Plenary, 01 Jun 2000

Meeting date: Thursday, June 1, 2000

Official Report 617KB pdf

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First Minister's Question Time

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SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE

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Secretary of State for Scotland (Meetings)

To ask the acting First Minister when he last met the Secretary of State for Scotland and what issues they discussed. (S1F-367)

I am in regular contact with the Secretary of State for Scotland and expect to meet him on Monday at the joint ministerial committee on health.

Does the acting First Minister accept that local authority education budgets around Scotland are strapped, not least in Aberdeenshire—the only Liberal-run authority in the country—where there has been a £4 million cut to this year's education budget, which has caused great damage to the educational fabric in the north-east of Scotland? Given that many local authorities are in a similar predicament, will he accept as a point of principle that if the McCrone committee recommendations are to be fully implemented, they will have to be fully funded by additional resources from central Government?

I have had several meetings with Aberdeenshire councillors and I salute the fact that Nora Radcliffe and Mike Rumbles regularly keep me informed of what is happening there. As a result of the decisions the Executive took after the budget, some £30 million is going directly to Scottish schools. Aberdeenshire will get its full and fair share of that money.

I add my thanks to Professor Gavin McCrone and the other members of the committee for their efforts. I think that Alex Salmond knows it is a detailed and complex report and that we do no service by rushing to conclusions on it. As my colleague Sam Galbraith has said, there will be ample opportunity for consideration and consultation.

It might be helpful to answer the question. In principle, the acting First Minister owes it to the chamber to indicate to local authorities, parents and teachers whether the McCrone recommendations will be funded. Does he recall an excellent press release that he issued a couple of months ago, when he was Deputy First Minister, which demanded that the Chancellor of the Exchequer open up the war chest to fund Scottish education? Now he is in charge and speaks with the full authority of the Scottish Executive, does he still believe that the war chest should be opened up to fund Scottish education?

I certainly recall that press release—I remind Mr Salmond that I am still the Deputy First Minister. I think that he will find that in that press release I was talking about the investment of the equivalent of a penny in income tax. The consequentials that came to Scotland as a result of the budget were the equivalent of more than a penny in income tax. As I have said, a substantial part of that has gone into education as well as health, justice—for the police—and transport initiatives.

Professor McCrone is well aware that there will be discussions with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and the teaching unions about how his proposals will be taken forward.

I am fascinated by that response because the Liberal party leader in the Commons, Charles Kennedy, took a very different view on 21 March, when he pointed out that the additional education spending was worth a quarter of the value of cuts in tax that were awarded by the chancellor. Is it that Charles Kennedy speaks as a Liberal in London, but the acting First Minister is a Labour lackey in Scotland?

Will the acting First Minister address the point that concerns teachers and parents around Scotland? McCrone has said that his recommendations must be taken as a whole. The president of COSLA says that they must be funded or they will not be implemented. Will the McCrone committee's findings be implemented and funded by the Executive or not? Will he give a yes-or-no answer?

By asking for that kind of knee-jerk reaction, Mr Salmond does no justice to the complex report produced by Gavin McCrone. We have given a clear indication that we will consider and consult. That process is in hand.

On the first part of the question, I remind Mr Salmond that as a result of the budget, £86 million more has been put into education; that as a result of the coalition, £81 million of new money was put into education; and that as a result of what we have negotiated in the partnership, student tuition fees have been abolished and £50 million of new money is going into education. [Applause.]

Order. There is far too much noise. Members cannot hear one another.

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Joint Ministerial Committees

To ask the First Minister whether there are any plans for future meetings of joint ministerial committees. (S1F-363)

As I said in my answer to Mr Salmond, the joint ministerial committee on health will meet in London on Monday. The Parliament will no doubt share my delight that the devolved Northern Ireland Executive will be represented at that meeting. Further meetings of joint ministerial committees will take place over the coming months.

I welcome the participation of the Northern Ireland Executive in the meeting.

Will the subject of public consultation come up at the joint ministerial committee on health, which is the next committee to meet? Will the acting First Minister tell us a little about the Scottish consultation exercise on the health service, which I understand is forthcoming? Will it be the same as the meaningless and expensive gimmick that Alan Milburn has just launched down south?

Now that we have a devolved Parliament—which Mr McLetchie is now on record as saying he supports—I am slightly amazed that we are always being invited to copy England. We will do our thing in our own time. There has been extensive consultation on a range of health matters—there has been wide consultation with patients and staff on the future of the greater Glasgow hospital service. As we have indicated on many occasions, one of the hallmarks of this Executive is that we believe in wide consultation.

We are not asking the Executive to copy the meaningless and expensive gimmick consultation exercise that has been launched by Mr Milburn down south; we are simply asking for information about the nature of the consultation exercise here. The wider issue is whether any attention will be paid to it. Given that, this week, the Executive has ignored the views of more than 1 million Scots who want to retain section 28, what assurances can the acting First Minister give us that his so-called listening Executive will pay any more attention to what the public think about health than it has paid to what the public think about section 28?

It is clear that we have been listening, because we have introduced an amendment on statutory guidance to local authorities to the Standards in Scotland's Schools etc Bill and introduced to the Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill a section that talks about stable family life. That is a recognition that the Parliament and the Executive have been listening.

At the next JMC, will the Deputy First Minister mention that drug dealers do not recognise borders? Will he highlight the importance of the establishment of the Scottish Drugs Enforcement Agency, which will contribute to the UK's fight against drugs and ensure that dealers do not profit from their attacks on Scotland's communities?

It is clear that drug dealers do not recognise any national boundaries when they want to visit their evil deeds on communities north and south of the border, in Europe and elsewhere. That is why I particularly welcome the further announcements that have been made in connection with the Scottish Drugs Enforcement Agency and the clear commitment to target the drug barons who ply their evil trade in many of Scotland's communities.

At the next joint ministerial committee, will the acting First Minister raise any matters of Liberal Democrat policy? If he does, perhaps he could look at a recent Liberal Democrat press release, in which one of his most senior colleagues, Malcolm Bruce, a Westminster MP, said:

"The Scottish Parliament itself will not be able to meet the aspirations of the Scottish people, however, until it has control over their own revenues."

He went on to say that, without that power,

"The devolution settlement for Scotland . . . is unsustainable in the long-term."

Does Jim Wallace support the press release from the party that he leads or the brief from the Labour Government that he works for?

It is all very pathetic and interesting. Those of us who worked in the constitutional convention recognised that there would be longer-term developments in the devolution settlement—but of course the nationalists were not there to make their case.

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Volunteers Week

To ask the First Minister how the Scottish Executive intends to mark volunteers week. (S1F-365)

I understand that 18 ministers and 80 MSPs are giving at least one hour of their time to volunteering during the week. I am undertaking a number of engagements to support and promote volunteers week.

I thank the Deputy First Minister for his reply. I am glad to hear that he is not volunteering to go horse riding again next week. Will he join me in commending all those involved in voluntary work, particularly those who work with disadvantaged young people and who have acted as mentors for the new deal in Scotland, helping 20,000 young Scots back into employment? Does he agree that a properly resourced voluntary sector, working in partnership with the private and public sectors, is the best means of ensuring the type of joined-up government that will tackle social exclusion in urban and rural areas? Can the Deputy First Minister indicate what extra resources the Executive intends to provide for the voluntary sector?

I agree with Karen Gillon and join her in paying tribute to the many people the length and breadth of Scotland who volunteer. Our communities would be much the poorer without the efforts of volunteers. Today is an appropriate opportunity to put that on record.

Karen Gillon referred to the people who mentor young people and help them to take advantage of the new deal. That is a particularly useful and worthwhile form of volunteering and allows less able people to take advantage of the opportunities that exist. Karen Gillon may know that the Executive has made a commitment, with other funders, to try to create a more stable funding environment for the voluntary sector at national and local levels. The Executive has made a commitment to three-year funding. I have figures that show that £289 million each year is given for volunteering and that £6 million is given to support the voluntary sector infrastructure and central initiatives.

If I thought for a moment that the minister might be public spirited enough, I might suggest that the Executive mark volunteers week by volunteering to answer a question openly—yes or no—for the first time ever. We are sick of not getting proper, transparent information. Perhaps the Executive will volunteer to please the entire Scottish public by disappearing for a week.

Can we come to the question, please?

What does the Executive propose to do to stop the cuts in the voluntary sector—a sector that it purports to support, but does not?

The Executive has a very good record of supporting the voluntary sector. As I have already said, we want to make a commitment to three-year funding because we recognise that funding is a key issue for voluntary organisations. We are developing a more strategic approach to the funding of the voluntary sector. Dorothy-Grace Elder will also be aware that the Scottish compact commits the Scottish Executive to best practice in funding, monitoring publicly funded work and targeting resources effectively. Cumulatively, the Executive has being doing a considerable amount for the voluntary sector. However, in saying that I do not want to detract from the work the voluntary sector does to raise resources, making a valid contribution to the life of our community.

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Museums

To ask the First Minister what plans the Scottish Executive has to introduce designated status for Glasgow museums that house collections of national importance. (S1F-358)

The Executive has no plans to introduce a designation scheme for museums in Scotland.

I intended to thank the minister for his response, but as it was somewhat disappointing, I will not bother.

Does the minister agree with Glasgow City Council's convener of cultural and leisure services that

"the importance of Glasgow's collections cannot be underestimated"

and that we require urgently a

"debate at national and local level on the subject of an equitable funding structure for museums."

Does the minister accept, given that Glasgow City Council has absorbed cuts of £81 million, £43 million, £21 million and £24 million over the past four years, that the council has been forced to reduce its museums and galleries budget and staff by almost one third over that period?

Will the minister assure me that the Executive will consider seriously giving Glasgow museums and galleries of national importance the resources that are required to reach out and attract socially excluded target audiences—

Enough.

—while improving and preserving rare collections?

I would be one of the first to recognise the value of Glasgow's museums and the collections they hold. Indeed, yesterday I had an opportunity to visit St Mungo's Museum of Religious Life and Art and found it a very worthwhile experience.

As Kenny Gibson will be aware, a national cultural strategy is proposed. The broad question of funding for cultural activities, including museums at both local and national level, is being examined as part of the development of that strategy. The strategy will not address the funding of any specific museum, but it will look at the strategic approach to the funding of museums at national and local level.

Given the fact that the minister is not considering designated status, will he reconfirm his commitment to looking after national treasures? On the basis of that commitment, has he given any consideration to the fate of the Carrick? [Members: "The what?"] The Carrick.

I apologise to Mr Gallie. I, too, could not hear the question and I thought he said something completely different.

I am not in a position to make any comment or commitment with regard to that matter today.

Will the acting First Minister and the Executive consider including the Glasgow collections in the forthcoming national audit of collections, to enable the process to begin of having single, unified collections in Scotland, rather than the fragmented nature of the present museum system?

As I have indicated, the national strategy will look at a number of aspects and a wide range of cultural issues, including the funding of museums. I am not in a position to give a specific response to the question of including the Glasgow collections in the national audit, but I am sure that the debate that will follow the launch of the national cultural strategy later in the summer will allow many such important issues to be taken up.

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Local Government Finance

To ask the First Minister whether the Scottish Executive has any plans to introduce a local income tax in addition to council tax or to return non-domestic rates to council control. (S1F-360)

No.

Like Kenneth Gibson, I am not sure that I should thank the minister. However, perhaps that answer indicated a change in the Liberal flagship policy of introducing a local income tax.

Will the minister join me in condemning the leader of an SNP-controlled council for advocating such proposals and their consequential damaging effects on local economies?

I must apologise to Mr Harding also; it is becoming increasingly difficult to hear.

Mr Harding referred to local income tax being a Liberal Democrat policy. I make no bones about the fact that it remains a Liberal Democrat policy, but it was not included in the partnership agreement. Certainly it is not Liberal Democrat policy to add local income tax to the council tax, as Mr Harding seemed to suggest.

I asked whether the minister would join me in condemning the SNP—

That is not his responsibility.

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New Community Schools

To ask the First Minister what is the current position on the development of new community schools. (S1F-373)

Thirty authorities have established 37 new community school projects involving more than 150 schools. Each project has its management structures and most of its core support staff in place and has embarked on its planned work programme. The projects cover a wide range of activities including breakfast clubs, fast forward schemes to help boost reading levels, parenting courses and pupil performance monitoring systems.

I am pleased to say that the Minister for Children and Education announced yesterday that eight more new community school projects will receive funding under phase 2 of the pilot programme. A further two projects are under consideration. Decisions on them will be announced very soon.

Here comes Kenny Macintosh, the king of the planted question.

I will leave that activity to Mike Russell, thank you very much.

Will the minister consider the examples that have been set by Woodfarm High School and Thornliebank Primary School in my area when evaluating the success of the programme? In particular, will he examine the model followed by East Renfrewshire in appointing a full-time social worker as a member of the school staff? East Renfrewshire has already made remarkable progress in reducing the number of pupil exclusions. That said, I hope that whatever measures are introduced, the minister will agree that investment in the new community school programme goes to the heart of our attempts to promote social inclusion.

I certainly believe that new community schools have a valuable role in promoting social inclusion. As Mr Macintosh might know, the Scottish Executive has commissioned the Institute of Education at the University of London to carry out a national evaluation of the new community schools initiative. I am sure that the review will include the examples of good practice that he highlighted. Furthermore, it is important that we do not just review good practice, but disseminate it.

I am not sure whether that was the last question. If it was, perhaps this would be an opportunity on behalf of the Executive to thank the city of Glasgow for its co-operation during our stay. It has been much appreciated and everyone has made us feel warmly welcome.