Skip to main content

Language: English / Gàidhlig

Loading…
Chamber and committees

Plenary, 05 Oct 2006

Meeting date: Thursday, October 5, 2006


Contents


Question Time


SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE


Finance and Public Services and Communities


Affordable Housing

To ask the Scottish Executive when the working group considering ways of increasing the supply of affordable housing will report. (S2O-10707)

The Minister for Communities (Malcolm Chisholm):

I convened the affordable housing working group to secure the input of a cross-section of interested parties on practical ways of making the housing supply more effective in areas of greatest need. The group has no plans to publish a formal report, but I intend its discussions to influence practice and help to inform our policy approach to the key subject of affordable housing.

Rob Gibson:

I hope that the minister is aware that, given the average annual salary multiplier, it takes four years to save the down payment on a property; that the density of new-build houses has had to be increased at recently approved housing developments, such as those in Dornoch, to enable people to afford houses; that house prices are rising faster in Scotland than in the rest of the United Kingdom; and that rises in the prices that are paid for Scottish estates and farmland have outperformed the stock market in the past 25 years. Given that, will he ensure that his working group evaluates the cost of serviced house sites, the cost of building materials and, above all, the rocketing cost of land for building, on which written answers to me have said that information is not held centrally?

Malcolm Chisholm:

Land supply is central to the group's discussions, but some issues are beyond our direct control, such as the cost of materials. We are concerned to consider all the issues—not just investment needs, although they are significant, but matters such as land supply. In the Highlands, which Rob Gibson represents, many of the problems are manifest, but action is being taken on all those fronts. A big increase has been made in the affordable housing investment programme and, if people in the Highlands vote for community ownership, great new opportunities will be presented, such as 1,000 homes over and above the existing increase, plus all the other rent and investment advantages for council tenants.

We are considering other issues, such as land banking. The innovative land banking scheme in the Highlands is helping to release land. Recent discussions have been held with Scottish Water on issues that I have been concerned about, so progress is being made. Of course, many issues and challenges exist, but we are rising to them, not least in the area that the member represents.


Councils for Voluntary Service

To ask the Scottish Executive what support it offers to encourage the work of local councils for voluntary service. (S2O-10745)

The Scottish Executive is providing more than £3 million per annum to the network of 56 CVSs throughout Scotland. That represents a 13 per cent increase on the previous three-year funding package.

Cathie Craigie:

I appreciate the work that the Scottish Executive has done to encourage voluntary organisations in communities. Is the minister aware of the difficulties that we are experiencing in Cumbernauld and Kilsyth and of the move by the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations to merge into one CVS all the CVSs in North Lanarkshire Council's area? Residents in my constituency and volunteers who are involved with that successful group of CVSs totally oppose that move. What is ministers' view on how the CVSs should approach the issue?

Johann Lamont:

I welcome the member's recognition of the significant support that we give CVSs. I said that the increase on the previous three-year funding package was 13 per cent, but members may wish to know that there has been a 30 per cent funding increase since 2001. That did not happen by accident; it was an active political choice to fund the CVSs, because we recognise the important services that they and the broader voluntary sector can provide locally.

I am aware of the issues in North Lanarkshire. The CVS network is independent of the Government. We are keen for the services that CVSs provide locally to continue and we have funded North Lanarkshire appropriately. How it is organised is a matter for the CVS network to decide locally.

Question 3, in the name of Jamie Stone, has been withdrawn.


Job Relocations

4. Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether, following the publication of the Audit Scotland report, "Relocation of Scottish Executive departments, agencies and NDPBs", it will now introduce a moratorium on relocation announcements until it can respond in full to the recommendations contained in the report. (S2O-10781)

The Deputy Minister for Finance, Public Service Reform and Parliamentary Business (George Lyon):

The Audit Scotland report does not call for and we do not propose to have a moratorium on relocation decisions. We remain committed to sharing the benefits of public sector jobs throughout Scotland, particularly in areas of need. The Audit Scotland report provides useful recommendations that are consistent with improvements that we have made and are making to the delivery of relocation policy. We are considering its findings carefully.

Margaret Smith:

I am disappointed by the minister's response to the question of a moratorium. A number of concerns were clearly brought out in the report. The Scottish Executive assured the Finance Committee that it would give more information about the reasons behind relocation decisions, but the Auditor General for Scotland has given evidence to the Audit Committee that he is not aware that that is being done. Will the minister assure us that more information will be forthcoming in future? Will he also seriously consider changing the policy so that final decisions are taken by accountable officers, as in the rest of the United Kingdom, rather than by ministers?

George Lyon:

I reassure the member that we have made it clear to the Finance Committee that we will provide full evaluations of all the relocation projects to date and that we will give statements of the reasons behind each decision.

Shifting the decision-making responsibility is an interesting idea and I have no doubt that ministers might want to consider it at some stage. At the moment, however, ministers will continue to make the final decisions on relocations.

Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab):

I appreciate the minister's comments about the clarification of the relocation criteria and more systematic working. However, does the minister agree that many of us think that the relocation policy is important and that, while there have been some issues with some relocations, it is crucial that we take jobs out of Edinburgh and do not end up with Scotland's government being concentrated in one city?

I have to agree with the member. Not many days go by without a member approaching me with a request that their area be considered and that relocations be delivered to them. The policy is extremely popular throughout the chamber.

Alasdair Morgan (South of Scotland) (SNP):

I welcome what the minister said in his initial answer, because the last thing we need is a moratorium on the relocation policy. Does the minister agree that we need more relocation of smaller units, particularly to those areas that have received very little from the centre, such as Dumfries and Galloway?

I am happy to concur with the member. I am constantly chiding officials to come up with more suggestions for small-unit relocations, and I could not agree more that they need to be well distributed around the country.

Susan Deacon (Edinburgh East and Musselburgh) (Lab):

The minister is aware that more than 1,000 staff are based at the headquarters of Registers of Scotland at Meadowbank. Does he share my concern that it is more than five years since a question mark was placed over the future location of the staff and the agency? When might a decision be taken on that? Will he assure us that he will take into account fully the evidence presented in two appraisals that shows that the cost to the taxpayer and the operational risk of even a partial relocation would be significant? If a commonsense approach were adopted in such cases, some confidence in the Executive's approach might be restored.

George Lyon:

I understand the member's point. I point out that the first phase of the investigation into the relocation of Registers of Scotland considered a full relocation and it was decided not to proceed with that. A second investigation was then undertaken into partial relocation. Ministers take this matter seriously, so we have sought further information to enable us to make an informed and proper decision. That information has now been provided and we are very close to making a final decision on the relocation of Registers of Scotland.


Homelessness

To ask the Scottish Executive what measures are being taken to address the issue of homelessness across Scotland. (S2O-10754)

The Minister for Communities (Malcolm Chisholm):

The Executive is working with local government and partners on a wide range of actions to prevent and tackle homelessness. In particular, action is focused on taking forward the recommendations of the homelessness task force and the interim objectives set out in my statement on the abolition of priority need.

Marilyn Livingstone:

I will concentrate my remarks on the Fife figures. Although there was a drop of 44 in the 2004-05 figures for people assessed as homeless, a Fife Council spokesperson confirmed in the Fife Free Press last week that the council expects there to be a rise in the 2006-07 figures. What steps can the Executive take to support councils and other agencies in stopping that upward spiral?

Malcolm Chisholm:

Assessed numbers of homeless people are much the same this year as last year. The number of applications went up a bit, but not in Fife, as Marilyn Livingstone has pointed out. If something is happening in Fife this year, it is not yet reflected in the figures. If Marilyn Livingstone has more information, I would be interested to hear it.

Generally, Fife is doing pretty well on homelessness, because of the policies adopted by the council. I was pleased to see that in Marilyn Livingstone's constituency there are plans to open a Home4Good centre. I was pleased to open a similar centre in Dunfermline last year. They are excellent centres where homeless people and those who are at risk of homelessness can access services that they need.

The budget for new affordable housing in Fife has increased significantly this year to £18 million, as against £12 million last year. Over and above that, in the past 12 months Fife Council has been awarded £5.6 million from the housing estates regeneration fund for new-build projects in regeneration areas. Fife is moving in the right direction when it comes to investment. The council has some excellent initiatives, as I said, but if there are continuing problems I would be pleased to hear about them from Marilyn Livingstone.

Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):

The minister must be aware of the great concern throughout housing associations and local authorities in Scotland that the 2012 target to house all those who are homeless is under threat because they simply do not have the resources. What can the minister tell us about additional resources that might go towards housing and homelessness to ensure that the 2012 target is met?

Malcolm Chisholm:

We are strongly committed to the 2012 target, as indicated by the profile of housing expenditure over the current spending review period. A further increase will be made in 2007-08 to bring the number of new builds up to 8,000. Anything beyond that will be a matter for the spending review, which will be informed by our policy commitment to 2012 and the detailed work to estimate housing need that we have been doing through Professor Bramley. Tricia Marwick can be assured that housing will be given significant attention in the spending review.


Business Rates

To ask the Scottish Executive how revenue raised from business rates has been affected by the increased number of low-cost flights to and from Scotland. (S2O-10725)

The business rate income collected from airports is a matter for local councils. The information that the member requests is not held centrally.

Phil Gallie:

Does the minister agree that the introduction of low-cost flights and the good support from the Executive has increased income into Scotland by £140 million? The point of my question is the opportunities for small business start-ups that arise from that. Does the minister agree that extra revenue will be raised by starting up those businesses?

Mr McCabe:

I concur entirely with that point. I am delighted that Mr Gallie recognises the visionary policies that the Executive has put in place to improve Scotland's economy and the business environment. We are delighted not only that the member recognises that but that we have been so successful in our drive towards consensus politics that Opposition politicians are so complimentary about us.

Mr John Swinney (North Tayside) (SNP):

I would hate the minister to think that consensus on the matter has been achieved on all sides. How many companies that are involved in the operation of low-cost flights have been disappointed by the Government's inability to publish and implement a research and development scheme that will reduce business rates for companies involved in R and D? The scheme was announced to Parliament, but we now understand that it cannot be implemented. Is it a significant number of companies or is this another case of information not being held centrally?

Mr McCabe:

I can confidently say that the number of such companies—if there are any—will be insignificant, because the initiatives that the Executive has put in place have created attractive business opportunities for companies and have helped many people in Scotland to enjoy the benefits of foreign travel at low cost.


Free Central Heating Installation

To ask the Scottish Executive how many homes in the Mid Scotland and Fife region have received free full or partial central heating installation since 2001. (S2O-10776)

Since the central heating programme started in 2001, 5,250 central heating systems have been installed in Mid Scotland and Fife, as at the end of September.

Mr Arbuckle:

Can the minister assure the Parliament that there will be a seamless transfer of obligations as part of the transfer of the delivery contract to Scottish Gas and that members of the Scottish Parliament will not be plagued by complaints about partially completed work, especially as winter is coming?

Johann Lamont:

Far be it from me to be involved in anything that involves MSPs being plagued by anything.

We acknowledged the need to go to tender for the new contract. It is essential that every penny that we spend is directed at ensuring best value, so that as many people as possible benefit from a significant programme. I remind members that in the 18 months from the beginning of October to 31 March 2008, £62.5 million of public money will be committed to ensuring that central heating is installed in people's homes. That is a remarkable amount of money, and we should not simply say, "Yes, we're spending that money, but let's talk about the difficulties with the programme."

There needs to be a transition period and we are determined that it should be as seamless as possible. We acknowledge that that will involve challenges, particularly given the popularity of the programme. Scottish Gas is charged with a commitment to customer care, as was the Eaga Partnership, and installers are continually reminded that although the central heating system is free for the person who receives it, it is not free for the public purse, so everything should be done to ensure that people receive systems in an entirely acceptable way. Of course, we are happy to respond to specific problems that might emerge as the process continues.

Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con):

Does the minister accept that in too many cases the worthwhile scheme that the Eaga Partnership used to operate resulted in horrendous problems for elderly people? In the worst case, an elderly couple's house burned down. Will the minister confirm that the Labour-Liberal Democrat coalition will at least assume a moral responsibility to help in such dire circumstances?

Johann Lamont:

First, I think that everyone recognises that the investment of £290 million of public money in central heating systems is not a problem, however members might try to characterise it as such. As a consequence of that huge public investment there have—understandably—been difficulties in individual cases. I have pursued such cases in the past and will be happy to do so again. However, there have not been, as the member said, difficulties "in too many cases".

There are challenges. I alluded to the fact that some installers have taken a poorer view of customer care than they would have done if the person had been paying for the system themselves. That is entirely unacceptable. Our contract with Scottish Gas emphasises the importance of customer care and responsibility.

Installers of central heating systems should be insured against problems, so we must be careful, because it would not be appropriate for the public purse to pick up the cost of problems simply because it is funding the central heating programme. I am mindful of the challenges involved, and installers are challenged not to regard the programme differently. I will take up individual cases as they are raised with me.

We should not allow anyone to talk down hugely significant public investment in addressing fuel poverty, which is making a difference and will continue to do so.

Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab):

I echo the minister's words. Many people in Cumbernauld and Kilsyth welcome and have benefited from investment in their homes and comfort.

However, as a result of the contract transfer, a number of good companies that demonstrate commitment to customer care are at a loss to know whether they will continue to be involved in the programme. Will the minister give me an assurance that Scottish Gas, the Executive and Communities Scotland will liaise with those companies, to ensure that we minimise job losses?

Johann Lamont:

I am conscious of the issue that Cathie Craigie has flagged up and would be happy to discuss it in more detail if she feels that there will be particular consequences in her area.

One of the important by-products of the central heating programme is that it has exposed the need to skill up our workforce to do such jobs. If anything, we may have been part of a job creation scheme in the field of central heating installation, which is to be welcomed.

I know that some challenges are faced in implementing the scheme in rural areas. My understanding is that Scottish Gas is content to continue to use installers who have the necessary expertise. It is logical for them to do that, especially in the light of our desire to make the transition between providers as seamless as possible. If there are specific concerns about the transition and how it might impact on jobs locally, I would be more than happy to discuss them with members such as Cathie Craigie.


Education and Young People, Tourism, Culture and Sport


Kinship Carers

To ask the Scottish Executive what discussions it has had with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities regarding the payment of allowances to kinship carers. (S2O-10766)

The Deputy Minister for Education and Young People (Robert Brown):

COSLA recently took part in a meeting with the Scottish Executive and local authorities to scope out the issues with regard to kinship care. COSLA has also been invited to join the reference group to support the development of the national fostering strategy.

Dr Murray:

I thank the minister for his reply and for the Executive's consideration of the circumstances of relatives who care for children whose parents are not capable of that.

Is the minister aware of the recent research that suggests that it might cost up to £100,000 to raise a child to the age of 18? Does he agree that grandparents, in particular, who may be retired or preparing for retirement after bringing up their own families, may find it extremely difficult financially to support their grandchildren for a number of years and, in some cases, to adulthood?

Robert Brown:

I recognise Elaine Murray's point. That is why kinship care is under urgent consideration as part of the development of the national fostering strategy.

The member will probably be aware that, on top of the other funding that is available, an extra £12 million has been put into the system to support foster care and kinship care. Local authorities have put that money to good use in progressing the kinship care agenda in a variety of ways.

We acknowledge and value the important role that is played by grandparents and other relatives in providing secure and stable homes for children. It is fair to say that local authorities can already pay allowances, both when children are formally in care and when they are looked after informally by relatives such as grandparents. Part of the task is to scope out the complex aspects of the different circumstances involved so that we end up with a system that is workable and practical and which brings relief to the kinship carers who are most in need.

Mr John Swinney (North Tayside) (SNP):

Does the minister acknowledge that in addition to the important issue that Elaine Murray has raised, a number of matters relating to the health portfolio arise under the care 21 agenda? Is there dialogue between education ministers and health ministers to ensure that the Government produces a comprehensive response that addresses the issues to do with the position of carers in today's society that care 21 raised?

Robert Brown:

I am grateful to John Swinney for asking that question. It is perhaps a commonplace to say that many of those issues go far wider than the departmental portfolio in which they lie. For example, kinship care overlaps with social security provision and other such matters that are reserved to Westminster. There are many complex issues for us to address.

The fostering strategy, which will be put out for consultation as soon as possible and certainly before the end of the year, will give people an opportunity to approach the argument from all sides. The Executive will ensure that all possible interests are taken on board in the discussions that surround those complex issues.


Examination Attainment (Dundee)

To ask the Scottish Executive why attainment levels for Scottish Qualifications Authority examinations in Dundee are below average. (S2O-10706)

The Minister for Education and Young People (Peter Peacock):

A number of factors may be involved. For example, people in Dundee are roughly twice as likely to live in a deprived area and there is frequently, although not always, a close correlation between deprivation and attainment.

In addition, 11 per cent of secondary pupils in Dundee have a record of need or an individualised educational programme, whereas the figure for the whole of Scotland is only 4 per cent. In Dundee, the rates for pupils who stay on into secondary 5 are significantly lower than the national average. That can show through in the overall statistics for exam results.

That said, all local authorities have a duty to secure the best outcomes for their young people and Dundee City Council's performance is being monitored through inspection by Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Education.

Shona Robison:

Does the minister share my concern that Braeview academy in my constituency has particular problems with SQA attainment levels? Is he aware that, although the school board has raised concerns about recruitment and retention problems at the school with Dundee City Council education department on a number of occasions over a long period, the problems continue and have a severe impact on attainment levels? When parents met me earlier this week, they expressed concern that some children had received no science teaching for the first six weeks of the new school term. I ask the minister to take those issues seriously. Will he agree to meet the school board and me so that he can hear those parents' concerns directly?

Peter Peacock:

I am obviously not directly aware of the concerns that Shona Robison raises. In the first instance, they are best discussed with Dundee City Council's director of education because the council carries the responsibility for such issues. However, we recognise the particular challenges that Braeview academy faces, which is why it was picked as a school of ambition. Extra investment is going into the school to try to encourage it to have more aspiration and to begin, over time, to lift standards. I am confident that the extra money that we are putting into the school—some £300,000 over Braeview's initial period as a school of ambition—will help to lift the climate of the school over time.

Marlyn Glen (North East Scotland) (Lab):

I welcome the minister's answer. Does the minister agree that the measures that are being taken in Dundee at the moment under the learning together in Dundee initiative are beginning to make a difference? I am not sure whether Shona Robison knows much about that. [Interruption.] I did not think that she was listening. Does the minister also agree that working together, rather than criticising from the outside, is the key to bolstering success in schools? Pupils and teachers need to know that they are being supported in their efforts while still being challenged. Complacency is not the idea at all. As a former teacher—

Is there a question here, Ms Glen?

There certainly is. I have asked this already, but I ask the minister to recognise the number of S5 pupils in Dundee who go on to college, where they do well. That measure is not included in school attainment.

Peter Peacock:

I got both Marlyn Glen's questions—the early one and the later one—even if members in other parties did not pay sufficient attention. One of the ways to increase attainment is to pay attention in class; it helps.

I agree that working together is important. It is also important not only to support schools when they are challenged but to make them face up to those challenges. Purely on the statistical evidence, Dundee City Council's performance is poorer than most in Scotland, which is something that the council needs to address over time.

However, Marlyn Glen is also right to point out that other factors beyond the pure statistics need to be taken into account. Dundee City Council is doing the right thing by offering a group of pupils an alternative curriculum that does not show up in the statistical results. It is also right to say that a higher number of pupils from Dundee's schools than from the cohort of schools that are similar to Dundee's go on to higher and further education. We are also seeing positive trends in Dundee in that fewer kids are ending up in the not in education, employment or training category. There is also very good practice in vocational education in Dundee, which Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Education has specifically praised.

Although there are serious challenges in Dundee that require to be addressed, it is not all gloom and despondency.


Pupil Attacks

To ask the Scottish Executive what support is available for teachers who have been attacked by their pupils. (S2O-10727)

The Minister for Education and Young People (Peter Peacock):

Pupil attacks against teachers are, thankfully, very rare but always unacceptable. However, when they occur, education authorities may respond, for example, by offering direct support and counselling services to staff and through restorative processes.

Margaret Mitchell:

Is the minister aware that, when a teacher is accused of attacking a pupil, there is currently no support or anonymity available to them, despite the fact that the vast majority of such allegations have been found to be without substance or have been disproved? Is he also aware that such allegations attract intense media coverage, as a result of which innocent teachers' reputations and careers can be damaged permanently? Will he therefore take steps to support teachers who find themselves in those circumstances by ensuring that their anonymity is protected until such time as they are proved guilty?

Peter Peacock:

That question was raised with the Executive some time ago and Cathy Jamieson responded to it by maintaining the current position. I recognise the member's point, however. Teachers can indeed get exposed to that sort of coverage in relation to an accusation that is not upheld in court, but so can individuals in other circumstances who go to court and are subsequently proved to be not guilty. It is difficult to distinguish the particular circumstances of teachers in such situations and in the court system overall, compared with the circumstances that might apply to others who go to court.

In the recent past, there have been two cases in Scotland with a very high level of publicity attached to each of them. In one, a teacher was cleared of the charges brought against them. I can understand the anguish that that person felt, although they were publicly cleared of the charges against them. There was also a case in the past couple of weeks in which the teacher concerned was found to be guilty of the charges. A balance must be struck. At present, the Executive does not see a case for changing the current position.

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con):

Does the minister appreciate the very strong feeling among teachers on the issue, especially as children—quite rightly—have anonymity? Will he accept that there is a very strong case for changing the law in the best interests of teachers, especially in cases where they are falsely accused, and all the more so as there should be a presumption of innocence, which in many cases is being breached?

Peter Peacock:

I do not think that the presumption of innocence is being breached by the Scottish court system—I am sure that Lord James was not suggesting that. I do not have much to add to my replies to Margaret Mitchell. We thoroughly considered the matter recently. We appreciate the point that teachers have been making. However, there are two sides to the coin. On balance, we felt that it was only right to maintain the existing position.


Historic Scotland (Town-centre Regeneration)

To ask the Scottish Executive how Historic Scotland is assisting the public and private sectors in the regeneration of town centres. (S2O-10753)

The Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport (Patricia Ferguson):

Twelve local authorities are to receive a share of £8 million in funding from Historic Scotland's historic environment regeneration fund to improve the state of repair and appearance of conservation areas, many of which lie within town centres. Both the public and private sectors will benefit from the partnership funding, which will support 13 area-based regeneration schemes and conservation initiatives. East Ayrshire Council has received an initial grant from the fund of £711,170 for Kilmarnock town centre.

Margaret Jamieson:

As the minister has indicated, East Ayrshire Council was successful in its efforts to attract funding from Historic Scotland. However, the local company that owns the former Kilmarnock Opera House, which is in the town centre regeneration area, was unsuccessful in obtaining funding from the historic environment building repair grant scheme. The company has been advised that it will now be considered for a share of the award that the minister mentioned. Will the minister assure me that she will recommend that the level of funding that has been awarded to East Ayrshire Council will be reconsidered should it be found to be insufficient to enable the inclusion of that private company in bringing the former opera house back into use?

Patricia Ferguson:

Ms Jamieson is correct to say that funding for the former opera house project will be provided by East Ayrshire Council out of its historic environment regeneration fund grant, which has been increased by £100,000 to accommodate that particular project. The sum is now larger than the amount that it might have been possible for the opera house to attract had it been able to receive money directly from the building repair grant scheme.

Although the proposals for the repair and renovation of the opera house are at a very early stage, I understand that the only part of the work that would have been eligible for the funding would have been largely used for the repair and retention of the façade. I understand that, in the event that the costs of the eligible works exceed Historic Scotland's initial estimate, the agency has already given East Ayrshire Council an undertaking to increase its conservation and regeneration grant further.

Mr Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con):

In areas facing severe economic difficulty, it is important that public and lottery moneys fund a higher proportion of the total cost of regeneration. Such areas find it difficult to draw as much funding from the private sector.

Will the minister consider moves to increase the support that Historic Scotland gives through its historic environment regeneration fund to projects that are receiving funding under the lottery's townscape heritage initiative?

Patricia Ferguson:

I am not sure that the basic premise of Mr McGrigor's question is accurate. However, I will say that Historic Scotland keeps its grants, and the criteria that apply to them, constantly under review. It will of course respond to any specific examples of difficulties in as sympathetic a manner as is possible within its structures.


Rural and Urban Schools

To ask the Scottish Executive how it differentiates between rural and urban schools in terms of policy making. (S2O-10783)

In making policy we endeavour to take account of the needs and aspirations of a huge range of different interests, including those of rural areas.

Nora Radcliffe:

I draw the minister's attention to the issue of underoccupancy in rural schools. Many such schools were built at a time when every farm sustained several families, and some were built as junior secondary schools at a time when the structure for delivering education was different from today's. Does the minister agree that, although technically underoccupied, those schools are still at the centre of a community and still in the right place? Will the minister assure me that that is firmly understood at Scottish Executive policy-making level, and that in any consideration of the viability of a rural school, technical underoccupancy will be treated either as largely irrelevant or as a positive factor, in that it could offer opportunities for alternative community or public use?

Peter Peacock:

There are various aspects to that question. I have a lot of sympathy with what Nora Radcliffe says. In many rural parts of Scotland, although the schools were designed for a different population from the one that exists today, it is not possible to have a school anywhere else because of the distances involved. Nora Radcliffe is also correct in saying that, when there is underoccupancy because of low pupil numbers, there are opportunities for providing other services—such as child care and early years services, which continue to expand.

I welcome the question because it gives me another opportunity to knock on the head the myth that a hard rule exists that, when a school's occupancy falls to 60 per cent, the local authority is obliged to consider its closure. That is simply not the case. The Executive does not recognise any such rule.

When reporting to local authorities on value questions, the Accounts Commission uses several thresholds to describe the occupancy of schools. It records 100 per cent levels, 80 per cent levels, 60 per cent levels and 40 per cent levels. None of those levels is a trigger for closing a school. Closing a school is a very serious issue and there should be no presumption of a school's closure by any local authority. The local authority always has to make the case for closure. It has to be clear and open with parents about what that case is, and everything should be done in public. There is no automatic rule and the Scottish Executive will not recognise any such rule.

Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP):

That was a very important statement for the Executive to make. However, how does the minister relate that statement to reports by Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Education? An HMIE report on the estates review in Moray specifically mentioned the 60 per cent rule and capacity issues. How will the minister ensure that the Accounts Commission, as well as using a value judgment on undercapacity, takes account of the educational and community benefits that a rural school can offer? How can we change the current climate, in which too many schools feel under threat because of statements from the Accounts Commission and from HMIE, which report to you?

Peter Peacock:

I am making it very clear that we do not recognise any 60 per cent rule. I understand its origin, but there has been a misunderstanding and misinterpretation of what the Accounts Commission means.

The Accounts Commission is perfectly at liberty to report on the facts of occupancy, as is HMIE. However, it is for elected local authority councillors—individually and collectively—to make political judgments about schools that might be considered for closure, or about changes in boundaries, or whatever. Nobody can absolve councillors of those responsibilities. We cannot blame the Accounts Commission or HMIE; councillors must take the responsibility themselves.

However, I want to be absolutely explicit. We do not recognise any cut-off point or any automatic rule. These are matters of local political discretion.


Regional Cultural Events

To ask the Scottish Executive what plans it has to support the development of regional cultural events. (S2O-10724)

The Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport (Patricia Ferguson):

EventScotland uses its regional events programme to support the development of cultural and sporting events throughout Scotland. It devotes £500,000 per annum for the purpose, which is disbursed through two competitive application rounds every year. Applicants such as events organisers can apply for between £2,000 and £25,000 as appropriate.

Mrs Milne:

I know that the Executive recognises the value of cultural tourism to Scotland and that the minister has personal experience of the Aberdeen international youth festival, in which I declare an interest as a trustee. Is the minister aware that the AIYF has exciting development plans and does she agree that, with the support of national tourism and cultural agencies, the event could be the focus for the promotion of Scotland as a centre for youthful creativity and artistic innovation?

Patricia Ferguson:

My experience of the festival indicates that it is already carrying out that role well. We wish to see such work increase and evolve as time goes on.

One of the strengths of EventScotland's regional programme is that, although it does not provide core funding to events that take place around the country, it will assist with the development of projects year on year if there is a reason to fund them in successive years. I am sure that the Aberdeen international youth festival will make its case to the appropriate bodies and I look forward to seeing the outcome of that approach.