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Chamber and committees

Meeting of the Parliament

Meeting date: Thursday, May 13, 2010


Contents


Scottish Executive Question Time


Finance and Sustainable Growth

Question 1 was not lodged.


Further Education Colleges (Funding)

Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab)



2. To ask the Scottish Executive what recent discussions the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth has had with the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning regarding the need for additional funding for further education colleges. (S3O-10483)

The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth (John Swinney)

Discussions between the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning and I take place regularly on college funding issues.

Discussions took place before the announcement of a 6.9 per cent budget increase for the college sector for 2010-11. Further discussions took place before the announcement on 20 March of a further £6.9 million in European funding, helping to create more than 4,000 new college places. Discussions took place before the announcement on 14 April of an additional £17 million to support capital investment in colleges and provide a welcome boost to Scotland’s construction industry.

Karen Whitefield

I am pleased that the cabinet secretary meets so regularly with his colleague, Michael Russell. Although I welcome the funding so far, does the cabinet secretary recognise that the additional funding will in no way address the permanent imbalance of college funding in Scotland? Is he aware that for every £5 spent on further education in Glasgow, only £2 is spent in Lanarkshire? I acknowledge the complex social and economic problems faced by Glasgow, but Lanarkshire shares exactly the same problems. What will the minister do to address that imbalance?

John Swinney

I think that Karen Whitefield will acknowledge from her experience of chairing the Education, Lifelong Learning and Culture Committee that decisions on the allocation of funding to colleges are taken by the Scottish Further and Higher Education Funding Council, which takes those decisions independently of ministers, although it operates under a framework set out by ministers.

When funding colleges—this is particularly the case in the current environment, given the economic challenges that we face—the priority is to maximise the opportunities for young people and others in the economy who require further education opportunities. The funding arrangements that I set out in my earlier answer are designed to achieve that. I appreciate that there will be differences in the funding approaches taken by different areas, but such decisions are taken by the funding council to maximise the effectiveness and appropriateness of provision in all parts of the country.

Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab)

Many of my constituents go to local colleges in order to access higher education institutions such as Glasgow Caledonian University, where a rally against cuts was held yesterday. Does the cabinet secretary believe that it is a good use of education funding for GCU bosses to spend more than £1 million on a campus in London while planning major cuts to funding in Scotland, meaning further job losses and a poorer standard of education?

John Swinney

Obviously, individual institutions, of which Glasgow Caledonian is one, must take decisions about the appropriate use of their resources. Our further and higher education institutions are involved in activities to encourage students from other parts of the United Kingdom and other countries to come to study in Scotland because it is an important revenue source to many of them. Although such decisions are best taken by the institutions, all of us who depend on public finance must take careful and prudent decisions to ensure that we maximise the effectiveness of public expenditure in an increasingly tight financial environment.


Cash-releasing Efficiency Savings



3. To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will exceed its target of 2 per cent cash-releasing efficiency savings in 2010-11. (S3O-10494)

Annual efficiency outturn figures are published only when savings have been delivered and verified. The Government is working to deliver the target level of savings by the end of 2010-11.



Murdo Fraser

I thank the cabinet secretary for his response. The First Minister has said that the Scottish Government can achieve efficiency savings of 2 per cent per annum on an on-going basis to help to avoid cuts in front-line services. Does the finance secretary agree?

John Swinney

Yes, I agree. An essential part of how the Government acts is that it constantly examines how we deliver public services and use public money to ensure that we maximise the effectiveness of all the resources that are available to us as we go into an environment in which they will be under enormous pressure. The Scottish Government’s efficient government programme, which we are implementing and which our predecessors implemented in 2005 to 2008, has been an important part of sustaining that effort, and the Government will continue that in the years to come.

Andy Kerr (East Kilbride) (Lab)

The big difference is that for the word “efficiencies” we should read the word “cuts”. I need look no further than the Audit Scotland report, “Improving public sector efficiency”, which says:

“We have not attempted to validate independently the reported efficiency savings because the information to support reported savings is not complete or consistent.”

We now know about education and health cuts. When will the cabinet secretary be honest with the Scottish people and tell them that, despite increasing budgets, his Government is cutting public services?

John Swinney

Not for the first time, we find ourselves in a situation in which Mr Kerr is arguing in opposition the absolute opposite of what he argued when he was a minister. Then, he would have said that he was not cutting public expenditure, but merely pursuing efficiency. That is exactly the approach that this Government is taking. We seek to ensure the maximum effective use of public money, and that is what the efficient government programme is about.

If he had read the Government’s efficiency delivery plan, Mr Kerr would be aware that particular tests have to be applied to efficiency savings before any of them can be considered for inclusion in the efficient government programme.

Mr Kerr also asked me about the Audit Scotland report, so I will talk about the verification process. I rehearsed some of the arguments about that with Mr Gavin Brown at the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee meeting yesterday. We have to make a choice about how to validate the efficient government programme. We could do what we are doing and, as I said to Mr Gavin Brown yesterday, I am happy to work to strengthen the verification process in consultation with the Parliament. Alternatively, we could take the approach that could be suggested of using an excessive amount of bureaucracy to tabulate all the savings. That could be counterproductive and I do not intend to take that route. My predecessor Mr McCabe made exactly the same decision when he set out clearly and robustly to the Finance Committee in the previous parliamentary session that it was not appropriate to invent a large bureaucracy of bean counters—if I recollect correctly, that was Mr McCabe’s colourful choice of words. We will certainly take the same approach as that which Mr McCabe so thoughtfully set out to the Finance Committee back in 2005.


Business Rates



4. To ask the Scottish Executive what support it is providing to businesses in Edinburgh to help them cope with increased business rates. (S3O-10452)

The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth (John Swinney)

All businesses in Scotland, including those in Edinburgh, benefit by more than £200 million in 2010-11 from our decision to match the English poundage rate. On top of that, around 60 per cent of ratepayers in Scotland are better off after revaluation, even before appeals and reliefs reduce bills further, with an average annual saving of more than £1,300 per property. In England, where there is a transitional relief scheme, the reported average saving is £770.

Sarah Boyack

I thank the minister for his reply and for his recent letter to me. I have gone back to the Edinburgh business community, which remains adamant that, in the absence of a transitional relief scheme, the massive hikes in their business rates mean that many Edinburgh businesses are losing out severely, particularly in the retail and tourism industries. Is the minister prepared to meet me and the local chamber of commerce to look at the analysis of the work that it has done by talking to local businesses? In my constituency, for example, many businesses have lost out, even though the minister has not intended for that to be the case, and they are now facing a hike of up to 70 per cent in their rateable value and 43 per cent in business rates, to give just one retail example. Given that tourism is a £2 billion industry in Edinburgh, and rateable values have risen more than 40 per cent across the board, local businesses are very worried about the Edinburgh economy and the situation in Scotland as a whole.

John Swinney

I would be delighted to meet Sarah Boyack and the local chamber of commerce.

The Government considered a transitional relief scheme, but I decided not to take that route because implementing such a scheme would have deprived a significant number of businesses of the reductions in business rates to which the revaluation process indicated that they were entitled. In addition, it would not have prevented a range of businesses from facing increases in business rates. It is clear that there must be a cap on increases.

The judgment that I arrived at was predicated on the fact that we had taken a different approach to the revaluation process, in the sense that we had decided not to equalise the take from business rates that was expected post-revaluation with the pre-revaluation take. We decided to honour our commitment to match the English poundage rate, which has resulted in a saving of more than £200 million to the businesses affected.

I would be happy to explore some of those issues in detail. I make the final point that the first step for any business that is concerned about its business rate revaluation should be to appeal. I encourage businesses to do that—I am sure that the businesses to which Sarah Boyack referred have done that.

Jeremy Purvis (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD)

I want to ask the cabinet secretary about the overall yield from business rates taxation in Scotland since the Scottish National Party came to office.

In a written answer to a parliamentary question in March, the cabinet secretary replied that, net of all reliefs, the amount that businesses paid in rates in Scotland was £1.928 billion. In a written answer to me on 28 April, he said that the forecast for 2010-11 was that the yield from business rates would be £2.1 billion. Can he confirm that, since the SNP came to office, the amount that businesses in Scotland pay in rates has gone up by £170 million?

John Swinney

If that detail is contained in written answers, it will be correct.

I make the point that more money will be paid in business rates during a period of economic expansion. The period to which Mr Purvis refers is one in which we had sustained economic growth, so it was likely that an increase in the take from business rates would emerge. [Interruption.]

Mr Purvis mutters about the recession, but he will be aware that the payment of business rates can lag behind the period of economic activity. That explains the information that he has been given in written answers.


Economy (Fiscal Stimulus Programme)



5. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will make representations to the United Kingdom Government for the restoration of a fiscal stimulus programme for the Scottish economy. (S3O-10516)

The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth (John Swinney)

We must continue to support the economy and growth in employment at this crucial time.

I plan to meet the Chancellor of the Exchequer—whom I congratulate on his appointment—at the earliest opportunity, and will call on him to ensure that the Scottish Government has all necessary resources to safeguard Scotland’s economic recovery.

Christina McKelvie

Now that we live in this Con-Dem nation, does the cabinet secretary agree that the key issue for Scotland remains the need to secure the recovery? Is it not still the case that an acceleration of capital spending should be an essential part of the Scottish Government’s arsenal for job creation and economic growth?

John Swinney

I certainly think that it is essential that we maintain investment in the public infrastructure of Scotland. The way in which we have deployed accelerated capital expenditure has helped us to take account of the fact that, recently, we have had a much lower level of private sector activity than we have had in recent years. The Government believes, as we asserted before and during the election, that a programme of accelerated capital expenditure would help to support the development of the economy. We will continue to make that case to the new ministers in the UK Government.

David Whitton (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (Lab)

I am sure that the cabinet secretary will have noted the latest construction insolvency figures, which showed that in the fourth quarter of 2009, 22 construction companies in Scotland became insolvent. That number almost doubled to 42 in the first quarter of 2010.

I am sure that he will also have noted the slump in the number of jobs in the construction sector, which has been caused in no small part by the failure of the Scottish Futures Trust to get a single construction project shovel ready, as the saying goes. When will he get his act together by getting the Scottish Futures Trust to put some projects on the table that will get construction workers back to work?

John Swinney

It will be a very interesting parliamentary experience to listen to the unremitting whine that is coming from the left-hand side of the chamber. If today is a taste of what lies ahead for the remainder of the session, it will be one big left-hand whine from the Labour crowd over there.

The Scottish Futures Trust is involved in about 15 different projects that are designed to support the development of infrastructure within the Scottish economy. A number of those projects are taking their course, whether on schools, the hub initiative, the Borders railway or the work on the Forth replacement crossing. A number of those projects involve the Scottish Futures Trust.

I will give Mr Whitton my usually helpful advice. If he is interested in playing a constructive role in the Parliament in the new political environment in which we are operating, the Labour Party should think about supporting the Government’s approach to trying to secure investment in those self-same capital investment projects that he professes to be so concerned about but on which his party has failed to support the Government. We could make more progress in protecting employment and supporting business in Scotland if Mr Whitton and Mr Kerr were to support the Government more enthusiastically than has been the case to date.

Should the fiscal stimulus be paid for by an increase in borrowing or an increase in taxation?

John Swinney

As Mr Brown will be aware, the last borrowing figures for the United Kingdom in the 2009-10 financial year showed that borrowing was £15 billion lower than the then Chancellor of the Exchequer had anticipated. The type of stimulus package that we are talking about would equate to a United Kingdom cost of about £3 billion. Clearly, a £15 billion borrowing requirement has been avoided, as a consequence of the performance of the economy. Our pitch to the former chancellor was that a proportion of that—I stress a proportion, and only 20 per cent—could have been used in a fiscal stimulus. I offer that helpful suggestion to Mr Brown, who I always knew was a very influential figure in politics but is now even more influential with the direct line that he will have to the United Kingdom Government. Mr Purvis also has his direct line to the Secretary of State for Scotland, the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills and the Chief Secretary to the Treasury. We will not forget that one in a hurry.

You are being rude.

I am not being rude. I am being as helpful as I possibly can be to encourage my colleagues in the Liberal Democrat and the Conservative parties to use all the new influence that they now have at their disposal.


Access for All Small Schemes Fund



6. To ask the Scottish Government what representations it has made to the United Kingdom Government regarding proposed cuts to the access for all small schemes fund. (S3O-10519)

I wrote to Chris Mole, then Under Secretary of State for Transport, on 13 April 2010 expressing my disappointment at the budget reduction, and urged him to reconsider the decision.

Shirley-Anne Somerville

I thank the minister for that answer. He will already know that the access for all small schemes fund has made a small but very significant contribution to increasing access to our rail network for some of the most vulnerable in our society. From hand rails and variable height ticket counters to access ramps and sign language information, a lot of good progress has been made using that fund. However, much still needs to be done. May I therefore ask the minister to make further representations to the new UK Government to ensure that this decision, made in the death throes of the Labour Government, is reversed as soon as possible?

Stewart Stevenson

The access for all small schemes fund for 2010-11, which is provided by the Department for Transport at UK level, was originally set in October 2009 at £7.9 million. We received the information that it was being reduced to £3.9 million and the consequence was that our share fell from £796,000 to £390,000. As the member said, some of the most vulnerable people in our society are supported by this modest amount of money. It seems passing strange that a party whose rhetoric was committed to social justice should choose to make this small financial cut that will have a big impact. I will most certainly approach the new minister to see whether there can be a change of heart.




Scottish Budget (Cuts)



7. To ask the Scottish Government when it plans to meet the Chancellor of the Exchequer to discuss the implications of any future cuts to the Scottish budget on the West of Scotland and Scotland in general. (S3O-10517)

The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth (John Swinney)

I plan to meet the Chancellor of the Exchequer at the earliest possible opportunity to discuss the implications of any future cuts to the Scottish budget. The Scottish Government will work to protect Scotland’s interests in any future United Kingdom budget settlement and will continue to work in partnership with local authority, health service and other public sector colleagues to ensure that the resources that are ultimately allocated to us are used in the best interests of the people of Scotland.

Stuart McMillan

Bearing in mind the financial disaster that is the UK debt mountain created by Labour, and the impending savage cuts that are expected from the new Tory and Lib Dem UK Government, does the cabinet secretary agree with Labour’s David Whitton that we should limit free prescriptions, free pensioner travel and free school meals, which would adversely affect many people in Scotland whose lives we should be trying to improve?

John Swinney

I have not caught up with Mr Whitton’s latest contribution to the debate, so I will leave his remarks to stand for themselves.

The approach that the Scottish Government will take in all its decisions, as I have made clear to the Parliament on a number of occasions, is to prioritise economic recovery and support front-line services. That will be the basis of the decisions that we take. We will examine the funding choices that the United Kingdom Government makes in formulating its decisions. I will keep the Parliament closely advised of the decisions that the Government makes once we have clear information about the financial settlement from the United Kingdom Government.

David Whitton (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (Lab)

I should be flattered that Mr McMillan follows what I say in the press with such keen interest. However, it would help if he got his facts right. I did not say that I supported the ending of universal benefits. I see Mr Brownlee nodding in support of me.

The member is meant to be asking the cabinet secretary a question.

Indeed. I will get round to asking the question. [Interruption.] I was just defending—

Will you ask the question, please?

Indeed I will.

I did not call for the ending of all those things. [Laughter.] I am sure that the cabinet secretary will support me in that—or maybe not. Who knows? He will have to make the decisions.

Mr Whitton, ask a question!

The question is, if the cabinet secretary is so keen on defending those things, will he defend Greater Glasgow and Clyde NHS Board, which today declared 1,200 redundancies?

John Swinney

If Mr Whitton has been the inadvertent victim of a possible misquoting, I am sure that he has now put that well and truly on the record in the extensive and elaborate preparatory comment that we heard before his question. In doing so, however, he committed the same kind of offence of which he accuses my colleague Mr McMillan, because Greater Glasgow and Clyde NHS Board has done nothing of the sort that he suggested—nothing whatsoever.

Mr Whitton should reflect seriously on what approach should be taken to resolve the many difficulties that have been created by the mismanagement of the public finances by the Labour Government. All that Mr Whitton and Mr Kerr can do today is complain and whinge. I say to them that, if they carry on in that vein, they will marginalise themselves entirely from the political debate in Scotland. [Interruption.] I hear my Liberal Democrat colleagues saying that they have done that already. Mr Whitton and Mr Kerr are well and truly on course to marginalise themselves and make themselves completely irrelevant as they try to deny the fact that the public spending crisis was created by the foolish management of our public finances by the Labour Party. That is why Labour is out of government at every level of the Scottish and UK Governments today.


Scottish Investment Fund Funding (Lanarkshire)



8. To ask the Scottish Government how many third sector organisations based in Lanarkshire have successfully applied for funding from the Scottish investment fund since 1 September 2008. (S3O-10492)

No Lanarkshire-based third sector organisations have received investment from the Scottish investment fund. Two applications were initiated but have not as yet been progressed further by the applicants.

The cabinet secretary will be aware that there was a high level of demand for investment from the fund. What consideration has been given to maintaining the Scottish investment fund beyond 2011?

John Swinney

As Mr Wilson will be aware, all questions about future budget decisions will be addressed when I deliver to the Parliament the financial settlement for 2011, the timing of which is subject to when we receive from the United Kingdom Government the information that is necessary to form a view.

The Scottish investment fund has been a popular funding stream. The fund is designed to encourage and support the sustainability of third sector organisations and has attracted a significant amount of interest. Mr Wilson should take reassurance from the fact that the Government values enormously the contribution that the fund can make to encourage sustainability in the third sector.


Business Rates Incentivisation Scheme



9. To ask the Scottish Executive what progress is being made to pilot a business rates incentivisation scheme across Scotland’s local authorities. (S3O-10503)

The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth (John Swinney)

Detailed discussions between the Scottish Government and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities on how a business rates incentivisation scheme would operate are continuing, with the intention that an agreed scheme will be introduced in 2011-12.

Bob Doris

The cabinet secretary will know of my on-going interest in business rates collection by Glasgow City Council, whose non-domestic rates collection rates have been around 94 per cent for some years. That is lower than the Scottish average by upwards of 2 per cent, which in cash terms is a substantial loss to the city. As a major business centre for a far wider and more populous conurbation, Glasgow faces understandable challenges in achieving higher business rates collection levels due to a number of factors. Does the cabinet secretary agree that an incentivisation scheme that permits local retention of extra revenues would be best piloted in Glasgow? I urge him to consider that suggestion. Which model would he consider most appropriate for Glasgow? I reiterate that I would like Glasgow to be included in any pilot business rates incentivisation scheme.

John Swinney

I will certainly consider Mr Doris’s suggestion about the possibility of undertaking a pilot scheme in Glasgow. I am keen to take forward a business rates incentivisation scheme to continue the work that the Government has supported over the past three years to motivate and encourage local authorities to see themselves as performing a significant role in encouraging economic development at local level. We all have a vested interest in ensuring that we have a prosperous economy in all localities of Scotland, and I think that a business rates incentivisation scheme would assist that.

Lewis Macdonald (Aberdeen Central) (Lab)

I welcome the fact that the cabinet secretary confirmed to the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee yesterday that he will meet Aberdeen and Grampian Chamber of Commerce to explain his policy decisions on business rates. Does he accept the chamber’s calculation that this year’s rates increase, net of any reliefs, will cost businesses in Aberdeen city and shire more than £30 million a year?

John Swinney

Mr Macdonald’s point had the interesting caveat that it was before reliefs. As I said in my answer to Sarah Boyack earlier, the rates revaluation process provides a benefit of the order of £200 million, which the Scottish Government has used to fix the business poundage rate at the same rate as that in England. Without that, business rates bills would have been significantly higher in Scotland. Mr Macdonald needs to reflect on that in assessing the information that he has set out to the Parliament today.

Of course I look forward to my meeting with Aberdeen and Grampian Chamber of Commerce.


Voluntary Sector (Support)



10. To ask the Scottish Executive what action it is taking to support the voluntary sector. (S3O-10496)

The Minister for Enterprise, Energy and Tourism (Jim Mather)

Over the past three years, we have sought to empower the third sector to join in the delivery of the national purpose, which will benefit everyone in Scotland. We have provided more than £90 million to grow the sector, to support the development of voluntary organisations and social enterprises and to promote volunteering. We have brought senior figures in the sector into discussions with the Scottish Cabinet and we have brokered a powerful agreement between the sector and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives and Senior Managers. The sector has risen to that challenge and, in the years to come, we expect that it will be a powerful force to support those who are most in need in difficult economic circumstances.

Margaret Mitchell

Given that the voluntary and third sector is often viewed by local authorities as an easy route for making cuts during periods of tightening public expenditure, and in view of the fact that at stage 3 consideration of the Public Services Reform (Scotland) Bill the Scottish National Party and Labour voted against amendment 77, which would have required public authorities to take into account the joint statement between COSLA, the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations and the Government to promote the third sector, what will the minister do to ensure that family support services, citizens advice bureaux, women’s aid and other vital local services that are delivered by the third sector are not squeezed?

Jim Mather

The member comes to the chamber with a false premise. We have increased funding for the voluntary sector. I chaired a meeting on 13 April at which we brought the voluntary sector together to engender yet more cohesion. If the member still has the deep concerns that she has just voiced, I would be keen to see them in writing and to engage with her more fully on the matter.

Linda Fabiani (Central Scotland) (SNP)

At the Finance Committee, it was noted by local authority witnesses that, although there has been willingness on the part of local authorities and the voluntary sector to work in partnership, there are issues of differing governance and regulation systems to overcome. Are the cabinet secretary and ministers taking any action to assist smoother working operations, to allow the voluntary sector to maximise its extremely valuable role in the provision of public services?

Jim Mather

Indeed, we are. We very much encourage third sector organisations to apply professional management methods, both for their own protection and for better delivery of the outcomes that they seek. The most tangible point is that the Big Lottery Fund is funding the development of a bespoke version of the European framework for quality management, which will give the third sector and its interface organisations the opportunity to adopt management practices on a par with the best. As I said earlier, we very much encourage that continuing coming together and the triggering of further discussions involving the third sector to deliver the outcomes that are required under single outcome agreements.


Economic Development (Highlands and Islands)



11. To ask the Scottish Government how much Highlands and Islands Enterprise invested in economic development in 2009-10. (S3O-10520)

The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth (John Swinney)

Highlands and Islands Enterprise received grant in aid of £58.7 million during 2009-10 for economic development activities. It received additional income from the European Union and revenue from capital assets of about £12 million. A final figure for total expenditure on economic development will not be available until the accounts for 2009-10 have been completed.

Dave Thompson

I am pleased that we have a healthy budget for Highlands and Islands Enterprise. There is one project that HIE has funded that has not reached its full potential: the Cairngorm mountain railway. It is held back by a rule that bars people from leaving the Ptarmigan top station to go on to the mountain. Will the cabinet secretary instruct HIE to do all that it can to get that restriction lifted, so that the railway can reach its full potential?

John Swinney

As an aside, the last time I travelled up the Cairngorm mountain railway, what prevented me leaving the top station was not a rule from government authority but about 15ft of snow—a rather physical obstacle.

I listened carefully to Mr Thompson’s point, and I will raise it with Highlands and Islands Enterprise. We will do all that we can to address the issue.

Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con)

In March this year, 53 Highlands and Islands Enterprise employees were made redundant, with an average severance package of £63,600. According to Highlands and Islands Enterprise, the employees could be

“removed without impacting significantly on HIE’s ability to fulfil its remit.”

Given that HIE’s budget has been decreased by the Government since 2007, can the finance secretary indicate whether further redundancies with large severance packages will take place and, if so, whether HIE will be able to maintain its current remit and responsibilities?

John Swinney

As Mary Scanlon will know, with the focus that we have given to Highlands and Islands Enterprise, we have provided very active support to the development of growth opportunities in the Highlands and Islands economy, in addition to maintaining the important and unique role of Highlands and Islands Enterprise in relation to the social and economic development of the most vulnerable and economically challenged areas in rural Scotland. That is the purpose of Highlands and Islands Enterprise, and the obligation on ministers and the organisation’s board is to ensure that the resources that are available to it are most effectively deployed to achieve that vision. That is the approach that we have taken with Highlands and Islands Enterprise—I would have thought that that vision and approach would be respected on the Conservative benches—and we will continue to do that in the years to come.

On the redundancies, we are talking about packages for voluntary redundancy, which is a way of reducing the on-going costs of an organisation to ensure its sustainability. The Government will consider whether any such proposals are required at any stage in future at the initiation of the Highlands and Islands Enterprise board.


Scotch Whisky Industry (Meetings)



12. To ask the Scottish Executive when a minister last had a meeting with representatives of the Scotch whisky industry and what issues were discussed. (S3O-10485)

Ministers regularly meet representatives of the Scotch whisky industry to discuss a range of issues.

Gavin Brown

I thank the cabinet secretary for that ultra helpful answer.

The cabinet secretary will know that the industry is deeply worried about minimum pricing and that the Scotch Whisky Association believes that the policy could cost £600 million a year in exports. I know that John Swinney wants to be a local champion—and a national champion. Given the importance of the industry to Scotland’s economy, would it be reasonable to ask Scottish Enterprise, Scottish Development International or one of the cabinet secretary’s directorates to review and respond to the Scotch Whisky Association analysis?

There has been an extensive dialogue with the Scotch Whisky Association on the question of minimum pricing.

No, there has not.

John Swinney

I am not sure why Mr Brown is shaking his head. I have had conversations with the Scotch Whisky Association about minimum pricing, so I know full well that there have been discussions with it about the question.

I make this point to Mr Brown with the greatest of respect: I cannot see that minimum pricing would have the slightest impact on the Scotch whisky industry. It is a premium product industry; it is not the target of minimum pricing. The industry has everything to champion—to use Mr Brown’s word—in terms of its quality, and numerous players in the whisky industry have made it clear that they think that minimum pricing is the way to take forward the agenda.

Ministers remain happy to discuss the issues around minimum pricing with the Scotch Whisky Association. That has been our position throughout the process, and the issues that have been raised by the association will, I am sure, be fully considered in the scrutiny of the Alcohol etc (Scotland) Bill as it goes through the Parliament.

Question 13 has been withdrawn.


Bus Services



14. To ask the Scottish Executive what steps it is taking to support bus services across Scotland. (S3O-10453)

The Minister for Transport, Infrastructure and Climate Change (Stewart Stevenson)

The Scottish Government is committed to bus services in Scotland. We are taking forward a number of initiatives with local government partners and bus operators to maintain and improve bus services, including statutory quality partnerships, punctuality improvement partnerships and the appointment of a senior bus development adviser.

The Scottish Government reached an agreement earlier this year with the Confederation of Passenger Transport on funding levels for concessionary travel and the bus service operators grant, which will give budget certainty and stability to the bus industry. This funding amounts to more than £240 million in the current financial year.

Rhona Brankin

The minister will be aware that Lothian Buses is the biggest publicly owned bus operator in the United Kingdom. As the company does not have a private shareholder that is seeking to maximise profits, the travelling public in Edinburgh and the Lothians benefit from low fares and one of the most modern bus fleets in the UK. Does he therefore share my concern that City of Edinburgh Council, the largest shareholder in Lothian Buses, has removed from the board a number of directors who are committed to the firm remaining independent and in public ownership? Does he agree that it would be hugely detrimental to staff and passengers if Lothian Buses were sold off to a private operator?

The member will be aware that this minister is a regular user of Lothian Buses services—the number 22 is rarely without my presence.

Do you spend all day on the buses?

Stewart Stevenson

I think that some Liberal members think that I am being too liberal with my time on the buses but, believe me, it is highly enjoyable.

On a serious point, it is clear that Lothian Buses is a successful company. Among other companies, it is benefiting from the certainty that we provided not only in the current financial year but for three years to come and from our stepping up of the bus service operators grant by 10 per cent to protect services and ensure that the public get the services that they require.

We shall watch with interest the development of Lothian Buses. I am sure that its future will be as successful as its recent past.


Credit Unions

Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD)



15. To ask the Scottish Executive whether it is aware of the recommendation by the Financial Services Authority in its recent consultation paper to increase the minimum initial capital threshold from £1,000 to £10,000 for version 1 credit unions and from £5,000 to £50,000 for version 2 credit unions. (S3O-10527)

I confirm that we are aware of the Financial Services Authority’s recommendation in its consultation paper to raise prudential standards.

Robert Brown

The minister will also be aware of the legislative reform order on credit unions that was promoted through the United Kingdom Parliament just before the election. Does the minister share my concern that the raising of the capital threshold seems to indicate a preference for regional rather than local credit unions? What is the minister’s view of that? Is he worried that the new limits might inhibit the establishment of credit unions, particularly at this difficult time? Has he discussed the issue with his UK counterparts? Does he have any concerns about the reliance on external financing that appears to be part of the assumptions in the consultation paper?

John Swinney

I sympathise with the points that Robert Brown raises. It might be the case that some of the arrangements that are undertaken as part of an exercise to ensure robust financial management arrangements in credit unions will affect the character and nature of some credit unions. Part of the strength of credit unions, as I have seen in many visits to credit unions throughout the country, lies in their location and their proximity to their communities, which engenders confidence on the part of members of the public.

I have not made representations to the UK Government on that issue, but I am sure that, given the new contacts that Mr Brown has, he and I can work to put that point across. It is important that there are no unintended consequences of an attempt to try to guarantee financial security and strength in credit unions. None of us wants the fundamental characteristics of credit unions to be undermined.