Digital Scotland
The next item of business is the debate on motion S1M-295, in the name of Peter Peacock, on the digital Scotland initiative.
In light of this morning's experience, the times that have been agreed for the opening speeches are as follows: 15 minutes for the minister; 10 minutes for the Scottish National party spokesman; and eight minutes each for the Conservative and Liberal Democrat spokesmen. If members take interventions in the course of opening speeches, it will make the speeches longer. However, the time limits should be kept in mind, because we will not allow indefinite inflexibility, if I can put it that way.
It is a great pleasure to open today's debate on digital Scotland. We have the rest of the afternoon to debate the most profound and fundamental change impacting on our society. That change will bring about huge new social, educational and business opportunities, will fundamentally change how we as consumers obtain public and private services, will empower current and future generations by giving them the information better to exercise the life choices that they will face as they progress through life, and will alter the way in which much of our society operates.
There is no doubt that the development of digital and communications technologies is having and will continue to have the most profound effect and implications for us all. Technological developments that only a few years ago existed only in the minds of technologists, such as Bill Gates, today are commonplace and all-pervasive. We now have the capacity as a society to digitise all information, sound and visual images. More than that, we have the technology to communicate that digital information across the globe almost instantaneously and in volumes that hitherto were unimaginable. The combination of digital information with communications technology will be as powerful a force of transformation in our society as the invention of the wheel or the industrial revolution in their time.
Most of us who, in recent years, have begun to use e-mail and the internet are beginning to realise the potential that exists. The Parliament has begun—but only just—by providing 100 per cent e-mail access to members of the Parliament, which, I gather, is unique in the world. As we become more familiar with the technologies, we will be better able to see and to grasp the wider opportunities that will exist in the future, not just in this Parliament, but across the range of activities in our society.
As a society, we already use technologies to communicate faster and more widely with friends, family and those with whom we share interests, wherever they are across the globe. We use technology to access and research information and, increasingly, to select and purchase goods and services in a way that was unimaginable only a few years ago. In entertainment, computer games gross more today than the film industry. With the power of modern communications, computer games are no longer just for the individual: teams and alliances are being formed across the globe to collaborate and compete. Scotland is a world leader in such new forms of entertainment.
For those who disapprove of such frivolous pastimes, the next generation of computer game consoles, which is just coming on to the market, will offer internet access in a way that has never been seen before. That will open up the world of information and learning to a new, mass audience.
Increasingly, more and more of the services that we enjoy as citizens will be delivered to us electronically through our personal computers, games machines, digital televisions, mobile phones or a combination of those media, as technologies converge and take new forms.
The development of smart card technology adds a further dimension to those devices, allowing information and services to be personalised to meet particular individual needs. That will open up a new range of possibilities for the delivery of public services to help people to deal with the episodes of their lives.
To many people, the vision of a future in which digital communications technology is so pervasive and plays such a major role in the lives of all citizens is deeply challenging. Many people worry about the impact, but the lessons of history tell us that, as a society, we adapt and develop to exploit the technologies that come our way and to turn them to our advantage.
At this time, there is a need for Scotland to embrace with enthusiasm the opportunities and possibilities that arise from the digital communications technologies. Those technologies are fundamental to our ability as a country to compete with the rest of the world. If we in Scotland fail to embrace the emerging technologies and to adapt to them it can be guaranteed that others will grasp the opportunities and will adapt and that Scotland will fail by comparison.
Involving ourselves with the latest digital communications technologies is not an option—it
is a necessity. I hope that on that point, at least, we are united. I am sure that all parties in the chamber want to ensure that Scotland benefits from the technologies that are now available.
If we succeed in embracing with enthusiasm the opportunities that the digital and communications technologies offer, we will succeed economically and internationally and we will be able to offer all Scots better public services that are delivered more quickly, more efficiently and more cost- effectively than hitherto.
For many of us, the difficulty in dealing with this subject is not understanding the technology, but dealing with the limits of our own imagination of what is possible using the technologies that are available.
However, technology brings with it huge challenges. How, for example, can we ensure that all Scots, wherever they live and whatever their social circumstances, have access to the new technologies? How do we make the technologies work for inclusion? How do we ensure that public sector service provision mirrors best practice in the private sector, to ensure that we set a standard for expectations of the public sector in this sphere of activity?
How do we equip our teachers to adapt their teaching and learning support styles to utilise fully the potential of new technologies? How do we recruit the Scottish expertise in computer games design into the world of education, making sure that our learning materials are as interesting and exciting as our games? That might create new markets in edutainment, and would build on Scotland's international reputation for games and education.
How do we guarantee the maintenance of public archives and records when they are freely available on the internet? How do we catalogue, organise and make available public information in a coherent way, when it crosses departmental boundaries in central Government and between levels of government? How do we make this Parliament an example of all that is best in the use of technology, to help lead Scotland into the bold future that many of us envisage?
The Executive is now applying itself fully to rising to those challenges. It recognises that, for Scotland to play its full part and to compete in the modern world, we need to be at the forefront in our use of digital communications technology, and it is our clear intention to ensure that that is the case. We have a strong ambition to see a digital Scotland that embraces the technologies comfortably and with enthusiasm, which applies those technologies to every aspect of our society, which ensures that every part of our community participates and benefits, and where no part is excluded for reason of geographic or social isolation.
Such is the ambition of the Executive that we have taken a number of key actions at the most senior levels to ensure that matters progress. Digitising Scotland is up there along with drugs, social inclusion and rural development and has been identified as one of the four key cross-cutting issues that impact on every aspect of Scottish life and of government, to which the Executive wants to give particular attention. It therefore requires co-ordinated action across all areas of Government policy and administration.
The Cabinet has established a ministerial group comprising the Minister for Children and Education, the Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning, the Minister for Communities, the Minister for Rural Affairs, the Minister for Health and Community Care, the Minister for Finance and myself. It also involves key officials from across the Scottish Executive. It will report regularly to the full Scottish Cabinet on all the issues that I have mentioned and on all potential developments.
The Executive recognises, however, that it is vital that we draw expertise from across the Scottish community, outwith the ranks of Government, into our considerations. We have therefore established a digital Scotland task force.
I am delighted that Crawford Beveridge has agreed to chair the task force jointly with me and to act as a champion of the digital technologies in Scotland. The members of the task force represent a wide range of expertise from across Scotland and beyond. They include BT, Scottish Telecom, ntl, Microsoft, Cisco Systems, IBM, ICL, Apple, Oracle, the Internet Society, the Scottish Library and Information Council, the Scottish Council for Educational Technology, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, and representatives of this Parliament and of Napier University, among other university representatives.
What is the Scottish Executive's defined remit for membership of the task force? Will the membership remain the same for the duration of its activities?
From the outset, we tried to involve the people who we think are key players in the different sectors, whether in providing the infrastructure for the technologies or in providing some of the content for their use; whether it is those who write software; or whether it is those who provide information on the current situation. We are trying to make the task force as inclusive as we can—it is not a closed list. If there are more people who we feel can contribute to the continuing debate, we are more than willing to consider names. I am still trying to keep the task
force to a manageable size as it gets on with its work. If Linda Fabiani has any suggestions, I will be more than happy to hear from her.
Under the banner of the digital Scotland initiative, our aim is to co-ordinate digital technology and communications activities across government, and to review progress and adjust priorities if and when necessary. We wish to ensure best value for our public investments; to look out for gaps or weaknesses in infrastructure and ensure that they are filled; to communicate to the people of Scotland the importance of digital technologies; to help excite the people of Scotland about the opportunities of the digital age; and to help set out an ambition for the kind of Scotland we could live in: more decentralised, more competitive, better educated, better informed and much more inclusive.
We are currently engaging with the major telecoms providers to examine Scotland's infrastructure needs and to determine what requires to be done to ensure that our ambitions and objectives can be met and will not be frustrated.
We are giving more priority in the agenda to the need for top-quality content in the fields of public information and service provision where more traditional mechanisms are currently used. We have joined our colleagues in the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, who share our ambitions and our desire to see a fully co-ordinated public information service. We are exploring the scope for collaboration across the private and public sectors in the development of educational software, which will utilise the insights and skills of games producers. We are examining issues concerning intellectual property rights and copyright, the organisation of information, the potential licensing of information use, joint purchasing arrangements that might be necessary to secure the supply of information and joint protocols between information providers. I am pleased to say that I have asked the Scottish Library and Information Council to offer specific advice to me on the latter.
Much is happening already to digitise Government services and to gain the benefits of digital technologies for Scotland, but there is much still to do. Within Scotland, with the aid of the Scottish and UK Governments, there are myriad initiatives. Higher education is well advanced in utilising broadband technologies to communicate information and data sets between institutions across Scotland, and they are well connected to one another and to the wider world. Further education colleges have investment programmes to help them catch up and to use the higher education infrastructure in the process of widening their services and the availability of resources for their students. Schools, libraries, arts centres and museums are beginning to be connected to the internet and to one another. We want to see an increased use of broadband technology in such institutions, to ensure that there are no frustrations of capacity in the system to prevent us from doing what we want to do.
The Scottish university for industry will use the technology extensively in an innovative way, to allow people access to knowledge and to teaching and learning in ways that have not been seen before. Major projects in the knowledge economy and e-commerce, which were doubtless debated this morning, are also under way, promoting the ability of Scotland's small and medium enterprises—and all other enterprises—to participate more fully in e-commerce and to gain the benefits of so doing.
The modernising government initiative will use technology to transform the delivery of Government services across the board. There are initiatives in health, criminal justice, transport and the environment and so on. In social inclusion, there are bold new initiatives and experiments. We are trying to provide new ways of ensuring that people in the most deprived communities in Scotland have access to the same ranges of technology and opportunity as those in higher- income groups in our society. There is already evidence from the recent household studies in Scotland that the wealthiest have more access to the current technologies and to the new technologies as they emerge than those who are less well-off. We must address that systematically and, through the social inclusion programmes, we are doing so.
The private sector has its own momentum and, in parts, is moving forward apace, setting new standards and raising new expectations of how services will be delivered in future. Initiatives such as those in e-commerce demonstrate our desire to help those who are not yet participating to do so.
Digital technologies are all-pervasive: they affect all countries and all regions, and societies need to respond comprehensively. The Executive has recognised the need for Scotland to be at the forefront of the digital technology revolution. We have a clear ambition to get there and we want to excite Scotland about the possibilities. We have put in place the mechanisms within Government to ensure that we are co-ordinating our efforts to get best value for our investments and to stimulate private sector investment. We want to work in partnership with others to achieve those aims.
There needs to be a unity of purpose across all of Scottish life to ensure that we get to the forefront and that we stay there. There is great good will in the Scottish community to play its part. I hope that in this Parliament we will display our
collective commitment to a Scotland at the leading edge of a digital world. I commend the motion to the Parliament.
I move,
That the Parliament recognises the crucial importance to Scotland's economic and social well-being of embracing and making full use of new developments in digital information and communications technology; believes that Scotland must seize the opportunities offered to gain competitive economic advantage, enhance learning opportunities for all, open up information resources to every citizen, and offer modern and efficient public services; believes that every community in Scotland must have high quality access to digital technology and information in the future no matter where they live; and welcomes the creation by the Executive of the Ministerial Committee on Digital Scotland and the Digital Scotland Task Force to create a partnership which will help develop a shared analysis of the challenges and champion the opportunities for Scotland arising from developments in information and communications technology, co-ordinate action and help to create conditions where Scotland can realise the benefits of working at the leading edge of application of those technological developments.
I note that the minister did not refer to the SNP amendment in his speech, but I hope that he and the Executive will accept it in the spirit in which it is intended. This debate is about a vision for Scotland's future, which is why the SNP welcome it. However, we must insist on our amendment, as we cannot have a vision that is full of good words alone. It is important that we are told how we are to achieve that vision, and it would be in line with the aim of taking Scotland forward if the Executive were to accept our amendment.
I want to talk about the vision that we have for Scotland, which Peter Peacock also talked about. It is a vision for the 21st century, which will be the knowledge century. We want to build a knowledge society for Scotland that will empower everyone within it. We want to build a knowledge economy that will empower our industries and businesses, as we discussed in the debate on modernising the Scottish economy. We want to build a knowledge nation, because Scotland fulfils all the criteria for such a nation: we are the right size geographically, we have the right educational background and, increasingly, we have the necessary technological infrastructure to become such a nation.
The Scottish National party's education spokesperson said that the national grid for learning was a gimmick and an idea whose time had not yet come. Is it still the party's policy to scrap the national grid for learning?
I will put that into perspective. I was about to mention the plethora of initiatives, of which the national grid for learning is one. Peter
Peacock spoke about those initiatives; a good eight minutes of his speech was taken up with them. It is not the initiatives per se that bother us, but the lack of integration and coherence. It is all very well to have a national grid for learning, so long as it fits in to a coherent, co-ordinated national information strategy. I hope that that answers Maureen Macmillan's question.
I had planned to list the plethora of initiatives, but Peter Peacock did that so I will not waste time by doing it again. In a previous speech in the chamber, I referred to the fact that, as a librarian, I should be happy about those initiatives. However, the profession is concerned that £144 million has been committed to them so far. On a good estimate, we could probably do the whole thing for a third of that cost.
As Peter Peacock said, we must also consider content and digitisation. We have not looked at those areas yet. Government money must be put into initiatives in a co-ordinated, coherent and integrated fashion, but first we must have a strategy. I attended a meeting last week at which one of the librarians who was present said that no one had invested so much money in libraries and information, over such a short period of time, since Andrew Carnegie. I remind members that the Carnegie United Kingdom Trust set criteria and standards to ensure that the public library service that it funded became exactly that—a public library service that was free, with equal access for all. That is what today's debate and our amendment are about.
The big but behind all those initiatives is that we must have integration and coherence and we must set national standards. I will quote from the Scottish Library and Information Council's 1999 publication "Enabling Seamless Access".
"Yet without co-ordination, the continued growth of separate networks may in the long-term prevent the development of ‘seamless access' to information and knowledge."
That is what we must guard against.
I will make some international comparisons. I said that Scotland is the right size to become a knowledge nation. Other countries are going down that road and have been doing so throughout the 1990s. For example, Denmark has the information society for all initiative, which I am sure that Peter Peacock knows about. It also has a Ministry of Research and Information Technology, with a division for IT and society. That is what Scotland must aim for.
Ireland has the Information Society Commission, which, in its second annual report this year, talked about the fact that we have to look at awareness, infrastructure, learning, enterprise, legal issues, Government services, social inclusion and priority
areas of focus. That is what we are talking about. I know that that is what Peter Peacock also talked about, but those countries are using action plans to produce the required coherence and strategy to ensure that all the initiatives work towards one aim: producing an information society.
We should also look at Finland, which I know the minister recently visited. Finland realised in the early 1990s how important being an information society would be to its future. Three per cent of the annual gross domestic product was channelled into establishing Finland as an information society. They also ensured that they had an action plan, a national information strategy, which means that the money that was put in produced results. One in five people in Finland regularly accesses e-mail, one in three regularly uses the internet and every second person has a mobile phone. We might dread the mobile telephone, but the technology is developing to allow us to access the information society with mobile telephones. Finland has done it, and we must do it too.
We must not examine only other countries. We must also look at Scotland within Europe. Last year, the European Union produced a report that said that a piecemeal and sporadic approach to information society initiatives will not remove the obstacles that have been identified. The Commission considers that decisive and concerted action is needed. That shows how seriously the EU takes building the information society. I hope that we in Scotland will take it that seriously.
The European Commission also recommended that by June 1999 member states should submit comprehensive national strategies. Did we submit a comprehensive national strategy by June 1999? I am not aware, even through my professional background, that we did. This will be on the agenda for the meeting of the European Council in December. Will we have to put up our hands and admit that Scotland does not have a national action plan?
I am short of time and my colleagues will cover infrastructure, content, access to information and the skills that are necessary for us to become an information society, but I would like to conclude by stressing urgency. Urgency is behind what goes on in the countries I have been talking about. Those countries have been working on this since the early 1990s. Most of them have had national action plans in place since the mid-1990s. We are about to enter the knowledge century and we have no national action plan. The SNP amendment asks for that to ensure that we produce more than nice, warm, woolly words.
The SNP cannot endorse the motion as it stands because it does not provide the clearly defined agenda that we need to ensure Scotland's place at the forefront of the knowledge century that we are about to enter. If the Government does not accept our amendment, then it will have failed to take cognizance of the clearly stated views of the professionals that are out there.
The minister talked about those whom he has involved in the task force. I am pleased to see that he has recommended that suggestions be made as to who that task force should include, but I must point out that the task force is dominated by the telecommunications industry, which comprises 45 per cent of it. The task force is about producing a national strategy, not about looking only at the telecommunications infrastructure. The task force must move beyond that; it must make the vision a reality. If that does not happen, we will be letting Scotland and its people down.
Perhaps the minister should have attended the Information for Scotland seminar that was held last week at the University of Edinburgh. The leading lights in this field were assembled in one room. Had the minister attended he would have heard the message loud and clear that we need a national information strategy and we need it now. If he had attended the meeting, he would also have found the task force that he needs to produce the strategy—a task force that could produce the strategy in time for us to enter the 21st century.
I commend the amendment to all members and hope that they will view it in the light in which it is intended to be viewed.
I move amendment S1M-295.1, to delete from "help develop" to end and insert:
"produce an Integrated Information Strategy for Scotland which aims to influence the global development of the information society, ensures the development of an information society at national level and supports regional and local information society development in Scotland, which ensures the implementation of the strategy in and across every sphere and sector of Scottish society, and which will produce a National Action Plan in line with the European Commission's Information Society Action Plan that addresses the priority areas for action and has a clear timetable for achievement and progress."
I apologise to Fiona McLeod, on behalf of whichever member was inconsiderate enough to leave their new technology switched on before they left the building.
We must teach people how to control their technology, not have it the other way round.
I welcome today's debate. I am grateful for the opportunity to spend some time on it. That has been a little unusual in the chamber of late. I wish
that we could have debated this issue earlier, as it is one of the building blocks of the future and it is a building block for the future of our economy.
I turn to the motion that was lodged by the Executive. The Conservative party agrees readily with much of its content, although I want to comment on two phrases: "that every community in Scotland must have high quality access" and "no matter where they live". Those phrases alert us to the issue of how we are to establish the infrastructure requirements so that those fine statements can be validated. They raise issues of funding and partnership working. I wish that the minister could have been a bit more positive about where he was going, as we come late to this issue, and I sympathise with some of the comments that Fiona McLeod made.
The minister came up with some interesting comments. He has invented a new word— edutainment. I take it from that that he considers that the best learning format is the computer game. I do not knock his comments, as there is an awareness of that, certainly, among the younger part of our community, and perhaps we should get others involved. I also welcome the fact that he has moved this issue into the Executive's top four priority issues. I hope that the First Minister and the rest of the Executive know that. We spend a lot of time in this Parliament trying to find out what our priorities are. Now, thanks to Peter Peacock, we have learned a bit more about that today.
A ministerial group has been established. Fine. However, a question arose from what the minister said about filling the gaps in the infrastructure. He did not say how, or with what, that would be done. There are certain issues that the Executive has just not addressed yet. Conservative members— and, I think, all members—agree that access to the opportunity to get involved with the digital world is something that we all want. We feel that the digital initiative must touch every part of Scottish life: health, education, training, leisure and administration. Most important, it should enter the workplace, and all of that must be done in the most affordable manner.
As we all agree, there are tremendous opportunities for Scotland in using the new technology to progress on all fronts. We are aware of the advances that have already been made in various sectors through the use of information and communications technology. For example, in academia there is now a second academic net— JANET II—and there are other initiatives that could be mentioned. The health service made great attempts to link up doctors' surgeries with consultants and hospital appointment facilities. My background is in pharmacy, and we have gone further in that field. We harnessed information technology to run purchasing and to access patient records and doctors' surgeries. I was pleased that the minister commented on the use of smart card technology. That idea that has been around for a long time in the health service, but, unfortunately, it has not yet received the Executive's support.
In education, there is a need to develop young people's skills from an early age, in a manner that allows for future development. It is important that compatibility exists between the systems on which the children are taught and the equipment that they will have to use in later life, in further education and at work. The present situation must be changed, as it presents another hurdle for them to jump as they go on in life.
Much is talked about in training, but we believe that there is more to it than just sending the capable to university. It is vital that we use this technology to take training into the community and the workplace. An example of that would be to move away from correspondence courses, which were used in the past in the hotel industry, to interactive IT training that would be undertaken at a time when the business could afford it. Many of our small businesses in Scotland cannot afford the time and do not have the opportunity to send people miles away for two days, to Inverness and so on. That is just not on, and we must do something about it.
One of the things that I have picked up from my visits to the further education colleges is that they are desperately keen to get involved in training. However, the one thing they all tell me is that they lack finance and support from the centre. I ask the minister to consider that.
This morning, we talked about a number of companies that use e-business for procurement. Perhaps the minister can tell us just how much Government, national and local, actually purchases in that cost-effective way.
Economic development is a major driver for the digital world. In many cases, economic competitiveness depends on the use of technology, which depends on the computer literacy of our work force, particularly the management in our small and medium businesses. If we are to encourage them to join in the revolution, access to impartial advice must be available. The advice must offer appraisal of a company's needs as well as advice on equipment and software purchases. If ever there was a focus for Scottish Enterprise, this is it. There must also be marketing support on how to use the net to access the outside world.
Mr Davidson has mentioned providing advice to companies. Would not it be better, in the spirit of the amendment, to have a national action plan that included strategies and
criteria so that advice would always be given within national criteria and would be readily acceptable?
One cannot run out a prescribed programme in that way. One must go into each company, and that is why we need to use the enterprise network. The principle is good, but the suggested method for rolling out is not. Advice must be deliverable locally in a way that is suited to the particular operation. One cannot prescribe from a distance. That is why I talked about impartial advice rather than formal advice.
Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP)
rose—
I have to move on because time is short this afternoon.
E-commerce raises several issues that must be addressed centrally: security of information; privacy; intellectual property, which the minister has already mentioned; and changes in contract law to give e-transactions some legal status, albeit under strict protocols. I think that that is what Peter Peacock was hinting at, but he should come back to the chamber with definite proposals. There is a huge area of legal complexities that we must grasp if we are to make e-commerce work safely.
All those measures must be underpinned by adequate consumer protection. Like everyone else, I am bombarded with letters asking when there will be an initiative to stop spam deluging the system. I will leave that question for the minister to consider in his spare time.
The Minister for Communities talked about a digital divide in terms of social inclusion, but that divide also exists in different areas of Scottish business. That is something else that we must recognise and deal with.
As we approach the digital future, we must remember that three months of our time is the equivalent of a year in the web world. The rate of development is very speedy indeed and Government must get its thinking up to that kind of speed if it is to roll out any kind of programme.
We must also consider obsolescence in equipment and software, which poses investment problems. We have mentioned lead times, but who is going to put it all together? There is a digital task force and I welcome Crawford Beveridge's input to it, but I am devastated that there is nobody on that task force to represent the ultimate user in the business arena. That is a bad omission so early on in the project and it sends out totally wrong signals.
I have mentioned the cost of provision. Many people are happy to bid to supply the major centres of population, but how will the Government ensure that the roll-out of the infrastructure takes it to all parts of Scotland? We have seen that the roll-out of the latest telephone technology has not included places such as the north-east of Scotland.
With e-mail, we can work anywhere. It offers a huge opportunity for employment in our many remote areas. It is also important to consider ways of levelling the cost of access and of on-going provision. I assume that Peter Peacock and Henry McLeish will be involved in that sensitive negotiation. It must be carried out, because, in this modern world, one cannot expect the private sector to pour money into a project from which there will be no return. There must be creative partnerships to ensure that the minister's fine words about everybody getting hold of digital technology can be rolled out.
We need a guarantee from the Executive that, in all processes, all task forces and all initiatives, there will be a totally inclusive approach to seeking access to digital connection for all parts of Scotland. The Conservatives recognise the opportunities that are offered to our economy, education and training, but we also recognise the social and democratic benefits of a well-planned digital future for Scotland that incorporates real partnership between the public and private sectors.
I had a pal who, in current parlance, was digitally challenged. He had one finger missing on his left hand. Another pal who was mathematically challenged designed a digital solution. He counted on his fingers. I am also digitally challenged. I used to be a teacher; I like books. It is a very special day: on this day in 1477 Caxton published the first dated book on his printing press. So it is with some worry that I look at myself. I feel like an armed Mexican bandit. Look. I have a mobile phone here, a calculator there, a pager in my pocket, a personal organiser—and boy, do I need it. My key ring has a wee thing for opening doors and another thing that gets me into my laptop. I am struggling—
Please do not take out your pacemaker.
No, it is too deeply embedded. You think that this is a joke, Michael?
I find it uncomfortable, but if we do not move with the times we are in serious economic and social jeopardy. Speaking for the Scottish Liberal Democrats, I therefore warmly welcome the minister's remarks and endorse the motion in the name of Peter Peacock. I too welcome the fact that someone as eminent in the world of enterprise as Crawford Beveridge has taken on the joint
chairmanship of the group.
It is appropriate that we debated the modernisation of the Scottish economy this morning because the way that we respond to the challenge of information technology is the key to the modernisation of our economy, governance and education system. Peter talked about our e- mail addresses in Parliament and the importance of digitisation in local government. It matters in a democratic sense. It matters to the economy. I was delighted to hear him talking about the all- embracing nature of the digital revolution and I welcome the priority he gives to rural and deprived areas. As Mr Davidson said, we can work anywhere, we can access the whole world.
We need to create additional educational and training opportunities; lifelong learning must become real and the digital revolution will help in that. I am delighted to see that Scotland is embracing the tremendous scale of this revolution. We have already invested in schools and intend to establish the national grid for learning, with every pupil having an e-mail address. Future students of all ages will benefit from being able to study in schools and colleges, in their homes, in village halls and in cybercafés.
I read of a housing scheme in Aberdeen with empty houses so the local authority put in a place where people could access the net. That is opening up people's lives. I do not wish to be churlish, but it is a pity that the SNP spoke about abolishing the national grid for learning. I know they have an alternative in mind, but it is the kind of soundbite people get hit with, which is a pity. I know that it is not the way they really think.
Interestingly, the Tories' manifesto, which I read on the internet, did not mention the words computer or technology. From a party that tells us about small business and, as David Davidson mentioned, the importance of businesses taking on new technology, one would have expected the words to appear somewhere.
There was an assumption, although it was not a specific item in the manifesto, that technology was part of our industry policy and has been for many years.
I am happy to accept that. All the same, it is a pity that there was no mention in the manifesto. This morning, Nick Johnston said that computers do not create jobs. I know what he meant, but it was a naive thing to say.
Under digital Scotland initiatives, community facilities all over Scotland will become wired to the internet in conjunction with BT and the other companies that Mr Peacock referred to. The voluntary sector and local industries will be wired up, opening up new opportunities for individuals, the voluntary sector and community organisations.
We have to be optimistic. I am glad to see, for example, that Highlands and Islands Enterprise has an e-commerce adviser for small businesses, and that Scottish Borders Enterprise is forming an e-commerce strategy and is backing small companies all over the Borders. Heriot-Watt University is establishing a broadband link to the heart of the Borders. Our tourist industry is adopting Project Ossian to facilitate booking and ordering through the internet. A small group called Agrit is drawing together information for farmers, which will allow farmers to engage in direct marketing. With those developments, the signs are hopeful.
Alasdair Morrison said the other day that we want to encourage rural businesses to jump on to the e-commerce express. As Fiona McLeod suggested, it had better be an express. It must be quick. We discussed the Waverley line in the Borders last week. I do not expect the e- commerce express to be an express in those terms, but I hope that we will have a virtual railway line all over Scotland in the digital revolution. Mr Peacock is on the right track for the digital revolution. I hope that e-commerce is an express. We support the motion.
I will now open the debate to members. Speeches should last approximately four minutes.
The minister's statement can only be warmly welcomed because, to use the current jargon, a step-change is going on in the development of digital technologies. The Scottish Executive is to be congratulated on the fact that it understands so clearly the opportunities that are offered, and the challenges that are presented, by the digital revolution. The Executive understands the essential role of Government to lead, explain and co-ordinate, so that the essential communications infrastructure can be developed and put in place, companies can develop e-business, education and training can be delivered in new ways, and both public and private services can be delivered electronically.
It does not surprise me that Peter Peacock is cochairing the digital Scotland task force. I was in Inverness recently, with the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. I was struck by the extent to which people and organisations in the Highlands, including local authorities, enterprise companies and education establishments, are using the new communication and information technologies to overcome geographic remoteness. The Highlands are clearly at home with the new technologies and benefiting from the exploitation of them—but all Scotland can benefit.
The only constant now is change. The rate of change for the new digital technologies is, as has been said, extremely rapid. Part of the role of Government is to help Scotland grow with that change and build on it positively. Initiatives such as digital Scotland will undoubtedly help to do that, as will the current expansion of education for all ages and at all levels, whether it be giving children more access to pre-school care and education, as was announced yesterday, or ensuring that employees get the continuing training that they require, which the university for industry will address.
Now and in the next century, the societies that invest in the intellectual capital of their citizens and co-ordinate and support the necessary infrastructure—particularly communications—and Governments that have the vision and leadership to exploit the digital revolution, will be best placed to succeed in the digital world. This revolution is with us now and, as has been said, participation is not optional. The consequences for societies round the globe will be every bit as large as those of the previous division between industrialised and non-industrialised societies. I have no doubt that Scotland has the people and the abilities to compete with the best in the new digital world and that initiatives such as digital Scotland will help.
Yesterday, IBM held a seminar on e- government. It graphically described how many of the states in the United States are increasingly delivering services to their citizens across the web. The possibilities are awesome. There is the opportunity to eliminate expensive and time- consuming manual paper systems. Some states have reduced their costs by two thirds. The provision of electronic government services can be made self-financing. Think of the opportunities for the redeployment of resources away from manual paper-based systems—the filling out of endless forms at various stages—and into essential services, such as community care, which will always be heavily people intensive.
Government must move into providing services electronically in a society in which we will increasingly buy goods and services over the web, communicate electronically and learn electronically. In that society, taking time off work to go in person to an office, which is open 9 to 5, Monday to Friday, to fill out paper forms, will not be acceptable.
The modernisation of government is essential. That challenge is being met by the modernising government agenda and through digital Scotland. In this Parliament, we have an opportunity to be an examplar for the new digital society. Members all have laptops and access to the parliamentary network. It is generally known that the more people are exposed to information technology, the more they use it and develop their skills.
One of the main problems that many members have with the parliamentary systems and technology is that there is not enough of it and it is not sophisticated enough. I think that that augurs well for the direction in which the use of technology in the Parliament will develop over the next few years. A legislature that is at home with technology is better placed to succeed in meeting the challenges of all aspects of a digital society.
I am sorry that we have got such a small audience for our debate this afternoon. I am reassured by the thought that some of our colleagues may be here in a virtual sense.
I think that Ian Jenkins was exaggerating somewhat when he said that this issue is not his scene, but looking round him as he spoke on his own, it was clearly more his scene than that of any of his Liberal Democrat colleagues.
I will talk about the importance of electronic commerce and IT for rural Scotland, which has not been addressed too much in the debate so far.
Hitherto, rural Scotland has suffered the problems of distance in much that it does. Cost has militated against economic developments that might have taken place in rural Scotland. With e- commerce, we can perhaps begin to level the playing field—if I can use a phrase that is much loved by the National Farmers Union of Scotland these days. Both distance and the various costs associated with distance can be avoided—I will skip over the opportunity to make yet another speech on petrol prices.
The development of e-commerce and IT means that the costs that go with distance can be avoided in almost all cases, except in the final delivery of goods. In many cases, in graphic design, developing websites and writing television scripts, the costs associated with remoteness almost disappear with e-commerce.
It is also true that costs in rural areas tend to be much lower because of lower overheads. It is an unfortunate reflection of some of the facts of rural life that wage rates and house prices tend to be much lower there.
All this development in the rural economy is dependent on the infrastructure's being in place. In Dumfries and Galloway, for example, some of our telephone exchanges are not yet digitised, although it is intended finally to get round to that by the end of this year. We need to ensure that there is continuous development of rural networks as technology moves forward. Putting the
infrastructure in place is not a one-off exercise. We know that the pace of technology is getting ever quicker, so the infrastructure that is put in place this year or this decade will not be the infrastructure that is suitable for the next decade or the one after that.
That is particularly true of the many initiatives that are under way in schools around Scotland. It is all right providing the money to put in one set of equipment or infrastructure, but we need to be aware that a high replacement cost goes with that. That replacement cost may show up in budgets much sooner than people are expecting.
We cannot treat as less important the provision of infrastructure in rural areas, or the rural economy will find itself excluded once more. We also need to examine how local calls are charged by British Telecommunications and, increasingly, other telephone providers. Obviously, that is a matter for the UK Government, but I hope that Scottish ministers will be able to make a contribution. Call charging is an area in which we suffer in comparison with competitor countries, especially the United States, where local call charges are often non-existent.
Hitherto we have lacked an information strategy, and that has led us to take a piecemeal approach to the development of much of our infrastructure. Local authorities, largely via their library services, are developing their own systems. We are developing many networks throughout the country—for tertiary education, the health service, the Scottish university for industry and the tourist boards—but how much compatibility will there be between those systems? Even in the Parliament, it is not yet possible for constituency staff to access our system. Because each network requires its own co-ordinating body, staff and overheads, we need to ask ourselves some questions about how efficiently systems are being introduced.
One of the first tasks of digital Scotland will be to audit the technological and digital infrastructure that we have. That is to be welcomed, but one would think that it could have been done a little earlier. This is a very important subject, and we need to get it right in Scotland. We also need to get it right fairly quickly, or as a nation we will be left behind. We cannot afford to lose out on this one.
I am pleased that this matter has been raised so early in the life of the Parliament. However, the motion that we are being asked to approve at the end of today's debate is one of the finer examples of civil- service-speak—I hope that the chaps at the front will forgive me for that comment. It pulls together many of the issues and promises partnership and enhanced opportunities, but ultimately it fails to describe what we should be working towards.
We will not get to the leading edge of the industries that have arisen from the new technologies simply by stating the objective. Rather, we will do it by carefully planning out the route. It is quite clear that the route will be defined by how we organise and exploit the mass of information that modern technology has the power to place at our fingertips.
That challenge will be met only if the people of Scotland have the basic skills and competencies, but we are told that approximately half of the men and women in the UK lack those basic skills. We can have no confidence that the position in Scotland is any better than that in the UK as a whole.
To date, much of the Executive's work appears to be focused not on core skills and competencies, but on the technology and physical access to it. Core skills and competencies are essential—fewer than 2,000 students in Scotland are studying mass communication. We need to increase student numbers in relevant fields and encourage adult returnees to further and higher education. The issue will be much debated following the outcome of the Cubie report.
The minister has urged us all to be excited about his latest initiative. I agree: CD-ROMs in Dundee are exciting and cybercafés in Wester Hailes and Barrhead are impressive, but not if people lack the skills and confidence to use the technology. We must ensure that the technology is available to all of our people. The School Library Association, for example, has stated that
"for the whole population of Scotland digital literacy skills should be fostered by introductory and SVQ linked courses" and it suggests that staff in all libraries should be adequately trained in information and communication technology. That means focusing on people, not technology.
The technology will be relevant to people only if it is applied in situations that are relevant to them: at home, in the work place and in the community. Many people have no interest in information and communication technology; it is something for big business and bureaucracies. That perception will be reinforced by the make-up of the minister's task force.
The minister said that he considered inclusiveness to be a key aspect of the task force membership, but where are the community voices or the working teacher? Who will speak for those who work with special needs clients? If the minister wants the initiative to connect with the people of Scotland, and not simply work as a route
into Government for special interests, he should look again at his task force recruitment, this time aiming at the consumer, not the technology provider.
Scotland has tremendous economic potential; everyone in this chamber recognises that. To realise that potential, Scotland needs to be an information society in terms of provision of knowledge and skills and of products and services. We already have a good base on which to build. I am pleased that my part of the country, East Kilbride, has a major stake in that base. Our technology park houses many small firms that have benefited from, and are assisting others to benefit from, European social fund and local authority initiatives. Gael Quality Software, last year's winner of Lanarkshire's best small business award, is an example of a success story. It has expanded from two founders to ownership of a factory that employs 40 people. That is a fine example of a co-ordination of training and enterprise that is surely the way forward.
I would like to inject a note of caution, though. East Kilbride also houses firms such as Motorola and JVC, both of which are well known for their success in technology. Unfortunately, both companies are suffering employee disputes. We know that there is employee unrest in some call centres. We must ensure that in our enthusiasm to welcome new technology industries, we do not allow a return to industrial revolution standards of employee rights.
While it is well meaning, the minister's plan shows a lack of strategy. My colleague, Fiona McLeod, has lodged an amendment that I encourage members to consider in detail. Approving the amendment would spell out clearly what this Parliament wants Scotland to be and I commend it for members' support.
Like Ian Jenkins, I have to admit that the technology that I am used to is chalk, books and perhaps an old word processor at the back of the classroom. I am not a whiz on the computer, as Rhoda Grant will confirm: she has to do most of my computer work for me. A year ago I did not know what ICT stands for; today, however, I found that I know an acronym that the minister does not. I have clearly tried to get up to speed.
I recognise the profound effect that the digital revolution is having on the economy. It is having a particularly great effect in the Highlands and Islands in terms of the economy and social inclusion. The most obvious sign of that is the increasing number of call centres, which are all over the region. Already, 1,800 jobs have been created; that is due to rise to 2,500. Those jobs were viewed with suspicion for the reasons Linda Fabiani touched on, but complex, high-tech financial centres are now opening. One opened recently in Nairn, at which there is good money— the work force is pleased with the level of wages. That will help to raise wages generally in the Highlands, which has a low-wage economy.
Not as obvious, but of longer-term importance, is the part that the digital revolution is playing in further and higher education in the Highlands and Islands. As Elaine Thomson said, the University of the Highlands and Islands is a partnership of colleges and research units that are linked to each other and to local learning centres through information and communication technology. The development of that network will bring about the creation of the Highlands and Islands learning grid, supporting voice, data and video, self-dialled and tariff free. It will not cost the student, across the UHI network, and it will mean that students can access courses from their own communities, from Yell in Shetland in the north, to Barra in the west and Campbeltown in the south.
Students will become part of the knowledge economy and their expertise and initiative, while remaining at home in their communities, can help sustain and regenerate those communities. This is a tremendous, innovative, exciting and unique project that has taken a great deal of hard work to bring together, but it will pay enormous dividends as it pulls in high-quality administration, research and development jobs in the Highlands.
If information and communication technology can link all parts of the Highlands and Islands, it can also sell the area in the global marketplace; the web can become our shop window. Already, Project Ossian has been selling the Highlands and Islands as a tourist destination. There is unlimited scope for all sorts of businesses to trade over the web with the rest of the world. The internet does not care whether someone lives in Amsterdam or Achiltibuie. If someone has something to sell or something to offer, they can do it over the internet.
Highlands and Islands Enterprise already has a team of IT advisers throughout the area and—as Elaine Thomson mentioned—a special development adviser in e-commerce was appointed recently. The adviser is overseeing a project with Highlands and Islands companies, to develop e-commerce services for small to medium enterprises.
There are already 13,000 employees in the knowledge, information and telecommunications sector in the Highlands and Islands Enterprise area, so we feel that we are at the forefront. However, we cannot afford to be complacent. As has already been said, we must keep our digital systems up to date and ensure that we have no
shooglie connections.
I met some students from Dingwall Academy this morning. They complained that their e-mail does not always work. Well, it has to work. If we are to have a national grid for learning, the connections have to be well wired in. I was talking to a computer teacher from Ullapool the other day and I—who have only just discovered ISDN—hear that we need something called megastream, which I gather means that data can be downloaded in a shorter time and therefore at less cost. Please can we have that sometime soon?
We need to make communities comfortable with computers. Many people cannot afford one or feel that they could not cope with one. I would like computers to be available for use in small communities in much the same way that the network of public telephones was set up more than 50 years ago, when only one or two people in a village had telephones at home. It would allow people in crofting communities—given the right, non-threatening kind of training—to start up e- commerce business in a small way.
I would like communities to be given help to create their own websites, to give out information about themselves, market tourism and sell produce. E-commerce will bring the Highlands and Islands into the 21st century. The young, who are already computer literate, will embrace new technology and use it to regenerate remote communities. I look forward to the era of the e- commerce crofter.
It is with some regret that I congratulate Mr Peacock on his motion. I hope that he did not draft it. My regret is that I like Mr Peacock.
This is an exciting subject; however, the motion is not only bland but rings with new Labour buzz- speak words: partnership, social well-being, championing and all such matters are in there. Modernise is not there—that must have been deleted from the dictionary today. However, the motion does not say anything.
Mr Peacock dealt with this exciting subject in the manner in which an accountant might deal with a North sea caravan rating order. It is all dullness. We have to have some excitement about this subject as it is about nothing less than changing the world. Connections between individuals will be, and are becoming, entirely different, because of the advent of digital technology and the information society and world.
A key issue is how to engage people in this. A range of people have stood up as if they were giving testaments at an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting to say that they cannot use computers and need help. The oldest member—the mother of the Parliament—cannot use computers. Neither can Mr Jenkins. Maureen Macmillan is trying to use them, and I see that another member cannot use them. We are all going to stand up like revivalists and ask for help.
In their houses, people have one piece of equipment that they can use and that can connect them to the world: a television set. Almost everybody here can switch on a television set— nobody is putting their hand up to say that they cannot. Digital television changes the world for everybody. With digital television operating effectively across Scotland, we can begin to access a range of different things: not just television programmes, but interactive television programmes.
I watched the Scotland v England game on Saturday on interactive television. It allowed me to watch the game from any angle. I have to tell members that it did not make the game any better.
It is a pity you could not score.
Unfortunately I could not. That would be fantasy television.
Because there is a much bigger opportunity to transmit—I am sorry Alasdair Morrison is not here—Gaelic and Welsh television channels, and television channels in every other language, can be made available. There is more: we can shop, use e-mail, play games—in fact, we can have a computer on our television set. Some years ago, there was speculation that the internet would be available on television, although people did not know how to bring the two together; that has now happened.
We have to find a way to bring people into the information age. The box in the corner of people's rooms is the way in which that can be done. At present, the charge for the basic digital television service on satellite is about £12 to £13 a month. That is less than having a computer or subscribing to certain internet services. We have to ensure that people have the maximum access to digital television.
The great tragedy of this debate is that the UK Government is considering the conclusions of the Davies report, which would make it more difficult to get access to digital television. The prospect of a digital levy—under which people would pay extra to subscribe to digital services—is lunacy. It puts back the time at which the whole television service can move to digital.
Last week, Duncan Hamilton asked Mr Galbraith about access to digital television in the Highlands and Islands. We want a dash to digital, which
would require Government help to fund it. The Government can help to fund that dash to digital, because it will receive at least £10 billion from the sale of analogue frequencies when digital takes over.
When developing its strategy, the Executive should think of ways in which it can put Scotland really—not just in yet another motion—at the cutting edge. It should encourage a quick switch- over to digital television and assist people to switch over. We can then open up the world from the corner of everybody's living room. The opportunity to do that exists.
While we are doing that, we can encourage the providers of other digital services, such as BT, to be more generous in their provision. In Northern Ireland, there was an overnight switch-over to digital. In some parts of Scotland, it is claimed that because of technological difficulties we have to live within 3 km of a digital exchange to have a digital line, and customers are being quoted up to £200,000 to install a digital telephone line.
There cannot be an abdication of responsibility. No number of task forces, even if chaired by people as amiable as Mr Peacock, will make any difference unless there is investment. In the 19th century, Governments knew that they had to invest to change and develop society. It is greatly to be regretted that, on the verge of the 21st century, that basic truth has been lost by new Labour, in particular, and sadly by the Liberals, too, and the partnership has no desire to invest.
The UK Government will receive £10 billion, a share of which will come to Scotland. Let us spend the money on the future. The future is digital television. If we do not spend that money, all these fine words will mean nothing.
Finally—I have anticipated you, Presiding Officer, and promise that this is my final point—I say that the amendment is profoundly necessary. The Executive has not demonstrated a desire for a national strategy and plan. I ask those who have open minds on the matter to support such a desire, so that the Government prepares itself in the way that other countries in Europe are preparing themselves, rather than in the quixotic manner of new Labour.
I have been fairly lenient about timings until now, but to accommodate everyone who wants to speak, it will be necessary for members to stick to four minutes from now on.
First, I want to restate my registered interest in BT Scotland. Secondly, I apologise for my late arrival.
Thank you for bearing with me, Presiding Officer. As I sat on the tarmac at Amsterdam airport in a snowstorm, I thought that if the Parliament really had achieved something by way of technology, I would have been able to beam my presence to the chamber.
I have to agree with Mike Russell—the motion is hardly zappy. However, the amendment falls into the same category. If we are going to produce such language, we will not engage—
Will the member give way?
No. Given that I am to be confined to four minutes, I cannot give way.
We are promoting language that underpins the view that technology is just for nerds on committees. That is not true—it is for everybody. Unless we get that message across, we will not change anything.
In the time that I have been here, I have heard people talking about structures; infrastructure is very important. All the work and research that has been done around the world shows that behavioural change is fundamental to the implementation of technology and the digital Scotland that the minister is pursuing. Unless we see that behavioural change being championed by the Executive, it will not happen. It is not just about bandwidth and software solutions; it is about change in small and medium businesses, schools and government. We need leadership in that change.
If the First Minister were here and—as some would wish—we cut him open, we would not find an Intel Pentium processor inside. I hope that we would find a commitment to driving technology forward, against what even I would call the forces of conservatism. Those forces are strong and we need commitment and leadership. It will fall to the minister to demonstrate that leadership in delivering a digital Scotland. Although there is an amendment, it is clear that there is cross-party support for taking forward technology in Scotland. Ultimately, the Executive must be absolutely committed to delivering a digital Scotland.
Every one of us can make the Parliament demonstrate that it is in the forefront of technology. Since we had our rather disappointing debate on allowances, that has not been the case. Rather than concentrating on how we could deliver new and innovative types of government and how we could best serve our constituents using new technology—freephone numbers and videoconferencing—we got bogged down in the old-fashioned concept of a fixed geographical office.
There is great potential for all of us—including those who say that they cannot use, or have not
used, such technology—to demonstrate that we can make a difference. If this is a cutting-edge Parliament, it will give a message to the whole country that we want to see a new, modern Scotland at the forefront of commercial priorities, with a diverse and rich culture in the new millennium.
We all agree that there has been no greater impact on contemporary society than the revolution in information technology. Of course, Scots have historically always been at the head of technological advancement, notably inventing the television and the telephone.
As Ian Jenkins said earlier, it is hard to imagine what life would be like for MSPs if we did not have a cellphone at the ready, a pager by our side, a researcher with e-mail, and a willing pair of hands to fax important bits of paper to us. Nowadays, it is possible to divert our home phones to our mobile phones, our mobile phones to our pagers. Before much longer we will be cutting out the middle man and our fax machines will be sending messages to our e-mails to be diverted back to our phones.
The microchip has enabled us to do all this and more, yet we have seen only the tip of the iceberg. Digitisation is all about the production of information that is recorded as a succession of discrete units rather than as a continuously varying analogue parameter. In essence, it means that things such as radio interference and the overlapping of broadcasting stations on the airways will soon be things of the past.
In the past few years, we have seen an unprecedented effort throughout the world to assemble frameworks that will enable countries to manage their transition into information-intensive societies. In the past five years or so, many countries have tried to put in place sets of policies that have two broad purposes in common: to ensure that full advantage is taken of the new opportunities, but, at the same time, to avoid the undesirable consequences that can arise from such developments.
Digital Scotland seeks to ensure that every citizen can access all the information and skills that he or she requires, regardless of geographical accidents of birth. A strategy must safeguard the needs and interests of Scotland's citizens as well as the interests of producers and administrators.
Only this morning, BT announced that one quarter of all its calls in the United Kingdom were on-line calls, and that it would have some difficulty coping if that number were to increase. We need to take an approach that assists business in overcoming such difficulties and that enables progress in technological development.
E-commerce, e-shopping, e-procurement and e- everything are becoming features of everyday life, and it is e-ssential for a successful Scottish economy to be geared up to compete in the global economy. As stated in Peter Peacock's motion:
"Scotland must seize the opportunities offered to gain competitive economic advantage."
I welcome the creation of the ministerial committee on digital Scotland. The task force will be needed to ensure that future developments are managed on a nationwide basis. In that regard, Government has a responsibility to business and to the community.
E-business is defined as an exchange of value over the internet. The projection is that it will grow by $3 trillion by 2002. We must therefore ensure that we have a telecommunications infrastructure of the highest specifications.
In popular music, my own field of interest, MP3 is set to revolutionise the way in which people consume popular music. With MP3, it is now possible to surf the net and download audio files of our favourite music in a matter of minutes, avoiding both the cost of buying a CD and the effort of going to a record shop, although I know that there are some legalities involved that we may have to address in the future.
While helping to create the conditions for business and commerce to take advantage of the super-highway, we must recognise the potential advantages of the digital age for our communities and for the prospect of a digital democracy.
Scottish Labour recognises that our full potential cannot be realised unless we devote our resources to the whole community. The knowledge economy can only be meaningful and successful if we link up schools, libraries and communities. The national grid for learning and the university for industry are doing that. Access to computers and the digital economy cannot be allowed to be a social exclusion issue. In Scotland, schemes exist to recycle refurbished computers for schools and as community resources. The Scottish School Board Association runs a scheme, known as the furbie scheme, that is to be commended for leading the way in the recycling of computers.
If we can give access to technology to all Scotland's population, we can move up to another level, by looking at digital democracy. We have taken the lead already in what we have done in the Scottish Parliament.
In summary, the difference between the motion and the amendment is perhaps a question of emphasis. I commend the contribution that Fiona McLeod has made to the debate. We are trying to
achieve a national information strategy, but we are doing it in a different way. We recognise that we cannot affect the global economy by ourselves, and that we have to start by challenging what we do in Scotland first.
I will now call George Reid, if he can be particularly brief.
I will aim to meet that need, Presiding Officer.
For me, the central issue of this debate is whether we Scots can achieve a knowledge economy unless we are all an active part of the information society. How is the Parliament doing in that respect? Apparently we are doing rather better than the other place. According to the latest IBM survey, an encouraging number of MSPs have shown a willingness to use IT. Furthermore, this is the only legislature in Europe where every member has a portable laptop with immediate access from remote locations to our parliamentary files and reports. Of course, that raises the interesting subject of where our parliamentary office actually is.
However, some of the old attitudes prevail. Moundbite 1: a week ago, when a senior member of the Parliament—who shall remain nameless, Presiding Officer—told me what a hard slog it was working through document after document day after day, I asked him why he did not get his parliamentary assistant to cut and paste the documents. He was not very enthusiastic and said that that would be messy. And then I twigged. He was not thinking electronically, but of his parliamentary assistant sitting cross-legged on the floor with a big scrapbook, a big pair of scissors and a pot of Gloy.
Moundbite 2: a busy MSP told me that she did not get her committee papers on time. She did in fact, but as attached files at the end of an e-mail.
Moundbite 3 is a suggestion for saving the Parliament several hundred thousand pounds a year. We should do as the Welsh do. There is no daily printing and circulation of papers. If members want papers, they can print them out themselves. If the Welsh can do that, why not us?
Moundbite 4 is what the Welsh call a chamberweb. A touch-screen computer is buried in each desk of the Welsh Assembly, giving members on-screen access. I do not like the system very much, although I can see the advantages for members who do not know what to say because no one has told them what to think. However, I suspect that that system is coming to the Parliament as well.
I will mention Moundbite 5, and then I will sit down. Around £50,000 is available now for committees to initiate their own forms of social partnership, which could present an opportunity for a perfect mix-and-match with IT. How? We could have an electronic consensus conference on the spreading of organic waste on agricultural land; a bulletin board on drugs in local communities; deliberative polling on section 28; or an internal portal for every convener on a bill when it goes to committee, allowing direct inputs on legislation line by line and section by section.
It is important for us in this chamber to make a start on such policies, because nobody owes Scotland a living and we as parliamentarians can give Scotland a lead.
And that, Presiding Officer, was three minutes on the button.
I will resist commenting on that. I call Brian Monteith to wind up for the Scottish Conservative party.
Presiding Officer, I will try to be brief, but it is not something for which I am particularly noted.
I should declare an interest. In my previous life, I worked for Crawford Beveridge and I congratulate him on his work on the digital project.
I echo the minister's words that this is a most profound and fundamental debate and it is a pity that at one point the number of members in the chamber sank to only 16. That was partly because the motion consisted of 157 rather bland words that were high on the platitude scale; and which would become 188 if we were to accept the SNP amendment. That has regrettably turned off some members.
What is profound in this discussion is not so much the proposal for shaping the digital future, but the acceptance that that future is already here. We should also accept the limitations of what Government strategies can do. I was attracted by George Reid's speech about how the digital present can impact on our work in Parliament. There is certainly no doubt that digital change leads to greater employment, not least to the employment of people to read our e-mails, now that there are so many e-mails that it is hard to read them all ourselves.
I must urge a sense of caution about what Government can do. It is probably going too far to believe that the Government can shape the global future. What it can do is have strategies that facilitate change. For example, the reason that we have such a great lead worldwide and are doing so well, not just in Scotland but in Britain, is due to
the action that the previous Conservative Government took in privatising British Telecom. Many members in the chamber would have opposed that in the past, but it allowed new entrants into the market and encouraged competition.
The Government plans to give kit—computers— to people who cannot afford it. However, what is particularly important is to drive down telephone costs. There is no point giving people computers to access the internet if they cannot afford the cost of the telephone connections. Competition is therefore an important aspect of the debate. In drawing up a strategy, we must ensure that competition drives down prices and increases access.
We must also be careful about picking and choosing the right way forward. The market has got us where we are now—entrepreneurs trying to fit services and products to the choices of millions of individual consumers worldwide. Had a national strategy chosen Betamax instead of VHS, would the growth of video have been so great in the United Kingdom, putting us at the top of the tables for the number of people who have video at home?
The strategy must consider the impact of change on institutions and on society and must ensure that we take full advantage of the opportunities. Putting computers into classrooms is a laudable idea, but we must ensure that we do not add new costs that detract from the resources in schools. A number of teachers have expressed to me, for example, their concern that the cost of toner cartridges is eating into their budgets. Everybody loves to use the computers and to print out their drawings, but the cost of the toner cartridges is becoming a great burden.
Access, of course, is important. Fiona McLeod quite rightly raised the question of access in libraries. Only now is "Encyclopaedia Britannica", a Scottish institution, moving to CD-ROM. Previously a team of salesmen sold it at a cost of around £3,000. "Encyclopaedia Britannica" is about to become available on the web. Access will be free, as the site will carry advertising. There are, therefore, ways of harnessing digital technology.
In closing, I argue that the Government has a role to play. We support the Scottish Executive's motion. It is bland and includes platitudes, which we welcome, but it will facilitate an open market, will remove barriers to competition and will ensure that the Government's operations take full advantage of digital technology. The move to consider the impact of digital Scotland on our society and its institutions will allow proposals to be brought forward that take account of that impact and harness the benefits. That is enough to be getting on with it. The SNP amendment goes a stage too far.
The SNP obviously has not been bland enough for Brian Monteith's taste, to allow him to support our amendment. This afternoon's debate has been good, although I am sorry that more people did not attend. A number of interesting contributions have been made, covering issues ranging from pacemakers to changing the world. Who says that modern-day politicians are cynics? I sincerely hope that the good ideas that have been expressed today will be taken on board by the Executive and given due consideration.
In summing up, I want to reflect on the concept of joined-up thinking, which is one of new Labour's favourite buzz phrases. I cannot comment on whether Peter Peacock's thinking is joined-up or not, but there is sometimes little sign of the co-ordinated approach that he talked about in his opening remarks. This morning we had a debate on the modernisation of the Scottish economy, led by the Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning and his team. A number of speakers in that debate highlighted the importance of e- commerce and the need for small and medium businesses to take up the opportunities of e- commerce.
Now we have this debate on digital Scotland, and a motion that talks about "competitive economic advantage". I would like the deputy minister to comment when he winds up on why these two debates have been so compartmentalised, when they should have gone hand in hand. Is there any good reason—I emphasise the word good—why responsibility for digital Scotland lies with the Deputy Minister for Children and Education?
One point among many of the deputy minister's opening remarks highlighted the lack of a co-ordinated approach across Government departments: when he said that we would now begin the infrastructure audit. The question which sprang to mind was why that audit was not carried out or at least started during the preparations for Y2K, which were the subject of a debate in this Parliament last week. It would have made sense to co-ordinate the two things.
One thing about this morning's debate on modernising the economy struck me when John Swinney said that Scotland often appears to be playing catch-up. If one comment could be lifted from this morning's debate and slotted into this debate, it is that one. Scotland, as Fiona McLeod outlined, is playing catch-up. Our European partners have been leaving us behind. The
European Union set a deadline of June 1999 for the production of a comprehensive national strategy for the information society by each member state. Scotland has not yet produced that, unless the deputy minister can tell us otherwise. Denmark produced such a strategy in 1996; France did so in 1998; Finland is operating a national strategy for 2000 to 2006. The list goes on, but Scotland as yet does not feature on it.
All of that underlines a real need for a national information strategy. As Fiona said, there is no reason—be it educational, geographical or technological—why Scotland should not be at the cutting edge of the information society. One of the problems that Fiona and others have mentioned this afternoon is the number of unrelated, unco-ordinated initiatives: the community learning network, the Scottish university for industry, the public library network, to name but a few. The minister referred to myriad initiatives. What is lacking is a strategy that draws all that together, and which ensures that the information society, as opposed to just a knowledge economy, develops nationally, regionally, locally and across sectors.
Peter Peacock said that he had ambitions for the information society. I applaud those ambitions, but we need more than fine words and ambitions. We need action, and that is what the motion that we are considering does not detail.
I want to outline some of the things that we could do if we had a national strategy in place. We could provide seamless public access to information; integrate Government initiatives in education, social inclusion, the economy and rural and urban regeneration; ensure that networks across public, private and voluntary sectors are fully co-ordinated, now and in the future; and ensure that the public have skills to participate in the information society.
I think that it was David Davidson who said that the important thing was to train people in one system that they could use throughout their lives. I tell David that that is not what is important. What is important is equipping our citizens with the skills that are necessary to access the information society. We could also ensure that all areas of our country—all our communities and all our citizens— have equal access to information technology.
There is a real danger in the current unequal access. I know that the Prime Minister thinks that the class war is over. We are in real danger, however, of opening up new divides between the haves and have-nots. The most important thing is that a national strategy would avoid the present duplication of resources and infrastructure. The Government has already spend £150 million on public information and communications technology initiatives, but there are no set criteria for the funding of those projects. That means that everyone is doing different things and, in many cases, reinventing the wheel. One example is the university for industry's setting up its own body to oversee its strategy, rather than be part of the national strategy.
I think that we have made the case for a national strategy. That is what our amendment seeks to do. It is not about being zappy, Brian; it is about taking action. What the Government motion— [Interruption.]—sorry, I meant David Mundell. It is not about being zappy, David. It is just that Brian Monteith is so zappy. [Laughter.] The amendment is about taking action. The Government's motion lacks a clear vision of where we go from here. I hope that, in the spirit of consensus, the minister will accept the SNP motion—unlike yesterday— and allow us to move forward on the basis of consensus.
Thank you for concluding under time. I hope that I can encourage the minister to do the same, as we are behind time. Do your best to conclude in less than 10 minutes, if you can.
I will try to be brief, but there are many points that I want to respond to. The debate has been productive, if comparatively short. As many said, it is a great pity that more members could not be present to hear about the fundamental changes that are taking place in our society. However, I welcome many of the comments that were made—those that were supportive of the Executive's plans and the constructive criticism and suggestions for how we could improve them. I want to try to pick up on as many points as possible.
I take the SNP amendment in the spirit in which it was intended, but I am afraid that I do not accept its detail. In many ways, it is more restrictive than the motion and, as Brian Monteith said, would put us in a sort of straitjacket, which might do us more harm than good.
I must make progress, Fiona.
I hope that the SNP will accept my assurance that all the points that it wants addressed fall within the ambit of the digital Scotland initiative— there is no impediment to the initiative covering those points. The initiative will also deal with many more issues and will have a wide agenda, so perhaps the SNP will withdraw the amendment and not divide the chamber.
The SNP amendment stresses the European Commission's approach to this issue. Earlier today, I was told that a web year lasts three months. The European report is now two years
old—which, going by that philosophy, makes it 10 years old. Things are moving on dramatically. The report set the agenda that we are already following and, given that context, it is with regret that I say that I do not think that I can accept the amendment.
I want to make it clear that I am extremely pleased to see the SNP reverse its policy on the national grid for learning. It is a significant development for the SNP to move back from its previous position of denying our children and schools the access to technology that the party now preaches. That is an important policy reversal, but I warmly welcome it—I welcome the fact that the SNP has embraced the national grid for learning and adopted Labour policies.
I am afraid that I cannot give way, Michael—you had plenty of time.
As to a lack of coherence in Government policy—
No, Nicola. I am under pressure from the Presiding Officer to move on and I have a lot to cover. Many people spoke in the debate and I am glad that the SNP has clarified its position today.
On a point of order. Is the minister entitled to mislead the chamber and then refuse to accept an intervention that would correct his mistake?
The minister is entitled to do all those things, but perhaps he will give way.
In no sense am I seeking to mislead. I am seeking to clarify—I am pleased that the SNP has reversed its policy.
As to the lack of coherence in the Government's strategy, the purpose of the digital Scotland initiative is to bring to the centre of government the coherence that people have criticised us for not having. A number of members talked about how we could co-ordinate expenditure. For example, Nicola Sturgeon asked how we could match up the university for industry investment with the public library investment, the investment in schools technology, the investment in health service technology and so on. The central purpose of the digital Scotland initiative is to ensure that the investment strategies are aligned.
Fiona McLeod spoke about wiring up libraries with broadband technology and on the differences that exist between the funding schemes—between Government funding and the new opportunities fund, which is in part paying for that work. I met representatives from the Scottish Library and
Information Council and from the new opportunities fund to discuss how we could align our expenditure to obtain maximum advantage from public investment. That is the essence of the digital Scotland initiative and that is what we intend to develop. The initiative is about action, not just plans; it is about creating things and ensuring that they happen.
I entirely agree with Fiona McLeod's point about the urgency with which Scotland must embrace what we are seeking to do. As she said, because of the differences between Scotland's use of the internet and its use in other countries, we are in danger of falling behind—or outwith—the modern means of communication. That is why we introduced this debate and why we established the digital Scotland initiative. We recognise the need not only to put Scotland in a leadership position, but to maintain that position.
I welcome David Davidson's support for the Government's strategy. In particular, I want to pick up his point about ensuring that all Scotland benefits from the new technologies. That involves real issues. In a developing Scotland, we cannot have two tiers of service because the cost of getting the infrastructure to people who live in the west Highlands, or the Borders, or Dumfries and Galloway is higher than it is for those who live in the city centres. Nor can we allow people— whether they live in the centre of Glasgow or the centre of Stornoway—to be equally disadvantaged because of their economic circumstances. Again, part of the purpose of digital Scotland is to fill the gaps in the existing infrastructure
As David Mundell said, there is a huge amount of infrastructure in Scotland. Most of, if not all, Scotland's cities are connected through broadband technology. The wiring, the cable and the fibres exist. Our big challenge is how to fill the gaps. How do we stimulate private investment— which is, rather than direct public investment, probably the way to progress—to ensure that every community in Scotland has access? The answer is partly to marry together the investment programmes we talked about earlier and partly to stimulate new private sector investment, as the private sector sees markets for its future products. The answer is also to liaise with the BBC about digital television. Like Mike Russell, I have an ambition to have the Highlands and Islands connected to digital television much earlier than is currently projected. If we align our investment strategies and recognise the potential of digital television and third-generation mobile technology, there may be opportunities to marry some of the investment strategies and ensure that we do not disadvantage rural Scotland.
David Davidson mentioned smart card technology. We could have a debate on that
technology alone. I agree with what Mike Russell said about the power of digital television, but we should also consider the impact of smart card technology on digital television. That technology could allow the personalisation of information and the use of the smart card as a verified source to access a whole series of Government services. An entirely new world of service technology could open up to us. We must explore that in detail over the coming months.
Ian Jenkins admitted that he had a pacemaker. He should know that some advice suggests that people should not carry their mobile phone next to their pacemaker in case it interrupts the frequency. He was very honest in admitting that he was not comfortable with the technology. In recognising that, he has bridged the gap. He also recognises the fact that many others in Scotland who do not feel comfortable with the technology none the less need to embrace it if our society is to move forward. Ian is right to say that we have to get on to an express train of action.
Elaine Thomson made a thoughtful speech about the fundamental impact that the technologies will have on our society. Like George Reid and others, she referred to the need for the Parliament to develop a range of services. That is a matter for the Parliament, rather than for the Executive, but as an MSP I recognise the points that those members made.
Alasdair Morgan quite properly referred to the impact that digital technology could have on rural areas. Digital technology has the potential to turn the economic equation of the past on its head. Suddenly, one can advantage rural areas because all the attributes that people are looking for in their use of digital technology—a stable work force, a good environment, low overheads and new lifestyles—exist in those rural areas. There is huge potential and we want it to be exploited.
Linda Fabiani talked about skills development, which is fundamental to how we develop the new technologies. We must ensure that we have a computer-literate society. That is why every pupil who comes through school will be fully literate in the use of the technologies. That is why we have invested £23 million in training teachers. That is why librarians are being trained and why new further education and university courses are being developed. Our computer-literate society will also have a people focus, ensuring that we talk not just about the technology, but about the services that we receive as a result of using that technology.
Maureen Macmillan described how fundamental technology has been to the development of the University of the Highlands and Islands. The dream of generations of Highlanders is being realised because they have embraced the use of technology in allowing those services to be delivered.
I think Mike Russell was right to say that we needed to engage with people in this process. All of us who believe in this must help to excite people throughout Scotland about the possibilities of the technology. Mike is also right to talk about digital television, which will bring the power and technology to a mass audience. Perhaps he was thinking about Mr Salmond's use of Ceefax—
That is old technology.
Exactly. However, we are coming full circle because the new technologies will have the simplicity of Ceefax and people will be able to use them to access a range of other services. I could go on—members have made many other points—but I must come to a conclusion.
Great opportunities for our economy and our society will follow from embracing digital communications technology. Distance, time and borders will cease to be barriers. Costs are falling and availability is increasing. Digital television is upon us and third-generation mobile telephones will be with us soon. The Executive has recognised that Scotland must be at the forefront of digital technology and that we must build on Scotland's natural advantages. The Government mechanisms have been put in place to realise our vision for Scotland and to ensure that our efforts are co-ordinated to get the best value for our investments and to stimulate private sector investment in infrastructure.
Digitising Scotland means modernising Scotland. Being digital will become like air and water—only noticed when it is absent, but essential to our life. There must be unity of purpose throughout Scottish life to ensure that we get to the forefront and that we stay there. The Executive's strategy will reap huge benefits for Scotland and I commend it to the Parliament.
That concludes the debate. I would like to take advantage of the full attendance to say that, now that the weather is colder, I have had a complaint about members bringing coats into the chamber. That should not be done. If there are not enough coat racks outside the chamber, I will ensure that that is corrected.