that people are able to enjoy peace and quiet in their own homes? Does she also agree that it is not acceptable for the lives of the vast majority of decent people to be made miserable by a small minority who behave in an anti-social way?

Ms Alexander:

I agree with Cathie Craigie. As she knows, we have introduced anti-social behaviour orders and the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 provides the police with powers to seize noise-making equipment. I confirm that research into the legal process is under way, to identify any unreasonable delays in dealing with cases of anti-social behaviour.


Dumfries and Galloway Economic Forum

To ask the Scottish Executive what progress has been made on the establishment of the Dumfries and Galloway economic forum. (S1O-342)

The Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Nicol Stephen):

David Mundell will know that the decision to establish the forum was taken when Henry McLeish visited the area on 4 August. Officials from the Scottish Executive, Dumfries and Galloway Enterprise, Dumfries and Galloway Council and Dumfries and Galloway Tourist Board had a very constructive meeting on Monday 20 September to discuss the role and composition of the Dumfries and Galloway economic forum.

David Mundell:

I welcome the minister's answer. However, is he aware that a recent survey shows that Dumfries and Galloway has the lowest level of take-home pay in Scotland? Does he agree that one of the first priorities of the forum should be to address the issue of bringing well- paid jobs into the area—in particular, jobs of the kind that the Government could distribute to Dumfries and Galloway if it follows through on its decentralisation proposals?

Nicol Stephen:

I agree with David Mundell's objective. We want to have high-paid jobs—the last thing we want Scotland to be ambitious for is low-cost, low-quality jobs. I know that there is an existing joint economic strategy and I hope that this new initiative will lift the momentum for jobs in Dumfries and Galloway and provide the sort of work that David Mundell suggested.


Health Care

5. Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):

To ask the Scottish Executive what it intends to do to address the inequalities in health between men and women in Scotland. (S1O-366) The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon): There are clear differences between the health needs of men and women, but we should not forget that the life circumstances of individuals are also a key factor in health inequalities. Reducing inequalities between rich and poor will also help to tackle the different health needs of men and women. The Scottish Executive is committed to tackling health inequalities through national programmes on cancer, heart disease and child health. We will ensure a fairer allocation of national health service resources in future, in order to ensure that local health services meet real need.

Does the minister share my concern at the rising suicide rate among young men in the light of last week's evidence that no psychiatric beds were available in the whole of Scotland?

Susan Deacon:

I am concerned about the rising suicide rate among young men and about the many other problems that affect men in particular—I looked at some of those in detail last week when I attended an event in connection with men's health week. The health service and other agencies are getting better at recognising men's needs and they must continue to improve. The last part of Mrs Scanlon's statement is inaccurate. It is important that questions should be based on facts.


Road Maintenance

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it has any plans to introduce a Scottish equivalent of the national roads maintenance condition survey in England. (S1O-367)

The First Minister (Donald Dewar):

Presiding Officer, I would like to point out that Sarah Boyack is in Ireland today on Government business. She is attending an important European meeting and obviously, therefore, we must stand in for her. I am mindful of your advice, so as far as the question is concerned, the answer is no. [Laughter.]

I had hoped that Ms Boyack's new deputy might take the question—[Applause.]— perhaps he has.

Very subtle, very subtle.

Mr Tosh:

Does the Scottish Executive have, or does it plan to make available to itself, up-to-date and accurate information on the trunk road maintenance backlog? Will the money that is allocated in the Executive's programme for that backlog be sufficient to deal with on-going maintenance? How many years, at current projected levels of expenditure, does the First Minister expect it will take to eliminate that backlog?

The First Minister:

We do not have a national roads maintenance condition survey in Scotland because a more comprehensive survey is under way. The results are in table 5.5—"Trunk Road Network: Residual Life (Years)"—of "Scottish Transport Statistics 1999". If Mr Tosh wishes the technicalities, the table is based on deflectographs, high-speed surveys and scrim—or skidding resistance—with 100 per cent coverage every two years. I hope that I have supplied some interesting reading for Mr Tosh in the immediate future.

Mr Tosh:

Oh that Mr Salmond were here to hear the man who raised the ceefax question. I am grateful to the First Minister for indicating where the information might be found. Could he indicate whether the sums that are allocated are likely—in his judgment—to allow on-going maintenance at an appropriate rate and the elimination of backlogs and maintenance within a reasonable time scale?

The First Minister:

This is one of the areas in which there probably never is enough money. It is certainly one of the areas that has suffered a lack of funding in the past. Mr Tosh will know, of course, that there is an increased allocation of ÂŁ45 million in 1999-2000, as against the allocation of ÂŁ25 million in 1998-99. Matters are improving, as they generally are in public expenditure, over the period of the comprehensive spending review. I am sure that he will join me in welcoming that fact.


Kincardine Power Station

To ask the Scottish Executive what discussions have taken place with Scottish Power regarding the site and future use of the former Kincardine power station. (S1O-350)

The Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Nicol Stephen):

There have been discussions with Scottish Power on this issue. Scottish Power is part of a consortium undertaking a feasibility study into the possible establishment of a clean coal gasification power station at Kincardine. The consortium has gained EU financing under the THERMIE programme for this study. Scottish Ministers would have to consider and approve an application for consent under section 36 of the Electricity Act 1989 if the proposal were to progress to construction. I understand that such an application from Scottish Power could be at least five years away.

Bruce Crawford:

I am grateful for that answer. It does not require me to tell the minister that Clackmannanshire and west Fife have experienced severe job losses recently. I am aware of the clean coal plan, but it will not take up the whole of the site. Will the Executive ask Fife Enterprise and Forth Valley Enterprise to carry out a joint study on the possible future uses of this strategically important site on the banks of the Forth? The site has the potential to produce innovative future use solutions—

We have had the question.

I hope that the minister will support my suggestion.

Nicol Stephen:

The power station is being dismantled and the proposal for the new facility includes part of its site. Bearing that in mind, I will be happy to contact the local enterprise companies to encourage further investigation. I am not sure that I would call for a formal study at this stage.


Women Offenders

8. Michael Matheson (Central Scotland) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive what discussions have taken place with the Scottish Prison Service in relation to women offenders. (S1O-360) The Deputy Minister for Justice (Angus MacKay): The Scottish Prison Service has made encouraging progress in improving conditions for women prisoners. It has also participated in the inter-agency forum set up last year to address the issues highlighted in "A Safer Way", the joint prisons and social work report on women offenders.

Conditions for women offenders are one of many issues that the Minister for Justice, Jim Wallace, and I raised in our first meeting with the chief executive of the Prison Service more than two months ago.

Michael Matheson:

Is the minister aware that, in the Prison Service annual report, the chief inspector of prisons raised concerns about the number of women who are being placed in prison and that he raised particular concerns about remand prisoners?

In light of the fact that the previous justice minister, Mr Henry McLeish, stated that one of his key tasks would be to reduce the number of women being placed in prison, what new action is the Executive prepared to take to ensure that this issue is addressed urgently?

Angus MacKay:

A major review of community disposals took place last year. The chief inspectors of prisons and social work collaborated on that report.

A follow-up review is taking place under the auspices of Professor Sheila McLean. The committee that is dealing with the follow-up report has met eight times and we await a further report from Professor McLean.

A number of measures have been put in place in respect of bail retrieval for women prisoners who are remanded in custody. They are available as a result of the committee's work.


Roads (A9)

9. Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD):

To ask the Scottish Executive when work will commence on the scheduled major improvements to the A9 at Berriedale and between Navidale and the Ord of Caithness. (S1O-352) The Deputy Minister for Highlands and Islands and Gaelic (Mr Alasdair Morrison): Proposals for improvements on the A9 between Navidale and the Ord of Caithness are being considered in the strategic roads review. Sarah Boyack plans to report on the review shortly.

Mr Stone:

I thank the minister for his answer. As a good highlander, he will be aware of the transport problems in the remoter parts of Scotland. Regarding Berriedale, will the minister press my case with Sarah Boyack and her civil servants on her return? I seek a meeting to further this cause.

I will be delighted to convey that request to Sarah Boyack's private office.


Railway Station (Dysart)

To ask the Scottish Executive what progress it has made in the opening of a new rail station at Dysart. (S1O-348)

I understand that the south Fife and Forth estuary public transport study, commissioned by Fife Council, is reviewing the transport options for the area, including the merits of a station at Dysart.

Can the minister give me some indication of what the time scale will be? Will he further request a meeting with Sarah Boyack to discuss this issue?

Ms Boyack is in great demand today.

My understanding is that the report nears completion and might be available in three to four weeks.

I will be delighted to convey the request for a meeting.

Ms Boyack will be sorry that she ever went to Ireland.


Scottish Environment Protection Agency

11. Alex Johnstone (North-East Scotland) (Con):

To ask the Scottish Executive what selection criteria have been employed in determining the membership of the new board of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency. (S1O-375) The First Minister (Donald Dewar): Members of the SEPA board are appointed in accordance with paragraph 4 of schedule 6 to the Environment Act 1995, which states:

"In making appointments, Scottish Ministers shall have regard to the desirability of appointing persons who have knowledge or experience in some matter relevant to the functions of SEPA."

Alex Johnstone:

Is the First Minister prepared to comment on suggestions that there might be a geographical imbalance in the new appointments, in that some regions have not been adequately represented? Will he further comment on the suggestion that there may also be an industry imbalance, in that some Scottish industries are inadequately represented? Will he comment on the suggestion that there might be a political reflection of the new Executive in the new appointments?

The First Minister:

I am very sorry that Mr Johnstone harbours these somewhat unfortunate thoughts. I would have hoped that he had more faith in the good judgment of the Executive.

There are 11 members of SEPA, apart from the chairman, so it is just possible that the odd industry, and perhaps some areas of Scotland, will not be directly represented. That is inevitable. There are three elected members out of 12, of whom one happens to be a Labour member, but that does not seem to suggest any desperate outbreak of cronyism.

The important thing is to have on the SEPA board people who have the talents, the interests and the equipment to do the job well. I am satisfied that we have. I remind Mr Johnstone that there are three regional boards, and that they represent fully the geographical extent of Scotland.


Drug Trafficking

12. Mr Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it considers that enhanced powers to seize the assets of organised criminals, similar to those of the Criminal Assets Bureau in the Republic of Ireland, would help the fight against dealers in illegal drugs. (S1O-365) The Deputy Minister for Justice (Angus MacKay): Effective powers of confiscation are essential in our fight against illegal drugs. I intend to ensure that the powers that are available to the Executive and to enforcement agencies are effective. I am considering a range of options.

Mr McNeil:

I welcome the minister's answer, as I am sure the families and communities throughout Scotland who have suffered as a result of drug- dealing activities would welcome such powers being available. I understand that, under the current system, the proceeds from assets of convicted drug dealers—

Mr McNeil, we must have a question.

I know that you are going to be strict today, Presiding Officer, and I am coming to the question.

How long, O Lord, how long?

Mr McNeil:

The proceeds from the assets of convicted drug dealers, like fines, go into a consolidated fund. Will the minister investigate whether those assets could be returned to the communities from which they were taken? That would be a welcome boost for local drug prevention groups.

There was a question in the middle, there.

Angus MacKay:

As members may be aware, I have been invited by the Irish justice minister to visit Dublin to look at the drug enforcement practices of the Irish Government. While I am there, one of the subjects that I shall be interested to discuss is how assets that have been seized from criminals can be used in communities for preventive and rehabilitative work. While I am in Dublin, any inquiries for information on meetings

can be relayed to my office through the usual source, Mr Alasdair Morrison.


Housing

13. Mr Lloyd Quinan (West of Scotland) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive what contingency plans it has for investment in housing and housing maintenance where tenants reject stock transfer proposals by ballot. (S1O-374) The Minister for Communities (Ms Wendy Alexander): Where tenants reject stock transfer proposals, the council concerned will continue to be eligible for housing revenue account allocation from the Scottish Executive.

Mr Quinan:

Does the minister agree that, in the event of a ballot rejection, the level of investment will not match the investment that there would have been if the ballot had been positive rather than negative, and that, in reality, this is a form of blackmail?

Mr Quinan ignores the fact that the decision on the future of Glasgow's housing will be made by Glasgow's tenants alone.

Several members:

Glasgow's?


Teachers' Pay

15. Dennis Canavan (Falkirk West):

To ask the Scottish Executive, further to the answer to question S1O-267 given by Mr Sam Galbraith on 9 September 1999, whether it will make a statement on the up-to-date position on the teachers' pay dispute. (S1O-363) The Deputy Minister for Children and Education (Peter Peacock): Yesterday, Sam Galbraith announced that an independent committee of inquiry is to be established to make recommendations on a new pay and conditions package for teachers, and on a future mechanism for delivering and determining the pay and conditions for teachers.

Dennis Canavan:

If the minister really wants to reward teachers who want a good career structure without having to leave the classroom, why is there no classroom teacher on the committee that is to be chaired by Professor McCrone, who was a civil servant at the Scottish Office for more than 20 years? Why is the minister consulting only that so- called independent chairman before filling the remaining vacancy, which almost inevitably will lead to suspicions of McCronyism?

Peter Peacock:

On the first point, this Administration has a strong desire to ensure that teachers are rewarded for the job they do in the classroom, because they do a superb job. However, the present arrangements fail teachers by failing to give them the appropriate rewards to satisfy their needs as well as their communities' need for a strong education system.

In answer to Mr Canavan's second point, the composition of the inquiry team is broad. Two head teachers and a director of education will advise the team. The head teachers have been right through the school system and have seen the whole panoply of what goes on in a school, so they are well placed to make judgments, as is the director of education.

As to the final point about the vacancy, it is thought only proper that the chairman should be given the opportunity to consult ministers as to whom they think the last person in the team should be. There is no question whatever of cronyism.


Community Planning

16. Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive what progress has been made in the community planning process currently being undertaken by Scottish local authorities. (S1O-372) The Deputy Minister for Local Government (Mr Frank McAveety): We want to learn from the experience of the five pathfinder councils, which have now reported, and to build on that experience. One of the key elements of the new consultation document on the McIntosh report will be community planning.

Does the Executive intend to implement the proposals of the community planning working group to provide a statutory basis for community planning?

Mr McAveety:

As I said in my earlier statement, we are confident that there will be an opportunity for that debate during the consultation process. Those who want to argue for community planning and for other matters referred to in the document will have the chance to present their case. The authorities that have engaged in the pathfinder projects and found them to be beneficial will no doubt make such submissions, and I encourage others to give thought to the matter in the near future.


Telecommunications Equipment

17. Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive what guidance it will give local authorities on the implementation of an article 4 direction to restrict permitted development and require application to be made for the erection of all telecommunications equipment, regardless of height. (S1O-376) The First Minister (Donald Dewar): Current guidance on the use of article 4 directions in relation to telecommunications developments is at

paragraph 21 of the Scottish development department's circular 25/1985. We propose to introduce measures to give planning authorities greater influence over the siting and design of telecommunications developments generally, and masts in particular, as soon as possible; and will consider the need to amend the guidance at that time.

What further guidance will be provided to local authorities with regard to the acceptance of public perception of danger as a valid planning consideration?

The First Minister:

There will be a 42-day prior approval scheme for ground-based masts up to 15 m in height to allow for public advertisement of a proposal. As I said, local authorities will have additional powers in such matters.

As to health hazards, I must tell Elaine Smith that the mainstream scientific and medical advice that is available to the Executive suggests that there is very little or no risk to health. However, the National Radiological Protection Board has established an expert working group to examine mobile phone emissions, and any information that emerges will be considered very carefully indeed.


Pensioners (Concessionary Travel)

18. Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it is considering measures to improve concessionary travel schemes for pensioners. (S1O-346) The Deputy Minister for Communities (Jackie Baillie): Schemes are currently administered by local authorities. We shall consider appropriate ways to encourage their improvement and integration for pensioners and people with special needs.

Malcolm Chisholm:

Does the minister agree that although a wise decision about next year's pension increase is reserved to Westminster, there are many areas, including public transport, in which this Parliament can advance the interests of pensioners? I welcome the fact that the minister has talked about integration and I urge the Executive to move as quickly as possible towards a national concessionary travel scheme for pensioners.

The Executive is keen to make progress in such matters and is giving active consideration to establishing, with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, a joint working group to examine ways in which we can harmonise the schemes.


Deaf People

19. Mrs Mary Mulligan (Linlithgow) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it intends to set up a national register for deaf people. (S1O344) The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon): The Scottish Executive has no current plans to set up a national register. We are committed to addressing the needs of deaf people and those with other disabilities across all the work of the Executive. Tomorrow, ministers will hold a disability issues theme day with a wide range of organisations, including those representing deaf people, to hear their views and to address issues of concern to them.

Mrs Mulligan:

Is the minister aware that the Institute of Hearing Research at the University of Nottingham has developed a system to categorise the level of hearing loss, which could be used to identify people with moderate to severe hearing loss—the people who are most in need of service provision—so allowing services to be targeted at those most in need?

I was not aware of the initiative but I am happy to look at it if it will complement the work that we are undertaking in this area.