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Chamber and committees

Plenary, 11 Dec 2008

Meeting date: Thursday, December 11, 2008


Contents


Question Time


SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE


General Questions


Scots Language

1. Bill Wilson (West of Scotland) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will make representations at European level in favour of extending to the Scots language the provisions of part III of the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages that apply to the Welsh, Gaelic and Irish languages. (S3O-5229)

The Minister for Europe, External Affairs and Culture (Linda Fabiani):

I should first clarify a point of procedure. The Scottish Government would in the first instance be required to satisfy the United Kingdom Government of its ability to implement specified additional undertakings with regard to extending part III coverage to Scots before the UK Government made any referral in that respect to the Council of Europe. Any additional measures of support for the Scots language to be ratified by the UK Government would likely have to be in place at the time of ratification. I think, therefore, that the right thing to do just now is to ensure that, as a minimum, the undertakings that have already been ratified in respect of Scots in part II of the charter are being fulfilled in the best possible manner.

Bill Wilson:

In light of that response, I highlight a complaint that I recently received from a constituent about the Department for Work and Pensions providing material in Welsh, but not in Scots and Gaelic. The DWP has informed me that it provides material in Welsh because of obligations under the Welsh Language Act 1993 and that no similar provision exists for Scots or Gaelic. Will the minister consider making representations to the UK Government on ensuring that Scots and Gaelic have equal status with Welsh and English?

Linda Fabiani:

I am concerned by the case that Mr Wilson has highlighted, given that all those who sign up to the charter have a responsibility for ensuring that these matters are progressed. I am happy to meet Mr Wilson to find out more about the case so that we can indeed make representations to the UK Government.


Banks (Small Business Loans)

2. Bill Kidd (Glasgow) (SNP):

To ask the Scottish Government what discussions it has had with banks over any reluctance to co-operate with small innovative companies that are in receipt of Government funding but are unable to gain match funding, despite the Scottish Government guaranteeing 75 per cent of any loan via the small firms loan guarantee scheme. (S3O-5218)

The Minister for Enterprise, Energy and Tourism (Jim Mather):

The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth has written to the Scottish clearing banks to encourage them to utilise all available sources of funding, including, where appropriate, participation in the United Kingdom-wide small firms loan guarantee scheme, which is the UK Government's principal intervention in the debt market via approved lenders, mainly banks. The cabinet secretary plans to meet the Scottish clearing banks to explore how the Scottish Government and the banking sector can work together more closely in this period. We also welcome the positive moves made by some Scottish banks to access the substantial additional resources available from the European Investment Bank to support business customers.

What further actions will the Scottish Government take to support small and medium-sized enterprises in what are, regardless of Gordon Brown's arrogant assertions, undoubtedly difficult times for all?

Jim Mather:

We are already doing a number of things. For example, Government is managing with more flexibility regional selective assistance for proposals with good business prospects to increase the banks' propensity to lend. In addition, not only has there been strong progress on the early payments programme with a higher and higher proportion of invoices being paid within 10 days, but there has been sound progress on public sector procurement with 14,000 businesses registering on the recently opened public contracts Scotland portal. The procurement data that are being published are giving SMEs and innovative companies a clear indication of the buying patterns of public sector entities, the SME—and Scottish SME—share of that activity and so on. Finally, I point out that the full 100 per cent small business bonus will come on stream in April.

Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green):

Given that a number of small businesses are finding it hard to access the support that the Scottish Government and the United Kingdom Government offer because of the difficulty in securing even very small loans from the commercial banks, and given that we are seeing another wave of mergers so that there will be a small number of megabanks instead of a diverse range of more traditional financial institutions, is it not time for the Scottish Government to lead discussions on the creation of new financial institutions for Scotland that can exist on a more sustainable basis, provide small loans and allow small businesses to support one another in the same way that communities support one another through institutions such as credit unions?

Jim Mather:

Essentially, the Bank of Scotland was formed in the coffee shops of Edinburgh in 1695. I welcome the recent visit here by Muhammad Yunus of Grameen Bank and the conversations that he has had in Scotland about what might be done particularly to support further social enterprise activity, to which the Government is committed. We are having open conversations with all the sectors in Scotland and with Scottish Financial Enterprise to encourage as much innovative activity here as possible.


St Margaret of Scotland Hospice

To ask the Scottish Executive what assistance it will give to St Margaret of Scotland hospice to allow it to continue to provide services to palliative and continuing care patients. (S3O-5193)

The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing (Nicola Sturgeon):

NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde is responsible for planning the provision of national health service services for the population that it covers, and St Margaret's receives NHS funding for the particular services that it provides. The Scottish Government continues to encourage both organisations to discuss options for future service provision in addition to the highly regarded palliative and end-of-life care services that St Margaret's provides that are unaffected by the current proposals. We hope that there will be a resolution without undue delay that meets the needs of the local population and allows St Margaret's to continue to do its work

Des McNulty:

It is clear that the continuing care services that St Margaret's provides are needed and that the care that is currently provided for the category of patients in question is excellent, so why is Greater Glasgow and Clyde NHS Board so resistant to allowing that care to continue on the St Margaret's site?

Nicola Sturgeon:

The decision on the reduced requirement for continuing care beds in Glasgow was, of course, taken some time ago by a joint committee of NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde and Glasgow City Council. All along, NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde has made it clear that it wants to continue to support St Margaret's, which is why it has engaged in discussions on options for future service provision. I understand that St Margaret's has said that it has considered and rejected two options that NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde has put forward, which is disappointing, but NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde must reflect on that. In doing so, it must fully consider St Margaret's proposal and then decide what the best way forward is in the interests of everybody concerned.

As I said when we discussed the issue last week, I value the service that St Margaret of Scotland hospice provides, as does NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde, but like any statutory agency that commissions services from the voluntary sector, NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde must ensure that those services align with the needs of the population that it covers. NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde is involved in a process, which I hope will reach a quick resolution.

The cabinet secretary knows about my interest in palliative care. Is she as surprised as I am by the new-found concerns that Labour MSPs such as Des McNulty are expressing? Will she remind us exactly when the decision in question was taken?

That is shocking.

Nicola Sturgeon:

Roseanna Cunningham should be treated seriously, given her concerns about palliative care. She has expressed an intention to introduce a member's bill that covers that extremely serious issue.

Roseanna Cunningham raises a central and fundamental issue. We are dealing with the implementation of a decision that was taken by a joint community care committee of Greater Glasgow and Clyde NHS Board and Glasgow City Council. There was a reduced requirement across the city for continuing care beds because of reduced demand for them. To answer Roseanna Cunningham's question directly, the decision in question was taken in 2005—in other words, under the previous Administration. Like her, I struggle to recall Des McNulty expressing objections at that time.

Dr Simpson:

The amount of nonsense that is being talked is simply ludicrous. That Roseanna Cunningham should say that my colleague Des McNulty has not been involved in the process is unacceptable—he has been involved in it from the outset.

We agree that there is a need to refine the number of continuing care beds in Glasgow—there is no problem with that—but Greater Glasgow and Clyde NHS Board is going to replace the continuing care beds at St Margaret's with similar provision at Blawarthill hospital. Thus, it will condemn St Margaret's to being ineffective and inefficient and it is likely that the hospice will close. Will the cabinet secretary intervene in the process and ensure that St Margaret of Scotland hospice is maintained so that it provides a good and effective care programme for the community?

Nicola Sturgeon:

Richard Simpson is right in one respect: a lot of nonsense has been spoken in the chamber on the issue. Unfortunately, however, the nonsense is coming from the Opposition.

Let me make one or two things clear. First, the future of St Margaret of Scotland hospice is not in doubt. Those who suggest that the provision of palliative and end-of-life care services at St Margaret's is somehow being jeopardised by NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde are not doing a disservice to me; rather, they are doing a disservice to the population that depends on those services. That is disgraceful.

Secondly, there is a duty on NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde to ensure that it provides services that the population that it serves needs. NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde is involved in a process with the board of St Margaret of Scotland hospice. It would be better for all members who have a genuine interest in the matter to encourage both sides—not only one side—to stay around the table and reach a solution that meets the needs of all concerned. If we all do that, a solution might not be too far away.

Des McNulty:

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Roseanna Cunningham made an accusation that I had not previously taken an interest in the matter. There is a considerable audit trail of work that I have done in asking questions about the process under the previous Government as well as under the current Government. I ask Roseanna Cunningham to withdraw what she said.

The member will be aware that that is not a point of order. However, the member whom he mentions might want to consider what he said. By raising a point of order, he has put his view on the record.


Rural Schools

To ask the Scottish Government what importance it attaches to the role of rural schools. (S3O-5208)

The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Fiona Hyslop):

We attach a great deal of importance to the role of rural schools and recognise their significance within their local communities. That is why early next year we will introduce a bill to safeguard our rural schools and improve the way in which all school closure proposals are consulted on and handled.

Aileen Campbell:

The minister may be aware of proposals to merge rural schools in Clydesdale's upper ward in the South of Scotland region, which I represent. Many parents have expressed concerns to me about how those proposals are being handled. Does the minister agree that local authorities that seek to alter rural school arrangements should fully consult in the way that she says they should—in the most open and transparent manner possible—so that Chinese whispers and rumours do not unnecessarily scare parents in rural communities about the future of their schools?

Fiona Hyslop:

I am aware that South Lanarkshire Council is informally considering possible future options for schools in the Clydesdale part of its area, and my understanding is that things are being done entirely openly with parent councils. If—and I stress the word "if"—the council were to decide at some stage in the future that it wished to consult officially on proposed changes to the current arrangements, a full, open and transparent public consultation process in accordance with the current statutory requirements would be conducted, which would allow all interested parties ample opportunity to give their views.

Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):

The minister will be aware of serious concerns that parents groups have expressed about the nature of some consultations by local councils in advance of proposed closures. It has been said that consultations are often slanted, unbalanced and full of leading questions. In the proposed legislation, will the minister address the need to improve the quality of such consultations?

Fiona Hyslop:

I thank Murdo Fraser for his continuing interest in the issue.

The bill that I mentioned will be aimed at improving the consultation process, including the process at the start of consultations, and ensuring that if any concerns exist about the information that a council provides, there are opportunities right at the beginning of the process for that information to be corrected and shared with parents.

There is cross-party support for the retention and, indeed, the strengthening of the rural schools network, which I know benefits my constituency. [Interruption.] I ask members to pay attention. [Interruption.]

Order.

Jeremy Purvis:

Does the cabinet secretary understand that councils that offer a rural schools network require additional support to help with the additional costs of providing it? Does she accept that there must be recognition that local authorities need to be properly supported to implement policies that come down from the Parliament, such as free school meals? Scottish Borders Council is already experiencing pressures in that regard.

Fiona Hyslop:

The bill that we will introduce is intended to maintain existing rural schools, which should not cost any more to do than it does under the current settlement. The allocation of grant-aided expenditure already takes account of rurality—that is reflected in the settlement that rural areas receive.

I welcome the Liberal Democrats' support for improving consultation on rural school closures and I look forward to hearing their constructive suggestions when the bill is introduced.


Teacher Numbers

To ask the Scottish Executive what its target number of teachers is for 2008-09 and 2009-10. (S3O-5232)

Under the terms of the concordat, local government agreed that it was funded to maintain teacher numbers broadly at 2007 levels despite falling school rolls, and our planning assumptions are that it will do so.

Robert Brown:

I am grateful for the cabinet secretary's reply, but she will be aware that a report that the General Teaching Council for Scotland published yesterday reveals that only 31 per cent of newly qualified staff have found a permanent post this year and that 700 probationary teachers—an extraordinary number—who qualified this summer have no job in teaching, either full time or supply.

In its target figures for next year, what account has been taken by the Scottish National Party Government of its lamentable failure this year to find employment for all those teachers who have already been trained? Does the cabinet secretary agree that the situation represents a horrendous waste of public resource and individual aspiration?

Very briefly, Mr Brown.

Does she also agree that blaming the local authorities for a nationwide problem is pretty shoddy? As the responsible minister, what does she intend to do about it?

Fiona Hyslop:

The member posed a variety of questions. His initial question was about the target number of teachers, but this year's situation is a result of planning that was done, and decisions that were made, by his Government two years ago. Quite clearly, a number of today's post-probation teachers were recruited as a result of decisions by the previous Government. That is one reason why I set up the teacher employment working group. A series of recommendations has been made.

It is absolutely correct to identify the need to ensure more permanent employment, particularly for primary school teachers, but 79 per cent of post-probationers are employed in teaching. We need to work to improve that situation, but it is not helpful when some local authorities do not maintain teacher numbers at 2007 levels, even though they have been provided with the resources to do so.


Money Advice and Advocacy Services

To ask the Scottish Government what action is being taken to meet the increasing demand for money advice and advocacy services. (S3O-5191)

The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth (John Swinney):

The Scottish Government is taking a range of actions to support those who need money advice and advocacy services in these challenging economic times. Those measures include providing £3 million for legal advice and representation for people who face repossession and other debt problems; funding a £400,000 awareness-raising campaign for the national debtline to encourage people to take early action to address debt problems; and providing an extra sum of around £1 million over three years, from Barnett consequentials arising from the pre-budget report, to expand face-to-face advice capacity.

Duncan McNeil:

I thank the cabinet secretary for his answer and welcome the fact that additional funding from consequentials will be made available; I am sure that he will agree that it is certainly required.

On a visit to my local money advice centre, I found that, year on year, the number of inquiries is up by 100 per cent, the amount of mortgage debt is up by 104 per cent and the number of people who present with debt on secured loans and who are therefore likely to face repossession is up by 371 per cent. How will the cabinet secretary guarantee that my constituency will get its fair share of the money available to meet the need for money advice?

John Swinney:

People face economic difficulties and challenges and that is why this Government has taken action to support them. We encourage the United Kingdom Government, which has responsibility for macroeconomic policy, to do likewise.

On 8 December, in consort with the Department for Work and Pensions, the Scottish Government launched the financial inclusion champions Scotland initiative in Greenock, in Mr McNeil's constituency. Greenock is centre stage on this and many other occasions. I assure Mr McNeil that the seriousness of the issues that he raises is well understood by ministers. As I indicated, we will be providing support to assist individuals who face financial difficulties with appropriate and effective advice.