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Chamber and committees

Meeting of the Parliament [Draft]

Meeting date: Thursday, January 16, 2025


Contents


UK Covid-19 Inquiry Module 1 Report (Scottish Government Response)

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing)

The next item of business is a statement by Kate Forbes on the Scottish Government’s response to the United Kingdom Covid-19 inquiry module 1 report. The Deputy First Minister will take questions at the end of her statement, so there should be no interventions or interruptions.

14:28  

The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Gaelic (Kate Forbes)

The Covid-19 pandemic affected every aspect of life in Scotland, and its impact continues to be felt. Today, as always, our thoughts are with those who lost loved ones. We understand that, in recognition of the loss, hurt and suffering of the people of Scotland and the wider UK population, we must learn from past events and make effective, practical and measurable improvements in pandemic planning and preparedness. It is vital that we take steps to be as prepared as we can be for the future.

In July last year, the UK Covid-19 inquiry published its report and recommendations in relation to module 1, which considered pre-pandemic resilience and preparedness.

The inquiry’s report sets out its findings in detail, as well as the changes that it considers necessary to improve whole-system civil emergency planning and response in the UK to ensure that we are better prepared for, and are able to respond to and recover from, future emergencies. The findings and recommendations in the inquiry chair’s report cover a range of matters including governance and organisational structures; engagement and collaboration; risk assessment, including capacity and capabilities; the development of cohesive strategies to prevent, reduce, control and mitigate the effects of future whole-system civil emergencies; the use of data and research; pandemic exercising; scrutiny, accountability and transparency; and how we support those who are most vulnerable to risks. We agree with the inquiry that changes are required in relation to those matters.

Scotland faces a range of significant risks, from pandemics to the impacts of our ever-changing weather. We must learn from past events and global best practice to ensure that we are prepared and ready. The changes that we have committed to will ensure that we are better prepared for future pandemics, that we are better prepared for, and are able to respond to, a range of risks and threats, and that we can improve and strengthen our resilience as a nation.

I am pleased that the Scottish Government has now published its response to the module 1 report and recommendations. Those affected by the pandemic, in particular those who bore some form of loss, have placed a great deal of trust in the Scottish Government, not just to take on the challenges that Covid-19 posed, but to be open about and accountable for our performance. That trust is of the utmost importance to the Scottish Government, and it has informed all our considerations of the chair’s findings and recommendations.

The report set out 10 overarching recommendations. Our response, which has been published online today, sets out our commitments for action and the timescales in which we aim to achieve them. We will provide regular updates to the UK Covid-19 inquiry to demonstrate our progress on the recommendations. My Cabinet colleague Angela Constance, the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs, has responsibility for civil contingencies and is already working across Government to deliver the changes that we need.

As we move forward, we must continue to work closely with our local, national and international partners to take the action that is needed to deliver on the inquiry’s recommendations. The changes that are needed to ensure our future preparedness cannot be made in isolation or by the Scottish Government alone, which is why, first and foremost, we are committed to working collaboratively with the UK Government. There has already been joint working with the UK Government and the devolved Governments of Wales and Northern Ireland to deliver a four-nations concept of operations and exercise plan for UK-wide whole-system civil emergencies. Those actions address the findings and recommendations that are outlined in the report. Recommendation 10 requires the UK Government to consult with devolved Governments to create a statutory independent body for whole-system civil emergency preparedness and resilience. We are committed to working together to ensure that any new body is able to deliver its function in a manner that respects the devolution settlement.

Our partners beyond Government are critical to delivering improvements on the ground, where the impact of emergencies is felt most starkly. We fully support the chair’s findings and recommendations regarding the vital role that is played by the voluntary, community and social enterprise sectors, and the role that they can play in building and maintaining our resilience. I pay tribute to the work of those organisations during the Covid-19 pandemic. Health boards, local government and Police Scotland, which are tasked with planning and responding to emergencies, were vital in the Scottish response. I also pay tribute to our communities and the third sector for the innovative and creative ways that they responded to the demands of the pandemic.

As set out in our national performance framework, the Scottish Government is committed, through our policies, to tackling persistent inequality. A more equal society is better able to prepare for, respond to and recover from civil emergencies.

Clearly, certain groups in our society are more susceptible and vulnerable to adverse shocks, and the pandemic not only introduced new inequality but exacerbated existing inequality.

We fully endorse the chair’s recommendations and will take action to improve how we identify, assess and address the potential impacts of whole-system emergencies on the most vulnerable in our society.

The UK inquiry chair has made clear her expectation that institutions take swift action to consider and implement her recommendations to ensure that changes are in place as quickly as possible. We endorse that approach, and I reassure the people of Scotland that we have not been waiting for the chair to publish before taking action on many of the issues that the inquiry raised.

In August 2021, the First Minister established the independent standing committee on pandemic preparedness to provide expert advice on future pandemic risks and how best to prepare for them. The committee provided its final report in November 2024, which covered a range of topics that are closely aligned to those in the inquiry’s report, including effective data sharing and usage; the integration of behavioural science; the improvement of connections between the academic and wider preparedness communities; and the establishment of a Scottish pandemic sciences partnership.

The Scottish Government has already accepted the committee’s recommendations in principle and will provide further details on our planned actions in due course.

We have made changes to embed the reforms in public services and the justice system that the pandemic necessitated. Improvements in the longer term were delivered via the Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Act 2022, which was passed in June of that year.

We have taken steps to increase and secure the types and levels of personal protective equipment items that are held in our national stockpile.

On 4 June 2024, Cabinet agreed to establish a new cross-Government governance arrangement for future pandemic preparedness. Our newly established ministerial oversight group, which is co-chaired by my colleagues the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs and the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, will meet for the first time in the coming weeks.

We have also commenced a programme of work to improve our risk assessment process, which better takes into account Scotland’s circumstances and characteristics, including the impact that risks might have on the most vulnerable in our society.

As part of its examinations, the Scottish Covid-19 inquiry, which Scottish ministers established in December 2021 and operates independently of the UK inquiry, will consider matters relating to pandemic planning and response. We will consider those findings when they are available.

Given the importance of transparency around the actions that we are taking to manage civil emergencies, we will also report to the Parliament every three years on the improvements that we make to emergency resilience and preparedness in Scotland. The first report will be laid before the Parliament in September of this year.

I reiterate the Scottish Government’s commitment to continue the highest standard of co-operation with both inquiries, because learning from them is vital.

I note my gratitude to those who are working on the UK and Scottish Covid-19 inquiries and those who have provided evidence to them. I am conscious of the immense responsibility that they hold, the enormity of the tasks that they face in understanding and distilling the events of the pandemic, and the important lessons for the future.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

The Deputy First Minister will now take questions on the issues that were raised in her statement. I intend to allow around 20 minutes for that, after which we will move to the next item of business. Members who wish to put a question should press their request-to-speak buttons.

Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con)

I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests, which states that I am a practising general practitioner.

The Covid-19 report casts serious doubt on the ability of the Scottish Government to address key failings that occurred during the pandemic. One major concern is the lack of detail on how the Scottish Government plans to overhaul risk assessment and pandemic planning. The Scottish National Party needs to act decisively to update frameworks to respond to new threats and run regular scenario tests.

Transparency is another issue. Regular bedtime deletion of WhatsApp messages means that we will never know the reasoning behind centralised decision making and the lack of involvement of key stakeholders.

The pandemic exposed stark health inequalities affecting Scotland’s most deprived communities and those who are most vulnerable. Without clear leadership and meaningful reform, the SNP risks repeating past mistakes, leaving Scotland unprepared for the next crisis.

The Deputy First Minister talks about adopting a UK-wide strategy, but that sounds hollow given that Ms Lloyd, Nicola Sturgeon’s chief of staff, wanted

“a good old-fashioned rammy”

with the UK Government. While the rest of the UK was developing an NHS app, the SNP Government decided that Scotland would go its own way for the sake of being divergent. How can we avoid that divergence in future policy and continue to work in a four-nations manner?

We watched the relentless march of Covid across Europe and knew that vulnerable groups would be most affected, yet inadequate protocols were in place to protect them. What will the Scottish Government do differently next time?

Kate Forbes

I thank the member for that series of questions. I hope that, in time, as he re-reads our response to the chair’s report, he will see the way in which we have set out clearly our acceptance of the recommendations that have been made by the chair and the fact that we have attached clear actions and timescales to each of our responses.

The member made three particular points, one of which concerned pandemic exercises. Recommendation 6 talks about the need for there to be

“a UK-wide pandemic response exercise at least every three years.”

That is a direct quote from the chair’s recommendations; we are not suggesting that that is our response. We are committed to participating in the tier 1 national exercise programme, which seeks to exercise responses to a range of risks rather than just a pandemic, to make sure that we are prepared for any eventuality. I am sure that, as a practising GP, the member will know that those risks come in all shapes and sizes and that many of them are difficult to forecast.

The member mentioned risk assessment. Recommendation 3 calls for a better approach to risk assessment, and we have accepted that recommendation. We will continue to improve the approach to risk assessment, and we will take a joined-up approach with the other UK nations.

The member also suggested improvements on transparency, which is addressed in recommendation 8. We have accepted that recommendation in principle, and we have agreed to regular reporting. I have already set out the timescales for the first report, which will be laid this summer. Rather than wait indefinitely, we have set out a clear timescale, and we would expect Parliament to scrutinise that first report.

Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)

I welcome the fact that all four nations are working together to improve resilience and planning for future pandemics. Many lessons need to be learned, but I will focus on just three of them. First, I welcome the three-yearly reporting to Parliament. Given the lack of planning and scrutiny in the past with regard to the Silver Swan initiative, that will be a definite improvement.

Secondly, I think that the Deputy First Minister would acknowledge that trust is important and that, therefore, openness and transparency must be our watchwords. That must be more than just a principle; it must also be practice. So, can the Deputy First Minister tell me that the wholesale deletion of WhatsApp messages by ministers and civil servants, including John Swinney, will not happen again?

Thirdly, and finally, we know that risk assessments were not undertaken when the Scottish Government gave the green light for health boards to discharge untested patients into care homes, with the result that Covid-19 spread like wildfire among the most vulnerable. Can the Deputy First Minister assure the chamber that such actions will be fully risk assessed in the future?

Kate Forbes

On the point about WhatsApp and the use of mobile phones, that is an example of how the Scottish Government has responded in advance of today’s statement. As the member will know, we have set out a new policy on the use of WhatsApp, which means that corporate devices will not be able to access it. As a result, and in response to the review by Emma Martins, we have set out a new policy for the use of mobile messaging.

The member also talked about the importance of health resilience, which is captured in the report and in our response to it. As I said, we have been taking a lot of steps to improve the resilience of our health system in order to deal with pandemics in the future. We have identified a number of points in our response to the inquiry’s chair, some of which relate to PPE supply, distribution and training. We are also looking to work with the UK Government on areas of joint surveillance, recognising that the 2011 UK pandemic flu plan was not fit for purpose. Those are just three examples of how we are ensuring that there is greater resilience across the health service and that the people in it are prepared and have the capacity to respond in the future.

I note that the member welcomed the commitment on reporting to Parliament. I think that it is important that we do that on a joint, UK-wide basis. That is precisely why all four nations are, I believe—unless someone corrects me—responding simultaneously this afternoon.

I advise the chamber that several members wish to ask their questions. To get as many in as possible, I need succinct questions and succinct answers to match.

Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP)

It is undeniable that there are profound lessons to be learned from the effect of health inequalities during the pandemic. Will the Deputy First Minister outline how those inequalities will be addressed as part of the public health planning that is being done in response to the evidence shown in the aftermath of the Covid-19 pandemic?

Kate Forbes

Increasing healthy life expectancy and reducing health inequalities across Scotland is an ambition of the Government. We recognise that health inequalities in Scotland have widened in recent years due to several issues, particularly Covid-19. We are developing a population health framework that will take a cross-Government approach to improving the key building blocks of health, including population health, and reducing health inequalities. That issue is prevalent in the inquiry chair’s report and in our response to its recommendations.

Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con)

The rapid development and deployment of technology during Covid was key to the management of the pandemic and demonstrated that Governments can be agile and active when the need arises. Despite that, the development of healthcare technology and telemedicine has fallen back into the slow lane. What will the Government do to ensure that the demonstrable benefits of technology deployment, including data gathering and sharing—especially in an emergency—are fully realised?

Kate Forbes

The member makes a very good point. Data is included in recommendation 5, as is “research for future pandemics”. We accept that recommendation and are fully committed to working with the UK Government to ensure that we have reliable data and research for future pandemics, both for Scotland and on a four-nations basis. We have agreed to that recommendation in full.

Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)

I thank the Deputy First Minister for her statement. Along with other members in the chamber, I acknowledge the comments that have been made about the people who lost their lives during Covid.

Scotland’s response to the pandemic included the third sector in many ways. As the Government has, in its statement, already committed to the significant improvements in pandemic preparedness in social care and health, what help will be given to ensure that our third sector, too, can rise to those demands?

Kate Forbes

Clare Adamson is right to acknowledge the work of the third sector not only during the pandemic but in response to a number of the inequalities that were exacerbated then. I referenced their importance in my statement. We also accept that the work in relation to preparedness needs to go beyond the boundaries of Government, and we will continue to engage with the third sector and others in ensuring our preparedness for a further risk.

Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab)

I welcome the four-nations approach that is being taken. For lessons to be learned, a collaborative approach is vital.

As the Deputy First Minister said, during the pandemic, certain groups in our society were particularly vulnerable, and Covid only exacerbated pre-existing inequalities. More work must be done on that. Can she assure Parliament that the Scottish Covid inquiry will investigate the issues around inequalities and bring to light the injustices that were felt by some of the most vulnerable in our communities? What timescale can we expect for that work?

Kate Forbes

If I heard the member correctly, she asked for reassurance on what the Scottish Covid inquiry would do. As she will know, it is really important that the Scottish Covid inquiry be entirely independent of Government, so it would not be appropriate for me to determine or to guide the areas that it chooses to explore. However, I imagine that the issues that she has identified will inevitably be explored, because they are of such importance to our understanding of the impact through the inquiry.

Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)

The Scottish Government has openly supported continued innovation in life sciences and public health research for the development of diagnostics, vaccines and therapeutics, to provide the capability to respond to novel threats when required. Can the Deputy First Minister outline what investment will be made in that sector in the Scottish budget for 2025-26, and how it will benefit Scots across the country?

Kate Forbes

The member is absolutely right that life sciences are not only a critical driver of growth in our economy; they are potentially life saving, because they provide life-saving therapies and contribute significantly to that. In our programme for government, we set out measures to grow the sector, which currently contributes more than £10 billion to the economy and supports 42,500 jobs. As part of our enterprise package, we will continue to support innovative and high-growth companies that operate in the life sciences sector.

Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green)

This is the first module of 10 that will complete over the next few years. The inquiry is essential and it cannot be rushed, but the recommendations should be worked on at pace. I am grateful to the Deputy First Minister for setting out how that is being done at the moment. However, pandemics do not wait for us to complete work, learn lessons and then implement them before they happen. How confident is the Deputy First Minister that, if we were to have another pandemic in the short term, we would be ready, without the full learning from the inquiry?

Kate Forbes

As the member said, we cannot afford to wait. In my statement, I set out a number of steps that we have already taken in advance of the chair publishing the report and of our response to the recommendations. I mentioned that the pandemic preparedness group that was established published its recommendations last year. Many of those recommendations are similar to those of the chair, and we have already made significant progress on those recommendations. Much of what we have responded to is already in train. The areas that require four-nations responses are probably the items that are new in this response.

Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD)

I am sure that members are reassured to learn that the Government will maintain an adequate stockpile of PPE. Will the Deputy First Minister reassure members that that stockpile will be refreshed so that no staff are opening out-of-date face masks and gowns in the event of another pandemic, and that we will use the time between pandemics—we must think of it in those terms—to ensure that there is an adequate mix of masks to fit all face types, genders and body types, so that we do not have a situation again in which a predominantly female workforce is unable to use face masks that are designed for men?

Kate Forbes

We continue to hold a national stockpile of PPE items, and we regularly update the items that are held in the stockpile to reflect the learnings from the Covid pandemic. All of that is reviewed regularly as part of a four-nations planning and preparedness exercise.

The Scottish Government has recently commissioned a review of the current and future arrangements for face-fit testing of FFP3 masks in health and social care settings, and we will consider the findings of that review once they are available.

To reassure the member and others, I point out that NHS National Services Scotland, which manages the storage and distribution of PPE items on behalf of the Scottish Government, is working continually to improve all arrangements and to ensure that the appropriate PPE items are available at the point and time of need.

Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP)

Throughout the Covid-19 pandemic, thousands of nurses and other healthcare professionals across Scotland administered crucial vaccines to the wider population. I remind members that, as a nurse, I was part of Dumfries and Galloway’s vaccine team during that time.

The vaccine programme was one of the most pivotal moments in tackling the pandemic, reducing harms and deaths, enabling a return to a certain level of normality and reuniting friends and family by enabling safe socialisation. Will the Deputy First Minister speak to what lessons the Scottish Government has learned on the medical response to the pandemic, particularly through the vaccine and testing programme, and how those will enable better planning and pandemic preparedness in the future?

Kate Forbes

The public hearings of the UK Covid-19 inquiry covering vaccines and therapeutics are currently live, so it would not be appropriate for me to comment on evidence that has been presented there. However, we have conducted evaluation studies of our vaccination and testing programme and, in January 2024, we transferred operational oversight for vaccines to Public Health Scotland to ensure that roles and responsibilities are clear and understood in the event of future emergencies. That is one example of the changes that we have made.

One significant lesson learned from the pandemic in relation to vaccines concerned the availability of a workforce to administer them. I thank all those who participated in distributing vaccines. Our vaccine teams are now larger than they were pre-pandemic.

Jackson Carlaw (Eastwood) (Con)

Of course, the previous pandemic of any significance was the Spanish flu pandemic 100 years before, so it is perfectly possible that we will all be dead and gone by the time of the next one. Notwithstanding that cheery thought, institutional memory is a fickle thing, and it is perfectly possible that there will be no first-hand memory to draw on. Therefore, is the Deputy First Minister certain that the processes and procedures that are being put in place will survive the test of time?

Kate Forbes

The member is right to identify the importance of institutional memory and the danger of relying only on it, which is why our four-nations response is so critical. It writes that memory in to the four institutions that govern these islands. For example, one of the recommendations is that we should have a much simpler structure for whole-system civil emergency preparedness and response. I argue that things are always easier to remember if they are simpler than if they are overly complex and bureaucratic.

Irrespective of what the future holds, we understand our responsibility to be prepared, and we are committed to taking the lead on that.

Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)

I understand that, as part of the response to the report, there has been a United Kingdom-wide call for a national laboratory for pandemic preparedness. I note that the standing committee on pandemic preparedness has urged the creation of a centre for pandemic preparedness in Scotland. Will the Deputy First Minister outline the Scottish Government’s work on that so far and say when delivery of it might be expected?

Kate Forbes

We have accepted that recommendation in principle and will work with partners on how to deliver it. The member is right that, in its final report, which was published in November, the independent standing committee on pandemic preparedness made a series of recommendations relating to the use of data, governance, funding and relationships between the private, public and academic sectors. We are developing next steps and I will be happy to update the Parliament in due course.

That concludes the ministerial statement. There will be a short pause before we move on to the next item of business.