Plenary, 01 Nov 2007

Meeting date: Thursday, November 1, 2007

Official Report 678KB pdf

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Question Time

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SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE

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Justice and Law Officers

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Wildlife Crime

To ask the Scottish Executive what plans it has to tackle the illegal poisoning of wildlife using poisoned baits that also pose a health risk to humans and domestic animals. (S3O-1035)

The Scottish Government aims to tackle the cruel and destructive practice of poisoning wildlife. First, we will ensure that detection and prosecution are consistent and robust. The inspections of the police and prosecution service that were announced at the debate in the chamber on 4 October will assist with that. Secondly, we aim to build trust among all those with an interest in the countryside, so that we can identify and work towards shared objectives. I have been encouraged by the commitment of landowners, managers, gamekeepers and, of course, non-governmental organisations in that respect. I believe that their knowledge and skills will be of great help in identifying those who commit these dreadful crimes.

Is the minister aware that a number of chemicals in the Possession of Pesticides (Scotland) Order 2005 (SSI 2005/66)—including carbofuran, mevinphos and strychnine—are classified as highly or extremely hazardous by the World Health Organization, and that some such chemicals can be absorbed through the skin? Is he aware that poisoned baits and their victims, which include wildlife, cats and dogs, have been found by members of the public, including children? The illegal use of such poisons to target wildlife poses a serious risk to people.

Does the minister agree that, in cases in which accused people were ultimately convicted of placing poisoned baits or of storing such chemicals in unsafe circumstances, the serious risk to public safety was not adequately reflected in the decision by prosecutors to accept pleas of not guilty to charges of culpably and recklessly endangering public safety?

The member makes an important point. Many of us are astonished that there has not been damage to human beings—casual passers-by—as a result of the use of such poisons. I emphasise the extreme, criminal recklessness of people who use such poisons. The point that the member makes is very much in our thoughts, and I will make sure that we continue to draw the attention of all the relevant people in the legal system to the reckless use of illegal substances.

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Domestic Abuse Court (Edinburgh)

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will establish a domestic abuse court in Edinburgh or support one if proposed by local agencies. (S3O-1038)

I set out the Scottish Government's position in a written answer on 19 September. A number of initiatives support victims of domestic abuse in Edinburgh, including space 44, the safe as houses pilot and the streetwork outreach service; and two projects work with perpetrators—the domestic violence probation project and the working with men project. All of that already makes a real contribution to the better handling of domestic abuse cases in the criminal justice system. The Scottish Government funds 11 organisations in Edinburgh that support the victims of domestic abuse. The case for any dedicated specialist domestic abuse court in Edinburgh will be better assessed once our reforms to summary justice have been fully implemented.

I have of course read the written answer, but I am sure that the cabinet secretary knows the disappointment of the groups to which he referred that a domestic abuse court would not be established in Edinburgh. Does he agree that the Glasgow domestic abuse court has been an outstanding success through its use of dedicated sheriffs and a comprehensive support package for women who are going through the court? Although I accept that there may be difficulties in replicating the Glasgow model in more sparsely populated areas, a similar domestic abuse court in Edinburgh would surely bring the same advantages of speed, support and judicial specialisation to women in Edinburgh who are suffering from domestic abuse.

The Government supports the Glasgow pilot, but we should remember that it deals only with a specific and narrow geographical area. We are assessing the pilot to see how it can be rolled out so that it becomes a proper Glasgow domestic abuse court.

Tackling domestic abuse is not simply about courts but about a variety of ways of challenging people. I mentioned the domestic violence probation project; the Solicitor General for Scotland, who is sitting on my right, recently passed me documentation relating to that. Domestic abuse is an horrendous problem that scars Scotland. Courts have to address the problem, but no one simple solution exists. We will have to look at education, targeting and support for victims, and consider all such matters in the round.

Obviously, what happens in Edinburgh will depend on a variety of matters. What is important is not simply what the Government wants but what sheriffs are capable of providing, what the core service facilities are able to deal with and what fiscals are able to cope with.

As I said in answer to Mr Chisholm previously, it would probably not be feasible to roll out domestic abuse courts in every area. Lochmaddy does not have a resident sheriff, a resident fiscal or a resident sheriff clerk. Clearly, what works in Glasgow or another major urban area is not capable of being replicated everywhere. However, members can rest assured that the Government will do everything that it can, in as many ways as possible, to address the problem of domestic abuse.

I know that resources are finite, but I encourage the minister to further consider the benefits of establishing more dedicated domestic abuse courts. I refer him to Canada, where domestic abuse courts have been in existence for quite a long time and have had a powerful and beneficial impact on families.

I know the member's commitment to this cause, as evidenced both in this session of Parliament and when he was previously a member.

The matter that we are discussing is something to which we aspire but on which we are constrained by space in some cases and by the availability of resources in others. Members who represent parts of Edinburgh would do well to remember that the Government would like to do an awful lot of things in this city but, as long as we are bound by the need to fund a tram system—which the citizens of this city do not want—at a cost of £500 million, we are prevented from providing a lot of the things that our citizens do want, including schools and domestic courts.

The minister might reflect later on what he has just said and judge how unwise it was to make that kind of comment on an issue that members across the Parliament—I acknowledge Gil Paterson's contribution—have taken seriously. Many people on my side of the chamber would wish to work closely with the minister to meet the challenges of funding any such pilot scheme and I am sure that it is an issue on which consensus could be found.

Will the minister confirm that a critical element of the success of the Glasgow pilot has been the advice, support, safety and information services together—ASSIST—project, which has not only supported women but, crucially, informed the court about the nature of domestic abuse and the element of risk that women face? Will he confirm that any roll-out of the pilot in Glasgow will continue to fund ASSIST as a central part of that and that he will ensure that that support element, including intervention in the court, will be woven into the centre of any further developments beyond Glasgow?

Johann Lamont makes a good point about ASSIST, which has performed a central function by providing support to victims of domestic abuse and providing information to the court. As I indicated, a feasibility study group is considering the options for supporting a domestic abuse court across Glasgow and has been asked to report to me in January. I know that that means that we are asking members to wait for a few months, but I assure members that matters are being addressed. I hope that we will be able to satisfy Johann Lamont.

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Underage Alcohol Consumption

To ask the Scottish Executive how it plans to deal with child welfare issues arising out of underage alcohol consumption. (S3O-1000)

It is everyone's responsibility to protect children and look out for their welfare. Families, the police and local authorities need to take the lead, supported by Government. We are taking immediate action to tackle underage and binge drinking. We are continuing implementation of the Licensing (Scotland) Act 2005, ending irresponsible promotions, rolling out test purchasing for alcohol and overhauling the offences of selling and supplying alcohol to children. As agreed by the Parliament last week, we will convene a summit to consider proposals for tackling underage drinking as part of our long-term strategy to tackle alcohol misuse. We will do so with the full support and assistance of members across the chamber.

I welcome the proposals for the summit. As part of those considerations, would the minister be willing to consider a zero-tolerance approach, as adopted in Sweden? If we are to be as successful in our aims as Sweden has been, a zero-tolerance approach must be taken not only by the authorities but by society. How would the minister encourage society to adopt the zero-tolerance approach to this problem?

First, we have to recognise, as a country, that there is a problem. Thankfully, from the tenor of the debate, I think that all parties in the chamber recognise that there is a problem.

We are dealing with a cultural problem, so the answers will have to be long-term ones. They will also require efforts that go beyond legislation. We are trying to make it quite clear that it is not only selling alcohol to youngsters that is an offence but supplying it to them. We have the tragedy in some places of people providing children with alcohol, either because they are given inducements, or because they benignly think that they are helping the children and doing them a favour. We have to make it clear that we will not accept the selling or supplying of alcohol to youngsters. We hope that that will come out at the summit.

We have to work with partners in the chamber and with licensing boards in particular. The powers that the 2005 act brings in will greatly enhance what the boards can do. The Government—and I hope that we will be supported on this by the other parties—will encourage licensing boards to deal with the matter effectively and not to countenance the appalling abuse that has been going on. It is also up to every adult in Scotland to realise that our behaviour is to some extent being mimicked by our youngsters. Until adults in Scotland learn that there is a problem and that we have to change, we cannot berate youngsters, because they are copying their elders.

Will the minister provide statistics for the number of adults who have been referred to the procurator fiscal for selling alcohol to young people? Will he confirm that additional resources will be provided to police forces throughout Scotland to ensure that they detect those individuals in the first place and to ensure that the legislation that we passed to allow for the possibility of imprisonment for such adults is taken forward?

I do not have the information to hand regarding the number of prosecutions, but I will write to the member with that. Regarding additional resources, the member will be aware—indeed, he has never hesitated to point out to us that he raised the matter—that the polluter should pay. We are happy to work with him on that. It appears to us that additional resources are required. Those who profit from the sale of alcohol should realise that it is not a God-given right to be able to sell alcohol. They should be required to face the consequences and meet the costs, whether those are to do with health, criminal justice or other areas. I look forward to working with the member to ensure that those additional resources are available to our licensing boards and to encourage the boards to use them.

In a recent report in the Highland News, it was revealed that, in Inverness, children as young as 10 suffer from alcohol problems. What measures has the Scottish Government taken to ensure that sheriff courts and children's panels have adequate means to inform the children with alcohol problems who appear before them of the range of services that is provided by Alcoholics Anonymous?

That is a matter of the Government seeking to work with our partner agencies and, in particular, social work departments. We have to remember—especially given the age group that the member mentioned—that these are children. We do not seek to prosecute children, except when they commit horrendous offences and have to be prosecuted. We must treat them as children. The problem is that sometimes they do not deserve any sympathy, and it is hard to give them sympathy. However, we have to remember that these are children who are copying what has been done by adults for generations, and who are accessing alcohol that—as a result of legislation that they have not decided on—is far too easily available to them. It is up to us as adults, particularly in social work departments and in the Government, to address the issue. We have to keep in mind the maxim and the ethos that these are children whom we need to protect, not people whom we need to punish.

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Crime

To ask the Scottish Executive how it plans to fight crime in Scotland's communities. (S3O-1042)

We shall tackle crime in Scotland's communities through tackling the root causes of crime—drink, drugs and deprivation; through tackling organised crime through the work of the serious organised crime task force; and through delivering effective, visible front-line policing to address the fear of crime and to deter criminals.

The recent evaluation of the Scottish Executive's community warden scheme by GEN Consulting concluded that there was evidence from a number of sources that wardens were having a positive impact on the quality of life in their target areas, leading to reductions in crime and antisocial behaviour. Will the minister confirm that funding will continue for community wardens after March 2008? Presuming that the minister agrees with the First Minister that such schemes complement the work of police officers, does he agree that such schemes should be rolled out across Scotland in tandem with the Scottish Government's promise to have 1,000 extra police officers on the front line by 2011?

This Government recognises that community wardens play a key role. I witnessed that for myself when I met community wardens in Glasgow. I saw that they had created a better understanding of their role. Societies and communities throughout Scotland are beginning to appreciate the role of community wardens and the work that they do to reach out to communities and tackle crime, particularly minor crime. Patricia Ferguson asks whether I agree with the First Minister. I regularly agree with the First Minister and very rarely disagree with him.

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Fines (Collection)

To ask the Scottish Executive, with the exception of fines imposed for breaches of health and safety at work legislation, what the total monetary value of fines imposed by Scottish courts has been in the last three financial years and what percentage of that figure has been collected. (S3O-1022)

Fines totalling £49.6 million were imposed between 2004-05 and 2006-07 in the High Court and sheriff courts, and £38.3 million has been collected. That equates to a collection rate of 77 per cent. Those figures exclude any fines in excess of £5,000, so significant health and safety fines are not included.

Health and safety fines are the easiest to collect.

Is the minister not concerned that £11.3 million remains uncollected and that, as a result, the impact of the courts' disposals is lost? Does he not agree with a point that I have made previously, which is that the simple solution is to collect the fines by means of deduction from benefits, or from salaries and wages when the convicted person is in employment?

I agree with Bill Aitken's ethos that if a fine is imposed by a court on someone who has the ability to pay, that fine should be paid. For that reason, when we were in opposition we supported the previous Executive in rolling out legislative changes to introduce fines enforcement officers and allow deductions to be made from benefits.

It is important to get the statistics right and acknowledge that about 80 per cent of the value of financial penalties imposed in the sheriff courts and High Court has been collected successfully in recent years. Of the remaining 20 per cent, 12 per cent was discharged by the defaulter serving a sentence of imprisonment—that matter is being tackled; 3.5 per cent was discharged by the defaulter undertaking a supervised attendance order, which is a sensible way to go; and 3 per cent was discharged by judicial order, death of the accused or successful appeal. All that was unrecovered was the 1.5 per cent that was written off. I made this point to the member earlier: it depends on whether we see the glass as being half full or half empty. It seems to me that if 98.5 per cent of the value of fines imposed is being collected, that is not bad.

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Aberdeen Prison

To ask the Scottish Executive what account it took of the views of Aberdeen prison visiting committee in making its decision on the closure of Aberdeen prison. (S3O-1058)

We took the decision to replace Aberdeen and Peterhead prisons knowing that it would not be possible to please everybody. We decided that there would be a new public sector prison to meet the needs of the north-east of Scotland. That has ended nearly a decade of uncertainty for staff and for the local communities.

I am sure that the cabinet secretary recognises that serious issues are involved. Will he urge the First Minister to agree to meet Aberdeen prison visiting committee, which asked for a meeting four weeks ago, to address its concerns about the impact of the closure of Aberdeen prison on the rehabilitation of those held in prison? Will he also acknowledge the concerns about remand prisoners travelling 40 miles each way every time they attend court in Scotland's third largest city? In that context, will he consider sympathetically the case that has been made by the visiting committee for a modern, purpose-built remand centre in the city of Aberdeen?

I am obviously not in charge of the First Minister's diary, and he is extremely busy. I will leave that matter to him and those who represent him.

On Friday, I attended the annual conference of the Prison Officers Association Scotland. On behalf of the Government, I was delighted to pass on, both to my party's conference and to the First Minister, the association's hearty congratulations to the Scottish National Party Government on delivering on its manifesto commitments. I rest my case.

Other than those from the prison visiting committee, what representations has the cabinet secretary had to retain a prison in Aberdeen?

We heard substantial representations from those who work in the sector. We also had representations from Aberdeen City Council and from Aberdeenshire Council, but they were not exactly singing from the same hymn sheet; there was a difference of views. The matter was discussed and debated. I told the Prison Officers Association and those representing Aberdeen that we welcomed and appreciated their hard work over the years but that a decision had to be made and we believe that the correct one has been made.

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Finance and Sustainable Growth

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Tourism (Antonine Wall)

To ask the Scottish Executive what assessment it has made of the tourism impact of achieving world heritage site status for the Antonine wall. (S3O-1024)

If the Antonine wall becomes a world heritage site, I expect to see significant community, educational and tourism benefits. That is the predominant experience of most other world heritage sites.

Is the minister aware that, within the Central Scotland region that I represent, numerous communities such as Cumbernauld, Falkirk, Bo'ness and Kirkintilloch are located along the wall and could derive huge economic benefit from the increased tourism revenue that world heritage site status could bring? Can the minister confirm that, if the bid succeeds, the Scottish Government will commit to providing the necessary support for those communities to ensure that they are in a position to realise that economic benefit?

The bid is currently part of a transnational world heritage site movement to recognise the frontiers of the Roman empire. We are in the happy position of being able to meld those communities into our overall tourism planning, and to look to the precedent that has been created in Europe, where the frontiers of the Roman empire have already attracted European funding from the Culture 2000 programme. We expect to be able to go to that source of funding as a top priority.

When the Antonine wall is given world heritage site status, as I am sure it will be, will the Government ensure that funding will come from the Government to the local authorities to enable them to market the many worthwhile tourist attractions that they have along the wall?

That is an operational matter for VisitScotland and we will be working closely with it on the issue, looking, as always, to ensure that we maximise every aspect of the Scottish tourism offering.

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Economic Growth (Islands)

To ask the Scottish Executive what action it is taking to encourage economic growth on islands such as Luing in Argyll. (S3O-1026)

Economic development on Scotland's islands is the responsibility of Highlands and Islands Enterprise, which operates on the principles of balanced development across the entire Highlands and Islands area. Achieving that desired balanced growth requires resources to be targeted towards the less prosperous parts of the area, which is reflected in Highlands and Islands Enterprise's resource allocation model.

Will the minister acknowledge that good transport links are one of the fundamental priorities in helping to boost economic growth on islands such as Luing? I know that he will be aware of the campaign to secure a fixed link for the crossing to Luing. Will he assure me that financial support for such a link will be made available as a result of the imminent Scottish budget statement, to add to the money that the Highlands and Islands strategic transport partnership has ring fenced for that project?

I am very much aware of the issues raised by the people of Luing about the proposal for a fixed link to the island. I am also aware of the final Scottish transport appraisal guidance report that was presented to Argyll and Bute Council in April 2007. The council submitted that report to Transport Scotland, which is now actively considering it. Until the STAG appraisal has been completely assessed by Transport Scotland, any commitment from the Government would be premature, but I assure the member that the matter will be considered as urgently as possible.

Would the economic development of islands be aided by a planning regime that made it easier for islanders to build homes on their islands rather than having to leave because of the inflexible application of planning rules by officials, which leads to people having to go to the mainland or even abroad?

The Government has the greatest intention to encourage economic development in our island communities. Indeed, present at the convention of the Highlands and Islands on Sunday evening and Monday were Mr Mather, as the Minister for Enterprise, Energy and Tourism, but also with a constituency interest as the member for Argyll, me, Mr Stevenson and the First Minister. We heard at first hand of the aspirations in our island communities to guarantee that they are able to deliver and experience greater economic growth.

Undoubtedly, the point that Mr Gibson makes is eminently fair. If appropriate housing is available for people who want to live and continue to live on our islands, and to find economic opportunities on the islands, the Government will be at one with them in that respect.

The announcements yesterday by the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing assist us in establishing a coherent approach to the development of social housing throughout Scotland, whether urban or rural. I give Parliament the assurance that Mr Stevenson and I will look carefully at planning issues to guarantee that that approach can be efficiently and effectively developed.

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Voluntary Organisations (Funding)

To ask the Scottish Government what action it plans to take to ensure the financial sustainability of voluntary organisations. (S3O-1012)

The Scottish Government supports the principles of the Scottish compact and is determined to ensure best practice in funding for the third sector. We support the practice of three-year funding and will encourage the use of longer-term funding agreements across the public sector, where possible, to provide a stable and efficient operating environment for the sector.

I draw the cabinet secretary's attention to the problems experienced by some voluntary organisations in my constituency, particularly the Princess Royal Trust for Carers and Advocacy Into Action. Although those organisations have three-year service agreements with the local authority, they are not being provided with any financial uplift in council funding over those three years, which means that they have to meet the gap in funding.

Does the minister agree that such practice undermines the important role of voluntary organisations? What action does the Government intend to take to ensure that local organisations get the financial uplift to which they are entitled?

As I said in my first answer to Mr Matheson, it is important that voluntary organisations that operate in the fashion that he suggests are properly and effectively supported. The argument that I hear frequently from voluntary sector organisations is about their desire to have three-year funding to ensure that they have stability in their financial planning. Obviously, financial settlements have to be fair so that account is taken of the development of costs over time.

I place on record my view that voluntary sector organisations are well equipped to deliver some of the support required in public sector activity and, although I do not wish to comment on the specific case that Mr Matheson raised in his question, where we ask voluntary sector organisations to perform particular roles in the delivery of public services, they should be properly remunerated for that. The direction of Government policy is designed to support that approach.

I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for indicating his desire to achieve sustainability for third sector organisations. Neither his colleague, the Minister for Communities and Sport, nor the First Minister could give me a guarantee that the community regeneration fund would continue. Therefore, can he end the uncertainty for organisations that depend on that money to keep them going through the year, or is he content to see those organisations send out redundancy notices with their Christmas cards next month, as one of the organisations put it to me?

As an experienced former Government minister, Patricia Ferguson will understand the situation that the Government is in. We have a budget to announce two weeks yesterday, so we must be in a position to set out our budget proposals in an orderly fashion—I would have thought that Patricia Ferguson, of all members of the Parliament, would have understood that—and that is exactly what the Government will do.

I reiterate a point that I have made on countless occasions, which is that the Government is determined to support the voluntary sector. We will do that as effectively as we can within what is—I put it on record again—the worst financial settlement since devolution.

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Scottish Budget (Manifesto Commitments)

To ask the Scottish Executive which Scottish National Party manifesto commitments will not be provided for in the Scottish budget. (S3O-1051)

I will set out our spending plans to deliver on this Government's purpose, its five strategic objectives and our manifesto commitments on 14 November.

I note that, in her comments yesterday, the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing said that a first-time buyers grant of £2,000 was still under consideration. Is the first-time buyers grant under consideration as a specific spending commitment for the forthcoming budget, which will lay out spending commitments over the next three years, or has that pledge been ditched on the road back from the SNP conference in Aviemore?

I thought that the Deputy First Minister dealt effectively with all issues relating to the housing policy proposals that will be consulted on, which were set out yesterday. Labour members do plenty of moaning about a lack of consultation, but when the Government is prepared to consult on an issue, they are not happy, either. I simply state that the Government will set out its spending plans on 14 November. A clear statement will be made on how the Government intends to take forward its programme in the years to come.

The minister will know that the Scottish Police College at Tulliallan castle is in my constituency. What extra financial provisions have been made to help the college meet the demand for extra recruits that the commitment in the SNP's manifesto to provide an extra 1,000 police officers created?

Mr Tolson will know from what I have said to other members that the spending review will set out exactly how the Government intends to deliver on our manifesto commitments in the period ahead. We will do that timeously, as I promised the Parliament that we would—we will produce our proposals on 14 November.

I will not tempt fate by asking which Conservative manifesto commitments will not be provided for in the Scottish budget. Instead, I will ask about the efficiency savings that will no doubt be relied on in the budget. Will Parliament have the opportunity to study the detail of those efficiency savings prior to voting on the budget? If not, will all those savings be independently verifiable, will they all start from a clear baseline and will they all be delivered?

The Government has made no secret of the fact that we have predicated our approach on the delivery of efficiency savings of at least 1.5 per cent right across the public sector in Scotland. We will continue with the practice of tabulating and monitoring efficiency savings—which I have freely accepted was strengthened during the most recent session of Parliament—and will report accordingly. On that basis, the Parliament will be able to scrutinise the financial measures that the Government brings forward and the approach that we take to efficiency.

The efficiency agenda is central to the questions that continue to be raised about how the public finances are managed. Indeed, at our most recent meeting, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury strongly encouraged me to pursue the efficiency agenda. I am glad that he and I are on the same wavelength on that, if not on every other issue.

I note the minister's comment about moaning. There has been a fair bit of moaning about the budget settlement in Scotland. Does he agree first that, in fact, double the resources that were available to Donald Dewar's Government are available to his Government, and secondly—and more importantly—that his Government has 99.7 per cent of the funds that he thought would be available to it, according to the financial predictions in his party's manifesto? Therefore, did his party simply mislead the Scottish people in its manifesto?

As an experienced former Minister for Finance and Public Services, Mr Kerr will be aware that in this financial year the Scottish Government has at its disposal a real-terms increase in its budget of 0.5 per cent. I cannot quite remember whether Mr Kerr was the finance minister when the budget was rising by 11 per cent above inflation, but he was certainly a supporter of the Government at that time. The contrast between the days of abundant resources that the previous Administration had and the 0.5 per cent increase that this Government will have could not be greater. Because of the changes that the United Kingdom Government made to the budget process, we will have at our disposal £700 million less than was anticipated in the SNP manifesto. I highlight the fact that our baseline was reduced by £342 million, which took no account of circumstances here in Scotland.

The cabinet secretary has 99.7 per cent of the funds that he thought would be available.

Mr Kerr, you have already made that point.

Labour Party members of the Parliament have a brass neck continually interrupting me when I am trying to answer their questions, given that it was they who volunteered to suspend a mechanism to compensate Scotland for council tax benefit rising faster in England than in Scotland—a decision that is now costing Scotland £100 million a year. If that is what the Labour Party calls standing up for Scotland, it is no wonder that Labour members are now on the Opposition benches, where they belong.

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Minister for Enterprise, Energy and Tourism (Meetings)

To ask the Scottish Executive what conclusions and lessons for Scotland the Minister for Enterprise, Energy and Tourism identified in his meetings with economic, social and political representatives during his recent trip to Canada. (S3O-1005)

The lessons for Scotland that I identified on my visits to businesses and legislatures in Toronto, Edmonton, Calgary, Victoria and Vancouver over five days of the recess are as follows: first, Canadian businesses are receptive to the Government's message and will invest further in Scotland; secondly, Canadian businesses are receptive to doing more business with more Scottish companies in Canada, given the success of existing Scottish businesses and our national and business common values; thirdly, the Canadian provinces of Alberta and British Columbia are doing particularly well because they enjoy a high level of financial and fiscal autonomy, control their own resources and retain an increasingly fair share of the wealth created in their provinces; and fourthly, we saw the oil and gas royalty review in Alberta, based on a report called "Our Fair Share", in which the concept that

"Alberta's natural resources belong to Albertans"

was taken as given and tabled unchallenged.

I drew the conclusions that, first, Scotland under the SNP Government is now on the right track, and secondly, that our aspirations to emulate and exceed the powers of Canadian provinces are right, urgent and guaranteed to reward the people of Scotland.

I am glad that the minister mentioned Albertan oil. Does he agree with Peter Day, the BBC World Service presenter, who stated:

"This oil belongs to the Province of Alberta. It is making it rich: a big place with a small population of three million people. Alberta has paid off its debts and has such a budget surplus already that it has just given every provincial taxpayer a rebate cheque for 400 Canadian dollars"?

Are there lessons to be learned for Scotland from that case study?

I agree with Peter Day. The lessons for Scotland are that increased autonomy works, that autonomous, independent nations make better use of their natural resources, and that a Government such as that of Alberta can create a win-win-win-win situation, in which the Government, the taxpayer, the oil industry and the economy win. The unionist approach could never be sold to the empowered and enriched Albertans.

Was one of the minister's reflections that the years since the Liberal Party of Canada introduced fiscal federalism have brought about an economic disparity between the neverendum culture in Quebec and the fiscally devolved powers of other provinces in Canada? That shows the difference between a separatist approach and a unionist, but federal, approach, which is the approach that should be followed.

The direction of travel in Canada is much more towards our approach. The provinces of Canada are taking an increasingly independent approach. If the member does not see the validity of that, I suggest that he goes back and re-reads the paper written by Professor Ronald MacDonald, which talks about fiscal powers and independence being of primacy in the move away from the clutter and nonsense of royal commissions and the regular checking that Jeremy Purvis would have us do in a fiscal federalism that would fetter Scotland and prevent it from maintaining its maximum trajectory.