Plenary, 23 Feb 2006

Meeting date: Thursday, February 23, 2006

Official Report 735KB pdf

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Question Time

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SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE

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Education and Young People,<br />Tourism, Culture and Sport

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Recreational Opportunities

To ask the Scottish Executive what action it will take to ensure access for young people to informal recreational opportunities. (S2O-9056)

We acknowledge the importance of access to informal recreational opportunities for young people and already support that objective through the child care strategy, the active schools programme, our approach to the early years curriculum and planning policy guidance. We will also carry out a consultation on youth work over the coming months.

I thank the minister for his response. Unfortunately, it does not answer the problems that have been raised with me by teenagers in the city of Aberdeen, who are being denied access to certain facilities, find formal facilities very expensive and cannot get to places because of a lack of community transport. They are looking for self-managed premises that they can use when the weather is bad, where they can be safe and secure and where they do not disturb anyone else. What will the minister do about that?

The issue that Mr Davidson has raised is a challenge in many parts of Scotland. However, it is essentially a matter for local councils to address with the quite substantial funding that is available to them.

In the first year of the active schools programme, in which £24 million has been invested, 600 active schools co-ordinators have been created and 190,000 activity sessions have been run. Moreover, draft Scottish planning policy guideline 11, which will be issued for a three-month consultation this spring, will set out national minimum standards for open-space provision in certain types of new development. The Executive is doing what it can to support the framework for developing informal recreation.

We regard play as extremely important. Indeed, as I said in response to Ken Macintosh a couple of weeks ago, it is central to a whole series of activities that the Executive wants to carry out.

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Gaelic-medium Education

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will provide an update on the provision of Gaelic-medium education. (S2O-9082)

As Gaelic-medium education is vital to the future of Gaelic in Scotland, we offer substantial support to local authorities, which are the principal providers of services. That support includes an increase in the Gaelic grant; an action plan for teacher recruitment; improved resources for schools; the expansion of the Gaelic curriculum at secondary school; support for a Glasgow Gaelic school; and the national Gaelic education strategy, which will be developed by Bòrd na Gàidhlig as part of a national Gaelic language plan.

I thank the minister for that detailed response. I am absolutely certain that the minister will be delighted to learn that 22 potential students have registered for the Strathclyde University postgraduate diploma in education in primary teaching with Gaelic that is currently being delivered by Lews Castle College in Stornoway and that a further 11 have registered at Inverness College. The delivery of that PGDE course by Lews Castle College is arguably one of the most exciting and significant developments in Gaelic teacher training in Scotland. Will the minister, and his colleagues in the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Department, use their good offices to ensure that the diploma is available in all university of the Highlands and Islands centres?

I am happy to support Alasdair Morrison's comments, although I must say that I am not sure whether the campus in Shetland will offer that course. However, I know that it would be entirely appropriate, for example, for Sabhal Mòr Ostaig in Skye to do so to ensure that people can access such courses locally. Such an approach will help to contribute to the number of extra teachers we are looking for. As Mr Morrison was right to point out, the fact that 22 students at Lews Castle College and 11 students at Inverness are already participating in these courses is encouraging. The more provision that we can create, the more opportunity we will have to bring in more people and to strengthen Gaelic-medium education further.

As far as extending Gaelic-medium education is concerned, I would like to hear a bit more from the minister about materials and buildings. In various areas, there might be conflicts of interest over the buildings that might be used. Moreover, as we have discussed before, more material will have to be made available. I am interested to hear how that matter is progressing.

I am not entirely clear about the point that Rob Gibson is making about buildings. Perhaps we can pursue that away from the chamber, as I do not want to mislead him.

We are seeking to do a range of things to improve access to Gaelic materials because the marketplace is not big enough to sustain commercial materials. We are making a lot of money available through Stòrlann Nàiseanta na Gàidhlig—which makes available Gaelic publications not only to schools, but more widely—and a group is considering the Gaelic secondary curriculum. New materials are being commissioned, and how existing materials can be shared electronically to greater effect is being considered. More recently, there have been encouraging offers from the BBC to help with the creation of Gaelic learning materials in the future, which will provide a large resource that can be accessed. Good progress is being made, but there is still a long way to go to make further progress in this important area.

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Public-private Partnerships (Schools)

To ask the Scottish Executive when it will invite bids for the next round of funding for its PPP schools programme. (S2O-9034)

Over the long term, the Scottish Executive is supporting 29 schools public-private partnership projects, with a capital value of around £2.5 billion. Further financial support for school building projects is a matter for the next spending review.

The minister will be aware of concerns about the future of Carronhill school, which is a special school in Stonehaven in my constituency, and of Aberdeenshire Council's decision to rebuild it and other schools if another round of PPP projects is forthcoming. I thank the minister for informing me about when there will be further financial support, but will he confirm that applications to build or refurbish special schools—such as Carronhill school—under the programme will be looked on as favourably as applications that relate to mainstream schools?

The Executive believes that it is important that special schools and facilities have a prominent position in the rebuilding programme. However, decisions on school estate priorities are a matter for local authorities, which have a variety of different resources at their disposal, including money that will be made available under the next PPP round. Decisions on individual school building programmes are entirely a matter for local authorities.

Mike Rumbles might be aware that Aberdeenshire Council decided at a meeting in December last year that St Andrew's school and Carronhill would be considered under a wider strategy that the council is developing on support for learners.

I welcome the first round of PPP funding, but is Robert Brown aware of the continuing poor condition of some North Lanarkshire schools? Has Peter Peacock talked to him about his recent visit to Alexandra primary school? Is he aware of the cramped conditions there? Will he take action to ensure that the pupils of that school and Rochsolloch primary school in Airdrie are taught in schools that are fit for purpose?

I am glad to say that Peter Peacock has mentioned to me his impressions of his recent visit to Alexandra primary school. The Executive is aware of the appalling state of some school premises and of the historic reasons for that. That is why the Executive is carrying out the biggest school building programme in Scotland's history. As I mentioned, our total investment in school PPPs is some £2.5 billion. We have significantly increased the schools fund, which will provide £96.7 million to authorities—the money will rise to more than £100 million next year. Resources are also available to local authorities under the prudential framework. However, individual decisions on priorities in local areas are a matter for local councils' spending bids.

I do not believe that a PPP approach represents good value for money, but given that the Scottish Executive has already provided funding for such projects, is there any action that the minister can take to stop PPP contractors building on beautiful Victorian public parks, such as Dunbeth park in Coatbridge?

Again, I must respond that such matters are largely for local authorities, which are democratically accountable for their decisions to their electors through the electoral system. However, there is Scottish Executive guidance on how PPP projects are approached and consulted on, and my colleague Malcolm Chisholm's department has planning guidelines relating to those matters that give guidance to local authorities on how they should retain as much open space and as many free play facilities as possible.

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Ambitious, Excellent Schools

To ask the Scottish Executive what progress has been made on the implementation of its "Ambitious, Excellent Schools" agenda. (S2O-9036)

We have completed 39 of the 69 commitments in "Ambitious, Excellent Schools" and we are well on the way to achieving the rest.

I welcome the progress that has been made on this. I am sure that the minister will agree that one of the aims of the agenda is to provide greater choice and opportunity for pupils. The report of Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Education entitled "Improving Scottish education", which was published this week, shows that Scotland is providing a high quality of education for most of Scotland's children. It also highlights several areas of concern. In particular, the overall level of attainment in secondary 1 to S4 is unsatisfactory. In terms of the "Ambitious, Excellent Schools" agenda, what further measures does the Executive intend to take to improve the transition between primary and secondary education and to improve the overall level of attainment in the lower years of secondary schools?

Iain Smith makes a wide range of points. He is right to draw attention to the fact that the HMIE report that was published this week—which is the most comprehensive report that we have seen of our entire education system—is positive about the ability of the Scottish education system to deliver. It reports clearly the success and strength of the Scottish education system. However, he is also right to say that the report also points out some of the concerns that we ourselves have pointed out. The report confirms the areas that we have identified as requiring attention, and that is where the "Ambitious, Excellent Schools" agenda comes from.

Part of that is about widening choice and opportunity for young people. We are considering, for example, new vocational courses and skills-for-work courses in our schools. We have changed the age-and-stage regulations to give more freedom of choice to teachers and pupils about what to study, when to study it, what exams to sit and when to sit them. A range of changes are taking place, but we need to do more, as Iain Smith has said, to plan transitions from primary to secondary education. That is one of the reasons why we have changed the rules to allow primary teachers to move into secondary education. That is also why we are in the midst of a major curriculum review that is looking particularly at S1 to S3, in which years we know that too many young people are disengaging. We want to find the excitement and pace in learning that they require to remain engaged.

We are making progress, but we will redouble our efforts in the light of the HMIE report, which confirms that our direction of travel is the right one.

Highland Council states that it has been given one third of the funding that is needed to implement the McCrone settlement and that, if it cannot cut back primary education, it will be faced with cutting back advanced higher classes. Pupils in one Inverness secondary school are already being told that the only advanced highers that will be on offer next year will be in Gaelic and maths. Can the minister confirm what statutory obligations councils and schools have to offer the advanced higher and how these cuts will affect pupils from the Highland region in their career and university choices in the future?

I will address the point about statutory obligations first. As Scottish education is structured, in relation to the curriculum, there is no statutory requirement to provide specific courses. Curriculum guidance is given, but it is very much down to local authorities and schools to tailor their curricula to suit their particular group of young people.

It is regrettable that Mary Scanlon uses the word "cuts" in this regard. We are actually putting more money than ever into teaching. Huge additional resources are going into education. We exempted teacher costs from the efficiency targets that have been given to local authorities, and an extra £60 million has just been allocated to bring extra teachers into the system, not to reduce their number. In the Highlands, we are allocating more than £2.6 million over the coming two years to do that. In addition, there will be more than 100 probationer teachers in Highland this year, and there will be more next year.

I have here a letter from the director of education of Highland Council. I do not know whether Mary Scanlon has been able to read it yet. I will quote from it, as it clarifies the position in the Highland Council area. The director of education says that

"there is an ability in the vast majority of schools for the 22.5 hour entitlement"—

which was part of the McCrone settlement—

"to be absorbed within the current staffing entitlements."

Most secondary schools in the Highland area are already meeting the requirements and do not need the extra resource to do so.

The letter goes on to say that pupils should still be being asked

"to list those courses that they feel are required"

and that

"final decisions on the timetable will not be made until after the Easter Holiday period."

That is some weeks away. I quote further. The letter says:

"it is very unfortunate that pupils and parents have been given the impression that there are to be significant cuts in curriculum options across all Highland schools when in fact it is clear that this is not the case."

The director of education then asks his head teachers—and I ask the chamber—to

"be very careful not to set any premature worries in the minds of pupils and parents"

about these matters. I ask Mary Scanlon to follow that advice.

I appreciate the minister's answer to Mary Scanlon, as my worries were in the same direction. The minister may recall the conversation that we had yesterday on this subject.

Is the minister aware that the former certificate of sixth year studies, now advanced highers, have always been under pressure because of the small numbers of pupils involved? Could I ask the minister to look into how schools in the Highland area in particular, but also in other rural and even city areas, might combine and amalgamate, possibly delivering classes and lectures via their intranet services? As a former SYS teacher, I know the pressures that schools are under to deliver courses.

Maureen Macmillan happens to be a former, and very distinguished, teacher at Millburn academy, and she made a big contribution to that school's success over the years. She understands intimately the nature of the changing size of the school population and the changing interests of pupils, as well as the pressure that that puts on very small course numbers at the top end of the school.

Maureen Macmillan makes at least two other good points. In the letter from which I have just quoted, the council's director of education, culture and sport discusses the opportunities for schools in the Inverness area in particular to work collaboratively to provide more, not fewer, opportunities for young people. He also mentions the SCHOLAR programme and the interactive learning that is being provided at a distance. For many schools in the Highlands and Islands, the Borders and other areas, that provides the only way to provide some courses at the level concerned.

There is a range of ways in which schools can hope to accommodate their pupils' needs—it is about trying to widen opportunities and to accommodate pupils' needs and desires. That is why we are investing a huge amount of additional resources in extra teachers throughout the school system.

Is the minister aware that the withdrawal of advanced highers from pupils in Inverness is a direct response to the failure to support the class-contact time reduction that was agreed nationally under the McCrone settlement? Is he aware that, in the same letter from which he has quoted, the explanation of the difficulty with class-contact time reduction is that

"the allocation of additional resources from the Scottish Executive does not allow us to pass on any additional resources to secondary schools"?

Will the minister look into the issue of the top-slicing of the nationally agreed McCrone settlement to fund reductions of provision elsewhere? Will he ensure that Highland Council and the pupils who are directly affected are not compromised by a failure on the part of the Executive to fund the McCrone settlement fully?

I am absolutely confident that we have fully funded the McCrone settlement. Highland Council is rightly pointing out that the priority for the significant amount of extra cash that we have given them lies in the primary sector, which is still to make reductions in class-contact time, whereas that has been significantly achieved in the secondary sector already in Highland schools. That is why money is not being passed on to secondary schools.

Here we have a classic piece of opportunism by the Scottish National Party. The SNP is just taking another chance to scaremonger. I will quote again from the letter of the director of education, culture and sport, and I ask Fiona Hyslop to take this seriously:

"be very careful not to set any premature worries in the minds of pupils and parents in this respect."

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Scottish Culture

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it considers Scottish culture to be a distinct market from that of the rest of the United Kingdom. (S2O-9093)

Scottish culture is distinctive in national as well as international terms. We believe that culture is a vital ingredient in Scotland's success, both here and overseas.

Is the minister aware of the report from the Office of Fair Trading into the proposed merger of Waterstone's and Ottakar's book stores, in which it was stated there was

"no evidence to suggest that Scotland should be looked at as a distinct geographic market"?

Is it not entirely unacceptable that Scotland's unique culture should be treated as part of the UK market? What action does the minister propose to take to ensure that the position that was taken by the OFT does not threaten us with regard to booksellers and the publishing sector in the future and with regard to other aspects of Scotland's distinct culture?

If Mr MacAskill had been listening when I made my cultural policy statement in the chamber last month, he would have heard about the added emphasis that the Executive gives to both literature and publishing. I am very disappointed that he should decide to frame his question in that way.

However, Mr MacAskill will know that the OFT's report is, strictly speaking, a matter for my colleagues at Westminster. The comments that he quotes must be seen in the context of the particular enterprise that the OFT was looking into at the time. That does not mean to say that there is any contradiction with the policy of the Scottish Executive. Our policy is clear: we see our culture as a vital ingredient in our success, as I have already said.

The direct answer to Mr MacAskill's question, which was whether the Scottish Executive considers Scottish culture to be a distinct market from the rest of the United Kingdom, is that we do and we take every opportunity to ensure that our distinctive culture is given its place and is used to promote our country. We will see many examples of that in the coming year, such as on tartan day in New York next month, in which organisations as diverse as the National Galleries of Scotland, the Scottish Youth Theatre and Scottish Screen will be taking part. Our commitment to our culture should not be in question.

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Finance and Public Services and Communities

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Equal Pay (Local Authorities)

To ask the Scottish Executive what financial support has been provided to assist local authorities to meet equal pay settlements. (S2O-9088)

The Government is providing record levels of funding to local authorities in Scotland. Of course, how they spend that money is a matter for them, but I note that the average council tax increases for 2006-07 are the lowest since devolution.

I thank the minister for his not-unexpected answer. He is of course aware—he alluded to this in his answer—of the tough financial decisions that some local authorities are having to take to meet equal pay settlements. Is he aware of the suggestion that some councils are coming down harder on council tax defaulters as a result and are increasingly using the threat of bankruptcy in cases involving arrears of as little as £2,000, which in effect threatens people with the loss of their homes and therefore works contrary to the Executive's commendable policy on homelessness?

I think £2,000 is a considerable level of debt in anyone's eyes. I am aware of no evidence that councils, as a result of their single status or equal pay obligations, are coming down any harder on people who have failed to pay their council tax. However, I have urged Scottish councils to look at their records of collection of council tax to ensure that they maximise the income that is available to them so that they can provide the world-class services that people in Scotland need and deserve.

The minister, not surprisingly, made some robust remarks to the Finance Committee on Tuesday about the role of local authority chief executives in encouraging elected members to settle equal pay cases and implement the single status agreement in Scotland. Since that meeting, has he reflected further on the role that the Scottish Executive could play in trying to break the impasse that has existed for some time between trade unions, the local authorities as the employers, and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities—which has prevented resolution of a major outstanding issue in financing of local authorities—and thereby do something to resolve a major problem that affects every local authority in Scotland bar one, which happens to be the one that he represents?

I thought that my comments at the Finance Committee were fairly quelled and soft. If I did anything to upset Mr Swinney, I can only apologise. He is normally fairly robust himself.

He was impressed.

Good. I am pleased to hear that; it is encouraging. We are going in the right direction.

I reflect constantly on these matters. We are in constant dialogue with COSLA and I will meet its representatives again in the near future, when we will of course discuss this issue and many others. I have said to councils that have made representations to us that we will do all that we can to assist when we can see examples of service redesign, when they can demonstrate that flexibilities in the workforce have been increased, and where the public who receive the services can see discernible benefits in service delivery through agreements having been reached that provide employees with the right terms and conditions.

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North Lanarkshire Council and South Lanarkshire Council (Meetings)

To ask the Scottish Executive when the Minister for Finance and Public Service Reform last met the leaders of North Lanarkshire Council and South Lanarkshire Council and what issues were discussed. (S2O-9023)

I last met Jim McCabe, leader of North Lanarkshire Council, at a meeting of Convention of Scottish Local Authority leaders on 23 January, and I am due to meet both leaders to discuss public sector reform in the near future.

Does the minister share my concern that, as part of the public-private partnership contracts that both councils have either agreed to or proposed in respect of the redevelopment of schools, there will be, in the case of Uddingston grammar school, a substantial loss of school playing fields and, in the cases of Holy Cross high school in Hamilton and Coatbridge high school in Monklands, a loss of common good ground that was gifted for the benefit of local people?

Will the minister confirm that the permanent loss of those outdoor facilities and of that recreation ground, the acquisition of which involved the expensive exercise of employing a Queen's counsel and petitioning the Court of Session, does not represent value for money?

I categorically do not agree with that statement—the member would not expect me to. However, some of the schools that she mentioned have been in need of replacement for some considerable time. The replacement buildings will provide pupils in those areas with world-class facilities in which to learn and grow, which is exactly the kind of environment that we are trying to create in Scotland. I am proud of the councils for their efforts to ensure that that is what happens.

We are seeing a transformation in our schools estate that is beyond the imagination of people of previous generations. That is also being done in a truncated time; people in those areas are pleased and astounded by the speed of change. The replacement buildings will result in better-educated children and more rounded individuals who will serve our society well. I applaud the local authorities' efforts to try and ensure that that is what happens.

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Green Space (Community Access)

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will issue guidelines to all local authorities that they should undertake green-space audits with the purpose of establishing a minimum standard of community access to informal and formal green space. (S2O-9102)

National planning guidance encourages local authorities to undertake open-space audits, as they form an essential first step in preparing their open-space strategies.

The Executive is currently undertaking a review of national planning policy on open space. A consultation draft will be published in the spring.

I believe that the City of Edinburgh Council is the only local authority that has so far embarked on an audit. Opportunities for our children to play are limited; indeed, they seem to be getting worse. In the United Kingdom, we now have 80 acres of golf course for every acre of children's play space.

Barnardo's and Play Scotland have called for a broad package of measures—a play strategy—the aim of which would be to provide a safe and accessible play environment for every child in Scotland. Earlier this afternoon, we heard that 600 active schools co-ordinator posts have been created. However, according to the British Medical Association, the opportunity for spontaneous play may be the only requirement that young people need in order to increase their physical activity. Given that—

Question please.

Does the minister agree that protecting green recreational space should now be a national priority?

First, I do not agree with the comment that the member made on the number of open-space audits. The fact is that at least half the local authorities have started an open-space audit or are completing one.

At national level, through the planning advice note process and our review of national planning policy guideline 11, "Sport, Recreation and Open Space", we are very keen to understand exactly what open space means to local communities and how communities and authorities can develop standards and strategies.

I recognise the importance of informal play and formal play. I am proud of the Executive's record in investing in our communities and in understanding the need for sport and physical activity. It is important for us also to recognise the importance of maintaining open space. It is therefore to be regretted that, when the Green party had the opportunity to support our proposals to deal with some of the problems in respect of open spaces, including the fact that they are not safe to use if they are frequented by disorderly people who keep other people away, it did not. In order to keep young people safe on the streets when they are playing, we have to deal with the people who make our streets unsafe.

The general thrust of the points that Robin Harper and others are making—that we must encourage physical activity and that, in the planning process, we have to recognise the importance of well maintained and safe open space—is, of course, at the heart of the Executive's approach.

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Central Heating Programme

To ask the Scottish Executive why there is a delay in the installation of central heating for older people who have been assessed as meeting the eligibility criteria under the central heating programme. (S2O-9072)

Once eligibility has been assessed, it inevitably takes time to carry out and complete the installation of a new central heating system, including the necessary post-installation checks. Moreover, demand for the programme continues to be very high, which puts strain on the managing agents' and installers' capacity.

We are committed to doing everything we can to ensure that eligible applicants have their systems installed as soon as is practicable and that waiting times are kept to a minimum.

Is the minister aware that the Eaga Partnership is withholding installation of central heating to my constituent Mrs Armour of Kilmarnock, who was assessed in November 2004 as being eligible, and that the reason Eaga is giving is that it is awaiting the minister's decision on the future of the scheme? Does the minister agree that Eaga does not have the right to withhold installation while the current scheme is in operation? Will he assure me that he will raise the matter urgently with Eaga?

I have certainly had concerns about some of the comments that Eaga has made and my officials have already contacted it about them. I am astonished by Margaret Jamieson's example, although I obviously do not know the specifics of it. I will look into the case, if she will pass me the information. We are required to tender for a new contract this year—there is no way of avoiding that, so it will happen—but we are trying to ensure that the service is as seamless as possible during that period.

By the end of March, we will have installed 14,000 central heating systems in the private sector in this financial year, which is an all-time record and is 1,000 more systems than have ever been installed in a single year. The new contract will kick in exactly halfway through the next financial year, so we have told Eaga that it should spend half of the money for next year in the six months during which it will certainly have the contract. Of course, Eaga will bid for the new contract, too. I understand Margaret Jamieson's concerns. I have taken some action on them and I will examine them further.

As the minister knows, the Scottish National Party is fully supportive of the principle of the central heating programme; indeed, we wish the programme to be extended to low-income families, which is an issue that I have raised before. Given the punitive increases in fuel costs in the past few years, has the minister made representations to Westminster about increasing the £200 winter fuel allowance and extending that scheme to low-income families so that they can switch on any central heating that they have?

The fuel price increases raise a range of issues. I have written to the energy companies to urge them to do everything they can—more than some of them are doing—to help their low-income customers. We are extensively using other policy levers that we hold, such as improved insulation. Nine out of 10 people who were in fuel poverty and who have had central heating installed under the central heating programme were moved out of fuel poverty as a result. The price rises obviously raise issues for the Westminster Government, on which we have on-going discussions. The important point in the present situation is that all the players should do everything in their power to ensure that the unwanted price increases do not have the effect that we fear on low-income customers.

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Right-to-buy Policy (Pressured Areas)

To ask the Scottish Executive how many local authorities have applied for, and been granted, the right to suspend the right-to-buy policy in pressured areas. (S2O-9094)

Five local authorities have applied for right-to-buy pressured area designations. The Scottish ministers have approved designations in three local authority areas so far and two applications are being assessed.

Given that a recent survey showed that 77 per cent of councillors support action in pressured areas, will the minister simplify the application process for pressured area status and take steps to speed up the decision-making process in the Scottish Executive? Can he give an update on when he expects to make a statement on the right-to-buy consultation?

The work on the report on the right to buy is on-going and the report will be produced in the autumn. I have considered how long some applications take and I am satisfied that the right procedures are being used. A thorough assessment must be carried out when it is proposed to remove from an area the right to buy.

Some local authorities have provided the necessary information quickly. East Renfrewshire's application, for example, was processed quickly. It took a bit longer for South Ayrshire because we did not get the information that we required quickly, but that has now been dealt with. I have looked into the matter and I think that the procedures are correct and that exemption from the right to buy in pressured areas is an important part of the 2001 legislation. That is a good approach for us to take to the right to buy.

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Planning etc (Scotland) Bill

To ask the Scottish Executive how the Planning etc (Scotland) Bill will benefit local communities. (S2O-9084)

The proposals that are set out in the Planning etc (Scotland) Bill will result in a more efficient and transparent planning system, with community involvement at its heart.

I understand that there is no mention of consultation or public involvement in the bill. Without a clear indication of how consultation and public involvement will be enacted, people will continue to think that the only way to address the present inequalities is to introduce a third-party right of appeal. Does the minister intend to amend the bill so that there is no doubt that communities are at the heart of the planning system?

As the bill goes through Parliament—particularly stage 1, in which the Communities Committee is dealing in detail with the challenges and opportunities that are presented by the bill—there can be no conclusion other than that community engagement is threaded right through the bill, rather than just being a bolt-on to it. On whether the word "consultation" is in the bill, perhaps the bill includes something more explicit and tough. I can give examples of inclusion measures that encapsulate the national planning framework: they are in the bill, in the development plans scheme, in the development plan itself and in development management. We are clear that communities have to be engaged at an early stage, particularly on development plans. It is essential at every stage that communities be kept fully informed and have an opportunity to make their voices heard. I do not accept the characterisation that has been made. I am happy to go through the specifics of the bill in more detail with Mrs Mulligan, but I am confident that, in committee in particular, those challenges will be explored.

I put it to the minister that despite the warm words and sound tone of the white paper, the bill is a substitution of existing rights with opportunities for consultation. Will the minister confirm that individuals and communities will, for example, lose the right to have their local plans subjected to a public inquiry, that process being determined by the reporters unit? To do away with consultative drafts of plans will remove people's right to engage in the detail at that stage. Given the substitution of rights with mere consultation, many people will be left feeling that they will have less power under the new system than under the old one and that they will have less incentive to engage in the up-front involvement that we all want.

Everybody recognises the challenges of the bill, but if people are going to be discouraged from being involved by people constantly telling them that the bill is not an opportunity but a sell-out, cynicism and disengagement will be created that will be difficult to turn round. Those are not "warm words". Close study of the bill will establish that community involvement and community engagement are at the beginning of the process. Any test of an application has to be matched against the quality of community engagement. By putting the development plan at the centre of the planning process, we will allow engagement and involvement at an early stage.

I do not accept the notion that there will be a substitution of rights. There are clear rights in the bill. It is unhelpful for people who are opposed to the proposals in the bill to focus simply on one acid test regarding a third-party right of appeal. The bill attempts to encapsulate all the challenges and complexities of the planning process. I assure Parliament, as the Executive has done previously, that we are entirely committed to people being able to shape their communities and to there being as much transparency in the process as possible.

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Civil Service Job Dispersal (Dundee)

To ask the Scottish Executive what progress is being made in the dispersal of civil service jobs to Dundee. (S2O-9058)

Under the Scottish Executive's relocation policy, more than 131 posts have been established in Dundee since 1999. That number includes 29 staff members relocated to the Scottish Social Services Council, 72 to the Scottish Commission for the Regulation of Care headquarters and 30 to the Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator. I assure the member that Dundee will continue to be considered as a potential site in future location reviews.

Does the minister appreciate that, although Dundee started from a low base, those welcome job transfers represent a mere 0.3 per cent growth in civil service jobs in the city since 1999? I am sure that the minister is aware that three sites in Dundee have been identified for possible future relocations, but will he give me a clear timetable for when Dundee can expect more jobs to be dispersed to the city? Does he appreciate that, if he cannot, The Courier's comment that there has been more talk than action on the issue will be seen to be well founded?

Because of the location reviews and engagement between the Executive, local councils and local enterprise companies, we have identified 500 sites and locations to which we can consider relocating civil service jobs under the relocation policy. However, I cannot assure Shona Robison that the sites that Dundee City Council and the local enterprise company have identified will be taken into consideration in any future plans to relocate civil service jobs.