Plenary, 08 Nov 2007

Meeting date: Thursday, November 8, 2007

Official Report 718KB pdf

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First Minister's Question Time

Questions to the First Minister will be answered by the Deputy First Minister.

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Engagements

To ask the First Minister what engagements he has planned for the rest of the day. (S3F-248)

I welcome the Deputy First Minister to her place and I pass on the best wishes of members in this part of the chamber to the First Minister and the entire Glasgow Commonwealth games delegation in Sri Lanka. The whole Parliament is right behind Glasgow's bid, which is great for the city and for Scotland. [Applause.]

I thank Wendy Alexander for her remarks. Later today I will attend the Daily Record health awards to honour all those who work so hard in our national health service, and the First Minister will attend the opening ceremony of the Commonwealth Games Federation's general assembly in Sri Lanka. I know that the whole Parliament echoes Wendy Alexander's comments and wishes the First Minister and the entire bid team the best of luck for tomorrow's vote. [Applause.]

I associate myself with those comments.

Next week's budget will see Scottish spending increase to nearly £30 billion, which will be its highest ever level. With that record amount of money, will the SNP make good its promise on police numbers? Does the Deputy First Minister agree or disagree with the comments of Alasdair Gillies of the Scottish Police Federation, who said that the additional police officers should be

"new officers, not reconditioned, rehashed, second hand, slightly used, but new"?

I remind Wendy Alexander that the comprehensive spending review settlement is the worst settlement for Scotland since devolution. Back in 2004, the increase to the Scottish budget was 11.5 per cent. Next year, the increase in the Scottish budget will be 0.5 per cent.

Stop whingeing. What about the real growth?

Mr Foulkes!

That is the fiscal reality in which the Government operates.

I assure Wendy Alexander that, within that tight financial settlement, the Government, unlike the previous Government, will deliver on the promises that it made to the people of Scotland. I assure her that the Government will deliver 1,000 more officers on the streets and in the communities of Scotland. That will be a promise kept by the Government.

I take this opportunity to endorse the Scottish Police Federation's comment that when only 7 per cent of police officers in this country are on operational duty at any one time, it is time to ensure that we get them out from behind their desks and on to the streets of Scotland to make our country safer.

The Deputy First Minister has at least taken some lessons from her master's voice, with an attack as well as an answer. She knows perfectly well that the budget has doubled in a decade. It is more than Donald Dewar ever had as Secretary of State for Scotland. It is 99 per cent of what the SNP predicted, and there was £900 million on top of that as a windfall.

The real difference between Labour and the SNP is that we delivered whereas it does not. I remind Ms Sturgeon that, in coalition, Labour trained not 1,000 but more than 4,000 new police recruits. We increased civilian staff by 60 per cent to free up police officers for our streets, and we delivered more than 1,500 extra police officers.

This morning, Alex Neil offered a new definition of extra police: he said that any officer not now retiring will be counted as a new officer. How can the SNP possibly suggest that an officer with 20 years' experience counts as a new police officer?

That question prompts another question. [Interruption.] I will answer Wendy Alexander's question, but if Labour's record on police numbers was as good as she says, why are only 7 per cent of police officers on operational duty at any one time? Why does every community in the country think that there are not enough police on the beat and why do people not feel safe in their own communities?

I do not know how many times—[Interruption.]

Order.

I do not know how many times Wendy Alexander needs to hear the same answer to the same question, but let me give her it one more time. This SNP Government will deliver 1,000 more police officers on the streets of Scotland, where they are needed. That was our commitment, that is what we will deliver, and that is what the people of Scotland will hold us to account on.

The Deputy First Minister asked for an answer. The answer is 4,000 new police recruits, an increase of 60 per cent in civilian staff and 1,500 extra police officers.

Just last week, in a parliamentary answer to Hugh Henry, the Cabinet Secretary for Justice said:

"The Scottish Government has not set a numerical target for the number of police officers that forces should employ."—[Official Report, Written Answers, 29 October 2007; S3W-5268 .]

The Deputy First Minister says one thing, Alex Salmond says another, Kenny MacAskill says a third, and Alex Neil this morning suggests something else. Who on earth are the public to believe?

Wendy Alexander really is flailing about. Everybody who is watching this exchange will be wondering, "If Labour really recruited all these extra police officers, where are they?" They are not on the streets of this country.

I will make it clear, yet again, to Wendy Alexander: the Government will deliver on our commitment to put 1,000 extra police officers on the streets of Scotland. We will recruit new police officers and we will retain police officers. We will also redeploy police officers, out from behind desks and on to the streets of Scotland, where the people of this country want them to be.

I think that we must take it from that answer that a police officer with 20 years' experience is to be counted as a new officer. I suggest to Ms Sturgeon that she might recall these words:

"With the SNP what we promise is what you will get. No ifs, no buts, no cover ups, no lies."

Those were Ms Sturgeon's words at her party's conference in 2005.

The Deputy First Minister knows, we know, the Scottish Police Federation knows, the public knows and even the Deputy First Minister's colleagues know that the SNP has no intention of keeping its manifesto promise of 1,000 more police. Is it any wonder, with that kind of wriggling, that the SNP is running so scared of debates? Will the Deputy First Minister do the decent thing and admit that the SNP will not keep its manifesto promise of 1,000 more police?

I will give Wendy Alexander some friendly advice. I spent some time asking the questions from where she now sits. One lesson that I learned early on was that when someone gets the answer to their first question the first time they ask it, they should think of a new question rather than keep asking the same one.

Police officers around the country will be wondering why she is so dismissive of people with 20 years' police experience. I would have thought that that is exactly the experience that we want to keep in our police forces.

I stand by everything I said in the chamber when I was in Wendy Alexander's position. What we promised to the people of Scotland is what they will get. We promised 1,000 more officers on the streets of Scotland and that is exactly what the Government will deliver.

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Secretary of State for Scotland (Meetings)

I, too, welcome the Deputy First Minister to her place and entirely endorse the comments that she and Wendy Alexander have made about the Commonwealth games bid.

To ask the First Minister when he will next meet the Secretary of State for Scotland. (S3F-249)

The First Minister has no immediate plans to meet the Secretary of State for Scotland.

I am very interested in the Deputy First Minister's concluding observation to Ms Alexander. I remind the Deputy First Minister that, in the chamber in December last year, she said:

"The SNP is absolutely clear that we will freeze council tax".—[Official Report, 14 December 2006; c 30530.]

Statements do not come any clearer or more absolute than that.

The Scottish Conservatives proposed a 50 per cent council tax cut for all pensioners aged 65 and over in Scotland. That pledge was fully costed, guaranteed and deliverable by Government. Is the SNP pledge fully costed? How is it deliverable by Government? In other words, how is it guaranteed at all? How could Ms Sturgeon be absolutely clear a year ago that she would freeze council tax? How could she give that guarantee?

I thank Annabel Goldie for her welcome. Not only did I give that guarantee a year ago, I will say the same thing today: this Government is determined to freeze council tax. Under the previous Government, council tax went up by 60 per cent. The people of Scotland have had enough of council tax rises under Labour and the Liberals. That is why they want the Government to freeze council tax. The policy is fully costed. Later this afternoon, the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth will continue the very constructive discussions with local government to ensure that the commitment is delivered to the people of Scotland.

Here we go again. I have never doubted that the Deputy First Minister is a determined woman—heaven knows, we have seen evidence of that in all directions—but I just wish that her energies were better directed at times. She may be determined, but that is not the same as a guarantee. The SNP was clear and strident in opposition but, given the keys of government, it has ducked and dived and bobbed and weaved and broken its pledges one after another. Whether on police numbers or class sizes, on student debt or council tax, it seemed that the SNP would do anything and say anything just to get its hands on power. Is the Deputy First Minister's manifesto commitment a Government-guaranteed pledge or is it—like so much else—just a vague aspiration, full of ifs, buts and maybes?

I can tell Annabel Goldie that the real story of the past six months of this SNP Government is of promises delivered. Promises to save accident and emergency units have been delivered. Promises to abolish the back-door tuition fee have been made good. Promises to abolish the tolls on the Tay and Forth bridges have been delivered. Our pledge to freeze council tax will also be delivered. In just six days' time, when we publish our budget, all the waiting will be over and all the other parties in the Parliament will see exactly how we intend to honour that commitment.

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Cabinet (Meetings)

I wish the Glasgow Commonwealth games bid all the very best.

To ask the First Minister what issues will be discussed at the next meeting of the Cabinet. (S3F-250)

The next meeting of the Cabinet will discuss issues of importance to the people of Scotland.

I, too, welcome the Deputy First Minister to her position today. It does not seem long ago that our roles were reversed, when she asked me questions for the first time at First Minister's question time. In fact, that was on 27 October 2005, when she asked me this question:

"Does the Deputy First Minister think that there are enough police officers in Scotland?"

In my reply I said that we were only halfway through the parliamentary session, but that we had already recruited 700 new, additional, extra police officers in Scotland. She said that that was not good enough. I ask her exactly the same question that she asked me: are there enough police officers in Scotland?

No, there are not enough police officers on the streets of Scotland, which is why this Government will put 1,000 more police officers on the streets of Scotland: that is where the people of Scotland want them to be, making our streets and communities safer. Next week, the Cabinet Secretary for Justice will announce plans to recruit new officers to Scotland. Even if that is not welcomed in the chamber, I am sure that it will be warmly welcomed by people around the country.

For all that bluster, members will never guess what Nicola Sturgeon asked me next:

"Has he forgotten that his party's Scottish manifesto, which was produced in May, said that we need 1,000 more police officers than we currently have, or is that just another policy principle that he leaves outside the Cabinet room?"—[Official Report, 27 October 2005; c 20091.]

That was Nicola Sturgeon's view in opposition: 1,000 new police. The Association of Chief Police Officers, the Scottish Police Federation and others agree, and it is what the Parliament wants, too. What is stopping her?

Since May, Kenny MacAskill has flipped and does not now support 1,000 new police. His First Minister has flipped and does not now support 1,000 extra police, but Nicola Sturgeon's personal promise on the record was stronger, clearer and more adamant than either of theirs. Will she stand up for her personal pledge? Will she stand up for the police and local communities and deliver 1,000 new police, or will she flip as well?

We all know who has flipped, and flopped, and flipped again, and it is not Kenny MacAskill. Those words were invented to describe the Liberal Democrats.

When I asked Nicol Stephen that question, he had already been in office for five long years and he had delivered absolutely nothing. Within the first few months of this new, SNP Government, the justice secretary will announce plans to recruit additional police officers—plans that will be welcomed around the country. This Government will deliver on the commitment I made, the commitment we made at the election, and the commitment we have made ever since, to put 1,000 more police officers on the streets of Scotland.

The Deputy First Minister will be aware of the closure of the A83 lifeline road to Argyll and Kintyre due to a landslide 12 days ago near the Rest and be Thankful. Is she aware of the disastrous financial consequences to businesses in Cairndow, Inverary and Strachur, that people cannot get to work, and that workers are now being laid off? Is she aware of the thousands of pounds per day that the closure is costing haulage businesses? Is she aware of the number of road accidents that the diversions have caused? Why was no action taken on the 2005 report, which identified the road as being at high risk of landslide? When will the A83 be open to traffic again?

Jamie McGrigor asks a very serious question. We fully appreciate the disruption and impact on businesses in mid-Argyll due to the road closure. The transport minister visited the site on Monday. Measures have already been taken temporarily to stabilise the area below the road and work commenced on Monday afternoon to remove the unstable ground above the road. Unfortunately, that work had to be suspended yesterday due to the high winds. I understand that there is currently an assessment under way to determine whether it is safe for the work to restart.

I am sure that members will understand and agree that the road can be opened only when it is safe to do so. Due to adverse weather and the unstable material well above the road, it is not possible to give an exact estimate of when the road might be opened, but we will do everything possible to expedite that and, of course, we will keep local MSPs and local businesses fully informed of developments.

Will the Deputy First Minister join my constituents in looking forward to hosting the 2014 Commonwealth games triathlon in Strathclyde Park in my constituency? It is clear that Manchester showed in 2002 how to leave a lasting legacy of facilities and confidence from the games. Our bid in Melbourne in 2006 demonstrated that Glasgow is the best place for the 2014 games and that Scots can win in the swimming pool and elsewhere. Hosting the Commonwealth games will transform Glasgow and benefit all Scotland. Will the Deputy First Minister pass our thanks to the team who have helped install Glasgow in pole position and pass my best wishes and good luck to all those involved in this week's final effort? For the future of Glasgow and Scotland, and for sport, we hope that they bring the games to Glasgow.

I thank Jack McConnell very much for that question. Given our history at First Minister's questions, I suppose I should be grateful that he did not take the opportunity to get some of his own back.

I agree with him 100 per cent about the long-term, lasting benefits that the Commonwealth games will bring to Glasgow and Scotland. I will pass on his personal good wishes to the First Minister and the rest of the team.

I take this opportunity to pay tribute to Jack McConnell for the work that he did as First Minister to ensure that the bid we have taken to Sri Lanka is simply first class. It has been a privilege for the new Government to pick up the baton for the last lap. I know that the First Minister would want me to say that, if we are successful tomorrow, it will be in no small measure down to the commitment shown by Jack McConnell. I want to thank him genuinely for that. [Applause.]

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Town and Village Centres (Growth)

To ask the Deputy First Minister whether the Scottish Government has any plans to encourage the growth of town and village centres, in light of the challenges faced by high street businesses throughout Scotland. (S3F-253)

The Government has made clear its commitment to increasing sustainable economic growth across the whole of Scotland, including in our town and village centres.

I thank the Deputy First Minister for her response. Is she aware of a recent report that indicates that between now and 2011 only one in 10 new shops will open on Scotland's high streets—that is, 90 per cent of all planned retail developments will be out of town? She may know that I now have the dubious honour of representing Scotland's new "Tesco town"—Perth—but I also represent, of course, many small towns and villages whose high streets are under huge threat. Will she indicate how the Government can help to provide those town centres with the level playing field that they need in order to begin to turn things round? Will she take into consideration the huge advantage of the free parking that is available to out-of-town centres compared with our high streets? That situation not only creates an economic imbalance but has environmental implications.

I thank Roseanna Cunningham for that question. I am of course aware of the report from the Association of Town Centre Management and I agree with her that it is of great concern. I also agree that we need to breathe life back into our town centres. I will say a word or two about some of the things that we are doing that I hope will contribute to that process.

Planning policy has a role to play. Scottish planning policy 8 reinforces the role of town centres as locations for retail and indicates clearly that town centres should be the first choice for shopping and related developments. In addition, the Government will shortly publish proposals to remove or reduce the burden of business rates for a substantial number of small businesses across Scotland, thus supporting small businesses in town centres. Those proposals will help the smallest businesses, many of which are located in town centres. I think that that will have a very positive impact indeed.

I assure Roseanna Cunningham that the Government will look closely at her proposal about car parking.

What action will the Scottish National Party Government take to encourage small towns, including Dunfermline, to develop the business improvement districts scheme, after the recent pilot, to ensure that Dunfermline and other towns can grow and prosper?

The legislative framework is now in place to allow local businesses in any area to establish, in partnership with their local authority and other local partners, a business improvement district if they think that doing so would benefit their area. That is very much a matter for those businesses in engaging with partners in local areas. If an appetite for such an approach exists in the member's area, I am sure that matters will be progressed.

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Local Authorities (Funding)

To ask the First Minister whether sufficient resources will be made available to local authorities to fully fund the cost of current local authority services, a council tax freeze and all SNP manifesto commitments that relate to local government. (S3F-264)

The outcome of the spending review, which will be announced on 14 November—I say that in case anybody does not know—will set out the basis of the local government settlement for the next three years.

That answer was entirely predictable. The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth will, of course, meet local authority leaders this afternoon. Will he, through the Deputy First Minister, guarantee that the Government will commit the necessary funds to deliver on the council tax freeze, the free school meals pledge and the promise to reduce class sizes, to increase access to nurseries, to improve sports facilities in schools, to provide extra support for carers and to deliver on other pledges that are to be delivered through local government? Will local government be left to pick up the bill for those uncosted and ill-thought-through pledges or will they, like many other SNP pledges, simply be broken? It appears that they will be.

It feels a bit like groundhog day.

I have already made the Government's position on the council tax freeze clear. The Government's other manifesto commitments that require partnership working with local authorities are the subject of on-going and constructive discussions with those authorities. Those discussions will continue this afternoon.

It is a bit rich of Labour to suggest that existing services will suffer so that we can fund our manifesto commitments. The suggestion is absurd for two reasons. First, it is wrong. Secondly, during the election campaign, Labour bragged that other services would have to suffer to fund its manifesto commitments. The former First Minster said that every penny of new money would go to education and that other services would have to "cut their cloth". That would have meant cuts in health and police services and in social work services for older people—and no doubt yet another massive Labour hike in council tax. Labour would have followed that course, but that is not the course that the SNP Government will pursue.

What impact will the Westminster-imposed financial squeeze have on the money that will be available for local authority services? Now that the price of oil has reached $100 a barrel, will the SNP Government submit an additional request for our share of the oil money to help to fund services in Scotland?

I am sure that nobody in the chamber will be surprised that I am more than happy to agree with Alex Neil that it is Scotland's oil. I also agree that the financial settlement is the worst there has been under devolution, as I said in response to a question that Wendy Alexander asked. In 2003-04, there was an 11.5 per cent real increase in the Scottish budget; next year, the increase will be 0.5 per cent. That is the reality. Those figures highlight the poor deal that Scotland has had at a time of historically high revenues from our oil and gas industries. However, I reassure Alex Neil and other members that even within that very tight financial settlement the Government is determined to deliver on our commitments to the Scottish people.

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Teachers (Protection)

To ask the First Minister how teachers in schools will be protected from violence. (S3F-252)

The Scottish Government is committed to supporting schools to create peaceful and positive learning environments. We will develop guidance on that and on dealing with more serious indiscipline.

I am sure that the Deputy First Minister agrees that before we can begin to tackle the problem of protecting teachers in schools from violence, the fullest and most accurate statistics on school assaults should be available. I know that she will agree with that because that was the SNP's position when it was in opposition. The then shadow education spokesman, Fiona Hyslop, said in the chamber on 17 March 2005:

"If we regard indiscipline as a serious issue, it is important that regular statistics should be produced so that there can be accountability. The production of statistics every three years is not good enough."—[Official Report, 17 March 2005; c 15454.]

Why, in government, has the SNP done a U-turn on its promise to publish such statistics? Is that not just another SNP broken promise?

We should always remember that the majority of children in our schools behave extremely well. However, a minority do not, and I know that we all share the sentiment that violence against teachers is absolutely unacceptable.

I agree with Murdo Fraser: we want to have openness on indiscipline and to know what is happening in our schools. That is what the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning said when she wrote to the Conservatives' education spokesperson just this week. Fiona Hyslop is reviewing how we might provide information that is accurate, reliable and robust, because there is no point in having information that is not accurate, reliable and robust. She is also considering the cost-effectiveness of providing such information. I am sure that all members agree that, when possible, money should be spent on the front line, to improve discipline in our schools, to cut class sizes and to improve the learning experience for our children. Those will always be this Government's priorities.

The Deputy First Minister will be aware that a great deal of important work is done to combat indiscipline in schools through the national priorities action fund, which funds work on discipline, alternatives to exclusion, additional support staff and additional support needs in-service training. Can the Deputy First Minister assure us that that important targeted support will continue?

I agree that a great deal of good work is done in our schools to combat indiscipline, and I take this opportunity to pay tribute to the teachers and headteachers who work so hard to do that.

As Rhona Brankin knows, funding decisions are subject to the comprehensive spending review. Such matters will be addressed when the Government's budget is published next Wednesday. I assure her that we are determined to take a range of measures that will improve the learning experience for our children, which is vital for the future of our country.

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Do you consider it appropriate for a minister to announce during First Minister's question time that the Government is to introduce a car park tax across Scotland? Do you agree that the hard-working families who use out-of-town shopping centres pay enough tax—

Order. The member should sit down. That is not a point of order. I refer Mr McNeil to the announcement that the Presiding Officer made prior to decision time on 25 October and ask him to read in the Official Report what the Presiding Officer said about points of order in which members simply attempt to rerun questions that have already been asked.

Meeting suspended until 14:15.

On resuming—