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Chamber and committees

Plenary, 09 Sep 1999

Meeting date: Thursday, September 9, 1999


Contents


Question Time

We proceed this afternoon with question time, and I remind members that it is question time and not statement time. I also advise members that three questions—Nos 9, 10 and 14—have been withdrawn, so members should be alert to that.


SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE


Citizens Justice

1. Mr Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will make a statement on support for local community involvement in regeneration through citizens juries. (S1O-279) The Minister for Communities (Ms Wendy Alexander): We are determined that the views of local people are at the heart of regenerating Scottish communities. I therefore announced, at a Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations conference last month, our support for a people's jury in every community that we support through our social inclusion partnerships. The juries will address issues chosen by representatives of the local community.

Mr McNeil:

I welcome the minister's response. As I have already referred in the chamber to the serious problems of crime, ill health and poverty in the Greenock and Inverclyde district, I also welcome the fact that the first citizens jury in Greenock will take place at the end of October. Ordinary people will be allowed to discuss key concerns in the community. Given that there are 30 citizens juries in the United Kingdom and six in Scotland, does the minister agree that they are a well-tried and trusted method of canvassing the views of communities? Can she assure me that the Scottish Executive will take seriously the views of those citizens juries? What other ideas does she have for further consultation with communities?

Ms Alexander:

The people's juries will be an important way of putting communities at the heart of decision making. I would like to stress that the wider programme involves having a representative of the voluntary sector on every partnership board, and spending £2 million in the next three years on a new national skills development programme for community representatives, so that they can influence decision making in their local areas.


Child Care

2. Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will make a statement on the progress being made towards a national child care strategy. (S1O-250) The Deputy Minister for Children and Education (Peter Peacock): The document "Making it work together" sets out our pledges for developing child care strategy in Scotland, pledges that are backed by extra resources of some £49 million over the next three years.

Elaine Smith:

I thank the minister for his response, but I would like to draw his attention to one particular aspect of the child care agenda that I feel is not given the acclaim that it deserves— that of safe play. No doubt the minister is aware of the added value that play can offer to a child's education and social development—

Elaine, I am sorry, but you must ask a question.

Yes, I am about to.

But you must ask a question at the beginning.

Elaine Smith:

I just wanted to put safe play into the context of the child care agenda. Could the minister clarify the role that play will have in Scotland's child care strategy, with specific reference to the advancement of the provision of out-of-school care? Could I also draw his attention to the excellent facility at Kirkshaws built by Parents Action for Safe Play?

Peter Peacock:

I am happy to respond to that. Earlier this week, I was at Bells Bank adventure playground in Ayrshire. I was there to demonstrate our commitment to safe play as an important part of the child care strategy. I can assure Elaine Smith that we will continue to give whatever support we can to safe play throughout Scotland.


Victims of Crime

3. Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will make a statement on how it intends to keep victims informed of the progress of cases against offenders. (S1O-261) The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Justice (Mr Jim Wallace): As set out in "A Programme for Government", the Scottish Executive will develop a system to provide key information to victims who wish to be kept informed of the progress of their case.

Will the minister elaborate on that answer, and say whether information given to victims will include reasons for decision taken by the Crown, for example, to drop or to reduce charges?

Mr Wallace:

What is envisaged is an effort to improve on the present arrangements, which are sometimes made by word of mouth. We recognise that cases pass from the police through to the procurator fiscal, and it is hoped to get a pilot scheme using computer technology up and running by 2000-01.

The issues that are raised in Maureen Macmillan's question are for the Crown Office. As the Lord Advocate, Lord Hardie, explained when he gave his presentation to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, it is common practice not to give explanations about why charges are changed or are not pursued.


Tobacco

4. Ms Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will outline its proposals for action to prevent young Scots from becoming addicted to tobacco. (S1O281) The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon): The Scottish Executive is firmly committed to reducing the levels of smoking by children and young people in Scotland. The white paper "Smoking Kills" outlines a comprehensive range of measures that we are introducing. Specific action includes steps to improve the enforcement of the laws relating to under-age sales of tobacco, and targeted health, education and promotion activity. We will also be legislating later this year to ban tobacco advertising, which does so much to influence our young people to start smoking in the first place.

Ms Oldfather:

I am particularly pleased to hear the minister mention the issue of enforcement. Will she join me in condemning the unscrupulous practices of some shopkeepers who put private profit before children's health by selling tobacco products to children? Furthermore, will she and her colleagues examine what measures could be introduced to tackle that problem?

Susan Deacon:

I share the member's concern about the importance of effectively enforcing existing laws that relate to the sale of tobacco to young people and I am keen to introduce measures in that area. However, on this issue, a balance needs to be struck about protecting the interests of young people. I support the Lord Advocate's views that children should not be used to test-purchase tobacco as part of local enforcement strategies.

However, Scottish Executive officials are working closely with police and local authorities to investigate ways in which we can enforce the law more effectively in this area. I will be happy to discuss this further with Ms Oldfather.


Stobhill Hospital

5. Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether the Minister for Health during her visit to Stobhill hospital will meet the Medical Staff Association to discuss its concerns in connection with revised site proposals to build an ambulatory care and diagnostic unit on the grounds of Stobhill hospital. (S1O-295)

The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon):

As the member indicates, I will be visiting Stobhill hospital on Monday 20 September, when I will be presenting the gold award which staff at Stobhill hospital have received under the Scotland's Health at Work award scheme. Owing to other commitments that day, I will be unable to meet with the Medical Staff Association on that occasion.

I am obviously disappointed that the minister is unable to deal with the matter. I think that the days of rehearsed, "I've baked you a cake" visits to hospitals are past.

Order. As I said last week, even disappointment must be in the form of a question.

Does the minister share my concerns that the Medical Staff Association was not consulted about the proposals to reduce the ACAD unit from 10 acres on a greenfield site to a two-acre site on the hospital's car park?

Susan Deacon:

I take very seriously a visit to a hospital that involves presenting an award that recognises the achievement of NHS staff. That is very far from a baked-a-cake visit. I have received a number of other requests for meetings on that day that I am also unable to accommodate.

As for the issue that Mr Martin raises, I am aware of the range of views that are held in the hospital and locally. Those views are a matter for local consultation and discussion. I have met the member to discuss the issues at some length and have encouraged him, the local board and the local trust to have further discussions at a local level. When proposals are finalised, they will go out for local consultation.


Landraise

6. Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive what the current policy is on the use of landraise for the disposal of domestic and non-domestic waste. (S1O-286) The Minister for Transport and the Environment (Sarah Boyack): Landraising is an acceptable form of controlled waste disposal, provided such development receives the planning permission and waste management licence required from the appropriate authorities.

Will the minister comment further on the planning and licensing aspects of landraise and on whether any improvements can be made to the system?

Sarah Boyack:

There are no special rules governing landraise. Each planning application must be considered on its own merits and in the light of the development plan. The management of licences for those sites is carried out by the Scottish Environment Protection Agency.


Dental Health

7. Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive what measures are in place to promote dental health in Scotland. (S1O-259) The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon): A wide range of measures is in place, both at local and national levels, to promote dental health.

Health boards run educational programmes in conjunction with local authorities and the voluntary sector. These focus on dietary change: reducing the high sugar foods and drinks consumed by children; oral hygiene—toothbrushing with a fluoride toothpaste; and attendance at the dentist for supportive advice and treatment. The Health Education Board for Scotland supports this activity through research and development of programmes and by the production of supporting audiovisual material.

Karen Whitefield:

Does the minister agree that children from deprived communities have at least three times more dental decay than children from more affluent communities? Will she commit the Scottish Executive health department to taking action to improve local access to dental services, especially in some of Scotland's poorest communities, as well as taking steps to improve public health education specifically related to dental decay?

Susan Deacon:

I agree strongly with the member's views on the importance of tackling our children's dental health, in particular in our most deprived communities. As I indicated in the public health debate last week, I think that it is startling that the poorest 10 per cent of our children have half our country's dental decay. We have to tackle the matter on a range of levels and, as I indicated, that is about both local and national activities. It is important that we work across sectors and agencies to get dental services and dental promotion messages across.

I take this opportunity to congratulate Victoria nursery school in Airdrie on recently receiving the best oral health initiative award from the British Dental Health Foundation. Some of the work that is going on in our schools is a terrific example of

how we can take this approach forward.


Tourism

8. Alasdair Morgan (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive what action it intends to take to assist the tourism sector in areas of rural Scotland such as Dumfries and Galloway and the Highlands and Islands in the light of the decreases in visitor numbers. (S1O-264) The Deputy Minister for Highlands and Islands and Gaelic (Mr Alasdair Morrison): We shall be publishing a new strategy at the turn of the year and an important objective will be to boost tourism in the remoter areas.

Alasdair Morgan:

I think that I could have anticipated that reply. Will the minister say what representations he has made or will be making to the Chancellor of the Exchequer in light of the increase in interest rates yesterday? While he keeps the pound at an excessively high level, high interest rates are having an adverse effect on the number of foreign visitors coming to Scotland.

The evidence we have to date on the first quarter of this year shows that figures for visitors from overseas are at the same level as they were last year. I think that that is also true of visitors from within the United Kingdom.

Is the minister saying that tourism is price inelastic?

No.


Railways

11. Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive what plans it has to develop the electrification of Scotland's railways. (S1O-252) The Minister for Transport and the Environment (Sarah Boyack): Investment in the development of rail infrastructure is principally a commercial matter for Railtrack. If local authorities wish to work with the rail industry on enhancing the rail network, their proposals may be eligible for support from the public transport fund.

Does the minister support the Larkhall rail extension to the Haughhead junction, when will she authorise its construction and how will it be funded?

If Mr MacAskill likes, I can provide him with a written answer on that detailed matter.

This matter has been outstanding since December 1998—

Order. I did not call Mr MacAskill for another supplementary.


Secretary of State for Scotland

12. Dennis Canavan (Falkirk West):

To ask the Scottish Executive when the First Minister expects to meet the Secretary of State for Scotland and what subjects he expects to discuss. (S1O-247) The First Minister (Donald Dewar): I meet the secretary of state regularly and no doubt I will be doing so again shortly. We discuss a wide range of subjects.

Dennis Canavan:

Before the Secretary of State for Scotland's job becomes totally redundant, will the First Minister ask Dr Reid to tell Scottish Labour MPs to stop whining about Scottish members of this Parliament expressing concern about important matters affecting their constituents?

For example, this Parliament, as well as Westminster, has an important role to play regarding the high levels of Scottish unemployment. Is it not significant that some of the Scottish Labour MPs who have been bleating the loudest—[Interruption.]

Mr Canavan, the last part of your question was out of order.

The First Minister:

Dennis Canavan will agree that there is no danger of John Reid ever being described as redundant. I note Dennis's interest in the activities of his former friends and colleagues; I am sure that they will welcome that.

I hope that Mr Canavan will join me in rejoicing at the fact that the unemployment claimant count in Scotland is at its lowest level for almost 25 years. We have every intention of trying to keep it there and no doubt we will be working very happily, in co-operation with colleagues at Westminster, to do exactly that.


Health Care

13. Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):

To ask the Scottish Executive what action it is taking to enable acute hospital and primary care trusts to meet the aspirations for joint investment funds set out in the "Designed to Care" white paper. (S1O-255) The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon): The joint investment fund is an innovative mechanism for redesigning services to meet patient needs and to ensure that resources move with any service change.

Health boards and NHS trusts were advised earlier this year that their current health improvement programmes should identify the areas for service change and resource transfer that they would explore jointly in 1999-2000. A support group of senior managers and professionals was established to assess progress

and to share good practice. An interim report was produced in August and a final report, which will set out models for achieving change, is due shortly.

The new joint investment fund bridges the gap between primary and acute care. Local doctors feel strongly that the funds are not being released and that they are not able to deliver appropriate care.

Diabetes is an example—

Order.

Will the minister support initiatives such as the care of diabetes to promote patient care under the new joint investment funding?

Susan Deacon:

As I said earlier, the point of the joint investment fund is to have in place that and many other measures that will ensure that we find the best way of providing patient care that cuts across different sectors or different agencies. The joint investment fund is at an early stage of development. It is starting to make progress in bridging the gaps that Mrs Scanlon referred to, and I will continue to monitor that progress carefully.


Yorkhill Hospital

15. Ms Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive what steps it is taking to ensure the retention of the paediatric cardiac surgery service at Yorkhill hospital. (S1O-296) The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon): As Ms White will be aware, paediatric cardiac surgery is performed currently in two centres: Yorkhill hospital in Glasgow and the sick children's hospital in Edinburgh.

All the clinicians concerned agree that it is in the best interests of patients to concentrate the service in one centre. In reaching a decision on where the service is to be located, my primary concern will be to ensure that the highest quality of service is provided in future for those children who need cardiac surgery.

Ms White:

In the week that Tony Blair visited Hamilton and pledged to pour £21 billion extra— that is on record—into the health service and to give priority to consumers ahead of profits, why should any of the facilities, at Yorkhill or Edinburgh, be closed?

Yorkhill carries out 65 per cent of paediatric heart operations in Scotland. It is the only hospital in Scotland with ECMO—extracorporeal membrane oxygenation—life support machines. It has two cardiac surgeons and is respected worldwide for its expertise. Does the minister agree that Yorkhill deserves that respect and must be retained?

Susan Deacon:

With respect, members ought to be careful of engaging in such sensitive issues on a relatively ill-informed basis. The matter is not a debate but a sensitive and important issue. I take the decision very seriously indeed. This is not about closing facilities, but about improving services. As I said earlier, every clinician agrees that the best thing for Scotland is to unify paediatric cardiac surgery on one site. To reduce this debate to a turf war between one end of the M8 and the other is to do a great disservice not only to the national health service, but, most of all, to the people who rely on the paediatric surgery service.

That is the usual Labour-speak. You are the ones who are starting a turf war.

Order. I called you, Ms White, to ask another question.

I have been accused of reducing this debate to a turf war. I got my information from a newspaper article, which quotes Tony Blair.

This is not argument time, it is question time. We will move on.


Teachers

16. Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive what steps it is taking to help bring about a settlement in the dispute over teachers' pay and conditions. (S1O-267) The Minister for Children and Education (Mr Sam Galbraith): The Educational Institute of Scotland has balloted its members. We have stressed the need for a settlement and regret that the EIS has recommended a no vote. We have not yet heard the outcome of the ballot and do not want to prejudge it. As I have said, however, an adverse result would raise serious questions about the future of the present Scottish Joint Negotiating Committee machinery. We are examining that issue closely and are considering the arguments for and against establishing a committee of inquiry into the future of teachers' pay and conditions. However, we await the outcome of the ballot.

Nicola Sturgeon:

Does the minister agree that industrial action by teachers would have devastating implications for children in our classrooms and that averting such action should be one of his top priorities? Does he further agree that the only way to bring about a resolution of the dispute is to negotiate, with both sides being willing to compromise?

Does the minister agree that one of the areas on which the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities must compromise is the proposal to increase the limit on composite class sizes? Rather than issuing idle threats from the sidelines, will he give

a commitment that, if necessary, he will provide the additional resources to ensure that 100,000 children in Scotland do not end up in higher-sized classes than they are in at the moment?

Mr Galbraith:

Resources are not the issue at stake in this dispute. Of course, everyone would bitterly regret industrial action, which no one wants and which is in the interests neither of the teachers nor of the kids. As I said, we are considering all the options and await the outcome of the ballot.

Nicola Sturgeon:

It is clear that COSLA is proposing to increase composite class sizes from 25 to 30 to save £20 million to pay for other aspects of the pay and conditions offer. How, therefore, can the minister suggest that resources are not an issue? Given that the minister holds the purse-strings, does not he think that he has a more active role to play than issuing threats from the sidelines?

Mr Galbraith:

Spending on education has increased every year since 1967. This year, it is being increased by 8 per cent. Resources are available to COSLA to reach a settlement in the dispute. We are keeping a close eye on the situation and we await the outcome of the ballot. In the meantime, we are considering our options, which include setting up a committee of inquiry into the future of teachers' pay and conditions.


National Stadium

17. Fiona McLeod (West of Scotland) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will make a detailed statement on the current financial situation at Hampden stadium and the Scottish football museum and on the implications for the future operation of the national stadium and museum. (S1O-294)

The Minister for Children and Education (Mr Sam Galbraith):

Presiding Officer, I have been asked for a detailed statement and I hope, therefore, that you will indulge me somewhat by allowing me to make my answer slightly longer than usual.

I am very concerned about the financial problems relating to the national stadium at Hampden Park. We are co-operating closely with the major funders—the Millennium Commission, the Scottish Football Association and others—in trying to resolve the current problems and ensure the long-term viability of the stadium.

The funders, including the Scottish Executive, commissioned an independent financial and technical assessment of the project. The final report by the consultants will be submitted shortly. The preliminary findings have already begun to establish a basis of information for reaching firm decisions on the way forward.

We and the other funders are discussing the position with National Stadium plc. It would be inappropriate to comment in further detail at this stage, as there are important issues for the funders and for National Stadium plc to consider in the light of the consultants' preliminary findings.

I have been asking this question since July, and I am glad that the minister is giving members an answer.

Let us have another question, then.

In light of today's news reports, will the Scottish Executive support a proposal to call in the receivers to put Hampden into administration, and how will that affect Scotland's crucial qualifying match against Lithuania on 9 October?

I hope that Fiona realises that I am answering the question because I was asked it, which seems to me to be appropriate.

I asked it in July.

Mr Galbraith:

We and the other funders sent in advisers, and we have just received their preliminary report. The implications for National Stadium plc and for the funders are being discussed and it would be inappropriate for me to take the matter any further at this stage.


Railways

To ask the Scottish Executive what plans it has to improve the railway network in Scotland. (S1O248)

This financial year, more than £208 million of public money will be spent to secure passenger train services in Scotland. An additional £6.1 million will be available for Scottish rail freight schemes.

Brian Adam:

I am grateful to the minister for her answer. However, I would be extremely grateful if she answered the supplementary question put by my colleague, Mr Kenny MacAskill, which directly related to improvements in the line at Larkhall and Hamilton. Can she say when that work will be done or, if it will not be done, what the problem is?

As I said to Mr MacAskill earlier, I am happy to address that matter and will provide a detailed answer in due course.


Signum Circuits

19. Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Executive what progress has taken place in relation to the Borders printed circuit board manufacturer Signum Circuits' request for regional selective assistance which would allow it to expand its operations in Selkirk. (S1O-254)

The Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Henry McLeish):

I am aware that Scottish Borders Enterprise is discussing help that might be made available to assist Signum Circuits with its plans. This week, the enterprise and lifelong learning department received a preliminary approach about regional selective assistance. That form of aid is not at present available in the Borders, although the proposed assisted areas map would, if agreed by the European Commission, extend regional selective assistance coverage to parts of the area.

Christine Grahame:

I thank the minister for his answer.

Is the minister aware that Signum Circuits has a full order book and has set up a European development to bring in business? He may not be aware that the company is in a position to take on 40 or 50 workers formerly employed by Viasystems. Will he assure me that progress towards allowing Signum Circuits, an indigenous Borders firm, to expand into the former Viasystems site will take place as soon as possible, if not immediately?

Henry McLeish:

I warmly echo Christine Grahame's sentiments about Signum Circuits, a company that we want to assist and which has a huge future. When I was in the Borders recently, I had a constructive meeting with the company.

The key issue is that, because there is a Labour Government at Westminster and a Lib-Lab Government in Scotland, we are now extending regional selective assistance to Selkirk and other parts of the Borders. With the greatest respect to Christine, the article in the Border Telegraph of Tuesday 7 September did not allude to any of those issues. In this chamber, we want to work in partnership, to ensure that a company with a great potential realises it as soon as possible, and we will do everything we can to ensure that that becomes a reality.

Is the minister aware that that article was prompted by the fact that the company itself is most concerned that the commercial urgency of expansion does not appear to be given enough weight by the Executive?

Henry McLeish:

I am not conscious of direct quotations in the article, but the key issues are that we met the company and that it has a great plan of action. However, it is significant that regional selective assistance is not yet available. If we are able to get our proposal past the European Commission, we will want to help the company. Indeed, when I met senior officials from the company, I gave them every encouragement by assuring them that the proposal must move forward. We will do everything we can to assist.

Court Proceedings

Phil Gallie, just in time. [Laughter.]

20. Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con):

As an aside, this is the third week running that it has seemed that I was about to lose out. To ask the Scottish Executive what steps it will take to put an end to the situation whereby minor technical discrepancies prevent court proceedings in cases where there is evidence of an individual's wrongdoing. (S1O-272)

The Deputy Minister for Justice (Angus MacKay):

I am grateful that you found time for Mr Gallie, Presiding Officer.

The law governing criminal procedure and evidence is kept under constant review, but it is for the Lord Advocate and the courts to judge when technical procedural errors make court proceedings inappropriate or unsafe.

Phil Gallie:

I thank the minister. Does he recognise that the public cannot understand it when someone who is clearly guilty in the eyes of a court or a jury goes free because of a technical discrepancy, such as the lack of a birth certificate? In another case, there was clear evidence of someone having carried drugs, but he went free because of a mistake on a warrant.

Angus MacKay:

It is for that reason that I am delighted to have the opportunity to remind members that, following several high-profile cases in 1998, a review of procedures that was announced by the Lord Advocate has been completed. New procedures will be in place from 1 October this year, which should mean that those circumstances occur less frequently.