Equal Opportunities Committee, 25 Apr 2000

Meeting date: Tuesday, April 25, 2000

Official Report 160KB pdf

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Mainstreaming

The next item deals with mainstreaming. I understand that the Procedures Committee is currently reviewing how the committees are working. Martin Verity can expand on that.

I understand that the Procedures Committee is considering a proposal at its meeting this morning that it should conduct a review of the performance of the Parliament in meeting the key objectives that were set out in the consultative steering group's report. However, the committee is not proposing to tackle equal opportunities issues directly in that review, because that would fall within the remit of this committee. We do not yet know the outcome of this morning's discussion.

You say that the Procedures Committee is examining the performance of each committee in its area.

No, I understand that it will examine the performance of the whole Parliament measured against the key principles of the Parliament, such as accessibility and accountability. I cannot say what the Procedures Committee will decide, but I understand that it will not focus on equal opportunities issues, because those fall within the remit of this committee.

I am not convinced that I am happy with that. Is that not pigeon-holing equal opportunities rather than examining the performance of the Parliament on equal opportunities and mainstreaming? Passing the issue back to the Equal Opportunities Committee does not fit with what we have been trying to do as regards mainstreaming. It is too easy to say that the Equal Opportunities Committee should deal with it. I would have real concerns about that.

I, too, have concerns, which is why I raised this issue under mainstreaming. I did not find out until this morning that the Procedures Committee was discussing it.

I agree with Shona Robison. We have already discussed mainstreaming in the context of the budget. In those discussions, it became clear that we have a massive task. However, we have made a reasonable start.

I want to raise the issue of the Standards in Scotland's Schools etc Bill, on which we have done a considerable amount of work. We did a report on the bill, but it is unfinished business. We need to ensure that our report is taken forward at stage 2. I understand that one of the amendments proposed by the Equal Opportunities Committee was defeated at the first meeting at which the Education, Culture and Sport Committee considered the bill, but there must be opportunities to lodge further amendments. I am concerned that we should engage with that process. What happened at the first meeting was not encouraging, because the amendment was defeated on the advice of the Executive. I am not sure what its reasoning was, but we will have opportunities to lodge further amendments. I am referring in particular to the general amendment that we discussed when preparing our report, which would probably involve adding a new section, which would be debated at the end of stage 2.

Ideally, committees should be considering mainstreaming for themselves, but we must keep an eye on what they are up to. It is part of our job to take mainstreaming amendments to committees. We should consider that in the near future, in the context of the Standards in Scotland's Schools etc Bill.

We did that successfully when the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill was being scrutinised by the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. There is still time to lodge committee amendments to the Standards in Scotland's Schools etc Bill, either at stage 2 or stage 3. Malcolm, do you want to find out what stage we are at and return to the committee with suggestions?

Yes, I will do that.

I think that the bill is still at stage 2. If there is not time, perhaps we could e-mail amendments on which this committee has already agreed. Is everybody happy with that?

We should also ask the Education, Culture and Sport Committee why it would not support our amendment. It would be useful to find out its reasoning.

The amendment that was not agreed was to section 1. It should still be possible to lodge other amendments. The Official Report makes it clear that that committee felt that the amendment was unnecessary. We could, no doubt, provide counter arguments.

I want to return to the issue concerning the Procedures Committee. I am bamboozled by the fact that a committee that is responsible for the procedures, systems and processes of the Parliament should consider how effective everything is without considering equality of opportunity. The extent to which procedures discriminate against particular groups, the extent to which our Parliament is family friendly and the extent to which it is accessible to outside groups are considerations that should be at the heart of that committee's remit.

I cannot understand why it wants to ignore the politics of the procedures to concentrate on such issues as how long members should be allowed to speak. That issue could be addressed in five minutes, with conclusions written on the back of an envelope. There are issues concerning the extent to which back benchers are excluded from debates, but that is a relatively simple matter. We should ask the Procedures Committee to examine the harder issues surrounding procedures, which concern equality of opportunity. Perhaps the convener could approach that committee, or this committee could write to it in puzzled tones, saying that we cannot believe what it is doing.

I heard just this morning that that is what that committee is discussing. If the committee leaves the matter to me, I shall write to the convener of the Procedures Committee to express the concern of this committee that it is not discussing equal opportunities. I shall find out exactly what is happening, as I am concerned about the situation.

Should we express our concern or our disbelief?

That depends on what the Procedures Committee has been discussing. I shall be as diplomatic as usual. Does anybody have anything more to say on mainstreaming?

In the last paragraph of the committee paper, Martin Verity alludes to the way in which we respond to consultation papers from the Executive. We must address that, not only in regard to the format in which we are expected to respond, but in regard to timetables. The situation has been far from ideal. I do not know whether we should engage in that discussion now, but we must address the issue.

It could be included in the discussion that Tricia Marwick suggested. Sometimes this committee takes on too much: we should oversee the work of other committees rather than carry out all the work ourselves. We could leave that issue to a future discussion. Today, we should find out what is happening in the Procedures Committee, as it is important to establish how that committee views equal opportunities and the work of other committees. We can include the issue that Shona Robison suggests as an item on a future agenda.