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Chamber and committees

Plenary, 17 Jun 1999

Meeting date: Thursday, June 17, 1999


Contents


Question Time

The Presiding Officer (Sir David Steel):

The first item of business this afternoon is question time. As this is our first question time, I shall take a couple of minutes to explain the procedure, particularly for those members who have come from somewhere else, because the procedure is different.

I will take questions in the order in which they are printed in the business bulletin. The member who lodged the question will ask the question without departing from the terms as published in the bulletin. The relevant minister will then provide an answer. The member who asked the question may ask a supplementary and may, at my discretion, ask a further supplementary, but no other member may ask a supplementary question during question time until we come to open question time in half an hour. I will explain the procedure of open question time then.

I call George Lyon to ask the first question.


SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE


Caledonian MacBrayne

It is an honour to have the first question in this Parliament and it is on a subject that is important to the constituency— The Presiding Officer: I did say without deviation from the printed version.

I thought that you would allow me an exception, as this is the first question.

To ask the Scottish Executive what its long-term investment strategy will be for Caledonian MacBrayne. (S1O-44)

Our strategy is to ensure that CalMac has a forward capital investment programme in vessels and shore infrastructure that is both affordable and sufficient to secure the future of lifeline ferry services off the west coast of Scotland.

George Lyon:

I would also like to ask where the Deloitte & Touche report that has existed in draft form since March 1998 is. The report examined CalMac service provision on the Clyde and took into consideration the future of Dunoon pier. When can we expect the report's recommendations to be made public? More important, when can the local communities have some consultation on that report and have full knowledge of what the future

of the Clyde services is likely to be?

Sarah Boyack:

The Deloitte & Touche report was commissioned by the previous Conservative Administration. When the Labour Government came to power, it examined the recommendations in the report and requested that further work be carried out. I understand that that work has recently been received. The Scottish Executive intends shortly to make the reports available for consultation. I hope that all those with an interest will comment at that stage.


Farming

2. Alex Johnstone (North-East Scotland) (Con):

To ask the Scottish Executive what its immediate priorities will be to stimulate recovery in the Scottish farming industry. (S1O-14) The Minister for Rural Affairs (Ross Finnie): The Executive is committed to supporting and enhancing the rural economy, and agriculture is an important and integral part of that strategy. My firm objective is to develop an approach to the agriculture sector in Scotland that results in its long-term sustainability.

Alex Johnstone:

The Scottish agriculture industry is in a bad condition at the moment. We have heard proposals from a number of parties, and they are contained within the partnership agreement, for the introduction of an appeals procedure through which any disputes concerning European support can be dealt with. Does the minister have any plans to bring forward early proposals to deal with that matter?

Ross Finnie:

We are looking hard at that matter. We have examined a number of schemes. The aim of the Executive is, if we can, to bring forward proposals that are as simple as possible. However, I advise Alex Johnstone that we have to ensure that we comply with the European convention on human rights provisions. I can assure him that this matter is receiving my urgent attention.


Further and Higher Education

3. Marilyn Livingstone (Kirkcaldy) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive if it will inform the Parliament of the provision it intends to make as a result of the comprehensive spending review for an increase in grant to further and higher education over the next three years. (S1O-47) The Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Henry McLeish): Further and higher education in Scotland is to receive a massive boost over the period covered by the comprehensive spending review. In total, the FE and HE budgets will receive an additional £493 million over the period to support further increases in student numbers, promote wider access, modernise and improve quality and improve standards.

On the question of widening access, has any provision been made to give priority to the needs of the most vulnerable and those in our communities who feel excluded?

Henry McLeish:

Yes, because as part of the expansion of funding in higher and further education we want to widen access. In particular, we want to focus on those groups that need special assistance. The disabled students allowance, for example, is paid to eligible students in higher education who, as a result of their disability, face extra costs in attending their course. We are also using access funds to tackle particular problems that students face. The total provided for access in 1998-99 was £8.76 million. As part of the partnership agreement between Labour and the Liberal Democrats, that will be increased to £14 million in 2001-02. This is a priority area to which the Executive is giving its full attention.


Football Development

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will make a statement on the development of the Scottish football partnership to encourage the development of talented young footballers in Scotland. (S1O-27)

The Deputy Minister for Culture and Sport (Rhona Brankin):

I chaired the inaugural meeting of the football partnership on Monday 14 June. The partnership set up a task force to draw up detailed proposals and report back by the end of October. Our aim is to help Scotland's national teams and top clubs to compete successfully on the international stage, through the development of our native talent.

Allan Wilson:

I am sure that everyone in this chamber shares the Scottish football partnership's objectives and wishes it well in its deliberations. Can we be assured that as well as developing coaching expertise, important as that is, the task force will consider proposals to develop indoor and other all-weather facilities for our football academies, on the Scandinavian model? Such facilities would provide year-round opportunities for Scottish kids to improve their skills and end the game's expensive reliance on foreign players, many of them of Scandinavian origin.

I am aware that Norway has invested heavily in indoor and all-weather facilities, and that it has had some recent success. This is a key area that the football partnership and the football task force will examine.


Pre-school Education

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it intends to implement a range of pre-school initiatives relating to nurseries, day nurseries and playgroups. (S1O56)

We expect that universal provision of pre-school education for three-year-olds, from a range of providers and supported by a range of measures to guarantee quality, will be achieved in 2002.

Scott Barrie:

I welcome my party's commitment to nursery provision for all three-year-olds whose parents want it, but some concern has been expressed that that will mean the end of playgroup provision. Will the minister join me in hoping that local authorities and voluntary sector providers will work in partnership to provide services to all pre-school children?

Peter Peacock:

I recognise the close interest that Scott Barrie takes in this matter. I know that from his experience in social work he will be well aware of the different attributes that different providers can bring to nursery education. We are very clear about wanting to have the voluntary and independent sectors actively involved, alongside local authority provision. As Scott Barrie is aware, that is a matter for local authorities, which are responsible for the detailed prior provision that we fully expect. I am confident that they, too, will want an appropriate mix of provision.


Schools (Books and Equipment)

6. Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive how much it intends will be spent in total on new books and equipment for schools in Scotland over the next three years. (S1O-30) The Minister for Children and Education (Mr Sam Galbraith): Over the next two years an additional £21 million will be allocated for investment in books and equipment, including new technology, in schools. That is on top of the existing spending by local authorities on books and equipment in schools, which in recent years has been around £50 million per year.

Karen Gillon:

Is the minister aware that I visited Forth primary school in my constituency on Monday this week to see at first hand new books and equipment that the school has received? Both staff and pupils expressed their great desire to see more of the money to which the minister refers. Can he give an indication of how much the extra money will amount to per pupil, and when it is likely to come through to schools?

Mr Galbraith:

I am delighted that Karen has already visited some of the schools in her constituency. I hope that that will be the pattern for all members, so that they can see the commitment of teachers and the high quality of our schools. On average, the additional money will come to about £8,000 per school and £24 per pupil. That is a large sum and one that will, I know, be welcomed not only by this chamber but by all the teachers, pupils and parents involved.


Drug Treatment Programmes

7. Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD):

To ask the Scottish Executive what plans it has to increase the provision of drug treatment programmes in Scotland in the next year. (S1O-8) The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon): The provision of drug treatment will be at the heart of the Executive's strategy for dealing with drugs. Spending on drug treatment will be boosted by £6 million over the next three years, bringing annual spending to £11.3 million.

Mr Raffan:

Does the minister share my serious concern—and that of members from all parties— about the shortage of treatment programmes in Scotland, particularly in certain health board areas such as Fife and Forth Valley, in my constituency of Mid Scotland and Fife? Does she share my concern about the shortage of residential rehabilitation beds? There are only 10 residential treatment centres in Scotland, with 120 beds. What will she do to increase the number of treatment programmes and centres as well as to learn from the best drug treatment practice in the United States?

Susan Deacon:

Most members would share Mr Raffan's concern about the need to tackle drugs effectively. We are provided with a great opportunity to do that in this Parliament. There is growing evidence that effective treatment and rehabilitation can have a real impact. We are also committed to building on best practice where it exists, and to dealing with drugs as part of a much wider strategy that includes enforcement and, crucially, prevention: how to avoid people becoming addicted in the first place. We will work together across different departments of the Scottish Executive to ensure that we develop a comprehensive strategy to tackle the issue.

The minister's reply causes me slight concern. There is a need for the reallocation of resources in the total budget to tackle drug misuse.

Mr Raffan, you must ask a supplementary.

Is Susan Deacon committed to a reallocation of resources from prevention, detection and the courts to treatment and rehabilitation, which has by far the smaller share of the budget at the moment?

Susan Deacon:

As I indicated in my first

answer, there is a real commitment by this Executive to treatment. I indicated that significant additional resources are going towards that. It would, however, be wrong to suggest that treatment should be at the expense of investment and action to tackle prevention. By definition, if we reduce the level of addiction, we will be required to devote fewer resources to treatment and rehabilitation. We could probably reach agreement in this chamber on tackling some of the root causes which lead people to drug addiction in the first place.


Representative Office (Brussels)

8. Hugh Henry (Paisley South) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive when it believes that the Scottish representative office will open in Brussels. (S1O-32) The Minister for Finance (Mr Jack McConnell): The Scottish representative office will open for business on 1 July and will be officially opened in the autumn, when the EU institutions return from their summer break.

Hugh Henry:

Will the Scottish representative office advance Scotland's case in Europe? The minister may know that there has been much excitement among many European institutions at the formation of this Parliament, and that a very strong Scottish partnership is already in evidence in Brussels. Scotland Europa represents the private, local government, voluntary, academic and other sectors. Will the Scottish Representative Office be available to support that strong, effective partnership?

Mr McConnell:

Scotland Europa has done a tremendous job representing Scotland's interests in Europe since it began in 1992. We hope that a strong partnership will develop in the years ahead between Scotland House and Scotland Europa. To assist that partnership, I have written to Scotland's new MEPs, to congratulate them and to invite them to meet me to discuss how they can help us promote Scotland's interests in Europe.


Pre-school Education

9. Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it intends to increase the number of nursery places available for three-year-olds. (S1O-57) The Deputy Minister for Children and Education (Peter Peacock): We expect 60 per cent of all three-year-olds who wish a pre-school place to have one by next session. By 2002, every three-year-old who wishes a place will have one available.

Bristow Muldoon:

As a representative of a West Lothian constituency, where nursery provision for four-year-olds is already highly developed, I welcome the minister's statement. Can he comment on the impact that he expects the increase in the number of places for three- year-olds to have on educational attainment levels and on social justice?

Peter Peacock:

I acknowledge, from conversations that I have had with him, Mr Muldoon's close interest in pre-school education. It is very much part of the Executive's strategy, not just for children but for families and whole communities. It contributes to building an innovative, compassionate, confident and inclusive society. Getting the foundations for education correct and improving attainment from the earliest years is a vital part of our programme. That is one of the reasons why we are seeking this dramatic expansion of provision for three-year-olds.


Gaelic-medium Education

10. Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive what plans it has to develop Gaelic-medium education. (S1O-33) The Deputy Minister for Highlands and Islands and Gaelic (Mr Alasdair Morrison): We will be supporting Gaelic-medium education at all levels. We have ring-fenced £300,000 this year for the expansion of Gaelic pre-school education and next year we will be increasing grants for Gaelic education to £2.6 million.

Will the minister examine the funding for local development officers working for Comhairle nan Sgoiltean Araich to see if the method of funding can be improved?

Mr Morrison:

I acknowledge Ms Macmillan's commitment to the Gaelic language and its further development. We regularly discuss with Comhairle nan Sgoiltean Araich their programme and achievements and I am due to meet them in the next few weeks. Most of the development officers are funded by government grant and local authorities contribute in some cases. I am aware of the difficulty in Highland and I hope that it will be resolved by the usual means of constructive discussion.


Long-term Care

11. Kay Ullrich (West of Scotland) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it intends to implement the recommendations of the royal commission on long-term care which fall under its competence. (S1O-51) The Deputy Minister for Community Care (Iain Gray): We are considering our response to the recommendations of the royal commission on long-term care relating to social work, health and housing.

Kay Ullrich:

I am particularly concerned about support for Scotland's half a million carers. Their caring services save the public purse over £3.5 billion a year. The minister will be aware that in February this year a ring-fenced sum of £140 million of new money was given to local authorities in England specifically to provide respite care. Will the minister give a commitment to an equivalent ring-fenced package of new money for carers in Scotland?

Iain Gray:

I am grateful to Mrs Ullrich for raising this matter. The position of carers is something to which we give great importance, and she will know that I launched Carers Week last week and that I undertook a number of engagements during that week. Over the next three years, £5 million is earmarked in Scotland for increasing respite care to help carers in the task that they undertake. It is important that respite services are provided in ways that meet local needs. I am working with officials in the local authorities so that we can ascertain at the end of the year that the money has been used to increase the respite care available.

Kay Ullrich:

I hope for the sake of Scotland's elderly and their carers that I am not hearing the sound of dragging feet. I am asking about the equivalent to the £140 million of ring-fenced new money that was given in England. The £5 million the minister talks about is not ring-fenced and it is not new money. Will he address my question?

Iain Gray:

I have explained to Mrs Ullrich that it is a prime concern that the £5 million over each of the next three years is used to increase respite services to help carers. I have already begun the process of ensuring that we will be able to ascertain that with the local authorities.


Victims of Crime

12. Mrs Mary Mulligan (Linlithgow) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it intends to bring forward plans to support, and keep informed, victims of crime who are required to appear in court in Scotland. (S1O-41) The Lord Advocate (Lord Hardie): While much support is already available for victims of crime, the Executive will consider how services to meet victims' needs for information and support can be further developed.

Mrs Mulligan:

Given that many victims go to branches of Victim Support Scotland, which is staffed mainly by volunteers, will there be additional resources for the umbrella organisation to ensure that it can develop support groups throughout the whole of Scotland?

The Lord Advocate:

Funding for Victim Support Scotland has increased from £1.5 million last year to £1.7 million this year; the average grant in

Scotland per victim is three times higher than that in England and Wales. Bids for next year will be assessed on their merits and in the light of the Executive's spending priorities.


Bed Blocking

13. Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it has any plans to ensure that the division of responsibilities between local authorities and the national health service for the delivery of health- related social services does not result in bed blocking in the future. (S1O-38) The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon): The Executive is committed to more efficient and effective joint working, based on partnership between local authorities, the national health service and the voluntary sector. The Executive will now take forward the plans that are set out in "Modernising community care: an action plan", which was published in October.

Mary Scanlon:

I am pleased to hear that there will be greater integration. It has been flagged up to me that there is likely to be a serious crisis over the millennium, with an expected increase in accident and emergency cases at a time when the number of NHS admissions is higher. Compounded with bed blocking, those are serious concerns. Will they be addressed by the end of the year?

Susan Deacon:

Mrs Scanlon raises a number of important issues, and I will try to address a few of them briefly. Additional winter funding has already been channelled in to ensure that winter crises do not arise. There is, however, no quick fix to the problem of bed blocking. Some imaginative and effective work has recently been done locally, which has started to resolve the problems, regarding both the people who are concerned and the effective use of resources. I am keen for us to use the opportunity that this Parliament has to build on those examples and ensure that that success spreads throughout the country.


Roads (Aberdeen)

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it intends to act to expedite the building of the western peripheral route round Aberdeen. (S1O-12)

The Minister for Transport and the Environment (Sarah Boyack):

The western peripheral route around Aberdeen is a proposal that is being promoted by Aberdeen City Council and Aberdeenshire Council. They will have the opportunity, in submitting their local transport strategies to the Scottish Executive next month, to explain how that route would contribute to an integrated transport strategy for the area.

Brian Adam:

I note that the minister believes that the primary responsibility belongs to the two local authorities. Will she confirm whether the Executive has plans for extensive de-trunking of the network, whether any such plans might have implications for the funding of the proposed route, and whether the Executive has plans to help with the funding of that route?

Sarah Boyack:

We have no plans for the trunk road programme that would directly affect the western peripheral route around Aberdeen. The transport bill will provide the opportunity for local authorities, with the approval of the Scottish Executive, to bring forward road-user charging schemes where appropriate and where they would fit in with their local transport strategies.


Lockerbie

15. Roseanna Cunningham (Perth) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive what plans it has to discuss with the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs the administration of the trial of those accused in the Lockerbie air disaster. (S1O-63) The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Justice (Mr Jim Wallace): The administration of the trial is a matter for the High Court of Justiciary. Security and facilities at the site are being provided by the Scottish Court Service, the Scottish Prison Service, and Dumfries and Galloway constabulary with the assistance of other forces.

Roseanna Cunningham:

The minister will recall that, when the issue was raised in the other place, we were frequently assured that the matter of a third-country trial was not just a devolved issue but one that concerned the Foreign Office. Has he considered approaching the Foreign Office for a contribution towards the enormous cost of the trial—which I am sure he would not want to be funded entirely from the public purse—if indeed the Foreign Office has responsibility in the matter?

Mr Wallace:

I am pleased to be able to give Ms Cunningham an answer that I hope she will find satisfactory. It has been agreed that the agreed capital costs will be met fully by the reserve and not by the Scottish block. Eighty per cent of current costs will be met by the reserve and 20 per cent by the Scottish block. That reflects the fact that, had the trial been held in Scotland, its costs would have been met by the Scottish block.


Homelessness

To ask the Scottish Executive what measures it intends to propose to deal with the record and climbing levels of homelessness in Scotland. (S1O-58) The Minister for Communities (Ms Wendy

Alexander):

The green paper on housing, published earlier this year, proposed a review of homelessness in Scotland. I am pleased to be able to announce today that we will establish a review through a steering group led by Jackie Baillie, the Deputy Minister for Social Inclusion, Equality and the Voluntary Sector.

Fiona Hyslop:

Although I welcome the homelessness review, it is no excuse for the lack of a housing bill in the legislative programme proposed by the Executive. Will the task force for the review report to the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee and be accountable to it?

Ms Alexander:

On the homelessness review, I can certainly give an undertaking that there will be wide consultation in Scotland. On Fiona Hyslop's wider point, I am happy to say that this Administration is wholly committed to legislation on housing. As she knows, the consultation period for the green paper closed only a matter of days ago. When I met housing organisations in Scotland this morning, they were delighted that there would be a period to consider the responses and then the opportunity to use the innovative procedures that this Parliament has introduced, to consider how to take forward legislation.

Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):

On a point of order, Mr Presiding Officer. I asked the clerks whether I could lodge a question in today's meeting about the housing green paper. I was prevented from doing so, because that is still a matter for the Scottish Office. Can you tell me why the minister is referring to a housing green paper about which I was not allowed to ask a question?

We are in a grey area between the old regime and the new, and we must be tolerant. Members cannot ask about, and ministers should not answer on, subjects for which the Executive is not yet responsible.


Fire Service

17. Mr Lloyd Quinan (West of Scotland) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive what measures it intends to implement to protect fire service pensions in the light of the proposed review of the fire service in Scotland. (S1O-65) The Deputy Minister for Justice (Angus Mackay): The review of the service in Scotland is examining the structure of the fire service. It therefore has no implications for the fire service pension scheme.

Mr Quinan:

Why, then, has the Fire Brigades Union sent to all councillors in Scotland a document that refers to the fact that the Government wants to make changes to the grey book, which has been in force since the end of the

second world war as the basis of negotiations with the fire brigades? The union believes, on the basis of a Home Office document, "Fire Service Pensions Review: a Consultation Document", that the Government intends to make changes for new members of the fire service.

Can Mr Mackay assure me that new members of the fire service will not have reduced pension availability, unlike their colleagues who are currently serving? More important, I draw the minister's attention to the decision made at the Fire Brigades Union's conference on 11 May 1999:

"That this conference rejects the national employers' proposals as contained in their letters of 17 July 1998 and 22 March 1999 to alter the present conditions as contained within the national scheme of conditions of service. Conference therefore agrees"—

Order. You must ask a question, Mr Quinan. You cannot read out a long quotation in the middle of a question.

I simply want to know whether the minister will apply what Jack Straw, the Home Secretary, intends to apply: the withdrawal of the right to strike for members of the Fire Brigades Union if it implements the decision made at its conference.

Angus Mackay:

If I remember rightly the first supplementary question that was asked, no, I cannot explain why the Fire Brigades Union has issued the document to which Lloyd Quinan referred. However, I know how the confusion has arisen. The initial question was about the review of the structure of the fire service. The pension scheme is a separate matter, which is currently the subject of a consultation that is being carried out by UK ministers. It is an on-going consultation. When the report is published, the Scottish Executive will take a view of its own on fire pension schemes. If any changes were made to the fire pension scheme, current members would retain their existing rights and the new scheme would apply only to staff joining the fire service after the introduction of any new scheme.


Health Care

18. Mr Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive how it intends to promote patient-centred health care in Scotland. (S1O-60) The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon): Patient-centred health care is central to the vision of the Scottish Executive. We intend to continue to develop the recommendations set out in the white paper, "Designed to Care", published in December 1997, as part of our broad agenda to ensure that wherever patients make use of the NHS, they receive the highest quality of care.

I thank the minister for her answer and I welcome the Executive's commitment to patient-centred health care. Will she give me a specific illustration of how that care can be implemented?

Susan Deacon:

There are many different ways in which we can put the patient at the heart of the NHS. Some of them are highlighted in the partnership agreement, and they demonstrate how we can give patients the treatment that they need, when they need it and where they want it. They include our commitment to develop the number of one-stop clinics, the 24-hour telephone helpline, NHS Direct, and walk-in walk-out treatment centres. In addition to those services and facilities, we are committed to improving the information that patients get at all stages of their care, and the communication between the patient and the NHS. I am already in discussion with people in the service on how to take forward that agenda, and I will continue that over the next few months.