Plenary, 09 Mar 2000

Meeting date: Thursday, March 9, 2000

Official Report 640KB pdf

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Question Time

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SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE

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Health Service (Lanarkshire)

Thank you, Presiding Officer—I guess that you were away seeing off our guest.

To ask the Scottish Executive whether the recovery plan submitted by Lanarkshire Acute Hospitals NHS Trust proposes a change in the provision of clinical services. (S1O-1331)

Lanarkshire Acute Hospitals NHS Trust is forecasting to meet financial targets. The Scottish Executive does not, therefore, require the trust to submit a recovery plan.

I take it that the minister is guaranteeing that there will be no cuts in services in Lanarkshire. If that is the case, I very much welcome it.

Do you wish to respond, Ms Deacon?

No. Carry on.

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Anti-social Behaviour Orders

To ask the Scottish Executive how many anti-social behaviour orders have been issued in Glasgow and how many applications for such orders are currently before the courts. (S1O-1317)

I understand that two applications have been made for anti-social behaviour orders in Glasgow. There are currently no applications before the courts.

As a relatively low number of orders has been requested, does the minister consider that such orders continue to be a deterrent to those who might indulge in anti-social behaviour?

There is no doubt that the orders have a deterrent effect. Nine have been granted in other parts of Scotland, and we have commissioned the Chartered Institute of Housing to report on how those orders are operating in their first 12 months. We expect that report in the next few weeks, with information on how we can spread the use of anti-social behaviour orders more widely across Scotland.

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Business Innovation

To ask the Scottish Executive what steps are being taken to encourage innovation in Scotland's business community. (S1O-1323)

The Scottish Executive, along with the Department of Trade and Industry and the enterprise networks, have in place a wide range of business support schemes to encourage innovation through research and development, commercialisation of research, technology transfer, use of new technologies, and the spread of best practice.

The knowledge economy task force, chaired by Henry McLeish, is currently looking at business innovation in the context of a knowledge-based economy. A review is also currently under way of the enterprise networks, including their business support functions.

Does the minister think that further support is required for small innovative companies in the oil and gas sector, where technological innovation is acknowledged as being key to the continued global competitiveness of the sector in the North sea and the rest of the United Kingdom continental shelf? Will he discuss with the oil and gas operators, the enterprise networks, and anyone else with whom it might be appropriate to discuss it, how best to support small and medium enterprises with innovative products, to help them to attain full commercial viability?

I recognise the importance of the oil and gas industry to the whole of the UK, and especially to Scotland where it employs 7 per cent of the work force. I appreciate that we have great opportunities to capitalise on our world-leading skills; that was mentioned during the debate on manufacturing strategy this morning. I should be happy to take up the issue with the oil and gas division of Scottish Enterprise, and with others including the United Kingdom Offshore Operators Association. I should be happy to give further information in due course to Elaine Thomson and, if it is so wished, to the Parliament.

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Forth Crossing

To ask the Scottish Executive when it expects to be in a position to announce a starting date for the construction of the new crossing of the Forth at Kincardine and the eastern bypass at Kincardine. (S1O-1320)

The timetable for construction will depend on public reaction to the draft orders relating to those proposals and on the availability of funds. I expect to publish draft orders for the new crossing in the summer of 2001. If the current investigations prove that it is feasible to construct the eastern bypass in advance of the new bridge, draft orders for that road will be published towards the end of this year.

Will the minister do whatever she can to accelerate the timetable for this crucial project not only because it is key to the economic development of Clackmannanshire and west Fife, but because of the increasing and unacceptably high level of congestion and pollution in Kincardine and the higher than average level of asthma among the schoolchildren in that community? Is she prepared to attend a meeting of the west Fife villages forum to explain the current position?

It might help Mr Raffan to know that I met the chair and secretary of Kincardine Community Council to discuss precisely that matter. I am well aware of congestion problems in the village, and we are trying to make progress on the matter as quickly as possible, which is why I have asked officials to examine the issue of the eastern bypass. If we could do something about that, it would begin to tackle some of those congestion problems.

I thank the minister for her answers to Mr Raffan's questions and for the meeting that we had last week. Will she join me in congratulating Fife Council on its current investigations into easing the chronic road safety problems in the village by blocking off some of the more notorious rat-runs and improving the pedestrian crossing?

Yes, I also congratulate the council on its work on that matter. We are closely examining Fife Council's work and particularly the pelican crossing in Kincardine, which is the responsibility of the Scottish Executive. It is important to take a partnership approach to tackle the problems in the village.

What is the minister doing to expedite the construction of the western bypass at Aberdeen that starts in the other Kincardine further north?

No, no. Your question was a good try, but it is not in order.

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Care of the Elderly

To ask the Scottish Executive what progress is being made on the implementation of the recommendations of the report of the Royal Commission on Long-Term Care of the Elderly. (S1O-1297)

As I indicated in a debate in Parliament on 2 December, we have broadly accepted one of the two main recommendations and will consider the other during the present spending review. We are making considerable progress in implementing the other recommendations.

When will the Scottish Executive implement Sir Stewart Sutherland's recommendation that the costs of what he calls personal care of the elderly should be met by the state? Will the minister assure us that the Executive will not simply wait for Mr Blair's permission to do so, as any failure to implement that recommendation would be a gross betrayal of the generation of men and women who built our welfare state?

Mr Canavan's question purported to be about progress, but that is not the case. We have made progress on the Scottish commission for the regulation of care; on joint working between health and social services; and on the availability of direct payments to older people, which I hope will be introduced this year. We have also introduced the carers strategy. Those measures are all recommendations from the Sutherland report. I made this point last week, and I will make it again today: people who reduce the commission's report to a single recommendation which they then spin into a soundbite do the commission's work no service at all. We will consider the second main recommendation in the course of our current spending review.

As the minister might be aware, I have lodged a bill on this very issue. I refer him to a letter from Sir Stewart Sutherland, in which he says on the subject of the bill:

"You put the issue very well and have a very precise question to ask. Let's hope somebody can give a good answer to it!"

Will the minister support my bill?

It seems that that question was more about Sir Stewart Sutherland's letter than the Royal Commission on Long-Term Care of the Elderly. I am not sure which bill is being referred to, although—[Members: "Oh."] I believe that Christine Grahame's bill concerns dementia sufferers. I have considered it and have reached the conclusion that its terms would be impractical. None the less, we continue to support many measures to improve the care of people who suffer from dementia.

Question 6 has been withdrawn.

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Standards in Scotland's Schools etc Bill

To ask the Scottish Executive whether the Standards in Scotland's Schools etc Bill will not, in any circumstances, take precedence over the Race Relations Act 1976. (S1O-1349)

Ministers are bound by all UK statutes, and the Executive is not aware of anything in the proposed Standards in Scotland's Schools etc Bill which would take precedence over any UK statute.

Is the minister aware that in April to December 1999, in the Lothian and Borders area, there were 435 racially motivated incidents, an increase of 62 per cent on the 1998 figures? What steps does the minister intend to take to address the problem?

As the member knows, addressing that problem falls not only to me but to all ministers with responsibilities for all the portfolios of this Government. We—particularly my colleague the Deputy Minister for Communities, Jackie Baillie—have taken many steps to deal with the problem. The member can be assured of the Government's commitment to ensuring that everyone in our society, no matter their age, background, gender, class, creed or religion, is treated equally and with dignity and tolerance.

I welcome the minister's comments, but is he aware that when Morag Alexander of the Equal Opportunities Commission commented on the draft education bill, she gave the Executive a mark of one out of 10 for its attempts to promote equality in education? Does the minister concede that that is an area where there is room for improvement? Will he outline the specific initiatives that he is taking or intends to take to ensure that every child in Scotland, regardless of gender, race, age or economic background, enjoys equal access to educational opportunities?

I could talk about the inputs, which will start with one of the largest increases in education expenditure ever; the fact that 90 per cent of four-year-olds and 60 per cent of three-year-olds now get pre-school education; family centres; early intervention; or the 800 extra teachers and 1,500 classroom assistants. I could go on and on, but Sir David would quite rightly pull me up for it. Those measures are just the start of the answer to the question. I have much more to say.

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Planning Legislation

To ask the Scottish Executive what guidance is available to local communities in relation to planning legislation. (S1O-1345)

The Scottish Executive publishes national planning policy guidelines, planning advice notes and circulars. Those are available free of charge on request and most are now on the planning home page on the Scottish Executive website. The Executive also operates a planning helpline. In addition, most local authorities make available booklets and leaflets.

I thank the minister for that comprehensive answer. Given the importance of the planning process to local people in developing sustainable communities, particularly in rural areas, and the difficulties that people often face in obtaining appropriate advice and information, will the minister consider conducting an audit of best practice among planning authorities in Scotland and producing a readable guide to be made available to members of the public by central Government?

On the second point, I am happy to say that I am considering the production of an easy read, which would make it possible for people to understand how planning operates at the Scottish and local levels and empower local communities in relation to the development of their area.

On the first point—the operation of local authorities—we are in regular contact with local authorities to discuss best practice at local level. We are always open to ideas on how local authorities can improve their performance. There are innovative ideas; some local authorities are thinking about putting their development plans on the internet. I am keen to ensure that each local authority does what is possible with the resources that they have, to ensure that people understand how the planning system operates.

Does the Scottish Executive intend to review and reform planning law during this Parliament? In particular, will a right of appeal be introduced for individuals and local communities that make representations on a particular planning application?

At the moment, the right of appeal lies with the developer. I am keen to ensure that local communities are much better informed at an earlier stage in the planning process, whether about the local plan or about the structure plan. Those documents sometimes seem remote to communities, but they are the basis on which local authorities take decisions, so it is important that people are involved in a meaningful way much earlier in the process. That is where I want us to focus our energies.

Does the minister accept that there are concerns in the wider community about the fairness of the planning system? Will she consider addressing concerns about the weight that is given to evidence and advice from bodies such as Scottish Natural Heritage?

Scottish Natural Heritage is an adviser to the Scottish Executive on nature conservation. Its advice should be acted upon in such a way that people can see that their many points of view have been taken on board when a planning decision is taken—and it is often difficult to come to a decision—and when a report is published.

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Student Finance

To ask the Scottish Executive what consultation it has had with the Secretary of State for Social Security regarding the recommendations of the independent committee of inquiry into student finance. (S1O-1312)

My officials have been in discussions with the Department of Social Security and the other education departments about the interface between student support and the benefits system. We are also preparing a full response to the committee's report, and that response is to be published in the spring. I intend to speak to the appropriate UK minister before the response is completed.

Will the minister give the Parliament more information on the stance that has been adopted by the Scottish Executive towards the eight recommendations of the Cubie committee relating to business concerned with the DSS? Is the Scottish Executive taking a positive or negative stance towards the recommendations of the committee of inquiry?

I am pleased to say that we will be considering all the other recommendations of the Cubie committee in the report that is being prepared and which will be published in the spring. It will be subject to the deliberations of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, under John Swinney's convenership.

We are also preparing a legislative timetable for the graduate endowment, which will also be considered by the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. We are considering a timetable for the full implementation of the package that we outlined and are preparing a full response to the Cubie committee's other recommendations. In addition, we will identify outstanding issues relating to student funding and higher education which were not covered by the Cubie report. I hope that, by the spring, we will have a full response to the immediate points that have been raised and to some of the wider issues that require to be debated.

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Capital Projects (Costs)

To ask the Scottish Executive what mechanisms it has to monitor and control the costs of major capital projects. (S1O-1302)

When we undertake major capital projects, managers are required to put in place management and monitoring arrangements covering accountability, project ownership, project sponsorship and project control. I am determined that those procedures should continue to ensure the highest possible standards of budgetary control, including thorough scrutiny of any budget variations and rigorous on-going monitoring arrangements.

If the minister is satisfied, as he obviously is, that those mechanisms are in place, does he agree that he should consider further mechanisms to ensure the accuracy and truthfulness of estimates given for the cost of capital projects, bearing in mind the First Minister's total inaccuracy in the various statements that he made regarding the potential cost of the Holyrood project?

That supplementary question was based on so many untruths and distortions that it does not merit a response, Presiding Officer.

I wonder whether the minister will favour me with a response.

With regard to the monitoring and control of the cost of our major capital project, the Holyrood project, is the suggested figure of £109 million the figure at which the Executive is prepared to see the cost level off? If so, can it say now what other facilities will have to be sacrificed to meet that cost? If that is not the figure for the cost, what criteria will be deployed to calculate what we should pay for the Holyrood project?

Any proposed alteration to the budgeted cost of the Holyrood project is currently a matter for the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. If any changes to the current budget for the Holyrood building are proposed, the SPCB will have to make those proposals, and the Parliament and the Executive will have to consider the impact of those proposals. That will be done openly in the chamber. That is one of the benefits of the arrangements that have been set up in the Parliament, which ensure that we have open decision making and which I continue to support.

On a point of order. The Minister for Finance has just given straightforward information about the information that will be available to and decided upon by the members of this Parliament, and I thank him for that. I read today that a spokesman for the Parliament had refused to—

Order. I am sorry, but that is not a point of order.

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Roads (Child Fatalities)

To ask the Scottish Executive how it plans to reduce the number of child fatalities on Scotland's roads. (S1O-1351)

The Scottish Executive and the UK Government recently announced targets for road accident casualty reductions in the period to 2010. They include a 50 per cent reduction in the number of child fatal and serious casualties. The targets, together with a strategy for achieving them, were published on 1 March.

At a community council meeting that I attended recently in Lochearnhead, concern was expressed about Strathyre primary school and the lack of information about the safer routes to school scheme. Will the minister review the way in which that information is disseminated?

I would be happy to do that. The purpose of the safer routes to school guidance was to enable local authorities, schools and the police to work with parents to identify safer routes to school. We want the guidance to reach the widest possible audience; I will investigate the case that Dr Jackson raised.

Will the minister confirm that good progress is being made by local authorities on installing 20 mph speed limits outside primary schools, that she strongly supports such initiatives and that she is urging local authorities to go ahead with them?

I have made it clear to local authorities that they, as the local transport authorities, are in the best position to identify the areas that need that change in speed limit. We have identified schools and areas around residential developments where child accident reduction measures could be put in place.

This is an issue on which local authorities can take the lead and that is why, last year, we gave them the power to do so.

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Business Competitiveness

To ask the Scottish Executive what assistance is being given to existing small and medium-sized companies to improve their competitiveness. (S1O-1340)

The Scottish Executive is committed to creating a culture of enterprise and a sustainable business environment that will deliver higher levels of competitiveness and productivity.

The Scottish Executive and its economic development agencies—Scottish Enterprise and Highlands and Islands Enterprise—have a range of measures in place to assist small and medium-sized companies to innovate, invest, export and access new technology, particularly e-commerce. All those things can improve and have an impact on the competitiveness of the companies.

Is the minister aware of areas such as Barrhead in my constituency that have suffered from the decline in manufacturing? Ten years on, the area is still feeling the effects of the loss of the Shanks factory.

Does the minister recognise that it is the duty of Government, working with local authorities and local enterprise companies, to nurture new businesses and help small and medium-sized businesses to expand to cater for the needs of such communities?

I endorse the sentiments behind the last part of the question. The Government is committed to ensuring that new businesses and small and medium-sized enterprises are supported.

The Shanks site in Barrhead was vacated in 1996. It was bought, and there has been some development—I think that 150 jobs have been created. I believe, however, that more could be done, so I assure Mr Macintosh that I will take up the matter with Renfrewshire Enterprise and the local council. I will inform him of the outcome of those discussions.

What progress has been made in Scotland on the UK Government's campaign to get more small and medium-sized businesses involved in Government procurement, a move that was recommended in the "[email protected]" report?

I am working closely with the Minister for Finance on the e-commerce aspects. Jack McConnell is responsible for the modernisation of government programme and I am involved in the e-commerce aspects of that, including the impact on the wider business community.

We will set ambitious targets to help to ensure that we set a good example to people whom we are encouraging to trade on the internet. As part of the process, there are detailed discussions between Westminster and the Scottish Parliament.

It is important that we take e-commerce seriously. We need a revolution in thinking in Scotland, and the Government is well placed to take the lead.

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Inverness College

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it is practicable for Inverness College to repay a capital deficit in excess of £4 million from revenue. (S1O-1301)

That is a funding matter which, from 1 July last year, is the responsibility of the Scottish Further Education Funding Council. Inverness College and the funding council have been working closely together to formulate a robust financial recovery plan for the college.

Does not the minister accept that it is totally impossible for Inverness College to pay from its modest revenue a capital deficit of more than £4 million, and that the existence of that debt is seriously damaging the morale of the staff, including that of support staff whom I met recently? Does not the minister agree that it is shameful that staff cuts in Scotland should be the cost of failed Tory and Labour policies and of past mismanagement?

It is wrong to say that all the deficit of more than £4 million is capital; only about a quarter of the deficit arises from capital items. The college has had operating deficits over the past five years, and the first stage in any recovery plan is to arrest those operating deficits. After that, a longer-term recovery process will be considered. It would be entirely wrong to speculate on the matters to which Fergus Ewing alludes before the plan has even been submitted.

Is the minister aware that courses and staff have been cut back, which has led to fewer students and less income? The college is now less responsive to local training and educational needs. How would he advise the college to build for future growth in those circumstances?

I am certain that that can be achieved. That matter will be addressed by the Scottish Further Education Funding Council. I can only draw a comparison with other colleges in which there has been a significant turnround in finances, and in which there has been dramatic expansion in recent years. Our colleges in Scotland are a success story.

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Health Service (Tayside)

To ask the Scottish Executive whether the recovery plan submitted by Tayside University Hospitals NHS Trust will have any implications for waiting times. (S1O-1325) [Interruption.]

Order.

As I announced on 16 February, a task force has been appointed to work with Tayside Health Board and the two local trusts to ensure that local health services are planned and delivered effectively, and within the total resources that are available. [Interruption.] With the task force's support, a financial recovery plan, which covers services throughout Tayside, is being prepared.

I am not sure that I heard all of Susan Deacon's reply.

Keep going, please.

Could the minister repeat the answer that she gave? [Interruption.]

I suspend the meeting for two minutes.

Meeting suspended.

On resuming—

We will continue. I ask Susan Deacon to reply.

I am happy to repeat the answer that I gave.

As I announced on 16 February, a task force has been appointed to work with Tayside Health Board and the two local trusts to ensure that local health services are planned and delivered effectively, and within the total resources that are available. With the task force's support, a financial recovery plan, which covers services throughout Tayside, is being prepared.

Would the minister care to comment on the potential impact on waiting times at Ninewells hospital when, as was widely reported earlier this week, acute general medicine is withdrawn from Stracathro and patients from Angus are diverted to Dundee? Would not it be preferable to resource the service adequately pending the outcome of the acute services review and the findings of the task force, instead of refusing admission to those high-dependency cases?

I feel duty bound to comment on a certain pattern that is emerging this afternoon in the Scottish National party's line of questioning on health. The first question I had was on a deficit that does not exist; the second question that was lodged, although subsequently withdrawn, was on an NHS trust that does not exist; I am now being asked to comment on a review, proposals for services and a recovery plan that as yet do not exist. Nothing has been agreed. In future, in its questions on the health service, the SNP would do well to have more respect for the Parliament, for the Scottish people and for the facts.

Is the minister aware of the latest major cuts in services proposed at Stracathro hospital? Are they part of her recovery plan? Will she now admit that the on-going closures at Stracathro pre-empt the Tayside acute services review? Should not she be concentrating her mind on that?

Day in, day out, week in, week out I concentrate my mind on the best way in which to move forward in providing high-quality health services for people across Scotland and on how best to direct the additional investment that we are putting into the NHS in Scotland, to deliver real benefits for patients. As I have said to Mr Welsh and many of his colleagues since the first day of the Parliament, robust local decision-making processes must be in place, to decide on how best local services are to be provided. If Mr Welsh and his colleagues in Tayside want to engage in that debate, I encourage them to do so. For my part, I have arranged for experts to work with the local health authorities to make sure that we turn the situation in Tayside round for the benefit of the people of Tayside.

Would the Minister for Health and Community Care like to reconfirm, for the sake of SNP members who have not been listening to her replies, that as yet there is no agreed recovery plan for Tayside, nor should there be until local people have been fully consulted?

Does the minister agree that the maintenance of a major teaching hospital in Dundee and two full-blown acute hospitals in Angus and Perth is unsustainable in a health board area with a population of just 400,000? Either we decide to increase the population base through merging health board areas or we accept that there is no alternative to reconfiguring the present structure of services in that area.

I agree with Mr McAllion, first, that any changes made to NHS local services must follow widespread consultation and communication at local level. All too often, the tragedy of such situations is that some politicians, for their own short-term political ends, add to confusion and disinformation among the public, and that process is going on now. Secondly, while I would never prejudge the outcome of any local review, I say, as I have said here before, that we must have change in the NHS if we want it to be fit for the 21st century and to deliver high-quality, modern services to people everywhere in Scotland. The process of change that is taking place in Tayside at present is one of many examples of service reviews that I hope will result in real improvements for people across Scotland. I hope that politicians in all parts of the chamber will engage in sensible discussion of the changes needed.

Question 15 has been withdrawn.

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Education (Violent Incidents)

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will respond to the recently published survey by its education department on incidents of violence against local authority school staff in 1998-99. (S1O-1295)

We have made it clear that violence against school staff is completely unacceptable and have put a number of measures in place to help schools deal with difficult and disruptive behaviour.

Is the minister aware that North Lanarkshire Council has employed a full-time counsellor in its education department to support staff? Will he consider promoting that to other authorities as an example of good practice, perhaps through the Scottish schools ethos network?

That is a good illustration of yet another progressive approach to education taken by North Lanarkshire Council. The role of the ethos network is to help spread good practice in Scottish schools. I am happy to commend that approach to other councils.

Given that in 1998-99 the total number of reported violent incidents against school staff was 1,898, of which 40 per cent occurred in primary schools, does the minister agree that the approach to the problem should be three-pronged: from local authorities, from schools and from school staff?

We are trying to address the problem. A training package for teachers is available. We are putting money into the scheme of alternatives to exclusion that deals with the pupils who are often the most disruptive. As part of the school security programme, local authorities can train staff in personal safety matters. There is a range of provision in this area. Part of the responsibility lies with us to share good practice, part lies with the local authority, and part lies within the school.

Does the minister accept that, under this Government, stress-related illnesses are increasing among teachers in Scotland? Violence is one reason behind that trend, but there are others, such as increased paperwork and the amount of work teachers are expected to cram into each working day. Will the minister produce a report on stress-related illness and absence among teachers, and on their causes?

We always keep under review a range of matters that affect our teaching staff. We are keen to ensure that we have a well-motivated teaching staff and that we can attract and retain more teachers into the profession. We are always happy to consider ways in which to improve the situation.

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Volvo

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will now publish the names of the companies involved in the unsuccessful negotiations for a continuation of manufacturing at the Volvo plant at Irvine in order that the Volvo work force can make representations to those companies. (S1O-1299)

For reasons of commercial confidentiality, I cannot disclose details of the companies involved in the discussions.

At least this chamber is being treated in the same way as the work force and the trade unions. Will the minister confirm that the Transport and General Workers Union wrote to him on 21 January to complain? Its letter said:

"Should it be the intention of your goodself and Agencies to continue with the exclusion of our representatives and the failure to provide us with proper information, I have no alternative but to review the position of the T&G with our representatives and members, that we are most disappointed at the way in which our representatives have been treated and our Union ignored."

In another letter—

One letter is enough.

There are 400 jobs at stake. Why does the minister not do something?

Nobody will be surprised at Mike Russell's response, but I am terribly disappointed by his irresponsible behaviour in turning the conditions at Volvo into a political football.

If we were to divulge publicly the names of the companies with which we were involved to try to help the work force, no other companies would become involved. We have worked for many months to try to secure a future for manufacturing at the Volvo plant. The best thing that Mike Russell can do is to get to grips with some facts about the matter, with which I am happy to furnish him. He is not doing the work force a favour. We will meet the work force next week and we have met the trade unions. Every conceivable step has been taken.

It is quite disgusting that Mike Russell will use the prospects of the Volvo workers, who are seeking a way forward, to make political capital for a by-election. We have not given up trying to get a facility.

Will the minister join me in paying tribute to a loyal work force, which in the face of continuing uncertainty has produced high-quality vehicles at Volvo? Will he affirm his commitment to working in partnership with local trade unions, the local authority and local people between now and June to reach an agreement and secure a future for the Volvo site?

I am pleased to endorse the constructive and responsible attitude of the local MSP for the Volvo plant. It seems that it is okay for certain list members—I will be careful with my words—to freelance around at the expense of the work force. The trade unions, the local plant, the local enterprise company, Scottish Enterprise, the rest of the Scottish Executive and I are still looking for a way forward. I did not want to be so dishonest as to keep discussions going until the plant closed and then tell the work force. We were courageous enough to say that we had tried but that at that stage we could not secure a facility. I want to continue to work with Irene Oldfather and everybody else locally who wants success in Ayrshire rather than a cheap political opportunity to kick the issue around this chamber.

Because of the disruption in the gallery, I will allow an overrun of one question in both question time and First Minister's question time.

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National Cultural Strategy

To ask the Scottish Executive what progress is being made following the consultation on the national cultural strategy and whether the principles of social inclusion will be emphasised in response to that consultation. (S1O-1311)

A consultation report was published on 7 February. We are now examining particular aspects, including access and social inclusion. The national cultural strategy will be published this summer.

The minister may be aware of the submission that Mr Macintosh, the member for Eastwood, and I made, asking for an extension of the definition of culture to include the popular music industry. Does he agree that that would be an important amendment to the cultural strategy which might make young people feel more involved in the Parliament?

The definition of culture used in the national cultural strategy consultation includes rock music. That is a splendid way of ensuring that culture involves social inclusion. [Members: "The oldest swinger in town."] Absolutely—the oldest swinger in the game. I remember Donald Peers.

Who?

Our aim will be to ensure that the strategy is inclusive not only across all social classes, but of young people.

Well done, Elvis.