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Chamber and committees

Plenary, 15 Dec 2005

Meeting date: Thursday, December 15, 2005


Contents


Question Time


SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE


General Questions


Schools (Co-operative Principles)

To ask the Scottish Executive what action is being taken to promote the teaching of co-operative principles in schools. (S2O-8475)

The Executive's determined to succeed team is working with the Co-operative Education Trust Scotland on the development of a comprehensive co-operative enterprise in education project in schools.

Bill Butler:

I welcome the minister's encouraging response. Does he agree that there is more to enterprise than individual entrepreneurship? Does he recognise the need to encourage enterprise education in which more emphasis is given to the co-operative model of common ownership and which teaches young people not only about the benefits that enterprise can bring them as individuals, but about the benefits that can accrue to their local community and the wider world?

Peter Peacock:

I support the principle behind what Bill Butler says. He is quite right that there is more to enterprise than individual entrepreneurship, although we want to see all sorts of enterprising activity in our schools. A lot is going on in that regard, some of which I mentioned in my first answer. In addition, 10 schools are active in the young co-operatives pilot scheme and 30 schools have co-operative businesses. On Monday, I visited a school in which young people are organising a series of enterprise projects and, a couple of weeks ago, I visited a school in which there was a similar range of activity. Schools now undertake a range of initiatives and our focus on citizenship education is adding to young people's belief in the importance of co-operation in a general sense as well as in an enterprising sense.


NHS Western Isles

2. Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive what conclusions have been reached by NHS Scotland about concerns raised at public meetings in Stornoway on 30 November and 1 December 2005 in respect of the financial and clinical governance of NHS Western Isles. (S2O-8426)

The Minister for Health and Community Care (Mr Andy Kerr):

I conducted the annual review of NHS Western Isles in public in Stornoway on 12 September. At that time, the board's chairman gave me his personal assurances in relation to action to restore financial balance as quickly as possible and to maintain safe, high-quality and sustainable services for Western Isles residents. It is now for the board to deliver on the assurances that were given to me and for everyone to work together in the best interests of patient care in the Western Isles.

Rob Gibson:

I wonder whether the minister understands what is behind the widespread public disquiet and fears about the future of NHS Western Isles. Does he recognise the underlying staff concern that the chairman and chief executive are not the appropriate officers to deal with the 90-page dossier that was put together by the Institute of Healthcare Management, as that would place those gentlemen, Messrs Currie and Manson, in the role of judge and jury? Will he help the people of the Western Isles to achieve a breakthrough by setting up an external inquiry to restore staff harmony and a common purpose in the delivery of high-quality health services based in the Western Isles?

Mr Kerr:

Judging by your ill-informed and ill-advised comments, we are much more in touch with the issue than you are. Moreover, you have come somewhat belatedly to the matter. I have been focusing on the issue for a number of months, unlike you, who have been focusing on it for a matter of weeks. I will take the side of patients and not any interests—vested or otherwise—on the board. Your misplaced comments inappropriately seek to bolster one side of the debate. I advise you very strongly to take cognisance of other voices in the Western Isles in relation to these matters, including some very senior councillors who have written to their colleagues about the conduct of those meetings. Are you aware that, although members of the health board were invited by the organisers to attend those meetings, they were unable to do so?

Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con):

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Surely the minister should know by now that "you" means the Presiding Officer. He has used the terms "you" and "your" throughout his answer. Surely it is time that the minister recognised the procedures of the Parliament.

With respect, Presiding Officer, the comment was directed at me around the issue raised by the member about my role and his and my knowledge of the matter.

Mr Alasdair Morrison (Western Isles) (Lab):

During a recent visit to the Western Isles, the minister saw for himself the first-class care that is experienced by patients in the islands. However, he will be aware of the concerns of some members of staff about their continued employment. Will he reassure me and my constituents that any redesign of services will not result in a diminution of services or job losses?

Mr Kerr:

That has been a continuing concern, but the board has made its view clear. As recently as 15 December, the hospital manager pledged that there would be no staff redundancies and no effect on the quality of care. We are focusing on the wrong place for this debate. NHS Western Isles recently got renal dialysis facilities, it has retained and improved maternity services and it has an efficiently run hospital with redesign under way. Moreover, radiography services and telemedicine have improved and joint working with the local authority is going well, as is the dental practice that I visited. Therefore, I suggest to Alasdair Morrison that the services not only are safe and secure, but are being developed positively for patients.

Mr Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con):

It has been reported that NHS Western Isles failed to report costs accurately and made late adjustments to its accounts. In that light, what will be done to strengthen financial management in NHS Western Isles? Will the minister reassure the public that the health board will not go down the same path as NHS Argyll and Clyde, which, as we know, lost £80 million of public money?

Mr Kerr:

I can reassure the member through you, Presiding Officer, that I do not equate those two boards when it comes to financial and mismanagement issues. In the Western Isles, financial systems are now in place to support financial recovery. The board officials will meet the Health Department either today or tomorrow to discuss the financial recovery plans. I am absolutely certain that the board will continue to deliver high-quality services and that the Health Department will support it in doing so. I am confident about the future outlook for NHS Western Isles.


Green-belt Land

To ask the Scottish Executive what action it is taking to monitor the amount of green-belt land being rezoned for housing in new structure plans. (S2O-8459)

The Minister for Communities (Malcolm Chisholm):

Structure plans do not allocate sites for development. The allocation of specific sites for development is a matter for local plans. The Scottish Executive does not actively monitor the amount of green-belt land that is allocated for housing in local plans.

Donald Gorrie:

Does the minister accept that it would be helpful to have more factual information when he prepares the bill to improve the planning system? It would help to know the extent of the invasion of the green belt, which concerns many people, so that he could decide what sort of inducements should be offered to councils to make more use of brown-field sites or to jump over the green belt and develop in the communities beyond it. Some factual information would also be a helpful start in considering when some intrusion into the green belt should be allowed.

Malcolm Chisholm:

In general, the amount of green-belt land has increased in most relevant places over the past 20 years, with the big exception of Aberdeen. We take the green belt seriously, which is why we issued a draft Scottish planning policy on it in the summer. We have received 170 responses, which we will look at carefully before we issue the final SPP. The SPP aims to strengthen and enhance the role of the green belt and to encourage greater stability to increase its effectiveness. That will improve the quality of life for local people and manage land carefully to guide growth of our settlements.

There should continue to be a strong presumption against development in the green belt. Where it is considered necessary, the proposed release of green-belt land should be developed as part of a long-term strategy in the development plan. In that way, local people can engage closely with the process at an early stage in view of our proposals for involvement in development planning.

Has the minister consulted the Minister for Education and Young People on the impact of the roll-out of the public-private partnership schools programme, which will result in the loss of green amenity space as well as sports fields?

Malcolm Chisholm:

That matter is being looked at in the context of specific planning applications. As I said in my previous answer, we take the green belt seriously. The new SPP will ensure that a long-term view is taken of the green belt and that local people are involved in decisions at an early stage.


Racial Discrimination (Public Sector Agencies)

To ask the Scottish Executive what lessons public sector agencies can learn from recent cases of racial discrimination upheld by the Court of Session. (S2O-8494)

The Minister for Communities (Malcolm Chisholm):

Although significant advances have been made in the past few years to tackle race discrimination, those cases provide a stark reminder to all employers, not just those in the public sector, of the need to ensure that they are not unlawfully discriminating. The statutory duty on the public sector to eliminate race discrimination and to promote race equality came into force shortly after those cases were brought and is designed to prevent discrimination from happening before it occurs.

Pauline McNeill:

The minister will be aware that the two cases to which I referred are the first cases in which the burden of proof has shifted to the employer, which must show that it has race equality procedures in place. The cases happen to have been in the public sector, but they could have been in the private sector. Does he agree that more work needs to be done in both sectors to remind all employers of their responsibilities in respect of race equality? Crucially, does he agree that the Executive should work with employers, the trade unions and the Commission for Racial Equality to get better outcomes?

Malcolm Chisholm:

I agree absolutely with Pauline McNeill. In our recent review of race equality work, we produced a series of recommendations to drive up public sector performance on race equality. The new public sector duty will help in that regard and is actively monitored by the Commission for Racial Equality. As Pauline McNeill reminds us, the private sector also has responsibilities. We recently set up a group to examine the issue of race equality and employment. The first meeting of the group will take place soon and both Allan Wilson and I will attend it. We are determined to drive forward action in the private sector, as well as in the public sector.

Ms Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP):

Does the minister agree that, despite the obligations that the Executive has placed on public bodies, especially local authorities, and the promises that have been made, the recent racial discrimination rulings strengthen the case for having statutory inspection bodies monitor and audit fully the duty to promote racial equality? Will he give a commitment to that today, to ensure that public bodies adhere to equality legislation?

Malcolm Chisholm:

There is already a statutory body that monitors the public sector duty—the Commission for Racial Equality. I am sure that Sandra White agrees that it will be actively involved in ensuring that the duty is enforced. There are no grounds for complacency. The cases that we are discussing arose a few years ago, before the public sector duty was introduced, but we know that there is still a great deal to do.


Schools (Truancy)

To ask the Scottish Executive what plans it has for further reducing truancy rates in schools. (S2O-8490)

The Scottish Executive is committed to working in partnership with education authorities and schools to ensure good practice in all aspects of monitoring attendance and absence and tackling truancy.

Mr McAveety:

I recognise the obvious importance of the enforcement role of attendance officers, but the critical issue is why so many young people feel disengaged from schools in the first place. In my constituency, there have been improvements year on year, largely because of innovation in the curriculum choice that is available to students, to ensure that they can feel comfortable attending school. What is the Executive's attitude towards encouraging further flexibility in the curriculum review, so that we make education as relevant as possible to young people in Scotland?

Peter Peacock:

Frank McAveety is right to highlight the importance of making learning for young people, especially boys in secondary 1 and 2, much more engaging and relevant, with more pace and challenge, in order to capture their interest in education so that they turn up for school because they want to be in school and are finding it productive. Sadly, too many young people are disengaging at that point in school life. That is why we are taking forward our reforms of the curriculum. We are trying to ensure that there is more choice and flexibility and that schools have more freedom to determine what they teach, when they teach it, what exams young people sit and when they sit those exams. We are creating more space in our education system for drama, sport, arts activity and the like. That is part of a process of improving education and, therefore, reducing truancy.

Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP):

Does the minister acknowledge that truancy rates remain persistently high? Does he recognise the success of the automatic messaging service that many schools have introduced? What plans does he have to roll that out? In seeking to have parents take up their parental responsibilities, does he see a role for any reformed school board or new parent council in developing policy for parental responsibility with regard to truancy rates?

Peter Peacock:

I think that there were three questions in that. On the general point, I have made it clear that I think that levels of truancy are too high. Any time lost from learning is a lost opportunity for young people that has a profound implication for the rest of their lives. However, we have been collecting the statistics for only the past two years and the increase from last year to this year was 0.1 per cent. The current figure is too high, which is why we are doing all the things that we are doing. I have already referred to curriculum reform. We are also installing automated call systems in more than 300 schools to catch truancy early and to try to nip it in the bud, ensuring that we catch the people who are trying to truant for the first time and discourage them from doing it in the future.

I agree that parents have a role to perform. Ultimately, parents have a legal responsibility to get their children to school, as well as a wider moral responsibility for their children. Under the new arrangements for parental involvement in schools, one thing that ought to be discussed is how parents can impact on truancy and support their school and their children more effectively.

Ms Rosemary Byrne (South of Scotland) (SSP):

I welcome the more flexible curriculum, but does the minister agree that one way of reducing truancy and engaging young people in the education system, so giving them access to that more flexible curriculum, would be to reduce class sizes dramatically to no more than 20? In that way, the Executive would get the engagement that it desires.

Peter Peacock:

There is mixed evidence about the impact of class size reductions at certain stages in school. Through an Executive programme, we are recruiting more teachers than we have ever recruited in the past and our universities are bulging at the seams with new teachers in training. It is always our intention to reduce class sizes at key stages in primary and secondary school. Beyond the question of class size reductions, however, the key is to make learning more engaging for young people, so that they want to be in school because they see the benefit of that. That is why we are driving forward other reforms.


Social Rented Housing (Overcrowding)

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will review the statutory definition of overcrowding in social rented housing. (S2O-8457)

We have no plans to review the statutory definition of overcrowding.

Euan Robson:

The minister will be aware of cases in which overcrowded households are unable to move to a house with more accommodation that has become available because that house does not technically fulfil the needs of the family concerned. For example, two-bedroomed or three-bedroomed accommodation could become available, but four-bedroomed accommodation is required. Is there any bar on housing associations allowing moves to accommodation that, although it would still technically be overcrowded, is better than the accommodation in which a family might currently reside?

Malcolm Chisholm:

I do not think that changing the statutory definition of overcrowding would help in that situation. I believe that there is sufficient flexibility in the current system to prevent the problem that Euan Robson highlights from arising. I know that Communities Scotland would be critical of any landlord that knowingly placed a family in overcrowded accommodation if accommodation that better met the family's needs was available. Communities Scotland, which I mention because it is the regulator, would also be critical of a landlord that did not offer partial or interim relief from overcrowding by rigidly adhering to a policy of knowingly overcrowding when no accommodation that met the family's needs would be available in the near future. In other words, it should be possible for families to be moved in the situation that Euan Robson describes. Indeed, Communities Scotland would welcome that.


Osteoporosis

To ask the Scottish Executive what guidance has been given to national health service boards in respect of the identification and prevention of osteoporosis. (S2O-8508)

The Deputy Minister for Health and Community Care (Lewis Macdonald):

NHS boards can draw on good practice guidelines on the prevention and management of hip fractures in older people and on the management of osteoporosis. Both those sets of guidelines were produced by the Scottish intercollegiate guidelines network.

Linda Fabiani:

I think that the minister would agree that there is variation in services across the country in the identification, treatment and management of osteoporosis. Will he consider drawing up a national strategy to combat osteoporosis? Does he recognise that, in the long term, that would give a better quality of life to those with the condition, as well as creating both time and cost savings for the health service throughout Scotland?

Lewis Macdonald:

NHS Quality Improvement Scotland recently produced a useful report, of which I am sure Linda Fabiani is aware. I know that the National Osteoporosis Society is holding a series of workshops around Scotland to help NHS boards with the implementation of the SIGN osteoporosis guidelines, which are clearly intended as good practice advice, rather than as instructions to boards. It is appropriate that boards should take all that advice into account in determining how to proceed with the management of osteoporosis and related conditions in their respective areas.