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Chamber and committees

Plenary, 18 Sep 2008

Meeting date: Thursday, September 18, 2008


Contents


Question Time


SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE


Education and Lifelong Learning


Primary Class Sizes

To ask the Scottish Executive how many of the 3,599 targets, outcomes and indicators contained in the 32 local authority single outcome agreements commit to delivering class sizes in primaries 1, 2 and 3 to a maximum of 18 by 2011. (S3O-4266)

The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Fiona Hyslop):

Under the terms of the concordat, local government has undertaken to make year-on-year progress on class size reduction in primary 1 to primary 3. Therefore, it was unnecessary for local authorities to include references to class size reduction in primary 1 to primary 3 in their single outcome agreements.

Jeremy Purvis:

On 25 June, Rob Gibson asked the cabinet secretary:

"Do you agree that the concordat's single outcome agreements will be a more accurate measure of progress than we have had in the past?"—[Official Report, Education, Lifelong Learning and Culture Committee, 25 June 2008; c 1285.]

She answered: "They will". However, there is no published objective or independent system of verifying whether the Government's policy is being delivered. For the Government simply to state now that there was never any intention that the single outcome agreements would mention it is outrageous. Not one of the 3,599 outcomes, indicators and targets is about class sizes. The Government is letting down Scotland's parents significantly. Will the cabinet secretary ensure that next year's single outcome agreements have at least some published indicators that demonstrate whether the policy is being implemented?

Fiona Hyslop:

I can certainly make representations that that is the Liberal Democrats' view when I meet representatives of the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities this afternoon. However, there are 14 commitments in the concordat with local government, many of which are not mentioned in the single outcome agreements. The freezing of council tax rates, the small business bonus scheme, free school meals, allowances for kinship carers and carers support through extra respite weeks are all commitments that have been agreed by local government in the historic concordat, although none of those is in the single outcome agreements. The agreement is with local government; it will deliver and we trust it to do so.

Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):

At First Minister's questions, I referred to Friday's Court of Session judgment, which rides a coach and horses through the Scottish National Party's class size policy. Does the cabinet secretary accept that, without legislation being put in place to protect them, councils could face legal challenge from parents even if they wanted to implement the policy and had the money to do so? Does she accept that, if she is serious about the policy, the Government must legislate?

Fiona Hyslop:

I refer Murdo Fraser to the First Minister's reply, in which he said that we are reviewing the judgment in the East Lothian case. I point out that the 12 per cent of classes that are already smaller than 18 are not operating illegally.

Yes, we need resources to reduce class sizes. Indeed, the concordat refers to maintaining 53,000 teachers in our education system, which would allow headroom to make progress. However, Murdo Fraser is right to identify placing requests as an issue—the case that the Court of Session recently considered was not about the SNP's commitment with local government to class sizes of 18, but about the previous Administration's proposals for class sizes of 25 in primary 1. We will reflect on whether there is a requirement for legislation, but it is not a prerequisite to deliver on class sizes.

Murdo Fraser might consider the Conservatives' position. If they take the position that there should be no class size limits whatever and that headteachers should have discretion, that would make it difficult to protect parents when they make placing requests. Parents would have difficulty making such requests without class size legislation unless there was another test for access to a school: passing an examination. That may be the system south of the border, but it is certainly not the system in Scotland. Murdo Fraser should tread carefully before asking for legislation that would put the Conservatives' policies in jeopardy.


Probationary Teachers

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it supports the teaching of pupils in primary 1 to P3 by probationary teachers. (S3O-4176)

Yes.

Nanette Milne:

I thank the minister for her brief response. I recently met a group of Aberdeenshire parents whose children have been taught by probationary teachers in primaries 1 and 2. Those parents are concerned that their children are being taught by probationers year on year. Is there a limit on the number of probationary teachers who are allocated to the same class year on year? Will the minister undertake to investigate the situation to guarantee that primary schoolchildren who are taught by probationary teachers year on year are not, in fact, being disadvantaged?

Maureen Watt:

I thank Nanette Milne for her supplementary question. Every year, 6,000 teachers are due to retire, so we obviously need the probationary teachers. A teaching qualification in primary education prepares teachers to teach equally well any child between the ages of three and 12, and all teaching qualifications are designed so that successful students achieve the same standard for initial teacher education, so there is no reason why a new teacher should not be just as able as a more experienced teacher to motivate and inspire children in P1 to P3. In addition, it is up to headteachers to assign teachers to classes as they deem appropriate.

What steps is the Government taking to improve recruitment of teachers into rural areas, where there are occasionally difficulties in getting the required number of staff?

Maureen Watt:

I thank Nigel Don for his question. I am aware that some authorities have difficulty in recruiting teachers to some areas, which is why we asked the Scottish Further and Higher Education Funding Council to allocate more teacher training places to the Crichton and Aberdeen teacher training institutions so that we can ensure that perhaps more teachers go into training locally and are therefore likely to take up posts in their own area.


Pupil Support<br />(English as an Additional Language)

To ask the Scottish Executive what action it is taking to support school pupils who have English as an additional language. (S3O-4228)

The Minister for Children and Early Years (Adam Ingram):

As the member will be aware, the Scottish Government is investing record levels of funding in local government: £34.9 billion over the period 2008 to 2011. Education authorities have the flexibility to allocate the resources available to them to meet their local needs and priorities. That, of course, includes providing for pupils for whom English is an additional language.

In addition, we continue to encourage schools and colleges to work in partnership to meet the needs of learners. As part of our adult English for speakers of other languages strategy for Scotland, the Scottish Government and the Scottish Further and Higher Education Funding Council have recently allocated £2.7 million of additional funding to community learning and development partnerships and colleges, along with advice encouraging them to

"develop ESOL for families and actively link with schools"

as one of the key priorities.

Patrick Harvie:

I thank the minister for that. I acknowledge and welcome the work that he speaks of, and I support the move towards local flexibility in local government finance. However, certain duties have been imposed on local authorities by Parliament, the current Government and previous Governments, which increase the need for support for pupils for whom English is an additional language. There are also global trends that affect—month to month, let alone year to year—the level of need and the number of languages that a particular school or local authority may deal with. Is there a need to look in the longer term at how we can make resources available nationally for changing needs in changing circumstances?

Adam Ingram:

Patrick Harvie is correct that we have laid duties on local government in this regard through the Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Act 2004. He may be aware of what is happening in Glasgow: Glasgow City Council undertook a review of provision of teaching of English as an additional language and found that it did not meet the needs of children. Glasgow will not provide extra staff, but it will ensure that staff are deployed more efficiently by identifying the areas, schools and communities that need additional support, and it will direct resources towards them. Glasgow will increase, too, the training of such people. Additional training of teachers through continuing professional development programmes is being devised so that appropriate staff in every school can deal with the issue. We welcome the Glasgow action and would point it out to other local authorities.

Hugh O’Donnell (Central Scotland) (LD):

Does the minister agree that the number of teachers with additional language skills who come to Scotland as part of the fresh talent initiative should be monitored by either the Government or the General Teaching Council for Scotland, in order to assist in appropriate placement of such teachers? It appears—based on written answers from the minister—that neither the Government nor the GTC currently monitors teachers with additional language skills who come into the country through fresh talent.

I am certainly interested in taking up that suggestion. My colleague the Minister for Europe, External Affairs and Culture will certainly undertake to take that up.

Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab):

I note with interest the minister's comments on the additional funding that has been provided by the Scottish funding council. Will the minister supply further detail on how that money will be spread across local authorities in Scotland?

It is vital that we support families with young children attending school, and for whom English is not their first language, but I am also keen to know what support the minister believes local authorities should provide to ensure that children attending nursery are not left isolated and alone when so many other children do not speak their language.

Adam Ingram:

That was quite a number of questions. I certainly undertake to write to Karen Whitefield to provide detail on the whole range of what is happening.

Particularly with the ESOL funding and in the provision of support for speakers of other languages, it is very important that what we do is joined up. We can provide additional language education and training for children entering school, but sometimes that can leave families on the outside, as it were, looking in. We want to marry that up so that people coming in can engage with the education system, and so that parents can ensure that their children receive the best possible education. That is the purpose of what we are trying to do, but I will write to the member on the detail.


School Building Programme (Highland Council)

To ask the Scottish Executive when the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning last met Highland Council to discuss its school building programme. (S3O-4263)

I last met Highland Council in Inverness on 5 August. During that meeting, I had constructive discussions on a wide range of issues, including the school estate.

John Farquhar Munro:

I am sure that part of those discussions involved the Highland Council's single outcome agreement. What discussions have been held on school building so that, both in the area that I represent and elsewhere in Scotland, councils can be properly supported to continue projects of school building and refurbishment?

Fiona Hyslop:

We discussed issues regarding the current provision of school buildings and we reflected on the fact that an additional £115 million of capital has been allocated to local government each year for the next few years to help to support continuing education and school estates provision. I am pleased to see that Highland Council is using its share of the resources to invest £88 million over the next four years to provide improvements in the school estate.

Our discussion also reflected on the need to look further. In my answer to a parliamentary question last week, I announced the establishment of a working group on a school estates strategy that will report in the spring next year. That strategy will look to the longer term and will reflect the recommendations of the Audit Scotland report "Improving the school estate". I think that Highland Council and many other councils will welcome that as a step forward.

In my constituency, many schools such as Wick high school are in desperate need of replacement. When does the cabinet secretary expect the first school in the Highlands to be built through the Scottish Futures Trust?

Fiona Hyslop:

It is up to Highland Council to determine and decide on its own school building priorities. Only last week, I responded to a question from Jamie Stone on the situation with Wick high school. The fact is that the issue must be considered in the light of the longer-term agenda for school estate management. That said, I understand the concerns that have been expressed by parents and pupils about the condition of many of the schools, and we—and, indeed, the Audit Scotland report on school estates—acknowledge that we are only halfway towards our aim of restoring school buildings and ensuring that they are fit for purpose.

I look forward to engaging this afternoon not only with Highland Council but with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities on how we will take forward the school estates project and continue the school building programme. I am very pleased that under this Administration 250 schools will be either built or under construction. We should certainly mark the benefit of that to 100,000 pupils.


School Buildings (Renewal)

To ask the Scottish Government what progress is being made on renewing school buildings. (S3O-4214)

The Minister for Schools and Skills (Maureen Watt):

The school building programme continues apace, with the Government and authorities putting £2 billion between them into schools infrastructure.

Since May 2007, seven school projects comprising 45 schools have reached financial close and a further four are in the pipeline. Combined, the projects have a capital value of £1 billion and are financially supported by decisions of this Scottish National Party Government.

In order to secure investment in schools and other infrastructure we are, under the current local government settlement, providing local authorities with almost £3 billion of capital resources over three years, which represents an increase of £115 million for this and the next two years. Our infrastructure investment plan shows that, over the next five years, £1 billion will be invested in large-scale schools projects alone. As the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning has just said, we expect during the life of the Parliament to deliver 250 schools, which will benefit 100,000 pupils.

We will also consider the future of the school estate through the development of a new school estate strategy and the Scottish Futures Trust.

Michael McMahon:

I thank the minister for her very detailed response. However, I must point out that, like the Government's previous responses and claims, it causes confusion about the exact number of schools that this Government has been entirely responsible for building. Therefore, in an effort to remove any doubt, I ask the minister to tell us the number of schools that this Government is entirely responsible for initiating, starting, beginning, commencing or instigating—call it what you will—and which were not already being built under capital programmes in local authorities and had not been negotiated by the previous Government. When can we expect one of these schools to be built?

I remind the member that local authorities commission and build schools. Anything that has been produced, planned, built or completed since May 2007 has been paid for by this Government.

Michael McMahon asked about the number of schools that had been entirely paid for by the current Government. Of course, the Opposition forgets that the schools that were brought up under the previous Administration are not yet paid for.

Can we have a question please, Mr FitzPatrick.

What percentage of local authority budgets are committed to paying for the private finance initiative school renewal projects that were approved by the previous Administration?

Maureen Watt:

The full cost of repaying the 19 public-private partnership projects that reached financial close and were approved by the previous Administration up to May 2007 will be £107 million per annum. The previous Administration left only a budget of £100 million for the schools PPP projects. As a result, even for the projects that that Administration had approved, there was a funding shortfall that this Government has had to make good.

Rhona Brankin (Midlothian) (Lab):

Will the minister confirm that Midlothian Council has asked twice for a meeting to discuss the shocking condition of Lasswade high school in my constituency? Will she also confirm that during the school holidays the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning made a clandestine visit to the school about which the parents, teachers, pupils and local politicians were not informed and to which they were not invited? Why does the minister think the cabinet secretary is running scared of the community?

The cabinet secretary did visit schools in Midlothian during the summer—she is, after all, a Lothian regional member. I, too, have visited schools in Midlothian and have had recent correspondence on various issues with Midlothian councillors.


Minimum Income Guarantee (Students)

To ask the Scottish Executive what consideration it has given to the introduction of a minimum income guarantee for students. (S3O-4262)

The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Fiona Hyslop):

During the stage 3 debate on the Graduate Endowment Abolition (Scotland) Bill, I made a clear commitment to Parliament that the minimum income guarantee that the National Union of Students has proposed will be considered as part of the wider consultation on student support to be launched later this year.

Alison McInnes:

Given the relentless rise in food, energy and travel costs, student support is an even more pressing issue. However, the Scottish National Party has an unfortunate track record of letting students down. We have not forgotten the "Dump the Debt" posters that were plastered all over campuses before the election.

On page 58 of its draft budget document, which was published this week, the Government says that it will commit

"£30.0m for a phased transition from student loans to grants, starting with part-time students".

Will the cabinet secretary instead consider using that money and work with us to introduce a minimum income guarantee that will benefit students throughout Scotland?

Fiona Hyslop:

I thought that the member might have welcomed the fact that we will consult on the minimum income guarantee proposal as part of the wider consultation on student support.

The transition from loans to grants is being funded separately. Some £38 million has already been allocated to tackle that, and 20,000 part-time students can already benefit from it. The consultation that will take place later this year is on the £30 million that was referred to. As I have said, I made a commitment on considering the minimum income guarantee proposal as part of the wider consultation.

We have delivered for students. The abolition of the graduate endowment fee, which was a tax of more than £2,000 on education, has been warmly welcomed by students in Scotland.


Europe, External Affairs and Culture


Lewis Chessmen

To ask the Scottish Executive what further discussions it has had with relevant bodies regarding the Lewis chessmen. (S3O-4264)

The Minister for Europe, External Affairs and Culture (Linda Fabiani):

The Scottish Government thinks that it is unacceptable that only 11 of the Lewis chessmen are based in Scotland while the other 82 remain in London. We believe that our chessmen should be held in the country in which they were discovered.

I discussed the chessmen when I visited the British Museum in January this year, but have been disappointed by its apparent lack of responsiveness to continuing that dialogue. However, I have managed to secure a meeting with the director of the British Museum on Monday, 6 October. I hope that our discussion will be constructive.

I am sure that the member will be interested to know that there have been positive operational discussions between the British Museum and the National Museums of Scotland about potential future exhibitions of the chessmen in Scotland and future collaboration on research. The National Museums of Scotland is also considering activities involving the chessmen for the year of homecoming in 2009.

Hugh O'Donnell:

I thank the minister for her comprehensive and detailed response.

Does the position on the Lewis chessmen that has been outlined reflect the Scottish Government's general policy on repatriating artefacts? Does the minister have a list of items that are held in Scottish collections that she proposes to return to their original homes? Does she support the return of the Elgin marbles to the people of Greece?

Linda Fabiani:

Every case should be considered on its own merits. The case for the Lewis chessmen is particularly strong, and there is no reason whatsoever why, under the current United Kingdom settlement, the British Museum should not return the chessmen to the national museum of Scotland. Of course, come independence, how such things are dealt with will change.

Alasdair Allan (Western Isles) (SNP):

A dh'fhaighneachd do Riaghaltas na h-Alba dè na planaichean a tha aige airson leigeil le taisbeanadh-siubhail de na fir-tàileisg Leòdhais a dhol air adhart ann an Leòdhas, am measg àitean eile.

To ask the Scottish Government what plans it has to allow the exhibition of the Lewis chessmen on the Isle of Lewis, among other places.

Linda Fabiani:

That is, of course, an operational matter for the National Museums of Scotland. There is on-going constructive dialogue with the national museum of Scotland and museums throughout our nation on how we can use our collections to best advantage. I have no doubt whatsoever that agreement will be reached between the national museum of Scotland and Lewis so that Lewis's legacy can be properly displayed through the homecoming season.

Ted Brocklebank (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):

Does the minister accept that it would be more accurate to describe those iconic figures as the Norwegian, rather than the Lewis, chessmen, given that they were carved in Norway by Norwegian craftsmen and apparently ended up on the west coast of Lewis by accident? Does she agree that if they are removed from the British Museum, they should be returned to their country of origin—Norway?

Research is on-going on that and not every expert agrees with Mr Brocklebank's contention. However, the chessmen certainly marched out of the sea and landed at Uig, and that is where they should be.


Paintings (National Collections)

To ask the Scottish Government what steps are being taken to secure paintings on loan to the National Galleries of Scotland for permanent display in the national collections. (S3O-4241)

The Minister for Europe, External Affairs and Culture (Linda Fabiani):

Objects that are on loan to the national collections are subject to specific loan agreements between the owners and the national collections. Although that is an operational matter for the national collections, the Scottish Government provides annual funding for the collections' acquisition programme and considers requests for additional funding for major acquisitions.

Rob Gibson:

I thank the minister for that reasoned answer. Although the national collections are governed by strict rules that were established long before devolution, they have nevertheless made appeals to the Government and the public when on-loan artworks have been threatened with removal from public display. Will the minister review the national collections' relationship with the Scottish Government and make it fit for the display and maintenance of our public art collections in all their undiminished splendour? As a nation that aspires to independence, can we not have a modern structure and organisation for museums that allows us to retain works of art in Scotland?

Linda Fabiani:

The member is right that many major artworks and artefacts have been saved for the nation in recent years, including Botticelli's Virgin, Titian's Venus, the John Murray archive and the Kelvingrove Spitfire. We must always ensure that we retain the arm's-length relationship with our galleries and museums, but I see no reason why we cannot enter into dialogue on the issue, to provide clarity for the people who are obviously concerned about it.


Creative Scotland (Costs)

To ask the Scottish Executive when it will publish the latest estimates it has received of the costs of establishing creative Scotland. (S3O-4225)

The Minister for Europe, External Affairs and Culture (Linda Fabiani):

I am considering a paper from the joint board of the Scottish Arts Council and Scottish Screen on potential transition costs. The costs of establishing creative Scotland will be made public when they are submitted to the Parliament through the proposed public services reform bill's financial memorandum.

David Stewart:

The minister will be well aware of the important role of film location work in the Highlands and Islands, particularly given the background of "Monarch of the Glen" and "Highlander" to the Harry Potter films, and of the substantial spin-offs that the work creates through film tourism and the boost to the local economy. Will she give an assurance that not one brass farthing will be taken away from film location and promotion budgets to pay for creative Scotland's setting-up costs?

Linda Fabiani:

Creative Scotland will be the coming together of the Scottish Arts Council and Scottish Screen, which is Scotland's film agency. The joint board is discussing all those issues. Right at the forefront of its intention is to give maximum benefit to artists and creators in Scotland. I have faith that that is what the joint board will do.

I ask the minister to answer the specific question that was asked. Will the set-up costs for creative Scotland be deducted from the operational grant funds that are available to artistic and creative bodies?

Linda Fabiani:

As was reported to the Education, Lifelong Learning and Culture Committee when the issue was discussed previously, the Scottish Arts Council and Scottish Screen have set aside about £1 million from their combined grant-in-aid towards the costs of transition. We have said that, if the costs are greater, the Government will look at that.


Creative Scotland (Recruitment)

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it anticipates difficulties with starting the recruitment process for the new board and chief executive of creative Scotland in advance of the parliamentary process. (S3O-4185)

The Minister for Europe, External Affairs and Culture (Linda Fabiani):

No, I foresee no difficulties. I will identify a new chair for the company shortly and, when it is established and the chair and board of directors are in place, I will of course ask them to discuss with me their plans for the appointment of a chief executive.

Bill Aitken:

The minister will be painfully aware of the history of the matter. The bill fell at stage 1 because she was unable to satisfy the Parliament about the validity of the financial memorandum. Does she agree that it would be extremely difficult for candidates to judge whether they wish to be considered for jobs on the new body when they do not know what funding powers creative Scotland will have?

Linda Fabiani:

Two committees of the Parliament agreed to the bill coming before Parliament, and although the general principles of the bill were agreed to, the financial memorandum was not. I am aware of that, but I am also aware of what I see as confusion among the Opposition parties.

No. It was the minister who was confused.

Linda Fabiani:

I do not think so—the member should look at the record.

There is a precedent, which is why I do not foresee the problems that Bill Aitken foresees. The previous Administration set up Bòrd na Gàidhlig as a company limited by guarantee. In December 2002, it appointed a chair, and in January 2003 it established the company. It did not introduce the Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill until 2004.

Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab):

The Government maintained absolute silence on the issue in the statement on the legislative programme and in the long document on the legislative programme. Will the minister tell us why she is reintroducing presumably all the sections of the Creative Scotland Bill in a public services reform bill rather than reintroducing the Creative Scotland Bill? Is it not the case that, even without changing standing orders, which may well have been possible, she could have proceeded to the stage 1 debate on the Creative Scotland Bill in December? Given the route she has chosen, goodness knows when Parliament will have the opportunity to discuss the matter again. It would be helpful if she would enlighten us on that final point.

Linda Fabiani:

It was obvious that the parliamentary programme was full. The previous Administration started talking about the issue as far back as 2004, with its Cultural Commission. We owed it to the sector to act quickly, and that is what we have done. The issue will come before Parliament in the public services reform bill to be introduced at the beginning of next year.

Iain Smith (North East Fife) (LD):

Given the all-party support for the principle of setting up creative Scotland, does the minister agree that it would have been better if she had discussed the way forward for creating creative Scotland with all the parties in the Parliament rather than going behind the Parliament's back by the route that she has chosen?

I did not see the Liberals jumping up and down when their partners in coalition did the same thing with Bòrd na Gàidhlig.


Artists (Support)

To ask the Scottish Executive what additional Government support is planned for artists during the remainder of this session of the Parliament. (S3O-4183)

The Minister for Europe, External Affairs and Culture (Linda Fabiani):

We have increased our budget for culture by 14 per cent in cash terms over three years, from £238 million in 2007-08 to £272 million. That is an extra £34 million for cultural activity, including artists. It includes £6 million over three years to deliver our manifesto commitment to the Edinburgh festival expo fund, which promotes Scottish productions and talent, and £1.8 million for culture through cashback for communities, which comes from the proceeds of crime. We will shortly make a further announcement on cashback for communities.

Derek Brownlee:

I am sure that the Government has, if nothing else, provided a rich vein of activities for artists to draw on. One thing that it does not seem to be intent on doing is delivering on its commitment to introduce a limited tax exemption for artists. If it is right in principle to introduce such a tax exemption for income tax, would it not also be right in principle to do so for local income tax?

Linda Fabiani:

Our manifesto included pledges to broaden the range of funding options available to artists and a grant scheme equivalent to a tax exemption. We are now working with the creative Scotland transition team to develop firm proposals. The innovation fund of £5 million, which I announced in June, will be available in creative Scotland's first two years to support new ideas.

In his budget response to the United Kingdom Chancellor of the Exchequer in May this year, John Swinney, the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth, asked for the Scottish Parliament to be passed additional competence so that we can, through the income tax system, achieve a limited exemption for artists resident and working in Scotland.

Ian McKee (Lothians) (SNP):

Does the minister agree that with full financial powers a Scottish Government would be better able to offer a scheme of tax relief to support Scottish artists? In the absence of those powers, will she ensure that all young artists and art businesses secure the small business bonus to which they are entitled?

Linda Fabiani:

I have no doubt that if the Scottish Government had full financial powers, we would be able to offer greater support to our artistic community. However, that does not alter the Scottish Government's view that support for young artists and arts businesses is an extremely important aspect of funding. I have asked the creative Scotland transition team to include such support in its broader examination of future funding models for the sector.


World Heritage Status (Edinburgh)

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it has given consideration to the consequences of the possible withdrawal of Edinburgh's world heritage status. (S3O-4229)

The Minister for Europe, External Affairs and Culture (Linda Fabiani):

We believe that the management of all the world heritage sites in Scotland complies with the requirements of the world heritage convention. We will, nevertheless, consider carefully any comments that the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization makes following the forthcoming mission.

Robin Harper:

This is all to do with the letter from the Cockburn Association regarding the planning applications for the Caltongate development in Edinburgh and their possible consequences. I believe that ministers are considering—not at this very moment, but presently—whether to call in the applications. I am glad that they are giving the matter that consideration. Does the minister see any merit in meeting representatives of the world heritage organisation and UNESCO while the situation continues?

As Mr Harper says, the applications are currently before ministers for consideration, so it would be inappropriate for me to comment on the merits or details of the proposals or to meet anyone who has a particular locus in the matter.

Aileen Campbell (South of Scotland) (SNP):

My region in the South of Scotland boasts the world heritage site of New Lanark, which the minister knows well and visited last year. Does she agree that we should be proud of our world heritage sites? How much importance does she place on, and what role does she see for, sites such as the one at New Lanark in the year of homecoming next year?

Linda Fabiani:

We should be very proud of our world heritage sites, such as those in Orkney, New Lanark and Edinburgh's old and new towns. They have a great role to play in the year of homecoming next year. The Antonine wall is the most recent site to gain world heritage site status, and many people in the Parliament and in local authorities worked very hard to secure that status. We should celebrate those sites, and I can think of no better time to celebrate them in than the year of homecoming.

Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab):

Given that the largest part of the Edinburgh world heritage site is in my constituency and that its status as such is highly valued, will the minister do everything possible—including meeting UNESCO representatives—to protect Edinburgh as a world heritage site? Will she also consider calling in any planning applications that threaten the site's status?

Linda Fabiani:

Ministers and the City of Edinburgh Council invited UNESCO to arrange the mission and visit here. Historic Scotland, on behalf of ministers, will take the lead and work closely with all key stakeholders.

It is worth saying that monitoring missions are routine for UNESCO when there is a question about possible threats to a world heritage site. They are aimed at helping the management of the site. Bath also has a mission this year, and Liverpool and London have recently been visited by UNESCO and experts from the International Council on Monuments and Sites.

Planning applications must be determined by taking account of all the relevant issues, including, where appropriate, any potential impact on a world heritage site. We are always aware of those issues because, as I said, our world heritage sites are precious to us and we wish to both celebrate and maintain them.


Traditional Arts

To ask the Scottish Executive what discussions have taken place or are planned between the Scottish Arts Council and the Scottish Traditions of Dance Trust and other traditional arts organisations. (S3O-4222)

The Minister for Europe, External Affairs and Culture (Linda Fabiani):

The Scottish Arts Council has informed me that it held a number of discussions earlier this year with traditional and other arts organisations that have been affected by the council's flexible funding decisions, including informal discussions with the Scottish Traditions of Dance Trust in May. I met some of those organisations earlier this month.

I understand from the Scottish Arts Council that it plans to write next week to all organisations that were affected by the flexible funding decisions and to meet them after the next board meeting on 25 September. I also understand that the SAC met the traditional music forum to begin to explore the wider strategic questions around the support and development of the traditional music sector in Scotland.

That is welcome. How will the minister ensure that the strategic issues review deals with the real funding issues in relation to the traditional arts, dance and the Scots language? How will she monitor the situation?

Linda Fabiani:

The Government is committed to the retention and promotion of our traditional arts and languages in Scotland. That is one reason why I commissioned the first ever audit of Scots language provision. We should get the results next month.

Arts development managers at the Scottish Arts Council have drafted for submission to the joint board meeting on 25 September a paper that reports on all the outstanding strategic issues following the fallout from the flexible funding decisions and offers possible solutions to the strategic issues.

In previous years, the Scottish Arts Council budget contained ring-fenced funding for the traditional arts. That stopped in 2006, when funding for the sector was mainstreamed. I have undertaken to consider the matter and to work with the Scottish Arts Council and creative Scotland to ensure that we protect our traditional arts. It should not be taken from my exchange with Cathy Peattie today that no traditional arts are funded in Scotland. That is not the case. Some organisations were disappointed by the flexible funding decisions, but the Scottish Arts Council has undertaken to meet them and discuss the matter further.

We have a vibrant traditional arts scene in Scotland and we want to maintain, enhance and promote it. I am sure that members of all parties in the Parliament will work together to do that.