Plenary, 12 Mar 2009

Meeting date: Thursday, March 12, 2009

Official Report 758KB pdf

---

Question Time

---

SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE

---

Europe, External Affairs and Culture

---

Creative Industries (Employment Opportunities)

To ask the Scottish Executive what measures it is taking to support employment opportunities in the creative industries. (S3O-6223)

As somebody who previously worked in the creative industries, I am glad to say that the Government is committed to supporting the creative industries, which contribute more than £5 billion in turnover and employ more than 60,000 people in Scotland. With our investment in modern apprenticeships, we are ensuring that young people can get into the industry; with our investment in training, we are ensuring that people have the right skills to be successful; and with our development of the creative industries framework agreement, we are ensuring that creative practitioners can access effective support.

As the minister said, there are opportunities in the sector. I hope that, in the coming weeks, he will take the opportunity to meet Creative and Cultural Skills, the sector skills council for the sector, to ensure that the opportunities for apprentices are fully explored and met. I encourage him to meet other employers in the sector and encourage them to take part in the apprenticeship summit that was agreed recently during the budget process.

I am happy to commit myself to working closely with employers and other organisations to ensure that our positive policy is followed through. At the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities conference two weeks ago, I met Councillor Harry McGuigan to discuss COSLA's involvement in the creative industries framework agreement, and he and I will jointly convene the first meeting of the short-life group to ensure that that agreement becomes real. That meeting will take place within the next month or so.

I am committed to ensuring, wherever possible, that people get the right skills, that they are enabled to use them, and, most important, that they have the opportunities to use them. Creative Scotland will be an important part of that as well.

Will the minister lend his support to community creative arts such as the Angus Minstrels, the Abbey Theatre, Angus Musical Youth Theatre, musical societies, the National Operatic and Dramatic Association and other amateur organisations that not only serve as a platform for talent, but act as a launch pad for future professionals, both back of house and on stage?

I am happy to make that commitment. Support for all those who work in the arts, at either amateur or professional level, is crucial. The member and I disagree on one or two cultural things. I remember that he is not fond of Gilbert and Sullivan, whereas I might admit to a slight fondness there. However, amateur musical theatre companies, amateur musical societies and NODA all make important contributions, and I hope that they continue to do so. Everything that the Government does within culture is designed to encourage creativity, access and participation.

---

Performing Arts (Aberdeen)

To ask the Scottish Executive how it is supporting the performing arts in Aberdeen. (S3O-6192)

Aberdeen and the north-east's thriving arts scene is supported in a number of ways. The Scottish Government provides funding for local cultural services through the local government finance settlement. It is for each local authority to determine how to allocate resources for particular services based on local needs and priorities. Funding for the performing arts is distributed by the Scottish Arts Council, which is the main funding body for the arts in Scotland. The five national performing companies receive direct funding from the Scottish Government, which enables them to reach audiences throughout Scotland, including in Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire.

Does the minister agree that the great and hospitable city of Aberdeen deserves and needs thriving performing arts, just as other Scottish cities do? The Scottish Arts Council's help has been welcome in ensuring that the city's famous venue the Lemon Tree can reopen under the excellent management of Aberdeen Performing Arts. However, does the minister agree that further support will be required if, in addition to visits to Aberdeen from touring productions by national companies—I am sure that Gilbert and Sullivan productions will be welcome—more productions are to be developed in the city?

I regard the Lemon Tree as an important venue. The Government has shown that in its support and encouragement for the solution that has now been found. Of course, it would be entirely inappropriate for me to allocate moneys myself to any particular venue, but I think that everybody agrees that the Lemon Tree fulfils an important role in the ecosystem of the arts in the north-east. It does just the things that the member said and, in those circumstances, it deserves to be supported.

---

Creative Scotland

To ask the Scottish Executive when creative Scotland will be operational. (S3O-6228)

Creative Scotland will become operational in the first half of next year. As I said on 18 February, in a contribution that I think was well reported, creative Scotland is needed and it will come to fruition.

I am grateful to the minister for his comments and I welcome his assurance that creative Scotland will be established. Is the minister aware of the concerns and anxieties of a number of cultural organisations about their short and medium-term funding in the absence of creative Scotland? What assurances can he offer them that that problem will be resolved?

I am always aware that organisations that are involved in the arts have constant questions about their future and operation. It is important that we have a stable structure that supports the arts and culture in Scotland. There is at present a structure that consists of creative Scotland and the Scottish Arts Council. The new structure, which we anticipate will be in existence in the first half of next year, will succeed that. There is no interregnum; there is a structure and there will be a structure. Organisational support and funding are there and are secure. They will become better when creative Scotland is in place. A great deal of work needs to be done to ensure that that happens.

The whole Parliament has the opportunity to participate in that. I invited the Opposition culture spokespeople to the event at the Traverse on 18 February. I am happy to work with members throughout the Parliament and with the Education, Lifelong Learning and Culture Committee, which the member convenes and which has oversight of the matter, to ensure that we deliver creative Scotland in the best way possible. We can then put an end to what I have called the decade of debate about the structures of the arts in Scotland and ensure that we are doing the real job of supporting the arts by supporting creativity, access and participation.

---

Lübeck Letter

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it has approached the city of Lübeck to request that the Lübeck letter be loaned to Scotland on a long-term basis. (S3O-6164)

The Scottish Government has no plans to request a long-term loan of the Lübeck letter. We have taken advice in that regard and we believe that such an arrangement would be contrary to archival good practice and could seriously damage an extremely important document.

I thank the minister for his reply, albeit that it was rather disappointing. I remind him that the Lübeck letter was previously loaned to Scotland, apparently without any damage being done to it. Does he agree that the letter is an important historical document, given that it is the only surviving document offered by William Wallace and Andrew Murray? Does he agree that a return of the letter on a long-term loan, possibly to the Wallace monument in Stirling, would provide a real boost to tourism in the area?

Such is the state of technology that an excellence facsimile of the letter could easily be made available for display anywhere. There is a different issue around cultural return.

The member is right to say that the letter was previously exhibited in Scotland. It has been exhibited here three times in the past 100 years or so. It was exhibited in 2005 when the National Archives of Scotland borrowed it for a single month—the maximum time permitted—to feature in the for freedom alone exhibition in the Scottish Parliament. In 1999, the National Museum of Scotland borrowed it for two months—that loan period was permitted at the time, but it is not permitted now—for display in the opening exhibition of the new museum. In 1911, it was borrowed for an unknown period for the Glasgow palace of history exhibition. However, the document is very old and very fragile. If we were to ask for its return on a long-term basis, even if we were allowed to get it—I think that that is very unlikely—the conditions that would apply would be onerous indeed. We do not need to get the letter to be able to display it in perfect facsimile form.

I have spent a lot of time over the years working on the issue of cultural return. There are occasions when artefacts should be returned to where they came from, but I do not think that this example meets any of the criteria that are normally applied in cultural return.

---

Visual Arts

To ask the Scottish Executive what its priorities are in relation to supporting the visual arts, in particular painting and sculpture. (S3O-6172)

The Scottish Government's aims for visual arts, as for other art forms, are to encourage and sustain people who create; to ensure that their work is widely accessible; and to give people of all ages the opportunity to take part in creative activities. The Scottish Government pursues those aims through working with our partners in local authorities, the national collections and the Scottish Arts Council, and through supporting the work of higher education institutions in the visual arts.

The minister is aware that there is considerable concern among artists about the commercial ethos behind the Government's proposals. I briefly offer a sketch of Sweden's objectives for national cultural policy, which include—

Very briefly, Mr Harper.

I will be as brief as I can be. Sweden's cultural policy aims

"to take action to enable everyone … to experience culture, and to engage in creative activities of their own;

to promote cultural diversity, artistic renewal and quality, thereby counteracting the negative effects of commercialism;"

and

"to enable culture to act as a dynamic, challenging and independent force in society".

The minister has had conversations on the matter. How does he react to criticisms that have been levelled at the ethos behind the Government's proposals?

There are many reasons why the arts should be supported and why we should encourage people to take part.

At the risk of being boring, I repeat what I have said in answer to almost every question. I regard the purpose of the Government's cultural policy as being: first, to encourage creativity—that is, to centre on the artist; secondly, to encourage access; and thirdly, to light that creative fire that exists in every individual, therefore to encourage participation. I see that purpose in the context of what one would call a national and international culture. Many people might write a host of detailed objectives around that, but that is what I am concerned about delivering and what I hope to deliver during whatever period I am in office.

Will the minister elaborate on the support that the Government is giving to Scotland's colleges of art?

I am delighted to do so. During the next couple of months I hope to have a range of meetings with a range of individuals in the colleges of art, to consider the work that they are doing. The colleges of art have a number of basic functions, which my friend the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning strongly supports. Those functions might be divided into, first, placing people within the tradition—that is, educating them in what art is and how the tradition affects them; and secondly, encouraging people to be daring, to go on to the cutting edge and to innovate as much as possible. I am sure that those are the most important things that art colleges do, although they do many other things. I hope to be able to encourage such activity.

---

Year of Homecoming (St Andrew's Day)

To ask the Scottish Executive what support it is giving to events to celebrate St Andrew's day in the year of homecoming. (S3O-6185)

A decision has yet to be made about the level of Government funding to support St Andrew's day activities in 2009. However, I aim to do that soon. I will certainly do it in the context of an outstandingly successful start to the year of homecoming, particularly in Dumfries, where between 17,000 and 20,000 people took part in an event on 25 January. I am happy to welcome Provost Jack Groom, provost of Dumfries, to the Parliament.

I and the Government will do all that we can do to encourage events throughout Scotland, to ensure an outstanding finale to the homecoming celebrations, to mark our national day and to bring a wonderful thing to a conclusion.

I am sure that the minister agrees that the earlier the people who are organising events for St Andrew's day can be assured of funding, the more successful the events are likely to be.

The minister might be aware that there are ambitious plans to enhance the St Andrew's week festival in St Andrews, in my constituency, which is a major homecoming event that features in the homecoming Scotland events guide. The plans are at risk because of uncertainty about the funding that is available, which has led to the loss of some acts and planned events. The centrepiece of the festival, the son et lumière display, which has significant long-term potential as a tourist attraction in St Andrews, will be at risk if funding decisions are not taken now. Will the minister do all that he can do to ensure that funding applications for St Andrew's week are processed quickly, to allow a potentially prestigious event to take place as advertised?

Yes.

Thank you.

---

Cultural Opportunities

To ask the Scottish Executive what its priorities are for improving cultural opportunities for people across Scotland. (S3O-6220)

Improving cultural opportunities has to start with encouraging and sustaining the people who produce the artistic and creative output that people experience and enjoy, which should embrace all sectors, art forms and types of creative expression. We must ensure that artists' work can be accessed and give everyone the chance to take part in creative activity. Those are the basic building blocks; that is what we have put in place and will continue to put in place.

The Regal theatre in Bathgate recently reopened after refurbishment. Something as simple as having a fully staffed box office that is open every day has made a significant difference to theatre audience numbers. What is the Scottish Government doing to increase and—an important point—maintain audience numbers in venues throughout Scotland?

I hope that we will learn from good examples such as the one that the member mentions. The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning, who is sitting next to me, has indicated what a good example is provided by that project, which she knows well. I would have thought that we will follow those examples. Not every model works, or can work, in every different place but, within the confines that exist, I would certainly want to learn from the Bathgate example on a variety of aspects of good practice. I thank the member for drawing our attention to that.

---

Intergovernmental Organisations (Meetings)

To ask the Scottish Executive what meetings it has had with intergovernmental organisations in the past six months. (S3O-6173)

Ministers and officials have regular meetings with intergovernmental organisations. It is difficult to define what an intergovernmental organisation is, although the member might do so in his supplementary.

Let me give some examples. The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and the Environment, Richard Lochhead, has attended the fisheries council twice in the past few months. Ministers attended various European Councils on 17 to 19 December, 18 to 20 November, 27 to 28 October and 29 September. The Solicitor General for Scotland, Frank Mulholland, has attended the justice and home affairs council. Officials have been involved in meetings with the World Health Organization. The British-Irish Council meetings have been well attended—indeed, in my new role, I attended a meeting of the British-Irish Council along with the First Minister and Deputy First Minister two weeks ago. We have been involved in a range of such meetings, including this week's meeting of the joint ministerial committee, which I think would also qualify.

I am grateful to the minister for that comprehensive reply.

We are all well aware of the split in the Scottish Cabinet on membership of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, which has guaranteed the security of Scotland for the past 60 years. The Deputy First Minister's opposition to NATO is well documented, as is the Cabinet Secretary for Justice's support for the organisation. The Minister for Environment is against NATO, yet the Minister for Culture, External Affairs and the Constitution has openly supported membership of NATO. Does the SNP Government support membership of NATO? Without in any way wishing to bring about such a tragedy, I would like to know whether the Government supports an independent Scotland remaining part of NATO.

I do not accept that the question falls within the responsibility of the Minister for Culture, External Affairs and the Constitution. Therefore, I call question 9.

---

European Union Directives (Transposition)

To ask the Scottish Executive how many EU directives have been transposed into Scots law in the past three months. (S3O-6197)

Just as the Scottish Government is united on the subject of the previous question, we are united on this one.

Since 1 December 2008, a total of four directives have been transposed into Scots law.

I welcome Michael Russell to his first question time as Minister for Culture, External Affairs and the Constitution. I hope that the omission of the word "Europe" from his title is not of any significance.

Will the minister turn his attention to the accelerated procedures under the public procurement directive that were triggered within the past three months by the Commission and Council of Ministers because of the exceptional nature of the current economic situation? Will he explain why the Scottish Government's response to that is so unremittingly negative in tone? The Scottish procurement policy note is almost an exercise in giving reasons not to employ the accelerated procedures.

I think that the member is talking about his interpretation of the policy note rather than the facts of that note. As a Government, we are strongly committed to ensuring that all resources that can be brought forward are brought forward to meet the present difficult circumstances. For example, in advance of next weekend's European Council meeting, discussion is continuing on how the European reflationary package might make available resources that can be focused on real need in Scotland.

The transposition of directives is a complex process that involves a range of issues, including the requirements of Scots law and the requirement to ensure that the directives do not bear down unfairly on Scottish businesses and organisations that are struggling during the recession. If there is any way in which we can ensure that the procurement process benefits Scotland more, members should be under no doubt that we will take that route.

---

Museums and Art Galleries (Glasgow)

In a moment of rare pleasure, I can call question 10.

To ask the Scottish Executive what support it provides to museums and art galleries in Glasgow. (S3O-6196)

In my reply on 5 March to a written parliamentary question from Mr Butler, I gave details of the funding to local authorities for cultural services that is provided by the Scottish Government both through the local government finance settlement and via Museums Galleries Scotland, with which I had a meeting this morning. In addition, I understand that the University of Glasgow was awarded £35,688 this financial year by Museums Galleries Scotland.

I intend to meet Bailie Liz Cameron and her colleagues in Glasgow to discuss the issue that the member has raised. I have made it quite clear that I believe that the issue requires substantive discussion.

The minister is a well-read man. I am sure that he is therefore an avid reader of that fine paper of record, The Evening Times. Does he agree with that paper—and, indeed, with me—that Glasgow's collections are of national and international significance and that a compelling case can be made for direct financial support from the Scottish Government?

I think that everybody acknowledges the quality of Glasgow's collections. Indeed, Museums Galleries Scotland has acknowledged that in making available resources through its special collections fund. There is no doubt that many of the items that are held in Glasgow are of great importance, as are the collections themselves.

It is difficult to draw a direct line between that and the funding of some of the national collections. Nonetheless, as I hope the member accepts, I acknowledge that the issue requires discussion and resolution. I acknowledged that when I was a shadow minister some six years ago, and I acknowledge it now. I intend to start a process of discussion with Glasgow that I hope will lead us forward. It will not be easy, particularly in a time of financial difficulty and recession. That said, not only am I sympathetic to Glasgow on the matter but I admire its collections and what it does with them.

---

Education and Lifelong Learning

---

Student Support (Kilmarnock College)

To ask the Scottish Government what funds it is providing to Kilmarnock College in 2008-09 to support students with child care responsibilities. (S3O-6233)

Kilmarnock College received more than £125,000 in higher education discretionary funds in 2008-09, of which £68,918 was specifically allocated for its higher education child care funds. It also received more than £2.1 million in main allocation for further education student support funds in 2008-09, of which £194,000 was specifically for its further education child care funds. The college then received almost £231,000 in additional further education discretionary funds from the November in-year redistribution process, which represented 4.2 per cent of the total amount of funds that the Scottish Further and Higher Education Funding Council reallocated. Of those funds that were reallocated to the college, £115,466 was specifically for its further education child care fund.

Will the cabinet secretary join me in welcoming the news that Kilmarnock College has provided child care support for all eligible students who require it? Will she confirm that the system of allocating child care support that she inherited is deeply flawed and causes major problems for students and colleges? Has progress been made in persuading the United Kingdom Government to reverse its ill-conceived benefit reforms that place even more pressure on this flawed system?

I am pleased to hear that child care has been provided for all eligible students.

I know that there were some concerns earlier in the year. The current system, which we inherited from the previous Executive, is based on information that is two years old. That is why it is important to have in-year redistribution. I am pleased that that happened at Kilmarnock College to help to support child care places. I have raised the issue of changes to lone parent benefits with the Department for Work and Pensions and sought assurances that lone parents will not be sanctioned under the new system.

Is the cabinet secretary aware than many colleges and universities in Scotland are not offering free child care provision to all students? Does the Scottish Government have any plans to guarantee that all Scottish students have the same rights in that regard as their counterparts in England and Wales, where free child care provision is guaranteed to those who require it?

Child care funding for lone parents in higher education in Scotland is more generous than it is in England. Scottish students are in the positive position of having funding of more than £4,000 in comparison with funding in England of £3,500. Universities are independent, autonomous institutions, as are colleges. They make their own provision for child care and receive supportive funding from the Government.

As I said in my answer to the first question, the in-year redistribution is very important. In the returns that we received from universities, many did not request additional funds to support child care. A number of further education colleges also did not request further funds. For those that made a request, the Scottish funding council not only provided funds but responded promptly to the pressures that many students are facing as a result of the economic recession. Perhaps at some point the Labour Party will take some responsibility for that.

Does the cabinet secretary agree that it is important to target the £30 million that has been made available in reforming support for the most vulnerable students, including those with child care responsibilities, by introducing a mixture of grants and by increasing access to student loans?

I am not sure that the member heard the debate this morning, but if she reads the consultation paper "Supporting a Smarter Scotland", she will see that options 1a, 1b and 3 all cover proposals on targeting resources with which she might find some sympathy. We in the Government will have to take the decisions, but we will listen to the views of everybody who responds to the consultation. I urge Parliament to refrain from passing judgment until consultees have a chance to respond. The closing date for the consultation is 30 April.

---

Teaching (Older Entrants)

To ask the Scottish Executive what measures it is taking to encourage older people to take up teaching as a profession. (S3O-6159)

Widening access to initial teacher education courses, which includes encouraging course providers to offer part-time and distance learning options, is a priority for the Scottish Government. The advice and guidance that is offered to those who are interested in teaching is targeted equally at school leavers, graduates and potential career changers.

The minister will be aware of the issue that is facing some of my constituents. They qualified as teachers in the 1960s and 1970s but, as they qualified in England, they are prevented from teaching in Scotland. They could, of course, work in England or in any other European Union country. Does the minister think that that is acceptable? How does that fit with the European principle of the free movement of workers?

I am happy to discuss the matter further with John Lamont, but I should say that a working group is considering the supply of teachers into Scottish education. It is concentrating much more on the skills that are required for schools, rather than on where the supply of teachers comes from. There are currently discussions about how we secure the effective supply of teachers, and there have been discussions in the past about the fact that some teachers and people in some skill sectors find it difficult to get employment. We are trying to address that, too. As I said, I am happy to discuss further the issue that John Lamont has highlighted.

The minister will be aware of the growing problem that all our newly qualified teachers face in finding a permanent or temporary post, following their probationary year. Is the minister also aware that the average age profile of entrants into the teaching profession is rising, and that many new entrants have mortgages, families and other commitments that might make them less able to move freely around the country? What specific action is the minister taking to help those newly qualified teachers to find a permanent or temporary post following their probationary year?

As I have mentioned previously, the annual workforce planning is based on maintaining teacher numbers at 2007 levels, I think, and the concordat that we have signed with local government confirms that funding is included in the settlement for that to happen. We are confident that local authorities, which are the employers of teachers, are equally committed to the terms of the concordat.

Kenneth Macintosh is right about the demographic trends within teaching. Entrants who were over the age of 30 comprised 25.7 per cent of entrants in 2006-07, 27.2 per cent in 2007-08 and 25.7 per cent in 2008-09, and roughly 10 per cent of entrants each year were over the age of 40. We are trying to address the issue of secure permanent employment. It is not easy to address the point that Kenneth Macintosh raised about teachers being less mobile, but we are aware of it and we are addressing it through the working group that I mentioned.

---

Glasgow City Council Education Department (Meetings)

To ask the Scottish Government when the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning last met Glasgow City Council education department and what issues were discussed. (S3O-6243)

Officials from the Scottish Government regularly meet officials from Glasgow City Council on a range of issues related to the provision of education in the city. Recently, there have been meetings regarding the implementation of 16+ learning choices, enterprise in education and support for Glasgow's schools of ambition. I had the pleasure of visiting Govan high school, Castlemilk high school and St Paul's high school this week. An official from Glasgow City Council took part in two of those visits.

Glasgow City Council has decided to press ahead with the closure of 25 primary and nursery schools despite, as we saw in the demonstration outside today, overwhelming opposition among parents and Scottish National Party councillors' objections to the inadequate consultation. Does the cabinet secretary agree that the council should apply the proposed list of mandatory consultees in the Schools (Consultation) (Scotland) Bill, which includes pupils and teachers?

Yes. It would not be unreasonable for the public to expect the council to do so, particularly in view of its response to our consultation paper last year on the proposal to extend the list of those who should be consulted, in which it said:

"GCC agree that children and young people should be consulted. However, younger children would need to be supported and clear guidance would be required to ensure it is the views of the children that are reflected."

The council did not comment either way on the proposal to extend the list to include teachers and other staff.

The leader of Glasgow City Council advises me that he would be willing to postpone his plans under the school estate strategy if the Government was willing to provide additional funding to allow new schools to be built. Will the cabinet secretary make representations to Mr Swinney, the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth, to allow for a new school building programme of the kind that took place under the previous Scottish Government?

This year alone, Glasgow City Council has received £196 million in capital funding. It is up to the council to choose whether to use that for refurbishment and capital spend on schools. Other local authorities are doing so. Those who are protesting today might rightly ask why Glasgow City Council is not spending it on schools.

The funding that the Government is providing for 1,000 of the apprenticeships that Steven Purcell wants to provide in Glasgow will free up £6 million over the next few years that would otherwise have been used for those apprenticeships. Perhaps Mr Purcell will want to invest that money in schools.

Is the cabinet secretary aware of the challenges that face teachers of English as an additional language in Glasgow? Over three years in which an additional 3,000 to 4,000 foreign national children came into Glasgow schools, the number of such teachers dropped from 165 to 140. Does the cabinet secretary agree that, unless Glasgow City Council increases the number of EAL teachers, many children will simply slip through the net and be unable to fulfil their academic potential?

That issue has been raised a number of times and Anne McLaughlin is right to raise it again. The Government is providing record levels of funding for local government but is conscious of the pressures that local authorities face. The 2008 teacher census, which will provide the number of teachers in each local authority, will be published in the next few weeks, and will reflect the numbers that are employed by Glasgow City Council.

There are clearly challenges in Glasgow, and I encourage everybody involved to help to support the council in delivering additional support for learning for children with English as a second language. That is one of the reasons why we provided funding for the Scottish Further and Higher Education Funding Council to assist with family learning for speakers of other languages who are learning English.

---

Primary School Kitchens (Argyll and Bute)

To ask the Scottish Executive what recent contact or discussions it has had with parent councils in Argyll and Bute concerning the possible closure of primary school kitchens. (S3O-6165)

The Scottish Government has had no contact or discussions with parent councils in Argyll and Bute concerning the possible closure of primary school kitchens. However, I understand that Argyll and Bute Council has now taken a decision not to close the primary school kitchens concerned.

I welcome the fact that, since my question was lodged and after a determined campaign by parent councils, which I supported, Argyll and Bute Council has withdrawn its decision to close six rural primary school kitchens, including those at Glenbarr, Skipness and Rhunahaorine. Does the minister share my concern that the dinner ladies first learned of the threat by reading the local press? Does he agree that the provision of healthy and nutritious school meals for our primary school children is an important priority for local authorities?

Of course I agree with Jamie McGrigor's point on the benefits that children can derive from nutritious school meals. Clearly, he needs to take his former point up with Argyll and Bute Council.

I emphasise that there was no question of the council deciding to close the kitchens because of a lack of a funding, as it has significant funds through the local government finance settlement. However, there is apparently an historical problem in Argyll and Bute with recruiting catering staff for some small schools in outlying rural areas. Perhaps Jamie McGrigor can take that up with the council.

---

Apprenticeships

To ask the Scottish Government what measures it intends to take to expand apprenticeship opportunities. (S3O-6217)

I have already announced that Glasgow will be offered funding over three years for an additional 1,000 new modern apprenticeship places worth £6 million, and I recently announced 50 new modern apprenticeships in Scotland's creative industries in 2009-10. Those early decisions are in direct response to the additional skills needs for Glasgow as set out in the early Commonwealth games planning and the evidence in the recent creative blueprint for Scotland. In addition, I intend to use the apprenticeship summit to explore with employers how the modern apprenticeship programme and its development can best support employment opportunities in Scotland as part of our economic recovery planning and beyond.

I have started discussions with major employers on approaches to deliver the 73 per cent increase in new starts for 2009-10. I have already met Jim McColl of Clyde Blowers and I plan to meet others such as Scottish and Southern Energy.

I hope that the cabinet secretary will meet Michael Levack, chief executive of the Scottish Building Federation, and note his support for the proposal that every Scottish Government contract should be required to recruit apprenticeships. Does that proposal have the support of the cabinet secretary or the Scottish Government?

It is important that, in public procurement, all agencies of Government and, indeed, local government use whatever measures they can to benefit the public and the common good. Particularly at this time, all those who receive taxpayers' money must use and invest it responsibly to ensure that we maintain skills in areas such as construction so that, when we come through the recession, the jobs and skills are in place to take the country forward.

---

Knife Crime (Schools)

To ask the Scottish Executive what its schools directorate is doing to prevent knife crimes in schools. (S3O-6177)

Knife crime in schools, while extremely serious, is extremely rare and the vast majority of children and young people in our schools behave well. The schools directorate works with a wide range of partners, both within and outwith the Scottish Government, to create peaceful and positive learning environments in Scottish schools. That work includes the Government-funded violence reduction unit, which promotes programmes and resources in schools on the dangers of knife carrying as part of its anti-violence campaign, and a youth conference that the Government hosted on 4 March to address violence and knife crime.

Given that, it was all the more poignant when, last week, a young lad in my region in Ayr was, sadly, taken to hospital with a stab wound that he received at school.

The initiatives are welcome, but does the minister agree that the best and most productive projects are those that young people lead and which focus on active engagement, as opposed to current initiatives, which concentrate on promotional material? Does he agree that young people desperately need local facilities that can be used to divert them from knife and other crime? How will the minister ensure that communities are provided with facilities for young people, to run alongside current initiatives?

I cannot comment on the case to which Jim Hume referred, which is now the subject of investigation by South Ayrshire Council. However, I repeat that such serious incidents are extremely rare and the vast majority of children behave very well in our schools.

I accept Jim Hume's point about the need for engagement. At the conference to which I referred, the Cabinet Secretary for Justice launched the Government's new knife crime youth engagement initiative, which commits an additional £500,000 to working with young people to prevent and reduce knife crime, under the new brand "No Knives Better Lives". It will be delivered in schools and the community and over the internet, using a range of communication tools.

On Jim Hume's final point about facilities, I agree that the Scottish Government should do what it can, and it is doing that through the renewal of the school estate. However, the provision of facilities is also a question for other organisations, including local authorities.

Richard Baker can ask a very brief supplementary question.

Given the concerning incidents of pupils being found with knives in a number of schools, is it not vital to have a clear picture of the extent of the problem? Why have I been told that the Scottish Government does not hold centrally the number of such incidents and that it has no plans to do so? Does the minister agree that such data should be collected to inform the action that we all want to be taken on this important issue? Knife crime in schools might be rare, but we should know whether it is.

I ask the minister to give an equally brief response.

The behaviour in Scottish schools survey is now under way and will report later this year. The Government, working in partnership with local government and other key stakeholders, has improved that three-yearly survey, which will provide greater clarity on the definitions and experience of serious indiscipline and violence in schools. In addition, the sample size has been nearly doubled to provide more accurate data. That will help to address Richard Baker's point about having clear information in order to determine the size of the problem.