Plenary, 14 Apr 2005

Meeting date: Thursday, April 14, 2005

Official Report 754KB pdf

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First Minister's Question Time

We come a few seconds early to questions to the First Minister.

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Cabinet (Meetings)

To ask the First Minister what issues will be discussed at the next meeting of the Scottish Executive's Cabinet. (S2F-1567)

At the next meeting of the Scottish Cabinet, we will discuss issues of importance to the people of Scotland. At yesterday's meeting, we congratulated Charles Kennedy and his wife on the birth of their baby son.

I, too, take the opportunity to congratulate the Kennedy family.

I draw the First Minister's attention to the publication that I have in my hand. It looks a wee bit like the Labour manifesto, but it is not. It is another wee red book called "Labour's achievements". I advise the First Minister that it is written by two Scottish Labour MPs and that it is being distributed here in Scotland, yet all the facts and figures that it lists about health are English, not Scottish. Does the First Minister think that that is because his colleagues are ashamed of his record on waiting lists and waiting times?

I have never seen that publication and I do not know which MPs Nicola Sturgeon is referring to, but I am happy to talk about our record on health. Here in Scotland, the numbers of people who are waiting longer than six, nine and 12 months are lower than anywhere else in the United Kingdom. The median wait here is shorter than anywhere else in the United Kingdom and there are fewer people on waiting lists per head of population than there are anywhere else in the United Kingdom. However, those statistics are still not good enough for us. That is why we are driving forward to ensure that we have not only shorter waiting times for in-patients, but—as we now have—shorter waiting times for out-patients, too. We are making real progress in the health service and we are using contractors to help us to do that—something that the Scottish National Party would cancel, leaving thousands of people still on the waiting lists without their operations.

I find it funny that none of what the First Minister has just said finds its way into his Scottish colleagues' list of Labour's achievements. When the First Minister sees this publication, I wonder whether he will agree that it is a disgraceful attempt to pull the wool over the Scottish public's eyes. It tells them that waiting lists have gone down, although in Scotland they have gone up; it tells them that bed numbers are up, although in Scotland they are down; and it tells them that more patients are being treated, although in Scotland fewer patients are being treated. Will the First Minister demand that the publication be retracted and that his Labour colleagues—no matter how embarrassed they are about it—start telling the truth about his record on health?

It is interesting to note that Ms Sturgeon has stopped trying to find an obscure statistic to produce at First Minister's question time and is now trying to produce obscure publications instead. That publication is not produced by our office or by anybody in the Executive. The truth is that the Scottish health service has the lowest number of people waiting longest anywhere in the United Kingdom; the shortest waiting lists per head of population anywhere in the United Kingdom; and commitments to go even further on that for in-patients. We also have not only a commitment to but a delivery of shorter waiting times and shorter waiting lists for out-patients. Changes are taking place in the health service, not just because of the investment that is being made but because of the reforms that are taking place. Every one of those reforms is opposed by the SNP and, if the SNP were ever in charge, every one of them would be cancelled, leaving more people on the waiting lists waiting longer for their operations.

The First Minister talks about commitments. I turn to one fact about the English health service that Scottish patients will be interested to know. Yesterday, Labour promised that no patient will have to wait more than 18 weeks from seeing their general practitioner to having their operation—except if they live in Scotland. If the First Minister is doing so well, can he tell us why his target is 36 weeks—double the target in England? Is it just his incompetence that means that Scottish patients have to wait twice as long under Labour as patients in England do, or is there some other explanation?

The target to which Ms Sturgeon refers is for 2008. Our targets in Scotland are for 2007. In 2007 not only will we have a target but, because we have met every other target in the areas that we have identified, we will meet that target of 18 weeks for out-patients and 18 weeks for in-patients. We will then outline, in 2007, where we will go next.

We will also ensure that Scotland has not only a ban on smoking in public places, which will make a difference to Scottish health, and a health improvement strategy, which is making a difference in our primary schools and elsewhere, but many other measures, including improved school meals. We in Scotland are proud to be ahead of the rest of the United Kingdom and are determined to ensure that we have a better health service and better health for our population.

Does the First Minister, who in six years has failed to bring down waiting times, expect anyone to believe that he will halve those times in 12 months? Is it not the case that he has let down patients in Scotland and that, with targets that are double those south of the border, he is set to continue failing patients in Scotland? Why do Scottish patients have to pay as much for the NHS as English patients do but get so much less?

For the umpteenth week in a row, Ms Sturgeon insults the people in the Scottish health service who produce the statistics to which I referred. In Scotland, we have the lowest number of people on waiting lists per head of population anywhere in the United Kingdom. We have the lowest number of people waiting longer than six months for in-patient treatment. Because of the hard work of doctors, nurses and other professionals in the health service, out-patient waiting lists and waiting times are coming down. When we achieve those targets in 2007, we will go further in 2008 as our colleagues in England are doing, but we will assess the situation properly at that time.

At the same time, we will persist with a wider programme of health improvement for Scotland. The health service is getting the investment and the reforms that were opposed by the SNP and which are now making a difference. We will also have health improvement so that our primary school children, our smokers and many others across Scotland can see that a better way of looking after themselves helps the health service, the individual and the community.

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Prime Minister (Meetings)

To ask the First Minister when he will next meet the Prime Minister and what issues will be discussed. (S2F-1568)

I am not sure when I will next meet the Prime Minister, but I suspect that it will be sometime during April.

The First Minister will recall that, when he was in Dundee last month, the Prime Minister said that if people thought that the health service was better under the Conservatives than it is under Labour, they should vote for Michael Howard. Of course the national health service in Scotland was better under the Conservatives. There were more than 9,000 fewer patients on our waiting lists, 7,000 fewer out-patients had to wait more than a year for treatment, and 15,000 more in-patients were being treated compared with now. Is it not therefore the case that in health, as in so many other areas of our national life, Scotland is going backwards and not forwards under Labour and, of course, its Liberal Democrat allies?

I am not too sure where to start—there is so much information in front of me that I can use to compare the records of Mr McLetchie's party and our party and coalition on the health service in Scotland.

There was a 20 per cent increase in waiting lists under the Tories in Scotland during their final seven years; that is four times higher than the increase during the past seven years. Because we concentrate on waiting times and not waiting lists, we now have a waiting times target that people will have to wait only 18 weeks by 2007. Under the Tories, not just the target but the reality was 18 months. That is the difference between the policies on the health service of the Executive and the Tories.

We saw what the Tories did to the health service: they demoralised doctors and nurses, raised waiting times and made a mess of the health service. We must continue with our programme of investing in and reforming the health service in Scotland. We must also ensure that next month, we do not get a Conservative Government that will cut our health service, cut the resources that are available and ensure that our health service goes back to where it was in the 1990s.

I know what the Conservatives did for the health service in Scotland. They opened hospitals and established locally based services that the Executive is closing and running down the length and breadth of Scotland. If members do not believe me, they need only go to areas such as the Vale of Leven, Argyll and Clyde and the Highland NHS Board area to speak to campaigners the length and breadth of the country who are complaining about the centralisation of services that is taking place under the Scottish Executive. Today, in his answers to Nicola Sturgeon and me, the First Minister has compared Scotland with England. Does he not think that it is rather pathetic that the best that he can do is compare the inadequacies of the health service under a Labour Government in England with the inadequacies of the health service under the Executive in Scotland? Does that not betray a total poverty of ambition?

Let me go back to our record. Fifty-six hospitals have been built, modernised or upgraded, and 114 primary or community care facilities have been modernised. The number of dental staff is up. The number of medical and dental consultants is up. The number of medical and dental doctors who are being trained is up. The number of nursing and midwifery staff is up. Is Mr McLetchie hearing what we are hearing? Deaths of under-75s from coronary heart disease, cancer and strokes are down. Those are the improvements that have taken place in our health service. Of course it is not as good as we all want it to be—that is why we will make it even better. However, the worst thing that the people of Scotland could do in the next month is put Mr McLetchie's lot back in charge, because then the health service would go back to the 1990s, rather than forward into the 21st century.

The First Minister can bluster all he likes, but I am afraid that facts are chiels. Waiting lists and waiting times are up. The number of people in Scotland who lack a dentist is certainly up, up, up. It is ridiculous that the First Minister has the temerity to suggest that everything in the health garden is rosy. The truth of the matter is that the First Minister, like the Prime Minister, has lost the plot when it comes to health and that, by international standards, he is failing miserably to deliver the health care that people in Scotland need and deserve. Why is there no proper target and ambition to end the waiting lists that are Scotland's international disgrace and over which the First Minister presides?

Every party that is represented in the chamber demanded that the waiting list targets should go and that waiting time targets should come in, because that was the right way in which to improve the health service in Scotland.

As a result, the number of people who have been waiting for more than nine months is down. The number of people who have been waiting for more than six months is down. The number of out-patients who have been waiting for more than six months is down. Nobody is waiting for more than eight weeks for angiography or for more than 18 weeks for coronary revascularisation. Those are the improvements that have been made in our health service. Every one of them is opposed not only by the Conservatives—because of the cuts that they have promised and to which they will not admit, although there is a document that proves where they will fall here in Scotland—but by the SNP, which would cancel the contracts and leave thousands of people waiting for their operations. The SNP wants to choose the hospital that people should go to, instead of letting the patients choose so that they can get the operations that they need and deserve.

There is one urgent constituency question.

This morning, I gave the First Minister's office notice of the question that I wish to ask. It concerns the Ardtoe marine research institute, which is based in Ardnamurchan in west Lochaber. Just yesterday, the board of the Scottish Association for Marine Science announced that SAMS Ardtoe Ltd would be placed in liquidation. The liquidator arrived today. The staff learned of the decision yesterday.

There are few jobs involved, but they are essential to this remote rural part of Scotland. The workforce believes that it has a future and wishes to explore every possible option for survival, so that it can continue to provide its expertise, possibly to the university of the Highlands and Islands. This morning, the workforce instructed me that it wishes to send a delegation, led by me, to meet ministers in both the Environment and Rural Affairs Department and the Enterprise, Transport and Lifelong Learning Department in order to explore a future for Ardtoe. Can such a meeting take place as a matter of urgency?

The minister will be happy to meet Mr Ewing on that matter. Indeed, the ministerial team is well aware of the important skills that exist in that area and the importance in a rural part of Scotland of good skills and highly paid jobs not only to the individuals concerned but to the whole local community. However, it is important to discuss the matter further, and the minister will be happy to have such a meeting.

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Secretary of State for Scotland (Meetings)

To ask the First Minister when he will next meet the Secretary of State for Scotland and what issues he intends to discuss. (S2F-1575)

With apologies in advance to my Liberal Democrat colleagues, I met the Secretary of State for Scotland this morning to discuss the best small manifesto in the world.

Five weeks ago at the sustainable development conference in Edinburgh, the First Minister said:

"For the past three centuries, too many people simply didn't … look to the future, and … concern themselves with the impact their actions might have on the future of our planet … too often many decisions makers take short term decisions rather than the right action for the long term."

However, just two weeks later, the Executive gave the M74 the go-ahead. Friends of the Earth Scotland, of which he is a member, described that as

"probably the worst environmental decision ever taken by the Scottish Executive".

This road will damage local communities and the environment. Even his own response says that climate change pollution will get worse as a result.

Put your question, please.

How can the First Minister possibly justify this decision?

Because the word "sustainable" goes with the word "development". I am to some extent constrained in what I can say on this matter, but I make it very clear that I believe that the construction of the M74 will ensure that parts of Glasgow and the west of Scotland have less congestion and pollution and that the economy of Ayrshire, Renfrewshire and that whole part of west and south-west Scotland improves in years to come. That, in turn, will ensure that we deliver sustainable development for those communities. That is why this decision is so important and why the balance of environmental and economic considerations would lead anyone who looks carefully at all the evidence to say that the road should go ahead.

The First Minister has not even read the report or listened to what he has said himself. His words sound fine, but his environment-wrecking actions demonstrate hypocrisy of the highest order. His green thread—

No, you must put a question.

It is coming.

In that case, let it come a bit quicker.

The First Minister's green thread is well and truly broken. If he does not listen to the advice of his independent inquiry reporter, to Tony Blair's chief scientific officer, to his own Sustainable Development Commission Scotland or to Friends of the Earth Scotland, to whom does he listen? Just the business lobby?

I will tell the member whom I listen to: communities the length and breadth of west and south-west Scotland. I listen not only to communities in Glasgow, Ayrshire, Renfrewshire and South Lanarkshire, but to the other communities north and south of those areas that will also benefit from the improvements to the road. Those people will also directly benefit from the reduction in congestion and pollution that will take place because of the diversion of traffic in that area, should the project go ahead.

I am proud of the Executive's record on transport infrastructure. Not only are we dealing with projects that the previous Conservative Government did not deal with for years, but we are investing in the public transport network with new lines in the Borders, from Airdrie to Bathgate, from Larkhall to Milngavie and from Alloa across to Dunfermline. Those key new pieces of infrastructure are making a difference; they are taking people off the road and ensuring that we have a railway system for the future that is as good as our roads system and that Scotland is connected not just within itself but to the rest of the world.

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Economic Strategy (Employment)

To ask the First Minister what effect the Scottish Executive's economic strategy is having on boosting employment opportunities. (S2F-1574)

Our economic strategy is based firmly on the fundamentals of a strong and stable UK macroeconomy. We aim for full and fulfilling employment in every part of Scotland giving every Scot the chance to learn throughout their life. The effect is that in Scotland today employment is at its highest since quarterly records began in 1992; the employment rate is above that of the UK and second only to Denmark among the 25 countries of the European Union; and unemployment is at historically low levels. That is a proud record and one that we will build on.

Like every other area of Scotland, Dunbartonshire has benefited from stability—in particular, through a dramatic reduction in unemployment. However, in view of the past, and in view of the scale of the task of regenerating areas such as Clydebank, Dumbarton, Inverclyde, Paisley and North Ayrshire, what steps does the First Minister feel can be taken to speed up the Clyde waterfront initiative, and to co-ordinate and target investment in transport, housing, land reclamation and enterprise more effectively, to maximise the significant opportunities that exist right along the Clyde?

We will continue to discuss with our partners on the Clyde waterfront initiative the pace of the programme of work as well as its content and financing. We will also ensure that the area is properly connected to the rest of Scotland and beyond.

This week, I have been delighted to see yet again the success of the new air routes in and out of Glasgow and Prestwick. Those routes are making a difference in connecting that area of Scotland to Europe and the wider world. There are also other new transport connections—new road and rail improvements—to the north and south of the United Kingdom, which will make a difference to the economy of the area.

Our massive investment—a 23 per cent increase in university spending, and a 400 per cent increase in capital investment in our universities and colleges—will make a huge difference to the west of Scotland. Not only do we have employment and infrastructure projects, but we will have the skills, the innovation, the research and the commercialisation that will make a difference and allow the west of Scotland—and all of Scotland—to compete in the rest of the world. It is a comprehensive package. It means that, in future, the west of Scotland will be in a healthy employment and economic position. I am determined to see that through.

The First Minister's answers paint a picture that is dramatically at odds with the UK Government Actuary's Department forecast, which now extends to 2073. It predicts that Scotland will lose 1.13 million working people by that time—35.8 per cent of the current working population. Can the First Minister reconcile his optimism with that stark statistic?

The best thing that we could all do—on the SNP benches, on the Green benches, and even on the Tory benches—is to ensure that young people in Scotland do not hear the girning and moaning of the SNP, telling them that their country is rotten and that they have no job opportunities. After 18 years of disastrous Tory Government, when Scotland's population went down and down and the number of young people leaving Scotland went up and up, we have now reversed both those trends. More young people stay in Scotland than leave. In 1999, the figure for Scottish students who stayed in Scotland was 79 per cent; today it is 89 per cent. Those people are proud of their country. They are taking up their opportunities. The SNP should stop running Scotland down and convincing people to go elsewhere.

Is it not a source of some embarrassment to the First Minister that we have a Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning who is promoting a policy of scrapping the Eurofighter, which will cost hundreds of jobs in Edinburgh? Is it not time for the First Minister to sack his enterprise minister and replace him with somebody who is interested in increasing employment opportunities in Scotland and not reducing them?

I am not going to get into this. I hope that my colleagues in the Liberal Democrats will forgive me if I point out that it is unlikely that they will form the next Government at Westminster and that therefore that particular proposal is unlikely to be implemented.

Both parties in the Executive are committed to employment opportunities and economic growth, and both parties are ensuring that young people—not only in the west of Scotland, as Des McNulty pointed out, but throughout Scotland—have the opportunities that the Conservatives and the nationalists want to run down but that we want young people to take, so that they stay in this country to make something of themselves and make something of their communities.

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Fresh Talent Initiative

To ask the First Minister what impact low immigration levels into Scotland would have on the fresh talent initiative. (S2F-1577)

The fresh talent initiative aims to retain Scottish talent, attract Scots back home and attract talented people with a variety of skills from the rest of the UK and beyond to live and work in Scotland. The initiative is helping us to reverse Scotland's projected population decline, which is the biggest long-term challenge facing our country.

I thank the Prime Minister for that answer—[Laughter.] Please excuse me for saying "Prime Minister". Sometimes I think that the First Minister is doing more Westminster electioneering than Scottish Parliament electioneering, and that is terribly wrong.

My question was about immigration and the fresh talent initiative. In February this year, the Home Secretary said with regard to population decline in Scotland that his policy on immigration was industry led rather than region led. Does the First Minister agree that that policy will have a detrimental effect on the fresh talent initiative and will further compound Scotland's growing population crisis? Has he had any meetings with Mr Clarke regarding those concerns?

I do not want to—and I am sure, Presiding Officer, that you would not want me to—quote at length from Labour Party manifestos. However, I would like to make it absolutely clear that, both in the UK Labour Party manifesto that was published yesterday and in the Scottish manifesto that was published today, there is a clear proposal for a reformed system of immigration for this country. Within that reformed system, there is plenty of capacity, supported by UK Government ministers, for Scotland to have a specific set of criteria that can be used here in Scotland to attract the talented people whom we need in our country to help us not only to reverse population decline but to have a dynamic and diverse economy in the years ahead. That is the policy of the coalition Government in Scotland and one that we are prepared to argue for, and win the argument for, in the years ahead. It is a policy that is already attracting interest not only from Europe but from further afield, as talented people recognise the opportunities and potential that exist in this great small country of ours.

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Trade and Industry

To ask the First Minister whether the Scottish Executive's actions to promote the interests of Scottish trade, industry and exports abroad are supported by the United Kingdom Government. (S2F-1580)

Yes, they are.

Does the First Minister accept that there is a prospect of China becoming the world's largest economy well within our lifetime? Will he clarify, for the benefit of Scots looking for trading opportunities in China, who should be their first port of call in our embassy in China, so that they will receive the best possible advice and assistance?

We are determined to ensure that we have a strong presence not only in North America and in Europe but in the important emerging economy of China. There are opportunities for Scottish companies to export and to build partnerships and there are opportunities for our universities and colleges. We have had two successful visits in the past six months and have put together a comprehensive programme of work. That work will be led in the Beijing embassy by the Scottish Executive official whom we will appoint to work there, but that person will work with other agencies, too. VisitScotland, Scottish Development International and other Scottish agencies will work with Scottish companies in China and will have an opportunity to co-ordinate their actions. That work will be fully supported by the British embassy in Beijing.

I welcome what the First Minister has just said about representation in Beijing. I encourage him to expand that representation into other countries, particularly India, Indonesia, Malaysia and Australia, and to follow the advice of his predecessor, Henry McLeish, who suggested that we should have a whole network of Scottish representatives in all the embassies throughout the world. Finally, I have a specific question. When does the First Minister hope to appoint a successor to Susan Stewart in the embassy in Washington?

The permanent secretary will appoint a successor as soon as is appropriate, and obviously in advance of anybody leaving their post. Our network, not just of Scottish Executive offices but of SDI offices, is comprehensive across the continents of the world and has just been increased in size by a considerable number of new members of staff and new posts. That network ensures that we in Scotland have direct representation in many countries throughout the world. We also have the benefit of direct Scottish representation through the many British embassies and consulates. Of course, the direct impact of Mr Neil's political position would be that we would no longer have access to 200 or so embassies and consulates and Scotland's industries and companies would lose out.

There is a final question, from George Lyon.

Will the First Minister tell us what action the Executive will take to assess the success of the VisitScotland Scottish village, which was set up in Grand central station in New York last week and which hundreds of thousands of American visitors took the time to visit? Will he also say how the Executive will measure the success of the Scottish universities life sciences conference in Boston, at which exciting Scottish projects were showcased to an American audience?

It is unfortunate that from time to time the activities in which we are engaged, not just during a particular week in the United States of America but all year round, are described as being based around one or two marches and parades. A range of activities is taking place, which allows Scotland to be more effectively promoted in the USA and further afield. The Scottish village is an outstanding and innovative idea that has been taken up by VisitScotland and other agencies. It was a huge success in New York—that is already clear—and it will be used at the G8 summit in July to showcase Scotland to up to 3,000 international journalists and media representatives. It will also be used at the Commonwealth games next year in Melbourne to showcase Scotland to the whole of the Commonwealth at one of the premier events of the sporting calendar. The idea will be used again and again to ensure that Scotland has its place.

Our life sciences industry and universities are always uppermost in our minds as we organise not just events but promotions to tell everyone that Scotland is the best small country in the world.

Meeting suspended until 14:15.

On resuming—