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Chamber and committees

Meeting of the Parliament

Meeting date: Thursday, June 17, 2010


Contents


Scottish Executive Question Time


Europe, External Affairs and Culture


Publishers



1. To ask the Scottish Executive what recent discussions it has had with representatives of Scottish publishers. (S3O-10930)

The Minister for Culture and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop)

I attended Publishing Scotland’s annual conference in February this year. The Minister for Enterprise, Energy and Tourism facilitated a discussion session for the Periodical Publishers Association on 4 May.

Scottish Government officials have held discussions with Scottish Enterprise and creative Scotland to investigate the possibility of holding an industry event on the future of publishing in Scotland.

Jamie McGrigor

Is the minister aware of the very real concerns of Scottish publishers about the Government’s on-going centralising book procurement policies, especially with regard to VisitScotland, Historic Scotland and the public and educational library sector? What action will the Government take to address those concerns and ensure that procurement includes small businesses and the local economy, and therefore does not lead to a loss of diversity of range and supply? It may otherwise appear to people that a Scottish National Party Government is creating a system that offers big English companies hard contracts and small Scottish businesses only bland words.

Fiona Hyslop

I refute that last comment. In tough times, there is an onus on all of us in national and local government to ensure that we get the best out of any contracts, but we are sensitive to the points that Jamie McGrigor makes with regard to local providers. In response to his first question, the current contract is not a Scottish Government contract; Scotland Excel is taking it forward.

There is currently no provision for local small Scottish publishers in 75 per cent of the business that is being tendered for, but Scotland Excel has told us that it will engage with publishers, and with small publishing companies in particular, with regard to the remaining 25 per cent of the contract. That part of the business, which involves specialist books, is worth £2 million, and small Scottish publishers can bid for it as they have done in the past.

As well as encouraging small Scottish publishers, will the procurement process that is used by local authorities and others give recognition to subject matter that specifically relates to Scottish culture?

Fiona Hyslop

The responsibility for that area lies with local authorities. However, ministers have relayed to them that, with regard to the curriculum, it is important that they take into consideration that the subject matter and content must reflect an understanding of Scotland and its many and diverse areas of interest.

In the discussions that Scotland Excel has confirmed will take place, it will discuss with publishers its engagement in the supply of specialist books not only by provider, but—as the member suggests—by content.


Commercial Television (Local News)



2. To ask the Scottish Executive what its position is on the provision of local news on commercial television. (S3O-10972)

The Minister for Culture and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop)

The Scottish Government believes that it is essential for viewers in Scotland to have a choice of quality Scottish news. I have already made that clear to Ed Vaizey, the United Kingdom Government Minister for Culture, Communications and Creative Industries.

Following the announcement last week that the new UK Government has decided not to implement proposals to pilot independently funded news consortia on channel 3, it is important that its alternative proposals are able to safeguard and enhance the news that viewers in Scotland receive. I am keen to work as constructively as possible with the new UK Government to ensure that its proposals for local television meet the needs of Scottish viewers.

Pauline McNeill

Does the minister agree that the decision by the Conservative-Liberal coalition to reverse the pilot for an independently funded news consortium will be a fatal blow to public service broadcasting in Scotland? Is she concerned about local news in Scotland for that reason? Is she concerned about the future prospects for STV?

The minister has said that she has already had discussions with her UK counterpart. Will she assure the Parliament today that she will continue to press and meet with the relevant ministers to ensure that there is an alternative solution for broadcasting in Scotland?

Fiona Hyslop

I was reassured during my discussion with Ed Vaizey that he was aware of the situation in Scotland, the need to address promptly any alternatives to IFNC and the need to bear in mind any consequences in Scotland. It is too early to say what the consequences of any proposals will be because we do not yet know what they are. Jeremy Hunt has commented:

“I want to carry on talking to those who submitted bids about ideas.”

I understand that a full media action plan will be published in the autumn. We will work with the UK Government to secure the best interests of Scotland.

I reiterate something that I have said to the chamber before about broadcasting. Scotland’s interests will be best served if we form a collective cross-party view on the interests and needs of Scottish broadcasting. I hope to have the opportunity to work with colleagues from across the chamber so that in the new context of the Conservative-Lib Dem UK Administration, we can make sure that we have strong local news as well as a plurality of news. Those are at the biggest risk in relation to what might happen, but as I said, we are in the early stages. In order to ensure that we know where we are going, discussions need to take place between the Scottish Government and the UK Government as well as in the Scottish Parliament.

Ted Brocklebank (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)

The minister will be aware of my party’s initiative on a new Scottish digital channel, subsequently taken up by Blair Jenkins’s Scottish Broadcasting Commission. Does she accept that such a channel could help to provide the plurality for the local TV news services that Pauline McNeill described? Would she and her Government still favour a digital channel if it were to be funded by paid advertising or sponsorship instead being a publicly funded channel under the model favoured by the SNP Government?

Fiona Hyslop

We have an opportunity to shape a digital channel for Scotland within the context of what I think the UK Government will propose. The cost model is essential. That is why Nicholas Shott, the head of UK investment banking at Lazard, is looking at the potential for commercially viable local television channels. It is important that the UK Government shares its costing and budgetary scenarios with us because, although the proposal painted might have opportunities for Scotland, as Pauline McNeill pointed out correctly, it might not offer the solution that best suits Scotland. We have to work with the UK Government to find out more about its costings. We should also continue to pursue a digital channel for Scotland. In the long run, that is certainly the best option for Scotland; in the shorter term, it might be an opportunity that we should grab with both hands if it is offered as part of the UK Government’s solution.


India



3. To ask the Scottish Government what action it is taking to encourage collaboration between Scotland and India. (S3O-11008)

The Minister for Culture and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop)

The Scottish Government recently published its India plan, which sets out the four key areas of trade and investment, education and science, tourism, and culture. We are working with our key partners, which include Scottish Development International and the Indian consul general, to deliver the plan’s objectives.

The First Minister will be in India for the Commonwealth games in October and will undertake a number of visits and engagements to support the India plan.

Will the minister expand on what cultural connections can be made between India and Scotland with a view to the next Commonwealth games, which will come here, and the surrounding cultural potential of those links?

Fiona Hyslop

There is enormous potential. I was pleased recently to witness preparation in Glasgow for the handover ceremony. The Scottish Chamber Orchestra recently toured India, supported by the Scottish Government. We sponsored the Calcutta book fair, at which Scotland was a key theme. In the future, film and television will be a particular focus. The second leg of an exchange is taking place to coincide with the Edinburgh international film festival. There are also fantastic opportunities through the memorandum of understanding and cultural heritage with West Bengal. Importantly, there will also be a great focus on Scotland at the handover of the Commonwealth games in October, right through to next year with the 150th anniversary of the birth of West Bengal’s national poet, Tagore, and the opportunity to celebrate domestically those relations and cultural collaborations.


Dance and Musical Theatre (Support for Young People)



4. To ask the Scottish Executive what action it is taking to support talented young people who wish to achieve excellence in dance or musical theatre. (S3O-10991)

The Minister for Culture and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop)

The Scottish Government supports young people aiming for excellence in dance or musical theatre through the work of the Scottish Arts Council and the national performing companies, and through support from the Scottish Further and Higher Education Funding Council to the Royal Scottish Academy of Music and Drama.

Funding for the national centres of excellence in dance and music is included in the local government settlement. The Scottish Arts Council provides funding for various programmes that provide opportunities for talented young dancers and young performance groups.

Mike Pringle

The minister will be well aware of the serious situation regarding residential capacity and funding at the Dance School of Scotland. When the halls of residence came under threat—for the end of the current year—it was feared that four pupils who study there but who live in my Edinburgh South constituency would face a long commute or the tough decision to leave. Thankfully, they have been given a reprieve for this year. However, the situation is set to reach crisis point later, with the University of Glasgow’s plans to sell the existing halls of residence possibly leading to the end of residential provision at the school and to the loss of its national status. Does the minister agree that it is vital that Scotland has a dedicated national centre of excellence for dance and musical theatre? Will she commit to working with Glasgow City Council and the school community to examine funding options to secure the future of the valuable residential provision at the school?

Fiona Hyslop

I understand that the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning’s officials are in contact with Glasgow City Council regarding the subject, and that they will continue those discussions. It is not the Scottish Government’s understanding that residential facilities will be withdrawn at the school. I understand that the University of Glasgow could offer to extend the lease for an additional year, if need be, if an alternative to Dalrymple hall cannot be found in the meantime.

John Scott (Ayr) (Con)

Given her roots, the minister will be aware that the Ayrshire Fiddle Orchestra undertook an extended tour of China last year, playing to full houses and standing ovations and performing for many thousands of people. It was effectively an ambassadorial role for the orchestra in promoting Ayrshire and Scotland. Given the value of that tour, is there a way for that type of cultural exchange to be better recognised and better supported by Government in future?

Fiona Hyslop

I am working with creative Scotland to identify opportunities to support more international collaboration and better co-ordination of what already happens. I, too, congratulate the Ayrshire Fiddle Orchestra. I have seen it perform on a number of occasions, and its members are fantastic ambassadors for Scotland. We would better serve the people of Scotland and international audiences, however, if there was better co-ordination of some of the international work that goes on.


Malawi (LGBT Citizens)

Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD)



5. To ask the Scottish Executive what discussions it has had with the Government of Malawi about the treatment of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transsexual citizens and what support it is giving to human rights and equality organisations working to tackle homophobia and transphobia in Malawi. (S3O-10994)

The Minister for Culture and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop)

During my visit in February, I raised in discussion with the Government of Malawi the concerns that had been expressed in Scotland about the general issue of human rights in relation to gay rights.

On 19 May, I wrote to the hon Etta Banda MP, Minister of Foreign Affairs, expressing my disappointment at the outcome of the court case regarding the two men who had been imprisoned in Malawi and who were subsequently pardoned. The Scottish Government’s co-operation agreement with the Government of Malawi identifies priority areas for development funding, including civil society and governance, and some of the projects that we are funding contribute to the strengthening of human rights. An example is Challenges Worldwide’s capacity building for justice project, which will build the capacity of a range of public sector and civil society organisations that are working in Malawi to promote the rule of law and access to justice. We will continue to work with Malawi in the context of strengthening human rights within civil society and governance systems.

Margaret Smith

I welcome the action that has been taken by the cabinet secretary following the arrest of the two gay men concerned in Malawi. I welcome the Government’s support for Malawi, given the obvious needs in the country and the historical links between our two countries. How will the Scottish Government go about re-examining its aid relationship with Malawi in future? What changes, if any, have been made to the existing aid arrangements, and what new processes will the Scottish Government undertake regarding aid donations to ensure that Scottish taxpayers’ money is targeted where it is needed in ways that support equality and human rights in Malawi?

Fiona Hyslop

Bids for projects by Scotland-based charities working in Malawi are subject in the first instance to independent evaluation, and to on-going rigorous and robust evaluation thereafter. We are confident that the resources that we are providing reach those in need. We do not provide money to the Malawian Government as such; it goes to Scottish non-governmental organisations working in the area.

Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)

In Malawi, as in much of Africa, issues around sexuality and gender identity are strongly contested in a way that this country has moved on from in recent generations. Therefore, does not the Government have a responsibility to recognise that there will be people who will violently oppose the progressive values of human rights and equality, and to be proactive in seeking out allies for those progressive values in an effort to increase its capacity to act as an advocate for human rights and equality in Malawi and other parts of Africa in the future?

Fiona Hyslop

I refer the member to my original answer, in which I mentioned some of the capacity-building, governance and human rights aspects of projects that we are already supporting.

As the member is no doubt aware, not that long ago there were people in this country who did not have the same views that he and I do on some of the issues in question, and there are still some people of whom that is true. We must be tolerant of other nations and countries and understand that progress on that journey may take longer elsewhere than it did here. We cannot impose a value system; we must help people to develop it themselves. However, I hear the points that the member makes.


European Union Accession Eight Countries (Cultural Links)



6. To ask the Scottish Government what plans it has to enhance the cultural links between Scotland and the EUA8 nations, from where many of the migrant workers who contribute to the Scottish economy and society come. (S3O-11011)

The Minister for Culture and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop)

Migrants from eastern Europe have made a fantastic contribution to Scotland’s economy and culture. Our links with the EUA8 countries of eastern Europe are strong and enduring, and the Scottish Government continues to develop closer relations that are based on mutual respect and shared interests.

Bill Kidd

My hope is that we in Scotland can benefit as much as possible from our migrant communities and that they can do the same from us. Are any specific links or bonds being developed with the Governments of the A8 nations of the EU, from which many members of our migrant communities come and where they maintain good family relations?

Fiona Hyslop

Yes. The links that are being developed are varied. I offer to write to the member to explain what they are. I recently discussed with the Slovenian ambassador to the United Kingdom the possibility of strengthening cultural and tourism links between Scotland and Slovenia on the back of the 2012 Olympiad. In addition, I stress that our relations with Poland are particularly strong, and a number of cultural events and exchanges are taking place that the Scottish Government is supporting through our expo fund.


Taiwan



7. To ask the Scottish Government what steps it is taking to develop relations with Taiwan. (S3O-10998)

The Minister for Culture and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop)

We have developed commercial links with Taiwan through Scottish Development International’s office in Taipei and its activities. In addition, next month VisitScotland will undertake a sales mission to Taiwan to promote Scotland as a tourist destination.

What further steps will the Government take to encourage engagement with Taiwan to increase trade, education and cultural links?

Fiona Hyslop

In the first part of this year, SDI has been involved in two major activities in Taiwan, in the renewables and electronics sectors. It led a delegation of Scottish companies at the offshore wind energy workshop, and earlier this month it accompanied three Scottish companies at opto Taiwan, which is one of the world’s largest international opto-electronics shows.

We would certainly alert our universities to the education opportunities that exist in Taiwan and, as far as cultural links are concerned, I am sure that the cross-party group in the Scottish Parliament on Taiwan, of which Brian Adam is a member, will help to advise the Government on what aspects we could pursue.

Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab)

I draw to the minister’s attention a letter that I received from Scotland’s Colleges that confirms that Scottish colleges have very limited engagement with Taiwan. Does she agree that the development of student recruitment opportunities in Taiwan should be explored further? Will she undertake to look into how the Government may assist Scotland’s Colleges in that regard?

Fiona Hyslop

I am sure that that is an issue that the Scottish Further and Higher Education Funding Council might want to look at. I remind the member that universities and colleges are independent organisations that will identify the areas in which they want to develop. It would be wrong for the Government to tell them where they should go. That said, the education fair that is about to commence is an example of the opportunities that exist for such institutions to showcase what Scotland has to offer.


Education and Lifelong Learning


Schools (Pupil Safety)



1. To ask the Scottish Executive what steps it is taking to ensure pupil safety in schools. (S3O-10947)

Regulations already place on education authorities a general duty, without prejudice to any other legal duty, to secure, as far as is practicable, the safety of pupils when they are under their charge.

Claire Baker

Is the cabinet secretary aware that about 140 playground supervisors in Fife are to lose their jobs, which will compromise the safety of pupils in schools such as Methilhill primary and community school, where the playground is also a public right of way? What action will he take to address parents’ concerns about pupil safety in the playground because of Fife Council’s decision?

Michael Russell

Fife Council has advised the Scottish Government that it is well aware of its responsibilities for playground supervision. I understand that, although the dedicated post of playground supervisor is being removed from the council’s establishment, playground supervision will not cease and, indeed, cannot cease under regulations. All headteachers are reviewing arrangements for deploying support staff in their schools. In that, as in all matters, they are expected to deploy resources with health and safety as the main priority.

Local authorities have a statutory duty of reasonable care for the safety of pupils who are under their charge. Local authorities must ensure that, in primary schools with a roll of 50 or more and in special needs schools, at least one adult supervises pupils when they are in the playground at break time. I repeat that Fife Council is aware of its statutory duty and is expected to make appropriate alternative arrangements to ensure pupil safety in the playground.


New Teachers (Employment)



2. To ask the Scottish Executive what action it will take to improve the employment prospects of newly qualified teachers. (S3O-10983)

The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Michael Russell)

The Scottish Government has taken several actions to support post-probation teachers into work. We made the difficult but necessary decision to reduce the intake of student teachers, which will free up more posts for newly qualified teachers. We created a scheme to allow local authorities to borrow up to £10 million to cover the up-front costs of early retirement and to free up jobs for newly qualified teachers. It is disappointing that only two councils have so far applied to participate in that scheme, but we all know that some councils—Fife Council, North Ayrshire Council, Argyll and Bute Council and others—are encouraging teachers to retire early and are managing that through existing resources.

We continue to work closely with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and local authorities to achieve better reconciliation between local and national teacher workforce planning with a view to re-establishing an appropriate balance between teacher supply and demand.

Karen Whitefield

Does the cabinet secretary share my concern about the growing casualisation of the newly qualified teaching workforce, as highlighted in the General Teaching Council for Scotland’s employment follow-up survey, which was published in May? That survey found that 26.5 per cent of newly qualified teachers depend on supply work and only 30 per cent have secured permanent posts. Does he agree that, although we will always need a small pool of supply teachers, an overreliance on supply teachers will undoubtedly have a detrimental effect on the quality of the learning and teaching experience in our schools?

Michael Russell

There is no growing casualisation of the teaching workforce. Such a phrase was first used and continues to be used by Labour and it is inaccurate. Of post-probation teachers, 86.5 per cent—an estimated 2,600—have found employment as a teacher in Scotland. That is an increase from 72.5 per cent in October 2009.

Job opportunities for teachers occur throughout the year. They did so this year and last year and they have always occurred in that way. The teacher vacancy survey shows that 354 vacancies were advertised on 19 February and the COSLA jobs portal shows that 280 teaching posts were being advertised on 1 June.

We are working hard to drive down teacher unemployment figures. Elements of the issue have always been difficult to deal with but, however serious the financial situation becomes, we will continue to work on teacher employment as a priority. I hope that good will across the chamber will support that activity.


Dyslexia (Early Identification)



3. To ask the Scottish Executive what measures it is taking to ensure the early identification of children and young people with dyslexia. (S3O-10938)

The Minister for Children and Early Years (Adam Ingram)

Good foundations for learning start in the early years, which is why the curriculum for excellence places literacy and numeracy at its heart and makes those skills every teacher’s responsibility. That means that all teachers must be alert to observe and respond to literacy difficulties such as dyslexia.

On 1 June, the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning launched the assessing dyslexia toolkit for teachers, which the Scottish Government funded and which was developed in partnership with Dyslexia Scotland. It aims to help all teachers to identify the signs of literacy difficulties and dyslexia early in a child’s school life, to ensure that the right support is put in place to enable every child to reach their potential.

Margaret Mitchell

What steps is the Scottish Government taking to ensure that all teachers are supported and trained in the use of that important toolkit? Given that continuous professional development is an important part of raising teachers’ awareness of dyslexia, is the minister concerned about the patchy provision of CPD dyslexia training for teachers across Scotland? For example, only 84 teachers in North Lanarkshire have attended training days in the past five calendar years, compared with 201 in East Ayrshire and 204 in South Lanarkshire over the same period. What can he do to improve those figures, to aid early identification?

Adam Ingram

The toolkit will help teachers to identify the signs of literacy difficulties and dyslexia. That will help schools more effectively to meet the needs of the pupils concerned and ensure that the right support is in place to enable them to reach their full potential. I repeat that, under the curriculum for excellence, literacy and numeracy skills are the responsibility of all teachers. I expect continuous professional development to reflect those priorities.


Higher Education (Financial Accountability)



4. To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will examine ways to make higher education establishments more accountable for their expenditure. (S3O-10955)

The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Michael Russell)

This is an important question. Given that less than half the sector’s income comes from the Scottish Further and Higher Education Funding Council, it is obvious that the arrangements that are in place for accountability should be proportionate and appropriate. We believe that current arrangements meet those tests. However, the chief executive of the funding council is ultimately accountable for ensuring that the institutions that it funds utilise those funds properly. As an overarching requirement, section 7 of the Further and Higher Education (Scotland) Act 2005 requires the council periodically—usually annually—to assess institutions’ compliance with the fundability criteria. The council does that by monitoring financial reports and forecasts and examining annual accounts.

George Foulkes

I am grateful to the minister for that helpful answer. Has he seen reports about the £4 million that the University of St Andrews has spent on a new luxury residence for its principal and about the fact that almost all the principals of Scottish universities earn substantially more than the Prime Minister? In view of the fact that most of the funding of higher and further education comes from the Scottish Government and the United Kingdom research councils, does he agree that there is a need for much greater transparency and accountability? Will he consider what action might be appropriate to achieve that?

Michael Russell

I am inured to people earning more than I do; I am sure that Lord Foulkes is inured to people earning even more than a member of the House of Lords does. However, he makes a crucial point, although we should not exaggerate the issue. Universities, in particular, are autonomous institutions. In some cases, the majority of their funding does not come from the taxpayer, although in others it does. The key issue is transparency. I agree with Lord Foulkes that transparency is an absolute and should not be gainsaid by any of the universities’ actions. At this time, when there is very substantial pressure on public funds, all parts of the public sector—including those that are not totally within the public sector—need to be aware that they are being watched and that the Scottish public is judging how they spend their funds. As a Government minister, I am very aware of that. I am sure that people in other parts of the sector are aware of it and hope that all will live by that rule.


“Go Outdoors!”



5. To ask the Scottish Executive what assessment ministers have made of the Commissioner for Children and Young People in Scotland’s and the Scottish institute for residential child care’s “Go Outdoors!” guidelines. (S3O-10932)

The Minister for Children and Early Years (Adam Ingram)

I welcome and have endorsed the recent publication by Scotland’s Commissioner for Children and Young People and the Scottish institute for residential child care of the “Go Outdoors!” guidance and good practice on encouraging outdoor activities in residential child care.

In what has been described as a generation of cotton-wool kids, what plans does the Scottish Government have to support staff who fear that they will be blamed or even sued if something goes wrong during an outdoor educational activity?

Adam Ingram

That is one of the key questions that need to be addressed. Scotland’s Commissioner for Children and Young People and SIRCC have done so for residential child care, which is particularly risk averse when it comes to giving children and young people the opportunity to play outdoors. It is crucial that we try to roll back the risk-averse culture that we have developed in this country over the past 20 to 30 years. The member should be encouraged by the number of initiatives that we are taking as a Government to address the issue. Most notably, I visited various parts of the country this week to see projects in our go play initiative, which encourages free play activities using the outdoors and tries to build community spirit and encourage community development, which may be what has eroded over the past 20 or 30 years, causing the fear for children to grow within society.

Robert Brown is not present to ask question 6. I refer members again to the Presiding Officer’s strictures on members who lodge questions but do not show up in the chamber to ask them. That shows disrespect to all of us in the Parliament.


School Building Programme



7. To ask the Scottish Government how the school building programme aims to maximise the number of schools benefiting from improved facilities. (S3O-10935)

The Minister for Skills and Lifelong Learning (Keith Brown)

The Scottish Futures Trust is managing Scotland’s schools for the future on our behalf. It will bring extensive expertise to bear to ensure that efficiencies are realised through authorities working together to avoid unnecessary duplication of effort and to maximise the number of schools across Scotland benefiting from improved facilities while delivering value for money for our investment.

Derek Brownlee

The Scottish Futures Trust has made some pretty impressive claims about the number of schools that it will be able to fund through its funding streams, based on driving down procurement costs. Is there scope to reduce the cost of procurement of schools further without negatively impacting on the educational experience provided within them? How many more schools could have been built in the past under the previous school building programme if construction costs similar to the ones that the SFT seems to be confident that it can deliver had been adhered to?

Keith Brown

The second question is quite speculative, so I will have to take some time to come back to the member with the answer, which I am sure will take a fair bit of working out. However, he is right to point out that the SFT has identified that savings can be made by authorities working together. I know from my own experience that small councils found it extremely difficult and expensive to put together private finance initiative projects, because they had to take on all the paraphernalia of consultancy fees and devote large amounts of their senior officers’ time to them. They were often replicating work that was being done in a neighbouring authority. Having authorities work together is one way in which the SFT can bear down on costs. By centralising some of the expertise that it has, not least in relation to architecture and the design of schools, it can also increase both the efficiency with which we build the schools and the number of schools that we can build.

The other point that Derek Brownlee rightly raises relates to construction costs. I think that some of the confusion over costs has arisen because we have announced our programme of school building at 2009 prices, even though what councils receive will be at the price they have to pay—obviously, the costs will be inflated over the years of the construction. The SFT has identified a reduction in construction costs of perhaps 20 per cent because of the recession. It is right that we take the maximum benefits of low construction costs while they are there.

I will get back to Derek Brownlee on his second question in due course.

Is it the case that the Scottish Executive is funding schools only on a like-for-like basis and that any improvement to the facilities must be funded by the local authorities themselves and not by the Scottish Executive?

Keith Brown

In essence, what the member says is true. We have said to each council that has presented a proposal for either a secondary or a primary school that we will replace the school—it is not exactly like for like as it takes into account the development of the school roll over time—but we will not fund as part of that programme the additional costs of, for example, new community or leisure facilities. We are taking that approach because it maximises the number of schools and the number of pupils we can benefit throughout Scotland. We have taken more than 100,000 pupils out of sub-standard schools already and aim to do much more than that in due course.

One of the constraints that we face is the legacy of previous private finance initiative/public-private partnership costs, £60 million of which was unfunded, which has created a legacy cost for individual councils. As Lord Myners said,

“There is nothing progressive about a Government who consistently spend more than they can raise in taxation, and certainly nothing progressive that endows generations to come with the liabilities incurred by the current generation.”—[Official Report, House of Lords, 8 June 2010; Vol 719, c 625.]

Jeremy Purvis (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD)

Is the minister aware that the three PPP secondary schools in the Borders, which he seems to criticise, offer accommodation in excess of that to which the Scottish Futures Trust would contribute? Is it not the case that the generation of schools that were constructed before the Scottish Futures Trust’s one-size-fits-all approach will be better and offer better facilities for our young people than those with a design prescribed centrally by one agency for all schools in Scotland that are funded through the programme?

Keith Brown

Perhaps the key fact to bear in mind is that we are spending more—around £700 million per year on average—than the previous Administration did. Also, we are bringing schools to fruition more quickly than the previous Administration did. It took that Administration six and a half years, I think, even if we give it the first two years of the Labour Government in the United Kingdom.

We must try to maximise the number of pupils who can benefit from the programme. I do not criticise the PFI/PPP schools themselves, but I criticise the funding method, which has left us a legacy under which, before they spend 1p on a teacher or any school materials, councils spend 5p in every £1 towards PFI/PPP costs. We cannot simply allow that figure to rise over the next few years if we are not going to damage our children’s education, so it is right that we maximise the value for money that we can get for the programme, which means trying to get as many pupils as possible out of poor conditions.


New Primary Schools (East Dunbartonshire Council)



8. To ask the Scottish Executive what discussions it has had with representatives of East Dunbartonshire Council regarding capital provision to build new primary schools. (S3O-10984)

The Minister for Skills and Lifelong Learning (Keith Brown)

The Scottish Government has had no discussions with representatives of East Dunbartonshire Council specifically regarding capital provision to build new primary schools. The Scottish Futures Trust is in continuing discussions with the council regarding the replacement of Lairdsland primary school, which will receive funding from the Government under our Scotland’s schools for the future programme.

David Whitton

As the minister mentioned, the Government had already intimated to Lairdsland primary school—as it happens, the one that my children went to—that it would be given £4 million towards the construction of the new school. However, earlier this month, a new funding package was announced and, instead of £4 million, the council is now being offered only £2.4 million because of the new formula that the SFT has drawn up based on the number of pupils and an allocation of space per pupil. The council has to make £8 million of cuts to its budget next year and £2.5 million does not cover a third of the new school’s cost. How does the minister expect it to fund the badly needed new Lairdsland school?

Keith Brown

The funding that has been agreed with the SFT and the council is based on a base cost of £2,350 per square metre, which has been derived from a review of current construction costs. We are confident that that covers the costs of the replacement of the existing school.

It may be that, as in some other cases, there has been some confusion about additional facilities, although it has always been made clear that we would not fund those. There is a great deal of discretion in the SFT programme if the council wants to provide further leisure facilities, libraries or community facilities, and the cabinet secretary has asked the SFT to be flexible in applying that discretion.

The costing must be fair because we must be fair to councils throughout Scotland. It is adequate to provide for the funding of the new school. The cost of the new school is comparable with the amount spent per square metre of school space in previous PFI/PPP schemes, so I am confident that East Dunbartonshire Council will be able to provide the facility.

There is no question but that we live in straitened times. The former Chief Secretary to the Treasury said that there is no money left, but we have money left. We put money aside for the school building programme and it will ensure a new school for East Dunbartonshire Council.


Scots Language Resources (Curriculum for Excellence)



9. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will support the provision of resources in the Scots language as part of the curriculum for excellence. (S3O-11005)

The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Michael Russell)

Aye, we will. The Scottish Government actively promotes the teaching and learning of Scots in the curriculum. The curriculum for excellence guidance offers flexibility to teachers to design inspiring and stimulating material to raise the profile of Scots in the curriculum. Learning and Teaching Scotland provides and signposts a wide range of resources to support high-quality learning and teaching in and through Scots.

Linda Fabiani

The cabinet secretary will be aware of the good work that the cross-party group on the Scots language has carried out over the years. It has an education sub-committee, which includes education professionals. Will the group’s views be taken into account on which parts of the curriculum would be of best use for the Scots language and which organisations would be best placed to help in that provision?

Michael Russell

I am aware of the sub-committee’s good work. I was unable, alas, to meet the sub-committee when I was last scheduled to do so because of a most regrettable clash of parliamentary business. I think that an important contribution is being made by the individuals involved, whom I am encouraging to talk to Learning and Teaching Scotland and to a range of other providers. I personally will have conversations with one or two of those involved shortly. I believe that everyone should work together to make this happen. Scots has an important place in the curriculum and should be taken forward as one of the issues that broadens and deepens Scottish education.