Careers Services
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-05109, in the name of Angela Constance, on the modernisation of Scotland’s careers services.
14:57
Having the right people with the right skills in the right jobs is central to growing Scotland’s economy, and an effective careers service is a crucial foundation for that. Scotland has and will maintain careers services for people of all ages and we must ensure that they respond to all service users, regardless of where they are in their careers.
Within that, we have a clear and necessary priority of supporting our young people as they move on from the world of education into the world of work. There is a compelling case for modernising our careers services. We know that people who use the services want them to be flexible and responsive and that those people want to access them at a time, in a place and in a way that suits them.
Let us not forget that the world of work is changing rapidly. We must ensure that individuals get the support that they need to plan and manage the choices and changes that they are likely to face throughout their careers. The time is therefore absolutely right for modernising Scotland’s careers services. The framework for service redesign and improvement, which I launched last March, provides the blueprint for that.
Moving on from school is an important and exciting step for young people. A huge amount of learning and career opportunities is out there. However, knowing which direction to take can be challenging and confusing, which is why it is important for young people to understand their options, what is involved and how they can access those options.
Young people will of course look to their parents, peers and teachers to help them to make decisions about their careers. Together with the support that is provided by highly skilled and well-informed careers services, that gives young people access to a valuable package of information, advice and guidance.
My aspiration is to have a high-performing education and skills system that is centred on the learner and responsive to employer needs, and which enables individuals to develop the skills that they need to get a job, keep it and progress to a better one, regardless of how far away they are from the labour market.
With that in mind, our careers system will deliver a universal service for all young people, with career management skills delivered in the classroom and additional tailored support for young people who are in the greatest need.
I am interested in the minister’s comments on a
“universal service for all young people”.
I have in front of me “Putting Learners at the Centre—Delivering our Ambitions for Post-16 Education”, which says that she intends to have a “universal all-age” service. Is she abandoning people who are not under the age of 25?
Absolutely not. One of the strengths of the careers service as it stands but enhanced by modernisation is that it will be flexible and responsive. With the use of technology, the system will enable people once they have left education to access information and exercise their right to face-to-face contact. Nobody—certainly not anybody in the Government—is abandoning any young person of any age.
Skills Development Scotland is, of course, driving forward modernisation, and it is working closely with partners in doing so. Our approach in Scotland can truly claim to be pioneering, in marked contrast to the approach taken south of the border. Indeed, it has been praised by Dame Ruth Silver, who is co-chair of the House of Commons skills commission, as being both
“impressively panoramic and highly professional in its ambition for its nation”.
She described it as an approach that
“trains and hands over to”
individuals
“the skills to navigate for themselves a changing world of changing options.”
I certainly endorse that praise.
We need to equip our young people to seek and grasp career opportunities and ensure that they have the agility to cope when their circumstances change and adapt their plans accordingly. We want all young people to have the skills to do that throughout their working lives.
Skills Development Scotland’s my world of work online service is at the heart of our universal offer. It is available 24/7 and is a cutting-edge resource that holds a wealth of information about the widest range of possible careers and an extensive range of courses that are available to enable people to move towards and into those careers.
We all know that the way in which we communicate and exchange information has changed, and we know that digital devices are ever present in young people’s lives. Young people use the internet to get information on all sorts of things—more than any of us here do—and careers advice is no exception. That is why we are enhancing the careers service with online facilities through my world of work.
The move from face-to-face support to online support has its challenges, of course. Is the minister aware, for example, of the recent figures that I have, which suggest that 83 per cent of schoolchildren in Glasgow are not registered for my world of work?
Let us be clear that a person does not need to be registered to access the careers service, but of course we want young people to register, as we think that that is in their interests. The tool is good and valuable, and we will promote registration.
I believe that the figures to which Mr Smith referred are out of date.
Will the minister take an intervention?
Not just now—I have not finished dealing with Mr Smith’s point.
With every month that goes by, registration increases by 10 to 15 per cent.
I also take exception to the notion that we seem to be replacing face-to-face contact. We are not. If Mr Smith looks at parliamentary questions from Ms Dugdale that I have answered, he will see that 130,000 young people in secondary 4, 5 and 6 will receive a universal careers service.
Will the minister take an intervention?
No, thank you.
Those young people will receive career management skills in the classroom as part of the curriculum for excellence. That is our baseline universal service. In addition to that, we want to tackle the adversity that some of our most disadvantaged young people face in our society. We are determined to use the highly skilled professionals in careers guidance services to help to tackle disadvantage in young people’s lives and to help to improve the life chances of all our young people.
Of course, all young people—and, in fact, everyone in Scotland—will continue to be able to use drop-in careers centres across Scotland and to telephone Skills Development Scotland’s contact centre, in addition to having face-to-face contact. All young people will develop career management skills as part of the curriculum for excellence. For those who most need support, intensive services will continue to focus on young people who are at risk of disengaging beyond school and those who have already disengaged. That will involve individually tailored coaching and planning and on-going support to enable young people to find a career path and then take it up and sustain it.
Our modern careers services therefore offer a much more integrated approach, including face-to-face contact, web-based resources and contact centres, and enable young people to develop their career management skills as an integral element of curriculum for excellence. I want careers guidance services to be at the heart of our education system. Under this Government, they will no longer be a bolt-on service.
The minister says that she wants careers services to be at the heart of the system. How, then, can she explain a 20 per cent cut in front-line services? That is not my figure; it is the figure that Unison has given every member of the Parliament.
Miss Dugdale will be aware—it is no secret—that Skills Development Scotland has had a voluntary severance scheme, which ended in March 2012. However, there has actually been a marginal increase in front-line staff in schools. [Interruption.] Well, I think that the figure for full-time equivalent staff in schools has gone from 246 to 251, which I would have thought should be celebrated, given the tough times in which we live.
It is important that we provide a greater mix and a better balance of support that is firmly focused on individuals’ needs. The new approach is challenging and will require Skills Development Scotland, working with its partners, to build capacity across the learning and support system to ensure that, collectively, they provide the best possible careers services for young people. In doing so, Skills Development Scotland has not sought to reinvent the wheel; rather, it is building on the system and processes that are already in place, including those that several local authorities use to identify individual needs and to tailor and personalise careers services accordingly.
As I said, we need to recognise that the world of work has changed and is constantly evolving. Today, on average, a person will have about 10 different jobs during their lifetime, spanning different occupational sectors and geographical locations. As they go through that, they will need to adapt, move and keep pace with a changing industrial base. To operate successfully in an ever-evolving global economy, Scotland needs a responsive and skilled workforce. Our young people, who are our greatest asset and resource, understand that and are moving with the times. Our careers services need to support the change—standing still is not an option.
I accept that any organisational change is difficult and can be daunting for staff, which is why Skills Development Scotland is supporting its team of skilled careers professionals through the change. That includes unprecedented investment in a programme of professional development, new mobile technology to aid flexible working and, crucially, the creation of a Skills Development Scotland academy. Together, those measures will ensure that all our careers professionals remain at the forefront of international best practice.
The work does not stop there. Careers advice must be supported by a strong understanding of labour market needs. Skills Development Scotland is committed to providing up-to-the-minute information on where the jobs are and where they will be, and on the skills issues that Scottish companies face. That will help us to support individual ambition and drive economic growth. I am pleased to say that our approach for individuals has already been recognised as best practice by the United Kingdom Commission for Employment and Skills.
I am not a member of the Education and Culture Committee and I am quite new to the issue, but I have read the briefing from Unison, which says that 93 per cent of SDS staff disagree with the statement that the new service delivery model will result in an enhanced service. If the new approach is so good, why do the staff not support it?
I am aware of that survey only because it is quoted in the Unison briefing that has been distributed to members today. I have of course seen press comments about the Unison briefing. It is unfortunate that the briefing has not been provided to SDS, the employer. I cannot comment in detail on information that I and Skills Development Scotland have not received.
I will say, to reassure Mrs Scanlon, that the survey—
Will the minister give way?
No.
The survey had 350 staff—[Interruption.]
Ms Dugdale, sit down.
I understand that 350 staff participated in the survey, out of a head count of 1,150 staff. The survey took place before the intensive face-to-face engagement of senior Skills Development Scotland staff with their front-line staff and before the commencement of the intensive continuous professional development training that I mentioned. I hope that that reassures Mrs Scanlon, who is understandably concerned about Unison’s concern—[Interruption.]
Can we stop having remarks from a sedentary position?
The Government is firmly committed to high-quality universal careers services for people of all ages. We are committed to services that are independent, impartial and informed and which support individual young people and employers.
We should rightly be proud of our careers services, which have been instrumental in achieving a record 87.2 per cent of school leavers sustaining further learning, training or work. However, we still have a job to do and I am confident that if we work together we can build in our young people the capacity to plan and manage their careers, which will improve their life chances and help to grow our economy.
I move,
That the Parliament agrees that the modernisation of Scotland’s career services is vital to economic recovery in Scotland and to improving people’s ability to manage their careers throughout their lives; agrees that Skills Development Scotland’s service modernisation is in line with the Scottish Government’s careers strategy, published in March 2011, which focuses on offering a modern service for all Scotland’s people, making use of the latest technology, training and labour market information to ensure that individuals get the support that they need to enable them to succeed in their careers; also agrees that this supports delivery of Opportunities for All and plays a key role in ensuring that Scotland’s young people make a successful transition from education into the world of work, and further agrees that the Scottish Government’s commitment to continue working with a wide range of partners, including employers and individuals, will help to achieve its shared ambitions for young people across Scotland in the short, medium and long term.
15:11
My experience of being a recipient of careers guidance at school was not particularly good, but that probably says more about my attitude as a surly, spotty youth than it does about the ability, or lack of it, of the careers staff involved—[Interruption.] I hear Mr Russell muttering about that.
No.
I think that in this case Mr Russell was the innocent party. Some of his colleagues were certainly intervening.
I humbly apologise. Someone must have the same dulcet tones as Mr Russell.
Help for young people with careers development is important. Our young people need to develop skills and make the right subject choices at school and the right choices for college and university, so that they can prepare for the increasingly fast-paced and volatile jobs market.
Careers services are also critical to development in the wider economy, as is evident from the high levels of youth unemployment in Scotland. In my council area, which the minister knows well, the youth unemployment rate is a worrying 30 per cent.
On the basis of the evidence that is before us, the minister’s self-satisfied motion, which seeks to celebrate reform, is misguided and does not reflect life in the real world. As I am sure that the Presiding Officer knows, I am always willing to applaud the Government when it does good things, and I would genuinely have preferred to be able to compliment the minister on implementation of effective reforms in the careers service. It is unfortunate that evidence is mounting that the so-called modernisation of the careers service is, like college regionalisation, driven by a cost-cutting agenda, which is leaving tens of thousands of young people with little or no real careers guidance.
As SDS confirms in its “Corporate Strategy 2012/15”,
“The Scottish Government’s Career Information Advice and Guidance Strategy ... places a particular emphasis on giving individuals the ability to manage their own career journeys by developing the relevant skills.”
However, the ability to manage the career journey is being driven in one direction: away from people and human interaction and towards the web-based service, my world of work.
There are serious misgivings about the effectiveness and impact of my world of work. Those concerns fall broadly into two camps: first, the number of young people who have registered for the service—a key point is that this is not the number who have actually used it; and, secondly, the effectiveness of the web-based service for those young people who actually log on and use it.
In 2009, academic researchers Cathy Howieson and Sheila Semple were commissioned by SDS to look at web-based services. Their report concluded:
“the value of career websites in supporting users’ career development remains untested. Very little is known about the impact of career websites on young people’s career-related knowledge and skills and whether such websites can deliver the gains that have been identified as accruing previously from CIAG”—
that is, careers information, advice and guidance. The researchers went on to ask:
“Do all young people have the technical abilities to use websites, are they able to deal with the volume and complexity of the information available?”
I am certainly aware of the research that those reputable researchers conducted in 2009, which was actually pre my world of work. Does Mr Findlay accept that an important finding of that work is that young people value both access to web-based information and face-to-face contact?
I am just coming to that point. The academics suggest that web-based services, while potentially a useful tool, should not replace the current face-to-face contact, which they found was
“valued by pupils and also by teaching staff.”
We agree with that. The researchers say that web-based services provide information, not advice—which is a critical distinction—and that young people, no matter their ability or background, need help in interpreting information and developing a career plan. Incidentally, the research that the minister referred to was embargoed by SDS because it did not like its conclusions.
An SDS spreadsheet identifies that tens of thousands of young people across Scotland are no longer accessing any form of careers guidance. Drew Smith has referred to the figures for his area, but the national figure is that, up until 31 October, only 17 per cent of Scotland’s school pupils had registered with my world of work. In my local authority area, the registration rate is only 16 per cent. That is not the fault of councils because, irrespective of the political colour of the administration, the registration figures across Scotland are alarming: in Angus, the figure is 11 per cent; in Argyll and Bute, it is 19 per cent; in the Shetland Islands, it is 14 per cent; in Perth and Kinross, it is 17 per cent; in Dumfries and Galloway, it is 16 per cent; and in Highland, which has the highest registration rate, it is 37 per cent.
Why are those numbers so low? Well, SDS has adopted a new traffic-light system, which categorises our young people as red, amber or green. That determines whether they will receive careers guidance or be left to manage their own career journey. It is estimated that 100,000 young people are in the green category, where pupils receive what the minister referred to as the “SDS universal offer”. That sounds very grand, but in practice it means half a school period—which could be delivered to a class or a group—on the CMS framework and another half period on my world of work. SDS counts those as two interventions per pupil. A session delivered to a year group of 200 pupils in a hall counts as 400 individual interventions and is recorded accordingly.
Even with that creative accountancy, if only 17 per cent of pupils are registered, we can see clearly that tens of thousands are receiving little or no careers guidance at all.
Will Mr Findlay give way?
Certainly.
As Mr Findlay is so well informed by his trade union and Skills Development Scotland sources, does he accept the commitment that has been given that, in the context of classroom groups, over the course of the next year SDS staff will see every S4, S5 and S6 pupil to tell them about career management skills and to introduce them to my world of work, in addition to which people can come forward to seek more advice? Does he recall what standard of information and advice were available prior to 2008? Is he saying—
Presiding Officer, I think that we have heard enough from the minister now.
Is the member saying that we used to guarantee every young person access to careers guidance pre 2008?
Mr Findlay, you accepted the intervention, but I will give you the time back.
My question is not about whether SDS will eventually get round to seeing all pupils. There are pupils in classes now who are getting no careers guidance at all. That is the real issue. I am also advised by people in education that many pupils are unassigned to any category, but that was denied by SDS senior management when they appeared before the Education and Culture Committee last week. Perhaps, in her closing speech, the minister could clarify the position.
The Government’s approach seems to be underpinned by an unproven and untested assumption that the 100,000 young people categorised as green will use the my world of work website and may not want or need face-to-face guidance. However, the university drop-out rate of 9.4 per cent suggests that young people of all abilities need to be helped into making good careers choices.
In the post-school setting, staff numbers and office opening hours are being reduced, drop-in services are being ended, an appointment-only system is being introduced and advisers are being stopped from carrying out home visits and taking clients to interviews in their cars. How will those actions help to make inroads into youth unemployment?
That is all dressed up in the language of modernisation—a loaded word that is often applied to give the impression that it means progress. Unison, which represents SDS staff, believes that modernisation is a cover for
“budget cuts rather than the drive to improve the service”.
Those cuts have resulted in 200 front-line staff losing their jobs. I have no idea where the minister gets the idea that it has been an increase in staffing.
Unison was so concerned at the changes and cutbacks that it conducted a survey of its members, as other speakers have said. The results are startling. Only last month, 89 per cent of the 400 staff who responded either disagreed or strongly disagreed with the assertion that
“The new service delivery model will result in an enhanced service for the people of Scotland”.
Morale is low, and staff feel deskilled and that their professional judgment is no longer required.
Unison also identifies SDS as having a culture in which there is no room for any debate on the organisation’s direction. SDS has form on that. It does not appear to like to hear other people’s views. As I mentioned, it embargoed the previous research, despite the fact that it commissioned it. The academics who conducted the research are currently engaged in further research, but SDS has ordered its staff not to co-operate with that research. To be frank, that is astonishing and the minister simply must step in and not allow that to happen.
Just because somebody brands something with the label “modernisation” does not mean that it is good or that it is better than what went before. The changes that are being made are untested and unproven.
There is no independent research that states that the more clever somebody is, the less they need to see a careers adviser or the better they are at managing their own career. By the end of October, 83 per cent of secondary school pupils were unregistered. We are very worried about that. The Government should be worried too but its approach so far is complacent in the extreme.
I move amendment S4M-05109.2, to leave out from first “agrees” to end and insert:
“acknowledges that, at a time of high and rising unemployment, careers information, advice and guidance is increasingly important to young people in school and those seeking opportunities post-school; believes that web-based services should be viewed as useful information tools that complement and supplement the careers advice and guidance system rather than as a replacement; is concerned at what it understands are the very low levels of registration by school pupils on the web-based system, My World of Work, and believes that the red, amber and green method of categorising pupils is resulting in many receiving little or no careers guidance; notes the reduction of 20% in frontline staff and the decline in opening hours of careers offices; further notes the results of two recent careers staff surveys that have raised serious concerns about the new service model, and urges the Scottish Government to reconsider its careers strategy and to work with Skills Development Scotland, careers staff, trade unions, academics and other stakeholders to carry out a full and rigorous assessment of the services being provided.”
15:23
Last month, the importance of careers guidance was put into sharp focus for the cross-party group on colleges and universities. Bill Porterfield of Burn Stewart Distillers, who was providing a report about the ambitions that he and some other local businesses have for helping young people into successful careers, began his contribution with the following observation:
“When exam time comes, the education system tells you to put away your calculators, your mobiles and your textbooks, and try to remember everything you have learnt for the last two years for a two hour exam. Don’t copy anyone … and don’t ask anyone for help. This must be all your own work”.
What happens on day 1 in the workplace? You are handed a calculator, a mobile and a set of instructions. You are told not to rely on anything that you have learned up till now and, whatever you do, to ask for help. It is the absolute opposite of the academic experience that finished only a few weeks before.
That is a bit of satire, perhaps, but it nonetheless serves to set out the culture shock that many young people face when they enter the world of work. At stake is somebody’s future career and their ability to know what to expect, understand the appropriate ethos, take instruction and know their rights and responsibilities. In short, it is as much about having good communication skills and how the person adds value to the workplace as it is about their qualifications.
The earliest discussions in a pupil’s school life about possible career paths can have the most significant impact. They by no means determine exactly what the pupil will do post school, but they certainly sow the seeds for possible paths.
It is, therefore, vital that those initial discussions are well informed and properly followed up, rather than involving mandatory chats from a teacher to the whole class or in some cases the whole year group. In the past, and even at a few schools today, the latter approach has been all too familiar and has done little more than advise pupils which prospectuses to read or which websites to use.
If the philosophy of earliest identification is true in looking after the social and educational needs of our youngest children, it is also true for careers guidance. In my book, that means starting out with better careers guidance in the early years of secondary school, prior to subject choice for external qualifications.
I would argue strongly that effective guidance is needed on why there are different approaches to the disciplines of science, arts and social sciences. Members may be surprised to learn that although pupils often know which subjects fall into those categories, they are not always aware of how one learns in the different disciplines. Knowledge must be complemented by an early understanding of the world of work and the skills that are required in any occupation.
We should be clear about schools’ obligations. First, there is—not least because of the principles that underpin the curriculum for excellence document “Building the Curriculum 4”—an obligation to ensure that the guidance that is provided at school is personal and no longer shaped by a-one-size-fits-all approach. Such an approach may be fine for the initial session, but it is certainly not appropriate as pupils begin to discuss their individual programmes.
I commend those schools throughout Scotland that take time to interview their pupils on a regular one-to-one basis and which, in the later years of school, ask pupils to select one member of the school staff to act as a personal tutor. The fact that the pupil has a choice has the huge advantage of ensuring that the system has a high chance of success and that the pupil sees that member of staff on a regular basis.
Secondly, schools have an obligation to ensure that they fully involve parents in the process, given that parents remain the biggest influence on young people’s choices in the early stages. It makes things much better if school and home are working together, and it is beneficial when local businesses or recruitment agencies can be involved too. As was said at the cross-party group, it is never too early to start work on what expectations are in the workplace and which skills are required in any professional working environment.
School are also obliged to ensure that they track pupils once they have left school so that they become much better informed about how well the careers guidance has worked and where it might be falling short. Universities and colleges are doing that exceptionally well just now, and such an approach should be done at school level.
This afternoon, the Scottish Government has set out the key elements of the strategy to modernise careers services across Scotland. That is welcome, but only as far as it goes. There is no doubt that some of the new approaches that have been highlighted will be enormously beneficial in providing youngsters with a much better awareness of what options are available. However, the strategy must be expanded considerably. I have concerns on two fronts, one of which echoes the concerns that Labour set out this afternoon.
First, what matters most is the quality of the information that is available and the ability of the youngster to understand and use information appropriately. New technology—especially new collaborative websites—can be important, but success will be determined by the qualitative judgments that the youngster makes. That requires human as well as technical input, and we should be in no doubt about the need for a fully co-ordinated approach in providing that. I whole-heartedly agree with Labour’s view that there is grave cause for concern about some of the evidence that was provided to the Education and Culture Committee, from which it was clear that by no means all the stakeholders involved agree on the best way forward.
Specifically, as Labour has said, there is concern that there is still scope for too many people to fall through the net. Labour has pointed to the registration issue, which is a serious concern. While I understand the principles of the system that the Government is trying to put into operation, I think that we must look carefully at expanding the whole process so that we not only have more youngsters involved, critically, at an earlier stage, but are satisfied that the process has the confidence of the main stakeholders.
As a politician and a former schoolteacher, I cannot overemphasise how important careers guidance is. We must get our approach to it right and we must be a bit broader in our outlook than the Scottish Government currently is.
I move amendment S4M-05109.1, to insert at end:
“, and recommends that the most significant progress is likely to be made if there is more personalised careers guidance available to all pupils in the early years of secondary school that is in line with the main principles of the curriculum for excellence and actively involves other partners such as local businesses, colleges and universities.”
We now turn to the open debate. We have a little bit of time in hand at this stage, so we will have speeches of six minutes.
15:30
The Institute of Career Guidance, the leading professional body for the careers guidance sector in the United Kingdom, with a membership of 3,500 practitioners, has on its website the following definition of what careers guidance should be:
“Career guidance refers to services and activities intended to assist individuals of any age and at any point throughout their lives, to make educational, training and occupational choices and to manage their careers. Such services may be found in schools, universities and colleges, in training institutions, in public employment services, in the workplace, in the voluntary or community sector and in the private sector. The activities may take place on an individual or group basis and may be face-face or at a distance (including help lines and web based services). They include career information provision ... assessment and self-assessment tools, counselling interviews, career education programmes (to help individuals develop their self awareness, opportunity awareness, and career management skills), taster programmes ... work search programmes, and transition services.”
The definition was adopted by the Institute of Career Guidance after it was used in international reviews conducted by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, the European Commission and the World Bank.
Last year, the Government published the report “Career Information, Advice and Guidance in Scotland: A Framework for Service Design”, which stated that the careers service must
“make more of a difference to more people – school pupils; students and graduates; those who are in work or out of work; and those with low or no skills.”
In the foreword, the Minister for Youth Employment, Angela Constance, said:
“Career Information, Advice and Guidance is more important than ever in enabling people and businesses to develop their knowledge and skills in order to take full advantage of the opportunities before them.”
She continued:
“our aim is to enhance significantly the range and quality of services across the country – and make it easier than ever for people and employers to access Career Information, Advice and Guidance.”
The new framework continues the self-referral model of young people accessing careers services in schools, which was introduced in 1984. It aims to respond to the differing needs of individuals. Those requiring only a little assistance will be encouraged to use the new website; others will require six to eight face-to-face interviews with careers advisers; and a small number will require a more intensive support mechanism to get ready for the world of work.
In August 2011, SDS launched the my world of work website, which is dedicated to all-age careers advice. Since its launch, it has attracted 150,240 registrations, and the number is up 11.6 per cent in November alone. More than 70,000 registrations were by young people between the ages of 12 and 19, which is the result of careers advisers visiting schools and promoting the website to young people.
The Careers Service, the forerunner of SDS, previously had a careers website. Danny Logue explained at the Education and Culture Committee:
“In 1985, we discussed the introduction of a careers database called microdoors; in 1993, we discussed careers company websites; and in 2002, the Careers Scotland website was introduced.”—[Official Report, Education and Culture Committee, 27 November 2012; c 1649.]
The new website—my world of work—continues that tradition, but it is an enhanced and expanded website, with additional tools. The website has a curriculum vitae builder; tests to help identify an individual’s strengths and where their skills would be relevant; and film clips providing insights into unfamiliar fields, which is useful for people who are either starting off in their careers or who have lost their job and need to widen the search. The website also carries a list of current vacancies.
In Scotland, more than 70 per cent of homes have internet access, and many young people have access to the internet on smart phones or tablet computers.
Will the member take an intervention?
Not just now, thanks.
Therefore, young people are now able to access the careers website 24 hours a day, seven days a week. However, if an individual still needs assistance, they will get it. Malcolm Barron of SDS stated:
“if they find that they are still confused, uncertain and unsure about what their next step should be, they should get advice from a highly qualified, professional careers adviser.”
He added:
“The other point is that, if a parent feels that their son or daughter is struggling, they have an opportunity to make the application as well.”—[Official Report, Education and Culture Committee, 27 November 2012; c 1644-5.]
Will the member take an intervention?
That was confirmed by the minister when she said in her recent answer to Drew Smith:
“we are retaining access to a universal service in which any young person who wishes an appointment or face-to-face contact with a well-paid professional will receive that.”—[Official Report, 24 October 2012; c 12506.]
SDS is, along with school guidance staff, integrating a whole system of career management into the curriculum for excellence. Danny Logue stated at the committee:
“we are looking at how we build young people’s capacity to manage their careers, not just at the transition point of leaving school but throughout their working lives”.—[Official Report, Education and Culture Committee, 27 November 2012; c 1653.]
David Cameron, an education consultant, agrees that the curriculum for excellence can support this development. He stated in The Times Educational Supplement in June:
“I think a lot of the skills we are trying to encourage through CfE would actually help young people around this, because it is about decision-making, being able to see what is out there, to look at that against your own capacities and make good choices.”
Will the member take an intervention?
One measure of the success of the modernisation of the careers service, in conjunction with the opportunities for all guarantee, will be the successful outcomes of those pupils with positive destinations. The latest figures that are available show 87.2 per cent of school leavers achieving a positive destination, which is a record high.
Before I call Neil Bibby, I say again that I have some extra time for members who take interventions, so I can give them some time back.
15:37
That was the first time that I have heard an SNP member quote David Cameron, but there is a first time for everything.
It is important that we have this debate, because there is no doubting the important role that good-quality careers advice, information and guidance play in setting young people on the best path for the future. The Scottish Government’s 2011 framework for service redesign and improvement describes a
“commitment to all-age, universal Career Information, Advice and Guidance as a central feature of the Scottish skills system.”
That is something that we would all welcome, across the chamber. However, it appears from the reaction to the new system from those who are working directly on its implementation and from the recent registration statistics for the my world of work website that young people are not getting the advice or information that they need. I believe that the Scottish Government has failed to grasp the difference between careers information and careers advice.
As we have already heard, the new schools service that is offered by Skills Development Scotland categorises pupils according to perceived need in a traffic-light system. Green pupils are expected to use the online services that are offered by Skills Development Scotland’s my world of work website. Amber pupils—those who have poor attendance or low attainment or who come from so-called difficult backgrounds—are seen by careers advisers. Red pupils, of whom there are only about 400 nationally, according to Unison, are those who are already disengaged from education, involved with social work or in criminality, or who have learning needs. They are diverted to organisations, including charities, that offer alternative provision, such as the Prince’s Trust.
About 100,000 pupils, or 75 per cent, will be put in the green category. They are considered to have good training or job prospects. As a result, about three quarters of Scottish students will not automatically get tailored, professional advice about their next steps in life. At the vital juncture between school and employment or tertiary education, about 100,000 young people will not get that advice. I appreciate that, in tough times, it is necessary to make choices about priorities, but I do not believe that it is necessary or the right thing for 100,000 pupils not automatically to get tailored careers advice.
Is Neil Bibby aware of the system that Skills Development Scotland inherited, whereby young people had to request information and guidance from professional careers staff? Even in the good old days, young people did not get advice automatically; they had to request it through an antiquated card index system.
I do not contend that the situation before was brilliant, but the fact is that the current situation is unacceptable. Giving young people one-on-one advice, to allow them a decent chance of getting a job, is not too much for them to ask for. However, that is exactly what it is for the minister, and she is asking young people to ask for advice. I fear that many young people will not ask for it when they need it and that many people will fall through the gap if things proceed as they are.
The evidence from professionals is clear. In its evidence to the Education and Culture Committee last week, Unison argued that its members working in careers advice had serious reservations about the careers information, advice and guidance strategy. In a survey of Unison members, 92 per cent believed that the new RAG—red, amber, green—model created a danger of people slipping through the net. The message is clear: a website is not a replacement for face-to-face contact.
Additionally, a web-based system presents problems for young people. Gordon MacDonald mentioned that 70 per cent of people have access to the internet. However, more than 30 per cent of Scots do not have access to broadband in their home. It is therefore no wonder that registration for the website is so low. Closing careers offices will not help those young people to access the new online careers service.
Does Neil Bibby agree—
Can we have Drew Smith’s microphone on, please?
Thank you, Presiding Officer. Does Neil Bibby agree that it is precisely in those areas where young people are most likely to find themselves unemployed that we find the lowest rate of high-quality broadband access, at home and often in schools?
I agree with that, as a West Scotland MSP, and will come to that later.
It is not just professionals who appear to be at odds with the new careers system. The uptake of the my world of work website has been frankly anaemic in the region that I represent and across Scotland. The most recent figures that I have seen show that in Inverclyde around 12 per cent of school pupils have signed up to the website; in Renfrewshire, the figure drops to 11 per cent; and in East Renfrewshire, it drops again to just 10 per cent. The average in my region is 14 per cent—below the Scottish average. My region has one of the highest youth unemployment rates in the UK. I worry that a majority of pupils will not access the my world of work website and not only that pupils will miss out on careers advice but that up to 80 or 90 per cent of pupils could even miss out on careers information. That situation is unacceptable.
Many parents and young people will be rightly worried about pupils not having access to a careers adviser. All pupils—regardless of their academic performance—deserve the right advice. As Neil Findlay alluded to, even in areas with the highest academic achievement in Scotland we see high rates of university dropouts. In the current economic climate, it is more vital than ever that pupils make the right decisions when leaving school.
The minister regularly claims that she cares passionately about young people and giving them the best life chances. I do not doubt that for a minute. What we need the minister to do is to show that her policies are in the best interests of young people and give people confidence in the system. I hope that she will use her power to allay the fears of professionals, parents and—most importantly—pupils.
Finally, the Government has framed this debate as being about modernising the careers service; the reality is that the Government is cutting the careers service. It is a cut when there is a 20 per cent reduction in front-line careers service staff and it is a cut when 100,000 Scottish pupils do not get tailored careers advice.
There is a difference between information and advice. I have already set out the information; my advice is for the Government to rethink its approach.
15:44
Before I start, I point out that the David Cameron whom my colleague, Gordon MacDonald, mentioned is in fact a highly respected educational consultant in Scotland. I would hate for Mr Bibby to get into trouble for making an inadvertent error, and I am sure that he will correct the record timeously. [Interruption.]
Order.
I want to talk about the amber group of young people that Skills Development Scotland has identified as being in need of additional support from the careers service because of poor academic attainment or attendance. I understand that an estimated 35,000 people will be classified as amber under the new strategy, and I understand that they will receive between six and eight one-to-one meetings per term.
I am surprised that Labour in particular has such a negative view of the traffic-light system that targets this group, given that it was the previous Labour Administration that identified this group as a priority. They were identified as NEETs—or young people not in education, employment or training. We do not use that term now but it was understood at the time that there were far too many of them in Scotland. The highest proportion—
Will the member give way?
No, thanks—I want to make progress. [Interruption.]
Mr Findlay.
Scotland had the highest proportion of these young people in Europe. Such was the concern over these teenagers that the previous Administration under Jack McConnell brought together the Smith group, which comprised our most successful business leaders, to work with Government on a solution. As well as the chairman, Lord Smith of Kelvin, the group included Tom Hunter, Willie Haughey and Jim McColl, who have all put their money where their mouths are to fund various entrepreneurial and innovative educational opportunities.
The Smith group has continued to work closely with this SNP Government. It was on its recommendation that the Minister for Youth Employment, the first such appointment in these islands, was created, and we have taken forward many of its ideas about increasing vocational education with our record number of modern apprenticeship starts and our opportunities for all programme for 16 to 19-year-olds.
The modernisation of the careers service, with a focus on the young people now identified as amber, was a recommendation of the Smith group from its earliest times. These businessmen did not give up their time and money because everything was hunky-dory. The system, including the delivery of careers advice, was simply not working for a great many of the young people who needed the most help.
That was made clear by none other than Jack McConnell himself. In February 2006, a Government press release announcing the establishment of the Smith group said that
“Additional careers advice based in schools, targeted on those who need it most”
was an essential part of the way in which Governments should move forward. The Smith group itself said:
“effective targeting, based on reliable evidence, supports a case for significant levels of investment in those parts of Scotland where the NEET problem is highest. This population of young people is the most likely to become highly dependent on the public sector throughout their adult lives. Early intervention can make a profound difference to their life chances.”
Early intervention has been a byword of this Government’s approach to service delivery, and it applies as much to the careers service as it does to other areas of Government policy such as early years education. The approach is already having a positive effect on the problems that the Smith group identified. For example, figures published in June show that 87.2 per cent of pupils who left school in 2010-11 were in positive destinations by March 2012, up from the previous year’s 85.2 per cent and a record high.
Of course, we must not forget the majority of our youngsters, who are in the 100,000-strong group classified as green and who will benefit from careers advice throughout the school curriculum through curriculum for excellence, the my world of work website and engagement with professional careers advisers, if that is what they want. I was very encouraged to hear Skills Development Scotland’s Malcolm Barron tell the Education and Culture Committee that there is no single solution for each young person and that careers professionals will work with teachers to deliver careers advice through group sessions and personal and social education classes. As the minister and Skills Development Scotland have repeatedly pointed out, no young person who wants an interview will be denied one.
I, too, was concerned about the allegations that young people might be unable to access one-to-one careers advice but I am now absolutely satisfied that that is not the case. A number of people have quoted the Unison survey, which we have still to see. It strikes me that it is not the most extensive survey, although I might revise that view once I have had the opportunity to examine it more closely. However, when I carried out my own survey by calling my own local college—Dumfries and Galloway College—I heard very positive feedback on the website from staff and young people.
One young person said:
“The website was very helpful. It is easy to understand and sorts everything out with a step by step guideline for you. I would use it again in the future.”
Another person said:
“I used it loads recently for my strengths and weaknesses. My CV is on there and I will use it in the future for accessing this.”
The staff feedback was positive, too. One staff member said:
“We do use it a lot and it is great as the students can pick up their CV, cover letter, strengths and weaknesses on the move with any computer.”
I want to comment on other feedback on the website and the modernisation of the careers service.
I am afraid that you will have to be brief.
Ken Cunningham CBE, the general secretary of School Leaders Scotland, has endorsed the SDS’s approach. He says:
“it dovetails with the wide range of support which schools are able to provide through a pupil’s time in school. It recognises the sheer diversity of need and offers a wide range of support targeting specifically those most in need at the appropriate time.”
You must conclude, please.
I am happy to conclude with the words of Ken Cunningham, who endorses the modernisation of the careers service very effectively.
15:51
Youth unemployment is a huge problem, and it is getting worse. In my Motherwell and Wishaw constituency, there are more than 3,000 unemployed 16 to 24-year-olds.
Young people need help. They need help to make the right choices about their future, to get qualifications, to acquire skills and to apply for jobs. I was not convinced that the right help was being provided so, a few months ago, I looked into the local careers service that is offered by SDS. I was not happy with what I found.
For example, the local careers office is hidden away in Motherwell College and its location is not signposted. With thousands of young people in North Lanarkshire not in education, employment or training, and with the cuts in the college sector, it occurred to me that that may not be the most convenient location. To compound that, there is a 20 per cent reduction in front-line staff.
I doubted that the face-to-face access provided by those staff could be replaced by pushing young people towards web access and centralised careers provision, so I also had a look at the my world of work website. There was one telephone number on the contact page, but even that was a helpline for using the website—it did not put people in touch with someone who could give careers advice. Searching the site for Motherwell or Wishaw returned a couple of couple of courses at the college, but—surprise, surprise—there was no link to the local careers advice office that was based in the college. Was that the minister’s vision for an improved service?
It also came as no surprise to discover that, locally, only 14 per cent of the young people have registered on the my world of work website. That is only one in seven, which proves to me that the plan is not working. Will the minister explain why SDS is not co-operating with the academics who are conducting research into the new web-based service? What are the minister’s views on the previous research carried out for SDS?
It has been identified that there are shortcomings in the system. I hope that the minister agrees that SDS should work with anyone who can help address the problems or improve the system.
Having visited my constituency’s local careers office in Motherwell College, I was more convinced than ever that careers advice should be more easily accessible for all, which means somewhere central where people can go and speak face-to-face with an adviser. The staff whom I spoke to appreciated those concerns, so I decided to approach the council to see whether it could identify suitable premises in Motherwell or Wishaw town centre.
When SDS was put on the spot, the inaccessibility of the service was clear. With only 14 per cent of young people signing up to the my world of work website, the weakness of the web-based solution cannot be denied. SDS agreed to work with the council.
I am pleased to say that that has borne fruit, with the careers service now lined up to occupy part of the one-stop-shop in Motherwell. Of course, that victory for common sense is only part of what needs to be done, but it is also very much the exception to the rule, as has been heard from other areas.
I am also concerned about the traffic-light system that is being used to filter young people in order to decide who deserves attention. For many young people, the system is failing to provide support. There is an issue about whether the support that is offered is appropriate to the categories and whether the categories are being correctly assigned or, in some cases, even assigned at all.
The web system is aimed at the 75 per cent of the 16 to 19-year-olds who are in the green category. What we know of registrations suggests that only a quarter of them have actually signed up. Those pupils are those who fare best academically, but it is a mistake to assume that that translates into their not needing help with careers beyond what is provided on the my world of work website. It can be difficult for pupils to pick the right courses and plot out career destinations, whatever their level of academic ability or attainment.
Where is the evidence to support SDS? How does it compare to the evidence that it does not want to talk about?
The move to an appointments system is also making life difficult for older users, with drop-in opportunities diminishing and outreach for vulnerable youngsters being put out of reach.
All in all, the picture is one of a service that is perpetuating a dogma that underpins its reforms, which are being shown to be unfit for purpose. The strong suspicion is that the dogma serves the purpose of saving money rather than of serving the people.
We are now getting a bit tight for time and I can allow only a little leeway for interventions.
15:56
Most of us have said, in one way or another, how important the careers service is and how important it is that we get it right. I believe that the proposals before us are the right way to go and are a way in which we can get things right.
It has already been mentioned that the days of a one-size-fits-all careers service are over and that the heart of the new careers service is the view that the individual is the most important factor. The claim that the new careers service does not meet the needs of young people is unfounded, and the new approach that was rolled out in September is progressing well.
As I said, the days of a one-size-fits-all careers service are over. Like Mr Findlay, I remember standing in the careers office—it was in the historic town of Paisley a long time ago, probably before Mr Findlay had his meeting—and having my 10-minute interview with the guidance teacher. At that time, saying that I wanted to be an astronaut was probably a wee bit ambitious and caused the teacher to lose interest, but I was a rather headstrong and stroppy teenager. I see that Mr Stevenson is nodding in agreement—he remembers me from then.
Three years ago, a strong-willed young woman from Paisley—Jessica Adam, my daughter—went into the careers service and she, too, had difficulty engaging with the service and ensuring that she could move things forward. Luckily, things worked out for Jessica, but that shows us how important this subject is.
Much has been said about the traffic-light system. It is important that we do not leave anyone behind, regardless of their background. It is naive to say that everyone should follow the same path through the system, because there are people from difficult backgrounds who, if we do not catch them through the curriculum for excellence, will end up not having the fulfilled career that they deserve.
Careers guidance is now much more tailored to the needs of the individual. Any young person—I repeat, any young person—who wants a face-to-face appointment with a careers guidance professional can get one. In Scotland, we are fortunate that we have professional careers information and advice guidance staff. However, given how young people interact with the world these days, using a web page is a lot easier for a lot them than a face-to-face meeting—between their phones and the web, many of them can get access to absolutely anything in that way. We have to ensure that we go down that route.
As has been said with regard to the traffic-light system, some young people need extra-intensive support. The system provides an opportunity for that to be delivered to those who need it. That is the most important thing. Most of us in the chamber agree that we want to do what is best for Scotland’s young people and ensure that they have fulfilled lives, but I think that we have to agree on making systems such as this one work. That is important.
The fact is that the service needs to be tailored to individuals. As the minister said, the workplace has changed dramatically over the past few years, and flexibility needs to be part of the service. The system needs to ensure that all Scotland’s people have an opportunity—I almost said “opporchancity”, which is like something from Francie and Josie—to access a universal careers service. Integrated into the curriculum for excellence, that can and will make a dramatic difference.
Let us put the scare tactics away and have a mature, open debate. Young people are falling through the net. As has been said, any young person who wants an appointment with a careers adviser can get one. At the Education and Culture Committee, SDS’s Malcolm Barron said:
“The group is not fixed. I do not want the committee to get the idea that we are simply putting a stamp on someone and that is that. It is all about working with the school to target the best possible support at the people who need it.”—[Official Report, Education and Culture Committee, 27 November 2012; c 1655.]
Considering that long-term youth unemployment in his constituency is 386 per cent higher than it was just a year ago, I am surprised that the member is not using his speech, which I have listened to for four minutes, to challenge his Government to do something about the lack of jobs in his constituency.
With the greatest respect, I am defending the good people of Paisley by supporting the minister and the Government’s ideas to make a difference. That is exactly what I talked about earlier. We need to look at ideas, as there is no point in the negativity from the Labour benches and saying that nothing can work. Our job is to make things better and make them work. Labour members should give us something constructive, not just say negative things.
Will the member give way?
I will, as it is Mr Findlay.
Does the member realise that only 11 or 12 per cent of young people in his constituency are registered?
As I said, the system has been up and running only since September and things are progressing as time goes on. We must ensure that we make these things work. Are we going to sit here and argue for two and a half hours, getting nowhere, or are we going to build something that can give young people in Paisley and the rest of Scotland an opportunity to move things forward? That is what the Labour Party forgets; Labour members are letting politics get in the way of delivering for the people of Scotland.
For me, the modernisation of the careers service is another example of the Scottish Government’s commitment to Scotland’s young people, ensuring that they have the opportunity to succeed and find a career path that suits them. We must focus on our young people and support them in their future endeavours. The current generation of teenagers and future generations are the most important people in this—let none of us in the chamber lose sight of that.
16:03
For a while, it looked as though the debate might fall victim to the controversies surrounding the Scottish Government’s cuts to the colleges budget and the need to make time for that issue to be debated. I am pleased, however, that the minister has persevered and welcome, in the words of George Adam, the opporchancity to participate in this important debate on the modernisation of Scotland’s careers services.
The need for such modernisation is not hard to justify, given the way in which the world of work has changed and continues to change. As Scottish Chambers of Commerce observed, those who are leaving our schools, colleges and universities now and in the future will
“enter into careers which will cross multiple disciplines in several industries. The roles they perform and the industries in which they do so may not now yet even exist”.
That presents enormous challenges for those who are tasked with developing the skills of our young people and those who are returning to update their skills, but it also places a weighty burden on those who are responsible for providing careers information, advice and guidance.
In that sense, Angela Constance—in her motion and in her remarks this afternoon—is right to underline the rationale for the changes that are being made. She is right also to link the modernisation process with ensuring not simply that Scotland emerges strongly from the current economic difficulties but that we prepare people to manage their careers throughout their lives. She is right to highlight the importance of collaboration with a wide range of partners in achieving the most effective careers service possible.
Where I disagree—and, therefore, where I find difficulty in supporting the motion as it stands—is in the failure to acknowledge any of the concerns that exist in relation to the strategy and, in particular, the way in which it is being implemented. Those concerns are reflected well in Neil Findlay’s amendment, albeit that more of the original motion could have survived the cut, for the reasons that I have mentioned.
Nevertheless, having acknowledged the shared understanding of the need for change and how it might best be achieved, I will expand a bit on where I think the problems in approach and/or execution arise and how they might be addressed.
From a constituency perspective, I remain concerned about what appears to have been a centralisation of service provision. Certain senior roles have been removed from the islands and although attempts have been made to mitigate the impact of that, I believe that there has been a move in the wrong direction.
In its briefing, Unison reflects on the wider problem of office closures and staff cuts across the country. Quite reasonably, it contrasts that trend with the increasing demand that is being placed on the service at a time of high unemployment. In part, that leads Unison to claim that the changes that are being made are driven by a desire to cut budgets rather than by a desire to improve service. Whether that is fair or accurate is largely academic; it is clearly the perception of a large number of staff who are involved in the careers service, whose morale, by all accounts, is worryingly low.
Morale is also being affected by the approach that is being taken to use of the my world of work website. The problem is not the website itself. Scottish Chambers of Commerce is far from alone in recognising that my world of work is
“an excellent innovation ... bringing together advice and information ... in a single portal.”
When they appeared before the Education and Culture Committee last month, Unison representatives absolutely accepted that fact, but serious concerns remain that SDS management, if not the minister, still see the web tool as a replacement for one-to-one careers advice for too many of our young people, as well as for those who have left school.
The research by Howieson and Semple, to which a number of members have referred, demonstrates that although
“young people do indeed value self help services they also wish for personal contact and advice.”
It goes on to point out that, although young people are comfortable in using the internet, many find it challenging to interpret the “volume and complexity” of the information that is available and, importantly, how it relates to their circumstances. That can affect even very able and confident young people, as well as those who have already been identified as needing more intensive support. Moreover, it seems a little premature for SDS and ministers to be making some of their more extravagant claims about what my world of work can deliver before more road testing—ideally, by young people themselves—has been done.
Despite reassurances that a flexible approach is being adopted, school-based careers resources are being focused according to the so-called risk matrix. Those in the red category are to receive six to eight face-to-face sessions, while those who are categorised as green are expected to sign up to the website, which—as Neil Bibby and others have pointed out—a relatively modest number have actually done.
In evidence to the Education and Culture Committee, Unison confirmed that advisers are still offering interviews to proposed green pupils, even when they have not registered on the website. In its submission to the committee, Unison insisted that advisers
“will not turn people away when they seek help just because they haven’t registered on a website.”
That is quite right, too.
Danny Logue of SDS agreed that no young person should be discouraged from seeking advice, yet guidance to advisers has not changed and the firm impression remains that registering on the website is a prerequisite for getting one-to-one advice. If that is wrong, as Ms Constance and others have argued, it is time for ministers to insist that SDS makes that more explicit within the organisation and that it be communicated through schools.
I have a couple of points to make on the critically important careers advice that is available in our colleges and universities. In the case of the latter, I welcome the steps that are being taken to build in careers advice from the outset of a student’s time at university. That may take time to bed down, but it is certainly a sensible approach, and it might avoid an overreliance on the final-year milk round.
As far as colleges are concerned, one of the many concerns about the significant cut in budgets has been about the reduction in the number of staff who are available to provide guidance and careers support. That is another reason why I believe that there must be a rethink by ministers before the budget is finally approved.
The minister opened by reminding us that the debate is about getting the right people with the right skills in the right jobs. I believe that that is achievable, but it will require change. I hope that the minister will reflect on the concerns that I and many others have raised to ensure that we make the right changes in the right way and for the right reasons.
16:09
I welcome the debate. We can all surely agree on the importance of ensuring that young people—indeed, any person—can get the advice that they need to allow them to make informed decisions about their career path.
In preparation for the debate, I am sure that all of us who are taking part in it will have thought back to our experience of careers guidance. Some members have already mentioned their experience. My experience involved one face-to-face interview, which seemed to work out okay for me. That tells me that I was a far less obstinate teenager than Mr Findlay or Mr Adam was, but that is probably no surprise to me, at any rate.
I wonder whether such an approach would be as appropriate or work as well in these times. After all, the world is somewhat different from how it was then. Scottish Chambers of Commerce makes that point in its briefing in advance of the debate. It says:
“The young people graduating from Scotland’s schools, colleges and universities today and in future are entering into a world of work unrecognisably different to that which they would have encountered a generation ago.”
It is appropriate to ensure that careers guidance now is much more tailored to individuals’ needs. The point has been made, but it is worth repeating, that some people will need more intensive support than others.
The my world of work website has come in for some criticism, but it would be somewhat odd these days not to use the internet for careers advice. It is right to use that as part of the approach.
At the tail end of my school experience, I was introduced to this thing that was not called the internet then—it was called the information superhighway—and to email. I thought that it was a load of bunkum and that I would never need to use it, which probably partly explains why I am not an internet millionaire. I make that point because, if I was at school now, my experience would be radically different, because I would have grown up with such technology. Given that, it would be peculiar if we did not use the internet as a key component of any careers service.
Lest people should think that that is the only approach, I say that I would be worried if any young person who is seeking careers guidance and is watching the debate felt that the web-based approach was the only approach to careers advice. I emphasise the point that has been made that any young person who seeks a face-to-face interview for careers guidance with a careers guidance professional can get one.
We should get behind the new approach. I observe that, if it is not working, I am not aware of a single constituent—young person, parent or teacher—who has contacted me to express concern about the new approach. That cannot tell us everything, but it must tell me at least something about what is happening on the ground.
Notwithstanding what Jamie Hepburn just said, does he accept that significant concerns were expressed to the Education and Culture Committee about the extent of the service that is being provided?
I am not a member of that committee, so I have not looked in detail at everything that it has examined. It is right to assess the scheme, but it is a new approach. The my world of work website has been promoted only recently in schools, so it is early days. As for the idea that the registration rate is low, the point was well made that, if we judge a careers service’s success merely by the number of registrations, we are looking at the wrong thing—at the input rather than the output.
Of course we need to look at the approach and ensure that it is working, but it is right at this time to look at modernising the careers service. I return to the point that we are in different times from those formerly, so it is right to look at a new approach.
The my world of work website is a good development, because it is available for people to access 24 hours a day, seven days a week. That is not the case if face-to-face interviews are the only thing on which people are relying, as might previously have been the case.
As Gordon MacDonald said and as I have just pointed out, the website’s roll-out has happened only recently—it began only in September. If we were looking for 100 per cent registration, we would be setting ourselves up for a fall. I reiterate the point that Gordon MacDonald made. Between 31 October and 29 November, there was an 11.6 per cent increase in registration. We should welcome that.
Do I have a little leeway, Presiding Officer?
Very little.
Okay.
People argue that it is all about the web, but that is clearly not the case. There is the SDS helpline and there is the possibility of face-to-face interviews. The approach is multifaceted, and that must be right.
It is peculiar that the Labour Party has criticised the traffic-light system, because it is designed to support those who have been identified as being in the greatest need. I think that Joan McAlpine made that point. I would have thought that Labour members would have welcomed that. I urge them to ditch their negativity and get behind a careers service that is fit for the modern age.
16:15
I am pleased to have been given the opportunity to speak about Skills Development Scotland, and especially the my world of work website. That is an innovative and modern approach to career advice. I enjoyed visiting the website and taking the visual my DNA quiz, which described my aptitudes. I am glad that there are still some options open to me. We never know where we will end up in this fast-moving world.
Skills Development Scotland is best placed to make effective changes after successfully delivering 26,427 modern apprenticeships and supporting 165,578 young people through face-to-face careers services, 54,082 active learners through individual learning accounts, and 13,017 individuals dealing with redundancy. That is quite a formidable record.
SDS is the key organisation that is driving the modernisation efforts. The availability of professional career guidance, information and advice to anybody who desires it is tremendously important, and the ground-breaking skills website is one of the many ways in which SDS will continue to provide exceptional service. Most important, my world of work, along with the contact centre and face-to-face interviews, will allow SDS greater flexibility in supporting youths and tailoring guidance to the specific needs of individual young people. The modernisation of careers services will assist SDS in providing both quality and quantity of support.
Any young person will be able to request a face-to-face appointment with a careers adviser, but it will no longer be the quick, 10-minute appointment of past days. Services will be personalised and focused. No two young people are alike, and planning for their future should not be a cookie-cutter service. Some individuals will need thorough and intensive support. The new range of support options will allow for singular needs to be met.
My world of work is available for 24 hours a day, seven days a week. I am always impressed that young people are becoming ever more technologically savvy. Having a cutting-edge careers system—many of our young people have cutting-edge information technology skills—is essential. In fact, it is the only thing that makes sense.
I mentioned my visit to the my world of work website. The quiz that I took was only one of many services that are available. Users can plan their careers by looking at a range of information about various training opportunities, including video clips. The site even includes ways to find a job using social media. I imagine that that will appeal well to the Facebook and Twitter generation. Access is increased not only by the site’s being available all the time, but because it allows SDS to reach more people in remote locations. As I said, a higher quality and greater quantity of service will be provided.
I have met many young people in secondary schools in my constituency who are determined and have bright futures, and I believe that most young people are like those I have met. That is why the traffic-light system makes sense. There will be young people who have a plan in mind and who will use the my world of work tools to further develop their ideas and career goals. The traffic-light system enables SDS to provide different levels of support as required. Again, the system has been designed to tailor services better to the needs of individual young people. Any individual can request a face-to-face meeting with a careers adviser, but those who are in the red category and those who are most at risk will receive the attention that they desperately need. No student will be stuck in one category for ever; they are not permanently fixed.
Careers services need to be triaged. Those in most need should receive the most personal support, but I doubt that those who are in the red or amber category will have backgrounds that create an environment that enables them to make swift or confident decisions about their future.
As a member of the Education and Culture Committee, I was pleased to have the opportunity to hear from Skills Development Scotland. It is clear that the new approach is better placed to give everyone the opportunities to succeed. The programme was rolled out only in September this year and, by 31 October, there had been 134,629 registrations, more than 70,000 of which were by young people aged 12 to 19. A month later, the total had risen by 11.6 per cent to 150,240 registrations. The programme is in its infancy and, although the number of registrations will certainly increase in the coming months, the success will not be determined immediately—it will be measured by the ability of young people to achieve their desired careers.
A record number of pupils—87.2 per cent—are moving on to positive destinations and the Scottish Government is doing everything in its power to tackle youth unemployment. Although our situation might not be as bad as that for our neighbours, such as Spain, where unemployment among under-24s is running at 55.9 per cent, we can all agree that it is too high.
The Scottish Government’s opportunities for all initiative gives young people between 16 and 19 a training or education opportunity if they desire one. Between 2007 and the end of the current spending review period, the SNP Government will have invested £5 billion in colleges. The SNP promised to deliver 25,000 modern apprenticeships per year in the current session of Parliament. The target has been exceeded, with 26,427 modern apprenticeships being delivered. Fifty-five per cent of 16 to 24-year-olds are employed, compared to the national average of 51 per cent. Completion rates for modern apprenticeships are at the record level of 75 per cent.
The Government is dedicated to providing careers advice and guidance that ensures partnership with organisations that will give high-quality services across a range of careers. That is made evident in the single outcome agreements, which involve working with employers and supporting SDS.
It is no longer the case that individuals will be in only one job for a lifetime. We are in the midst of an era of opportunity when changing one’s job stream is the trend, rather than the exception to the rule. Our careers services need to be prepared to help individuals to track their careers through their lifetimes to unleash their potential.
SDS and the Scottish Government are doing just that by modernising the current system. I look forward to visiting the schools in my constituency and speaking to young people about the resources that are available to them. I will definitely advise them to take the my DNA quiz, as I have done. I commend it to my fellow MSPs, who might gain an insight into alternative opportunities for the future.
16:22
Most speakers have rightly referred to the importance of careers advice. As I think most of us agree, this nation’s greatest resource is its people, particularly its young people, and the careers service is right at the centre of helping them to achieve their potential. It is not only about fitting young people into the right place; it is about opening their eyes and raising their aspirations. I remember the entrepreneur Tom Hunter telling a story about the place where he grew up in Ayrshire. In his village, everybody worked in the pits. People who were working class went down the pit and those who were middle class worked in the office, but everybody worked in the pits. However, when the pits closed, the issue was not just that there were no jobs, but that people in the community could not conceive of how they could earn a living.
I became a teacher for similar reasons. I was the first person in my family to go to university and join a profession. Many of us in that position became teachers, because people aspire to the things with which they are familiar. As a teacher, I found that, too. I well remember arguing with a young guy who was better at physics than I ever was and who wanted to go to college. I tried to get him to go to university, but he was adamant that he did not know anyone who went to university and he would not go. I remember trying to convince a young woman who wanted to be a nurse that she could in fact aspire to be a doctor.
Sometimes, careers advice is about people turning their back on opportunities. On a later occasion, when I worked in Livingston during the previous recession, when youth unemployment was high, Ferranti suddenly took on 100 apprentices and my higher physics class disappeared in its entirety. Many of the people in that class could have aspired to highers and going to university and so on, but they felt that they had to take the chance that was presented to them.
Careers advice is important in trying to ensure that we have the skills that we need in our economy. Even in these difficult times, there are skills shortages, particularly in areas such as science and engineering. There are still opportunities in those areas. The Institute of Physics recently produced a report that showed that there are 190,000 jobs in Scotland in physics-based sectors.
I agree that there is a skills gap in relation to engineering. Dr Peter Hughes, the chief executive of Scottish Engineering, said:
“We welcome the proposals with regard to Delivery of Career Management Skills in the classroom and Group based Career Management Skills for all pupils with coaching for pupils deemed to be at risk. We will do whatever we can to assist you”—
that is, Skills Development Scotland—
“in your endeavours.”
Does the member agree with Dr Peter Hughes?
I find that I almost always agree with Dr Peter Hughes.
I will focus on a particular issue to do with science, technology, engineering and mathematics subjects, to which no one has referred, and in relation to which I think that careers guidance has a role. I am talking about gender stereotyping and the self-limiting choices that young women often make. A group that does not access such opportunities is young women. Only 28 per cent of standard grade physics students are women and only 15 per cent of engineering undergraduates are women. There are opportunities into which careers guidance should be moving young women.
In my experience, careers guidance is about opening and changing minds. That is not just necessary at school—I think that the people who went to Ferranti will have looked for careers guidance later in life—and it is not just for low achievers. However—and I think that this is what Dr Hughes was talking about—it needs to come at an early stage and it needs to be consistent and proactive, because gender stereotypes, for example, are set very early in life.
Above all, careers guidance needs to be face to face. Members talked about the importance of an individualised, personalised service. There is nothing more individualised or personalised than a sensitive professional listening carefully to the person with whom they are dealing and responding in a way that is appropriate to their needs. That is individualisation and personalisation. I was astonished when the minister, without a trace of irony, told us that we should not worry about the 92 per cent of SDS staff who were cynical about the new system, because they had all had high-quality “face-to-face” interventions on the new system. That is the best way to change people’s minds.
The issue is whether the new system is fit for those purposes, and members have brought to the debate a weight of evidence that it is not. The traffic-light model is excluding 100,000 higher achievers from the front-line service that they need. Sign-up rates for the my world of work website must be a cause of concern—the rate in my constituency is 15 per cent, which is even less than the average.
What we have here is a trend in government. The internet-based approach to careers guidance is analogous to approaches that are developing elsewhere. Benefits applicants are expected to apply online, and in preparation for the introduction of self-directed support, local authority social work departments are planning to create web-based choices for the disabled and elderly people who are trying to create their own care packages. I think that we know what is happening. Such approaches sound plausible in an organisational change-management presentation, but they leave the people at the sharp end frustrated, ill-served or downright excluded.
The careers service was not perfect before, but the evidence is that the changes that we have debated are not an enhancement. We should pause, re-examine them and get our approach right.
16:29
I might be one of a tiny minority of people who benefited from having no contact with formal careers advice. As a youngster I was not very well and missed a fair bit of my primary education. The most important classes that I missed were those on how to learn from the education system—a skill that I absolutely flunked.
However, I was fortunate to have well-educated parents and to be brought up in a house that was full of a diverse range of books, which I simply devoured in random order. I read J D Mackie’s “A History of Scotland” when I was five and I read a biography of Lloyd George when I was seven—that probably shows that we are what we read. My reading and my enquiring mind enabled me just about to muddle through—
Will the member take an intervention?
I will wait a little, but I will give way later.
I muddled through and eventually graduated with a modest degree in mathematics. Had I had a good degree, I would have been headhunted for a traditional role in the civil service, ICI, BP or whatever. My girlfriend—now my spouse of 43 years—was the person who consulted the university careers advisory service and, right at the end of my academic career, the advice filtered through to me that I should go into computers. That was the best move that I ever made, but throughout my career I got there by chance.
Given the member’s exciting career—I know that he has been a pilot and a water bailiff and invented the computer—is the answer that we should not give careers advice but just let people read about Winston Churchill and so on when they are five years old?
I used my individual example to illustrate that I have been incredibly lucky by not having careers advice, but luck should not play a part in the lives of children across Scotland.
Such a casual attitude to careers advice, which was adequate or good enough for me in the 1950s and 1960s, is absolutely no longer adequate today. There are now more careers and the more prescriptive rules about entry to careers mean that people need qualifications and need to have studied subjects. To do that, people may need to have received, 10 years in advance of acquiring a qualification, the kind of guidance that Iain Gray talked about—from a very informed basis, I thought—in a way that I neither got nor, as luck would have it, required.
Clearly, having only a single skill is also risky—again, Iain Gray made reference to this—so we need to learn how to learn and learn how to adapt. The first law of epigenetics is that the more highly optimised an organism is for one environment, the more adversely it is affected by a change in that environment. The way in which villages where everyone was employed in coal faced problems when the coal industry went away perfectly illustrates that risk. Good careers advice can pinpoint potential in students that those close to them, and even the students themselves, simply will not spot.
Today’s students are very different from the student that I was. They have keyboard skills and they work computers as extensions of themselves. I was typing by the age of eight and nine, but I did not use a telephone for the first time until I was 15. That might seem rather odd, but the telephone was a much rarer beast, to which I had less access than to a keyboard.
The term “moody teenager” applied not just to Neil Findlay but to me, and I will bet that, if we compare photographs, we will find that I was spottier than he was—and that is an unusual claim to make. As a teenager, the last thing that I would have wanted would have been to have someone looking over my shoulder. I was adapted to private study and to doing things for myself. For many children, that is why it is useful to have online systems that are comprehensive in detail, timely in content and—a key point missing from the debate so far—personalised. Such interactive systems are not like the first websites of 20 years ago—that is when I produced my first website—which were simply an electronic library.
Would the member rather have an algorithm or a one-to-one conversation?
I would rather that we indulged in heuristic learning, where the computer adds to the available ways in which we can learn of the needs of the person sitting at the computer, in addition to the interactions with human beings.
Computers will continue to be part of people’s lives in years to come. The worldwide web will develop and become even more important and its interactivity is the vital thing. Its ability to guide, to search and to respond to people is vital, so personalisation is important.
I will give members one little insight into how we may be making wrong assumptions about people’s relationships with technology. I worked in technology in the Bank of Scotland for 30 years. When we introduced our first cash dispensers in 1980—my brother had developed them for the Royal Bank of Scotland three years earlier, so I was behind him—we found that people would stand in the rain to queue for a cash dispenser rather than go into a bank branch. We did a survey and found that usage in Scotland was three times higher per head of population than in England, because people would rather deal with a machine than share intimate things in their lives with somebody behind a counter.
That is a narrow, specific example. It need not map to the subject that is before us, but we should not, by any means, discount the electronic world.
I will say a word about the red-amber-green system. I feel very disappointed because, in essence, I hear that we should divert resources from the red group, who need help the most, to the green group, who can be more adaptable, start online and get human interaction when they need it.
I am delighted to participate in this important debate.
16:36
It is never easy to follow Stewart Stevenson, but here we go.
The debate has been interesting; the Conservatives are in the rare position of agreeing with a Government motion, which says that
“the modernisation of Scotland’s career services is vital to economic recovery”.
How could we not agree with that? We also agree with Labour that the web-based system should be complementary to face-to-face careers advice and not a replacement for it.
My colleague Liz Smith highlighted the significant progress that could be made with more personalised careers guidance. She also mentions in her amendment—which I hope will gain support across the chamber—the critical need for early discussion of careers options in schools so that pupils can choose subjects that are appropriate to a career.
I am not a member of the Education and Culture Committee. However, following my intervention on the minister, I can only say that, if Unison has misunderstood the web-based approach, many people who gave evidence to the Education and Culture Committee share that misunderstanding. I would have had more respect for the minister had she acknowledged that there are concerns and said that the Government would address them. Instead, we heard evidence from the Labour Party and total denial from the Scottish National Party. That is not helpful. Liam McArthur made a thoughtful and measured speech along those lines.
Before being elected to Parliament, I had a career as an economics lecturer. Like Stewart Stevenson, I had no careers advice, but I was a single parent with two young children and chose lecturing so that I could spend the school holidays with them. It turned out to be an enjoyable and rewarding career.
I remember looking at a careers website as a student at the University of Dundee along with some friends from my class. It was obviously not as sophisticated as the systems that we have today. One question asked, “Do you like people?” We all said, “Well, yes, they’re okay, you know,” and the careers advice that we were given was that we should all be social workers. I certainly respect and admire the work that social workers do, but when we got back to the lecture theatre and asked the rest of the year whether they had taken the same careers advice, by coincidence, they had said that they liked people as well, so they had all been advised to become social workers, too. I make that point to highlight the need for a more personalised system to suit individual needs and talents. The 31,000 young people who are currently not in education, employment or training may also benefit hugely from face-to-face careers advice, rather than facing a computer screen.
I also support better careers advice because I saw many mature students come into further and higher education after years in low-paid jobs with no career progression as a result of their having had little or no careers advice and support at school. If our careers services are to move people towards employment, it is important that they be able to steer people towards the parts of the economy where there is a demand for jobs.
I welcome the skills academy at Nigg in the Highlands, and the Aberdeen model, both of which are long overdue but will, nonetheless, work to achieve a much better match of skills, industry and NEETs. Recent research into skills shortages in the energy sector highlighted the need for approximately 120,000 new recruits by 2022 if Aberdeen is to continue as a global energy hub.
The Unison briefing is helpful, and I note the point that it makes about information and advice. There is no shortage of information online, as Neil Bibby and other members have said, but that is quite different from a face-to-face discussion on careers advice.
The views of SDS staff cannot be ignored. If 93 per cent of the staff who offer the careers advice—the same would apply if it was 10 per cent, 20 per cent, 30 per cent or 50 per cent—disagree that the model will result in an enhanced service, the Government should say that it is listening to what those staff are saying rather than dismissing their views.
I congratulate Energy North on the work that it has done in bringing together businesses from throughout the Highlands and in working with the University of the Highlands and Islands, Highland Council, Jobcentre Plus, colleges and OPITO. The organisation has identified a requirement to match education and training to the needs of the energy industry, which is desperately needed, given the opportunities in oil, gas and renewables and the lack of good advice and career guidance. Energy North is also working with schools and colleges.
Iain Gray made a good point—which I have made before now—about female pupils and graduates, who need to be given the appropriate options and career advice. It is sad that, today, there are 15 fewer women working offshore in the North Sea than there were in 2007, and that only 5 per cent of offshore engineers are women. That industry offers great opportunities, so it is only right that women be given the advice, access and confidence to take advantage of them.
I want to use the debate to highlight careers that require more prominence and respect; I am referring mainly to the hospitality industry. The perception remains that it is an industry for students and part-time staff, but in recent years Scottish food, drink and hospitality have achieved worldwide success. Exports have risen, Scotland is a destination for tourists and visitors, and the sector employs 200,000 people and generates total spend that is close to £11 billion. While we in the chamber regularly welcome the jobs and economic benefits from the sector, we rarely take time to praise the professionalism and commitment of the staff who make that happen, given the contribution of tourism to our economy. I hope that careers services will not, in the future, be dismissive of the retail or hospitality sectors. There are careers there, just as there are in other sectors.
I would be grateful if the member would close.
I support the Labour amendment, and the Government’s strategy—up to a point. We will vote for the Government’s motion and live in hope that ministers will take on board the many reasonable and constructive points that have been made in the debate today.
16:43
At Jewel and Esk College along the road, there are 1,800 full-time students and just under 8,000 learners overall. I understand that there is just one member of SDS staff left at the college, who is there for one and a half days a week. There has been a huge reduction in the service in the past 12 months alone.
However, SDS is not only scaling back services in colleges; offices are closing down, and where they remain open the opening hours are reduced and the service has been moved into jobcentres. At first glance, that seems to be a good thing, but, when set against the changing practices of the Department for Work and Pensions and the reality of how jobcentres work, it is devastating. Many jobcentres operate on an appointment-only basis. I have spoken to countless young people who find going to the jobcentre incredibly intimidating, especially when the first thing they are faced with is a security guard asking them why they are there. I mentioned that because we cannot ignore the wider context of this debate and the wider context of SDS service revision.
I have heard numerous SNP members who are somehow bemused as to why Labour would oppose the RAG system—that is, the red, amber and green system. Jamie Hepburn said that it is designed to focus on those who are in need. Let me take a moment to explain to him and others why we hold our view. The Unison briefing notes that the vast majority of drop-ins at careers centres were diagnosed as needing one-to-one advice help. In some instances, 80 per cent had an identified need. The 2009 annual report for SDS boasts that 242,000 young people dropped in. If we apply Unison’s evidence that 80 per cent need help, what we get is a figure of 193,600 one-to-ones taking place in 2009-10. The SDS expects to deal with 35,000 amber clients, which is a huge reduction in service in only three years; in fact, that is less than a fifth of the number from three years ago. It looks to me as though tens of thousands of young people will simply slip through the net as a consequence of the changes.
Does Kezia Dugdale accept that any person who wants a face-to-face interview will get it?
I accept that, but I will come on to why that is misguided, in a second.
Face-to-face contact goes hand in hand with the website, which should not replace those services, but that is what is happening. Joan McAlpine said that the 35,000 people in the amber group are NEETs. I say gently to her that NEETs are, of course, people who are not in education, employment or training, so how can 35,000 school pupils be considered to be NEETs?
I think that it was quite clear from what I said that those young people were identified as potentially becoming part of that group. That is clearly what it was about and that is why they have been targeted. I think that Kezia Dugdale has made a rather specious point.
I am sure that Joan McAlpine will go to the Official Report to check that and, perhaps, rectify it, following the debate.
The minister talked about the pioneering service that my world of work represents. I read in papers ahead of the debate that many people praise the service, including the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development and the World Bank. I say to the minister that it is a shame that just 17 per cent of pupils know that it exists. The minister’s response to my colleague Drew Smith was particularly misleading, because it is necessary to register on the website in order to access a number of the tools. I know that because I had to do it in order to see what tools are available on the website. So, I am afraid that what the minister said is just simply wrong, because 83 per cent of Drew Smith’s constituents are missing out and 88 per cent of the kids in Edinburgh are missing out, which means that 14,975 pupils in Edinburgh alone are missing out as a consequence of the programme.
Mary Scanlon rightly pointed out that 93 per cent of staff whom SDS surveyed are unhappy with the new system. It was not unreasonable of her to expect the minister simply to listen to what the union is saying. We have a Tory spokesperson here asking the minister to listen to a trade union. Does the minister not understand that that is a simple ask? I hope that in her closing remarks she will reflect on that.
While we are on the topic of the Education and Culture Committee, I refer the minister to a point in the Official Report of the meeting of 27 November, which I am sure she read before she came to the chamber today. One of the committee’s members asked SDS how much the my world of work website cost, and SDS said that it would write to the committee with the details. I checked with the committee clerks this morning and found that SDS had told them that they would get an update response before this debate started. However, I am afraid that such a response has not arrived with any of the committee’s members, and I have not seen it, either. I think that it is unreasonable to be asked to debate a website without knowing simple things such as how much it cost the Government to produce. I hope that the minister will be able to provide some information on that at the end of the debate.
This is not, of course, the first time that I have complained to the minister about how difficult it is to extract information from SDS; it happened to me over apprenticeships and it happens to many of my colleagues every time they submit a freedom of information request. I asked the minister during a previous debate to address that issue, and I ask her again to look at the obfuscation and SDS’s deliberate attempts to stop members of the Opposition having simple facts ahead of debates.
Neil Bibby perhaps put it best when he said that giving young people one-to-one advice allows them a decent chance of getting a job. It is not too much to ask, but asking for it is exactly what the Government wants young people to do.
An SDS official told the Education and Culture Committee:
“If a young person finds that they are struggling, they will come forward. They have done so in the past ... and there is nothing to stop them doing so now.”—[Official Report, Education and Culture Committee, 27 November 2012; c 1646.]
How complacent. How arrogant. If we ask any teacher, youth worker or anybody else who has contact with young people, they will tell us that often the last thing a struggling young person will do is ask for help, and that serious interventions are needed to help them to move forward.
I believe that tomorrow marks the minister’s first anniversary in her job. There has been little mention of that today, with no cake and no party—certainly not one that Neil Findlay and I have been invited to. I wonder whether that is because, after the minister’s 12 months in the job and with £18 million spent, youth unemployment is higher than it was when she took up her post. Is that any surprise after what we have heard in this afternoon’s debate—arrogance and complacency from a Government that is out of touch and ill-informed? Today, more than 100,000 young people in Scotland are unemployed, but the minister says, “Everything’s fine. We’ve got a website for that.”
16:50
I very much enjoyed the speeches that were made this afternoon by members from across the chamber and across the political divide.
Let me start by making some remarks specifically to Ms Dugdale. All that I can say is, “Look at this face.” Every one of my 42 years—and more—shows. I am the Minister for Youth Employment, the mother of one child, I have 64,000 constituents, and I just do not have time to participate in playground politics. Never in my life as an MSP, a minister in the Government or a social worker have I walked around pretending that everything in life is all right. I wonder whether the Labour Party would spend as much time as it spends challenging the Government—something that I am quite comfortable with—in challenging our UK Government counterparts and arguing for more constitutional and economic powers for this Parliament, which would really enable us to tackle youth unemployment.
I am proud that, in my first year, I have managed to secure an additional £80 million that will help 23,000 young folk towards and into work, but I have no illusions: there is much, much more to do. I have a vision of a Scotland that will learn from and match the best in Europe—countries such as Germany, Austria and the Netherlands, which, despite the global economic recession, have youth unemployment rates of less than 10 per cent. That is what we should be working towards.
As I said, I enjoyed the speeches from members from across the chamber—even some of the more idiosyncratic contributions. I was pleased to hear that Mary Scanlon was advised to be a social worker. I am told that Alasdair Allan was once advised to be an undertaker. [Laughter.]
However, in all seriousness, we are fortunate in Scotland to have professionally trained and qualified careers information, advice and guidance staff. We know that, south of the border, they have removed the funding altogether and placed a statutory responsibility on schools. I want to maximise the impact that those professionals can have on young lives by fully utilising the skills that careers staff possess.
At the Education and Culture Committee, one of the witnesses commented that they did not expect careers services to change lives. I have to tell the Parliament that I and the Government are in the business of changing lives, and the expectation that we must all have of one another as politicians and of anybody who has contact with and influence over young lives—be they careers staff, teachers, social workers or youth workers—is that we are all in the business of raising hopes and aspirations.
What an opportunity exists for our talented, skilled and professional careers guidance staff to work more intensively with some of our most disadvantaged young people. Those staff have the opportunity to improve life chances and indeed to change lives. To me, the issue is one of equality of opportunity, and we need to provide more support to those young people in need.
Yes, we will retain a universal baseline service with which we will provide careers guidance to 130,000 young people. I repeat that we are not replacing face-to-face contact with a sole reliance on web-based facilities. We are working with young people; we will work with them differently and we will work with more young people and groups. We need to use technology to not replace people but extend our reach and modernise the way that they work.
It genuinely saddens me that we do not recognise that the need to provide the most vulnerable with more support is a way to prevent young people from becoming NEET statistics, which is the point that Joan McAlpine made this afternoon.
The red, amber, green methodology is a framework for identifying and managing risk. As I am a former social worker who has worked with risky people and risky situations day in, day out, I know that no risk management tool ever replaces professional judgment. In SDS, ultimately I expect good professional judgment and common sense to prevail. However, we need a framework to work within, to try to prevent young people from slipping through the net and to ensure that no one is left behind.
In his opening remarks, Neil Findlay spoke of the need for evidence and I was glad that Ms Dugdale spoke of the evidence from the OECD in 2004. We have had evidence from the European Commission and the World Bank, and indeed the UK Commission for Employment and Skills, which has commissioners who are prominent trade members. The UKCES supports our direction of travel, as does the Smith group, which Joan McAlpine mentioned.
Surely the most important evidence is from the people who are delivering the front-line services to the young people that need them.
Absolutely. I appreciate any evidence that people have the courtesy to bring me—I have not seen it in full. I assure Neil Findlay that if he brings the evidence to me, it will have my full, undivided attention.
Will the minister give way?
Not just now. [Interruption.]
Mr Smith—
I am running out of time. I want to be helpful to members and make progress.
Let me emphasise that we continue to have more than 40 contact centres. We have a slight increase in full-time equivalent staff in schools and we will use technology not to replace people but enhance their reach.
If people are concerned about registration, as I am, I suggest that we work together to increase registration the length and breadth of Scotland.
Will the minister give way?
I am just coming to the Conservative Party amendment. I will accept the Conservative Party amendment because, quite simply, it chimes with what young people are telling me. They want information and advice at an early stage, before they make their subject choices.
There are huge opportunities to integrate career management skills earlier, even as early as in primary school. We have huge opportunities to prepare our young people for the world of work better than ever before on the platform of curriculum for excellence.
Iain Gray touched on an important point about gender stereotyping and occupational segregation, which are indeed alive and well and with us today. The previous system of careers guidance did not help to tackle or change that. I do not claim to have a monopoly on wisdom or how we ensure equality of opportunity for all our young women, but we will work together. We have had the first ever women’s employment summit and we have introduced the careerwise initiative. Our focus—particularly in public sector reform—must be on tackling inequalities through early intervention and prevention.
I appreciated Liam McArthur’s more reasoned and balanced comments and I assure the chamber that we will take on constructive remarks. I will undertake to reply to every member who contributed to the debate to reassure them and respond to their particular issues.
In the time that I have left, I want to make some remarks from a personal perspective and make a pledge to Parliament. I personally, politically and professionally believe that modernisation of the careers service is the right thing to do and I—I hope—have the humility and common sense to recognise and acknowledge that all change is difficult. No one, including me, has a monopoly of wisdom on how best to navigate our way through that change.
I assure the Parliament that where there are issues of concern—and I have listened to them carefully this afternoon—I and this Government will indeed work in the interests of our children and young people to resolve any difficulties. I also make a pledge to this Parliament that I and this Government will have the tenacity to see that work through, because it is in the best interests of our young people that we equip them with the skills to cope with the many career changes that they are likely to make and not just to survive but to thrive in this world. Our economy and the future of our country depend on it.