Contents
- Scottish Parliament Thursday 15 December 2005
- Family Law (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
- Question Time
- First Minister's Question Time
- Excess Winter Deaths (Greater Glasgow)
- Question Time
- Family Law (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
- Family Law (Scotland) Bill
- Animal Welfare Bill
- Business Motions
- Parliamentary Bureau Motion
- Decision Time
Question Time
SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE
Enterprise, Lifelong Learning and Transport
Forth Road Bridge
To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will provide an update on the future of the Forth road bridge. (S2O-8428)
At present, we are examining several issues in relation to the Forth road bridge: the operation and management arrangements in terms of the tolled bridges review; the Forth Estuary Transport Authority's plans to introduce a road user charging scheme; and the implications of the cable corrosion findings. That work is evolving and I will keep the Parliament advised of progress at the appropriate time.
The Forth Estuary Transport Authority has suggested that the current road bridge should be closed or torn down in 2019 on safety grounds. Bearing it in mind that building a new road bridge will take at least 11 years and will cause major disruption at Queensferry, will urgent consideration be given to appropriate planning for the future? Something should be done now.
I assure Lord James Douglas-Hamilton that urgent consideration is being given to emerging findings from the bridge master and FETA. I have commissioned an independent analysis from the Flint and Neill Partnership, which is one of the United Kingdom's leading consultants on bridges and cable-supported bridges. It is inappropriate to prejudge that analysis. It is important that we obtain that analysis and then assess the exact position. It is important to look at every issue. No motorist would forgive us if we got it wrong, so we should wait until the analysis is complete before we make any final decisions. I assure the member that we will ensure that Parliament is fully involved in that process.
The minister will be aware of last month's members' business debate on the subject, which I initiated. Given the strategic importance of the Forth road bridge not just to the east of Scotland but to the wider Scottish economy, will he assure us that he is taking seriously the suggestion that heavy goods vehicles may be banned from using the bridge from 2013? Is he also taking seriously the devastating effect that that would have on the economy not only in Fife but in Scotland as a whole?
I was sorry not to have participated in that debate. I acknowledge Scott Barrie's point about heavy goods vehicles. I am sure that he is aware that the prediction that has come from FETA and the bridge master is the worst-case scenario. That is why we commissioned the independent study, which we hope will report to us by the end of January 2007. I assure Scott Barrie that his point about the importance of the bridge and the Firth of Forth as a strategic corridor in Scotland is well recognised. That is why we will proceed with this issue.
Obviously, the minister is aware that, by 2013, heavy goods traffic will be an issue and that, by 2019, we face the closure of the bridge unless remedial action is taken. In those circumstances, I hope that he accepts that the window for doing anything is closing fast. Indeed, some might say that the window has closed already, as some commentators say that it would take 13 years to build a new bridge. Given that the window is closing, what is the latest date by which a decision to build a new bridge has to be made to ensure that it opens by 2019?
I have yet to see in the public domain the independent analysis of the position of FETA and the bridge master, but we know what their emerging findings are. As Mr Crawford has also looked at the matter in detail, I am sure that he knows that those findings were based on a 5 per cent analysis of cables. I am sure that we agree that a fundamental decision on strategic investment in Scotland's road and rail network could not be made on such an analysis. That is why we are doing independent work. I do not wish Parliament to think that we had already accepted those dates. As I said to Lord James Douglas-Hamilton and Scott Barrie, we will be in a better position to inform our decision-making process when the independent work has been completed. I assure Bruce Crawford that I am acutely aware of the planning and construction horizons for this project. It is self-evident that it is important that we get it right.
Has the minister seen the presentation by the Forth Estuary Transport Authority? If not, will he make arrangements to do so? If he does that, will he make sure that all the MSPs for the constituencies surrounding the Forth bridgehead are invited to that presentation, which is quite alarming? I share the views of my colleagues who have said that the lead time for a new bridge will be at least 20 years, if we take into account how long it took from the drawing board to the opening of the Forth road bridge and the Kincardine bridge. The minister is correct to say that we should be well informed, but we should be informed about all the studies. I thank the minister for his interest in the matter.
I would be happy to make sure that the presentation that I saw towards the end of November—I forget the exact date—is available to all members. It has rightly been made available to the board of FETA and I am sure that the bridge master will be more than happy for it to be made available to members. I will ensure that that happens.
Tertiary Education (Links with China)
To ask the Scottish Executive how it supports the tertiary education sector in making links with China. (S2O-8461)
We are working hard to build links with the Chinese ministry of education to support Scottish interests. In January, we signed a memorandum of understanding with the Chinese ministry setting out our intention to strengthen co-operation. In October, we hosted a highly successful visit from the Chinese minister for education, Zhou Ji. In November, I visited both Fudan and Tongi universities in Shanghai to encourage further development of the already strong and growing links with Scotland.
I am sure that the minister will agree that China presents a huge opportunity for links with the further education and university sectors in Scotland. I am sure that he is also aware of the links that Elmwood College in my constituency already has in China. I would be grateful if he could talk about how those links could be developed further and the extent to which the Scottish Qualifications Authority can market Scottish qualifications in places such as China.
When I met the Chinese education minister, he explained to me that he is responsible for more than 280 million young people in China. Every year, 5 million young people start university and take part in freshers week. Massive expansion of the universities sector is taking place in China; currently there are more than 2,000 universities in China. Fudan University is one of the top three or four universities and it is very interested in developing links with Scotland. We have a great opportunity.
Elmwood College is already doing great things. I met some of the Chinese students who are involved in Elmwood's golf course management curriculum at Tongi University. I am pleased to say that the Scottish Qualifications Authority, which is also very active in China, has invited Elmwood College to take part in a pilot project to assess students in Chinese. If that is successful, it should have a major effect on the interest in golf-related courses at Elmwood and in Scottish education in general.
Edinburgh Tram Scheme (Costs)
To ask the Scottish Executive what its estimate is of the total cost of the Edinburgh tram scheme and what proportion of such cost the Executive will fund. (S2O-8449)
In September, the promoter reported to Parliament that the estimated cost of the Edinburgh tram scheme is £634 million plus an allowance for optimism bias of a further £46.4 million. That gives a total of £714.7 million. The Executive was prepared to consider a grant of £375 million, subject to receipt of a robust business case. Indexation of that is under consideration.
Given that the total amount for the tram scheme would allow for the renewal of the entire bus fleet in the Lothians and for the current city bus service to be operated for free for seven years, does the minister agree with the Secretary of State for Transport, who is an MP for the city, that in many cases a well-designed and promoted bus-based system is likely to provide a more cost-effective solution? That is why the secretary of state rejected trams for Leeds. Would it not be better for us to do likewise for Edinburgh?
It is interesting to hear the Scottish National Party oppose the trams for Edinburgh. I am aware as, I am sure, is Kenny MacAskill, that Parliament endorsed the general principles of the two tram bills at stage 1. Questions relating to tram schemes in other parts of the United Kingdom should probably properly be pursued by MPs at Westminster.
In discussing the comparisons between trams and light rail in Edinburgh, does the minister have an estimate for the cost of reopening the Edinburgh south suburban line and does he have any plans to consider that as an alternative to trams?
I am sure that the Edinburgh south suburban line will continue to be part of the City of Edinburgh Council's overall transport strategy, which it is for the council to implement. I have no proposals in relation to that issue. We are currently considering the measures that are before us. David Davidson is usually keen to point out that we are investing too much in public transport. I note this heartening change of emphasis on the part of the Conservatives towards encouraging spending on public transport.
Does the minister agree that our thinking on these issues has to be consistent and long term and that, if we were simply to take the individual pitches that were made around the chamber, that would be no way to solve our transport problems in Edinburgh and the Lothians? We need long-term investment.
Will the minister work with the regional transport partnership to ensure that we deliver on issues such as the trams and the south suburban railway and that we invest in buses, which I remember that Kenny MacAskill once described as being the mode of transport for the last century? We need to be modern, radical and strategic. Will the minister give that commitment?
I am happy to agree that we need to be modern, radical and strategic about transport policy—that is what our two parties in the partnership Government are on these issues. Sarah Boyack is right to talk about the importance of regional transport partnerships and what they can do to ensure that strategic investments are made in Edinburgh and the rest of the country. One of the concerns that have been fairly expressed about some of Scotland's great cities is that they have been unable to look 15 or 20 years hence, to ask what investments need to be made to deal with the situation then and to stick with their plans to ensure that they happen.
I hope that the two tram bills continue to make steady progress through Parliament and that we can take these issues forward.
Regional Transport Partnerships
To ask the Scottish Executive how regional transport partnerships are developing public transport in Scotland. (S2O-8498)
The four voluntary regional transport partnerships have been delivering public transport improvements in their regions over the past few years. We are building on their success by developing the seven statutory regional transport partnerships that were established on 1 December 2005. The new partnerships have a statutory duty to prepare a regional transport strategy setting out how they will improve transport in their region.
I am pleased to announce today a two-year funding arrangement for the new statutory regional transport partnerships. The £70 million that we are allocating to them over two years will allow them to deliver a range of transport improvements in their regions and build on the successes of the voluntary RTPs and Strathclyde Passenger Transport.
I welcome the minister's announcement of the additional finances that will be available. Does he agree that such finance could be significant in allowing progress to be made on the upgrading of roads such as the A801 Avon gorge road, which is currently the responsibility of West Lothian Council and Falkirk Council? Buses and heavy goods vehicles find it difficult, if not impossible, to use that road and such an upgrade would allow people from the north and south of my constituency to travel more safely—maybe even by bus.
That route is exactly the kind of route that could benefit from the capital allocations that we have announced today, as it is a strategic priority for the regional transport partnership in that area, and I hope that it will. This seems like a good opportunity to take that project forward. I hope that the package of work and the funding can be brought forward, as the route is an important one not only for Mary Mulligan's constituency but in a strategic sense across the region.
Is the minister aware that Grampian is 2 per cent more rural even than Highland and that, in parts of Grampian, such as the constituency in which I live, there is no realistic prospect of sensible access to train services? Will that part of Scotland receive additional investment to support the development of public transport, which will benefit constituents such as me who have a 6-mile walk to the nearest bus?
I am not familiar with the 2 per cent statistic. We might want to look closely at that. However, I recognise the point about the integration and availability of public transport, and about ensuring that there are alternatives to the car in areas where, as Stewart Stevenson fairly points out, there are no train services. We need to find a better balance. I am aware of the good work that Aberdeenshire Council does in its part of Scotland on initiatives such as demand-responsive transport. I can only encourage the council in that work through the capital allocations that we have made today for transport.
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I am being disingenuous—I wanted to clarify that I meant Aberdeenshire, not Grampian. I apologise.
Bus Compliance Officers
To ask the Scottish Executive whether there are sufficient bus compliance officers to monitor the enforcement of bus registration in Scotland. (S2O-8470)
From January 2006, the number of bus compliance officers in Scotland will increase to six. Four of them will be funded by the Scottish Executive as part of our commitment to improving bus services in Scotland. That level of resource will enable the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency to adopt an increasingly effective and proactive approach to monitoring and enforcing bus registrations.
The minister may be aware that there have been difficulties in west central Scotland, particularly in Inverclyde and Renfrewshire. I understand that some bus companies are still not complying fully with the regulations and are not running after 6 pm, although they are contracted and required to do so until 9 pm or 10 pm. When the new bus compliance officers take up their posts in the new year, I would be grateful if the minister would use his good offices to encourage them to pay particular attention to communities where such things are happening.
I am more than happy to take up Wendy Alexander's suggestion. I ask her and any other members who have concerns about particular operators to bring them to the attention of the Scottish Executive Enterprise, Transport and Lifelong Learning Department and the appropriate regulatory bodies, so that we can ensure that the services that we all seek for our constituents are the best they can be.
Concessionary Fares (Mature Students)
To ask the Scottish Executive what its position is on providing concessionary fares to mature students and what action it plans to take on this issue. (S2O-8510)
The Executive has no plans to provide concessionary travel to mature students. It provides help with travel costs for mature students under further and higher education funding. Student discounts for travel are commercial decisions made by travel operators.
I thank the minister for repeating the answer that he gave to Mary Scanlon last month. However, the question is about a particular operator. Scottish ministers have the power to set frameworks within which concessionary fares are granted. Given that Lothian Buses is the only company in Scotland to discriminate against mature students, and given the Executive's commitment to lifelong learning, does the minister agree that that behaviour is totally inappropriate? Students who are over 25 should be supported in the same way as students who are under 25. Will he use his powers to demand that public transport services stop discriminating against mature students?
There has been a consistent policy on this matter for many years—as far as I am aware since 1999, when we were all first elected to the Parliament. It has not changed in that time and we have no plans to change the position. If Mr Harper wishes to pursue the issue with Lothian Buses, he can do so, but he seems to miss the point that we invest considerably in travel support for students—not just mature students but students generally—with the funding that we apply through my colleagues in the Scottish Executive Enterprise, Transport and Lifelong Learning Department. That has always been viewed as the appropriate way to deal with such matters and we have no plans to change that position.
Justice and Law Officers
High Court (Reforms)
To ask the Scottish Executive what evaluation has been carried out of its action to reform the operation of the High Court. (S2O-8503)
Initial evidence shows that our reforms of the High Court are having a real impact. Current projections are that as many as 50,000 fewer witnesses may need to be called to the High Court in the 12 months since the reforms were implemented.
Will the minister assure me that lessons will be learned from the evaluation of the High Court reforms and that the same rigorous and radical action will be taken to guarantee that our district and sheriff courts enjoy similar benefits of reform? Will she ensure that victims' and communities' needs are central to any such reform proposals?
I give an absolute assurance on that. Our overall aim has always been to deliver a faster, more efficient and more responsive system in all criminal justice services, but particularly in our courts, and to ensure that we have a better service for victims and witnesses. Our evaluation of the High Court reforms is at an early stage, but the results so far seem positive and we want to learn from them. We will produce proposals for the summary courts in due course.
District Courts (Clerking)
To ask the Scottish Executive what plans it has to review the clerking of district courts. (S2O-8463)
District courts are currently run by local authorities. As part of the summary justice reform programme, to which I referred, district courts will be unified under the control of the Scottish Court Service, so the recruitment and training of legally qualified clerks will be managed nationally.
It will come as no surprise to the minister that I wish to bring to her attention the recent rather astonishing and, I believe, unprecedented incident in Caithness district court in which, for whatever reason, the clerk decided to walk out, thus bringing a case to a surprising and sudden halt. The case has subsequently been relaunched in the sheriff court, but the incident flew in the face of the public's perception of the smooth administration of justice and the public's confidence that such administration leads to a right solution. What action will the Executive take to reassure me that a similar incident will not happen again in a district court in Scotland?
I reassure Jamie Stone that the matter has been investigated. The individuals involved were, as I said, employees of the local authority. As I have conveyed to Jamie Stone in a letter, the matter has been thoroughly investigated. However, I put on record once again my view that our court service should run efficiently and smoothly and should not impede justice being done and being seen to be done in local communities. I will keep in touch with Mr Stone to keep him up to date on our proposals. If further issues arise, I am sure that he will draw them to my attention.
Class A Drug Offences
To ask the Scottish Executive how many class A drug offences have been reported this year and how this compares with previous years. (S2O-8453)
The available recorded crime statistics do not include a breakdown by class of drug. However, figures show that 4,307 seizures were made of class A drugs in 2003, which is the most recent year for which data are available.
It is interesting that the Executive does not produce the same information as is produced in England, where the latest figures show a 16 per cent rise in class A drug offences. That is worrying, particularly if the same has happened in Scotland. I am sure that the minister shares my concern about the grip that drug abuse and drugs-related crime are gaining, even in the small Ayrshire towns and villages that Cathy Jamieson and I represent. A graphic example of that is the recent find by children in Muirkirk of a drugs stash, with a street value of £300,000, and a handgun. What new initiatives or resources are being put in place to stem the misery that is brought about by the evil drugs business?
We have expanded the operations of the Scottish Drug Enforcement Agency significantly and given it new powers. Its work is significant. I am impressed not just by its work within Scotland, but by its increasing number of international links. The SDEA has identified a challenge that faces society as a whole and it in particular. It must have access to expertise that matches the expertise of the major criminal gangs. We are funding and supporting the development of expertise in financial operation matters and in information technology. I am not complacent, because I realise that, because of the profits involved, every time that we make progress, the criminals seek other opportunities. Nevertheless, I am heartened by the excellent work that the SDEA is carrying out.
Her Majesty's Prison Inverness (Female Unit)
To ask the Scottish Executive what long-term plans it has for the female unit in HM Prison Inverness. (S2O-8446)
The Scottish Prison Service has no plans to change the female unit in Inverness. The unit will remain an integral part of the prison, which serves the courts of Highland and Moray.
There is a desperate need for female prisoners to be close to their family and friends. However, I believe that the latest annual figures show that about 290 females were sent to prison for fine default, which means that they are removed from their family—in particular their children—and friends. Is there no mechanism for reducing the number of women who are sent to prison for fine default?
I agree with the member on that issue. We have debated and discussed the matter in the chamber on several occasions. We are keen to try to ensure that there are appropriate alternatives. For example, we have piloted the option of supervised attendance orders. I give the member an assurance that we will continue to do what we can, but we must also try to ensure that people do not end up in our criminal justice system in the first place.
We are aware that many women who end up in prison also have some of the problems that my colleague Hugh Henry has mentioned, such as drug misuse, debt, financial difficulties and so on. If we can deal with those issues, that will help us in our efforts to reduce offending and reoffending behaviour.
Question 5 is not lodged.
Antisocial Behaviour
To ask the Scottish Executive how it is encouraging local authorities and police forces to make full use of their powers to address antisocial behaviour. (S2O-8472)
Local antisocial behaviour strategies and outcome agreements include clear targets against which the Executive monitors performance. Ministers regularly meet local delivery agencies and communities—for example, the First Minister was in Aberdeen earlier this week. We also produce publications, such as "Standing up to Antisocial Behaviour: First Anniversary Report" and our regular community newsletter. Those give examples of positive action being taken in communities throughout Scotland in the fight against antisocial behaviour.
Does the minister agree that, as well as taking other measures, it is vital that councils make full use of their new powers to protect communities? I welcome the fact that Aberdeenshire Council has recently employed those powers to counter antisocial behaviour in Westhill, but it is surprising that that appears to be only the second time that the council has applied for an antisocial behaviour order in recent years. Will the minister reassure me that the Executive supports and encourages councils in using their new powers and that there are no political reasons for their not being employed?
I cannot speak for the handful of Scottish councils that have used either no or only one or two antisocial behaviour orders in the past two years. Councils must make decisions about the circumstances that pertain in their local areas. I would be disappointed if any local authority set its face against using the significant powers for political reasons. We have given the powers to local delivery agencies because people throughout Scotland were yearning for action to be taken to tackle insidious antisocial behaviour. I am encouraged that we are—slowly but surely—seeing the effective application of those powers. However, I acknowledge that some areas are more active in using the powers than others. One of the reasons why we produce a regular newsletter is to let people—not only local authorities but local agencies and communities—throughout Scotland know what is happening. If nothing is happening in their area, they can point to good examples elsewhere and ask why such action is not happening in their locality.
Does the minister agree that ASBOs on conviction are an extremely useful tool and way of using the new regime? He will be aware that in some parts of Scotland, for example Dumfries and Galloway, ASBOs are already being used extensively. Has he any specific plans to encourage their much wider use?
It is not for politicians to determine the use of ASBOs on conviction, but we are ensuring that people across Scotland are aware of the powers that are available. We want people to be aware of the application of ASBOs on conviction and we want to promote and encourage examples of good practice so that others can take confidence.
On a number of occasions, we have discussed in the chamber some of the excellent initiatives that have given respite to communities across Scotland. I am heartened that people are now beginning to see the benefits of the legislation that we have passed.
To ask the Scottish Executive whether the use of antisocial behaviour orders has been effective in reducing nuisance and distress to communities and individuals. (S2O-8468)
As part of a package of measures that includes prevention, diversion and early intervention, antisocial behaviour orders are a very useful tool in bringing respite to hard-pressed communities and in dealing with people who persistently refuse to change their behaviour. More ASBOs are being applied for and granted; there was a significant increase between 2003-04 and 2004-05. That shows that agencies are finding them an appropriate and valuable form of intervention.
I welcome the minister's comments on the range of approaches being undertaken, and I commend the work that is being done in my constituency, particularly in the Parkgrove, Clermiston and Muirhouse areas. What plans does the Executive have to reduce the number of breaches by offenders? Does he agree that such breaches must be dealt with quickly and effectively by the courts and other agencies if ASBOs and the other approaches that he has mentioned are to command public confidence?
We need to be careful when discussing breaches because in some cases there are multiple breaches and we do not know how many people are directly involved. We are looking into that.
We are at an early stage, but I am heartened that the majority of ASBOs are being complied with and that a pattern is emerging of breaches being dealt with quickly. Once the message gets out that breaches of ASBOs will be dealt with quickly—Margaret Smith is right to emphasise the importance of that—I am sure that people will think twice about breaching them. The word is now getting out that ASBOs are not just useful but effective.
Transportation of Prisoners (Reliance)
To ask the Scottish Executive what advantages have been gained from the Reliance contract for the transportation of prisoners. (S2O-8424)
The contract with Reliance Custodial Services has resulted in greater efficiency in prisoner escorting. That has allowed a significant number of police resources to be redeployed to front-line duties.
I thank the minister for her excellent answer and I applaud her for her courage in sticking with the contract in the difficult times when the contract was introduced. Now that the minister has adopted that Conservative policy—which was produced before the 1997 election—and has used it successfully, will she listen a bit more closely to members in the Conservative ranks, especially on the subject of automatic release? Will she do something about that now?
I am getting a bit worried, Presiding Officer: that is twice in one day that Phil Gallie has—I think—tried to be complimentary to me. That does not usually happen and I always take it as a bit of a warning.
I recognise what Phil has tried to do in supporting us on this matter, but there are other issues on which I see no common ground between us and the Conservatives. He knows my views on early release well, because I have expressed them in the chamber before. In the run-up to the 2003 election, we made a commitment in the Labour manifesto to ending automatic early release. The Executive intends to introduce an appropriate scheme to do that—we have made that commitment on a number of occasions. I look forward to having Phil Gallie's support as we take that particular bill through the Parliament.
Chief Constable of Dumfries and Galloway Constabulary (Meetings)
To ask the Scottish Executive when the Minister for Justice last met the chief constable of Dumfries and Galloway constabulary. (S2O-8441)
I last met the chief constable of Dumfries and Galloway constabulary on 14 November 2005.
I think that I also meant to ask what matters the minister discussed with him. That might have hinted at my next question, which is whether she discussed antisocial behaviour in some of our smaller rural communities. I am receiving a growing number of letters from members of rural communities right across my constituency which draw my attention to the increasing incidence of antisocial behaviour, which is usually committed by a very small number of disruptive youngsters. As the minister will be aware, such behaviour can cause mayhem and a considerable amount of stress in small communities.
What further measures could and will the Executive take to address that problem because, in spite of Roseanna Cunningham's remarks about Dumfries and Galloway and what the Deputy Minister for Justice has said in his replies to several questions, the current measures are simply not working in many of our small rural communities?
It is for local agencies to work together closely to ensure that all the tools that we have put at their disposal are utilised appropriately. I am certainly aware of the keen interest that the chief constable of Dumfries and Galloway constabulary takes in working with young people to ensure that preventive work is done and that the law is enforced when crimes are committed. I know that excellent examples of work that has been done in small rural areas exist, because I have had the opportunity to meet some of the young people involved. As Mr Fergusson's constituency borders my own, I am familiar with the particular difficulties that are experienced there. The Parliament has legislated in this area and we have provided the resources for the necessary work to be undertaken. Therefore, I would expect every agency to seek to use the tools that it has at its disposal to tackle what can be a very real problem for people.
The minister will be aware that Dumfries and Galloway is one of the few areas in which most of the agencies—the national health service, the police, the fire service, the local council and the enterprise company—have coterminous boundaries. Even the Scottish Parliament constituencies in that area share the same boundaries. Coterminous boundaries offer great scope for inter-agency working. Will the minister reassure us that the police in Dumfries and Galloway will continue to enjoy such boundaries in future?
Coterminosity can present an opportunity to achieve close working relationships, but we must ensure that people are able to look further afield than their own area. For example, under the proposals for the new community justice authorities, part of Ayrshire will join up with Dumfries and Galloway to ensure that we have an opportunity to manage sentenced offenders better throughout the south-west of Scotland.
I think that it has been stated before that, at present, we have no plans to examine the restructuring of police forces. However, I am sure that Alasdair Morgan, and other members, would agree that the most appropriate way of dealing with the issue is to ensure that the services that get the best outcomes are provided for local people; logically, the structures should follow that.
I note that Rosie Kane is absent from the chamber. Have there been any cases in Dumfries and Galloway in which the police have been used to remove asylum seekers? Are the police used to trace those people who deliberately avoid removal from this country?
I cannot give Phil Gallie the relevant figures off the top of my head, but I can tell him what I would say in my reply to Rosie Kane if she was present to ask the next question. The nature, the timing and the extent of any police involvement in the removal of failed asylum seekers are operational matters, which are decided on by the chief constables in conjunction with the United Kingdom immigration service.
Rosie Kane is not here to ask question 10, so I suspend the meeting for one minute before the next item of business.
Meeting suspended.