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Chamber and committees

Meeting of the Parliament

Meeting date: Thursday, April 2, 2015


Contents


First Minister’s Question Time


Engagements

I think that I know the answer to this one. To ask the First Minister what engagements she has planned for the rest of the day. (S4F-02718)

Engagements to take forward the Government’s programme for Scotland and a trip to Manchester for the general election leaders’ debate.

Kezia Dugdale

The First Minister has claimed that electing more Scottish National Party MPs will deliver full powers for Scotland. On Monday, her deputy said that a legislative process would need to be gone through to make that a reality. Within 100 days of taking office, a Labour Government will bring forward a home rule bill to put the Smith agreement powers, and more, into law. Will the First Minister confirm whether her MPs will table amendments to that bill to legislate for full fiscal autonomy within the United Kingdom?

The First Minister

First, we will be happy to support any bill that transfers powers from Westminster to the Scottish Parliament. Secondly, yes, SNP MPs will seek to strengthen any Labour bill—or, indeed, any Tory bill—to bring more powers to the Scottish Parliament. I guess that the question for Kezia Dugdale is whether Labour will support the SNP’s amendments to strengthen this Parliament even further.

Kezia Dugdale

That was not quite a straight answer to a simple and straight question. Full fiscal autonomy is the SNP’s central general election demand. The First Minister said earlier this week on the radio that it is what she wants, so I will give her another chance to be straight with the people of Scotland. She supports full fiscal autonomy within the UK and there will be a legislative mechanism by which it could be delivered, so will the SNP table amendments to the home rule bill to deliver it?

The First Minister

First of all, let us see whether Labour, if it is in government, introduces the bill, because Scotland is very used to Labour broken promises when it comes to delivering anything for Scotland.

Secondly, the SNP stands for independence—I do not think that that is any secret—and, yes, short of independence, we stand for maximum powers for this Parliament. That is what we will argue for.

Let me throw back a challenge to Kezia Dugdale. SNP MPs in the House of Commons will also argue and vote for a real alternative to the £30 billion of austerity cuts that Labour has signed up to. Will Labour MPs back that? We will also vote for an end to the grotesque proposal to spend £100 billion on renewing Trident on the Clyde. Will Labour back that?

Kezia Dugdale

The First Minister cannot bring herself to say the words “full fiscal autonomy”. It defies belief. It seems that the SNP is developing a bad habit of concealing its plans for imposing even more austerity on the people of Scotland. [Interruption.]

Order.

Kezia Dugdale

We know that the SNP’s plan for full fiscal autonomy would impose extra cuts worth £7.6 billion on Scotland. That is billions of pounds of cuts to our schools, national health service and pensions. It is also 138,000 jobs.

In this chamber on 19 March, the First Minister said of George Osborne’s budget:

“there is plenty that I would choose to reverse, starting with the austerity cuts that are going to be deeper than anything that we have seen before.”—[Official Report, 19 March 2015; c 12.]

Will the First Minister tell us by how much spending would increase in 2015-16 under the SNP’s plans compared with under the Tories’ plans?

The only cuts on the horizon—[Interruption.]

Order.

The First Minister

The only cuts on the horizon for Scotland are the £30 billion cuts that the Tories have proposed and Labour has signed up to. Scotland’s share of those £30 billion cuts would be £2.4 billion. That is the reality.

I have proposed an alternative to that. I have made a proposal for modest spending increases in the next Parliament that would deliver additional spending of more than £140 billion. That is the alternative to the £30 billion cuts that Labour has signed up to over the next two years. There is the choice that people face. It is very clear. They can vote for Labour, the Tories or the Liberals for more austerity cuts or they can vote SNP for a clear alternative to austerity.

Kezia Dugdale

We know from the SNP’s plans that it does not plan to spend a single extra penny—zero, nada, zilch—more than the Tories in 2015-16. I cannot work out what has forced such a radical change in the SNP’s economic thinking. It tells us that it is anti-austerity, but it does not plan to spend a single penny more than the Tories; it tells us that it stands for public services, but it cut education spending, which is something that even the Tories did not do; and it says that it is for full fiscal autonomy within the UK, but it will not tell us when. The SNP will not come clean because it knows that full fiscal autonomy would be a disaster for our schools, our national health service, our young, our elderly, our working families, our unemployed, our sick and every citizen in this country.

At the weekend, the First Minister talked a lot about guts and backbone. Where is the backbone to push for the full fiscal autonomy within the UK that she says she believes in? Why does she not have the guts to admit that the SNP’s plan for full fiscal autonomy would be a disaster for Scotland’s public services?

Let me set out a few facts. [Interruption.]

Order.

The First Minister

First, we will spend, under our existing powers and resources, an extra £600 million in the next financial year.

On Monday, I listened to Gordon Brown. I must say that, even for him, he took sleight of hand to a whole new level. He was promising to spend in the next financial year the revenue from tax increases proposed by Labour that will not take effect until the following financial year. That is some nerve, even for Gordon Brown.

Rubbish!

Order.

The First Minister

Of course, what Gordon Brown did not say was that the so-called extra spending for Scotland will pale into insignificance compared with the £30 billion cuts that Labour has signed up to. Labour can duck and dive, but the Scottish people have Labour’s measure. They know that Labour is proposing further austerity and they know that the SNP is the only alternative to Tory, Labour and Liberal austerity.


Secretary of State for Scotland (Meetings)

To ask the First Minister when she will next meet the Secretary of State for Scotland. (S4F-02715)

I have no plans to do so.

Ruth Davidson

This week, more than 100 job creators signed a letter saying that the Conservative-led Government has been good for business, good for jobs and good for Britain. Those companies employ more than half a million people across the United Kingdom, including thousands right here in Scotland. Apart from Jim McColl, will the First Minister tell us what businesses have come out publicly for her alternative plan of full fiscal autonomy?

The First Minister

Over the next few weeks, we will see what the people of Scotland—the ordinary voters the length and breadth of this country—think about the Tory Government’s record and about whether another Tory Government would be good for Scotland. The people of Scotland have taken a clear position for my entire lifetime: they have rejected the Tories, because they know that the Tories are disastrous for Scotland.

Ruth Davidson

That was pretty clear—no businesses have come out for full fiscal autonomy. You do not need a whole front page for that.

There is a very simple bottom line. Job creators are telling the world that Conservative policies across Britain have shown that the UK is open for business. [Interruption.]

Order.

Ruth Davidson

Those policies have delivered 174,000 extra jobs in Scotland and 57,000 fewer jobseekers and have created 38,000 more businesses.

At this election, Scotland faces a choice: back to work with the Conservatives or back to economic chaos with Labour, this time with the Scottish National Party holding it to ransom. [Interruption.]

Order. Let us hear Ruth Davidson.

Ruth Davidson

It is no wonder that job creators do not support the SNP’s plans, because they spell double trouble for our country. Between them, the parties to my left are threatening more borrowing, no cap on benefits and tax rises across the board when what we need right now is stability and security. Does the First Minister believe that any pact with this Labour Party could possibly deliver that?

The First Minister

Ruth Davidson talks about more borrowing. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, who is a member of her party, has missed his own financial targets in the current Parliament to the tune of £150 billion. That is the reality of Tory stewardship of the economy.

I will let Ruth Davidson into a wee secret, which I suspect will come as a deep disappointment to her. She is wasting her time in trying to convince me to vote Tory or that the Tories are good for Scotland—it ain’t going to work. I suggest that she takes her message to the people of Scotland and sees what they think. The polls right now are showing what they think. The SNP is leading the general election polls in Scotland, although I take nothing for granted.

People in Scotland know that, if they vote SNP, they will get a loud voice for Scotland in the House of Commons and progressive politics. That is better than anything that the Tories, the Liberals or Labour have ever offered Scotland.

Mark McDonald (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)

Today is world autism awareness day. Does the First Minister agree with the call that was made during yesterday’s members’ business debate to make Scotland an autism-friendly nation? Will she congratulate the hard-working staff of the Scottish Parliament, which has become the first public building in Scotland to achieve the autism access award?

The First Minister

On world autism awareness day, I state that I share the aspiration of making Scotland an autism-friendly nation and give my commitment that the Scottish Government will continue to support the work of autism charities to increase awareness and understanding of autism across all sectors. The Government is committed to the delivery of the Scottish strategy for autism and is working with autism charities and statutory organisations to build awareness.

I congratulate the Scottish Parliament on being the first building in Scotland to be awarded the National Autistic Society’s autism access award. All sectors of Scottish society should recognise and understand the needs of people with autism, and it is fitting that the Scottish Parliament should be the first to receive the award. I call on all sectors of Scottish society to work with us in making Scotland an autism-friendly nation.


Cabinet (Meetings)

To ask the First Minister what issues will be discussed at the next meeting of the Cabinet. (S4F-02713)

Matters of importance to the people of Scotland.

Willie Rennie

Last week, I told the First Minister that people were waiting up to an hour to have their calls answered at the police control centre at Bilston Glen. Police Scotland dismissed my concerns, saying that calls are answered within a minute. That turns out to be true, because they are answered by an automated machine. A police call handler told me that people can wait an age to speak to a human after they have pressed the right button. Sergeant Murray McKenzie told the police conference that

“supersize control rooms are a disaster”

and

“calls are constantly lost.”

I told the First Minister about that last week. Since then, what has she done about it?

The First Minister

After First Minister’s questions last week, I made inquiries, as I told Willie Rennie I would. I found out that one caller was, unfortunately, left on the line for 58 minutes while making a 101 call. That was due to a technical fault that caused the call to repeatedly drop to the end of the queue. The issue has been resolved and the chief constable has personally apologised to the individual concerned in that case.

On average, 101 calls to Bilston Glen are answered within a minute. As I said last week, the Scottish Government will continue to work with Police Scotland, police officers and those who answer the calls to make sure that the service that members of the public get is of a quality that they have a right to expect.

Willie Rennie

I think that the First Minister needs to look into the veracity of the explanation that she has been provided with. It is unacceptable to say that there is a queue that lasts only a minute when it is an automated machine that answers. She needs to ask more questions of the police.

I have been contacted not just by members of the public but by call handlers, and we heard what Sergeant McKenzie said this week at the police conference. I am increasingly concerned about the integrity and practices of the leadership of Police Scotland. The First Minister heard loud and clear yesterday at the conference that, on stop and search, on guns, on the information commissioner and on targets, the leadership of Police Scotland seems incapable of being straight with its answers. That is also now the case on control rooms. Her Government created the single, centralised police force; what is the First Minister going to do to fix it?

The First Minister

As I will always do if concerns are raised at First Minister’s questions, I will look into those concerns. I give Willie Rennie an undertaking that I will look into the additional concerns that he has raised this week, as I did last week.

Like Willie Rennie and Ruth Davidson, I was at the Scottish Police Federation conference yesterday, and, yes, we heard concerns about a range of issues, but we also heard—and I think that we should all reflect on this—about the good work in very difficult circumstances that our police officers do each and every single day.

Let me take stop and search as an example—and I think that it is an example that illustrates the fact that when concerns are raised, they are responded to and actioned. This week, we have seen Police Scotland move to a presumption against non-statutory stop and search and remove the performance target around stop and search that has been causing concern. I welcome those actions. We have also heard Police Scotland undertake to implement all the recommendations of the report that Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary in Scotland published on Tuesday this week.

The Cabinet Secretary for Justice has set up an advisory group, chaired by John Scott QC, to look at the longer-term issues around stop and search and how we move forward on that issue on a basis, as far as possible, of consensus, so that the public have confidence, Parliament has confidence and the police have the flexibility to do their job in the way that we expect them to do it.

I would hope that Willie Rennie would take all of that as a sign that we respond to concerns that are raised, and we do so in a very constructive way.


Meningitis B (Babies)

To ask the First Minister what steps the Scottish Government is taking to protect babies from meningitis B. (S4F-02727)

The First Minister (Nicola Sturgeon)

Meningitis B can be devastating for children and for families. The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation has recommended that babies from two months old should be vaccinated against the disease. I am very pleased to confirm that Scotland will be one of the first countries in the world to offer a meningitis B vaccine as part of our routine childhood vaccination programme.

Jim Eadie

I thank the First Minister for that answer. Does she agree with the World Health Organization that immunisation is a proven, safe and cost-effective tool for controlling and eliminating life-threatening infectious diseases, thereby saving millions of lives every year? Given that meningitis B is life threatening and is most common in babies and young children, does she agree that the roll-out of the vaccine is a significant step in making meningitis B a disease of the past, along with polio and tetanus? Can she provide more detail on what specific age groups will be covered by that vaccination in order to save lives and tackle the effects of meningitis B?

The First Minister

A total of three doses of the meningitis B vaccine will be given. They will be given at two, four and 12 months of age. All babies who are aged two months at the point of the programme’s introduction will be eligible for the vaccine and, as advised by the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation, there will also be a one-off catch-up programme for babies aged three and four months when the programme begins.

The programme has the real potential to save lives, and I know that everybody across the chamber will welcome it.

Another life-threatening disease is meningitis W. Will the vaccine for that be offered in Scotland to teenagers?

The First Minister

As Elaine Smith will be aware, we follow the advice of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation when it comes to the vaccines that are offered in Scotland. The decision around meningitis B flows from the recommendation that JCVI has made. We will continue, across a whole range of illnesses and diseases for which there are vaccinations, to follow that expert advice, and we will seek to apply it as quickly as possible.


Domestic Abuse

To ask the First Minister what services will be supported by the recently announced £20 million to help tackle domestic abuse. (S4F-02714)

The First Minister (Nicola Sturgeon)

The £20 million that I announced reflects my commitment to create a fairer and more equal Scotland. Subject to discussion with both justice agencies and victims’ organisations, the funds will be invested over the next three years in a range of measures to benefit victims, and in particular victims of domestic abuse. It will help to speed up the court process, increase access to specialist advocacy support and legal services and expand innovative initiatives such as the Caledonian system, which helps offenders to change their behaviour and reduce harm to victims. We will also look to improve education and understanding that violence and abuse are unacceptable in modern Scotland.

The funding follows the launch last week of our consultation on measures to strengthen the criminal law against domestic abuse and sexual offences, including plans for a specific domestic abuse offence.

Malcolm Chisholm

I am sure that the First Minister supports the Edinburgh domestic abuse court service, which helps to ensure the safety of women who are experiencing domestic abuse as well as ensure their access to justice. However, does she realise that the service, which is run by Edinburgh Women’s Aid, is facing a shortfall of £147,000 from 1 June? Will she therefore use some of the domestic abuse money to ensure that the service does not shrink to a dangerous extent?

The First Minister

I am aware of the Edinburgh domestic abuse court service and the shortfall in funding that Malcolm Chisholm has mentioned. When I spoke last week—in fact, a week ago today—at the Scottish Women’s Aid conference, that specific issue was raised with me, and I undertook then to look into the matter further. Such is the value that I attach to the Edinburgh domestic abuse court service, which is delivering exactly the kinds of services that I am talking about and which I want to be expanded, that this morning I wrote to the service, confirming that the Government will meet the shortfall and allow it to continue. [Applause.]

Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP)

In 2012-13, the police in Scotland recorded 60,000 incidents of domestic abuse, which is an increase of less than 1 per cent since 2011-12. Does the First Minister agree with those who think that that is likely to be an underestimate and that further work is required to work out the true extent of the problem?

The First Minister

Yes. I think that the figures that are recorded and published will be an underestimate of the true picture. The Scottish Government recognises that the 60,000 incidents of domestic abuse that the police recorded in 2012-13 are not the whole picture and that even though the police record all incidents of domestic abuse, there will still be victims who do not come forward. We are aware of the complexities surrounding domestic abuse, and that is exactly why we launched our recent consultation on reforming the criminal law to address domestic abuse and sexual offences. As we know, some domestic abuse incidents do not fit easily within the current law, and that is why we are looking at the creation of a specific criminal offence of domestic abuse. I hope that everyone with an interest in the matter will respond to the consultation to ensure that we can go forward with action that makes prosecuting this kind of offending behaviour more effective and which better reflects the true nature of domestic abuse as it is actually experienced by victims.

Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)

Although I welcome the additional funding that has been announced, I remind the First Minister that the joint strategic board tasked with the implementation of “Equally Safe” was supposed to provide an interim report by international women’s day on 8 March. However, that has not happened. When will the membership of the board be published? When will it meet for the first time? Finally, when can we expect an interim report?

The First Minister

We are taking all of that work forward as quickly as possible but I note that, since “Equally Safe” was published on 25 June last year, positive progress has been made in a number of key areas, including the commitments that were made in the programme for government and the consultation that I have already referred to. That progress also includes the additional resources that the courts and the Crown Office have put in place to speed up the processing of cases, Police Scotland’s piloting of a disclosure scheme for domestic abuse in two locations—Aberdeen and Ayrshire—and our announcement of additional funding for tackling domestic abuse. Those are some examples of the progress that has been made, but Rhoda Grant is right: we have to ensure that that progress continues to move forward, and I will ensure that the relevant minister keeps the Parliament fully up to date with the progress of this work.

Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)

Although the funding that has been announced is welcome, will the First Minister confirm that, because the majority of sentences given to domestic abuse offenders are short term, they will not be affected by the proposed Government legislation to end automatic early release, which applies only to long-term prisoners?

The First Minister

Margaret Mitchell knows that at this stage we propose to end automatic early release for long-term prisoners. We are the first Government to take action to reverse the policy, which was, of course, introduced by a Conservative Government, and to be able to do it, we have had to invest in the prison estate, which is something that previous Conservative Governments completely failed to do. Our objective remains to end the policy of automatic early release completely as soon as we are able to. This Government is making progress on that, and I hope that members across the chamber will welcome that.

However, although sentencing in relation to violence against women and domestic abuse is very important, we also need to look at how we prevent abuse, support victims better and change the behaviour of offenders. That is why our strategy to tackle domestic abuse and the funding that I am talking about are comprehensive. Sentencing is important, but we have to do a whole range of other things much better, too.

Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)

I very much welcome the announcement of the funding and I acknowledge that the majority of victims are women, but there are male victims of domestic abuse. Will the First Minister ensure that they receive support and that any proposed legislation reflects the fact that domestic abuse can happen to men as well as women?

The First Minister

We have to recognise—and the Scottish Government certainly does recognise—that the overwhelming majority of victims of domestic abuse are women. However, that said, men can also be subjected to that intolerable behaviour and we know that there can be difficulties in reporting where there are male victims of domestic abuse. So, I encourage all victims, regardless of their age or gender, to come forward and report any incident of domestic abuse. As I have said, the additional £20 million of funding will be invested in a range of measures, including widening access to specialist advocacy and support services for victims.

However, this Government is the first in Scotland to have made provision specifically for male victims of domestic abuse. We funded the men’s advice line, which provides emotional support and advice for male victims, and we have funded Abused Men in Scotland to help improve mainstream service responses to men who experience domestic abuse. The LGBTI domestic abuse project to raise awareness of domestic abuse in gay relationships is also supported by the Government. We will continue to take that comprehensive action, but we will also continue to recognise that, unfortunately, the vast majority of victims of domestic abuse are women and that that is what we have got to tackle effectively if we are ever to have true gender equality in this country, which is something that I want—as I know everybody wants—to see.


Broadcasters (Political Interference)

To ask the First Minister whether the Scottish Government respects the right of broadcasters such as the BBC to be free from political interference. (S4F-02722)

Yes.

Murdo Fraser

I thank the First Minister for her straight answer. I hope that she would agree that it is one of the hallmarks of a liberal democracy anywhere in the world that the media has absolute freedom from political interference. Therefore, when the Scottish National Party back bencher, Alex Salmond, attacks the BBC for its coverage of the independence referendum and demands that it comes under the political control of this Parliament, is he speaking for the First Minister, her Government, the SNP or just for himself?

I think that everybody supports absolutely—I know that I do—the right of the media to be completely free of political interference. [Interruption.]

Order.

The First Minister

I suggest gently to Murdo Fraser that he might want to direct some of his comments to members of his own party. For example, I agreed with the former director general of the BBC, Greig Dyke, when he said this:

“When it comes to deciding impartiality we can’t let politicians define impartiality.”

Those remarks were made in response to threats to the BBC licence fee by Tory party chairman, Grant Shapps, as a result of his alleging that the BBC was biased.

Perhaps Murdo Fraser would also want to reflect on the fact that, after last week’s television debate, the Conservative Party press office tweeted this:

“BBC showing clear editorial bias by saying there was ‘no clear winner’ last night”.

With the greatest of respect to Murdo Fraser, I will continue to defend the right of all broadcasters and all media to be completely free of political interference, but I suggest that he gets his own house in order.

Stuart McMillan (West Scotland) (SNP)

Does the First Minister think that the BBC will report the next time that both she and I visit the Ferguson shipyard in Port Glasgow to see how Scotland’s greatest job creator, Jim McColl, and the dedicated workforce are giving the yard a secure future?

That supplementary is way, way wide of the question. I call Neil Findlay.

Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)

The media, including the BBC, will play a huge role during the general election campaign, but so will online media. Will the First Minister now show leadership and distance herself and her party from websites and blogs that revel in nasty, vindictive and gutter politics?

That is also way wide of the question. I call the First Minister.

The First Minister

I think that I might know about some of the websites and blogs that the member is talking about—they are nothing to do with this side of the chamber.

I say clearly that, as somebody who is an enthusiastic—sometimes too enthusiastic—user of social media, I will always condemn anybody from any side of politics who indulges in abuse. I did that very openly in this chamber just a couple of weeks ago.

I call on all parties to do likewise. It is not too long ago that a prominent Labour councillor in Aberdeen disgracefully accused one of my colleagues of using his child for political purposes. The response of the Labour Party was that his tweets were a matter for him.

If Neil Findlay wants to ask me to lead by example, I am happy to accept that challenge, but, a bit like I said to Murdo Fraser, I would call on Labour to get its own house in order as well.