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Chamber and committees

Plenary, 26 Mar 2009

Meeting date: Thursday, March 26, 2009


Contents


First Minister's Question Time


Engagements

To ask the First Minister what engagements he has planned for the rest of the day. (S3F-1574)

The First Minister (Alex Salmond):

Later today, I will have meetings to take forward the Government's programme. Earlier this morning, I wrote to Mr Gray following my commitment to look into the case that he raised during First Minister's question time last week. Given the clear interest of the Parliament in the matter, I will place a copy of that letter in the Scottish Parliament information centre.

Shortly after question time, I will travel to Kintyre to announce the latest investment in renewables in Scotland—a truly transformational announcement for the Mull of Kintyre. It is hugely significant for Scotland, and the Parliament will no doubt hear more about it during the economy debate this afternoon.

Iain Gray:

I got a letter from the First Minister a few minutes ago, and I am happy to have a look at it, but I make no apology for standing up for a young apprentice last week. I am delighted that, on Friday, he heard that he would be able to complete his apprenticeship. So is his dad—he thanked me at the weekend. There are dozens of people in the position that Lewis Doig was in last week, with an uncertain future, and we need the apprenticeship guarantee to be made good for them all.

Today, I want to ask about another of the First Minister's promises. The SNP manifesto said:

"We will maintain teacher numbers in the face of falling school rolls to cut class sizes".

Why has the First Minister not done that?

The First Minister:

It is not a question of whether members are able to stand up for their constituents—I am sure that every member of the Scottish Parliament tries to do that. It is simply a question of getting the facts right, as the correspondence will indicate that Iain Gray so palpably failed to do.

The Scottish Government has delivered the best pupil teacher ratio in history, for not just this year but the second successive year. That is important in itself but, at 13.1:1, the pupil teacher ratio in Scotland is significantly better than the ratio in England where it is 17:1, than the ratio in Wales where it is 18:1, and than the ratio in Northern Ireland where it is 17:1. Perhaps Iain Gray should have a word with his colleagues south of the border and try to get them to emulate the Scottish experience on pupil teacher ratios.

Iain Gray:

This is not a question about England, Wales or Northern Ireland; it is a question about a promise that was made in Scotland to the parents and pupils of Scotland. The man who promised to maintain teacher numbers is right here in the chamber, and he is the one who is breaking that promise. Will he tell us what he is going to do to put that right?

The First Minister:

It is interesting to note from the statistics that many councils in Scotland have managed to maintain teacher numbers; indeed, some have managed to increase them. I welcome that, as I think that the concordat has enthusiastic support across local government in Scotland.

Oh no.

The First Minister:

I know that Andy Kerr did his best to destroy the concordat at the outset and that he has tried to instigate problems for it, but the concordat has delivered for the people of Scotland across a range of issues.

The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning will pursue with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities—at its invitation—and with individual councils the question why not every council in Scotland has managed to achieve the teacher numbers that we would all wish. On that basis, and given Rhona Brankin's remarks of just a few minutes ago, we might wish to reflect on the fact that 20 per cent—one fifth—of the fall in teacher numbers in Scotland seemed to come from the city of Glasgow.

Iain Gray:

If the First Minister is not blaming Westminster, he is blaming councils. However, this is not about a promise made by council leaders in Glasgow, Aberdeen, Renfrewshire or anywhere else; the man who promised to maintain teacher numbers is Alex Salmond, and Alex Salmond is breaking that promise. When will he put it right?

The First Minister:

As Iain Gray will remember, in the concordat the idea was to make year-on-year progress towards lower class sizes in Scotland—and, of course, we now have the best class sizes in Scotland that have ever been recorded.

If Iain Gray wants to argue that I would wish that some councils in Scotland made faster progress towards that commitment, then the answer is yes. I would like to hear an explanation of why, when the education convener of Glasgow City Council says that there is record education spending in the city, the spending does not translate into maintaining the number of teachers in the great city of Glasgow.

Iain Gray:

We are not making progress on the promise. In four years, Labour increased teacher numbers by 2,000; in half that time, the SNP has wiped out half of that progress. We are going backwards.

I do not know about the concordat, but the First Minister's school report is certainly a disaster. Teacher numbers: failed. Class sizes: failed. School building programme: failed. Physical education in schools: failed. Free school meals: failed. Nursery school teachers: failed. The buck stops on the SNP front bench. Who will take the blame—the First Minister Alex Salmond or his hapless cabinet secretary Fiona Hyslop?

The First Minister:

I would not get on to the school building programme if I was Iain Gray; that was his mistake two weeks ago, before his mistake about his constituency case last week.

Within the past few days, we have heard about the full extent of local government finance that the concordat makes possible. We have also heard the comparison, which Iain Gray does not want to make, with England and Wales. This coming year, local government finance in Scotland is increasing by 5.5 per cent.

Standstill.

In England, the figure is 4.2 per cent.

Order, Mr Kerr.

The First Minister:

Andy Kerr says, "Standstill." If 5.5 per cent is a standstill in Scotland, what is 4.2 per cent in England? And the figure is Wales is 3 per cent.

One of the great things about the concordat is that, because we work in agreement, it has allowed record council funding in Scotland, it has delivered a freeze in council tax, and it has delivered the small business bonus. Those things are important to people in Scotland. The biggest threat to local government finance, and to every other public service in Scotland, is the £500 million of cuts that are coming down the tunnel from the Labour Government in London.


Prime Minister (Meetings)

To ask the First Minister when he will next meet the Prime Minister. (S3F-1575)

I have no plans to meet the Prime Minister in the near future.

Annabel Goldie:

Last year, as one of the conditions for supporting the Scottish Government budget, the Scottish Conservatives called for a national audit report on drug abuse. The report published today is chilling. Five people die every day in Scotland from drink and drug abuse, and the abuse has a wider impact, costing Scotland an estimated £5 billion a year. That is a horrific verdict on eight wasted years under the previous Executive.

Alarmingly, the £5 billion figure is only a guesstimate. The audit report makes clear that actual Scottish figures for drug abuse were expected last May, and the Auditor General for Scotland's office confirmed to my office this morning that the Scottish Government commissioned that information. Nearly a year later, why has the First Minister not published the figures? What is being kept hidden?

The First Minister:

I will investigate the matter and get the figures that Annabel Goldie wants as soon as possible—just as we, for the first time, have investigated the scale of the alcohol abuse problem in Scotland and have published the figures.

On the burden of Annabel Goldie's question, I agree whole-heartedly. We were delighted to commission the Audit Scotland report, which has identified many of the issues that she and I and others in the Parliament felt were wrong about the direction of drugs policy.

There are three issues at stake. One is to get the strategy right, and we have made a substantial step forward on drugs in moving towards the road to recovery and putting the emphasis on recovery—that also applies to alcohol abuse.

The second issue is to get the balance right and to understand, as the Auditor General's report indicates, that the alcohol problem in Scotland is even greater than our huge drug problem. Those problems together cost £5 billion in financial terms, but in terms of human misery they cost a great deal more. It is about getting the balance of funding right, and I am sure that Annabel Goldie will acknowledge that that is exactly what we have done, with a 230 per cent increase in alcohol funding and a 14 per cent increase in drug abuse funding during the comprehensive spending review period.

The third issue, which is of huge significance and which the Auditor General's report identifies as a factor that is perhaps greater than any other, is that the delivery of and the mechanisms to deliver the policies that we all want in Scotland must be correct, must be audited and must translate into helping real people in real families.

Annabel Goldie:

I hope that the missing report will be published, as that information is urgently needed.

Prevention should be at the heart of any strategy, but the report states that only 6 per cent of spending goes into that area. Will the First Minister commit to increasing that? Will he commit to simplifying the dog's breakfast of funding and treatment structures? Finally, with two thirds of prisoners testing positive for drugs on admission to jail, will the First Minister commit to drugs-free prisons? [Interruption.]

The First Minister:

I heard "no more money" in a sedentary intervention. In fact, Mr Rumbles—and as Ms Goldie well knows—the drugs budget is increasing by 14 per cent during the CSR period, and the alcohol budget for preventing and addressing abuse is increasing by 236 per cent. Substantial resources are going in.

The point on which I agree with Annabel Goldie—and on which the Auditor General's report greatly reinforces concerns—regards delivery and the impact of the investment that is being made. Annabel Goldie has written to me to suggest a number of things with which I am happy to agree. That includes her idea of a summit, albeit with one proviso: the summit should not be another discussion about the concepts because we have moved beyond that stage. We have a new direction for drugs policy, and the alcohol and drug abuse budget has been rebalanced. The summit must focus on delivery and the auditing of delivery, and it should ensure that the good intentions and the huge budget that go into those areas are matched by real help on the ground to real families and people.


Cabinet (Meetings)

To ask the First Minister what issues will be discussed at the next meeting of the Cabinet. (S3F-1576)

The next meeting of the Cabinet will discuss issues of importance to the people of Scotland.

Tavish Scott:

Following the December fisheries council, the Scottish National Party fisheries minister said that it was a "huge relief"; it was "blazing a trail"; there had been "breakthroughs"; he was "delighted" by it; and fishermen "would sleep easier".

I spoke this morning to skipper Michael Henderson who was sailing back to Peterhead. He says that the fishermen get "no sleep" in the storms because there is nowhere for them to shelter—he has been forced by the Government's regulations to fish 240 miles beyond Rockall, out in the Atlantic. Men will lose their lives if that goes on, skipper Henderson told me this morning. Scottish fishermen face "bankruptcy" because of the deal that the Government signed in December.

Those are not my words but those of Scottish fishing leaders. When will the First Minister act to change the fishing regulations that his Government is imposing on the industry?

The First Minister:

Tavish Scott is wrong in his analysis of the situation. The deal that was signed in December introduced flexibility into the common fisheries policy, and its application will stand the fishing industry in good stead—that point is agreed across the industry's representative organisations. As Tavish Scott should know and as any fishing MP is well aware, the biggest pressure on the fleet at present is the substantial decline in langoustine prices. That is not to do with what is happening in the home market but with what is happening in markets elsewhere. It is putting substantial financial pressure on the industry, as I am—and every fishing MP is—acutely aware.

Tavish Scott:

It is interesting to hear that the First Minister is an MP now: that will be news to people in Banff and Buchan and in the House of Commons, given that he missed the fisheries debate there last December.

The First Minister's answer was utterly in denial of what is happening in the fishing industry in Scotland today. To ignore the fact that men are being injured on boats while fishing in the Atlantic around Rockall shows that he is in denial about this very serious issue for the industry. Those men are fishing out there not from a desire to fish those dangerous waters in winter but because of the implementation of the European deal by the SNP Government.

The fisheries minister is being told today that scores of fishermen could be out of a job. The industry is saying that this is the deepest economic crisis for 15 years, and half the Shetland fishing fleet—including new boats—face a 20 per cent cut in fishing days. There is complete chaos over the nets to be used. A skipper from Macduff said last night—[Interruption.] This is a serious issue, despite the groans about it from the SNP members.

A skipper from Macduff said last night that the Scottish Government's fishing regulations mean that he must tie up his boat for five weeks then fish for three. Fishermen are angry—how can they make a living out of that? Ministers can give the fishing industry no answers other than platitudes and rhetoric. They give no detail where detail is needed. Will the First Minister tell his Government to sort out this mess and to work out the details? The fishing regulations that are crippling boats can change from the end of April—

Come to a conclusion, please.

Will the First Minister make that change happen to help the fishing industry in Scotland?

The First Minister:

This Government has always stood up for, and always will stand up for, the fishing industry of Scotland. At the previous two fisheries councils, faced with extraordinary difficulties, by general acknowledgement we have managed to gain valuable flexibility in allowing fishing effort to be placed in Scotland.

Let me say to Tavish Scott that, unlike him, I would never be in a Government from which I had to resign because it would not represent the fishing industry of Scotland.

I will take a constituency question from Angela Constance.

Angela Constance (Livingston) (SNP):

The last remaining branch of Lord Roberts Workshops, which is in my constituency, faces closure this June. The workshop provides sheltered employment for disabled ex-servicemen and women, many of whom suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder. Given the First Minister's stated support for veterans and ex-servicemen and women, will he ensure that the Scottish Government actively explores all the options to save that service? Will he consider accepting an invitation to visit the workshop in Livingston?

The First Minister:

Extensive dialogue between the management of Lord Roberts Workshops and Scottish Government officials has culminated in an offer of a £10,000 Scottish Government grant to meet the cost of a comprehensive business review and evaluation of the workshop. That offer was accepted only today. In addition, the Scottish Government has pointed Lord Roberts Workshops to the assistance that is available from the enterprise fund, and we understand that the organisation is exploring that option. Furthermore, we have recommended that contact is made with the local authority and the local enterprise company, and we hope that Lord Roberts Workshops will pursue that proposal. By all means, if a ministerial visit would help the matter, I will make that arrangement.

I will take a further question from Jamie McGrigor.

Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con):

In the light of last Saturday's dreadful tragedy on Loch Awe, where two men from Glasgow lost their lives and two more are sadly still missing, and considering the high number of deaths by drowning in Loch Awe in recent years, will the First Minister or his relevant representatives respond to the wishes of local people by meeting me and other politicians, local Royal National Lifeboat Institution representatives, community councillors and members of other relevant bodies around Loch Awe to create a framework to improve safety and aid rescue operations on Scotland's longest freshwater loch?

The First Minister:

I thank Jamie McGrigor for giving notice of his question.

On behalf of the whole Parliament, I express my deepest condolences to the families of the four victims William Carty, Craig Currie, Steven Carty and Thomas Douglas. As the constituency member knows, the incident is now part of an on-going police investigation and potentially other investigations. Therefore, it would be inappropriate to comment in detail or to draw conclusions from the information that is available, but I would be happy to arrange for the Minister for Community Safety, Fergus Ewing, to meet Mr McGrigor and the organisations that he identified.


Mental Health (Children and Young People)

To ask the First Minister what steps the Scottish Government is taking to support children and young people who may feel depressed or suicidal. (S3F-1586)

The First Minister (Alex Salmond):

The Scottish Government is committed to supporting children and young people who have mental health problems or are suicidal, and we will continue to build on the excellent work that has been undertaken to date in Scotland.

We are currently working with national health service boards and other partners to deliver the specific objectives set for children and young people's mental health. That includes continuing investment in programmes to reduce stigma, to improve the capacity and capability of services to respond to those in distress, and to achieve faster access to those vital services.

Aileen Campbell:

The First Minister will be aware of the recent report from ChildLine Scotland that indicates that Scotland has had a sevenfold increase, in five years, of calls from children who are reporting suicidal feelings. Indeed, the Scottish rise is steeper than that of the United Kingdom.

Does the First Minister share my shock and concern about those disturbing and upsetting figures and my concern that, while those who call ChildLine receive expert help and advice, there may be many more distressed children and young people who do not make the call and cannot be reached? Will the First Minister confirm that the Government will consider how best it can make information available to young people, parents and, particularly, carers, on spotting the signs of depression and potential suicide, which is one of ChildLine's key recommendations?

The First Minister:

I certainly agree that we must work together to promote the wellbeing of children and young people and to address their needs as early as possible. We must build on their strengths and promote resilience using existing networks and support whenever possible. When necessary, we must provide additional help, as identified by the member, that is appropriate, proportionate and timely, whether that is through schools or the health service, through supporting parents or, indeed, through expert services such as ChildLine.

Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab):

I very much welcome the commitment on the part of the First Minister and his Government to tackling the issue. Access to specialist psychological services is vital for those children. Is the First Minister aware that the child and adolescent mental health service in Lanarkshire believes that it requires £1.8 million to improve staffing levels to a level comparable with other CAMH services in Scotland? Will the First Minister agree to meet me to discuss how, together, we can lift that much-needed service from the bottom of the table in the Scottish Government's recently commissioned survey by ISD Scotland?

I hear what the constituency member says. I would be delighted to arrange a meeting with the Deputy First Minister to pursue the points that she has identified.

Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):

I advise the First Minister that the Health and Sport Committee this week launched an inquiry into mental health services for children and adolescents. In our evidence, we found that 33,000 children had contacted ChildLine this year. I ask that his Government gives weighty consideration to our report when it is finally published, as I think that it is the first such inquiry on the subject by any committee during the lifetime of the Scottish Parliament.

I agree with the convener of the Health and Sport Committee. The mental health of our children and young people is a key priority, and we will certainly listen carefully to what the committee has to say.

Hugh O'Donnell (Central Scotland) (LD):

In the light of the First Minister's comments, will he explain how blocking amendments to the Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Bill and reducing the availability of training opportunities through the getting ready for work scheme for some of the most vulnerable young people in Scotland will contribute positively to the outcomes that he seems to support?

The First Minister:

As has generally been agreed, the bill is designed to correct the deficiencies in the previous legislation. As the member well knows, if financial provisions or provisions that have financial implications are introduced into bills, they have to be considered differently. A bill that is identified to correct previous deficiencies should not in itself have financial implications.


Gang-related Violence

To ask the First Minister what steps the Scottish Government is taking to tackle gang-related violence. (S3F-1578)

The First Minister (Alex Salmond):

Last December, we announced a £1.6 million package to support the community initiative to reduce violence. As the member knows, it is a project that is being delivered in the east end of Glasgow. The groundbreaking project is delivering a mix of tough enforcement and intensive services to turn around 700 young lives and make those communities safer. We are also supporting a Scotland-wide initiative that is delivering a range of programmes to more than 500 young men, in an attempt to challenge their negative attitudes and change their behaviour.

All of that work is being supported by visible and sustained police enforcement, which is being co-ordinated by the national violence reduction unit through its anti-violence campaign, the current phase of which is targeting gang violence. That is aided by the 441 extra police officers that have been delivered throughout Scotland by this Government since May 2007—record police numbers, which enable the police to help in initiatives to reduce violence.

Paul Martin:

The First Minister will agree that gang-related violence is unacceptable and blights far too many communities throughout Scotland. I seek assurances from him that, in tackling such unacceptable behaviour, the Government will stop making excuses for the tiny minority of people who commit antisocial behaviour and start to represent the majority of decent men, women and children in our communities by ensuring that it delivers the legal measures in the Antisocial Behaviour etc (Scotland) Act 2004, which was introduced by the previous Executive. Will the Scottish Government enforce those measures properly instead of diluting them, as is set out in "Promoting Positive Outcomes: Working Together to Prevent Antisocial Behaviour in Scotland"?

The First Minister:

I am sure that Paul Martin welcomes the initiatives that I have outlined. The Government never makes excuses for those who perpetrate violence. That is why there are record numbers of police officers in Scotland and why it seems that, over this term, we will exceed the target of 1,000 more police officers on the streets of Scotland than we would have had if the Labour Party had stayed in government.

Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD):

The First Minister rightly touched on the projects in the east end of Glasgow, not least operation reclaim, which operates in Petershill. That project uses football as an incentive and a motivator to break down gang divisions and to foster positive attitudes. Has he seen the figures that suggest that there has been a 35 per cent cut in crime in the surrounding area as a consequence of such initiatives? I acknowledge the investment that has already been made, but is it a model that the Government will support and replicate more widely, both in Glasgow and throughout Scotland?

The First Minister:

Yes, I agree with Robert Brown. He is entirely correct that the initial figures show a dramatic result from the investment that is being made in those initiatives. In my first answer to Paul Martin, I mentioned the Scotland-wide initiative that is targeting 500 young men in an attempt to challenge negative attitudes and behaviour. However, we do not claim that gang violence is specific to Glasgow and Strathclyde; it is a problem in many parts of Scotland. The success of the initiatives that have been taken suggests that they should be applied on an all-Scotland basis.


Junior Doctors (Working Hours)

To ask the First Minister what forecast the Scottish Government has made of how many junior doctors will be working more than 48 hours per week from August 2009. (S3F-1594)

The First Minister (Alex Salmond):

On the basis of the figures that have been supplied by national health service boards, around 57 per cent of junior doctors are already working an average of 48 hours or less a week. That is up from the figure of 51 per cent that was recorded six months ago. We expect that, as NHS boards continue their efforts to comply with the working time regulations, the figure will continue to rise and will approach full compliance by 1 August. In order to get a more accurate projection of the number of junior doctors who may still be working more than 48 hours a week by August, the Scottish Government is issuing guidance to all NHS boards to require them to provide details of current and projected compliance levels.

As Ross Finnie knows, overall compliance with the working time regulations is a reserved matter, but the Scottish Government is doing what it can to help individual NHS boards to achieve compliance by their junior doctors by disseminating information on good practice, issuing guidance, holding seminars and providing practical advice including advice on the redesigning of junior doctor rotas.

Ross Finnie:

The First Minister and his Cabinet colleagues are always swift to take the credit for health boards' meeting waiting time targets, so I am sure that he would not want to duck any responsibility in relation to the working time directive. He tells us that he hopes that the target of full compliance will be met by August but, in replies that were given to me by the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing on 9 March, she not only confirmed the figure of 50 per cent to which the First Minister has referred but talked about the fact that almost 100 per cent of junior doctors are meeting the new deal target of 56 hours a week. On that basis, there is a shortfall of 16,000 hours in meeting the working time directive, which equates to 330 junior doctors working 48 hours a week. Where will the First Minister find those 330 junior doctors by August?

The First Minister:

The figures are moving in the right direction all the time. The latest figure is 57 per cent, not the 51 per cent of six months ago. What the United Kingdom Government does or does not do in these matters is of some importance, not least because it has just announced its intention to apply to the European Commission for a derogation from the working time directive.

The figures in Scotland are moving substantially in the right direction, and I would have expected Ross Finnie to find it in his heart to welcome that progress as well as, rightly, focusing attention on what remains to be done.

Meeting suspended until 14:15.

On resuming—