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Chamber and committees

Meeting of the Parliament

Meeting date: Thursday, April 24, 2014


Contents


First Minister’s Question Time


Engagements



1. To ask the First Minister what engagements he has planned for the rest of the day. (S4F-02036)

I have engagements to take forward the Government’s programme for Scotland.

Does the First Minister still have full confidence in his Cabinet Secretary for Justice?

Yes.

Johann Lamont

There you go. No surprise there.

I welcomed the Government’s interest in corroboration because, like many others in this chamber, I have genuine concerns about whether corroboration achieves justice for every victim, particularly women. However, it has become clear, through the passage of the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill, that the process has been flawed and that serious reservations have not been addressed. I believe, therefore, that the cabinet secretary has taken the right decision in delaying the plans. I also thought that that was the right decision six weeks ago, when my colleague Graeme Pearson, formerly one of Scotland’s most senior police officers, suggested that course of action.

I remind the First Minister of Kenny MacAskill’s considered response to that suggestion six weeks ago. He said:

“We know that Labour members take their cue from Cameron and Osborne.”

He continued:

“Labour has sold its soul and is in danger of selling out the victims of crime.”—[Official Report, 27 February 2014; c 28373 and 28376.]

Does the First Minister agree with his cabinet secretary that previous moves to delay the legislation were part of a Tory-led conspiracy, or was it just the right thing to do?

The First Minister

It is certainly true that it was very difficult to reconcile Labour’s manifesto commitment to look at the matter of corroboration with the position that the Labour Party adopted with regard to the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill. Removing the general law and practice of corroboration from Scotland will, we believe, secure access to justice for hundreds of people who are otherwise denied it by the present situation, in which cases cannot be brought to trial because they do not have the standard of corroboration that is unique within the Scottish criminal justice system.

That is why the moves that Kenny MacAskill made, and this Government proposed, to look again at the general law of corroboration, to remove it and to put in its place proposals on the standard of evidence as opposed to the quantity of evidence, have been widely welcomed by the organisations that care most about the people who suffer most from the situation—Rape Crisis Scotland and Victim Support Scotland.

As I understand it, this week the three Opposition parties asked at the Parliamentary Bureau whether we could look again at delaying the legislation until after Lord Bonomy’s review group reported. The justice secretary acceded to that request. Given that, would it not be gracious and reasonable for the Labour Party to try to focus on the issue of access to justice—which, I hope, all of us want to secure—for people who have been subjected to some of the vilest crimes in Scotland?

Johann Lamont

I think that the First Minister, if he was serious about that, would be addressing the fact that the cabinet secretary’s response to people who raised concerns was to impugn the motives of those who were doing so. I ask the First Minister again to reflect on the cabinet secretary’s response to the Labour Party’s request for delay. The gap between that and what the First Minister is now saying could not be greater.

Let us look at the process from the start. When the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill was introduced, senior legal figures raised valid concerns about corroboration. Those were dismissed by the justice secretary, who told his party conference:

“laws are made by Parliament not one profession. This is ... not a debate between learned legal friends.”

When the Justice Committee raised more concerns, Kenny MacAskill came up with the genius idea of setting up an expert group to scrutinise the bill, which would report after the legislation was passed.

After Kenny MacAskill’s disgraceful performance in the chamber six weeks ago and his embarrassing climbdown, I ask the First Minister, in all seriousness, does he believe that this has been an appropriate way to take through legislation on an issue of this importance?

The First Minister

This Government is taking forward legislation because we absolutely believe that the issue is of vital importance. That has been our motivation for taking forward the legislation, because we have listened to the arguments and, indeed, the pleas of the organisations that I have listed.

I cannot help but contrast the observations of Johann Lamont on this issue with the observations of the organisations that have been campaigning for ways to redress this injustice and supporting the Government’s attempts to do so, such as the welcome from Rape Crisis Scotland and Victim Support Scotland for the Government’s continuing commitment to removing the general law of corroboration. Annabel Goldie yesterday described the cabinet secretary’s decision as “courageous”—I think that she did that not in a Sir Humphrey way but in a genuine way.

Therefore, when this Government, which has a majority in this Parliament, listens to the arguments that have been put forward by the Opposition parties and tries to get the maximum unity behind our proposal, is it not reasonable—given our bona fides on this issue and our desire to secure access to justice for the victims of crime—that that should have a general welcome and support?

The determination of this Government is to redress this situation, and that is exactly what we are going to do.

Johann Lamont

It is precisely because I care so deeply about these issues that we were determined to build a consensus on the making of such a decision. That is why the cabinet secretary’s hostility to anyone who disagreed with him was inappropriate. I ask the First Minister to go back and look at what his cabinet secretary said six weeks ago and ask whether that was an appropriate way for him to conduct himself.

Of course, this is not Kenny MacAskill’s first mess. His sectarianism legislation was described as “mince” and “horribly drafted”, and his police reforms have ended up in an embarrassing turf war.

Although I believe that the decision that has been announced this week is the right one, this Parliament still has a problem. We have to find a way of building a consensus to address the issues of corroboration and low conviction rates for rape. From the beginning, the Labour Party has said that we will do so. However, given Kenny MacAskill’s approach and his expressed hostility to those who raised genuine concerns about what he was doing, does the First Minister really believe that it is possible for this Parliament to reach that critical consensus on corroboration with Kenny MacAskill as cabinet secretary?

The First Minister

In terms of accepting the role of Lord Bonomy’s review group and the detailed examination of the issue that it will perform, and of helping people towards acceptance and ensuring that that consensus is built, the answer is yes, of course. Do I believe that the Labour Party will look upon this issue as being an issue in itself? Probably not. However, the consensus that Kenny MacAskill is building is across Scottish society. That consensus, as we see—[Interruption.]

I say to Johann Lamont that it is precisely because we care about this legislation so much that we pursued it with such vigour, and we will continue to do so.

I am interested in the question that Johann Lamont asks about the confidence that I have in the justice secretary. I will tell the chamber why I have confidence in him. We have 1,000 extra police in the streets and communities of Scotland, thanks to this justice secretary. Recorded crime in Scotland is down by 35 per cent, thanks to this justice secretary. Violent crime is down by almost a half under the office of this justice secretary. Crimes of handling offensive weapons are down by 60 per cent. Above all, people’s fear of crime in Scotland is dropping for the first time.

All those achievements of the justice secretary contrast with the position when the Labour Party was last in government, and the people of Scotland know and appreciate those things. They know that this Government has discharged its responsibilities to the communities of Scotland in a way that no previous devolved Administration managed. The real issues that matter to the people are contained in those vital statistics.

When we address the general rule of corroboration, we will do it on the basis of giving justice to the victims of crime. That will be the performance on which the Government and the justice secretary will be judged.


Prime Minister (Meetings)



2. To ask the First Minister when he will next meet the Prime Minister. (S4F-02029)

No plans in the near future.

Ruth Davidson

In February, the Cabinet Secretary for Justice gave a speech that many people, including Scottish National Party members, considered to be the most ill judged and intemperate in the history of the Parliament. In it, he claimed that those with principled objections to the abolition of a key tenet of Scots law were part of nothing more than a unionist conspiracy. His performance was shameful to watch.

Let us try this again. Now that the justice secretary has been forced into a climbdown, does the First Minister accept that Kenny MacAskill’s claim that Opposition parties were selling out the victims of crime because of our constitutional beliefs was as wrong as it was offensive?

The First Minister

I cannot help but contrast what Ruth Davidson has just said with a statement that was issued by Annabel Goldie yesterday. Annabel Goldie, who is the spokesperson for the Conservative Party on the issue, welcomed the justice secretary’s statement, welcomed the fact that the requests of the Opposition parties would be met and said that it took no little courage to make such a statement. What has happened between that generous welcome for the decision yesterday and the remarks that have just been made by Ruth Davidson? If we were to canvass opinion, we would find that many of us in the Parliament rather liked the days when Annabel Goldie was sitting where Ruth Davidson is sitting and Ruth Davidson did not have the leadership of her party.

Ruth Davidson

The difference is that I have never doubted the Scottish Government’s concern for victims of crime on this matter, just as the Government should never have doubted ours.

We have been here before. The First Minister has been forced to stand there and defend his justice secretary’s handling of al-Megrahi and the single police force. He is now being forced to defend his justice secretary on corroboration—the same justice secretary who has had bills for minimum unit pricing of alcohol and court reform taken off his desk and handed to other ministers. The justice secretary’s judgment is now being openly questioned by his colleagues as well as by his opponents. His judgment that the case to abolish corroboration has been made cannot be taken at face value.

The First Minister now has an opportunity to restore some of the credibility that was lost through Kenny MacAskill’s handling of the issue. He can do that by extending the remit of Lord Bonomy’s review to consider whether corroboration should be abolished at all. Will he?

The First Minister

Now we get to the nub of the issue. The request to delay the legislation so that Lord Bonomy’s review group can report and look at the safeguards that are necessary to make the abolition of the general rule of corroboration more widely acceptable was not really that at all, as far as the Conservative Party is concerned; it was actually root-and-branch opposition to the abolition of the general rule of corroboration. Of course, the Conservatives can express opposition to the abolition of the general rule of corroboration, but they cannot do that and complain about cases not being brought to court, as Murdo Fraser did on television. That particular vile case was an example of a case that could not be brought to court because of the general rule of corroboration.

The Conservative Party cannot have it both ways. It cannot say that it wants cases to be brought to court and justice for the victims of crime and then say that it is opposed root and branch to this necessary reform. This Government, in listening to the victims of crime, is doing exactly the right thing. We are doing the right thing in acceding to the request to let Lord Bonomy’s review group report, so that we can further build the consensus for necessary reform. That is the substance of the issue.

I have enormous confidence in a justice secretary who has delivered the lowest levels of recorded crime for more than a generation; who has put 1,000 extra police on the streets of communities in Scotland, where recorded crime is down by 35 per cent; and who has delivered on the issues that matter to the people of Scotland. That is the performance of this Cabinet Secretary for Justice.

We have a constituency supplementary from Christine Grahame.

Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)

On 30 January, I raised concerns about a norovirus outbreak in the Borders general hospital in my constituency. I regret to inform the First Minister that, three months down the line, the outbreak remains, a ward is closed to admissions and other restrictions are in place. Does he share my concerns about what appears to be a great delay in resolving the situation?

The First Minister

I share very much the concerns of the local member about the prevalence of norovirus in the Borders general hospital. As she knows, the general incidence of norovirus across Scotland is in a significantly better position than it was last year, for example. Nonetheless, it is of key concern that this particular incidence has not shown that general improvement. The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing will offer to meet Christine Grahame to progress any further action that can be taken in order to resolve the situation.


Food Poverty



3. To ask the First Minister what measures the Scottish Government is putting in place to tackle food poverty. (S4F-02040)

The First Minister (Alex Salmond)

The Trussell Trust reports that 71,000 people used food banks in the past financial year, which is a fivefold increase on the previous year, and that more than 17,000 children have received assistance from food banks. It is unacceptable that so many people in our rich country must rely on emergency food provision.

Jamie Hepburn

Last year, the United Kingdom Government wrote to Glasgow City Council. It made the incredible claim that the improved reduction in food waste was one of the drivers in the growth of food banks. Lord Freud, the Minister for Welfare Reform, has repeatedly stated that there is no link between his reforms and food bank use. Does the First Minister agree that such responses are symptomatic of a Westminster detached from reality and that it is outrageous that UK ministers have come up to Scotland today to lecture us on welfare when it is their welfare reforms that have caused the dramatic increase in the use of food banks in Scotland, which are used by tens of thousands of families with children?

The First Minister

Jamie Hepburn knows that, earlier this month, the Scottish Government announced an extra £1 million for an emergency food action plan to help combat food poverty, including £500,000 for emergency food aid. He also knows that we are investing at least £260 million over the period 2015-16 to try to limit the damage of the imposition of welfare cuts. We will as a Government continue to help the vulnerable wherever and whenever we can.

I heard the Secretary of State for Scotland on the radio this morning describe the welfare system that is being applied by the UK Government in the following terms:

“This is a fantastic system which provides support for some of the most vulnerable people in our communities.”

That is what the Secretary of State for Scotland, when speaking for better together, the campaign encompassing the Tories, the Liberals and the Labour Party, offered as an explanation on behalf of the parties that are dismantling the welfare state in this country and have driven people into food banks across Scotland. He is arguing that it is a fantastic system. That is not just out of touch with the truth, but out of touch with the reality.


Gender Equality Gap



4. To ask the First Minister what action the Scottish Government is taking to address the gender equality gap. (S4F-02031)

The First Minister (Alex Salmond)

It is totally unacceptable that women face inequality in significant areas of their lives. This Government has an on-going commitment to tackling that gender inequality through the allocation of resources and has undertaken a range of activity since taking up office.

There are good signs. The female employment rate is 69.4 per cent in Scotland, which is higher than any other United Kingdom nation; the inactivity rate is the lowest; 52 per cent of full-time college students are female and 43 per cent of those starting a modern apprenticeship in 2012-13 were women, which is up from 27 per cent in 2008-09. We should all agree that there is much still to be done. That is why we are consulting on women’s representation on public boards. On 9 June, we will host a women-only Scottish Cabinet event to provide a forum for the gender equality organisations of Scotland to discuss the opportunities for women in an independent Scotland.

Christina McKelvie

The First Minister will no doubt be aware that there has been much talk from anti-independence politicians this week about the supposed—obviously fantastic—benefits of having decisions on welfare and pensions made at Westminster. That is except, of course, for Iain Duncan Smith, who could not even front his own policy and come to Scotland today to make the announcement. What those politicians have all been silent on is how women—

Yes, but can we get a question?

Christina McKelvie

They have been silent on how women have been particularly hard hit by Westminster’s welfare cuts and on how they are likely to be hit by cuts to come. Can the First Minister assure the Parliament that, with the powers of independence, the Scottish Government will use every means at its disposal to make Scotland a fairer, more equal society?

The First Minister

The child tax credit and working tax credit changes will affect 110,000 households in Scotland, 88 per cent of which will be couples with children. The bedroom tax has hit 72,000 households, 80 per cent of which have a person with a disability in them. This Government took the action that was required to mitigate the impact of the bedroom tax in Scotland. We are still waiting, following repeated requests, for Westminster’s acceptance that what we are doing is appropriate and within our powers. While we are devoting the resources of Scotland to protecting the people of Scotland from the bedroom tax, we cannot even get a letter back from the Westminster Government. That is untenable, not just for the Tory-Liberal coalition but for those in the Labour Party who argue not that welfare policy could not be implemented in an independent Scotland but that it should not be implemented in an independent Scotland. Unless and until the Labour Party disavows that attitude from Jackie Baillie, it will be stuck, and it will be guilty by association with what is happening at Westminster under the Tory-Liberal alliance.

Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)

Is it not interesting that we waited for a year for the Scottish National Party to take action on the bedroom tax? The SNP’s record on gender equality is not good. Is it not the case that the SNP has slashed places at colleges? Is it not the case that the SNP has slashed jobs in the public sector? That all has a disproportionate impact on women. Is it not the case that the SNP has failed to deliver gender balance on the boards of public bodies, has failed to meet its own 40 per cent target for the number of applications from women and has spent a grand total of around £3,000 on advertising to promote public appointments? I cannot help but contrast that with the more than £1 million that has been spent on promoting the white paper on independence. Is it not the case, First Minister—

We have a number of questions there, Ms Baillie.

Is it not the case that the SNP talks a good game, but has actually—

I call the First Minister.

I offer Jackie Baillie two statistics. [Applause.]

Order.

The First Minister

I think that that was a delayed reaction from the Labour benches.

I offer Jackie Baillie just two statistics: 14 per cent and 40 per cent. Fourteen per cent was the percentage of women in Gordon Brown’s Cabinet when he left office. Forty per cent is the percentage of women who are now in the Scottish Cabinet.

Is Jackie Baillie totally unaware that employment in Scotland is now at an all-time record level, and that driving that increase in employment has been the sharp rise in the employment of women, mostly in full-time jobs? Can she not find it in her heart to welcome the improvement in the figures, to welcome the fact that Scotland now has the highest rate of women’s employment of any country in these islands? Does she not think that it might be something to do with the work of this Government and the Scottish Trades Union Congress in promoting exactly that? Does she not think it somewhat surprising not that we have a level of only 42 per cent of women entering modern apprenticeships, but that the level that we inherited from the Labour Party was 27 per cent? Just as 40 per cent is better than 14 per cent, 42 per cent is a lot better than 27 per cent.


Red Road Flats Site



5. To ask the First Minister what discussions the Scottish Government has had with Glasgow City Council concerning the future of the site of the Red Road flats following the demolition of the existing buildings. (S4F-02035)

The First Minister (Alex Salmond)

First, I think that it is worth noting the constructive manner in which Patricia Ferguson, as the local member, has responded to the concerns surrounding the Red Road flats and the Commonwealth games opening ceremony, which primarily affected her constituents.

Red Road is one of eight transformational regeneration areas in Glasgow in some of the most deprived areas of the city. The Government is part of a partnership with Glasgow City Council and Glasgow Housing Association that administers the work in those transformational regeneration areas.

Patricia Ferguson

I thank the First Minister for his answer. Does he agree that suitable alternative accommodation should be found for the asylum seekers who are living there as quickly as possible, and that all agencies in the city and the Scottish Government should now work collaboratively with the local community to prioritise dynamic and innovative regeneration of the 22-acre Red Road site, following demolition of the towers, in a way that will benefit the communities of Balornock and Barmulloch?

The First Minister

Yes, I agree with that, and I agree, incidentally, with the first part of the question. I know that the local member knows that the transformational regeneration areas and the partnership that applies them have done excellent work across major areas in Glasgow. There has been investment from the Government alone of £30 million in the construction of new homes in Toryglen, Gallowgate, Maryhill and Laurieston. I am certain that the partnership between the council, Glasgow Housing Association and the Government that administers the work will come forward with good ideas for the Red Road site, and I know that the partnership will want to have the widest possible consultation locally in order to achieve acceptance of the regeneration proposals—including, of course, by the local MSP.


Scotland’s Labour Market Conditions



6. To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government’s assessment is of labour market conditions in Scotland. (S4F-02033)

The First Minister

I am delighted that Kenny Gibson has asked that question, because it is very significant that the Opposition parties do not want to talk about the latest labour market data, which show that employment levels in Scotland are at their highest in history, with 2,575,000 people now employed. The employment level has increased by 68,000 over the year, driven by an increase of 46,000 in female employment. Scotland continues to have the highest employment rate, a lower unemployment rate and the lowest inactivity rate of any nation of these islands.

Success for George Osborne. [Laughter.]

Kenneth Gibson

I thank the First Minister for his reply. The recent Bank of Scotland report on jobs shows that Scotland’s labour market is continuing to recover and strengthen. Does he agree that, if Scotland can be relatively successful with the limited powers of devolution, we could achieve so much more with the full powers of independence? Can he advise Parliament what economic initiatives the Scottish Government will introduce following independence to cut unemployment in Scotland and to make it a more prosperous and more equal society?

The First Minister

I commend to Kenneth Gibson and all members of this Parliament not just the white paper, but the document on the economy that was published last November, which set out a range of initiatives to power forward the Scottish economy and employment market trends.

However, I heard—I think that I heard it right; it was certainly greeted with the appropriate amount of laughter—a comment from the Tory benches that the remarkable success in the employment figures in Scotland is to the credit of George Osborne. Is that the same George Osborne who, just over two years ago, said in an interview in the north-east of Scotland that he knew that international companies were hesitating to come to Scotland because of the upcoming referendum? Of course, he was striving and doing his best as chancellor to disavow that opportunity. Since then, we have had record levels of inward investment in Scotland. If that is the forecasting prowess of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the very last thing that even a Tory should do is try to claim the credit for the excellent job figures in Scotland.

The First Minister said that the Scottish Government has limited economic powers. How much credit can he realistically take for record growth, record employment and low unemployment?

The First Minister

In the brief period before Mr Brown is replaced by Mr Johnstone as the Tory economy spokesman, I will give Mr Brown this explanation. The interesting thing about the figures is the contrast, the movement forward and the differential between the Scottish figures and those for the rest of the United Kingdom—[Laughter.]

Order.

The First Minister

I think that it is of interest to the people of Scotland that we have record employment figures. It is reasonable to make the comparison and to say that, if the UK Government had implemented some of the fantastic policies that the Scottish Government has pursued, such as the small business bonus scheme and Mr Swinney’s decision to protect capital investment despite the swingeing cuts of Alex Johnstone’s hero—[Laughter.]

Order.

The First Minister

If the UK Government had pursued just some of those policies, perhaps it would be in a different position. It is reasonable for the Scottish Government to take the position that, if we can achieve a record level with the Parliament’s limited powers, there will be even greater success in Scotland’s job markets when we have all the economic levers at our disposal.