The next item of business is a statement by Tom Arthur on ensuring the right support for young people’s neurodivergence, mental health and wellbeing. The minister will take questions at the end of her statement—apologies, I mean his statement—so there should be no interventions or interruptions.
14:28
Thank you, Presiding Officer, for the opportunity to update the Parliament on the Scottish Government’s work to improve access to the right support for young people’s neurodivergence, mental health and wellbeing.
I know that people are waiting too long to get the support that they need. I want to be clear from the outset that we are committed to making improvements in those areas. Last week, the Royal College of Psychiatrists in Scotland published its manifesto for next year’s Scottish Parliament election, in which it noted a significant increase in people across all ages who are seeking support for their neurodivergence. It also highlighted the importance of a needs-based, stepped care approach to support for neurodivergent people. That echoes our thinking.
Although I recognise that significant work is needed in the area and will go on to say more about our plans for that, I highlight the national neurodevelopmental specification for children and young people. Published in 2021, the specification sets out standards for all children’s services to follow, to ensure that children and young people can access the support that they need for their neurodivergence. The specification takes a needs-based approach to providing neurodevelopmental support, is underpinned by the principles of getting it right for every child and is intended to be delivered by all children’s services partners through a multi-agency approach. I welcome the recommendations from both the royal college and the child heads of psychology services in that regard, because that is what we are working towards through the implementation of the neurodevelopmental specification.
Since the specification was published, the scale and pace of the increase in demand for neurodevelopmental support and services, particularly for diagnosis, have been unprecedented. That growing demand is placing significant pressure on services and is making the implementation of the specification challenging. We know that children and families who are seeking support can be left feeling worried or uncertain about what support is available to them and how to access it, fearing that they will be left stranded if they do not have a formal diagnosis.
I take the opportunity to reassure parents and carers who may be worried that that is not the case. I recognise that a formal diagnosis can be important to an individual’s identity and to their understanding of themselves or of their child. However, support should be provided on the basis of need, not diagnosis. That is particularly important for children and young people, whose needs will change over time as they continue to grow and develop, and for those who have support needs but do not meet diagnostic criteria.
I understand that medication can be important for some who have attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and that a diagnosis of ADHD is needed to access that, but non-pharmacological support can also be helpful and is recommended in the first instance by the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence. It is also important that children and families are able to choose whether medication is right for them.
Much of the conversation in this chamber around neurodivergence has focused on diagnosis and treatment and on the relationship between neurodivergence and child and adolescent mental health services. Those conversations have included incorrect assertions that young people are being moved off waiting lists to meet the CAMHS waiting times target. I make it crystal clear that that is categorically not the case. CAMHS is a specialist mental health service for children and young people who are experiencing significant mental health problems. Neurodivergence is not a mental health condition and CAMHS is not the appropriate service for children seeking a neurodevelopmental diagnosis.
The improvements in CAMHS waiting times are the result of significant and sustained investment by this Government in mental health services and of hard work by our CAMHS workforce. I put on record my gratitude to them for the work that they do every day to support children and young people who have acute mental health needs. The 18-week CAMHS waiting time standard has been met for the second quarter in a row, with 91.6 per cent of children and young people starting treatment within 18 weeks of referral, but we cannot be complacent. Performance still varies across health boards and some children are waiting too long to receive the support that they need. We continue to provide enhanced support to boards that are not on track to meet the standard through providing access to professional advice and ensuring that they have robust improvement plans in place.
We also know that early intervention and prevention are key to supporting good mental health and that not all children who seek support will need a specialist service such as CAMHS. In fact, the majority will find more suitable support in their local community, and we are providing support to local authorities to ensure that that is quickly and easily accessible. Indeed, we have provided local authorities with more than £65 million since 2020 to fund community-based mental health and wellbeing supports for children, young people and their families. Those supports are available in every local authority area, and councils report that they were used by nearly 83,000 people between July 2023 and March 2024. That £15 million per-year funding is continuing through the local government finance settlement from 2025-26, alongside £16 million for school counselling.
Returning to focus on neurodivergence, I acknowledge the concerns raised by families, and in this chamber, about neurodevelopmental diagnostic waiting times. I recognise that that data is not nationally reported or published. Our primary focus—quite rightly, I think—is on timely provision of appropriate support. However, I certainly recognise that further work is needed to improve the quality of the data that we have on neurodevelopmental requirements and support. We will continue to work with health boards and local authorities to improve our understanding of the quality of the data that is available and how it can be used to improve support and services.
Last year, we provided nearly £250,000 to fund a range of individual projects aimed at improving assessment and support for children and young people, including family support and testing of digital assessment tools. That built on a previous £1 million investment to fund five pilots that focused on various aspects of the national neurodevelopmental specification, including implementing GIRFEC and multi-agency working.
In partnership with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, we have undertaken a review of the implementation of the specification, which sought views from education authorities, health boards, young people and their families, clinicians and third sector partners, along with others. The review highlighted areas of challenge and further work to support children’s services partners to implement the specification. A report that sets out our findings has been published today and it outlines the specific short, medium and long-term actions that we will take forward. They include providing greater clarity on the roles and responsibilities of partners in delivering the specification; opportunities to promote training; the sharing of good practice, including in the use of new digital assessment tools; work on data availability; and work to improve support to families. I extend my thanks to everyone who contributed to the review.
I am also pleased to announce that, to support us in driving forward this vital work, we will set up a cross-sector task force that will be jointly chaired by Fiona Davies, chief executive of NHS Highland, and Dr Lynne Binnie, chair of the Association of Directors of Education in Scotland’s additional support needs network and the City of Edinburgh Council’s head of education for inclusion.
Further, I am pleased to announce that, to support this work, we will provide half a million pounds in additional funding this year to deliver improvements to the support and services that are available to children, young people and families who are seeking support for their neurodivergence. That funding will be available across children’s services partners in recognition of the multi-agency and needs-based approach that is required. Further details will be set out in due course.
I do not underestimate how much work is needed to ensure that neurodivergent young people are able to access the support that they need when they need it. That will not happen overnight. It will require collaboration and a range of partners working together, including within Government—for example, between my officials and officials in the education and skills portfolio.
Neurodivergence reflects the rich, varied and complex ways in which our brains work. Neurodivergent children and young people bring unique strengths, perspectives and ways of thinking that enrich all our communities, but I recognise that they can face significant barriers in education and daily life that often continue into adulthood when entering further or higher education and the workplace. Those difficulties can be made even harder by the increased risk of mental health struggles that many neurodivergent individuals experience, alongside the need to navigate a world that is not always built for them.
We have made positive progress in ensuring that children and young people are able to access support for their mental health and wellbeing, and we will continue to deliver further improvements. We are in the early stages of an improvement journey on neurodevelopmental support and I look forward to further detailed conversation at the upcoming cross-party summit on neurodivergence.
I end by emphasising the Government’s continued commitment to ensuring that all children and young people who grow up in Scotland receive the right support in the right place at the right time.
The minister will now take questions on the issues that were raised in his statement. I intend to allow about 20 minutes for questions, after which we will move on to the next item of business. It would be helpful if those members who wish to ask a question would press their request-to-speak buttons.
I thank the minister for early sight of his statement. This is the first time that I have been able to officially welcome him to his new post. He takes it over at a really challenging time, as he has just alluded to.
When we have such a massive increase in diagnoses over such a short period of time, it is obvious that something catastrophic has occurred. I put it to the minister that the Scottish Government has not been entirely honest with the public or the families who have suffered on the waiting list. The gathering of data has not been transparent and the Scottish Government has once again been cherry picking and manipulating the data to fit its narrative. If neurodivergent conditions were never supposed to fall under child and adolescent mental health services, why did the Scottish Government allow that to occur in the data in the first place, and for such a length of time?
In March 2024, the workforce census of the Royal College of Psychiatrists reported that the number of general psychiatrists, including locum rolls, had remained unchanged for more than a decade. According to freedom of information data that I obtained, only 32 per cent of children were seen for an assessment within the timescales recommended by the national autism implementation team.
I understand that not everyone will need or want a diagnosis, but, given the increase in demand, what is the Scottish Government doing to ensure that there are staff to diagnose such conditions in order to give children access to the support that they need, where eligibility for support requires a diagnosis? In situations in which a diagnosis is not wanted, what is the Scottish Government doing to better support children by providing them with an outlet through community activity?
In 2023-24, the Scottish National Party pledged £55 million for neurodevelopmental conditions services, yet it did not include dedicated funding for such services in this year’s budget.
The first thing that I want to say is that I do not view the rise in visibility and demand as catastrophic—I do not think that that is what Brian Whittle intended to say. Neurodivergent people have always been with us, whether as our friends, in our family or in our communities, but they now have more of a voice. They are being heard, and we are working to provide the support that they require. That is important.
Over the past five to 10 years, we have had a significant increase in demand. Consequently, our systems must respond to that. That is why we brought forward the specification and the review of the specification, and it is why we supported the pilot areas and the tests of change—we wanted to learn. It is also why we are taking forward the work with the task force and the additional in-year funding that I have set out today. We want to support our local partners—health boards and children’s services partners—to ensure that the right support is available in the right place. That is absolutely vital.
On the question about data, I touched on that issue in my statement. I recognise that we do not currently have a national data set on waiting lists for neurodevelopmental diagnosis. That is why we are committed to continuing to work with health boards and local authorities to assess and understand the data that is available and its applicability to improving outcomes for young people and children in our communities.
With regard to the workforce, we previously commissioned the national autism implementation team and NHS Education for Scotland to provide professional learning and development to a range of practitioners at a range of levels to increase awareness across those levels.
I hope that that clarifies some of the points that Mr Whittle raised.
Finally, the data on CAMHS is clearly presented on the Public Health Scotland website, so I refute Mr Whittle’s point about that.
I welcome the minister to his new role in Government and thank him for providing early sight of his statement.
I was dismayed by one aspect of his statement in particular—the claim that “incorrect assertions” had been made that young people are being moved off waiting lists to meet the CAMHS waiting times target. Many members across the chamber will agree that it is a matter of fact, not assertion, that that is happening—that is exactly what we are seeing across Scotland. Children are being moved off the CAMHS lists to different pathways that often have indefinite waiting times. The minister’s remark struck me as being a bit of Orwellian doublethink.
It is very easy for the minister to declare a job well done when the list is being reduced not by successfully getting children and young people the help that they need, where they need it, but by creating additional lists. We know that several health boards now count initial assessments as treatment. For a target to be useful, it must be permanent, measurable and rigorous. The Government has proven that the CAMHS waiting times target does not fulfil any of those objectives. It is unethical and, ultimately, futile.
Some children are now having to wait years for the treatment that they so desperately need. Does the minister agree that it is simply not acceptable, in a country such as ours, to have waiting times that are measured in years? Will he finally fulfil the Scottish Government’s promise that it would spend 1 per cent of the national health service budget on CAMHS by the end of this parliamentary session, so that we can get children and young people the support that they need, where they need it?
Again, let me be crystal clear: the assertion—it is an assertion—that individuals are being moved off the CAMHS waiting times list is incorrect. The CAMHS waiting times list is for people with significant mental health conditions. Individuals who co-present as neurodivergent and as having mental health conditions will be on that list, but CAMHS is not the appropriate pathway for a neurodevelopmental diagnosis. The CAMHS statistics reflect that, and they are accurate. The data is transparently provided on the Public Health Scotland website.
We have provided additional investment in mental health. This year, mental health spending will reach around £1.5 billion. In the past five years, direct spending by the Scottish Government has increased from approximately £117 million to £270 million. We are working towards the target that Mr Sweeney mentioned. We are very close to meeting the target of 10 per cent of health spending being spent on mental health and 1 per cent being spent on CAMHS by the end of this parliamentary session. As I have already indicated, I am preparing to engage with health boards to work constructively in partnership with them to ensure that those targets are realised.
The Health, Social Care and Sport Committee has launched an inquiry into ADHD and autism pathways and support. I warmly welcome that, because many of my constituents have contacted me about the issue. However, that has led to constituents asking what that means for the learning disabilities, autism and neurodivergence bill that the Scottish Government has committed to. Can the minister provide an assurance that that legislation is still being worked on and that the additional inquiry highlights how seriously the Parliament views improving the systems to help neurodivergent people of all ages to get the support that they need?
I welcome the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee’s inquiry and assure Stuart McMillan that the Government’s commitment to developing the LDAN bill has not changed. The proposed bill is important to many people across Scotland and we are firmly committed to ensuring that the rights of people with learning disabilities and neurodivergent people are respected, protected and championed. We have made a clear commitment that the work will continue and that the next steps will be for us to publish draft provisions, with the benefit of the consultation evidence informing our refined proposals. We are currently progressing that work, which is being informed by discussions with the three bill advisory panels, which include representation from people with lived experience, stakeholders and practitioners.
I am glad to hear that the Government accepts that people are waiting too long to get the support that they need. Although the minister highlighted that support is not based on having a diagnosis, that is not necessarily the case for too many children and young people with autism and other neurodivergent conditions.
I also note the minister’s assertion that young people are not being moved off waiting lists to meet CAMHS targets. The minister can be as crystal clear as he likes, but we have a freedom of information response that shows that that statement is completely false. If the minister has that proof, will he commit to publishing the data that supports his statement regarding neurodivergent conditions and CAMHS waiting times?
Data on CAMHS waiting times is transparently published by Public Health Scotland.
I addressed in my statement the point about data on neurodivergent conditions assessment waiting times. We do not have a centralised national collection of data on that, but we are working with health boards and local authorities to identify which data is relevant and which data can be best deployed to support outcomes for people who use those services.
It is important that children and young people receive all the support that they need at an early stage to thrive in an educational setting, particularly when those children and young people have neurodivergent and mental health issues. Will the minister set out the importance of education and health services working together, and outline how the Government is investing in additional support for learning for those young people?
We all want children and young people to receive the support that they need to reach their full learning potential. Education authorities should identify, provide for and review the additional support needs of their pupils, and they can ask health boards to support that. Spending on additional support for learning reached a record high of more than £1 billion in 2023-24. We have prioritised additional investment of £29 million in the 2025-26 budget to support the ASN workforce. We have provided local authorities with £16 million per annum to ensure that all pupils aged 10 and above have access to counselling services. The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills is bringing together a cross-party round table with local government to discuss supporting ASN in our schools.
As someone with ADHD who takes medication on a daily basis, I have to take issue with some of the assertions in the statement. The minister stated that non-pharmacological support can also be helpful and that people may choose to take other forms of therapy. However, the reverse of that is also true. For many people like me, medication will make the biggest difference, but most importantly, how can we choose unless we have a diagnosis? We need that to be in place first.
The minister also misquotes the NICE guidance. Although it is true that the NICE guidance suggests that, for children, other forms of therapy should be pursued, it also states:
“If the behavioural and/or attention problems persist with at least moderate impairment, the child or young person should be referred to secondary care (that is, a child psychiatrist, paediatrician, or specialist ADHD CAMHS) for assessment.”
The minister must not partially quote the NICE guidance in that way. If CAMHS is not the right pathway for diagnosis, what is? When will that pathway be implemented and will it require co-occurring conditions? If it does, the only option will be to access diagnosis privately, which will cost thousands of pounds that many families cannot afford.
I recognise that Daniel Johnson is bringing his expertise and experience to bear on an issue that he has championed in the Parliament. In my statement I recognised explicitly that a diagnosis can be transformational, because it enables people to access medication—I made that point. I quoted the NICE guidance simply to highlight that other forms of non-pharmacological support are also important, and are often used as a first-line intervention.
The other key point that I want to convey is that, when someone is waiting for an assessment or a diagnosis, that should not be a barrier to their receiving support. Just as the absence of a diagnosis should not be a barrier to their obtaining that, neither should the fact that they are waiting for an assessment. That is absolutely vital, and it is what we expect our joined-up services, which involve local government and health boards, to deliver. That is what I want to see, and it is what the national specification aims to do. It is also what the work of the task force that will follow the review will seek to deliver. We will discuss that issue when we have the cross-party summit later in the year.
I welcome the minister to his new post. The Scottish Government has been trying to make improvements aimed at reducing CAMHS waiting times, but it is vital that we maintain momentum on that. Can the minister say more about how health boards are being supported to improve their performance and provide our young people with the help that they need?
As I said earlier, despite the improvements that we have seen, we absolutely cannot be complacent. I acknowledge that there is still a lot of work to do. Alongside our provision of a record £16.2 billion settlement for health boards, we have provided an additional £123.5 million-worth of recurring funding to support better outcomes across a range of mental health services, including CAMHS and neurodevelopmental services. We are committed to supporting all boards to meet the standard, which is that 90 per cent of children and young people who are referred to CAMHS should start their treatment within 18 weeks. We are providing access to professional advice and support to boards that are not on track to meet that standard, as well as ensuring that we have robust improvement plans in place and are monitoring their implementation.
I, too, welcome the minister to his new post. In his statement, he said that it is important that children and their families are able to choose whether medication is right for them. However, the reality is that they are being denied that choice right now. NHS Tayside has told my constituents that, due to a lack of capacity to prescribe medication safely, even children with existing ADHD diagnoses cannot access potentially life-changing medication. Does the minister think that that is acceptable? Will he meet me to discuss the issue?
I want to be absolutely clear that I recognise the importance that is placed on having a diagnosis, particularly with regard to accessing medication for ADHD. I do not want there to be any dubiety about anything that I have said. It is unacceptable that anyone should have to wait an unduly long period of time to be assessed or diagnosed—none of us wants that.
They have a diagnosis, but they cannot get the medication.
I recognise the specific points that Mr Ruskell raises about NHS Tayside, and I will be happy to meet him to discuss those further.
I welcome the minister to his new role.
Improving neurodevelopmental care pathways is such a vital issue for the Scottish Liberal Democrats that we used our only debating day this year to bring a debate on it to the Parliament. People should not have to wait seven years for a diagnosis or to face life-defining exams without support. The minister’s statement is utterly silent on the issue of shared care, which we raised in our debate. It used to be that families could get a private diagnosis and thereafter obtain a national health service prescription, but that option is no longer available in the NHS Lothian area. Doctors have ended it because of concerns about the credentials and safety of private diagnosers, but also because they fear that they could be overwhelmed. The executive medical director of NHS Lothian has now written to several practices to say that she cannot support that decision. There is an impasse between NHS Lothian and local general practitioners. Will the Scottish Government bring those two parties together to agree a protocol for shared care that can be delivered safely, with adequate resources, to ensure that people can start being seen?
I put on the record my gratitude to the Scottish Liberal Democrats for securing the debate at the end of May that Mr Cole-Hamilton mentioned. As he might imagine should be the case, I have been through the Official Report of the debate and have considered carefully the issues that were raised in it.
During my first two weeks in the post that I am honoured now to hold, the issue of shared care has stood out for me. I am not going to underplay the complexity of the issue or the absolute importance of the lead clinician in any decision making that takes place, but I very much recognise the iniquity that can be created when those who are unable to access an assessment or diagnosis through the national health service turn to the private sector and are confronted with a situation in which the two systems do not join up.
I am not playing down the complexity of the issue. I will explore it further, and I am happy to engage directly with Alex Cole-Hamilton as part of the wider cross-party summit.
It is vital that children and young people have access to the right support and specialist care. I am glad that steps forward have been taken in the understanding of complex cases, intersectionality and comorbidities in neurodivergence. It can make a huge difference if a child is sent down the wrong treatment route due to misunderstandings. Can the minister say any more about the Scottish Government’s work to ensure that young people access the right pathways and that services provide adequate support?
I reiterate that I understand that recent confusion about the relationships between CAMHS and neurodevelopmental support has been causing concerns. I reiterate that CAMHS is not the correct service for children seeking a diagnosis of a neurodevelopmental condition unless they have a co-existing mental health condition.
A neurodevelopmental pathway can help to ensure that the right support is provided. That is intended to ensure that young people who need CAMHS support for their mental health receive it in a timely manner and that specialist neurodevelopmental support is available whenever it is needed.
The specific design of health services is for individual health boards to decide, and each will have its own arrangements. However, there should be a multi-agency approach, and services should be designed to ensure that children receive appropriate and timely support for their individual needs.
In all my time in the Parliament, I have never heard a statement from a Government minister so disconnected from the reality that our constituents, especially young people, face. The minister should reflect on that and should potentially withdraw his statement, because it does not mention young people transitioning into adult services. How many young people are not starting treatment prior to transitioning to adult services? He has not mentioned that. How many families have been forced to seek diagnosis and treatment in the private sector, as Alex Cole-Hamilton said, because of failures of the minister’s Government?
I reject the accusation that there is a disconnect, because I have been very clear that waits are too long. I have spoken about the individual experiences of people, and I directly responded to Alex Cole-Hamilton and recognised the issues that he raised. The point about transitions is absolutely important, and I look forward to further engagement with members on that. A joined-up approach is key to that. That is what the national specification seeks to achieve. We are taking forward the work of the review via the task force to ensure that we have a more joined-up, connected, integrated, holistic and person-centred approach that is absolutely consistent with the GIRFEC principles. That is what we are working to achieve.
Will the minister clarify how regional inequalities are being addressed in rural and post-industrial communities, including former coalfields, to ensure equitable and timely access to support for neurodivergent young people? My inbox is full of correspondence from families who are experiencing huge difficulties in accessing the support that they urgently require and are entitled to, as is set out in the national specification.
I recognise Elena Whitham’s championing of these issues in the chamber.
I recognise that young people in rural communities can experience particular challenges with their mental health and wellbeing. It is helpful that decisions on the provision of mental health and neurodivergent services, which are delivered through a mixture of the NHS, local authorities and third sector organisations, are a local responsibility, because local needs can be taken into account. We have provided health boards and local authorities with significant investment to deliver appropriate support. That funding is provided in a flexible way to ensure that funding can be put to use in a way that is consistent with the nature of the demands of a particular location and is specific to the needs of communities.
I, too, welcome the minister to his new role and agree with him that young people are waiting too long for support for their neurodivergence—young people such as my six-year-old constituent from Blantyre who has been waiting for almost four years.
For many children, young people and families affected by the issues that we are discussing, the school holidays will be a challenging time. What reassurance can the minister give to my constituents that, this summer, if they need it, they will be able to access the right support in a way that is accessible and affordable?
I thank Monica Lennon for raising the issue. I appreciate the challenges that school holidays can present. Statutory responsibilities are placed on local authorities and other partners to ensure that there is the correct provision of services. The length of waiting time that she referred to is unacceptable. I am determined to build on the excellent work of my predecessor, Maree Todd, in driving forward improvements. That is why I have delivered the statement; that is why we are bringing forward additional investment; that is why the task force has been established; and it is why I look forward to working with colleagues when we meet later in the year for the cross-party summit.
The statement recognises that early intervention is key. However, following a fatal accident inquiry after the tragic death of my 18-year-old constituent Harris Macdonell, Sheriff Paterson stated that it was wholly inappropriate that Harris was placed in Huntlyburn adult psychiatric ward. As a result of an FOI request, we know that, since 2007, 107 young people have been placed in inappropriate adult care settings. There are just three such facilities for young people in Scotland, but the statement does not accept that there are issues from diagnosis through to appropriate mental health care for young people. Will the minister react to that, please?
I thank Rachael Hamilton for raising the matter. I have read the FAI report—indeed, I engaged with the media and was interviewed yesterday about it. It is a heartbreaking and tragic case that should not have happened. As I said previously, it is a matter of deep regret and I apologise, because no one should have to experience what Harris experienced.
The case underscores the importance, when in-patient mental health treatment is required for children and young people, of that treatment being provided in an age-appropriate setting. There has been investment to increase the capacity of CAMHS, and we have seen improvement. We also recognise that the overwhelming majority of CAMHS engagement takes place in a community setting. Rachael Hamilton’s point, which she has raised previously, about the number of young people who are not being seen in a dedicated adolescent setting is cause for concern.
Working through those issues will be a priority for me when I engage with health boards and other partners during the summer. Part of the work will involve enhancing the capacity in the system to support treatment and care in community settings. I recognise the need for in-patient capacity and the work that we have to do to ensure that there are age-appropriate settings for all children and young people who need to be seen as in-patients.
With all respect to the new minister, I cannot see how he can be crystal clear about anything when, in his statement, he conceded that there is no national data. How can the Government make policy when no national data is published? There will be another task force, but what will be its measurable outcomes and when will it report?
I accept Stephen Kerr’s point about the need for data, which is why I have referred specifically to our on-going work in engaging with local authorities and health boards on neurodevelopmental assessment. We do not have the data because the statutory responsibility for delivering those services lies with local partners.
I noted that we have seen a significant increase in demand, which the system needs to respond to. It must be dynamic and recognise the change, which is why I set out the measures that I referred to in my statement. Having undertaken a review of the national specification, some work needs to be done to drive things forward, so that the standards that are set out in the specification are realised consistently on the ground across Scotland and, most importantly, are felt in the lived experience of those who use the services.
I take the point about the importance of data informing national policy. Of course, the situation with CAMHS is different, so we need to clarify what the CAMHS waiting times show. I hope that that answer has been of some use to Stephen Kerr.