Justice 2 Committee, 15 Jun 2004

Meeting date: Tuesday, June 15, 2004

Official Report 261KB pdf

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Prisoner Escort and Court Custody Services Contract

Item 2 on the agenda concerns prisoner escort and court custody services and in particular the contract. We considered the matter at our previous meeting, when we took evidence from Reliance and the Scottish Prison Service. The committee requires to consider what further action to take, if any.

I inform members that, following our previous meeting, we have received an undertaking from the chief executive of the SPS to forward to us details of who served on what was called the project management group. The clerks inform me that we are still awaiting that information.

I am also aware that the Minister for Justice has asked the Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland to supply a report on how the contract services are operating. I understand that that report should be available in mid-July. I provide that information as background to the committee before it considers the matter further. I invite comment from members.

Last week's evidence-taking session on Reliance and court custody services threw up more questions than it answered, especially about the operation of the SPS. I would be reluctant for the committee to decide to take no further action on the matter. I would like it to remain on our agenda, so that we can reflect on it further and take further evidence, if necessary. Before we take any final decisions, I would like us to consider the response of ACPOS to the Scottish Executive and to reflect on the Auditor General for Scotland's report on the Reliance contract. Although at present we may not want to invite the SPS to give further evidence, once we have re-examined the evidence that it gave last week, along with the findings of ACPOS and the Auditor General, we may want to consider doing so.

The SPS agreed to respond to us on a couple of issues and we must wait for that response. We must also consider the reports of ACPOS and the Auditor General. I would be happy to keep the issue in abeyance and to return to it when that information appears. Eventually, we will want to publish a report, but it would be premature for us to do so now.

The SPS agreed to provide what appeared on the surface to be simple information, so I am somewhat disappointed that we have not received a response from it within a week. If we have not received one by next Tuesday, I will be even more disappointed. The service was required merely to provide some names, which is a fairly simple thing to do.

Last week, we had the sense that there is more to come on the issue. Our inquiries to the minister have been vindicated by the two cases that have come to light, which were perhaps inevitable. My feeling about the way in which Reliance was running the contract was that there was reluctance to make a further mistake by releasing prisoners erroneously. There are now two cases of prisoners having been held erroneously. The public demand that the committee should continue to monitor the issue. I look forward to receiving the reply from ACPOS in July. We should keep a watching brief on the matter.

I agree absolutely that we should continue to monitor the matter, as I think that there is substantive information to come. I do not want to lose sight of the fact that two separate strands are emerging. The first relates to the Reliance contract and everything that surrounded that. The second, which requires a little more consideration, is the question of governance, relationships between the SPS and the minister and the role of the SPS board. After all, devolution was supposed to make governance more transparent, not less so. It would be useful for us to return to that issue and I am sure that we will do so.

When we discussed our forward work plan, I said that I would like us to hold an inquiry into the SPS. That is a big task and we may need to consider it as one for next year.

Those comments are helpful. I want the committee to be clear about the specific action that it resolves to take in relation to the matter before us—the prisoner escort and court custody services contract. From what members are saying, I detect that it would be premature for us to conclude our consideration of the matter at the moment. Members want to hear further from the SPS and to have the benefit of what ACPOS has to say in July. On that basis, we should place the matter on the agenda for our first meeting after the summer recess. I hope that by then the information that we are awaiting will be available and that we will be able to circulate it to members. Members may want to make further decisions about where we go from there.

Members indicated agreement.

I thank members for their attendance at this afternoon's meeting. It has been a long, hot afternoon, but we have done a great deal of work. I am grateful to members for their forbearance.

Meeting closed at 16:40.