The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-21102, in the name of Natalie Don-Innes, on the Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill at stage 3. I would be grateful if members who wish to take part in the debate were to press their request-to-speak button. I call Natalie Don-Innes to speak to and move the motion.
17:45
Presiding Officer,
“We grow up loved, safe and respected so that we realise our full potential.”
No law can achieve such an ambition on its own, but it can create the conditions, the support and the services that make it possible. That is what the Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill does.
I thank every child, young person and adult with care experience who has contributed their views, experiences and ideas to shape the bill. I know that some of them planned to be in the gallery for the debate and many more are watching online.
When Fiona Duncan agreed to lead Scotland’s independent care review in 2016, she set in motion the action that was needed to challenge, encourage and transform the system—and that continues to this day. Equally, I recognise the leadership of our former First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, whose commitment to the Promise helped to ensure that the findings of the care review were not only heard but acted on. Her determination to place care-experienced children and young people at the centre of national policy has been instrumental in driving that work forward and setting the direction that we continue to build on today.
I also thank the committed individuals and organisations across Scotland who are working tirelessly every day to implement the Promise and improve lives. It has been a privilege to visit many of them, to see their work at first hand and to witness their passion and determination.
The bill gives effect to the five foundations of the care review. We promised that children would be listened to and meaningfully and appropriately involved in all decisions about their care. Through the bill, children and adults with care experience will have a right to independent advocacy. We are making changes to the children’s hearings system to make it more child centred and rights respecting. By bringing key services within the scope of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, we are putting children’s rights at the heart of the care system.
We promised that, where children are safe, loved and supported in their families, they should stay with them. Through the bill, we are making family group decision making more consistently available and introducing a right to request it. We are strengthening support for kinship carers, and a national register of foster carers will help to protect children and ensure better matching with carers.
We promised that, where living with family is not possible, children should stay with their brothers and sisters where it is safe to do so and belong to a loving home for as long as they need to. The bill commits to annually uprating kinship care and foster care allowances, extends continuing care to the age of 26 and limits the ability to make profit from the provision of children’s care services.
We promised that children would be supported to build and sustain relationships with the workforce and their wider communities. We are creating a new system of aftercare, offering advice, guidance and support during the critical years, and we are strengthening corporate parenting duties.
We also promised that the system would be responsive and that the scaffolding of support would be there when needed. Through the bill, we are promoting greater understanding of care experience. We are strengthening children’s services planning and accountability. Changes to the children’s hearings system will improve timescales, consistency and continuity—something that we heard very strongly from those who had experience of the hearings system.
On that, I want to recognise the amazing work of the young people who were involved in Our Hearings, Our Voice. Their voices and work have been instrumental in transforming the hearing system, and they should be proud of the contribution that they have made to the bill.
Many of those measures have been shaped by members from across the chamber, and I thank them for their thoughtful and constructive engagement, which continued right up to our stage 3 deliberations yesterday. Our willingness to work together sends a clear message to children and young people in care, and to those who have been in care, that this Parliament is determined to keep the Promise by 2030.
I recognise that concerns about deliverability have been raised, and I understand those, but the bill was always intended to be ambitious, because delivering the Promise demands ambition from all of us. The Government is committed to working with partners to ensure that delivery is not only possible but meaningful.
I am not seeking re-election, so there will be a new minister to take the work forward. I want to take a moment to say how much it has meant to me. I have put my heart and soul into the bill and have prioritised it above everything else. I have worked harder on this than on anything I have ever done. I do not say that for recognition; I say it because of how deeply I care.
One of the most meaningful parts of my role has been meeting young people with care experience and I am truly grateful to every one of you who gave me your time. Those conversations kept me focused and determined. You were never afraid to challenge me—ministers might think that committee scrutiny is tough, but it is nothing compared with walking into a room full of young people who have strong views on the Promise. You asked the hard questions and that mattered. Listening to your experiences of loneliness, anxiety, distrust and struggle stayed with me.
At times, I shared parts of my own story because I wanted people to know that I understood their story, too. I remember telling one group that I still feel uneasy when there is an unexpected knock at my door, because, when I was growing up, that rarely meant good news for me. I grew up in a world where distrust in services was normal, yet here I am, in politics, meeting senior officials, police leaders and educators. That journey has not been easy. Overcoming that distrust and the impostor syndrome that comes with it has taken time and those feelings do not disappear—people just learn how to manage them.
This is not about me. I am deeply grateful to have been given the opportunity to lead the work and I thank the First Minister for giving me that opportunity and for his commitment to ensuring that the Promise remains a Government priority.
My background did not set me on a path to become a politician, let alone a Government minister, but I hope that, by stepping into this role, I have shown any child or young person who feels that their future is hopeless, as I once did, that it is not. You have so much to give and I am living proof of that. Do not give up.
I do not have time to say everything that I would like to, so I will close by once again thanking everyone: the children and young people, the organisations, my officials, members from across the chamber and everyone who has contributed to the bill. It has honestly been the honour of my life.
I move,
That the Parliament agrees that the Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill be passed.
17:53
I begin by thanking the minister, not only for her willingness to work across the chamber, and directly with me, throughout the passage of the bill, but for the speech that she has just given. Her speeches are best when they come from the heart.
That constructive engagement has been genuinely appreciated and reflects the spirit in which the legislation should be taken forward. There can be no question of my belief in the Promise. Like many here, I supported it because it represents something rare in public policy: a clear and shared commitment to fundamentally change the lives of children who have too often been failed by the systems that are designed to protect them. It was ambitious, necessary, bold and, above all, urgent. Scotland made a collective vow to its care-experienced children and Parliament has a responsibility to ensure that that vow is kept.
Make no mistake: the bill is not the Promise and does not come close but, on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives, I can confirm that we will vote in favour of it at decision time.
I also want to be honest with members about what that support means and what it demands. Right from the initial evidence sessions I asked about the deliverability of the bill.
Throughout stage 1, stage 2 and, now, stage 3, concerns have consistently and credibly been raised by those on the front line. Social Work Scotland has warned that the bill’s ambitions simply cannot be realised without meaningful investment in workforce capacity. The Convention of Scottish Local Authorities has been clear that local authorities are already under immense pressure and that giving them new duties without adequate funding risks stretching services even further. The Law Society of Scotland has raised serious questions about the legal clarity and practical application of key provisions.
Those are not fringe voices. They are the very organisations that we rely on to deliver change, and those are the people who will be asked to implement every provision and resource every new duty in the bill. When they tell us that the foundations are not strong enough, we have a duty to listen, and the Scottish Government has a duty to respond with action.
Social Work Scotland, which sees the consequences of the system every day, has reluctantly taken the extraordinary step of urging Parliament to reject the bill. It has done so with what it describes as “deep regret and disappointment.” It reminds us of something we should all reflect on: the care system is already
“cluttered, complex and does not provide a clear frame to support children, families, decision makers and service providers.”
We must not take those words lightly, and supporting the bill does not mean that we can dismiss them.
The Law Society of Scotland has warned that the bill
“does not fully meet recognised human rights standards or provide the legal clarity and consistency that are required in Scotland’s child and family law landscape.”
That is not a minor technical critique—it is a fundamental warning. We should not pass legislation that legal professionals tell us falls short of the human rights standards that we are obligated to uphold.
COSLA has been unambiguous that local authorities are already under immense pressure and that imposing new duties on them without adequate funding will not help care-experienced children but, instead, risks making the system worse for them. The Scottish Government must not pass the bill and then walk away from the funding question. That would not be progress—it would be pressure dressed up as policy.
We will support the bill at decision time because we believe in what it could achieve, but the Scottish Government must understand that passing legislation is not the same as delivering change. The workforce must be resourced, the funding must be real and the legal clarity must be provided. Without those things, the bill will not keep the Promise. It will become another layer of complexity in a system that is already struggling under the weight of good intentions that were never properly implemented.
A vote for the bill today will be a vote for the Promise only if the Scottish Government treats what comes next with the seriousness that those warnings demand. Implementation, resourcing and accountability must not be afterthoughts; they are the whole point. This Parliament must not simply pass the bill and consider its work done. Scrutiny does not end at stage 3. We will be watching and asking the hard questions about whether the investment is real, whether the workforce is supported and whether the children that the bill is meant to protect are actually better off.
The 2030 deadline that was set by the Promise is not a comfort but a countdown, and with the warnings that we have heard from Social Work Scotland, COSLA and the Law Society, the clock is ticking louder than ever. Further reform, sustained investment and an unrelenting focus on outcomes are not optional extras; they are what the Promise requires.
For care-experienced young people and families, what matters is not what we pass in the chamber but what it changes in their lives. Too many of them have lived in the gap between policy and reality, and between what the system promised and what is actually delivered. The bill on its own does not guarantee change. It does, however, create an obligation, and we intend to hold the Scottish Government to that.
The Scottish Conservatives will vote in favour of the bill not because it is sufficient, but because the children that it is meant to serve cannot afford for us to stand still. However, our support is not a green light for complacency. It is a demand for delivery. If we are to stand here in 2030 and say with our hands on our hearts that we have kept the Promise, today must not be the finish line but the moment when the Scottish Government’s accountability begins.
17:59
I remind members of my entry in the register of members’ interests.
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak on behalf of Scottish Labour in this debate. Last night, it was striking to note the significant levels of agreement on the stage 3 amendments. That demonstrated three things. First, there has been much-improved engagement by the minister and the Government to deliver on issues that I and colleagues across the chamber raised at stage 2. Secondly, there is still an encouraging level of consensus and commitment across the chamber on fulfilling the Promise. Thirdly, many people across Scotland, including people in the care-experienced community and those who support them, want to see change.
Unfortunately, the fact is that improved engagement was an absolute necessity. Engagement during the early stages of the bill’s development, before it came to the chamber, was extremely poor. Not all the people who had the most experience and knowledge to contribute to the bill were listened to, and it is much poorer legislation for that.
The bill should not have been left to the last moment; it is far too important. The independent care review told us in 2020 that legislation was needed to simplify the legal landscape, and the Government promised us in 2022 that that would happen. The bill is a lot of things, but simple it is not. Unfortunately, further legislation will be required in the next parliamentary session to clear up the messy legislative landscape, as well as to properly redesign the children’s hearings system. We must learn the lessons that this process has taught us as politicians in Parliament and the Government.
I am proud, however, that we managed to reach a point at which legislation can start to make real and tangible differences to the lives of people in one of the most vulnerable groups in our country. The bill introduces the right to return to care, and that in particular is worthy of celebration. It has provided an opportunity to shine a light on the incredibly important work that the independent advocacy services do. Under article 12 of the UNCRC, young people have the right to have their voices heard, and that must always guide our policy making. Independent advocacy empowers young people to use those voices.
During the proceedings on the bill, I have sought to highlight the need for our legislation to be guided by the UNCRC, to reimagine our approach to children’s hearings and to acknowledge the vital contribution and immense value of foster carers. The provisions in the bill and the discussions surrounding them must provide an impetus to act on those issues.
That is what the bill actually is: an impetus to act. It is an instruction to act. It is a call to capture the voices of our young people telling us to act. It does not fulfil commitments to the care-experienced community—we are still not where we need to be. Corporate parenting and social work are still operating in incredibly challenging environments. Too many care-experienced young people are still not being given the nurturing that they need to thrive. The hard-won victories in the bill will mean nothing if its provisions are not properly resourced and effectively implemented.
In the short time that I have left, I wish to make some genuine comments about a minister who is, as she leaves Parliament, probably at her most valuable. She has crafted a way of reaching out, through stages 2 and 3 of the bill, that I think many people with far more experience could learn from. I hope that whoever follows her builds on that. I hope that they do not start again and need to learn again but that they look at what she has achieved.
From discussions that I have had with the minister and from her contribution, I know that she has had imposter syndrome. In my view, she absolutely should not think that she is an imposter—she is not an imposter in any way. She is a highly skilled and articulate politician who has defended the Scottish Government, has listened to care-experienced people and sometimes to buffooning politicians around the chamber, and has done everything that she could to get the bill into place.
I confirm that Scottish Labour will support the bill tonight, and I thank the minister specifically for that work. Six years ago, parties across Parliament came together to make a Promise. We now need to build on that consensus. We must keep being ambitious but, most of all, where we fall short, we must keep being accountable to the people who really matter, and that is our care-experienced community.
18:04
I pay tribute to Scotland’s care-experienced community. We would not be here without the incredibly powerful political movement that they built, which was ultimately impossible for politicians, Parliaments and Governments at all levels to ignore. That is the only reason why we are here to pass the bill.
The bill is not everything that our care-experienced community deserves, but it makes huge progress. We will need to return to the issues and there will need to be at least one more bill in the next session. As members have highlighted, in general, child law is pretty hopelessly fragmented. At the very least, the great many acts that have been passed by the Parliament, and by the Westminster Parliament before the Scottish Parliament was formed, will need to be consolidated. I am still frustrated that the review of legislation on the care system will come only after the bill is passed, when there could have been an opportunity to make a great many of the obvious changes that I think will be in the review’s conclusions.
Nonetheless, the Scottish Greens are proud to support the bill. It is a stronger bill because of the Parliament’s work. It establishes the right to independent advocacy, which is huge progress. I am glad that we succeeded in defining what that means in the amendments that I lodged at stage 2, as well as the amendments from Nicola Sturgeon and the minister at stage 3. I believe that we now have a far more operable and effective definition.
Yesterday, we added non-instructed advocacy for children’s hearings. It cannot be right that, for reasons of age or incapacity, some children who cannot speak for themselves are at risk of missing out on advocacy in the most critical of settings.
Ministers will now be required to publish corporate parenting guidance, which will need to include information on the provision and renewal of training. Although that sounds dry, it is incredibly important when we think of the critical role that councillors will play in delivering the Promise. Councillors are the leaders of local government and have direct responsibility for looking after so many children in our society.
We can all acknowledge that we came to a relatively untidy solution on UNCRC compliance, but it was the right solution. Everything that we do in the Parliament must be underpinned by, and compliant with, the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. I am glad that we came to the decisions that we did on that.
I thank the minister for the work that she has done throughout the process in agreeing to take forward work to look at the situation of estranged young people across Scotland. Not all estranged young people are care experienced. In fact, many find themselves, in the first moments of adulthood, almost totally ineligible for any form of support, or they might be unaware of what support they can access. In that regard, I pay tribute to Councillor Blair Anderson. As I said yesterday, there are no organisations left in Scotland that are dedicated to representing the estranged community—only Blair Anderson plays that role. As a result of the work that he has done, we have a commitment from the Government to take forward work on the issue. That must be on the agenda in the next parliamentary session.
Before I close, I thank the minister for her work and her willingness to collaborate on the bill, as well as all the work that we have taken forward together throughout her portfolio. There is no doubt about how deeply she believes in the mission to make Scotland the best place in the world for children and young people to grow up. I wish her and her family well in whatever she chooses to do after she leaves the Parliament.
I also thank Nicola Sturgeon for her leadership in this and so many causes that are core to what many of us believe that this country can be. Being the then Deputy First Minister’s temporary bag carrier in 2014 was possibly the most nerve-wracking job that I have ever had or will ever have, but I am grateful for everything that Nicola Sturgeon has given to Scotland and, in particular, everything that she has given to our care-experienced community and the impact that that has made on them.
The bill is one more step towards meeting the Promise to Scotland’s care-experienced community. It is an opportunity for the Parliament to prove that love is a verb. Above all others, we have a duty to show love to Scotland’s children and young people. For far too long, the state failed to show that love to care-experienced children and young people. The past 13 years have been a journey to make amends for that, and this is just one more step on that journey. Although it is far from the final step, it is an important one. For that reason, the Scottish Greens will be proud to vote for the bill at decision time.
18:09
Having responsibility for the Promise is probably the most difficult job in Government. It encapsulates everything that the Government does and it reaches every corner of its work. To be a junior minister in charge of that enormous responsibility was a gigantic task. I have seen the minister grow in strength and authority as the bill has progressed, and I think that she has become an outstanding minister. I know that she doubts herself, but she should not, because she has risen to the challenge and navigated a really difficult bill in such a way that it is now in decent shape. I thank her for that.
The minister also had the former First Minister breathing down her neck throughout the process. I want to take the opportunity to pay tribute to Nicola Sturgeon for her commitment to the Promise. I think that she came into her own during the pandemic. I know that I have probably tested her patience at times. At one point, she called me a “pathetic attention seeker”. I have three older sisters, and that was probably the only time that they have ever agreed with her. I compliment her on her time in Parliament and in Government, and I wish her well in the future.
I thank the officials. It has been a difficult process, but they have been resilient throughout, and I have appreciated the advice that they have provided.
I also thank the care-experienced community and all the various groups that have provided excellent support and guidance. They do not always agree with one another, but that is fantastic, because it gives a great feeling that a thousand flowers will bloom through the process. We have been able to learn from them and, as a result, we have developed a commendable bill.
I recommit myself and the Liberal Democrats to the Promise. It is important to say that—it is important for people to hear that we are not going cold on the Promise and that we will stay resolute to it. On its own, the bill will not deliver the Promise, but it will help on independent advocacy, the children’s hearings system, aftercare, the right to return, kinship and foster care.
I am particularly pleased about the provisions in three important areas, which came about as a result of amendments: the provisions on places of safety, as an alternative to a police station; the provisions on family group decision making, on which I am grateful to Children First for its support and guidance; and the provisions on a register of premature deaths, in relation to which I am grateful to Duncan Dunlop. Although the provisions on that that we have included in the bill are not everything that he wanted, they are a step in the right direction.
The Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill is a good bill, but we must heed the warning that we have been given. All the fine ambitions and good intentions will not matter a jot unless we deliver. COSLA and social workers gave us a stark warning. In the evidence that they gave in committee, they made it clear that they are stretched to breaking point, so if we load many more responsibilities on them, we should not be surprised if that puts the system under greater strain. The bill must be followed by the resources and the experienced people who will be needed to deliver it.
Too often, I see a system that is run on a crisis basis and that is able to respond only when a child is in crisis. When a child is in crisis, it is almost too late—it is never too late, but it is almost too late—and we cannot afford to allow that to continue, because we cannot fail.
When it comes to the future of these young people, we have two choices. We can carry on as we are, with services that are failing to meet demand and lives that are being limited and, sometimes, tragically lost, or we can draw on the amazing talents of these young people, and adults, who are amazingly resilient. They have been through so much that they could make a great contribution to our society. Those are the choices that we have. Do we want those with care experience to contribute and be great people, or do we want those lives to be limited and lost?
That is why we cannot afford to fail. We absolutely must deliver the Promise.
We move to the open debate.
18:14
This will be my final contribution in the Parliament, so forgive me if I get a bit emotional. It feels fitting—fated, even—that I am making this final speech on an issue that is as close to my heart as the Promise is and always will be.
I am one of the few remaining 1999-ers—those of us who were almost literally in with the bricks of this place—which means that I have been here for 27 years. That is almost exactly half my life. Even though the time is right to move on, I will not pretend that leaving is not a wrench—it is.
I say a heartfelt thank you to those whose support has meant so much, to MSP colleagues past and present and to the staff who work so hard behind the scenes. From catering and cleaning to security, the mailroom, IT, the clerks and the official report, you truly are the unsung heroes of this place. I also say thanks to my own staff, who have worked with me in the Parliament and in my constituency.
To my constituents in Glasgow Southside—the best constituency in the country, bar none—thank you for the incredible honour of representing you.
When I look back across the past 27 years, in opposition and in government, through all the triumphs and, yes, the occasional disasters, the thread running through everything that I have sought to champion and achieve is this: equality. I seek equality for my country—hence my passionate belief that Scotland should be and will be independent—and for everyone in it.
Each of us, regardless of background, class, gender, sexuality or ethnicity, should have the same chances in life. What we do with those chances is up to us, but the circumstances of our birth should not place limits on what we can achieve. I believe that we have made progress towards that during my time here, but the global moment that we live in warns us that it cannot be taken for granted. The arc of history might be long, but I have never believed that it automatically bends towards justice—it must always be pushed that way.
It was a group of care-experienced children who, 10 years ago, reminded me of that and persuaded me that, no matter how much progress we make in other ways, Scotland will not be a fair and equal country until those who spend their childhood in care enjoy the same support, stability and love—I underline the word “love”—that most of us get from our parents and families. For as long as those with care experience are more likely than the rest of us, through no fault of theirs, to end up homeless, incarcerated, addicted or dead, Scotland will have no right to claim the mantle of equality. Changing that is what the Promise is all about.
The bill represents, in the words of Who Cares? Scotland, an incredible step in the right direction. That is, in no small measure, down to the hard work and dedication of the minister, Natalie Don-Innes. As she also prepares to step down, she should feel extremely proud of what she has achieved. I am very proud of her. She has stewarded the bill with diligence, care and skill, and I echo what everyone before me has said today: that she should never, ever doubt herself. She is a first-class minister, and the Parliament will be poorer without her. [Applause.]
The Promise must be kept by 2030, and I believe that it can be, but that will require a monumental effort from the next Government and the next Parliament. It will take commitment, courage, investment and a ruthless determination to put the lives of children ahead of the established practices of the systems that they rely on.
I may have been the First Minister who made the Promise, but the real place in history will belong to the First Minister who keeps the Promise. I hope with all my heart that that will be my friend, John Swinney, but whoever it is, I say to them: “Do not fail these children. If you pick up this baton and run towards the finish line with every ounce of your energy, you will hear me cheering you on, but if you do not, be in no doubt—you will definitely hear from me.”
Presiding Officer, I have an eye on the clock, but I hope that you might indulge me for just a moment longer.
Over my years here, I have seen politics and political discourse change almost beyond recognition, and not always for the better. That is true globally, but Scotland has not been immune—and, yes, I know that I bear my share of responsibility for that.
This session of Parliament has been the most fractious and divided that I have served in, but the past couple of weeks have reminded us, through our consideration of the assisted dying legislation and now this bill, that it does not have to be that way. So, let me offer some parting thoughts. Since I have not always lived by these principles, I should probably frame what I am about to say as advice to my younger self, rather than to those who will come after me. Either way, here it is.
Make friends in other parties. Opponents need not be enemies—on that note, I thank one of my good friends from another party, Ross Greer, who has given up some of his speaking time for me today. Reach across the aisle. No matter the depth of your loyalty to your own political tribe, do not forget to think for yourself.
Keep a sense of perspective. If everything is a scandal or an outrage, nothing is, which means that those who deserve to be held to account get off scot free.
Even when trying to bring your opponent down in debate, elevate this institution. This Parliament was hard fought for, and it will outlive all of us, but there are those in the ascendancy in politics today who do not want that to be the case, so do not take this Parliament for granted.
Do not live life on social media. Use it, but never forget that there is a real world out there, and it is the people in it that you are here to serve.
Finally, every day that you walk through these doors and into this magnificent chamber, remember that it is a privilege—a rare privilege. For 27 years, it has been my privilege, one that I must now draw to a close. Let me do so by urging everyone here today to vote for the bill, for the sake of the children who rely on the state—who rely on us—to look after them.
I want the very final words that I utter in this chamber to be for those children and to those who will occupy these benches in just a few weeks’ time. Those words are simply this: keep the Promise. [Applause.]
18:23
I thank the former First Minister for her words. I am not sure that there are lots of things that we agree on politically, but I think that her advice to her younger self is excellent. I had the privilege of being a lobbyist in this Parliament 26 years ago, and I can see the difference since then. Some of the changes have been very positive, but I absolutely agree with Nicola Sturgeon that the way that we conduct ourselves in this chamber is not the way that the Scottish people would want us to. I also want to acknowledge that we have this bill before us today only because of the work that Nicola Sturgeon has done, and, on behalf of the many young people whom I have engaged with on the bill, I thank her for getting us here.
I also thank the charities and groups that have contacted me, spoken to me and helped me with the amendments that I moved last night.
I think that we are still in a good place with cross-party support. I hope that, no matter who forms the next Government and which parties are represented in the next Parliament, that will continue and hold together.
There are some really good things in the bill. I am particularly pleased about the movement on kinship care, and I thank the minister for the work that she has done on that.
In the speaking time that I have left, I will ask three simple questions about where we are and about the bill.
The first is on the issue of UNCRC compliance, on which I agree absolutely with Ross Greer—again, that does not happen often. I hope that the bill is compliant. We have had warnings from the Law Society of Scotland and a number of charities questioning compliance, even given the amendments that we agreed to yesterday. I fear that there will be a legal challenge to the bill from somebody. Clearly, it will take better legal minds than mine to decide on that, but I hope that, whatever challenge comes, we can build on the bill and that, whatever challenges the court brings back to the next Parliament, they can be dealt with quickly.
My second question is on whether the bill can be delivered in practice. I welcomed the comments about that from the minister in her opening speech and from other members. We have to listen carefully to those who have given us briefing papers and warnings on the issue, whether that is social workers, COSLA or others. They have said that the bill will not work unless we fund local services better. This Parliament and this Government cannot do that; it will be a challenge for the next Government and Parliament. If we are truly going to have children’s hearings that work, if we are truly going to have the right interventions at the right time, and if we are truly going to support grandparents, uncles, aunties and others to provide kinship care, it all needs to be funded, and I hope that that will happen.
Finally, what comes next? I join colleagues in thanking the minister for her work at stages 2 and 3. If I am honest, the reason why she is such a good minister is that we gave her a hard time as convener of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee when she first arrived in the Parliament. She has grown in her role as a leader, and she has taken the bill through in a way that many others could learn lessons from.
With both the minister and the former First Minister leaving, and with who knows who being elected in May, my worry is this: who will pick up the challenge after the election? I hope that, in the same way as the present First Minister, Mr Rennie and Mr Greer have done, the two leaders from the Labour Party and the Conservative Party will give a commitment that, whoever forms the next Government, we will see the Promise delivered by 2030. The bill will not be worth the paper that it is written on unless we—not just this Parliament but civic society as a whole—do that.
I hope that the bill will be delivered. It is the first step, and I look forward to seeing what bill is introduced in the next session of Parliament. I am sure that we will all get behind whoever leads it, so that it will be delivered and, most importantly, so that some of the most vulnerable children in our society get a better chance than they have today.
18:29
For probably the final time in this parliamentary session, I declare an interest in that my husband is a children and families social work manager and a registered social worker.
As I sum up on behalf of Scottish Labour, I put on record my thanks to everyone who has been involved in the bill process—in particular, my colleague Martin Whitfield, who was involved in something of a marathon last night as he sat on our front bench and pursued amendments, as did colleagues across the chamber, including the minister, with the support of the relevant officials.
During the passage of this bill, I have said many times that it is an opportunity as well as, at points, a risk, and I think that we are all reflecting on that this evening. As we have heard, it was this Government that brought together the care review and made the Promise. The Parliament agreed with the Promise and, together, we hold it. However, we must reflect that it is the Government of the day that has the power to set the direction and drive the change, and that will be true whoever forms the next Scottish Government when it comes to the progress that we make. As we have heard from several members this evening, the bill does not deliver the Promise and we still have much to do.
I want to recognise, as others have, what the bill does. I acknowledge the progress that, by passing this legislation, we will make in many areas—particularly advocacy, the right to return to care, UNCRC issues and kinship care—and I note the contributions that have been made by many colleagues in that regard. However, we should reflect on the reservations that have been outlined by the social work profession, COSLA and the Law Society of Scotland, and the reservations that have been raised throughout the process by care-experienced people and many others about what more we have to do in order to move forward and keep the Promise.
I join colleagues tonight in paying a warm tribute to Natalie Don-Innes. She inherited the Promise and the bill process as a minister, and I very much believe her when she speaks about how much the bill means to her. I saw that through the interactions that we had on the cross-party group on care leavers, when she was absolutely willing to sit there, front up and answer questions from those young people. Despite a very busy ministerial diary, crucially, she spent time with me on many an evening in this Parliament, engaging with care-experienced people. That speaks to the effort that she has put in.
I have been going round the doors in Bridge of Weir and Houston to solicit votes, and many folk have spoken to me about the respect that they have for the minister and the work that she has done locally. I am grateful that she is not standing as a candidate against me in the election, and I wish her all the very best for the future.
In reflecting on the conclusion of this parliamentary session and on the session to come, it is incumbent on us all, whether we return here or not, to reflect that the biggest danger in relation to the whole bill process and more widely is that a care-experienced person might feel that the Promise was made and people did what they could but then they moved on and the Promise remained undelivered. For too many people—this was at the heart of the care review—that has been the pattern and the story of their experience, and it is what they are seeking to fundamentally change. That should weigh on us all, whether or not we return to the Parliament in the next session.
We have much more to do. We will need more legislation and we will need more energy and dedication, but, like others have done tonight, I recommit myself and my party to the Promise and to ensuring that we drive forward its delivery.
18:33
I, too, take the opportunity to pay tribute to the minister. It is a strange fact that it seems to be only at the end of the parliamentary session that any of us is able to express our respect or friendship for one other.
I thought that the First Minister was about to make an intervention there.
I pay tribute to Natalie Don-Innes, who, as has been mentioned, did a great job as convener of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee. She should also be proud of the work that she has done as a minister and the example that she has set. We often talk in the chamber about lived experience, and it is sometimes thrown around as evidential proof of what we are trying to achieve. I know that the minister has brought that to her role. It is especially important for kinship care, which is one of the aspects of the bill that many of us feel is not where it should be. However, I know that the minister has set in course actions and work that will make sure that that is taken forward.
Other members have already touched on the fact that this is not the complete Promise. This is not us being able to stand up and say that we have collectively kept the Promise. We need to dedicate ourselves to doing that in the next parliamentary session. All the young people who are watching or listening to the debate should know that they are the ones who have driven the change and made every politician from every political party that is represented in the Parliament commit to keeping the Promise and making it a reality.
I have been inspired by every single young person I have met during my time working on the bill. There was the young man who told me that he was studying law and then joked that Scotland needs more lawyers, who has seen how the Promise has made a difference in enabling him to go on to study. Then there were the two sisters whom Paul McLennan and I met at an event in Parliament with the Education, Children and Young People Committee, who demonstrated that we are seeing welcome progress on keeping siblings together, which is something that Parliament demanded.
There is a lot more that we should and must do to make sure that the bill achieves what it has to achieve. As I said, kinship care is an area that I think is important. I met some kinship care families this morning, and I am still concerned about what we are seeing and about the postcode lottery that we all want to be addressed. It is unacceptable that we still see huge variation between local authority areas in what is being delivered for care-experienced young people, from support stopping at 16 or 18 to councils not making sure that support continues up to 21, as is the case in foster care.
We can and must have a far better vision for kinship carers, especially families. At the committee, the minister and I sat in a round-table meeting with kinship care families. It is a story that I repeat, and it sticks with me as one of the main things that has made me think that we, who are doing this job, can always do better. A grandparent told us that, at 3 in the morning, the police arrived at her door with her half-naked grandchild, handed her over and that was it. She had to put together a package, leave her job, rally round and get the support that she needed. She fought for absolutely everything. It should not be like that.
I hope that the opportunities that the minister has outlined—the kinship care vision, the awareness and the visibility of support, and some of the changes that the Government intends to make, especially around providing clearer local support offers, proactively supplying information and improving consistency and transparency—will make the difference. However, if they do not, I intend to make sure that the next bill does more for kinship care families. It is the only way that we can make sure that they will be supported. We can pass legislation, but we need to make sure that attitudes change, and the Promise can build on what the legislation has done.
In the past few years, I have chaired and been involved in many meetings with people who work in social work and across our public sector, who talk about the Promise and their ambitions to meet it. It comes down to resources, and it always will. However, those people are collectively committed to keeping the Promise, and we cannot put to one side the concern, which has been expressed by COSLA, the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives and others, that delivering the Promise on the ground will be the major challenge of the next parliamentary session.
Tonight, I hope that Parliament can and will reaffirm our support for delivering the Promise. I hope that every care-experienced young person who is watching or listening to the debate will see that their Parliament continues to work to progress towards delivering the Promise by 2030. I know that there is frustration at the lack of progress in many areas of delivery on the ground and on reforms. However, we are all committed to this, and I hope that we can send a clear message to care-experienced young people that we care about them and that we will make sure that, by 2030, the Promise is delivered.
I call John Swinney to wind up the debate. First Minister, you have a reasonably generous six minutes.
18:39
Before Parliament votes tonight, I want to reflect on what this moment represents for Parliament, and for care-experienced young people in Scotland. Throughout the debate, we have spoken about systems and reform, but, at its heart, the bill is about people. It is about the children and young people whose lives have been shaped by the care system, and our responsibility to do better for them. The Promise asks Scotland to look honestly at the experiences of those who have grown up in care. It asks us to listen to their stories, not just of resilience and courage but of systems that, too often, failed to provide the love, stability and support that every child deserves and needs in their life.
On Tuesday, with the minister, I met a number of care-experienced people whom I first met 10 years ago. One of those present told me that when someone cannot rely on their parents to care, they need their nation to care. That is a challenge that rests on all of us. Those young people also told me about tangible change that we have seen over the years since the Promise was made. They told me that, in their opinion, our nation cares more than it has in the past. That is welcome, but the challenge that we must always strive to live up to is to improve the experience of children who experience care.
The Promise asked us to change. Members across the chamber accepted that challenge. Today, we take another seismic step in honouring that commitment. Roz McCall is absolutely correct to say that the keeping the Promise bill is not a single bill. It is a generational commitment to transform how Scotland supports children and families. The world is watching the progress that Scotland is making, but, more importantly, our children and young people are watching this Parliament and the steps that it is taking. Moments such as this matter. They show that Scotland is prepared to listen, to learn and to change—that it is prepared to face up to uncomfortable elements of our country’s identity and make things better for those for whom we need to make our country better. They show that the voices of people with lived experience can shape the laws of this country. That is what is happening tonight. Moments such as this remind us why the work that we do in this chamber matters in improving the lives of individuals in our country.
I believe that the bill represents real progress and a clear statement of the direction that Scotland has chosen to take, but it would not have reached this point in the shape that it is in without the leadership of Natalie Don-Innes in steering the bill through Parliament. Since her election to Parliament, Natalie Don-Innes has spoken openly about her own experiences of growing up, which drove her commitment to this legislation. That is clear in everything that she says and does as one of my ministers. She can be proud of the progress that she has delivered in government, and I am immensely proud of how she has gone about doing that and improving the lives of others as a consequence. She has listened, engaged and reflected. That approach has made this Government better and it has made this legislation stronger. I associate myself with what Mr Whitfield said about the learning that hands that are, perhaps, more experienced can take from more junior hands on matters such as this.
I also express my thanks to members of all parties for their commitment to enhancing the bill, as a consequence of their engagement with the minister. That has been the foundation of making the bill as strong as it is, because the minister has led a process of engagement with all parties to ensure that the bill is as strong as it can be.
I know that Natalie Don-Innes’s role as a minister has demanded her personal engagement, investment and activity. Those qualities are rooted in her entire being. I do not often disclose to Parliament the private conversations that I have with my ministers, but I want to make it clear to Parliament tonight that Natalie Don-Innes’s decision to stand down from Parliament is one that I deeply regret and worked hard to try to ensure that she did not take.
Tonight, in the most public way that I can, I express my admiration for Natalie Don-Innes for all that she has contributed to the work of my Government and the Parliament. She stands down from the Parliament with my warmest wishes and my admiration for all that she has achieved. [Applause.]
I also pay tribute to my friend and colleague Nicola Sturgeon, who made her final contribution to debate in the Scottish Parliament this evening—although there will be a First Minister’s question time next Wednesday, at which she may decide to hold someone to account. There is always fear in every week of the parliamentary session. [Laughter.]
Nicola Sturgeon and I have travelled far together since our earliest days in the Scottish National Party. We became members of the Scottish Parliament on the same day and we entered Government on the same day. I was proud and honoured to serve for every minute of my time as her Deputy First Minister. The decisions that she took as First Minister have transformed the lives of people in Scotland—in particular, our children and young people. She led from the front with her bold decision to introduce the Scottish child payment. As First Minister, she expanded free early learning and childcare, extended free school meals and introduced the baby box, but I know that the policy that she feels most proud of and most passionate about is the Promise.
When Nicola Sturgeon and I started on the journey of engaging with the issues of care when I was her education secretary, we started by listening carefully to the voices that were at the heart of the independent care review, which called for a system that is focused on love, safety and respect. I took part in a number of meetings, but Nicola Sturgeon gave a commitment to speak to 1,000 care-experienced young people in Scotland, and she spoke to 1,000 care-experienced young people—and likely more than that.
As she is the First Minister who made the Promise, I know that Nicola Sturgeon feels a particular responsibility to see that it is fully honoured, and that is a responsibility that she has discharged in the way that she has engaged with the bill. I know that the responsibility that she feels to care-experienced children—to ensure that everyone grows up feeling loved, safe and respected—will not end when she leaves this Parliament. In looking forward to her continuing contribution to this effort, I want to express, as First Minister, on behalf of the people of Scotland, my warmest thanks to Nicola Sturgeon for the immense public service that she has given to Scotland as a member of the Scottish Parliament, as the Deputy First Minister, and as the longest-serving and first female First Minister of Scotland. She has much to be proud of and she steps down from the Parliament with my heartfelt thanks for all that she has done for Scotland and with my warmest wishes for all that lies ahead. [Applause.]
Presiding Officer, you have been very generous in your allocation of time to me. I will not speak for much longer, but there is one more important thing that I need to say to the Parliament. As we all are, I am about to embark on an election campaign. Although it will not be a universally popular concept around the Parliament, I intend to work very hard to try to be a First Minister that returns to the Parliament after the election on 7 May. I say openly to the Parliament, to the country, to care-experienced young people in Scotland, and to Nicola Sturgeon, who did so much to pave the way to enhance the lives of care-experienced young people, that if I am fortunate enough to be elected as the First Minister of Scotland and have the privilege of continuing that work, I will do my all to deliver the Promise. We entered into this commitment to improve the lives of care-experienced young people in Scotland and to keep the Promise, which is what I pledge to do if I am elected as First Minister.
I also pledge to work in the way that Nicola Sturgeon did, which is also, if I may say so, what Liz Smith referred to in her speech to the Parliament the other day, when she spoke about our collective endeavour. Presiding Officer, your leadership of the bill that we have wrestled with over the past week has been, as Nicola Sturgeon said, a demonstration that it is possible for us to have courteous and respectful debate as we wrestle with big questions. There can be no bigger question than that of making sure that the future of young people in our country is the best that it possibly can be. If I am fortunate enough to lead a Government, I will work with others to make sure that we fulfil that promise. [Applause.]
Thank you, First Minister. I have exercised a degree of latitude in allowing participation from the public gallery, but we will draw a diplomatic veil over that now.
That concludes the debate on the Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill at stage 3.