Official Report 984KB pdf
The next item of business is stage 3 proceedings on the Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill.
In dealing with the amendments, members should have the bill as amended at stage 2—Scottish Parliament bill 25A—the marshalled list, the supplement to the marshalled list and the groupings of amendments. The division bell will sound and proceedings will be suspended for around five minutes for the first division at stage 3. The period of voting for the first division will be 45 seconds. Thereafter, I will allow a voting period of one minute for the first division after a debate.
Members who wish to speak in the debate should press their request-to-speak button, or enter RTS if they are joining us remotely, as soon as possible after I call the group. Members should now refer to the marshalled list of amendments.
Section 7—Meaning of regulatory functions
Group 1 is on regulatory functions, complaints and so on. Amendment 116, in the name of Paul O’Kane, is grouped with amendments 129 and 139 to 141.
I am pleased to speak to amendment 116 and to my other amendments in the group. As we begin today’s proceedings, I set out my thanks to all stakeholders for their engagement and briefings in advance of stage 3 and throughout the bill process, as well as my thanks to the minister and her team, who have largely been co-operative and responsive to many of the concerns through what has been a long process. Although I sense that we might still end up with some disagreement today, we will certainly start off in a positive vein.
I will speak first to amendment 116. Section 7 sets out the meaning of regulatory functions. However, section 7 does not specifically detail that administering any compensation fund that is required under section 14 of the bill will be a regulatory function. The existing fund, which is maintained by the Law Society of Scotland under the Solicitors (Scotland) Act 1980, is a crucial consumer protection, and the administration of that fund—the guarantee fund—is currently defined as a regulatory function under the 1980 act. I note that the minister told me in writing in advance of this afternoon’s proceedings that she considers that the issue has already been covered in the bill. If she could set out in her remarks how that is the case and the Government’s full position that it is a regulatory function, that would be most helpful to me and, I am sure, to colleagues in the chamber. I might not then press amendment 116.
15:30Amendments 129 and 139 to 141 seek to restrict the conduct complaints that are brought against solicitors in relation to them discharging regulatory functions on behalf of regulators, as defined in the bill. The concern behind the amendments is that an increasing number of spurious conduct complaints are being brought against solicitors discharging regulatory functions, which has a real impact on their ability to carry out those functions. In my opinion, that can be to the detriment of the public interest. The time spent dealing with such complaints places a burden on the regulator, and such conduct complaints can drive risk-averse behaviours by those exercising regulatory functions. It can also impact on the regulator’s ability to recruit and retain solicitor members of regulatory staff. All of that leads to a slowing down, with difficulties in completing regulatory processes.
I would be interested to hear what Paul O’Kane has to say in response to the position of the Scottish Legal Complaints Commission on amendments 129 and 141 in particular. One of the points made by the SLCC is that it is uncomfortable in applying standards and processes to others that it would not apply to itself. I would be interested to hear how Paul O’Kane answers that critique of those two amendments.
I appreciate that there are competing views and issues in this space. That position has perhaps been counterbalanced by the view of the Law Society of Scotland and others on what needs to be done so as not to place that onerous burden on to regulators, as I have outlined. I recognise what Maggie Chapman is saying, and I take it on board. I am keen to hear what the Minister for Victims and Community Safety has to say about those issues.
I want to be clear that my amendments in this group should not restrict the ability to raise a conduct complaint about other matters that would fall outside the exercise or discharge of regulatory functions. Additionally, solicitors who are engaged in the delivery of regulatory and disciplinary work for a legal services regulator should not and would not be immune from criticism or accountability. Indeed, parties on either side of a regulatory matter are entitled to express their disagreement with the substance and manner of the arguments that are made by solicitors who work on regulatory matters.
I note that the minister has said that she is aware of the issues and that she is happy to continue to engage on the matter with the Law Society and other stakeholders, as would be necessary. I wonder whether she would be willing to make a further commitment on the record on that today, as well as outline the potential steps that she believes are open to the Government to act on the issue in the future, if that is needed and if an agreed position can be found. If she can provide some of those assurances on further remedies in this area, I might not be minded to press or move my amendments—and I am cognisant of Maggie Chapman’s point as well. I reserve the right to push the amendments, however: I believe that the issue is important with regard to the functioning and capabilities of regulatory processes and, consequently, our public interest.
I move amendment 116.
I thank all members and stakeholders for their constructive engagement in respect of the bill. I understand that Paul O’Kane has lodged his amendments in this group on behalf of the Law Society of Scotland.
I consider that amendment 116 is not necessary, as the bill already provides that the establishment and management of a compensation fund is a regulatory function of the Law Society as a category 1 regulator. That is because section 7 of the bill, which provides that “regulatory functions” include “complying with the requirements” under the bill, is to be read with section 14, which places a requirement on the Law Society to “establish and maintain” a compensation fund. It is clear from section 14 that a category 1 regulator “must establish and maintain” a compensation fund. That requirement is then caught by the definition of “regulatory functions” in section 7.
Amendments 129 and 139 to 141 would make provision to restrict conduct complaints that are brought against solicitors in relation to them discharging regulatory functions. The Law Society raised that matter with the Scottish Government following stage 2. Although I appreciate and understand the concerns that were raised, I consider that amendment 531, which was agreed to at stage 2, will give all relevant professional organisations the flexibility to discontinue a conduct complaint that has been remitted to it if the relevant professional organisation considers that it is in the public interest to do so. It provides a route to address the concerns that are raised.
As Mr O’Kane alluded to at the start of his speech, there are competing views, and, as we know, there is a history with this bill of trying to find a balance for both sides. Given the SLCC briefing that has been sent to members, I will continue to engage with the Law Society to monitor the operation of the new provisions. I consider that the matter would benefit from further consultation and consideration. I therefore ask Mr O’Kane not to press or move his amendments in the group. If he does so, I urge members to oppose his amendments.
I call Paul O’Kane to wind up and to press or withdraw amendment 116.
I think that our exchange of views on the issues raised by this section of the bill has been useful, and I am grateful to Maggie Chapman and the minister for their comments. Given the minister’s assurances, I choose to withdraw amendment 116.
Amendment 116, by agreement, withdrawn.
Section 18—Professional indemnity insurance
Group 2 is on the regulation of legal businesses. Amendment 117, in the name of Paul O’Kane, is grouped with amendments 118, 1, 119 to 126 and 138.
I will deal with the more minor amendments in the group first, before dealing with the important issue of registered foreign lawyers.
Amendment 123 will make changes to section 42 to allow category 1 regulators to make rules about the effect of an authorisation of a legal business that is a partnership or another unincorporated body where the membership of the legal business changes or another legal business succeeds to the whole, or substantially the whole, of its business. It deals with an ambiguity in Scots law regarding traditional partnerships to ensure that, where there are changes to membership, there is a swift transfer of authorisation of interests of the business. I am grateful to the minister for her indication that the Government is willing to support amendment 123, which will be important in delivering justice and support to those who require it when there is such a change, as I have outlined.
Amendment 126 will remove section 44(2)(a)(ii), which currently requires practice rules of authorised legal businesses to have regard to “regulatory objectives”. Overarching regulatory objectives are applicable to regulators, and it is regulators who must adhere to them. Instead, legal providers must adhere to professional principles, which are already covered elsewhere in the bill, so the subparagraph is an incorrect reference that has to be removed from the bill. I am grateful to the minister, again, for indicating that she is minded to support amendment 126, which seeks to clarify and clear up the bill as drafted—and, subsequently, if it is agreed to, the legislation.
Amendments 124 and 125 would remove from section 44 a paragraph and a subparagraph that require practice rules to include the process for the making and handling of complaints. Given that complaints processes are currently set out in statute, there has been concern among stakeholders that the current provisions in section 44 might not be appropriate or, indeed, legally competent. However, the minister’s written explanation to me about the necessity of the powers that are provided to the SLCC to direct minimum standards has been very helpful for my understanding of the purpose of the subsections. If the minister will provide detail of that on the record in her contribution, I would be most grateful and, subsequently, minded not to move those two amendments.
I turn to my remaining amendments in the group, which are amendments 117 to 122 and 138, regarding qualifying individuals and the status of registered foreign lawyers. The issue is critical to the functioning of the legal services market in Scotland; it was debated extensively at stage 2 and we heard evidence on it at stage 1.
If we do not get definitions of the status of registered foreign lawyers correct, in order to provide legal certainty that they are permitted to part-own authorised legal businesses as part of multinational practices, that could have a particularly concerning impact on the legal services market in Scotland. The ownership structures of some of our largest and best-known law firms could be threatened by the implementation and interpretation of the statute.
It is difficult to overstate the level of concern that that has caused within the legal profession, because it is a significant issue that many lawyers feel has been left in the balance for the past two years. We are talking about the ability of some of the UK’s largest law firms to operate here in Scotland, which concerns thousands of jobs and tens of thousands of clients.
It has taken a substantial number of months to get to where we are with the bill. If the matter is not resolved, is there not a real risk that—perhaps not overnight, but in the very short term—we could see the ownership and control of law firms in Scotland going to other jurisdictions, which could create an incredibly risky knock-on effect here in Scotland?
In my contribution I have outlined, and will continue outlining, the concerns that are being raised, which are those that Mr Whitfield has outlined.
In particular, there is a sense that many established and well-known law firms, particularly trade union lawyers and those that support people with personal injury claims, may have issues with operations in Scotland because the bill has not clarified structures.
The minister is well aware of those issues and the potential implications for the legal services market if we do not get that right. As I said, those issues were raised during previous stages of the bill process and in correspondence from the Law Society, which has neatly explained why the bill, as drafted, should be remedied. The Law Society said:
“As a result, the provisions of Section 39 of the Bill as they stand conflict with the provisions of the 1980 Act. If RFLs”—
registered foreign lawyers—
“are included in the definition of ‘qualifying individual’, then Section 39(2) at the very least implies that one or more RFLs may form a legal business owned exclusively by RFLs, without any Scottish solicitor ownership, and that business would require and be capable of authorisation under the Bill, when that is not correct.
Conversely, if RFLs are not included in the definition of ‘qualifying individual’ and no separate provision is made for them, then Section 39 does not permit existing MNPs”—
multinational practices—
“to be authorised, which would prejudice the continuation of some of Scotland’s largest and most successful law firms, many of which are MNPs.”
In an attempt to tidy up the matter, the minister has indicated her intention to alter the explanatory notes on the definition of qualifying individuals. I am also aware of her correspondence with the Law Society only yesterday, in which she confirmed that she intends to adopt its draft text of a revision to the explanatory notes. It would be helpful to have on the record, without equivocation, that it is, indeed, the minister’s intention to adopt the Law Society’s text for a revision to the explanatory notes.
However, we are dealing with a central issue that has been a focus of concern since the bill was introduced, two years ago, so I am concerned that that letter of last night was the first time since stage 2 that the Government has directly laid out its position to the Law Society, which would be responsible for regulating all these matters and has repeatedly raised the issue.
As I have outlined, the matter is critical for the legal services market in Scotland, and so, despite that last-minute adjustment to the Government’s position, I will press my amendments to ensure that the matter is beyond doubt and to take what might be called a belt-and-braces approach. As things stand, I will move the amendments when they are called and I urge members to support them.
I move amendment 117.
I will begin by speaking to my own amendment 1 before moving to those lodged by Paul O’Kane.
The Law Society of Scotland has asked for clarification of registered foreign lawyers being included among the “qualifying individuals” as defined in section 39 of the bill.
At stage 2, I agreed to correct and strengthen the explanatory notes to make it clear that registered foreign lawyers are included as “qualifying individuals” as they exist at present and to make it clear that part 2 of the bill, on the regulation of legal businesses, does not change the basis on which existing individual rights to practise are still required by the existing underlying legislation. That will be done in the explanatory notes to the act if the Parliament agrees to pass the bill today.
I confirm that I have engaged extensively with the Law Society of Scotland. I wrote to it last night, outlining the position and confirming that I am happy to adopt its suggested wording in the explanatory notes. In particular, registered foreign lawyers will still be required to work with other solicitors in Scotland in order to practise where that is already provided for in the existing legislation. The new regime in part 2 of the bill will not change that.
15:45My amendment 1 will define “legal business” in section 18 by reference to the definition of that term in section 39(2) in order to make the definition consistent in the bill. That will provide additional clarification in the bill’s provision on professional indemnity insurance. The effect will be similar to that of Paul O’Kane’s amendment 119, but my amendment 1 means that amendment 119 is unnecessary, as defining “legal business” by reference to the definition of that term in section 39(2) also draws in the definition of “qualifying individual” as set out in section 39(8).
Although I recognise the intention behind Paul O’Kane’s wider amendments in the group—amendments 117 to 122 and 138, which have been developed by the Law Society—we consider that they would have unintended consequences. In particular, they would in some ways rule out use of the structures in part 2 of the bill, which will otherwise cater for those types of lawyers and allow them to be brought in as qualifying individuals if they are made licensed providers or if the other rules that govern them are changed.
On that basis, Mr O’Kane’s amendments are unnecessary, and they would be problematic in some respects as they would specifically refer to “registered European lawyers” and “registered foreign lawyers”, rather than their being included under “qualifying individuals” in the bill. The amendments would provide less future proofing to implement the legal structures in the bill.
Amendments 124 and 125 would delete section 44(1)(e), which sets out that practice rules are to include rules about
“the making and handling of any complaint about an authorised legal business”.
I consider that, given the provisions that will allow the Scottish Legal Complaints Commission to make minimum standards for complaints handling in consultation with the profession and the Lord President, it is important that section 44(1)(e) remains as a mechanism to apply those standards.
After careful consideration of amendments 123 and 126, I am content to support them.
I therefore ask Mr O’Kane not to press amendment 117 and not to move his other amendments in the group, with the exception of amendments 123 and 126. If amendment 117 is pressed—
Will the minister take an intervention?
I will.
I am grateful to the minister for taking the intervention, particularly at the peroration of her remarks. Does she have confidence that the commitment to amend the explanatory memorandum after the bill becomes an act represents enough of a guarantee? Is she confident that the interpretation that will be placed on it not only by the regulators but also, perhaps, by the courts will be strong enough for it to reflect the Government’s change of view and ensure that we correctly encompass overseas registered lawyers?
I am. I think that adopting the text that the Law Society has provided and putting it in the explanatory notes will ensure that that will be done. As I said earlier, Paul O’Kane’s amendments could have unintended consequences.
I therefore ask Mr O’Kane not to press amendment 117 and not to move his other amendments in the group, with the exception of amendments 123 and 126. If amendment 117 is pressed or if any of the other amendments is moved, I urge members to oppose it. I ask members to support my amendment 1 and Mr O’Kane’s amendments 123 and 126.
Ms White, do you wish to contribute to the debate on the group?
My questions have been asked, Presiding Officer.
In that case, I call Paul O’Kane to wind up and press or withdraw amendment 117.
The minister discussed the Law Society’s view and the exchange of letters that happened yesterday. She mentioned unintended consequences a number of times, but it is not clear from my discussions with the Law Society what those would be. It is concerned that it does not have clarity on what the minister has referred to. Indeed, it is keen that we take what I have described as a belt-and-braces approach by putting the issue at the forefront of the bill.
Although I intend still to move forward in that regard, I understand and respect what the minister said about her revision to the explanatory notes and her willingness to accept the Law Society’s wording on the issue, which will go some way to finding the compromise that we are looking for. However, given the significant concerns that have been raised by the Law Society in its correspondence, I will press amendment 117.
The question is, that amendment 117 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members: No.
There will be a division. As this is the first division of the stage, I suspend the meeting for five minutes.
15:50 Meeting suspended.
We will proceed with the division on amendment 117, in the name of Paul O’Kane, which will be a one-minute division. Members should cast their votes now.
The vote is closed.
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. My platform would not connect. If it had, I would have voted yes.
Thank you, Mr Leonard. I will make sure that that is recorded. [Interruption.]
I can reassure Ms Baker that her vote has been counted.
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. My app would not connect. I would have voted no.
Thank you. I will make sure that that is recorded.
For
Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con)
Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)
Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab)
Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con)
Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con)
Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con)
Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab)
Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab)
Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con)
Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab)
Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con)
Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con)
Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con)
Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con)
Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con)
Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con)
Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con)
Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab)
McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab)
Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab)
Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con)
O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab)
Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab)
Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con)
Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab)
Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab)
Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con)
White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con)
Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab)
Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con)
Against
Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP)
Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)
Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP)
Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP)
Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP)
Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP)
Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green)
Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP)
Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green)
Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP)
Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP)
Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP)
Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP)
Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)
Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)
Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP)
Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP)
FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP)
Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD)
Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green)
Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP)
Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)
Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP)
Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP)
Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)
Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP)
MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP)
MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP)
Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green)
Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP)
Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Rona Mackay]
Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP)
Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind)
Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP)
McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn]
McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP)
McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP)
McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP)
McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD)
Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP)
Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green)
Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green)
Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP)
Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP)
Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP)
Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP)
Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP)
Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP)
Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP)
Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP)
Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD)
Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP)
The result of the division is: For 49, Against 71, Abstentions 0.
Amendment 117 disagreed to.
Amendment 118 not moved.
Amendment 1 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.
Amendment 119 not moved.
Section 19—Review of regulatory performance by the Scottish Ministers
Group 3 is on review of regulatory performance: request from the Scottish Parliament. Amendment 2, in the name of the minister, is the only amendment in the group.
Amendment 2 makes it clear that any request that is made by the Scottish Parliament to the Lord President to review the performance of a category 1 or a category 2 regulator can be made only following a resolution of the Scottish Parliament in plenary.
I move amendment 2.
Nobody else has asked to speak, minister. Do you wish to add anything by way of winding up?
I wish to confirm that the provision will not affect the ability of the Scottish Legal Complaints Commission’s consumer panel or Consumer Scotland to request a review.
Amendment 2 agreed to.
Section 20—Measures open to the Scottish Ministers
Group 4 is on minor and technical amendments. Amendment 3, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 4, 10, 17 to 21, 24 to 27, 61, 63, 98 to 106, 108 to 112, 114 and 115.
Amendments 10, 61, 98 to 100, 102, 114 and 115 are minor and technical amendments that correct or update cross references.
Amendments 3, 17 to 21, 24 to 26 and 103 to 106 correct errors and tidy up the bill.
In relation to amendment 4, section 37 of the bill applies the new provisions that relate to regulators that are accredited under the bill to regulators that are approved under section 26 of the Law Reform (Miscellaneous Provisions) (Scotland) Act 1990—for example, allowing a review and updating of the regulatory scheme at the direction of the Lord President. To date, the only regulator that is approved under section 26 of the 1990 act is the Association of Commercial Attorneys.
Section 32A, which was inserted at stage 2, allows for a review and updating of the regulatory scheme to take place at the regulator’s own initiative as well as at the direction of the Lord President. Section 35A, which was inserted at stage 2, introduced a role for the Lord President in securing replacement regulatory arrangements for authorised providers, where their accredited regulator has ceased to operate.
Amendment 4 amends section 37 of the bill to apply the provisions of the proposed new sections that sections 32A and 35A would insert into the Solicitors Scotland Act 1980 to the Association of Commercial Attorneys.
Section 76 of the bill expands on the information that must be included in the SLCC’s annual report and also requires the SLCC to consult the Lord President, the consumer panel and each regulator.
Amendment 27 responds to concerns that were raised by the SLCC and makes it clear that the requirement to consult is triggered at an early stage in the process, before the report is prepared.
Regarding amendment 63, section 47(1) of the Solicitors (Scotland) Act 1980, as amended at stage 2, provides that an authorised legal business must not, without written permission from the Law Society of Scotland, employ a solicitor who has been struck off the roll or suspended from practice.
The sanction for acting in contravention of that requirement is set out in section 47(4) of the 1980 act. As amended by the bill, the provision sets out that any authorised legal business acting in contravention of the requirement will have its authorisation to provide legal services automatically withdrawn for a period determined by the Scottish Solicitors discipline tribunal, or by the court, in the case of appeals against the refusal to be granted permission by the Law Society.
Amendment 63 instead provides for a more flexible approach to imposing sanctions, allowing the tribunal, or the court, in the case of an appeal, to impose conditions or restrictions on the authorisation of an authorised legal business to provide legal services.
Amendment 101 ensures that there is a right of appeal against decisions to restore a solicitor’s practising certificate, subject to conditions in cases in which the solicitor has complied with requirements relating to the refunding of excessive fees charged to a client.
Amendments 108, 109 and 112 move a provision that was inserted into section 16 of the 1980 act at stage 2 to its correct place in section 34 of that act.
Amendments 110 and 111 insert titles into sections of the 1980 act. That was noted by the Law Society of Scotland and the Scottish solicitors discipline tribunal.
I ask members to support the amendments in my name.
I move amendment 3.
As no other member has asked to speak, is there anything that you wish to add in winding up, minister?
No, thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.
Amendment 3 agreed to.
Section 37—Transitional and saving provision for regulators approved under the 1990 Act
Amendment 4 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.
Section 39—Requirement for legal businesses to be authorised to provide legal services
Amendments 120 and 121 not moved.
Section 41—Rules for authorised legal businesses
Amendment 122 not moved.
Section 42—Authorisation rules
Amendment 123 moved—[Paul O’Kane]—and agreed to.
Section 44—Practice rules
Amendments 124 and 125 not moved.
Amendment 126 moved—[Paul O’Kane]—and agreed to.
Section 45—Financial sanctions
Group 5 is on cost recovery. Amendment 127, in the name of Paul O’Kane, is grouped with amendments 128, 136 and 91.
Colleagues might have been missing the sound of my voice. I am very grateful to the minister for her indication that she will not move her amendment 91 and is instead minded to support my amendments 127, 128 and 136.
My amendments deal with the issue of cost recovery by regulators when collecting a financial penalty that has been imposed on a business. Although the penalty is payable to the Scottish ministers, it is the regulators that collect it, so they will incur costs. It does not seem reasonable or fair for the rest of the legal profession—and, by extension, the consumers who consume legal products—to cover the costs of that process.
My amendments would allow regulators to recover reasonable costs and build in flexibility to discontinue or resume collection where it becomes unreasonable or unfeasible to collect the financial penalty.
I believe that, by collaborating on these amendments, we have put together a set of provisions that would bring more natural justice to the process for both lawyers and consumers.
I move amendment 127.
After careful consideration of amendments 127, 128 and 136, in Paul O’Kane’s name, I am content to support them. I ask members to support Mr O’Kane’s amendments in the group. I will not move amendment 91.
I call Paul O’Kane to wind up and say whether he wishes to press or withdraw amendment 127.
I have nothing further to add, and I press the amendment.
Amendment 127 agreed to.
Amendment 128 moved—[Paul O’Kane]—and agreed to.
Section 54—Commission process relating to complaints
Group 6 is on “Complaints: process”. Amendment 5, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 5 to 9, 11 to 16, 135, 22, 23 and 83 to 90.
I turn first to the amendments in my name.
Section 54(7) of the bill repeals section 12 of the Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Act 2007, which specifies how the Scottish Legal Complaints Commission must notify the complainer and practitioner of a decision to uphold or not uphold a services complaint. The SLCC and I agree that that is too restrictive, so the amendments provide for minor and technical changes to add additional flexibility. As a result, amendments 9, 83, 84, 85 and 88 amend paragraph 26 of schedule 3 to the bill to remove the express requirement that notice under sections 3, 8, 16, 17 and 24 of the 2007 act must be given in writing.
Amendment 5 repeals section 45 of the 2007 act, which relates to the giving of notices, and amendment 89 is a consequential amendment.
New section 20A enables the complainer and the practitioners to whom the complaint relates to apply to the SLCC for a review of its decisions as listed in the provision. An amendment that was passed at stage 2 now allows the SLCC to discontinue the investigation of a complaint if the practitioner accepts a settlement that is proposed by the SLCC but the complainer does not. Amendment 7 ensures that that decision by the SLCC is reviewable, thereby securing a right of review and enhancing transparency and accountability in the complaints process.
Section 61 of the bill inserts new section 17A into the 2007 act, giving the SLCC the power to request practitioner’s details in connection with complaints. Amendments 12 and 13 expand the powers in section 17A to cover the investigation and reporting of handling complaints. The changes also enable the power to be used by the SLCC where it initiates a conduct or regulatory complaint.
Amendments 86 and 87 amend section 17 of the Legal Services Act 2007 by adding a reference to new section 2A, following the stage 2 amendments that inserted complaints initiated by the SLCC and handling complaints, to the list of sections mentioned in the 2007 act. That is to address and rectify an SLCC concern regarding the omission of handling complaints from the powers in sections 17 and 17A.
Amendment 14 amends section 66 of the bill, which in turn amends paragraph 1 of schedule 3 to the Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Act 2007, which lists what the rules for the practice and procedure of the SLCC must include.
The effect of amendment 14 is that the rules must include provision to require complaints that are
“frivolous, vexatious or totally without merit to be considered ineligible”,
which would mean the SLCC need not take any further action other than to give notice of that fact to the complainer, the practitioner and any other person as required under the rules.
Amendment 6 and consequential amendment 8 remove the ability to review the decision to categorise a complaint as a conduct complaint or as a regulatory complaint. We agree with the SLCC’s view that these decisions should not be open to review, particularly given the introduction of hybrid complaints, which means that complaints can now be categorised as both types—conduct and regulatory.
Amendments 15 and 16 make small changes to section 66 of the bill, which amends schedule 3 to the 2007 act. The changes mean that the SLCC practice and procedure rules—that relate to the recategorisation of a services complaint—include regulatory complaints.
16:15I turn now to Mr O’Kane’s amendments. I cannot support amendment 135, as it would weaken the SLCC’s authority to set standards in complaints handling. The minimum standard setting was introduced in response to calls for more independent regulation of legal services from stakeholders that represent consumer interests. Consumer bodies support the strengthening of the SLCC’s independent oversight of the setting of minimum standards for complaints handling. As members will remember, the committee heard evidence from Rosemary Agnew, the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman, that this is best practice. Giving the Lord President a direct role in determining whether guidance that sets minimum standards is to be complied with—or not—may be viewed as a step away from the consumer-focused approach. I do not think that allowing a veto on the setting of minimum standards, potentially prior to SLCC consultation, is in the consumer’s interest.
The current procedure in the bill for setting and issuing minimum standards is aimed at providing greater quality assurance and continuous improvements in complaints handling. As currently drafted, the process is open and transparent. Prior to issuing any guidance that sets minimum standards, the SLCC would carry out a consultation to seek the views of those persons—or their representatives—who would be affected. The SLCC must consult the Lord President, the regulators, practitioners and any other appropriate persons on the initial proposals. The SLCC must again consult the regulators and other appropriate persons on any subsequent drafts. It must take into account any representations that have been made and, further to that, publish a document that summarises the consultation that has been undertaken, the responses and any changes that have been made to the guidance as a result. The SLCC must also give its reasons for including the minimum standards. As a statutory consultee, the Lord President will have had an opportunity at that initial stage to express their views on the proposed minimum standards.
The intention is that the regulators and the Lord President have an opportunity to raise any concerns or challenge any proposed minimum standards through the initial statutory consultation process. As an iterative process, ultimately, given the role of the Lord President in approving a regulatory scheme—which must contain practice rules about the making and handling of complaints, as well as any revisions to it—the Lord President could withhold consent to any subsequent practice rule changes to reflect those standards if they retained concerns with the proposals. That would require the SLCC either to address any concerns that the Lord President raised or to abandon the proposal. The SLCC considers that adding even more stages to the process would add cost to the system and potential delay in addressing emerging consumer protection issues.
Moving on to Mr O’Kane’s other amendments in this group, I am pleased to have been able to work with him on his amendments 11 and 90, which provide relevant professional organisations with the power, when they are considering initiating a complaint against a practitioner or an authorised legal business, to give notice to the practitioner—or the practitioner’s firm or the authorised legal business—requiring the production and delivery of the documents that are specified in the notice relating to the complaint. The amendments will allow all lawyers who are working for the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service to be exempt from any requirement that is placed on them to provide information to prevent interference with their prosecution functions and independence. I am grateful to Mr O’Kane for taking on board my concerns and I am content to support amendments 11 and 90.
I am also pleased to have been able to work with Mr O’Kane on his amendments 22 and 23, which provide expressly that the Law Society of Scotland, which has discretionary powers to disclose information when it is in the public interest to do so, is not subject to the restriction in section 52(1) of the 2007 act, and that the SLCC, which has discretionary powers to disclose information when it is in the public interest to do so, is not subject to the restriction in section 41(1) of the 2007 act. I am therefore content to support amendments 22 and 23.
I urge members to support amendments 5 to 9, 12 to 16 and 83 to 89, in my name, and amendments 11, 22, 23 and 90, in the name of Paul O’Kane. However, I ask them not to support amendment 135, in Mr O’Kane’s name.
I move amendment 5.
For clarification, I remind members that we are currently dealing with group 6.
I thank the minister for her co-operation and, indeed, collaboration on amendments 11, 22, 23 and 90, in my name.
Amendments 11 and 90 would provide relevant professional organisations that are considering initiating a complaint against a practitioner or an authorised legal business with the power to give notice to the practitioner, or the practitioner’s firm, or the authorised legal business, requiring production or delivery of the document specified in the notice relating to the complaint. Those amendments would allow lawyers who work for the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service to be exempted from any requirement placed on them to provide information, to prevent interference with their prosecutorial functions and independence.
Amendments 22 and 23 would expressly provide the Law Society of Scotland with discretionary powers to disclose information where it was in the public interest to do so.
I believe that all my amendments would be extremely important for ensuring the swift resolution and advancement of complaints and also for ensuring that there is strong transparency around their resolution. I believe that they would represent good news for achieving transparency and proactive regulation.
Also in this group is my amendment 135, which would permit relevant professional organisations to appeal SLCC directions on minimum standards to the Lord President, for his determination. I whole-heartedly agree with the minister that the SLCC’s ability to direct minimum standards would provide for a strengthening of the consumer voice and, it is to be hoped, would lead to improved practices within the complaints process. I note that members of the profession have widely accepted that view.
However, I think it reasonable to consider that, like any person or organisation, the SLCC is not infallible and therefore might issue guidance that did not account for certain circumstances. Such guidance could be impractical or simply wrong. Even if the processes that include consultation with affected stakeholders were observed, wrong or impractical conclusions could be drawn and evidence could simply be ignored.
In those instances it would seem fair to give the profession a mechanism to voice its concerns to a third party. My amendment 135 would require that it be put before the Lord President for final consideration, at which point he could uphold the direction, either in part or in full, or vary it.
The Lord President has indicated his agreement with that position, in principle, in a letter that he sent to the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee ahead of stage 3. In it, he stated that the senior judiciary’s view was that the bill should be amended so that the Lord President is given a power to approve the SLCC guidance, which sets minimum standards before they are imposed on a regulatory body. The Lord President approves the practice and disciplinary rules of the Law Society and the Faculty of Advocates. If minimum standards from the SLCC are to be included in rules which the Lord President approves and the Lord President does not agree with these rule changes because the SLCC minimum standards are not workable or appropriate, the senior judiciary thought it would be unlikely that the Lord President would approve those rules.
I note that, without my proposed mechanism, in particularly egregious examples, the only avenue that would be available to relevant organisations would be to seek judicial review. That would be significantly more costly and more time consuming than any costs or delays that might result from the ability to refer guidance to the Lord President for a final direction.
It appears that the minister and I are at odds on that point. However, it seems to me that amendment 11, in my name, would provide a reasonable safeguard.
I thank the minister and her officials for our constructive and helpful conversations at various stages of the bill’s progress. The committee supports most of the amendments in group 6. However, I am not convinced by the minister’s argument on amendment 14, which would reinstate the wording “frivolous, vexatious and totally without merit” that we removed at an earlier stage.
I understand the intention—at stage 2 we discussed the issue at length in order to ensure that complaints that are clearly intended to waste time can be dealt with swiftly. I agree that that is important. However, the SLCC does not support amendment 14, and it argues that we should grasp the opportunity that the bill provides to remove legalistic, offensive or archaic jargon and replace it with more consumer-friendly language.
The terms that are referenced in amendment 14 are not just archaic or inaccessible legal jargon; they have derogatory meanings in ordinary contemporary English, and so they will almost inevitably have a negative impact. Just because a body of case law is attached to the terms is not reason enough to keep them. The terms will likely have to be changed sometime—surely sooner rather than later is better.
The commission has said that the streamlined triage processes that are outlined in the bill would allow complaints that require further investigation to proceed swiftly to resolution or the relevant regulator and those that do not require investigation to be dealt with quickly without delay. The SLCC is the expert in handling complaints, which includes communicating to consumers when a complaint cannot be taken forward. If the commission says that the amendment’s wording is unhelpful, we should perhaps respect its expertise. In her winding-up speech, I would be grateful to the minister if she could say why we should not do that in this case.
I appreciate that Mr O’Kane’s amendment 135 is a Law Society amendment, but, as we have all known throughout the passage of the bill, there has to be a balance for consumers and the legal profession. My view is that amendment 135 would weaken the SLCC’s authority to set complaints handling standards. Consumer bodies support the strengthening of independent oversight by the SLCC.
I recognise what the minister is outlining, but does she recognise the letter that came from the Lord President and his view that his office should be the final port of recourse before a complaint potentially has to go to judicial review? Does she share my concern that judicial review can be costly and slow things up even more?
No, we do not share your view and have to agree to disagree. A lot of concessions have been made to the legal profession throughout the bill process. We also have to look after consumer bodies, which is why we will oppose amendment 135.
Maggie Chapman will be aware that amendment 14 was raised at stage 2. We have engaged with the SLCC on the approach to the wording in order to find a compromise and progress with a flexible approach that allows the SLCC to investigate a complaint more quickly while retaining the requirement to reject complaints that are without any merit. That is why we lodged amendment 14.
Amendment 5 agreed to.
Section 57—Commission decision making and delegation
Amendment 129 not moved.
Section 58—Commission review committee
Amendments 6 to 8 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.
Section 60—Disclosure of information by practitioners etc to the Commission and relevant professional organisations
Amendments 9 and 10 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.
Amendment 11 moved—[Paul O’Kane]—and agreed to.
Section 61—Power of Commission to request practitioner’s details in connection with complaints
Amendments 12 and 13 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.
Section 65—Unregulated providers of legal services: voluntary register, annual contributions and complaints contributions
Group 7 is on a register of unregulated legal services providers. Amendment 130, in the name of Tess White, is grouped with amendments 131 to 134 and 142.
16:30
I thank the minister for her constructive engagement on section 65, following stage 2 consideration of the bill. Amendments 130 to 134 and 142, in my name, allow the Scottish Government to lay regulations that would give specific organisations the mechanism to request that an unregulated provider of legal services is formally registered.
At stage 2, I lodged amendments from the Law Society that sought to change the voluntary register for unregulated providers of legal services in section 65 to make the register mandatory. The Law Society’s position was that a voluntary register that requires payment of levies and fees and that subjects a service provider to a statutory complaint scheme is
“unlikely to attract a meaningful uptake”,
and I agree.
The Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee’s stage 1 report called on the Scottish Government to strengthen the provision and consider “creating a mandatory register”. Stakeholders such as the Competition and Markets Authority have made similar calls. However, the Scottish Legal Complaints Commission raised concerns about how the amendments at stage 2 would work in practice.
My view remains that it is in the public interest to have a mandatory scheme. Consumers currently have no recourse that would enable them to raise complaints about an unregulated provider.
I am pleased at stage 3 to have worked with the Scottish Government to find a way to strengthen section 65 that satisfies stakeholders. The Law Society states in its stage 3 briefing that my amendments
“significantly toughen up the provisions in the Bill”
and lay the foundations to begin to address the issues in the unregulated sector. The SLCC states that the amendments take
“a proportionate and risk-based approach”.
I am grateful to the Law Society and the SLCC for their expertise and insights during this process, which has led to a positive outcome for consumers. I urge colleagues to support these changes.
I move amendment 130.
I thank Tess White for her engagement and contribution to the bill through amendments 130 to 134 and 142. Those amendments significantly enhance the clarity and structure of the provisions relating to the registration of unregulated legal services providers under the Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Act 2007. The amendments collectively strengthen and enhance transparency and ensure that the process for registration in the voluntary register for unregulated legal services providers is both accountable and consultative.
I ask members to support the amendments in Tess White’s name.
I call Tess White to wind up and to press or withdraw amendment 130.
I have nothing further to add, other than to thank the minister and others who were involved for their input and engagement on this package of amendments.
Amendment 130 agreed to.
Amendments 131 to 134 moved—[Tess White]—and agreed to.
Section 66—Unregulated providers of legal services: voluntary register, annual contributions and complaints contributions
Does any member object to amendments 14 to 21 being moved en bloc?
Yes.
Ms Chapman, is it simply amendment 14?
Yes, amendment 14.
Amendment 14 moved—[Siobhian Brown].
The question is, that amendment 14 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members: No.
There will be a division.
The vote is closed.
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I did not manage to connect. I would have voted yes.
I will make sure that that is recorded.
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I had the same issue. I could not connect. I would have voted yes.
I will make sure that that is recorded.
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I, too, could not connect. I would have voted yes.
I will make sure that that is recorded.
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I would have voted yes.
I will make sure that that vote is recorded.
For
Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP)
Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)
Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP)
Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con)
Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP)
Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)
Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab)
Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con)
Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP)
Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP)
Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con)
Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP)
Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab)
Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab)
Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP)
Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP)
Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP)
Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP)
Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con)
Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)
Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab)
Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)
Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP)
Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con)
FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP)
Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con)
Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con)
Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD)
Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con)
Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP)
Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP)
Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con)
Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP)
Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)
Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP)
Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con)
MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP)
MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP)
Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP)
Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Rona Mackay]
Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP)
Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind)
Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP)
McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn]
McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP)
McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP)
McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP)
McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab)
Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab)
Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con)
Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab)
Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP)
Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab)
Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con)
Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab)
Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP)
Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP)
Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP)
Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab)
Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP)
Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP)
Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP)
Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP)
Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con)
White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con)
Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab)
Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP)
Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con)
Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP)
Against
Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green)
Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green)
Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP)
Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green)
Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)
Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green)
Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green)
Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green)
The result of the division on amendment 14 is: For 104, Against 8, Abstentions 0.
Amendment 14 agreed to.
Amendments 15 and 16 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.
Section 67—Conduct or regulatory complaint raised by relevant professional organisation
Amendments 17 to 21 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.
Section 69—Complaints: monitoring and setting of minimum standards by the Commission
Amendment 135 moved—[Paul O’Kane].
The question is, that amendment 135 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members: No.
There will be a division.
For
Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con)
Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)
Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab)
Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con)
Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con)
Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP)
Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con)
Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab)
Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab)
Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con)
Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab)
Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con)
Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con)
Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con)
Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con)
Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con)
Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con)
Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab)
McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab)
Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab)
Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con)
O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab)
Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab)
Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con)
Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab)
Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab)
Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con)
White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con)
Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab)
Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con)
Against
Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP)
Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)
Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP)
Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP)
Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP)
Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP)
Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green)
Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green)
Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP)
Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP)
Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP)
Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP)
Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)
Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)
Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP)
Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP)
FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP)
Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD)
Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green)
Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP)
Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)
Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP)
Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP)
Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)
Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP)
MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP)
MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP)
Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green)
Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP)
Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Rona Mackay]
Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP)
Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind)
Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP)
McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn]
McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP)
McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP)
McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP)
McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP)
Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green)
Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green)
Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP)
Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP)
Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP)
Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP)
Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP)
Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP)
Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP)
Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP)
Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP)
The result of the division is: For 48, Against 67, Abstentions 0.
Amendment 135 disagreed to.
Section 71C—Restriction on disclosure of information: Commission
Amendment 22 moved—[Paul O’Kane]—and agreed to.
Section 71E—Restriction on disclosure of information: relevant professional organisations
Amendment 23 moved—[Paul O’Kane]—and agreed to.
Section 72—Conduct complaints: power to impose unlimited fine and removal of power to award compensation
Amendments 24 to 26 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.
Section 76—Commission reports
Amendment 27 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.
Before section 78
Amendment 136 moved—[Paul O’Kane]—and agreed to.
We move to group 8, on licensed legal services providers: changes to the Legal Services (Scotland) Act 2010. Amendment 28, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 29, 30 and 65 to 67.
Amendment 28 makes it clear that different licence fees can be charged to different types of applicants for different types or categories of a licence to reflect the fact that there are now many types of business models entering the legal services market, such as those providing incidental financial services. The amendment allows for the charging of bespoke fees to be permissible under the Legal Services (Scotland) Act 2010. Allowing the charging of such fees would be part of the regulatory scheme rules. They would need to be approved by Scottish ministers, with the agreement of the Lord President, thus ensuring a check on the fee charging. An example of a licence that would apply only to certain businesses would be an incidental financial business licence.
Amendment 29 repeals section 49 of the Legal Services (Scotland) Act 2010. That removes the requirement that, for business entities to be eligible to be a licensed provider, they must be at least 10 per cent owned by solicitors or members of other regulated professions. That simplifies the regulatory framework and potentially broadens the pool of eligible professionals, which will encourage more diverse ownership structures within the legal profession and foster innovation and competition while maintaining high standards of professional conduct.
Under the 2010 act, an approved regulator must be satisfied that all non-solicitor investors are fit to have an interest in a licensed provider, for example in terms of their financial position and character. Section 64(4) of the 2010 act provides that, if a non-solicitor investor is a body, the regulator must be satisfied as to the fitness of both the body and any person having ownership or control of that body.
Amendment 30 relaxes that requirement so that it only applies in respect of persons who have significant control or ownership, as determined by the approved regulator, taking a more proportionate approach.
The bill repeals section 1 of the 2010 act, removing the duty on regulators to comply with specified regulatory objectives in the act in favour of the new regulatory objectives introduced by part 1 of the bill. Amendment 65 similarly repeals the obligation on legal services providers to have regard to the regulatory objectives under the 2010 act. Instead, those providers will need to adhere to the professional principles set out in part 1 of the bill. That change will reduce the regulatory burden on legal services providers, making compliance more straightforward while maintaining high professional standards.
Sections 77 and 78 of the 2010 act are, therefore, not needed. Section 77 requires approved regulators to act compatibly with the regulatory objectives in that act, and section 78 requires approved regulators to issue a policy statement in relation to section 77. Amendment 66 repeals those sections, and amendments 65 and 67 make related consequential changes.
I move amendment 28.
Amendment 28 agreed to.
Section 80—Majority ownership
Amendment 29 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.
After section 80
Amendment 30 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.
Section 86B—Safeguarding interests of clients
Group 9 is on safeguarding. Amendment 31, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 32 to 58, 60, 62 and 64.
Where a solicitor or authorised legal business is unable to continue to operate, the safeguarding provisions that the bill inserts into the Solicitors (Scotland) Act 1980 enable the Law Society to take on any client account of that former solicitor or authorised legal business. That includes the ability to make a direction requiring the former authorised legal business to take any specified action.
My amendment 34 will allow for an authorised legal business to appeal such a direction to the court. Although the process is a protective one that can be put in place urgently, it is important that such matters can be tested by the court, and the court’s decision is final. I am aware that the Law Society has raised concerns about delay, but we think that that can be catered for by the courts in urgent circumstances. Following stage 2, the Lord President also raised the issue of whether there should be an appeal.
16:45The safeguarding provisions in proposed new section 46A of the Solicitors (Scotland) Act 1980 will apply in relation to an authorised legal business that is comprised of a “sole solicitor”. Amendment 45 provides a definition of that term. Together, amendments 37 and 38 make it clear that the safeguarding provisions will also apply where the sole solicitor has, for any reason, ceased to practice. At present, similar but not identical requirements to satisfy the Law Society apply in those circumstances under section 46 of the 1980 act.
Amendment 42 follows amendments at stage 2 to set out duties that an authorised legal business must comply with within 21 days of its sole solicitor ceasing to practise. Although the requirements are different, they are not onerous. Vesting in the Law Society, as is provided for in the bill, will not, as the Law Society has said, apply unless the solicitor is disqualified, as in the provision at present. The main point is to give the Law Society the ability to make a direction. The amendment will also enable a solicitor or authorised legal business to whom a direction is given to appeal against it to the Court of Session, as I mentioned previously.
Amendments 31 to 33, 35, 36, 39, 40 to 44, 47, 46, 48 to 58, 60, 62 and 64 are minor technical amendments to update the drafting style and to correct minor errors such as cross-references.
I ask members to support my amendments in the group.
I move amendment 31.
The Scottish Conservatives are broadly supportive of the amendments in the group. However, as the minister has said, the Law Society has flagged two amendments, in particular, that it believes are problematic. Amendments 34 and 42 would create a new right for a business to lodge an appeal to the court when the Law Society directs it, as part of its remit to intervene directly in the public interest. The Law Society has raised serious concerns about that approach, which it believes weakens public protections by delaying the ability to take necessary action to safeguard client assets. It gives the example of a conveyancing transaction to demonstrate the need to intervene urgently to protect client interests.
Has the Scottish Government taken into consideration the unintended consequences of the provisions, which could negatively impact the consumer?
I, too, press the minister on the concerns that have been expressed by the Law Society and others regarding amendments 34, 38 and 42. Throughout the bill process, the Government and members across the Parliament have been trying to strike the right balance between effective and efficient regulation and the interests of consumers and their protections.
I am concerned that introducing the appeal mechanism that is provided for in amendment 34, on top of existing and other court actions, for situations in which a regulator has intervened in a failed firm and given directions to safeguard client interests, could delay the ability to act at speed. Tess White gave the example of a client filing to complete an urgent conveyancing transaction when it might be impossible to complete that transaction. That is a serious issue. I am sure that many of us are familiar with the circumstances of being in a chain and needing speed when involved in conveyancing. Has the minister weighed the potential consequences for consumers? Why does she feel that the proposed additional right of appeal is so critical?
On amendment 38, I ask what consideration the minister has given to the unintended consequences of the catch-all mechanism that she has created for triggering safeguarding mechanisms under proposed new section 46A of the 1980 act, given that there are reasons for cessation of practice, such as retirement, that do not necessitate safeguarding mechanisms being triggered.
Similarly, on amendment 42, I worry about the practicality of requiring all sole practitioners who cease practising to prepare and submit interim accounts and to notify all clients within 21 days, when a date for cessation is often not determined until well after the fact.
Regarding the appeal rights and directions from the regulator for which amendment 42 provides, I refer members to the arguments that I outlined earlier in relation to amendment 34.
As they stand, I am concerned that the amendments, both individually and together, are unnecessary. I think that they are impractical and contrary to the interests of consumers, and members on this side of the chamber are minded to oppose them.
When I agreed at stage 2 to support Tess White’s amendment in respect of safeguarding the interests of clients, I said that I would revisit the provisions at stage 3 to ensure that they worked fully with the wider legislation and that I would make any adjustments that were necessary to reflect the wider policy intention.
Given the implications for practitioners, and following consideration of a query from the senior judiciary, I have lodged amendments 34 and 42, which would provide an appeal mechanism on the 14-day appeal timescale and would make the appeal final. That would allow directions to be appealed before the court in a timely manner, as the power is wide and can affect a variety of persons. An appeal on a genuinely urgent matter may be expedited by the court to avoid delay.
Regarding the Law Society’s concerns about what amendments 38 and 42 would require from a business that is being wound down, perhaps due to a solicitor retiring, I do not consider that the duties that would flow from that would be unreasonable. The right for the client accounts to vest in the Law Society would apply only in relation to a practitioner who had been disqualified and would therefore not create undue requirements.
The other duties that are set out in amendment 42 are to prepare interim accounts that would, in particular, detail all sums held on behalf of clients, and to send a copy of those accounts to the Law Society. In the case of the orderly winding down of a business, that would be straightforward and would involve notifying clients of the intention to cease practice and of the powers that the Law Society has to safeguard clients and, finally, satisfying the Law Society that it had complied with the requirements to inform clients.
I ask members to support my amendments.
Amendment 31 agreed to.
Does any member object to amendments 32 to 58 being moved en bloc?
Members: Yes.
For clarification, are the amendments concerned amendments 34, 38 and 42?
Members: Yes.
Amendments 32 and 33 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.
Amendment 34 moved—[Siobhian Brown].
The question is, that amendment 34 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members: No.
There will be a division.
The vote is closed.
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. My app would not connect. I would have voted yes.
Thank you, Ms McNair. I will make sure that that vote is recorded.
For
Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP)
Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)
Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP)
Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP)
Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP)
Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP)
Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP)
Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP)
Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP)
Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP)
Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP)
Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)
Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)
Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP)
Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP)
FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP)
Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP)
Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP)
Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP)
Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)
Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP)
MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP)
MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP)
Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP)
Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Rona Mackay]
Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP)
Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind)
Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP)
McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn]
McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP)
McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP)
McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP)
McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP)
Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP)
Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP)
Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP)
Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP)
Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP)
Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP)
Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP)
Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP)
Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con)
Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP)
Against
Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con)
Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)
Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab)
Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con)
Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green)
Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con)
Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con)
Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green)
Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab)
Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab)
Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con)
Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab)
Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con)
Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con)
Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con)
Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con)
Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD)
Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green)
Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con)
Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)
Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con)
Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con)
Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green)
Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab)
McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab)
Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab)
Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con)
O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab)
Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green)
Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab)
Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con)
Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green)
Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab)
Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab)
Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con)
White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con)
Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab)
Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD)
The result of the division is: For 59, Against 58, Abstentions 0.
Amendment 34 agreed to.
Amendments 35 to 37 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—agreed to.
Amendment 38 moved—[Siobhian Brown].
The question is, that amendment 38 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members: No.
There will be a division.
For
Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP)
Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)
Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP)
Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP)
Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP)
Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP)
Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP)
Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP)
Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP)
Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP)
Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP)
Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)
Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)
Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP)
Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP)
FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP)
Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP)
Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP)
Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP)
Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)
Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP)
MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP)
MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP)
Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP)
Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Rona Mackay]
Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP)
Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind)
Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP)
McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn]
McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP)
McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP)
McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP)
McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP)
Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP)
Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP)
Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP)
Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP)
Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP)
Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP)
Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP)
Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP)
Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP)
Against
Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)
Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab)
Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con)
Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green)
Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con)
Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green)
Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab)
Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab)
Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con)
Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab)
Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con)
Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con)
Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con)
Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con)
Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD)
Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green)
Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con)
Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)
Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con)
Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con)
Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green)
Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab)
McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab)
Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab)
Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con)
O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab)
Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green)
Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab)
Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con)
Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green)
Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab)
Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab)
Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab)
White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con)
Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab)
Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con)
Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD)
The result of the division is: For 59, Against 55, Abstentions 0.
Amendment 38 agreed to.
Amendments 39 to 41 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.
Amendment 42 moved—[Siobhian Brown].
The question is, that amendment 42 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members: No.
There will be a division.
For
Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP)
Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)
Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP)
Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP)
Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP)
Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP)
Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP)
Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP)
Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP)
Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP)
Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP)
Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)
Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)
Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP)
Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP)
FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP)
Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP)
Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP)
Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP)
Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)
Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP)
MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP)
MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP)
Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP)
Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Rona Mackay]
Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP)
Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind)
Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP)
McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn]
McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP)
McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP)
McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP)
McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP)
Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP)
Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP)
Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP)
Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP)
Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP)
Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP)
Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP)
Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP)
Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP)
Against
Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con)
Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)
Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab)
Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con)
Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green)
Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con)
Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con)
Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green)
Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab)
Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab)
Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con)
Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab)
Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con)
Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con)
Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con)
Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con)
Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD)
Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green)
Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con)
Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)
Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con)
Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con)
Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green)
Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab)
McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab)
Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab)
Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con)
O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab)
Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green)
Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab)
Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con)
Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green)
Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab)
Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab)
Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con)
White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con)
Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab)
Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con)
Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD)
The result of the division is: For 59, Against 59, Abstentions 0.
The vote is therefore tied. As is usual when the Parliament has not been able to reach a decision, I am obliged to exercise a casting vote. I will not make the decision for the Parliament; the established convention is to vote in favour of the status quo, because the chair is required to act impartially. I therefore cast my vote against the amendment.
Amendment 42 disagreed to.
Amendments 43 to 48 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.
Section 86C—Recovery of expenses of intervention
Amendments 49 to 58 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.
After section 87
Group 10 is on review of the act. Amendment 137 is the only amendment in the group.
I thank the minister for her constructive engagement on amendment 137 following stage 2. Amendment 137 creates a statutory post-legislative review of the act, to begin no later than 10 years after the commencement of sections 8, 39, 52 and 78. It requires the Scottish ministers to consult regulators of legal services, consumers of legal services and the Scottish Legal Complaints Commission as part of that review, and it leaves the door open for other individuals and organisations to be consulted, too. Following the raising of concerns at stage 2 about the length of the review period, I have agreed with the minister that 10 years is an appropriate length of time and that it should begin from the commencement of specific sections of the bill rather than royal assent.
Post-legislative scrutiny is important; however, in the case of the regulatory framework for legal services, it is essential. That point was made by the Competition and Markets Authority in its stage 3 briefing, which urged
“regular statutory review to assess whether”
the act
“is meeting the needs of consumers”.
Many of the issues that arise in the regulatory system have occurred because so much time has passed since the Solicitors (Scotland) Act 1980 was added to the statute book. The Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill is therefore long overdue. The Law Society has been campaigning for change for at least a decade.
Given that the bill has been so heavily amended, there is a strong case, too, for ensuring that it is operating as expected within what is a fragmented legislative landscape, and that it serves the interests of consumers.
Stakeholders are widely supportive of a post-legislative review, which, I hope, will give all parties involved an opportunity to take stock and recommend further changes in the public interest.
Regulatory issues must not get lost in the weeds for years to come, which is why I urge colleagues to support amendment 137.
I move amendment 137.
I am pleased to have worked with Tess White on her amendment 137, which will require the Scottish ministers to undertake a review of the principal changes to the regulation of legal services arising from the legislation. I am grateful to Ms White for taking on board my concerns, and I am content to support the amendment.
I invite Tess White to wind up and to press or withdraw amendment 137.
I have nothing further to add, other than that I am pleased to hear that the amendment is supported on a cross-party basis. I will press the amendment.
Amendment 137 agreed to.
After section 88
Group 11 is on interdicts. Amendment 59, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendment 113.
I call the minister to move amendment 59, and speak to both amendments in the group.
Amendments 59 and 113 respond to concerns raised by the Faculty of Advocates. The amendments put beyond doubt that it is competent for the civil remedy of interdict to be sought with a view to preventing the carrying out of an act that is subject to criminal law penalties under the Solicitors (Scotland) Act 1980 and the Legal Services (Scotland) Act 2010.
For example, an interdict could be sought to prevent a person from pretending to be a lawyer, a regulated legal services provider or a member of the Faculty of Advocates. The Government recognises that interdict could be an effective remedy in preventing the continuance of that kind of deceptive behaviour as a matter of urgency, and could be a useful tool for a regulator.
I ask members to support the amendments.
I move amendment 59.
As no other member has asked to speak, do you want to say anything by way of wind-up, minister?
No.
Amendment 59 agreed to.
Section 91—Interpretation
Amendment 138 not moved.
Schedule 1
Amendments 60 to 64 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.
Schedule 3
Amendments 65 to 67 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.
Group 12 is on “Complaints: Solicitors (Scotland) Act 1980”. Amendment 68, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 69 to 78, 78A, 79 to 82 and 107.
Amendment 75 replaces with a regulation-making power the Scottish ministers’ order-making power to increase the maximum amount that the SSDT can fine a solicitor in certain circumstances, which was inserted at stage 2. That reflects modern practice and is consistent with other ministerial regulation-making powers provided by the bill.
Amendment 82 restricts the SSDT from publishing any information that identifies or is likely to identify any person other than the solicitor against whom the complaint was made, unless it is considered to be in the public interest to do so and that person consents. That mirrors the approach taken in relation to the disclosure of information about complaints by the Scottish Legal Complaints Commission and relevant professional organisations, and it provides the SSDT with additional flexibility in relation to publishing information about cases.
The bill currently makes provision allowing the SSDT to take decisions and determinations relating to previous complaints into account when deciding whether a solicitor has been guilty of unsatisfactory professional conduct. The SSDT considers that that is inappropriate. Amendment 69 allows the SSDT to instead take into account decisions and determinations in respect of previous complaints when it is deciding whether the censure of a solicitor is to have effect for a specified period only and whether to direct the solicitor to pay a fine or undertake training or to order their practising certificate to be subject to certain conditions.
Amendment 74 makes a broadly equivalent amendment in respect of the powers of the SSDT on appeal.
Amendments 68, 70 to 73, 76, 77, 80 and 81 make minor changes to tidy up provisions following changes made at stage 2.
The bill amends the 1980 act to enable the Law Society to appeal to the Court of Session against decisions of the SSDT to dismiss a complaint without inquiry. Amendments 78, 79 and 107 move those provisions from schedule 4 to the 1980 act into a new section.
Presiding Officer, there is an error in amendment 78, which should refer to leaving out line 22 on page 149 of the bill, rather than line 23. With your agreement, I have lodged a manuscript amendment, amendment 78A, to correct that error.
I ask members to support the amendments in my name.
I move amendment 68.
Does the minister wish to add anything in winding up?
No, thank you, Presiding Officer.
Amendment 68 agreed to.
Amendments 69 to 77 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.
Amendment 78 moved—[Siobhian Brown].
Amendment 78A moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.
Amendment 78, as amended, agreed to.
Amendments 79 to 89 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.
Amendments 139 to 141 not moved.
Amendment 142 moved—[Tess White]—and agreed to.
Amendment 90 moved—[Paul O’Kane]—and agreed to.
17:15Amendment 91 moved—[Siobhian Brown].
The question is, that amendment 91 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members: No.
There will be a division. Members should cast their votes now.
The vote is closed.
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I would have voted no.
Thank you, Mr Smyth. We will ensure that that is recorded.
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I could not connect to the app. I would have voted yes.
Thank you, Ms Smith. We will ensure that that is recorded.
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I would have voted no.
Thank you, Ms Adamson. We will ensure that that is recorded.
For
Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con)
Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con)
Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con)
Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con)
Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con)
Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP)
Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con)
Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con)
Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con)
Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con)
Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con)
Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con)
Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con)
McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con)
Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con)
Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con)
White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con)
Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con)
Against
Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP)
Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)
Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP)
Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP)
Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)
Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab)
Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP)
Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP)
Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green)
Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP)
Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green)
Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab)
Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab)
Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP)
Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP)
Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP)
Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP)
Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)
Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab)
Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)
Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP)
FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP)
Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green)
Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP)
Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)
Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP)
Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP)
Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)
Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP)
MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP)
MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP)
Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green)
Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP)
Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Rona Mackay]
Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP)
Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind)
Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP)
McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn]
McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD)
McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP)
McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP)
McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP)
McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab)
Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab)
Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab)
Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP)
Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green)
Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab)
Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green)
Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab)
Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP)
Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP)
Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP)
Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab)
Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP)
Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP)
Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP)
Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP)
Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab)
Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP)
Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP)
The result of the division is: For 28, Against 87, Abstentions 0.
Amendment 91 disagreed to.
Group 13 is on rolls and registers. Amendment 92, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 94 to 97.
Amendment 92 will allow the Law Society to contact a solicitor who was required to complete training before being enrolled to ask whether they plan to complete the training, and, if they do not respond within eight weeks or if they fail to complete the training within six months of entering a training contract, the Law Society may remove the solicitor from the roll.
Section 12D of the Solicitors (Scotland) Act 1980 was amended at stage 2 to give registered European lawyers the right to appeal to the Scottish Solicitors Discipline Tribunal where the Law Society decides not to restore the lawyer to the register. Amendment 94 ensures that the provisions applying to appeals to the SSDT include appeals under section 12D(2A) of the 1980 act.
Amendments 95 and 96 correct terminologies to make it clear that the power of the SSDT or of the court is to “order the restoration of” the foreign lawyer’s name to the register rather than to carry out the restoration itself.
Amendment 97 will ensure that the SSDT has consistent powers to award expenses in relation to all matters that it deals with, including applications for restoration, rather than just complaints and appeals, as is currently provided for.
I ask members to support the amendments in my name.
I move amendment 92.
Does the minister have anything else to add in winding up?
No, thank you.
Amendment 92 agreed to.
Amendments 94 to 115 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.
That ends stage 3 consideration of amendments.
As members will be aware, I am required under standing orders to decide whether, in my view, any provision of a bill relates to a protected subject matter—that is, whether it modifies the electoral system and franchise for Scottish parliamentary elections. In my view, no provision of the Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill relates to a protected subject matter. Therefore, the bill does not require a supermajority to be passed at stage 3.
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