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Chamber and committees

Plenary, 06 Mar 2008

Meeting date: Thursday, March 6, 2008


Contents


First Minister's Question Time


Engagements

To ask the First Minister what engagements he has planned for the rest of the day. (S3F-567)

The First Minister (Alex Salmond):

Later today, I will have meetings to take forward the Government's programme for Scotland. Can I say how delighted I am to be answering Wendy Alexander's questions, given that it appears that if her boss had had his way, she would have been asking questions of Annabel Goldie or Nicol Stephen?

Ms Alexander:

We all saw the headlines this week about Scotland's booze and blade culture, and we all know that it is now even more uncomfortable to walk down the street on a Friday or a Saturday night—not just in the small hours but in the early evening. Does the First Minister agree that we need new approaches to tackle drink-fuelled violence in Scotland?

Yes, I do. That is why I am sure that Wendy Alexander will want to join me in congratulating the Cabinet Secretary for Justice on raising the issue so high on the public agenda and on introducing so many new initiatives.

Ms Alexander:

I welcome what the First Minister has just said, but I have concerns about the mixed messages that are coming from the heart of his Government. Given the reality of drink-fuelled violence, is the First Minister on the side of his justice secretary, who said on the BBC's "Wasted Nation" that he wants to double the cost of drink, or is he on the side of his Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth, who told the weekend's papers that he wanted to cut it?

The First Minister:

Wendy Alexander should probably acknowledge that when we talk about drink being cheaper than water, we are talking not about 10-year-old Glenmorangie being cheaper than water, but about high-strength cider and beer, and about the heavy discounting by supermarkets and retailers aimed at promoting a binge culture. I hope that, in her joint enthusiasm for tackling what is a real social problem in Scotland, Wendy Alexander is not suggesting that we continue the discrimination against one of Scotland's most famous exports—discrimination that might hamper us in terms of jobs and exports around the world.

Ms Alexander:

There the First Minister goes again—no answer. It is time for a straight answer to a straight question. The finance minister is lobbying for a tax cut on all spirits. Like it or not, cutting tax means cutting the price of the vodka and alcopops that are causing much of the trouble on our streets. Meanwhile, the justice secretary wants to double the cost of alcohol. Which side of the bar is the First Minister on?

The First Minister:

I am only responsible for the answers and not for Wendy Alexander's questions. If she had listened to my previous answer, she would know that I tried to make what I thought was a perfectly valid distinction, which would be well understood by the people of Scotland, between 10-year-old malt whisky and the cheap drink that is available in so many areas and that is causing us such great concern.

I do not know whether Wendy Alexander has been following the television programmes on the matter, because I remember seeing Pauline McNeill on "Newsnight" just last week, when she refused to say that she did not think that excise duty on whisky should be cut. Before Wendy Alexander asks the justice secretary or me about contradictions, she should ask her own MSPs.

Ms Alexander:

We have still not heard whether the First Minister is in favour of cutting the price of alcohol, as his finance minister suggests, or doubling it, as his justice secretary suggests. The First Minister knows full well that excise duty is also charged on vodka and alcopops and the like. We believe that the alcohol epidemic is too serious to play politics with.

Members:

Oh!

Order.

Ms Alexander:

Even the Scotch Whisky Association is arguing only for a tax freeze. However, the Scottish National Party is busy stoking up a budget battle and calling for a cut. Why is the Government more interested in starting fights with London than in stopping the fights on Scotland's streets?

The First Minister:

Over the past 10 years, I have been delighted to work on a cross-party basis with members of Parliament who have been calling on Chancellors of the Exchequer for a cut—with considerable success—based on the recognition that one of Scotland's great industries should not be discriminated against by taxing the alcohol content of drink.

If we are to address deep discounting and the binge-drinking culture, surely we should support the justice secretary in bringing forward his key proposals for how Scotland can address the problem. I do not agree with Wendy Alexander that addressing the problem means continuing to discriminate, through the tax on alcohol content, against one of Scotland's great industries, and I do not think that many of her own members will seriously support that absurd position.


Secretary of State for Scotland (Meetings)

To ask the First Minister when he will next meet the Secretary of State for Scotland. (S3F-568)

I have no plans at present to meet the secretary of state.

Annabel Goldie:

We know that the First Minister's much-vaunted pledge of a local income tax—he set a 100-day deadline, but it has become 300 days of dither—will now, perhaps, finally surface next week. On a point of basic principle, can the First Minister confirm that the proposal is still for a nationally set tax?

The First Minister:

The proposal will be set out in the consultation document. As Annabel Goldie knows, our proposal is to have a 3p rate of local income tax. The reason why we advocate that is that we believe that local income tax is a better and a fairer way to contribute to paying for local services. We believe that taxation should be based on the ability to pay. I know that there is a powerful coalition between the Conservative and Labour parties in favour of council tax, despite the fact that until this Administration took office that tax had risen by 60 per cent over the past 10 years—I also know that this Administration's decisive action to freeze council tax is welcomed across Scotland—but I hope that at some point Annabel Goldie will be able to persuade her members and the Labour Party that there is something fundamentally flawed about a taxation system that does not take account of people's ability to pay.

Annabel Goldie:

Whatever else a tax set nationally is called, it is not called a local income tax. Let us be clear: we are dealing with a Scottish national income tax and it will not happen because there is no majority in this Parliament for a Scottish national income tax. Not even the Lib Dems would provide it, unless the First Minister is praying that when Nick Clegg orders opposition to the proposal there is a collapse in the Scottish ranks and they rush to the aid of the First Minister.

Let me offer the First Minister a way out and a way ahead. If he still insists that his sums add up and that he can find a way to fund the universally acknowledged black hole in his plans for a Scottish national income tax, why does he not do something that has one feature of compelling attraction to the First Minister—it is popular? Why does he not scrap the plans for his complicated and unwieldy new Scottish national income tax and consider using the money, which he insists that he can find, to cut council tax for everyone? Scotland has a choice and the First Minister has a choice: an unwieldy 15 per cent hike in income tax or a simple, easily administered cut of 25 per cent in council tax for everyone. What is it to be?

The First Minister:

I remind Annabel Goldie that we have just cut council tax for everyone across Scotland by freezing it—except in the case of Stirling, where the Labour-run local authority, supported by the Conservatives, decided that it was so well endowed by Scottish Government support and finance that it cut its council tax in addition to the freeze. People throughout Scotland welcome what the Scottish Government has done, particularly given what is happening south of the border.

I have read Annabel Goldie's and her party's suggestions about how we should deal with the council tax. They have varied over the years—there have been many of them—but I have read them. One thing troubles me, and it is important for the current debate. The Scottish Conservatives' previous suggestion for the council tax, before today's suggestion, was to add on to the social security rebate another rebate. The problem with that suggestion is that it would have fallen victim to the recent pronouncements of James Purnell and United Kingdom ministers on deducting from Scotland what is rightfully ours.

That is rubbish.

The First Minister:

I am afraid that it would have.

As we pursue the debate, more and more people will come to the conclusion that we should have fair and just local taxation in Scotland. There should be no attempt by Westminster ministers to withhold Scotland's money.


Cabinet (Meetings)

To ask the First Minister what issues will be discussed at the next meeting of the Cabinet. (S3F-569)

The next meeting of the Cabinet will discuss issues of importance to the people of Scotland.

Nicol Stephen:

Last week, the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning, Fiona Hyslop, was asked on television's "Politics Now" programme:

"Are you going to remove student debt? Are you going to write it off?"

Her reply was:

"We never promised to write it off."

Does the First Minister think that she was absolutely and completely accurate in saying that?

The First Minister:

As Nicol Stephen well knows, the manifesto commitment was to pay the interest payments on student debt. Last week, as I stood shoulder to shoulder with his MSPs and the students who demonstrated in favour of the Government's proposals to reintroduce free education in Scotland, little did I think that, only a week later, he would seek to divide us where we were so unified.

Nicol Stephen:

The Scottish National Party seems to have a new tactic, does it not? It used to deny breaking its promises. Now it denies making them in the first place. Does the First Minister expect us to forget that "dump the debt" was on every leaflet, on every badge and on postcards to students? There was a cartoon logo and there was even a podcast by the First Minister, yet Fiona Hyslop said last week:

"We never promised to write it off."

I wonder whether the First Minister has seen the SNP website that says:

"We will write off the accumulated debt".

Who should people believe, I wonder—Fiona Hyslop or fionahyslop.com?

My view is that people should follow manifesto commitments. [Interruption.]

Order.

The First Minister:

My view is that students in Scotland were demonstrating in favour of the Government's proposals for free education. I am delighted with the support that we had from the Liberal Democrats to make that progress. I hope that we will get their support on the local income tax. I got a very nice letter from Nicol Stephen only the other day. However, I found myself reflecting on manifesto commitments on Tuesday night, when a rumour swept the country that the Liberals were about to honour their manifesto commitment by voting for a referendum on the European treaty. [Interruption.]

Order. [Interruption.] Order. When I ask for order, it is not an invitation to double the noise.

I headed down to London because I realised that my vote might well be decisive, only to find out that the Liberals had decided to split and were in total disarray.

Joe FitzPatrick (Dundee West) (SNP):

The First Minister will be aware that, on Tuesday, Texol Technical Solutions in Dundee announced 85 redundancies. I am sure that the First Minister will agree that our first priority must be to ensure the rapid re-employment of those who face redundancy. Will he ensure that Dundee gets the Scottish Government's full support to develop a forward-thinking economic and enterprise strategy?

The First Minister:

Yes, I can make that commitment to the local member. I know about the redundancies in Dundee, which are a serious matter. The offices of the Scottish Government will give the maximum support to the local area and the employees who have been affected by the redundancies.

Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab):

The First Minister might be aware that next Sunday, NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde will begin charging for car parking at Stobhill hospital. That is despite the fact that the Public Petitions Committee has asked the health board to delay the implementation of charging until its consideration of a petition is complete. Does the First Minister agree that the Public Petitions Committee should be allowed to complete its consideration of the petition before the car parking charges are implemented?

The First Minister:

The Public Petitions Committee's work should be considered by all concerned. I am sure that the member will want to salute the cap on parking charges that has been introduced by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing. A £3 cap is a thoroughly good idea given the outrageous charges that developed in certain hospital car parks under the tutelage of the previous Administration. The cap that is being introduced will mean protection for staff and patients around Scotland. We should remember and welcome the fact that the majority of hospital car parks in Scotland remain free to use.


Firearms Legislation

To ask the First Minister what discussions the Scottish Government has had with United Kingdom ministers regarding firearms legislation. (S3F-575)

The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and I have met UK Ministers to discuss firearms legislation. We have also exchanged letters with UK ministers on that very important subject.

Nigel Don:

Between 2003 and 2007, the number of air-gun incidents that were handled by Grampian police increased fivefold. In Scotland, the number of cases in which air weapons were fired at a person and caused injury has jumped 20 per cent in the past two years. That contrasts with the situation in England and Wales, where the number of crimes involving air-guns has dropped by 10 per cent during the past two years. Taking those figures into account, does the First Minister agree that, contrary to the views apparently expressed by the Home Secretary, Scotland has a more acute problem with air-guns that must be addressed urgently?

The First Minister:

I agree with that. Members will be disturbed to hear the figures that the member from the area gives for the north-east of Scotland—figures that are replicated throughout Scotland. In 2006-07, 144 cases were reported in which an air weapon was fired or killed or caused injury to a person. I am sure that everyone will agree that that is 144 too many and that we should all be determined to reduce the risk posed by those weapons for the people of Scotland.

Does the First Minister agree that, given the powers that are available to us, a useful first step would be for the Government to adopt the Liberal Democrats' suggestion to introduce a tough licensing scheme for air-guns?

The First Minister:

Although the Home Secretary has turned down the invitation to jointly host a summit to consider the issue, such a summit should and will go ahead because, over and above the basic requirement for legal protection, it might well be that we can toughen up the situation using existing legislation. I am sure that Margaret Smith will want to bring her views to the summit that will be held by the Cabinet Secretary for Justice.


Domestic Violence

To ask the First Minister, in the week of international women's day, what the Scottish Government is doing to support women suffering domestic violence. (S3F-581)

The First Minister (Alex Salmond):

The Scottish Government has shown its commitment to the work to tackle violence against women, including domestic abuse, through the allocation of more than £40 million over the next three years. For example, both the violence against women fund and the children's services-women's aid fund will continue, as will funding for Scottish Women's Aid, Rape Crisis Scotland and the two national helplines for domestic abuse and rape crisis.

Furthermore, six of the 15 national outcomes are relevant to work to prevent violence against women and, as Margaret Curran well knows, I signed the zero tolerance statement of intent at the cross-party event held in the Parliament a few weeks ago.

Margaret Curran:

I thank the First Minister for his answer and acknowledge that progress is continuing on our work.

Does the First Minister agree that many, if not all in the Parliament will, on international women's day, want to pay tribute to the women of earlier generations who fought for the vote, for equal pay, for child care and for political representation? However, I am sure that the First Minister will acknowledge that members across the chamber recognise the continuing and profound challenge presented by domestic abuse. Does the First Minister agree that the pilot domestic abuse court in Glasgow has been proven to work and, if so, will he tell the chamber what he considers to be the successes of the domestic abuse court? Will he stand, on international women's day, with the women who tackle domestic abuse day and daily and who want the court extended throughout Scotland? Will he tell the Cabinet Secretary for Justice, who refuses to support that change, which is demanded by women's organisations throughout Scotland, to think again?

The First Minister:

The first thing is, of course, to continue the work of that court and extend it throughout the city of Glasgow. Not every court in Scotland is suitable, as Glasgow most certainly is, for that work, but it is certainly being considered for application elsewhere. I should have said to Margaret Curran that, on Tuesday in this week of international women's day, Mr MacAskill and the Deputy First Minister met the women's coalition to examine a range of issues that the women's coalition is bringing forward. It was an extremely productive meeting.

Furthermore, on Saturday there will be a daytime event at the Scottish Parliament hosted by the Minister for Europe, External Affairs and Culture and a reception at Edinburgh castle later on. The range of issues on the agenda on Tuesday—I have an outcome note of it—makes extremely interesting reading and shows the commitment that I hold, and that I hope is held by members across the chamber, to the vital importance of those issues.

Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP):

The First Minister will be aware of Amnesty International's report "No recourse, no safety", which highlights the plight of women with insecure immigration status who are fleeing domestic abuse, and who have no recourse whatsoever to public funds. Will the First Minister look at that issue and enable those women to access the services to which they are entitled under our country's obligation to protect human rights?

I will look at the issue, as suggested, and I will write to the member.

Hugh O’Donnell (Central Scotland) (LD):

As part of the strategy to address the abhorrence that is domestic violence, will the First Minister ensure that the vulnerable persons database is included in the scope of the Disclosure Scotland scheme, to ensure that potential employers have access to relevant information relating to domestic abusers?

I will certainly see that that suggestion is properly considered and taken forward if it is appropriate.

On a more positive note, can the First Minister outline any education measures that will be undertaken? If we seek to reduce violence against women in the home, men have to be educated from the cradle to the grave.

The First Minister:

One of the key items discussed at the meeting on Tuesday was to examine further the work that is already under way in the prevention strategy to underline the importance that is placed on education and on promoting that work; and also to look at the international experience, which gives us valuable insight into that. That was welcomed by the women's coalition members, and officials are currently being asked to provide further advice to ministers on how that can be taken forward.


Airports

To ask the First Minister what discussions the Scottish Government has had with BAA about the future of Scotland's airports. (S3F-572)

We have regular contact with the operators of Scotland's main airports at ministerial and official level. The meetings can cover a wide range of issues, including the future development of airports.

John Scott:

Although the decision on a third runway at Heathrow is a matter to be determined south of the border, the First Minister will be aware that there are concerns that, unless overall capacity is increased, connectivity to Scotland's airports might be adversely affected. There is serious concern that more routes to Scotland will be lost, or that the frequency of flights will be reduced. Can the First Minister outline the steps that ministers propose to take to protect and develop air connectivity between Scotland and London in the interests of growing the Scottish economy?

The First Minister:

The Competition Commission is conducting an inquiry into the provision of airport services by BAA. The Commission met with Scottish officials on 30 January and a transcript of that hearing will appear on the commission's website in due course. As the member will know, I am visiting Prestwick airport on Tuesday, and I will be keen and anxious to talk about the particular impact and importance of Prestwick to that part of Scotland.

Gil Paterson (West of Scotland) (SNP):

That Scotland is now free of bridge tolls is welcome, but I am sure that the First Minister is aware that BAA has introduced a road toll: it has introduced charges for collecting passengers at airports in Scotland. Will the Government step in and find a way to nullify and negate the powers of regulation that BAA has used to introduce a holiday tax?

The First Minister:

The Government has submitted evidence to the Competition Commission in relation to the inquiry. I know that the matter that the member raises has been controversial for several airports in Scotland, and I know because of my constituency role that Aberdeen airport has just withdrawn its initial proposals on taxation on taxi uplifts. I hope that the matter will be properly discussed, as there is concern that there are competition implications to some of the charging mechanisms that are being used.

Lewis Macdonald (Aberdeen Central) (Lab):

Is the First Minister aware of the view that the Aberdeen Hotels Association expressed last week that setting targets for growing tourism on the one hand and cutting the route development fund on the other hand

"just does not stack up"?

Given that in Aberdeen next week, the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee will take evidence on the tourism growth targets, will the First Minister offer some good news for tourism in the north-east by announcing a new fund to support direct flights into Scotland?

The First Minister:

As Lewis Macdonald well knows, it is no longer possible to pursue the route development fund because of European competition rules. The extension that the previous Administration was allowed has now run out, and it would be impossible to pursue the scheme in its current form.

We are considering transport policy in the round. Obviously, the tourism targets were industry targets that the previous Administration adopted and we have endorsed. In the coming years, there will be a number of positive developments in Scottish tourism, not least of which will be the year of homecoming next year, Glasgow 2014 and the Ryder cup. I have every confidence that, although the targets are challenging, they are reasonable and can be met.

Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green):

I am sure that every member is aware that scientists have said that emissions from the aviation sector have a far more damaging impact on climate change than emissions from ground-based industries. Does the First Minister accept that if we allow the aviation industry to expand at its current rates and build more capacity to allow and facilitate that expansion, aviation will account for the majority of the country's carbon budget well before 2050, and well before the long-term targets to which the Government has committed itself are met? How is the target of reducing emissions by 80 per cent to be met if the Government continues to facilitate the expansion of the aviation industry?

The First Minister:

The 80 per cent target will be a statutory obligation on the Government.

I want to put two points to Patrick Harvie. First, I am sure that if members were to judge the best and most appropriate way of taking people from Scotland to London, the bulk of them would favour a fast rail link; unfortunately, such a link is not the favoured choice of the Department for Transport. It was not the favoured choice of the previous Secretary of State for Transport and it is not the favoured choice of the current Secretary of State for Transport.

Secondly, even Patrick Harvie should acknowledge that there is a bit of common sense in having direct flights to and from Scotland. If there are direct air flights, two air journeys—for example, a journey to Heathrow or elsewhere and an international journey from there—are exchanged for one air journey. Such flights would seem to be a carbon gain, good for the Scottish economy and good for our carbon emissions output.

Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab):

I am sure that the increasing number of flights boosts the economy, but aircraft noise is a problem. It pollutes the environment in communities such as Whitecrook, Linnvale and Drumry, which are in my constituency. How can the problems that are caused by aircraft noise be mitigated through discussions that the First Minister may have with BAA and the airline operators? Does the First Minister's Government have any intention of progressing the issue?

The First Minister:

Legitimate and serious concerns exist about environmental damage, which can be caused in a number of ways. When I consider the matters that have been raised, I will do my absolute best to reconcile the points that Lewis Macdonald has made and the point that Des McNulty has just made. Some people might see them as being directly contradictory, but on balance and on the whole we can judge such things in the best interests of the Scottish people.

Meeting suspended until 14:15.

On resuming—