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Chamber and committees

Plenary, 19 Sep 2002

Meeting date: Thursday, September 19, 2002


Contents


Culture (Educational Development of Young People)

The next item of business is a debate on motion S1M-3401, in the name of Mike Watson, on the role of culture in the educational development of young people, together with an amendment to the motion.

The Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport (Mike Watson):

The Executive invites Parliament to recognise culture's enormous potential for helping to deliver on a key priority of the Administration, which is to give our children and young people the best possible start in life. We are committed to developing and realising that potential, and I welcome today's debate, which offers an excellent opportunity to put on record and discuss the actions that we are taking.

The evidence shows that young people enjoy cultural activity. They enjoy dance, drama, sport, art, music, film and the many other forms of cultural expression. If we want their formative years to be as productive as possible, we owe it to all our children and young people to provide them with the widest possible opportunities to sample various cultural forms and develop their interest in, and experience of, as many of those as possible. As well as providing a source of considerable pleasure, the teaching of traditional cultural activities such as dance and music is vital in perpetuating those strong elements of Scotland's heritage for future generations to enjoy. We owe it to our young people to provide them with the best possible range of high-quality cultural experiences. That should be a vital part of their schooling. I shall set out the actions that we are taking and promoting to secure a core position for culture in schools and community education.

There is an important role for education authorities and individual schools in examining the scope for developing the role of cultural tuition in the curriculum. The benefits of that extend well beyond the subjects in question. In recent years, a key challenge for educators has been to recognise and understand those connections. An ever-growing and convincing body of evidence shows us that, when children are brought into contact with cultural activity and when practising artists are brought into schools—which is important—the young people's capability increases in an impressive range of life skills. Their academic ability also benefits.

Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (SSP):

I am reminded of the response of the actor and director, Peter Mullan, when he was asked about the artistic influences on him. He said that the most important influence was his art teacher at school. Does the minister agree that we have far too few music, art and drama teachers in schools? Does he agree that the focus of the Executive's action must be to get more staff in schools to encourage our youngsters?

Mike Watson:

Peter Mullan's artistic creativity was rightly rewarded at the Venice film festival this year. I warmly congratulate him on that.

The number of teachers is a key factor. One of our aims in introducing cultural co-ordinators in schools—which I shall say a bit more about—is to develop young people's skills in culture in its widest sense. I accept what Tommy Sheridan says and, in the broadest sense, we will continue to review staffing levels throughout the curriculum.

Will the minister give way?

Mike Watson:

I would like to make some progress. I shall give way later.

The creativity agenda is another aspect of education that has required a considerable rethink in recent times. It is recognised that a holistic approach to creativity is required across the entire school curriculum, with the aim of striking the right balance between academic success and the education of the whole child. Creativity is not a special attribute belonging to the gifted few, but can be cultivated by everyone, given the right conditions for learning. On the one hand, this is an exciting development; on the other hand, it provides fresh challenges in managing the everyday demands of the classroom.

Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP):

I agree entirely with the minister that contact with creativity is essential. Can the minister indicate whether he is going to progress the ambition of the Scottish National Party and of other parties to ensure that music lessons in school are more freely available? Will he also ensure that all young people have contact with music and can learn a musical instrument at some stage in their school careers?

Mike Watson:

The SNP does not have sole claim to that aim: it is one that I share. A review is currently being undertaken by the Royal Scottish Academy of Music and Drama and the National Foundation for Youth Music with the Scottish Arts Council. On the basis of that review, we will consider the position of music tuition. We are aware of its benefits.

Children must be taught not simply facts to be recalled, but how to interpret and understand the facts, how to challenge, how to take risks and how to solve problems with confidence and flexibility. There is already much good practice in that area and growing awareness, as exemplified by one primary school teacher, who remarked that there is no divide between encouraging creativity and the raising of academic standards. She said that

"By promoting creativity, you do raise standards."

The Executive takes that opinion seriously.

It has been said that the teacher's job is not to help children do better in school, but to help them do better in life. I endorse that philosophy, as does the Executive. An excellent discussion document entitled "Creativity in Education", which we commissioned from Learning and Teaching Scotland and the international design, technology and enterprise support network was launched by Nicol Stephen last November. It set out the clear and unassailable case for promoting and encouraging creativity and drew attention to current good practice.

Work is now well in hand to spread that good practice and we are working with Learning and Teaching Scotland to refine measures to evaluate the outcomes. I have no doubt that the development of creative thinking techniques will yield knowledge that will enliven the whole curriculum.

As part of the process of implementing the national cultural strategy, I have established a group with representatives from the creative industries. One of their aims is to explore how we can boost the valuable contribution in the further and higher education sectors and the consequent impact on Scotland's economy of the creative industries.

On Monday of this week, I was pleased to announce the launch of "Implementation of the National Cultural Strategy: draft guidance for Scottish local authorities". Local authorities will play a key role in delivering the national cultural strategy. I have commended that document to all local authorities and I hope it will prove helpful when they undertake their role. I seek the widest possible response before the consultation period ends in the middle of January 2003.

Earlier this year, I launched the pilot programme of cultural co-ordinators in schools at St Joseph's Academy in Kilmarnock. That pilot was established to identify ways to maximise the potential contribution of culture to young people's education, developing their self-confidence, skills and creativity and exploring ways to widen the range of experiences available to children. The Executive extended the pilot to all local authorities in Scotland. I am pleased to say that 31 of 32 authorities are participating in the programme and that 100 co-ordinators will soon be in place throughout Scotland. That represents an input of £1.75 million for the two years until 2004.

In Highland Council area, eight co-ordinators—each with a particular speciality—will work to build partnerships with local arts providers and operate as a team to develop a wide range of participative arts activities for schools. A different model has been chosen in Falkirk, where a cultural co-ordinator will work with clusters of secondary and associated primary schools co-operating with specialist arts teachers to develop good practice and link those opportunities into the curriculum. In Edinburgh, four co-ordinators will work with the education department to develop artists' residencies in schools, bringing in visiting arts companies and establishing the city's arts unit as a one-door provision for arts and education.

The spending review for 2002 was announced by Andy Kerr last week. In addition to the excellent boost that it gave to all levels of school sport, it provides additional money to allow the cultural co-ordinator programme to run for a further two years until 2006.

That represents an important commitment by the Executive to strengthen what we already accept as a key component of a young person's development. The aim will be to extend and develop the good practices developed by the participants in years 1 and 2. I know that that news will be widely welcomed.

The national institutions, other cultural non-departmental public bodies and funded local and national cultural bodies, such as the national companies, are responsible for educational outreach programmes. They are already playing their part in various ways. The Executive expects the co-ordinator pilot to develop innovative approaches, to extend the range of pupils' learning experiences in order to include culture in all its facets, to bring them into contact with professional arts' bodies and to enrich their future opportunities for employment and lifelong learning. I am pleased to note developments such as the decision by the Scottish Arts Council to extend its creative links programme to all Scottish local authorities by 2007. Some of the successes of that programme include the creation of jazz bands, youth theatres and other activities, such as drug awareness programmes.

A wealth of opportunity exists for young people to engage with our country's rich and vibrant culture. Education has a key responsibility to connect the young with the full range of those cultural experiences. Audience development initiatives that are targeted at young people are also helping to raise that awareness. I welcome such initiatives and encourage their wider application. If young people are denied access—for whatever reason—to cultural activity, they will be denied what should be an important part of their education and upbringing.

It is critical that we identify the barriers to participation in and enjoyment of culture by our children. That is why we have asked local authorities that have submitted applications to participate in the cultural co-ordinator pilot to give priority to areas of greatest need, and that is where we have directed the funding.

The Executive debate on the wider question of the future of school education, which was launched earlier this year, opened up that most important issue for an inclusive dialogue on the future strategy for education in Scotland with pupils, parents, teachers, employers and everyone who has an interest. This afternoon, the Parliament has the chance to discuss the special contribution of culture and its important place in the educational development of young people.

I have set out just some of the many ways in which the Executive is demonstrating our commitment to that goal: through investment; by promoting good practice and partnerships; and through new and challenging initiatives. Without a doubt, there is unanimity in the chamber on making the development of our children a top priority. To invest in the future of Scotland's children is to invest in Scotland, and our investment in the cultural dimension of the personal development of children is an essential part of that.

I move,

That the Parliament recognises the value of participation in cultural activities by Scotland's young people; believes that the development of creativity and the expressive arts is essential to Scotland's success in the 21st century, and welcomes the commitment of the Scottish Executive to increase the opportunities for all young people to take action to engage with Scotland's rich and vibrant culture.

Before I call Brian Monteith, I remind members to press their request-to-speak buttons if they want to be called to speak. A number of members who wish to speak have yet to press their buttons.

Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):

I am pleased to lead for the Conservatives in this debate. I am surprised by how anodyne the motion is. I profoundly disagree with the Executive's approach, but I believe that it is doing far more than the motion suggests. Clearly, the minister elaborated further in his speech, but a good deal of work is being done. It is as if the motion had been hurriedly constructed and added to the Executive's business in order to show that the minister still holds the culture portfolio and finds time for his brief, despite ducking and diving—unfortunately, in vain—in his attempts to change the mind of the Minister for Health and Community Care.

On the many initiatives that are being taken, I do not question the ministers' or the Executive's motives. I am sure that they mean well. They wish children to participate in all the expressive arts and to immerse themselves in, and help to shape, Scottish culture. However, our contention is that, although launching more initiatives from the centre may be rewarding to the politicians that initiate them—and the bureaucrats that manage them—they are not the best way in which to promote involvement in our culture or to let it flourish.

Primarily, Conservatives believe that decisions about access and participation should be taken at the local level and that schools should make those decisions. It is for the head teacher, in partnership with teachers and parents, to determine the particular shape of the school curriculum.

I value the arts, our history, our cuisine and our sport. All are important aspects of our Scottish culture.

Especially the cuisine.

No, not especially the cuisine.

Interesting priorities.

Mr Monteith:

I did not say anything about priorities.

I would like those aspects of our culture to play a more prominent role in the lives of our schools. I do not believe that I, or any minister for education or culture, could direct such an approach from the centre. The education policy that is on display is incoherent, as it says two contradictory things.

On the one hand, we are told that a more liberal approach should be taken to the curriculum and that schools should have more freedom to decide what they teach, how they teach it and what their priorities are. On the other hand, we are told that there must be more culture and more access to culture and so cultural co-ordinators are to be recruited to see that that happens. For that reason, it would have been far more helpful for the debate to take place at the stage that pilot reports are available to us. That way we would be able to see what is happening on the ground.

Those of us who deal with education are aware of its competing demands and priorities. We are told that the curriculum should contain more sport, languages and Scottish history. We are reminded constantly about the importance of literacy and numeracy skills. Questions are raised about priorities and the coherent policies that would allow schools to determine and reflect the best of what is available locally. The answer to those questions is to give devolved power to schools and to create diversity.

We say that peripatetic teachers are key. When I visit primary schools, staff tell me that they wish that they had more control over funding so that they could use music teachers, PE teachers and art specialists far more often. Music tuition is very patchy and the tuition of piping, in particular, could be improved greatly. The way to solve that problem is not to instil piping in every school in a top-down approach. Schools should instead have greater access to such courses, but should be able to decide on their local priorities.

I have no doubt that our schools would like to do more, but to simply employ more people in regional centres will not put a chanter in a single pupil's hand. Let us dismantle this cultural merry-go-round. Let us ensure that our schools flourish by giving them the ability to reflect local aspirations, traditions and cultures. I trust teachers to deliver. If they are given the freedom and resources, they will do so.

New money is not required, nor is political posturing from politicians who are desperate for good publicity. All that is required is for funds to be reallocated away from the Scottish Arts Council and local authorities into schools.

I move amendment S1M-3401.1 to leave out from "the development" to end and insert:

"more can be done to open up opportunity for learning about and participating in expressive arts, and recognises the importance of schools in this process."

Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP):

As the chamber may have noticed, I did not lodge an amendment to the motion. That may have surprised the Executive parties, but, having listened to Brian Monteith, I am glad that I did not. His amendment is the usual Trojan horse, which allows him to talk about private education and his other obsessions.

Will the member give way?

Michael Russell:

Not yet, Mr Monteith. The member's voice has only just stopped echoing around the chamber. Let me make a little bit of progress.

The reality of the situation is that, instead of condemning—as ever—the Executive for the vagueness of its motion, we should encourage the Executive to do better. I will treat the debate as one in which the Executive should receive encouragement. I will also ask questions about what is taking place, but I will do so in as supportive a way as I can from my position across the chamber. Elaine Murray is right to laugh at that point, as will become obvious. I repeat that I am genuine in my attempt to be supportive.

I am pleased to see the minister leading the debate. He is the first minister with responsibility for culture that we have had since Sam Galbraith. I am pleased to see a minister with a portfolio in the Cabinet actively leading a debate on culture in the Scottish Parliament. Culture should be at the heart of Government, politics and education. If having a minister with responsibility for culture means that the Government is moving in that direction, I am happy to keep on giving the Government a little shove.

It is no accident that today I am wearing a small piece of tartan. It is the tartan of the Legislative Assembly of Alberta. I had the pleasure of having dinner last night with the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly of Alberta, who joined us in the public gallery earlier today. It was intriguing to hear that Alberta has not one, but two tartans, which are symbols of Alberta.

Tartan is a Scottish symbol: it is a Scottish fabric, which is woven to Scottish designs. It is a Scottish idea. Even in Alberta, tartan is used as a state symbol. That is done for conscious reasons. If members read the story of this Alberta tartan, they will learn that it contains what its designers thought are the colours of Alberta—its forest, skies and lakes.

How many Scottish children know anything about tartan? How many know where it came from, how it was developed and what its meaning is? Today, a delegation from a Canadian province came to the Scottish Parliament and gave MSPs bits of tartan. That should make us stop and think. We have been given a bit of our own fabric back. Perhaps we should tell our children a great deal more about the importance of their culture.

There is potential in Scotland to deepen our understanding of Scotland and what it has given to the world. How do we do that? I have always been sceptical about the plan for cultural co-ordinators in the national culture strategy. The plan was long delayed, but I accept that it is now going ahead. Let us see what comes of it.

My first concern is about putting all the eggs in one basket. The minister said in his speech that there would be four cultural co-ordinators in Edinburgh. That may or may not be necessary, but there is only one piping tutor in the whole of Edinburgh for all Edinburgh schools. I have no objection to developing culture, even in a scheme that has the potential to ghettoise culture, but let us look at the balance that is being struck. If we have four cultural co-ordinators, but only one person to teach the bagpipes to all schoolchildren in Edinburgh—and for whom there is a huge demand—then perhaps our balance is wrong. Let us see if we can invest a little more.

Mike Watson:

I am surprised. I thought that Michael Russell was listening to my speech, but he talked about ghettoising culture. I made the point that the cultural co-ordinators—like them or not—will work throughout the curriculum. They will link with what young people do and will develop general benefits for the learning of young people. There is no question of ghettoising culture—quite the opposite.

Michael Russell:

I do not want to catch the minister not listening to me or me not listening to him. I referred to the potential to ghettoise culture. That has been my objection since the beginning. Further down the road, when I am sitting in the minister's present seat and he is sitting in mine, if it turns out that that potential has not been realised, I shall accept that he was right. Let us wait and see what happens.

My second problem comes from something that the deputy minister for tourism, culture and sport, Dr Elaine Murray, said earlier this year. She announced at the recent art of learning conference in Glasgow that the Executive is developing performance measures for creativity. That sends a shiver down my spine. I know that there are performance measures for creativity. They could be plucked out of the air. The Oscars, the Emmys and the Grammys are perhaps performance measures for creativity. I am worried, however, that we will keep reducing everything that we do to tick boxes. Performance measures for creativity are almost impossible to find. Ian Jenkins—



Michael Russell:

Just one moment, please. I was talking about Ian Jenkins.

Ian Jenkins spoke some time ago at the Education, Culture and Sport Committee about educating the soul as well as the body. I remember that, because much creativity is about educating the soul. I find it difficult to understand how we can apply performance measures to that. The minister may tell me now.

Dr Murray:

Michael Russell's speech is romantic. He surely must agree that unless we have a way of measuring performance we do not know whether we are doing any better. One of the Executive's aims is to improve the educating of creativity and the creativity of pupils. Unless we can measure how successful we are being, how will we know whether we are getting to where we want to be?

Michael Russell:

There are many ways of measuring things. For example, applause for artistic performance is a way of measuring, as is growth, satisfaction and the development of understanding. The minister's fallacy is that everything can be measured and written down on a sheet of paper. Many of the great things, the numinous things in life, cannot be measured in that way. That is what worries me about the performance measures. I am glad that Mr Harper is indicating strong agreement with me.

My third problem with what has been said and written on the matter of culture is the vagueness of many of the Executive's proposals. For example, the document "Scotland's National Cultural Strategy" raises vagueness to an art form. Key priority 3.1 of the document has eight action points, six of which are so vague as to be meaningless. For example, the document uses phrases such as "recognise", "identify" and "ensure that the value". It is continually vague. I am glad that flesh is being put on those bones, but those bones are not new; they are old and they still require a great deal of fleshing out.

We must take culture into the heart of education and make teachers and young people feel alive with creativity. We must open them to all sorts of influences and ensure that education is about releasing the potential of young people, not just to achieve, but to feel, experience and understand.

I did not lodge an amendment because many things are happening that need to be pushed further, faster and with more resources. To that end, I am happy to support the motion. In an even-handed spirit, I shall also support the Tories' amendment, although I am confident that it will fail and that we will end up supporting the Executive motion. I hope that it will honour what it says.

Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD):

I raise my old bones, which are more than adequately fleshed out, to welcome the fact that we are debating this topic, which is of huge importance to everyone who participates in the Scottish education system and our lifelong learning process.

The title of this debate talks of the role of culture in the educational development of young people. When I was a young person, leaving the house on some social occasion, my mother would always say, "Have you got a hankie?" I would say, "Yes," and then she would say, "Remember who you are." That indicates that a sense of self-worth and a recognition of values and standards were expected of members of my family.

When we speak of the role of culture in the educational development of young people in Scotland, we are talking about the establishment of a sense of who we are as a community and a nation. To some extent, our education system is involved in the transmission of culture, as Michael Russell said. That relates to the way in which we use our museums—we spoke last night about the importance of the museums in Dundee—and the way in which we teach history, music, drama and literature, all of which contribute to our national sense of identity and self-worth.

However, education goes further than that. When we teach a piece of literature such as "Sunset Song", we do so partly because it is a fine Scottish novel and part of our heritage, but also because it has special things to offer pupils, not only in relation to the use of language, the way of life in the Mearns, the social structure of the time and the effects of the first world war on remote communities but in relation to lessons about life, self-awareness, growing up, domestic violence, the hypocrisy of the church, the dynamics of small communities and so on. The transmission of culture is not about studying a dead thing but about learning as individuals.

The motion is about not the transmission of culture, but participation in culture. I assume that we are not talking about culture in an exclusive, high-art sense. Culture is about playing music, singing, acting, painting, writing and dancing. It is about the development of creativity and enhancing the lives of individuals who take part in such activities. I do not disagree with the motion when it says that the development of creativity is important for

"Scotland's success in the 21st century".

However, it is through the personal development of young people as thinking and feeling individuals that the benefits of our work in the expressive arts will prove fruitful. If we provide our youngsters with cultural opportunities, we will help to make them happier, more resourceful, more sensitive, more sociable, more inventive and better able to enjoy the rest of their lives. We will raise their self-confidence, help to make them more articulate and enhance their lives in every way. Culture is about not only who we are, but who we can become. We must give children opportunities that will last for the rest of their lives.

I welcome the Scottish Executive's commitment to increase the opportunities that are available to our young people to engage in cultural activities. I welcome the establishment of cultural co-ordinators for schools and I urge ministers to support extra-curricular activities such as youth orchestras, theatre groups and jazz groups. I repeat my belief that music tuition should be provided free. I advocate expanded opportunities in summer schools and clubs, and links between our schools and communities, national companies, and the Scottish Arts Council. We are making progress in that area.

School managers must recognise the importance of cultural activities for the well-being of their pupils and they must take cognisance of that in their timetabling, their staff allocation and their extra-curricular programmes. I hope that our educational debates in and around the Scottish Parliament will result in our acceptance that cultural activities are not add-ons to the real business of schools but are very much at the heart of what education is about.

I support the motion. I agree with the wording of the Conservative amendment, although I agree with very little of what Brian Monteith has said. It is true that more can be done and, in my view, more should be done. We must resource culture and we must do more. We must secure the proper place for such activities in our educational theory and, more important, at the heart of our educational practice.

We move to the open debate. Members have four minutes and I will allow additional time for interventions. It is likely that two speakers will not be called.

Rhona Brankin (Midlothian) (Lab):

I would like to take some time to talk about the importance of arts and culture to the education of individual children. I will go on to discuss the importance of arts and culture in raising the attainment of schools as a whole, before considering the implementation of the cultural strategy and making further suggestions.

It is now well known that language is the vehicle for children's learning. If we consider the importance in the early years of music and rhyme in education, we can understand that arts and culture hold a central place in developing young people's language. If we consider the importance of arts and culture in developing self-confidence and self-esteem, it is clear that arts and culture underpin educational development—it is as central as that. A child without confidence or self-esteem does not learn—it is as simple as that.

I would like to consider the role of culture and the arts in how a school can improve its overall performance. The cumulative effect of young children developing confidence and self-esteem has a knock-on effect on the whole school. If we want to raise the educational performance of the whole school, we must ensure that youngsters have opportunities to participate in arts and culture. When I talk about opportunities to participate, I do not want to concentrate solely on the curriculum that is delivered within the parameters of the school day. We need to consider the wider curriculum, which is commonly called extra-curricular activities. That forms an important part of youngsters' experiences during the time that they attend school.

Young people have a huge variety of experiences in arts and culture and the wider curriculum has massive implications for social inclusion in schools. Some children are given opportunities to develop skills as a result of instrumental tuition being provided for outwith the school, some children have access to museums and art galleries and some children are taken to the theatre and the cinema. However, many children do not have that wider cultural opportunity. Schools and local authorities have a responsibility to ensure that children have as many opportunities as possible.

I support the development of school cultural co-ordinators. I welcome the fact that local authorities will be encouraged to develop local cultural strategies. It is no use if school cultural co-ordinators have to operate in a vacuum. Local authorities must consider the opportunities in their area to develop arts and culture and consider what experiences young people should have.

I would like to consider the idea of schools having the opportunity to develop specialisms in arts and culture. Although I do not agree with Brian Monteith that all that we have to do is give the money to schools—that is far too simplistic an analysis—I think that schools should be encouraged to develop centres of excellence. That is slightly different to the existing concept of specialist schools. I am talking about local comprehensive schools using a specific area of arts and culture to raise attainment as a whole. For example, a school might choose to use the performing arts, so that every child in the school, at some stage in their school career, has an opportunity to take part in the performing arts. The school might choose to specialise in film or video. I believe passionately that such specialisms would encourage and enable schools to raise their whole performance.

In order to do that, we have to consider initial teacher education. I have worked in initial teacher education and interviewed many young people who wanted to become teachers. I am therefore conscious that, when interviewing people who want to become teachers, we have to be clear that they possess the skills and commitment to be able to deliver the required curriculum. It is also important to consider how we train and professionally develop senior managers of schools. It seems to me that arts and culture must be taken seriously at the school level.

I finish by saying to Mike Russell that I am sorry, but the tartan ghettoisation of culture that he portrayed was fairly characteristic of him. His high-flown and vague contribution to the debate, when he described the cultural strategy as being high-flown and vague, was typical. He had nothing more to offer, as we can tell by the fact that he has not lodged an amendment. I am glad that there is no SNP amendment and I am delighted to be able to support the Executive's motion today.

Linda Fabiani (Central Scotland) (SNP):

I was going to be terribly nice, but I might change my mind.

It has been a long time since we debated the national cultural strategy in the chamber, and I took part in that debate. Although I expressed disappointment—along with many others—at the lack of substance in that strategy, I welcomed the strategy document's reflection of culture as part of the education portfolio.

Strategic objective 3, which Mike Russell talked about, obviously promoted culture as part of education. Section 5 acknowledged that education and culture are inextricably linked and expressed a wish to extend young people's opportunities to learn musical instruments within and outwith the school setting.

I am not convinced that we have moved much further forward than merely wishing on the issue of instrument tuition. The Executive has now pledged to work with education authorities to maximise opportunities for instrument tuition in schools and make it free for those who are unable to pay. The minister has spoken about the guidance leaflet and about the pilot projects that will include music, I assume.

Will the member take an intervention?

Linda Fabiani:

Not yet, thank you.

However, it is still the case that half of our local authorities charge for instrument tuition. The charges vary widely, from £50 a year to £249 a year. The spending proposals included a new commitment to support music tuition for children, to widen access and to improve their quality of life.

Today the minister has spoken about a review and a group that has been set up. Will one of the ministers expand later on whether they are considering funding for free music tuition throughout the schools in our country to complement the work of the cultural co-ordinators? Will the minister also confirm that Scottish traditional music, including voice, dance and storytelling, is being seen as part of the strategy in schools? That cannot be confirmed often enough in my opinion.

When reading today's motion, I was struck by the lack of substance, as I was when I read the national cultural strategy. That is reflected by the fact that the motion was so easily accepted by my knowledgeable and learned colleague on my left, Mike Russell. I was also struck by the realisation that we have an Executive that seems to have a terrible need for self-validation; we have a Government that needs constant reassurance about its worth.

We have a motion with which it is hard to disagree, but it evokes a sense of disappointment and frustration all the same. No real debate has been invited. Let us take a look at the motion. Education is good. Yes, we all agree with that. Participation in cultural activities is good. We all agree on that. We agree that cultural activities make a valuable contribution to educational attainment. Scotland has a rich and vibrant culture; we all know that. There is lots of agreement, but we need evidence of the Executive's commitment to increasing the opportunities for all young people to take action to engage with Scotland's rich and vibrant culture.

Cathie Craigie:

Linda Fabiani asks for evidence. Earlier, she spoke about the involvement of young people in music. As she represents Central Scotland constituency, is she aware of the music tuition in North Lanarkshire Council's area? Hundreds of young people in that area take part in music. In fact, they are so good that they are able to stage concerts with 500 young people at Glasgow Royal Concert Hall. That is evidence that what she asks for is happening on the ground.

Linda Fabiani:

I thank Cathie Craigie, because she has moved me on nicely to the next part of my speech.

Evidence exists that participation is wanted. It exists outwith the Government and outwith the Parliament. It is in the area of North Lanarkshire Council, which is doing an excellent job, and it is in South Lanarkshire. It is in the schools and community projects that are already providing cultural education, but with limited resources. It is in the amount of cultural events that take place in our communities. It is in the increasing number of authors who are writing poetry and prose in their traditional languages. Young writers such as Matthew Fitt and Scott Borthwick are joining the ranks of well-established writers who use Scots—for example, Janet Paisley, who has been plugging away for years. Last night, at a Napier University reception, there was a lively conversation about writers' and artists' increased use of their traditional culture. We have to maximise that and promote it.

Although we support Brian Monteith's amendment, I cannot let pass his statement that we should take cultural funding away from local authorities. Cathie Craigie mentioned the good work that some local authorities are doing. I am sure that, given the appropriate funding, local authorities will be glad to employ sufficient people to take the message forward.

Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green):

I agree with much of what Brian Monteith, Ian Jenkins and Mike Russell said. Mike Russell used the word "numinous", which is a good word. I agree that we need far more peripatetic teachers in primary schools. I suggest that in Scotland we need between 500 and 1,000 more peripatetic teachers of art, music, physical education and other subjects.

I agree with Ian Jenkins's list of the benefits that pupils derive from participation in the arts, for example, sociability, self-confidence, adaptability, initiative, articulateness, empathy, rhythm, colour and spatial awareness. Those are all to be encouraged.

I agree with Mike Russell that culture is numinous. It cannot and should not always be measured. Trying to deliver culture through a curriculum that is already overcrowded and then measuring it is not the best way forward for culture in Scotland.

I say to Rhona Brankin that when the Scottish Arts Council lobbied us today, it asked us not to measure everything, and to allow the arts to stand on their own as an essential part of what happens in our schools and society. Anything else that justifies the inclusion of the arts in the school curriculum is simply peripheral.

Rhona Brankin:

Does Robin Harper acknowledge that greater numbers of young people are now opting to study standard grade music and other arts subjects? Does he acknowledge that having the opportunity to study such subjects, and achieving recognition and qualifications in those subjects, is vital to delivering job opportunities for youngsters? To say that we should not measure those subjects is touchingly naive.

Robin Harper:

I remain touchingly naive. I will not be deterred from that. I am not for one minute suggesting that we should restrict the opportunities for children and young people to study music and art in schools. However, there are blocks to that, because in far too many secondary schools art and music are in the same column when it comes to choosing subjects, so that children find that they can only do either art or music. That is an artificial and unsupportable restriction on the full development of many of our young people. Many of our jazz bands started in art colleges, not in music colleges. There is a synergy between art and music that we do not fully recognise in the structure of our secondary education.

If I may misquote from the Beatles' "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds", there are not enough holes in the sky for the rain of culture to percolate through, to irrigate and to let flower the minds of our young people.

Back in the 1980s, in the big fight that teachers had with the Government to get decent pay, the Educational Institute of Scotland withdrew good will. I am afraid that my union withdrew good will. I am not sure whether we have fully recovered from that. It is incumbent on the Executive not simply to give teachers the conditions for which they have fought for so long, but to examine the ways in which schools are managed and to consider how to release teachers' creativity. Teachers should be given less in the way of marking, assessments and form filling and should be allowed more room to do their real job, which is to educate our young people.

Such reductions would leave teachers with the energy to work in a purely voluntary capacity in their lunch hours and after school, as used to happen. There was real culture in our schools 30 years ago. It is dribbling away and is being compressed by the curriculum and the management of our schools.

Mr Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con):

Yesterday, I attended a briefing by the Highland Council, during which the Inverness-Highland bid to be the European capital of culture in 2008 was discussed. Highland Council is making a pledge to its young people that they will be able to participate in sports and games for at least six hours a week. It has also pledged to provide a programme of free music tuition in schools and free attendance for children and young people at cultural events that visit Inverness and the surrounding area.

The programme is scheduled for 2003 and 2004. It is hoped that, by 2005, the area will have a class of young people who are physically fitter and more culturally aware than was the case previously. The programme represents part of the area's preparation for 2008, but even if the Inverness-Highland bid is not successful, it will have acted as an incentive from which many young people will benefit. I wish the Highland Council every success with its bid and with its attempt to engage young people more fully in sport and culture from an early age, so that they will reap the physical and mental benefits that those extra-curricular activities will undoubtedly bring them in later life.

On Tuesday morning, I attended a meeting on finance in sports at Murrayfield stadium. I learned much about what investors look for—quick profits and instant success. That is all very well for investors, shareholders and those who aspire to become stars, but it does little to encourage participation by the present generation of young people who, the media tell us, are suffering increasingly from obesity, which is partly the result of inactivity—watching too much television while eating potato chips on their couches.

Doctors tell us that inactivity is one of the greatest killers. Is not it ironic that young people, rather than participating in the beautiful game that is a huge part of Scottish culture, are growing obese from watching football coverage that is interspersed with advertisements to eat and drink unhealthy junk products? My point is that watching is not enough. Participation is the key and it is much more fun, whether in football, music, drama or anything that requires the physical and mental activity that results from individuals mixing with peers in an atmosphere of healthy competition and team effort.

Although we might think of society as benevolent, the reality of society for many young people in Scotland means unhappy homes with long-term unemployed parents who see no hope of betterment. Those young people experience violence, drug taking and other crime. In a society in which the media promote stardom as being everything, such young people might regard supplying drugs and prostitution as a way of funding a better life and, as a result, might do something that could harm themselves and society.

Deprivation occurs in rural areas just as much as it does in the inner cities. That is why culture, or extra-curricular slices of life's cake, are so important. Intellectual culture is an outlet for expressive talent, and the rules of our physical culture allow for positive and controlled emotional outlets for aggression, hate, anger and loneliness—the things that can turn young people's dreams into nightmares.

There will soon be an international conference in Sao Paolo in Brazil on the importance of play for children. Brazilians understand the link between young people's early play and culture. That is how culture develops—the Brazilians do not have a bad football team either, by the way.

Culture should grow from local communities. I therefore urge the Scottish Executive to support community efforts for young people's recreational centres, which can promote culture. There are good examples of that, from Ness in the north of Lewis to Reidvale adventure playground in Dennistoun in Glasgow. I am glad to see that Sandbank community near Dunoon is planning a young people's recreation centre. I wish it every success.

Please wind up.

I am just finishing.

The Sandbank centre is a follow-on from an establishment of the Sandbank youth community council. I have a short letter—

You do not have time to read out a letter, but you can circulate it to members later.

Thank you, Presiding Officer.

John Farquhar Munro (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) (LD):

It is obvious from the tone of the debate that everybody accepts the importance of culture in the education of our children. We should in no way understate that importance. Sadly, with the increasing emphasis on the ability to pass exams and the continuing obsession with monitoring the educational performance of our young children, many cultural activities in our schools have been marginalised. Scottish dance and tuition in drama and music form only a small proportion of what our children can learn to appreciate during their educational journey, but such things are not readily available.

Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):

Does John Farquhar Munro agree that Fèis Rois provides a tremendous cultural experience for primary and secondary school pupils and even for adults? Fèis Rois has close links to the educational establishment in Ross-shire. Things surely cannot be better anywhere else in the country.

John Farquhar Munro:

I accept that a lot is happening, but much more could be done. As Robin Harper pointed out, we have a situation in which pupils must choose between music and another cultural subject. To me, that is detrimental to the education and cultural benefit of the individual.

I suggest that, before they leave, pupils should have had an opportunity to discover the delight that is to be found in reading and in listening to and participating in music and the visual arts. It is clear that not everyone will develop a liking for all forms of art, but there will be a few who, once introduced, will find a lifelong interest. It is important that cultural matters in education are not so categorised, because they are undoubtedly linked to our country's proud history and its geography.

Michael Russell:

John Farquhar Munro makes an important point. One place in Scotland where I saw that happening is Plockton High School, which John Farquhar Munro knows well. Thanks to the school's combination of Gaelic and debating—as the member knows, the school won the Gaelic debating contest—and its specialist centre in traditional music, Plockton High School has a general ethos that brings together culture and art. I am sure that John Farquhar Munro and I can celebrate that achievement, but the question is, how do we replicate it?

John Farquhar Munro:

I am pleased to accept that Plockton High School is a school of excellence in language, culture and music. As Mike Russell said, we should have more of that throughout the Highlands.

In the Highland context, the Gaelic language is the key to opening the door to Gaelic culture. Without knowing the language, its culture will remain alien to most. That is a great pity. It is encouraging that the proposed new Gaelic-medium school in Inverness will go ahead in the not too distant future. I am proud to say that the proposal will receive substantial support from the Executive.

However, the fact unfortunately remains that the number of Gaelic speakers in Scotland is in decline. That is a sad admission. We need more Gaelic teachers and we need to invest money in their training. Above all, we need to give secure status to the language. What impetus do students have to learn Gaelic without the promise of employment at the end of their degree? Gaelic teachers are dependent on the whim of the local authorities. When the local authorities come to set their annual budgets, they may decide that the services of Gaelic teachers are not required. That provides no encouragement at all and is far from a strategy of recruitment. We may try to blame the local authorities but, at the end of the day, Gaelic is the responsibility of the Parliament.

Education has the responsibility of teaching children to pass exams but, equally, it has the responsibility of teaching them to enjoy life. If we do not teach children language, music and dance during their education, the whole system will be impoverished, to the detriment of our very young people, and we will reduce their ability to develop and appreciate their diverse and rich cultural heritage. I am pleased to support Lord Watson's motion.

Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab):

The debate represents the convergence of two important and interdependent strands of Scottish Executive strategy. To improve education, we need for many reasons to give arts and culture a bigger and more pivotal role. Equally, the health of Scottish arts and culture rests on the development and involvement of children and young people. The Education, Culture and Sport Committee's inquiry and the national debate on education have repeatedly highlighted the importance of developing children's confidence and self-esteem. I am afraid that I share Mike Russell's concern about performance indicators. If there are performance indicators that can measure children's confidence, self-esteem and good feelings about themselves, I will support them.

There are.

Cathy Peattie:

I will need to see them.

We must emphasise the important role of the arts in achieving such aims, and the importance of arts and culture in many aspects of children's development. Culture is an underused tool. Too often, it is regarded as an add-on—enjoyable, but peripheral. Arts and culture should be an integral part of education, in the mainstream. The arts are a medium for understanding the world—and not merely as observers. Children—aye, and grown-ups—need to participate in cultural activities.

There is a need for diversity in the arts, but amid that rich tapestry we need to emphasise the cultural heritage of the society in which our children live. Language and oral traditions, passed on through music and stories, are essential to children's understanding of who they are and where they come from. As Ian Jenkins said, knowing who they are is important in children's development. Wider access to the arts and culture in education is important for social inclusion. A lack of familiarity with the arts and culture is a barrier to social cohesion.

The Scottish Executive has committed money for cultural co-ordinators and a number of members have expressed concern about the direction that was being taken. I am pleased to see the applications that have come in from local authorities up and down the country. I look forward to seeing the results of that and I welcome Mike Watson's indication that the initiative will continue for a further two years, because it is really important that such projects get the opportunity to prove what they can do. The posts that are being created are about moving culture higher up the agenda in schools, and about facilitating input from practitioners outside schools. We have seen excellent examples of local authorities bringing in practitioners to schools to give children and young people the opportunity to participate in and understand art.

I would like to say a wee bit about schools of excellence. I spent a weekend with the young people of Plockton High School and was impressed by the confidence and skills that those young folk were gaining. I can testify to the high standards not only of those who work with the children, but of the musicianship, performance, studio work and the commercial side. However, as Mike Russell said earlier, it is important to acknowledge that the Plockton project is part of a comprehensive school. All the benefits for the school as a whole should be measured. Rhona Brankin has suggested that things are happening, but let us see more of such things.

Other schools that specialise in modern languages, music, traditional music and sport have been established in Fife, Glasgow, Ayrshire and throughout Scotland. I welcome the inclusion of arts in schools. We have to consider how we can encourage participation in arts. An additional £14 million is being invested to support specialised schools for children who have particular talents. It will be interesting to see how that progresses. We need to support high standards in local schools and we need to make room for children and young people to participate informally in the arts—that is vital.

We need also to consider community arts and popular education. Clearly, we need to promote arts in our communities—not just in schools but across the board. I support the motion.

Fiona McLeod (West of Scotland) (SNP):

I must use up a few of my seconds by declaring my registered interest, no longer as an associate of the Library Association, but as a member of the Chartered Institute of Library and Information Professionals. From that, members will not be surprised to learn that I will talk about the role of literature in the cultural education of our young people. I will talk about the joy of reading, the pleasure that it gives each individual, the literacy skills that it teaches each child and the creativity skills with which it endows every child who reads.

Scotland has a long and rich literary tradition of which we should all be proud. I am sure that all members join me in expressing concern at the demise of Cawdor Book Services Ltd, which was the last independent Scottish bookseller providing books to Scottish libraries.

I will talk about the unique role of the literary co-ordinators who are already in our schools. Ninety per cent of our secondary schools have those literary co-ordinators—they are called school librarians. School librarians do not just provide books; they promote literature and reading to all our pupils. They promote it through formal lessons, in their lunch times and through reading circles and literary clubs.

I bring members' attention to the Scottish writers project of 2000, which took Scottish titles into every school library in the country. Those titles were selected by pupils and were accompanied by a British Academy of Film and Television Arts award-winning CD-ROM that encouraged pupils to explore books and reading. I make a plea that that should not stop at the Scottish writers project 2000, but that we look forward to introducing the Scottish writers project into primary schools which, I understand, would cost £750,000. I suggest that that money could come from the £1.75 million that has been set aside for cultural co-ordinators. The SNP does not like to make promises about money without saying where we would obtain it. Using the £1.75 million, I suggest that we extend the Scottish writers project to primaries, and for the princely sum of £742,140, we could make up the shortfall of 31 school librarians that we need to bring coverage up to 100 per cent of our secondary schools.

Will the member give way?

Do I have time?

The intervention should be brief.

Will Fiona McLeod confirm that that will be a firm commitment in the SNP's manifesto, and that it will be costed in due course?

I am not sure whether that intervention was worth the time.

Fiona McLeod:

I am asking the minister nicely, because he is the man with the money now, and I want the school librarians now. The literary culture of our country needs those school librarians now, so please, go on—make the commitment.

We should also consider the early years. I recently received a letter from the deputy minister's colleague Cathy Jamieson, who asked me to be a reading champion and to participate in the home reading initiative. Do not worry—I will. I am a champion of reading. However, for the princely sum of £766,080, we could provide three professionals for each local authority, who could provide for pre-five, primary school and special needs. Those professionals would be librarians who could work in those sectors.

I make a plea to the minister, but I also bring it to members' attention that school librarians have a vital role in the promotion of literary culture. The debate has shown that we feel strongly that we want our young people to be part of that rich literary scene.

I apologise to two members who were on my screen as having asked to speak but whom I do not have time to call. We will go to closing speeches.

Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD):

Because I was recently in Russia for four days, a strong rumour went round the Liberal Democrat group that the coalition whips had at last triumphed and I had been sent to Siberia. I did not go as far as that—I was firming up arrangements for Edinburgh Youth Orchestra's tour of four Baltic countries to celebrate its 40th anniversary.

Edinburgh Youth Orchestra is one of the peaks of youthful creative enterprise in Scotland, but peaks need foothills and solid rocks underneath them, so we need good school orchestras, good local authority school orchestras and good musical tuition. We are still seriously lacking those. We debated musical tuition a month or two ago. There is still a problem about providing enough musical tuition and about how it is charged for. The manager of another youth orchestra told me that he finds that almost all the people who qualify for his orchestra have had private tuition, because they do not get enough from their school. There is nothing wrong with hiring private tutors, but we should have a society in which people do not have to do that to get ahead.

We need money to back up our good intentions, and it has to go right to the front, to real people doing real jobs. Somebody teaching the bassoon to a pupil for an hour really achieves something; somebody in an office does not necessarily achieve the same amount. As well as money, we need attitude. There is an attitude in Scottish society that art and culture are an add-on and, regrettably, that attitude prevails in certain staff rooms in certain schools. We must make quite sure that arts are fundamental to our whole way of life.

The debate has concentrated on schools, but I think that we want also to consider communities. There is great scope for developing arts in the community, through encouraging more people to run groups, set up organisations and teach people. The arts, in all forms, can make a great contribution to the development of communities. In many parts of Scotland, gardening is the most creative thing that many adults do. There are majorettes, and small girls find that an excellent outlet. There are pop groups making popular music, and one local authority in my area even—perhaps foolishly—asked me to judge a competition that it had promoted. The value of the community in developing the arts is that it attracts creative young people. Many young people who get into trouble do so because their creativity is stifled and goes into the wrong sort of things; they are quite creative about their minor criminal activities. If we had a really good outlet for them, through drama groups, bands, orchestras, art and literature, they would be better people and would not get involved in the problems.

As other members said, most Scots are woefully ignorant of Scottish history and culture. We need to repair that and to build on the excellent Scottish cultural traditions we have and on the ethnic immigrant traditions, which have a great deal to contribute. In many places, that is done well, but it could have a lot more support.

I urge the Executive not to go into measuring everything. There are some things that can be measured, but one cannot measure the richness of life or the richness of a culture that is given to young people. Many of the most memorable things that most of us experienced at school or at other times in our lives were not measurable. Let us go for quality; let us recognise that peer-group recognition is worth while. But ticking boxes—for God's sake, no.

The Deputy Presiding Officer:

I must apologise to the Labour party business manager for the error that we have made in calling speakers for the closing round. That will be apparent when I call Nicol Stephen to close for the Executive and the Labour party. The whips will explain that.

I call Murdo Fraser to close for the Conservatives.

Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):

In previous debates, the Conservatives have expressed scepticism about the idea of a national cultural strategy; we do not think that one can plan culture. Surely culture is something that is organic and grows naturally. The last thing that it needs is politicians meddling with it and trying to promote their own ideas. That perhaps explains why we lodged an amendment to today's motion. The amendment seeks to achieve something important, in that it stresses the importance of schools in the process of promoting culture among young people. We must examine the school curriculum. We do not need a top-down approach, but we must provide more opportunities to schools, which can then make decisions at local level about which parts of culture they buy into.

During the debate, a number of different aspects of culture have been referred to and I shall cover as many as I can in the time available. John Farquhar Munro talked about Gaelic-medium education, and I warmly endorse what he said. I would like to see a much greater roll-out of Gaelic-medium education throughout Scotland where there is parental demand, such as there is in Edinburgh, where parents want their own Gaelic-medium school, but are being denied it by the local authority.

We want Scottish traditional music to be encouraged in schools. Michael Russell referred to piping. Many independent schools offer piping tuition and, as a result, have successful pipe bands, which compete internationally. It is much more difficult to get piping tuition in the state system. I am sure that we would all benefit from improved standards of piping, bearing in mind the standard of some of the pipers on the Royal Mile, who blast out continually outside our office windows.

We should also consider the role of instrument teachers. I remember a debate a few months ago about how the McCrone settlement sought to impose some conditions on instrumental teachers. Some of them felt that that would be to their detriment.

I should also mention Scottish traditional dance. I lodged a motion on that subject some months ago, which members from different parties were kind enough to support. We have a mixed record in dance, with some schools and authorities being very good at including it as part of the physical education curriculum, while others are not so good. Dance is something that we should cherish because, if someone goes to a ceilidh and is asked to do "The Reel of the 51st Division" and does not have a clue what they are doing, it is useful at least to have a background.

Donald Gorrie mentioned Scottish history, which is a particular interest of mine. It is depressing that, even now, some people still think that Culloden was a battle between the Scots and the English. I remember my grandmother telling me that when she was taught Scottish history at school, all she ever learned about was the Highland clearances—my grandmother was born in 1892. At the end of last year I was at a primary school where the pupils were doing a history project. Guess what it was on? The Highland clearances. I do not have a problem with pupils learning about the Highland clearances, but we tend to overemphasise the black periods in our history. We do not want young people growing up with a sense that the Scots are victims all the time. Let us also look at the good things in our history and remember the great role that the Scots have played in developing the United Kingdom and, indeed, the empire.

There is also a role for specialist schools of the arts, drama and music. St Mary's Music School in Edinburgh is extremely successful. What does it do? It selects on the basis of ability. There is a lesson to be learned there.

I think that schools ought to be the prime drivers in promoting culture to our young people, but it is up to the schools themselves, to their heads and to school boards how to prioritise. Some will wish more emphasis to be placed on culture than others do. What we do not need is a prescriptive, top-down approach.

I say to Linda Fabiani that, when we talk about taking money away from local authorities, what we of course mean is that the money should be given directly to the schools, rather than routed through the education authorities. Let us give freedom to schools, and let us allow the decisions to be taken at the grass roots. That is the best way to promote culture.

This has, by and large, been a positive debate.

Go on!

Michael Russell:

It is nice to be applauded by the minister before I have properly started. Clearly, he is excited at the prospect of hearing from me. It is very comforting to know that he is in my fan club.

Although it has been a positive debate, there have been one or two difficulties with it. I return to the difficulty with the Tory amendment. I still do not know what the Tories are arguing for. The amendment reads entirely well, and is worthy of support for that reason alone, but I do not quite understand why they are trying to make a difference when they should be trying to support and encourage change. I do not think that the Executive has gone nearly far enough. It is worth pushing it a little to ensure that it keeps moving along the road.

There has been only one exception to this being a positive debate: I am sorry that Rhona Brankin could not resist her visceral hatred of the Scottish National Party. It was unfortunate. It was a tiresome ending to her speech, the first two thirds of which were positive, constructive and contained a useful analysis. If she could overcome that visceral hatred, perhaps she would no longer be an ex-minister. Other contributions to the debate contained strong, positive points. I wish to pick up on two or three of them.

The key question is the assessment or monitoring of cultural activity or progress. The key word—Donald Gorrie used it and I think that he used it properly—is "assessing" the impact of cultural education. It is not about monitoring or evaluating and it is certainly not about tick boxing; it is about assisting young children in building, developing and improving their activities and their lives through education and culture.

The most recent academic survey into the effectiveness of arts in education shows that 10 clear positive outcomes are attributable to arts education. As Cathy Peattie indicated, those outcomes cannot be measured on a scale of one to 10. One such positive outcome is improved creativity and thinking skills. I know that all the members of the Education, Culture and Sport Committee have talked a lot about developing thinking skills in schools. Other positive outcomes include the enrichment of communication and expressive skills and the general effects that the positive nature of cultural education and culture in education have on the school and community. None of those are matters that we can number one to 10 or for which we can draw up a list of boxes and mark them "pass" or "fail". Let us assess the impact; let us not go down the road of destructive tick-box government, which ruins so much.

Let us also remember one other matter, which has not been mentioned in the debate and which should have been. The reality is that the arts produce £5 billion for the Scottish economy and provide something like 100,000 jobs. Sometimes those jobs are precarious but there are jobs in the arts. One of the biggest barriers to growing and developing the arts is parents' feeling that employment in the arts will not be worth while. Introducing culture and arts education at an early stage in schools helps young people to see the potential of the arts as a career and as a future life path. In those circumstances, there are positive benefits to be had from the type of thing that the Executive is talking about.

Many interesting speeches have been made. Jamie McGrigor took us from football to prostitution by way of potato chips. That was an unusual journey.

The one point that will stick in my mind is the fact that there is good will throughout the chamber for ensuring that culture is at the heart of education. That can unite us rather than divide us, but only if strong and positive progress is made. It must be progress that we can feel and understand and not necessarily progress that we can measure in the way that the minister wants to do. We must feel, understand and know that the ultimate effect of what we are talking about is that Scotland will be a better place. That seems to be a modest ambition, but I am sure that it is one to which we could all sign up. I am sorry that Rhona Brankin is still shaking her head and is unable to agree across the chamber in the interests of education and young people in Scotland. She still wants to go back to visceral dislike.

The Deputy Minister for Education and Young People (Nicol Stephen):

I will start with Brian Monteith. He said that he profoundly disagreed with the Executive and then went on to compliment the Executive on a lot of things that are being done. I profoundly disagree with Brian Monteith's analysis of what we are trying to achieve in education, but I agree that we do not want to impose more top-down initiatives from the centre. I agree that we want action at the local level.

The teachers to whom I speak say that they want more support. They do not want direction from the centre; they want specialist advice. They feel that more support could be given to ordinary classroom teachers to help to develop their skills, knowledge, competence and confidence. A lot of what we are doing in continuing professional development should address that matter. I hope that many developments in CPD will focus on cultural initiatives. I say to Brian Monteith that I believe that the initiatives that we are taking with the cultural co-ordinators are extremely important and are welcomed by classroom teachers throughout Scotland.

Mr Monteith:

Does the minister concede that there is a clear difference between peripatetic teachers—who are qualified and able to teach specialisms such as art and music and who can assist the classroom teacher, particularly in primary schools, by encouraging pupils and teaching them—and cultural commissars, as I call them, who advise on the programmes that should be tried and introduced but do not teach?

Nicol Stephen:

Brian Monteith misunderstands what we are trying to achieve. Of course, we still want teachers to have specialist expertise. However, many classroom teachers do not feel confident—not only in the cultural aspect of the curriculum, but in areas such as science and modern languages, especially in primary education. It is extremely important that we provide the support on the ground to encourage them to develop their skills.

Cathy Peattie:

Does the minister agree that bringing practitioners into classrooms—for example, people who are involved in the traditional arts—to work alongside children, young people and their teachers, would be much more helpful than bringing a specialist along?

Nicol Stephen:

I am happy to agree with that. That is important, and we need to encourage more of that.

Unusually, Mike Russell wants to encourage the Executive to do better. I am sure that ministers will welcome his supportive encouragement. He had a flow of consciousness, just as many great movies have. Today, it was about his tartan lapel badge. Then, despite his supportiveness, he went on to be sceptical, concerned and worried. Nevertheless, I am sure that ministers welcome his support for the motion and recognise the spirit in which that support was offered.

Ian Jenkins—remember who you are?—spoke memorably and with passion about who he was. He also spoke memorably about the importance of culture and the need to encourage more young people in art, drama, music, writing, painting and dancing, not only within the strict school curriculum but out of school. He talked about educating and growing the individual, and about realising the dreams of young people and the nation. That is the way in which we must discuss the issue: we must raise our sights and have vision and ambition for Scotland. That is what the national debate on education should achieve. None of those things should be add-ons; they should be at the heart of our education system.

When I visited one of the new schools in Rosshall, Glasgow, earlier today, I was pleased to see excellent drama, sporting and other facilities. The school has a drama facility of the sort that I would not have dreamed of when I was young. It is reminiscent of a TV studio and creates a focus on drama in the school and a real excitement among the young people there.

Rhona Brankin made a good speech about the central role of schools. It is important to emphasise to Brian Monteith that, although we attach a central importance to our schools, we also recognise the role that local authorities and national initiatives can play. We must be sparking, delivering and achieving at all those levels if we are to do the best for Scotland. That is how we want to operate—with the right support, the right funding and the right action at all levels. Rhona Brankin mentioned the particular importance of initial teacher education, which is vital. We must address the skills and aptitude of teachers.

To Robin Harper, I say that restoring good will and releasing the creativity of our teachers, thereby restoring their drive and energy, are what the McCrone agreement was all about. Those things are what all members, across parties, are trying to achieve.

We have talked a lot about culture, creativity and confidence. It is important that we make our schools more exciting and fun places. To do that, we must deliver on our cultural strategy's many aspects in the work that we undertake in education. We will work best in partnership, with classroom teachers and parents. Fiona McLeod mentioned some of the initiatives that she would like to see. I welcome the accuracy and tightness of the detailed costings that she gave.

Parents also have a central role. We all must pull together to achieve all that we want for our young people, whether during the school day our outside it.

I hope that there will be cross-party support for the final motion. Brian Monteith has moved an amendment to that motion. I hope that, once that amendment is disagreed to, the motion will receive support from all parties. The issue is one on which we can unite. It is crucial for Scotland's future and the future of our young people.