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Chamber and committees

Meeting of the Parliament

Meeting date: Thursday, January 8, 2015


Contents


First Minister’s Question Time


Engagements

To ask the First Minister what engagements she has planned for the rest of the day. (S4F-02503)

The First Minister (Nicola Sturgeon)

Later today, I will have engagements to take forward the Government’s programme for Scotland but, earlier this morning, I spoke to the consul general of France and conveyed to him Scotland’s condolences to and solidarity with the people of his country. I have also instructed that flags at Scottish Government buildings will fly at half mast for the remainder of today as a mark of respect.

The links between Scotland and France are long standing and strong. Indeed, we have a French-born member of our Parliament. Today, as we see further tragic developments taking place, we stand shoulder to shoulder with the people of France, united in our condemnation of yesterday’s atrocity, deeply saddened by the tragic loss of life and absolutely steadfast in our defence of the fundamental freedoms that we all cherish so much.

Kezia Dugdale

In a democracy, we must never give in to attempts to censor the media or to curtail freedom of speech. I join the First Minister in sending the condolences and sympathies of those on these benches to the people of France and to the French community in Scotland.

This week, the newspapers in England have been full of reports about the crisis in the national health service, as accident and emergency departments come under severe pressure. How would the First Minister describe the situation in accident and emergency departments in Scotland?

The First Minister

Right now, our national health service, and our accident and emergency departments in particular, are facing significant pressures. That is very often the case during the winter months. During that period, the pressure that our hospitals are working under increases not only because of the number of attendances at A and E, but because of the severity of illness and the number of admissions to hospital, combined with factors such as norovirus. For example, over the festive period, Greater Glasgow and Clyde NHS Board had what the chair of the board described to the Cabinet Secretary for Health, Wellbeing and Sport this morning as an unprecedented level of very sick people being entirely appropriately admitted to hospital through accident and emergency, many of them frail elderly people with respiratory illnesses.

With health boards, we prepare carefully for the winter period. Many health boards have opened additional beds and expanded staff capacity, and the Scottish Government has made £28 million available to health boards to help them to prepare for winter pressures. I take this opportunity to thank all the NHS staff who are working hard just now to deal with that increased demand.

Every occasion on which a patient waits too long in accident and emergency is deeply regrettable, and we will continue to work hard to improve performance not only in the winter months but all year round.

Finally, it is important to put winter pressures into some context. Nine out of 10 people who attend accident and emergency departments are seen within four hours. There is much work to do, but we should mark the good work that is being done.

Kezia Dugdale

The staff in our NHS do a tremendous job. It is because I value the work that they do that I am shining a light on the problems in our health service today.

The First Minister may say that there is no crisis in our NHS but, earlier this week, her officials tried to silence NHS staff. They asked health boards not to respond to press calls for details of accident and emergency department performance over Christmas.

The A and E crisis in England is public because the statistics are published every week. However, in Scotland, we will not know how our NHS performed over the Christmas period until February. Will the First Minister commit today to publishing A and E figures every week, just as they do in England?

The First Minister

First, in the interests of accuracy, the email Kezia Dugdale referred to was not an email to health boards; it was from an official to statisticians, seeking advice on the reliability of statistics. No instruction went from the Information and Statistics Division to health boards.

From the wealth of information that health boards have put into the public domain in recent days, we have seen that what Kezia Dugdale says is the case is manifestly not the case.

Before this Government came into office, Labour did not routinely collect accident and emergency statistics at all; it simply took snapshot surveys. Since this Government has been in office, there has been quarterly reporting of accident and emergency statistics. From February this year—next month—that reporting will be done monthly. I want there to be as much transparency as possible so that we can ensure that our health boards are as equipped as they need to be to deal with the pressure that they face.

The pressure on our health service and our accident and emergency units during the winter months is obvious, and I have detailed some of the reasons for that pressure. My job as the First Minister, the job of the health secretary and the job of the entire Government is to make sure that we do everything that we can to equip our health service to meet the demands that it faces. That is what we have been doing and it is what we will continue to do.

Kezia Dugdale

Harking back to the Labour years might comfort Scottish National Party back benchers, but it will not comfort anyone who slept on a trolley last night. All across the country, patients are being turned away or are receiving unacceptable treatment. The Victoria infirmary in Glasgow is treating patients in a portakabin; Ninewells hospital in Dundee admitted delaying treatment because the hospital is too busy; and in Aberdeen, the royal infirmary has had to cancel 80 operations this week, including another 15 this morning. The list could go on and on. Does the First Minister believe that there are other instances, and does she think that that is an acceptable standard of care?

The First Minister

I will address a few of those points and will deal with the Victoria infirmary first. As I understand it, the facility that Kezia Dugdale refers to was opened 10 years ago, but that is not the point that I want to make about the Victoria infirmary. The accommodation at that hospital is not as good as it should be or as good as we want it to be, which is why the Government is investing £850 million in the construction of a new hospital on the south side of Glasgow that will open this year and will replace the facilities at the Victoria infirmary. That is the action that the Government is taking to improve the national health service.

Recording progress that has been made while acknowledging that work still needs to be done is not “harking back”; it is simply recognising the reality. Today in our national health service, there are almost three times as many A and E consultants as there were under Labour—not just a few more, but almost three times the number: there were 75 under Labour and there are 201 under the SNP Government. There are 1,700 more nurses working across our national health service, and the budget today is nearly £3 billion higher than it was under Labour.

Last, but perhaps most important in the context of the very serious issue that we are discussing, there are two accident and emergency units operating in Scotland today that would have been closed if Labour had remained in office. The Monklands and Ayr A and E units have treated thousands of people over the festive period alone.

Yes, there are pressures, and the Government will help health boards to face up to them. However, those pressures would be considerably worse if Labour had continued in office.

Kezia Dugdale

Again, we hear about Labour’s record when Labour was in power. The First Minister needs to understand that, when Labour came into power in 1999, I was still at school. The SNP has been in power for eight years and she is responsible for eight years’ worth of Government decisions. From today, she has to take that responsibility. The problems in our NHS are not new. The Royal College of Nursing has been warning the Government for months about the problems in the NHS, and the Government has been in office, running the NHS, for eight years.

We are just one week into 2015 and a clear pattern is emerging. The workers in the North Sea oil industry are saying that jobs are at risk, yet the First Minister is posted missing. Our teachers are saying that the Scottish Government has abandoned Scotland’s pupils, yet the First Minister has nothing to say. The nurses who keep our NHS going are crying out for support, and the First Minister has plenty to say but no action to offer. At a time when our public services and industries need Government support more than ever, people in Scotland have one simple question: when will the First Minister fix this mess?

The First Minister

Of course, when I was “posted missing”, as Kezia Dugdale describes me, I was in Ninewells hospital yesterday announcing money for additional nurses in our national health service.

I am not surprised that Labour does not want to be reminded of its record on the health service in Scotland, but if Kezia Dugdale does not remember it and wants a reminder, she can look at Wales right now. It is the only part of the United Kingdom where Labour is in charge of the national health service—[Interruption.]

Order.

Budgets have not been protected—[Interruption.]

Order!

Performance is considerably worse. However, it is not Labour’s record—[Interruption.]

Mr Henry!

The First Minister

A member of the Labour Party said yesterday that Labour’s treatment of the NHS was nothing more than—I think that this is an accurate quotation—a crude ploy to buy votes. The Labour Party is displaying its cynicism in the chamber today.

However, I am focusing not on Labour’s record but on the Scottish National Party’s. For the benefit of Labour members, I will repeat some of that record: we now have three times the number of A and E consultants, 1,700 more nurses, £3 billion more being spent on the health service and two accident and emergency units that are open and operational but which would have been closed under Labour.

I accept that, each and every day that we hold office, we will have more work to do to ensure that our NHS cares for the patients who depend on it, but I think that the people of Scotland will want this Government to move forwards and will not want to go backwards with the Labour Party.


Prime Minister (Meetings)

2. Ruth Davidson (Glasgow) (Con)

I associate the Conservative members with the First Minister’s words regarding yesterday’s atrocity in France. We all stand in solidarity with the people of France and journalists everywhere who reveal, report, challenge and offend. Like them, we know that freedom of speech will never be silenced by gunfire.

To ask the First Minister when she will next meet the Prime Minister. (S4F-02502)

I have no current plans.

Ruth Davidson

Our oil industry needs our support. I welcome the United Kingdom Government’s decision to cut the supplementary charge. It was outlined in the autumn statement and implemented last week. I have already written to the Chancellor of the Exchequer calling for his commitment to a new investment allowance to be implemented within months.

Those are measures of support on which we can all agree and that Oil & Gas UK has welcomed. However, the fall in the oil price would have left an independent Scotland with an £18.6 billion black hole over the next three years. Does the First Minister agree that that was a bullet dodged and that the best approach for the industry and the country is for us all to work together on a UK-wide basis?

The First Minister

No, I do not agree with that. I believe and always will believe that the best way forward for Scotland is for us to be in charge of our own resources so that we do not have to be subject to the kind of cuts that are coming at us from the UK Government and can instead be the masters of our own destiny.

On a more positive note, I very much welcome Ruth Davidson’s perhaps slightly belated support for the measures for which the Government has repeatedly asked the UK Government. The supplementary charge should be reduced. The reduction from 32 per cent to 30 per cent that was announced in the autumn statement was welcome but, of course, the UK Government that Ruth Davidson supports put the supplementary charge up from 20 per cent to 32 per cent in the first place.

Yes, we need an investment allowance but that needs to stop being talked about in vague terms and we need detail on exactly what the proposal is. We also need to have tax credits for exploration in the North Sea. When Norway introduced that measure, it saw a significant increase in exploration in the months and years that followed.

Fergus Ewing will make a statement to Parliament this afternoon and, alongside that statement, will publish information on the work that the Scottish Government is doing on skills, innovation and support for exports. He will also make very clear the kind of action that we need the UK Government to take. If Ruth Davidson wants to back us on that, I will welcome that very much indeed.

Ruth Davidson

I am disappointed by the First Minister’s reluctance to endorse a UK-wide approach but not exactly surprised, as that response sits alongside the comments that her immediate predecessor made this morning. I do not know whether she has read today’s papers, but Alex Salmond apparently wants to use the general election in May to sever all our UK ties apart from foreign affairs and defence.

That means that the £18.6 billion black hole that is currently borne on UK-wide shoulders would fall solely on Scotland, meaning cuts to every school, every hospital and every service that we rely on in this land. Further to that, the full fiscal autonomy plan would tear our tax system apart and dismantle the stable UK-wide regulatory regime that the oil industry relies on. It would be a double whammy for an industry that is already struggling.

Does the First Minister really think that, at this critical time when the industry is looking for stability and security and for political leadership and support, the Scottish National Party solution is to rip everything up?

The First Minister

I am just waiting for the holding of the front pages for Ruth Davidson’s earth-shattering exclusive here at First Minister’s questions today: “Alex Salmond backs independence.” Who knew that that was the case?

It is quite admirable in some respects that Ruth Davidson, who is a supporter of a Government that has been one of successive UK Governments that have squandered our oil resources and failed to invest in an oil fund, can stand up here and talk about oil and gas without the hint of a brass neck or a blushing face.

Ruth Davidson mentions stability. I think that we should look at some of the comments from those in the industry about the so-called stability of the stewardship of UK Governments. Malcolm Webb of Oil & Gas UK says that he has been

“truly bewildered by the way in which successive governments have treated the UK offshore oil and gas sector.”

He says that it has

“experienced repeated and increasingly aggressive tax hits”

and that we have had

“confused and confusing energy policy”

with

“a revolving door approach to the appointment of ministers”

and

“a total of 35 different Energy and Treasury Ministers given responsibility ... in the last 14 years”.

That is the verdict of the industry on the UK stewardship of the oil and gas sector.

My position is that I will do everything on the part of the Scottish Government to support the industry. The Scottish Government Cabinet will meet in Aberdeen next month. However, the UK Government has to get its act together, stop talking about supporting the industry and actually start to do it.

We have a constituency question from Adam Ingram.

Adam Ingram (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP)

Will the First Minister intercede on behalf of the 200-strong workforce of USC Dundonald in Ayrshire, who yesterday were made redundant without notice by their employer—part of the Sports Direct group of companies? Will she join me in condemning the actions of Sports Direct, which is of course owned by billionaire Mike Ashley, in its reprehensible treatment of this workforce, many of whom, I understand, were employed on zero-hours contracts?

The First Minister

Yes. I was extremely concerned when I became aware of developments that took place yesterday at USC clothing in Dundonald. My concern, like Adam Ingram’s, is for the shock impact that they will have on the employees who are affected, their families and the surrounding area.

In terms of good practice and employee relations, I would expect there to be a consultation period with employees to provide an opportunity for all avenues to be explored. However, I am also aware of a news report that states that there is a notice of intention to appoint receivers in the High Court next Tuesday in respect of USC stores.

I can confirm that, through our partnership action for continuing employment initiative, we have offered support to the company for affected employees. Also, our local PACE team has this morning gone to the company’s premises in Dundonald to discuss PACE support. The last update that I had was that the local PACE representatives were sitting waiting in the company’s reception area to see a company representative.

I hope that that reassures the Parliament that this Government will do everything that we can to support all the employees who are affected by events at USC, and also to make very clear our expectations of good practice and employee relations.


Oil and Gas Industry (Employment)

To ask the First Minister what reassurances the Scottish Government can give workers in the oil and gas industry whose jobs are at risk. (S4F-02505)

The First Minister (Nicola Sturgeon)

We will do all that we can to support the workers of the oil and gas industry. They can be assured that this Government is doing all that it can to help and support the industry, which is more than can be said for successive UK Governments. We have repeatedly called on the UK Government to listen to the recommendations of the independent expert commission and to the industry and bring in the stable and competitive fiscal regime that the industry needs—and to bring it in now. That is what will protect jobs in the sector.

Later today, the Minister for Business, Energy and Tourism will, as I have already said, make a statement to the Parliament making clear our commitment and setting out the actions that we believe the UK Government needs to take as a matter of urgency.

Jackie Baillie

The First Minister will be aware that the Scottish Parliament information centre has estimated that the number of job losses could be in the order of 15,750, which is more than the number of jobs that were lost with the closure of Ravenscraig that was announced 23 years ago today. That means that one in 12 jobs in the sector is at risk in Scotland.

That estimate was made when the price of oil was $60 a barrel. Now that the price has fallen to below $50 a barrel, what estimate has the First Minister made of how many additional jobs are at risk? What will her Government do to help?

The First Minister

We will continue to monitor the situation and to engage with the industry, as we have been doing. We will continue to do everything within our power to help the industry through this difficult time, and we will continue to press the UK Government, which holds the fiscal levers, to do what it needs to do to support the industry.

I think that, even by its standards, Labour’s hypocrisy on the issue is quite breathtaking. I heard talk of a resilience fund. The last time that the oil price was at a similar level to the level that it is at today was in 2009. At that time, one Jim Murphy was Secretary of State for Scotland. I had a look to see what he did back then, when similar concerns about jobs were being expressed, to set up a resilience fund. I could not find a single word that he had uttered. However, I found something that Jackie Baillie said quite recently. She said that to set up an oil fund would simply take money away from vital public services.

We will do everything that we can to support the industry, but we will take no lectures from a party that during its period in office raked in £93 billion from the North Sea and did not save a single brass farthing of it. We will take no lectures from Labour.

Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)

Although the decline in the oil price is undoubtedly bad news for the energy sector and for the north-east economy, we should not lose sight of the fact that it is good news for many other sectors of the economy and for household budgets. What assessment has the Scottish Government made of the overall impact of a low oil price on the Scottish economy?

The First Minister

Members will not often hear me say this—they may never hear me say it again—but Murdo Fraser makes a reasonable point. As well as supporting the industry to deal with the difficulties that the low oil price will present for it, we need to make sure that consumers get the benefit of that low oil price. Today, Fergus Ewing will write to energy companies to press them to make sure that savings are passed on directly to consumers. I will meet representatives of Scottish Power this afternoon, and I will make that point, too.

We will continue to look carefully at the issue to make sure that, although the low oil price is of concern for the Scottish economy, it delivers some benefits to consumers.


Free School Meals

To ask the First Minister how many families will benefit from the policy of free school meals. (S4F-02512)

The First Minister (Nicola Sturgeon)

I am very proud to say that the families of 135,000 pupils in primary 1 to 3 from all local authorities across Scotland are set to benefit from the extension to eligibility for free school meals. That is in addition to the families of 35,000 children in primary 1 to 3 who were already registered for free school meals. The measure will save the families of every eligible child at least £330 a year, which is something that I think all members could welcome.

George Adam

The First Minister will have seen this morning’s reports that Labour-controlled West Dunbartonshire Council is planning to scrap hot school dinners on Fridays. Does she agree that it is time for Labour to recognise what poverty campaigners are telling us, which is to back free school meals and stop trying to undermine this important policy?

The First Minister

Yes, I agree. I was quite taken aback by what must be one of the most absurd Labour press releases that I have ever seen, which was issued earlier this week by, I believe, Iain Gray. In it, he said that I am the person in Scotland who will benefit most from free school meals. That must be because of all the secret weans I have who nobody knows about scattered around the country.

One of the really depressing things for traditional Labour supporters to watch at the moment is the way Labour contorts itself to oppose anything that the Scottish National Party proposes. It has done so to such an extent that this week it finds itself on the wrong side of poverty organisations and trade unions, including the Educational Institute of Scotland. It finds itself actually opposing free school meals for our youngest children, which is absolutely disgraceful.

I say to George Adam, yes—it is time that Labour in West Dunbartonshire and every part of the country got behind free school meals and started acting like a Labour Party again, for goodness’ sake.

How many families in the subset of the 75,000 families that I believe the First Minister mentioned could be considered to be low-paid families, and how many already receive free school meals?

The First Minister

The 135,000 pupils that I talked about are additional. It is clear that Duncan McNeil still thinks that he is—for all that I know, he possibly still is—in the alliance with the Tory party in which Labour spent the last two years in the referendum campaign. Surely Labour is aware of the research and evidence that says that by removing the stigma of means testing for school lunches, we will increase uptake among the very children whom we most want to benefit from them. That used to be the kind of stuff that Labour believed in, argued for, championed and advocated—but that was before the days when it had just become a subsidiary of the Scottish Tory party.


Schools (Teacher Numbers and Class Sizes)

To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government’s position is on reports that it has abandoned its policies to protect teacher numbers and reduce class sizes. (S4F-02508)

Those reports are wrong.

Iain Gray

If we are protecting teacher numbers and class sizes but we have lost 4,200 teachers, I would, to be frank, hate to see what not protecting them looks like.

Scotland’s parents and teachers are not fooled. They know that we have lost teachers and that class sizes are increasing. The Educational Institute of Scotland, too, is not fooled. It is very clear that when Mr Swinney talked about replacing guarantees on teacher numbers with educational outcomes, he was indeed abandoning his manifesto promises on class sizes. Is not that the case?

The First Minister

No, it is not the case. I have made it very clear in my short tenure to date as First Minister that I want to prioritise raising attainment and closing the attainment gap. I hope that we can all unite behind that. Let me make it very clear that I do not believe that reducing teacher numbers is the best way to achieve that.

When I look at statistics on the record of this Government’s period in office, I see, for example, that the number of primary 1 pupils in classes of 26 or more has been cut by 97 per cent and that we have been holding the pupil to teacher ratio relatively steady. I want to ensure that we work to continue to do that.

I think that all of us accept that, of all the many important and onerous responsibilities that we have—we have discussed some of those already—there is probably nothing more important than giving our young people the best start in life. That is one of the reasons why I support free school meals. I want to work with parties across the chamber to ensure that we take action to do that and to protect and improve the quality of education in our schools.

When it comes to teacher numbers and class sizes, all that I ask Iain Gray to do is to not just come here and talk to me about them, but to talk to some of his own party’s councils that are responsible for cutting teacher numbers, which he complains about.

Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)

Given the resources that have been diverted into trying the meet the Government’s targets on P1 to P3 class sizes and teacher numbers, can the First Minister advise members what the impact has been on class sizes for pupils in P4 to P7?

The First Minister

I do not really accept Liam McArthur’s characterisation that “resources have been diverted” to trying to cut class sizes in primary 1 to 3. Doing so is good use of resources, and we made it very clear that we wanted to see class sizes being cut.

Liam McArthur has made the point, however, that we need to ensure that we improve the quality of education not just in primary 1 to 3 but throughout the education system, and not just in primary classes but in secondary classes. I accept our responsibility to take a range of actions to do that. I am determined that I will, as First Minister, lead that effort.

I said to Ruth Davidson a few weeks ago that she should feel free to bring forward proposals for consideration. To my knowledge—although I stand to be corrected if I am wrong—Ruth Davidson has not yet—[Interruption.] If I have been written to, I welcome that and I will consider any proposals carefully. I say the same to all members in the chamber. Willie Rennie previously made proposals on early years education for two-year-olds that we took forward. The spirit is an open one. If members have proposals to make to us, I am always ready to listen.


Housing Costs

To ask the First Minister what assessment the Scottish Government has made of the Shelter Scotland report finding that 25 per cent of Scots fear that they cannot meet rent or mortgage bills. (S4F-02513)

The First Minister (Nicola Sturgeon)

The findings that were published by Shelter show that one in four people who are responsible for paying rent or mortgage is worried that they might not be able to do so at some point during 2015. Those are genuine concerns that are shared by many people in Scotland, and that is why the Scottish Government has been right to prioritise affordability as a key objective of housing policies. According to the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, households in Scotland spend a smaller share of their income on housing costs than those in England, but the Scottish Government is taking action to assist people who face financial difficulty to stay in their homes.

Joan McAlpine

Does the First Minister agree that the Shelter report underlines the importance of tackling in-work poverty? Will she join me in calling for all businesses to make a new year resolution to pay their staff the living wage?

The First Minister

I very much agree with that and, again, I hope that everybody in the chamber agrees with it. We know from the statistics that in-work poverty is one of the biggest challenges that we face and that one way of dealing with it is by raising salary levels. That is why the Government leads by example on the living wage and why we are funding the living wage accreditation scheme. I encourage all businesses to consider whether they can pay the living wage, and I encourage them to pay it.

Ken Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab)

Does the First Minister accept that one step that she might take to assuage the anxiety that is felt by those who pay the bills would be to prevent unreasonable rent rises in the private rented sector? Will the First Minister reconsider her position of continuing to vote with the Tories on the issue and perhaps vote with Labour?

The First Minister

I will gloss over that obvious lack of self-awareness on the part of Ken Macintosh, because he raises an important point. As he will be aware, when the Housing (Scotland) Act 2014 was going through Parliament, the Minister for Housing and Welfare undertook to explore issues relating to rents in the consultation on the new private sector tenancy. Respondents were asked for their views on rent levels. The consultation closed on 28 December and analysis of the responses is under way. I would be happy to see whether we can find a way of working with Labour on that issue in the interests of the people whom we mutually serve.