Equal Opportunities Committee, 10 Feb 2009

Meeting date: Tuesday, February 10, 2009

Official Report 173KB pdf

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Northern Ireland Assembly (Visit)

Item 3 is consideration of a paper on the committee's proposed visit to the Northern Ireland Assembly. The paper concludes with a series of questions, but before we consider them I invite members to make general remarks.

I think that we all found our visit to the National Assembly for Wales extremely worth while. I do not know whether members were surprised to learn that, like us, the Assembly has problems with mainstreaming. It was good to hear about that and about inquiries into equal opportunities matters, and it was good to consider how we can share information. Assembly members were particularly interested in our forthcoming debate on unpaid carers and are keen to receive the Official Report of the debate.

A visit to the Northern Ireland Assembly would be useful. From our visit to the National Assembly for Wales, we found that the Assembly and the Scottish Parliament face similar issues with regard to our relationship with Westminster. It would be worth our while to build on what we started in Wales. The Northern Ireland Assembly has powers that are in many ways variations of the powers that we have, so it would be useful to compare our powers and consider how we can learn from each other and establish best practice in our relationships with Westminster.

I enjoyed our visit to Cardiff and I learned a lot, but we must be careful to use visits to other Parliaments and Assemblies to consider aspects of our work that are similar. I do not doubt the worth of such visits, but their worth is limited.

However, I would be delighted if the committee could meet members of the Northern Ireland Assembly's Committee for the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister. It would be worth our while also to visit a women's prison in Northern Ireland.

That is a fair point—we must share experience on the basis of the powers that we have and not on the basis of blue-sky thinking.

Members of the Equality of Opportunity Committee in the National Assembly for Wales made interesting points about how they deal with the thorny issue of mainstreaming. There is a feeling that if the committees in Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland work together, we can underline the importance of ensuring that the equalities strand runs through all committees and is not just the responsibility of equal opportunities committees.

I would certainly want to pass on the new guidelines that we have just agreed to the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee for its consideration. Perhaps the committees in the devolved assemblies would find that helpful.

I was really impressed with what we heard about the way that the Sinn Féin, Democratic Unionist Party and other members of the Northern Irish committee work together for the good of Northern Ireland. That is excellent. One interesting fact that I learned from speaking to members of the NI committee was that they have more powers than we do in certain respects. I would be interested in considering and exploring that, as well.

To be honest, we can always find interesting discussions to have but if, by the end of the next meeting, we do not have definite things to work on and some clear objectives, it will not be worth our while to have regular meetings. We will simply have interesting discussions out of which nothing constructive comes. At the end of the meeting with the relevant committee of the Northern Ireland Assembly, we need to have some clear ideas of what we hope the three committees can achieve by coming together.

A statement came out of the previous meeting, which could be aired. That would underline what the visit to the Welsh Assembly achieved, which was considerable.

I was not at the Welsh meeting and I do not expect still to be on the committee when the Northern Irish meeting takes place, so perhaps I can apply an objective eye. I recall going, in a former life, to a joint conference in Northern Ireland for women from the Welsh Assembly, the Northern Ireland Assembly, the Scottish Parliament, the Channel Islands and Westminster. Perhaps that event, which happens regularly and goes to different places, provides the opportunity for discussion about what our powers are, how we use them and how we learn from one another. Other delegates were particularly impressed by the work that the Scottish Parliament had done on violence against women, which was a feature of that conference.

We do not need to replicate that event. My impression is that we are starting from the desire to meet and then thinking of the things that we want to do. There are interesting issues to discuss, such as how the Equality Commission for Northern Ireland operates. The circumstances are distinct, but we may be able to take from it general lessons for our work. I am not saying that we should not have a meeting, but I am not sure about setting up a structure for engagement when one already exists. It might be worth our while to consider how we feed into that existing structure.

The benefit was in meeting the members of the other committees one to one. As Sandra White said, it was amazing to see how, from the varied background of the NI committee, they had come to work together. It was also interesting to see how that had been achieved.

The added value of the proposed meeting is the fact that, if members are so inclined, we could link it to a visit to Hydebank Wood prison in Belfast, which is Northern Ireland's only prison for women offenders. I am particularly interested in the draft strategy for management of women offenders that the governor has said will be available at the end of February. It has five strands, and we could examine and discuss it in more detail in June if the visit takes place. That would be a unique opportunity to see how Northern Ireland deals with its female offenders.

Also, the committee has a long-standing commitment to hear from the Equality Commission for Northern Ireland, which I understand has an excellent record for its work. Our Equality and Human Rights Commission is just getting off the ground, so to take the opportunity for a briefing from the Northern Irish commission would be worth our while.

I am in members' hands. Do we want to meet our counterparts in Northern Ireland? The visit would probably take place in June.

Members indicated agreement.

Would members like to discuss any specific matters with the other committees? If they do not have a list just now and need more time to think about it, they can pass issues to the clerks by e-mail.

The main issue that resonates with me is how sectarianism is being addressed in Northern Ireland. It was particularly interesting to meet the Northern Irish committee members and to observe how, for instance, the Sinn Féin and DUP members work closely on the committee's approach to matters. I would like to find out more about how they tackle, and have tackled, sectarianism. The resonance between Northern Ireland and Scotland is strong, so we should be able to learn from their work.

I ask members to let the clerks know about any other items that they would like to put on the agenda for discussion.

Do members also agree to visit Hydebank Wood prison? The governor has indicated that he would be delighted to spend time with the committee. It would be a morning visit.

Members indicated agreement.

Do we agree to receive a briefing from the Equality Commission for Northern Ireland?

Members indicated agreement.

As agreed at the start of our meeting, we move into private session to consider a paper on commissioning research on sexual imagery in goods aimed at children.

Meeting continued in private until 12:38.