Plenary, 24 Mar 2005

Meeting date: Thursday, March 24, 2005

Official Report 754KB pdf

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First Minister's Question Time

Before questions to the First Minister, members will wish to welcome Bojan Kostreš, President of the Assembly of Vojvodina, in Serbia, and an accompanying parliamentary delegation. [Applause.]

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Prime Minister (Meetings)

To ask the First Minister when he will next meet the Prime Minister and what issues will be discussed. (S2F-1547)

I have no immediate plans for a formal meeting with the Prime Minister.

I take this opportunity to thank publicly the Clydesdale Bank for being the first private sector company in Scotland to make a donation to Scotland's Commonwealth games team's preparations for Melbourne next year. Its donation, which was announced this morning, is very welcome, and I hope that it will be the first of many. [Applause.]

I echo those remarks.

The First Minister's usual excuse for not cutting overall hospital waiting times is his focus on the three big killer diseases, including cancer. Is he aware that that excuse has been undermined by the news this week that the target for breast cancer treatment has not been met and that, according to Audit Scotland, the target for bowel cancer treatment will not be met? On the subject of bowel cancer, the Executive has said that one requirement of meeting its target is "sufficient numbers of beds". Has the number of specialist cancer beds in Scotland gone up or down since 1999?

We have established some challenging targets on cancer in Scotland, many of which have already been met—others are still to be met. The targets are challenging because cancer is one of Scotland's key killer diseases. We were absolutely right in making our priority tackling cancer waiting times and improving cancer treatments and diagnosis the length and breadth of the country. We do that in ways that use the best equipment and the best of our skills in the health service and we do it in ways that use not only hospital beds, but services in the community.

The missing ingredient from that reply was an answer to the question that I asked. Let me give the First Minister the answer. The total number of acute in-patient beds in Scotland has fallen by 5 per cent since 1999 and the number of specialist-staffed cancer beds has gone down by 11 per cent. That might be one reason why the treatment target is not being met. Is he aware that, as well as treatment delays, Audit Scotland found delays in first out-patient appointments for bowel cancer patients, of whom only 45 per cent see a consultant within two weeks of their referral? What is the corresponding figure in England?

As members will be aware, I do not think that we should automatically compare what happens here with what happens south of the border. In this case, however, I am very happy to do so, because, in relation to beds, in-patient waiting times and the treatment of killer diseases, we in Scotland compare favourably with the health service south of the border. We need to ensure that we have the facts in front of us when debating such issues. Ms Sturgeon might be willing to try to distort the picture in relation to hospital beds, but the decline in the number of specialist beds is a result of our hospitals and our health service making better use of hospital beds—they are using them in more flexible ways and it is right and proper that hospital staff should do that.

It is also the case that acute hospital beds are not required for individual treatments for as long as they used to be. For example, the average hospital stay for a gall bladder operation has dropped from 10 days to three days. A four-day stay was once required for cataracts, but now patients are treated with no overnight stay at all. With changes in the birth rate, the need for obstetric beds has also reduced. Our hospitals do not need rows and rows of empty beds; they need more staff, more treatments and more equipment. The needs of the health service must be properly reflected in our expenditure priorities, which is precisely what we have ensured is happening.

I remind the First Minister that I asked about specialist cancer beds, the numbers of which are going down precisely because of a lack of specialist staff. Yet again, the answer to my question was missing in his rather long-winded response.

Is the First Minister aware that the most recent figures show that, in England, 99.2 per cent of bowel cancer patients see a consultant within two weeks of urgent referral, whereas only 45 per cent of such patients do so in Scotland? Given that cancer care is a chosen priority on which the First Minister regularly boasts about Scotland outperforming England, why do more than half of bowel cancer patients in Scotland wait more than two weeks to see a consultant while less than 1 per cent of such patients do so in England? Does he not have some serious explaining to do?

As we debated last week and the week before, those figures are precisely due to the situation with out-patient waiting times in Scotland. That situation, after much delay, is now finally starting to improve. It is right that that is now happening in our health service, given the priority that should perhaps have been given in the past to out-patient waiting times but is certainly being given now. Changes are being seen, with dramatic reductions both in out-patient waiting lists and in out-patient waiting times. Those reductions in waiting times are to be seen right across the specialities.

I remind Ms Sturgeon that the report from which she quoted does not say only that the targets for cancer treatment will be challenging and difficult to meet. The report also states:

"Bowel cancer services in Scotland are performing well against clinical standards and waiting times are improving."

It states:

"Scotland's managed clinical networks for bowel cancer have made good progress in auditing clinical practice and promoting high quality care."

It also says:

"Most bowel cancer patients in Scotland receive high quality, well co-ordinated care."

However, Ms Sturgeon did not want to quote those parts of the report, which recognise the efforts of health service staff and the investment that we are providing.

Last week, the First Minister said in the chamber that all targets were being met and that Scotland was doing better than England, but I have shown that both those assertions are false. All patients wait too long in the national health service in Scotland. Is it not the case that we now know that cancer patients also wait too long? When will he stop offering excuses for failure and start delivering some results for Scottish patients?

As I said last week very clearly, the targets that were set for in-patients have been met in Scotland ahead of the rest of the United Kingdom and we remain the place for the best and fastest levels of such treatment in the United Kingdom. On out-patients, we are far behind England, but we are now reducing out-patient waiting lists and waiting times, which reduced dramatically in the final quarter of last year and will come down towards our target of six months, which we intend to meet by the end of this year.

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Cabinet (Meetings)

To ask the First Minister what issues will be discussed at the next meeting of the Scottish Executive's Cabinet. (S2F-1548)

The Cabinet will not meet next week, but at our next meeting we will discuss issues of importance to the people of Scotland.

I hope that the Cabinet will get round to discussing its enterprise strategy. As the First Minister will be aware, the Scottish Executive's stated aim is to create a smart, successful Scotland in which, the Deputy First Minister and Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning has stated,

"We need ambitious, innovative people in our small, medium and large companies".

Does the First Minister think that a top rate of income tax of 50 per cent would help or hinder the meeting of that Scottish Executive policy objective?

Some members on the Executive benches may take a different view from me on those matters and I recognise their right to do so. Very fortunately in this Parliament, we do not have the powers to raise income tax beyond 3 pence in the pound. We know what the characters on the SNP benches would do. They would have taxes in Scotland go through the roof to pay for the promises that they make every week in the chamber.

In Scotland today, we are not just pursuing the right policies for a smart, successful Scotland and using our resources effectively to help to create a smart, successful Scotland, but putting in place the right culture for a smart, successful Scotland. That was recognised last week by the chancellor when he announced that our enterprise in schools initiative—ahead of the game and the best in the United Kingdom—would be copied elsewhere. We hope that the rest of the UK does not catch up with us and that we stay ahead of the game in the years to come.

The First Minister seems curiously reluctant to offer an opinion on what I thought was a simple question. Does it seem odd to him that we have a Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning whose responsibility is to encourage entrepreneurs and businesses in Scotland but whose party's policy is in direct conflict with those ministerial aims? Does the First Minister think that a 50 per cent tax penalty would encourage a new generation of entrepreneurs like Tom Hunter, Ann Gloag and Tom Farmer? Does he think that a 50 per cent tax rate would encourage dynamic young graduates to stay in Scotland or enterprising executives to come here under his fresh talent initiative? We may well ask the First Minister why, given the views that he holds, Jim Wallace is in charge of enterprise in Scotland when he is very much anti-enterprise.

Jim Wallace is doing an excellent job as Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning, as evidenced by the announcements in the past month of significant investment in Glasgow and in Stirling by top-quality international firms that are coming to Scotland because of the skills and culture that we have in place and the infrastructure that backs up those skills and that culture. If Mr McLetchie wants to talk about the choices that might exist in an election campaign, I am happy to do so, too. He can debate 50 per cent tax rates with the Liberal Democrats in another place and at another time, but I remind him that the top tax rate was higher than that for most of Mrs Thatcher's period in office.

I also remind Mr McLetchie that he has yet to answer the point that I put to him last week in the chamber. His party said on the record just six weeks ago that it would publish its proposals for cuts in Scotland's budgets before the general election. However, it promised last Thursday not to do so, but to keep them secret until after the general election. Let us not have Mr McLetchie debating with me a proposal by the Liberal Democrats on tax. Let us have a debate about his proposals for cutting the Scottish budget and let us explain to the people of Scotland the impact that those proposals would have not just on health, education and tackling crime, but on our enterprise strategy.

Once again, we seem to be back at leader of the Opposition's question time instead of First Minister's question time. I reiterate the points that we made last week. Under a Conservative Government, there will be no cuts in the Scottish budget, but there will be cuts in Scottish taxes paid by Scottish taxpayers.

Having reflected on "A Smart, Successful Scotland" in relation to a disastrous policy of increasing taxes in Scotland, I now turn to an area in which that strategy is being undermined by a specific proposal in the chancellor's budget last week. As the First Minister will know, "A Smart, Successful Scotland" was meant to be reinforced by the creation in Scotland of some 140 enterprise areas to benefit the most deprived wards. In order to assist that and to promote economic growth in urban regeneration, stamp duty on commercial property transactions in those areas was abolished in 2003. However, that relief has been ended prematurely in this year's budget. Is that not a blow to some of our most deprived and disadvantaged communities? What steps, if any, is Mr McConnell's Executive taking to compensate for that loss?

We seem to have moved from leader of the Liberal Democrats' question time to Chancellor of the Exchequer's question time. I took the liberty of not commenting on the Liberal Democrats' proposals on tax for the election, but I am certainly prepared to defend the chancellor's decisions. Last week, the chancellor announced a doubling of the threshold for stamp duty across the country. People in the House of Commons said that that would be of no use to Scotland whatsoever, when in fact it will be a direct benefit to many people in Scotland—not just to first-time home buyers, but to many others, too.

Mr McLetchie might want to divert attention on to another part of his set of proposals, but the reality is that the budget last week will not only encourage enterprise and ensure that the amazing stability in the United Kingdom economy over the past eight years, which was never matched at any time in 18 years of Conservative government, and the amazing investment in public services, which was never matched at any time in 18 years of Conservative government, are both in place, but introduce measures to encourage home buying and to ensure that young people can, with support from the chancellor, enter the housing market for the first time. The chancellor is right on that issue and he has my full support.

We will have one constituency question.

The First Minister will be aware of the 176 job cuts that are proposed at BBC Scotland headquarters, which is in my constituency, and the economic impact that that will have on Scotland. Does he share my view that the impact of such cutbacks can only be to undermine the quality of output and the case for public service broadcasting, which has been so important in promoting devolution and Scotland's distinct culture? Does he share my concerns about plans to move to more local news at the expense of national programming? Will he assure me and the Parliament that, in so far as those issues are devolved, he will resist any detrimental economic and cultural impact on Scotland?

Those are decisions for the BBC to take in the light of its judgment about what is best for Scottish viewers. However, I believe that it is vital that we seize—across the BBC and, crucially, the private independent television production sector in Scotland—the opportunities that might be available as a result of BBC reorganisation, because there will be a significant increase in production in Scotland in years to come. That is an opportunity for our creative industries and I hope that they take it.

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Mordechai Vanunu

To ask the First Minister what representations the Scottish Executive will make to the Israeli Government requesting it to allow world peace campaigner, Mordechai Vanunu, to visit Scotland to take up his role as rector of the University of Glasgow. (S2F-1566)

The Scottish Executive has had no representation from the University of Glasgow on the matter. Any response to such a representation would involve consultation with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.

I hope that the First Minister accepts that Mordechai Vanunu is recognised across the world as a man of peace, a man of principle, a man who demands justice for the Palestinian people and a man who, after being kidnapped by the Israeli state, spent 18 years in jail for exposing Israel's nuclear weapons programme. Given that the Parliament has discussed nuclear weapons this morning, I am sure that the First Minister understands the importance of that. Is the First Minister aware that Mordechai Vanunu's bail conditions are up for their six-monthly review on 21 April? Will he make representations to the United Kingdom Parliament and to the European Parliament to urge them to make every effort to ensure that Mordechai Vanunu's human rights to speak and to return to Europe are recognised?

In general, those are issues for the UK Government and for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. If we receive representations from the University of Glasgow about the representation of students there, we will be happy to discuss the matter with both the University of Glasgow and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.

I am disappointed that the First Minister cannot be more forthright. That is the second time that he has opted out of giving an opinion on the matter. What does he think of the decision by University of Glasgow students to elect Mordechai Vanunu as their rector? Mordechai Vanunu is a potent symbol of hope, of peace in the middle east and of justice in the world. Will the First Minister encourage all Scots to e-mail or write to the Israeli embassy in London or the Minister of the Interior in Jerusalem, or to sign the petition that has been organised by The Herald newspaper, to demand Mordechai Vanunu's release from the new prison outside a jail that his bail conditions in effect create? Finally, does the First Minister accept that there would be no better sight to greet the arrival in Scotland in July of hundreds of thousands of visitors, who wish to see peace in the world and to make injustice history, than Mordechai Vanunu standing at the head of the march?

I understand that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the British Government have made regular representations on the matter to the Israeli Government. I am sure that they will continue to do so.

If I had been a student at the University of Glasgow during the recent rectorial election, I suspect that I might have voted for the Labour candidate for rector. She was a good candidate and she would have served the University of Glasgow well. However, given that the students at the University of Glasgow have chosen to make a public statement in support of human rights in that part of the world by electing Mordechai Vanunu, it is important for us to recognise that they have made that statement and to listen to any representations that they make calling on us to make representations on their behalf.

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Justice System (Victims of Crime)

To ask the First Minister how reforms to the justice system will meet the needs of victims of crime. (S2F-1561)

Earlier this week, the Minister for Justice announced our proposed reforms to the summary justice system. The reforms will ensure that justice is carried out, and is seen to be carried out, more effectively throughout Scotland. If they are successful, there should be less delay, more effective punishment and more confidence in the system on the part of victims.

The First Minister referred to the Minister for Justice's announcement this week on reforms to the summary justice system, which include fiscal compensation orders. How does the Executive intend to engage with communities to reassure them that such alternatives to custody do not constitute a soft option and can meet the needs of victims of crime, given that there will be no formal court process?

It is important to stress that the reforms are not alternatives to custody; they are measures that will ensure more prompt and effective justice for victims, but only in cases that would not normally result in a prosecution plea for a custodial sentence. When the new sentences to toughen up our justice system are used, the victims and the communities affected by criminal behaviour will be able to see that justice has been carried out. For that reason, we will provide more information to communities than ever before about the way in which the justice system is defending them. We are already producing more information for individual victims than ever before on the decisions that are taken on their behalf in our courts. As was announced this week, more information will be available to victims in future.

I draw the First Minister's attention to a gap in provision for victims in the immediate aftermath of a serious crime. There is great variation in the service provided to victims of crime, particularly by some police forces. For example, victims of crime are not provided with information on counselling and other support services that are available to them. Furthermore, they are not kept sufficiently abreast of progress on investigations or told when someone is being brought to justice for their crime. Will the First Minister examine that gap and determine whether we can find a better way of providing those services, especially in the immediate aftermath of a crime, when victims are at their most vulnerable?

I agree entirely with Alex Neil's objective. We have seen significant improvements in this area—among the very best improvements in any public service in Scotland over the past five years. With the reforms that we have introduced to court procedure and to the way in which the police operate at a local level and—crucially—with the clear direction and new legislation that gives rights to victims in Scotland, victims get more information more often than ever before. However, too many victims throughout Scotland are provided with patchy and incomplete information. That is why we are persisting not just with the implementation of the many decisions that we have already taken, but with further measures. The measures that were announced this week will ensure that victims receive more information more quickly, which can only be the right thing for us to do.

The measures to which the First Minister refers will effectively air-brush criminals out of the criminal justice system—no record, no conviction. Victims in Scotland will no doubt be open mouthed at that. The proposal is to increase greatly the burden of the imposition of fines, but the existing system for the collection of fines is failing lamentably, so how on earth does he expect collection to improve?

Annabel Goldie has had an honourable reputation in the Parliament as someone who deals with issues in the proper manner—until recently. The exaggeration and misrepresentation of our reforms to the justice system by her and the Conservative party in recent weeks are shameful and will wrongly scare victims throughout Scotland. The reforms will improve the justice system and ensure that people are dealt with more quickly and effectively and that they are less likely to reoffend.

Answer the question.

We will not take people out of custodial sentences, but ensure that people are dealt with through the fiscal compensation fine in a way—

Answer the question.

Order, Mr Gallie.

Mr Gallie perhaps does not like the answer to the question, but he must listen to it.

Our measures will improve the execution of justice in Scotland. More people will see more action against criminals who commit crimes in our communities and more victims will be informed as a result.

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Schools (Healthy Eating)

To ask the First Minister what progress is being made to encourage pupils to eat healthy food during school hours. (S2F-1552)

I am proud that Scotland is leading the way in the United Kingdom on improving school meals. Our flagship programme, the hungry for success initiative, is delivering much-needed improvements to the school meals service across Scotland.

Many people welcome the fact that the issue is higher up the agenda in Scotland than it is elsewhere in the UK, where it has taken the sterling efforts of a celebrity chef to spur the Government into action. However, does the First Minister accept that Scotland has a long way to go to defuse the ticking time bomb that is the poor diet of many children in Scotland, especially in the light of last week's figures that showed that obesity is on the rise among under-18s in Scotland? Will he explain to parents in Scotland why, six years into devolution, nurseries that are funded by Labour councils in his back yard of Lanarkshire are teaching children how to buy burgers and fries at McDonald's? Does that ludicrous situation not make a mockery of his efforts and what is he doing about it?

We are unlikely to improve the diet of Scotland's children through stunts in the parliamentary chamber. However, we will ensure that, across the length and breadth of Scotland, not just in primary and secondary schools, but—as the Deputy Minister for Education and Young People made clear yesterday—in our nursery schools, the hungry for success programme is implemented and there are healthier meals. We will also see the provision of free fruit in the early years of primary, the provision of water and milk, the reduction in advertising for commercial products and the efforts to increase physical exercise among young people, all of which are making a difference. Year by year, piece by piece, those changes will ensure that the next generation in Scotland will be significantly healthier than the present one is.

I thought for a minute that the First Minister was suggesting pieces all round.

Will the First Minister examine the parallel between the situation that led to the Executive's policy change on the recruitment of specialist physical education teachers—a gap had arisen—and the situation in relation to home economics teachers? Is he aware that, in 2003, only 14 home economics teachers graduated and, I think, only 1.1 per cent of highers applicants took home economics? We should follow the same path as we took with the recruitment of physical education teachers. The whole subject must be considered, but specialist home economics teachers are needed in schools now.

I am not sure what the current situation is, but I am sure that the Minister for Education and Young People would be happy to write to Margo MacDonald on the issue. As part of our comprehensive programme of improving diet and exercise in Scotland, we need not only to have the 400 new PE teachers that we are committed to providing and the hungry for success programme to improve school meals, but to ensure that, as part of the curriculum in schools, youngsters are taught life skills that will help them to provide healthier food for their children in years to come. We need a comprehensive programme in relation to exercise, diet and skills for the future and we are working on all three.

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Faith-based Schools (Teachers)

To ask the First Minister whether faith-based schools are able to discriminate against teachers because of sexual orientation. (S2F-1558)

Local authorities cannot discriminate against teachers solely on the ground of sexual orientation, in faith schools or in any other schools. Teachers should be chosen on their ability in the classroom, not on their personal relationships.

Does the First Minister agree that there would be a concern about public funding going to schools that were not conforming to requirements that had been enacted under the European convention on human rights?

I hope that those circumstances would not arise. Schools in Scotland should be choosing their teachers on the basis of people's ability to impart knowledge and to inspire confidence and a desire for learning in young people and they should be ensuring that teachers conduct themselves in the most professional manner in the classroom. Those are the qualities according to which teachers should be chosen.

Given the large number of lesbian, gay and bisexual people who are doing a fine job teaching in Scottish schools but feel themselves to be under a direct threat of a purge based on bigotry, not faith, what reassurances can the First Minister give that under no circumstances will that threat be realised? What reassurance can he give that their contribution to the education of Scotland's young people is valued highly?

I think that I have just given those reassurances. I hope that they are sufficient on the matter.

During First Minister's question time, we were joined by four members of the United States of America's House of Representatives: Congressmen Oxley, Duncan, McIntyre and Scott. We welcome them to the Scottish Parliament. [Applause.]

Meeting suspended until 14:00.

On resuming—