Official Report 468KB pdf
11:12
Agenda item 5 is consideration of our work programme. I ask members for some initial reflections and, again, I will go round the table. Please give a little introduction to yourselves and some of the areas that interest you. As we have said, we will have a more detailed chat afterwards.
I will give a quick introduction to myself and some of my interests. My background is in oil and gas. I started life as an engineer before moving into finance, becoming a chartered accountant and, latterly, working as an economist and analysing projects. That gives me a lot of interest in energy and the wider economy.
On the scope that I would like to see in our work programme, I think we have a great opportunity initially to review the current state of the economy, the tourism industry and the energy industry. I would like to see a lot of evidence from our colleagues in the Scottish Parliament information centre, but also from external experts, where we can, so that we can get a clear understanding of where we are right now. I think that we have opportunities to do deep dives into all the various industries that are prominent in Scotland, and also opportunities to look at some of the regional economies.
In the report by the session 6 committee, two areas really caught my attention and interest me: the future of Grangemouth and how we consider artificial intelligence in terms of growth. There are also areas such as skills development and lots of other areas where policies may have a strategic impact on the economy. Areas such as tax, planning and transport may or may not be covered by other committees, but they obviously have an impact on the economy.
That is my broad thinking at the moment. I am happy to go round the table and hear from everyone else, starting with Daniel Johnson.
11:15
In terms of my background, there were two components to my career prior to entering the Parliament. I started my career working as a management consultant, primarily focusing on the financial services sector, which gave me an insight into that. For the eight years prior to entering the Parliament, I ran my family’s retail business. That background gave me two distinct and quite interesting alternative views of the economy; both elements had a strong private sector focus.
Regarding the committee’s focus, I think that the overarching view of committee members at the end of the previous session was that there had maybe been some missed opportunities and that there was an opportunity for the committee to look at more structural issues in the economy.
The technology point has already been raised. There was a frustration that, given the importance of artificial intelligence and other technologies and the changes that they bring, there had been insufficient focus on those areas by the committee.
There were some broad labour points—not just about skills but, given the ageing population, about thinking about the nature of the workforce and types of work.
There are some broad infrastructure points. I do not think that the Parliament necessarily focuses in the right ways on infrastructure, which is absolutely the connective tissue of the economy.
Likewise, we need to look at really important and stark points around security and resilience, particularly when we consider the economy. An overarching point is about how we are getting investment into the economy.
Finally, the big piece is energy in the round. The energy transition is upon us, and the world is changing how it supplies and generates energy. Scotland is absolutely at the fulcrum of that change with its heritage and strength in the oil and gas sector and its transition to renewables. The committee should think about how we interact with and discuss that issue, and we must ensure that we are led by the evidence.
I, too, welcome you as the deputy convener, Daniel. The experience that you bring from the previous committee will be invaluable, although we will be looking at slightly different subjects. I am sure that you will be able to share with us how the devolved nature of the economy relates to our responsibilities in Scotland.
I have had the privilege of sitting on quite a number of committees, including the Culture, Tourism, Europe and External Affairs Committee; the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee; the Public Petitions Committee; the Rural Economy and Connectivity Committee; the Social Justice and Social Security Committee; the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee; the Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee; and the Rural Affairs and Islands Committee.
I have experience of running a hospitality business, which I helped my husband with, although it was a long time ago now. It was a very valuable part of my life and my learning experience. There is nothing more important than knowing how to run a business, look after people in the business and invest in skills. I know that the previous committee did a lot of work in that area.
Before that, I was an agronomist, which is a crop specialist. I worked in the field of agricultural science, having graduated from an agricultural university. The rural economy is very close to my heart. Obviously, I represent a constituency that is distinctly rural.
From being at the Royal Highland Show on Friday, I know that Scottish Land & Estates and NFU Scotland are emphasising the importance of the spend in the rural economy—for every £1 that is spent, you get £1.51 back. I hope that the committee will look at the rural economy. [Interruption.] I see that Kristopher Leask has joined us. Is that Kristopher?
Yes.
Hello, Kristopher.
I agree with the convener that we should be looking at the future of Grangemouth, as well as artificial intelligence. Data centres have the potential to be massive economic drivers, so they are a huge opportunity, but they carry risks as well. Scotland has the conditions to attract data centres, which would give the UK resilience, as we would not have to import our iCloud space. They can deliver benefits for communities, and the committee has the opportunity to look at how they are brought into being. At the moment, they are quite controversial.
I noted with interest that the previous committee thought that the current format of the business in Parliament conference is past its sell-by date and does not represent good value for money. We should include that in our work programme in the summer, because any changes that we recommend making will involve a lot of organising.
Good morning, Kristopher. Thank you for making it to the meeting. I will bring you in at the end.
I, too, welcome Daniel Johnson to his role as deputy convener.
How does my background assist the work of the committee? For the past 16 years, I have been a commercial manager of a Scottish business that has a turnover of about £5 million, with 10 surveyors and a number of technicians working on the front line. It is a reasonably profitable company—it is always nice to have one of them.
I have always believed in getting things done. I appreciate that we are here to scrutinise and debate, but if we do not come to conclusions, that scrutiny and debate does not help us. Therefore, I will always be driving for us to get to an outcome, to make sure that we are doing something positive.
I agree that AI data centres are probably one of the first things that we should look at, because there are two sides to them: there is the potential for benefits and investment that could come with them, but there is also the impact that they could have on communities. We have to look at both aspects, because you cannot have one without the other.
I was a councillor for nine years, and I was the resources portfolio holder. That is a thing that you never tell anybody—especially coming up to an election, you never say that you do the budget—and it was not a big vote winner, but it was a very important role. When I started in that position, Falkirk Council’s revenue budget was about £360 million, and it was not a bad business to be looking after over that period.
During the past four years, I have also been housing convener. One of the first things that I was asked in that role was, what is the most important thing that we can do? I said that the most important thing is to spend the capital money on building houses, upgrading houses and making houses warmer, which, hopefully, helps to deal with homelessness. The council officers thought that that was an interesting position, and that might give you an idea of my approach. If we can look at doing things, we should look to make things better.
I have had 25 years of elected experience in different places—16 on a council and nine at Westminster. Before that, I was in banking, so I have quite literally worked in the two most despised professions in the world. I think that the experience and knowledge that I gained in those roles will be useful here.
I am delighted with what I have heard from the previous speakers. It will not come as a surprise to members that I think that Grangemouth needs to be a big focus for our committee. I also agree that we need to consider AI data centres and energy, so I think that we are all pretty much on the same page.
When I looked through some of the legacy reports, I noticed that there were references to the need for greater joined-up working across committees, and that approach will be critically important to the AI data centre issue, because I think that three committees have a strong interest in it. Although that is beneficial, we do not want to all come to different conclusions. We need to get a broad consensus on the issue in Parliament.
I have been a councillor in Edinburgh for the past nine years, although I resigned a couple of weeks ago. Many of my interests stem from when I was the housing and economy convener. I am interested in how we can grow the economy so that it works for our society. I am also interested in fair work and in how we ensure that the Government’s support for industry, sectors and businesses goes to the businesses that are giving back the most to society through well-paid jobs, good career progression and providing opportunities for people. We have to look at the benefits that our economy gives to society.
I would be very interested in the committee looking at the gig economy, which I did at the City of Edinburgh Council. With the Workers Observatory, we looked at working conditions for people in the gig economy and the challenges that they face, including those around safety.
Like others, I think that AI is huge and there are massive opportunities for us, but there are big questions about energy. I am also concerned about youth employment. A couple of months ago, I was on “Question Time”. A young woman in the audience became very annoyed when politicians were talking about young people needing skills. She said that young people do not need skills—they have skills, but they need jobs. Many highly skilled young people who are coming out of university are not able to get jobs, so we need to look at how we match young people to the work and ensure that there are jobs for them.
I am concerned that AI is taking space from young people when they first leave university. A lot of work that people would normally do as their first or graduate job is being done by AI. We need to work out how we bridge the gap and ensure that we are not losing lots of jobs for young people.
Tourism is important for employment, but there are big challenges. For example, in Edinburgh, we can look at the loss of housing and how tourism has fed into the pressure on housing. The issue is how we get the balance right with the businesses and sectors that are creating jobs so that they do not extract too much from other sections of our society.
There are three parts to energy. There is the jobs aspect, which is really important; there is the cost, not just for homes but for businesses—it is one of the biggest challenges for businesses at the moment; and there is a climate aspect. The committee will have to have an interesting discussion about that. I am glad to hear terms such as “evidence led”. I want to ensure that we understand the reality of the situation and that we look at it as honestly as we can. The just transition and how we create jobs in renewables will be a huge focus for the committee.
Kristopher, thanks very much for making it to the meeting. I explained your planes, trains and automobiles journey this morning. To start, you will have to declare any interests from your entry in the register of members’ interests.
My apologies to the convener and committee members for the disruption. In future, if there is disruption—I am afraid that it will be a case of when and not if—I will join the meeting online, so that I do not interrupt the committee’s work and so that I can be present for the full meeting. As this is our first meeting, and particularly given the agenda, I felt that it was important to be here in person to see you all.
I will begin by declaring my interests. I am a member of Orkney Islands Council and have been for the past four years. For the past two years, I have been chair of our enterprise and infrastructure committee. My position ceased a month ago. That is the end of my registered interests, but it segues nicely into my background.
I was responsible for the council’s work on local economic development and city region growth deals. Alongside the council leader, I sat on the Highlands and Islands regional economic partnership and had oversight of our work on energy, tourism and harbours. That gives you a flavour of my experience.
I have a background in community energy and some background in marine energy, both of which are areas that I want the committee to look into.
11:30
There are a few important areas that the committee needs to grapple with over the next five years. I agree with many points that members have made—on the rural economy, for example. In particular, delivering capital is becoming increasingly challenging in rural and island contexts. The committee could do a good piece of work on understanding the growing inequity in local economic development in our island and rural communities versus, perhaps, our more urban or exurban communities.
On the energy front, the committee has a substantive piece of work to do on the repowering of onshore wind. We are coming into the next generation of that; the first generation of mass onshore wind is going to be repowered. There are challenges and opportunities in that, and that is a particularly meaty issue for the committee to look into.
More broadly, I am interested in the expansion of community energy, as well as marine energy and our wave and tidal sectors. Heat networks and the return of the heat in buildings bill will be an inevitable focus of the committee’s work, which is welcome.
On the tourism side, I have experience and a great interest in regenerative tourism and how we can ensure that our tourism sector supports wider community infrastructure and wellbeing by interacting well with communities rather than being an extractive force in their lives. VisitScotland’s local versus national focus and the work that it is doing, working alongside communities, will be a substantive piece of inquiry work for the committee.
It might also be worth reflecting on the context in which I come to the committee, because I come from a council in Orkney where I am the only party-political councillor—it is me and 20 independents—so, to be frank, for me, the novelty of this place is almost the party-political groups. Chairing the council’s development and infrastructure committee over the past two years has involved working, on an issue-by-issue basis, with members with very differing viewpoints and a range of views. I look forward to continuing in that collaborative spirit. My background means that I am well equipped to do that and to work together with folks and with you, convener.
Thank you, members. That was an excellent range of opinions and backgrounds, which will help the committee as we grapple with the issues in our remit.
As previously agreed, we will now move into private session to discuss matters in more detail. That was an excellent opening discussion.
11:32
Meeting continued in private until 12:06.